 All right, we'll get started. Good morning. My name is Nikki Acosta. This is a digital transformation discussion. I've been fortunate enough to be involved in OpenStack since the early days back when I worked at Rackspace. Then I left Rackspace to work for a fantastic startup called MetaCloud that was acquired by Cisco. And I currently serve as an evangelist for the Cisco Cloud stuff and host a podcast called Cloud Unfiltered. And with me today are some amazing panelists. I'll let y'all introduce yourselves. Rafi. Hi, everyone, I'm Rafi Cardian. I was CTO of MetaCloud. So I've been with Cisco since 2014. But before that, MetaCloud was founded in 2011. So actually the first summit we attended was Boston in 2011. So this is sort of full circle for us. Nice. I'm Al Sadoski. I work for 451 Research, I responsibility for our infrastructure services channels. I have been covering OpenStack since the Grizzly release based in our New York office. And I'm Thomas Cameron. I'm a digital transformation strategist with Red Hat. I've been with company for about 12 years. Just went to the dark side, moved into engineering. Previous to that I was field services chief architect. So I'm a technical guy and now I'm getting to play with strategy, which is a pretty cool stretch. So thank you all for coming, by the way. I know it's the last day, first session. So thank you for being here. We will take some questions here in a bit. So if you have a burning question, there are microphones on either side and feel free to walk up and ask a question if you have one. So let's get started. We were going through some kind of interesting stats this morning and talking about what we wanted to talk about. And there's so many cool things that we could talk about. But let's start with just digital disruption in general. Between 1955 and 2015, of the Fortune 500 firms, pretty much all of them are con. There's 12% that remain. The lifespan currently in the S&P 500 is 17 years. It used to be 61 years. But do you expect that this is only going to accelerate or are we seeing kind of the days of enterprises numbered at this point because of digital transformation? It's certainly accelerating. I think that you're seeing a lot of consolidation for one thing, a lot of the Fortune 500 companies that have been absorbed by other ones. But yes, I think with the rate of change and innovation that digital is enabling, yeah. I mean, you're seeing the waters being disrupted by predators coming up from the bottom that you didn't even know about. And all of a sudden, boom, they're in charge and they're the apex. And it's an incredible time to be in tech because of those changes. Just think about what took IBM over 100 years to build a market cap. Amazon did it in 10 years. It's the agility, the customer intelligence. It's the technology basically that enabled all these disruptors to displace these legacy businesses and it's gonna happen in every single vertical. And there's examples of every vertical. Yeah, over 20 years in the industry, I think probably the last five have been the most transformative of the period that certainly I have been privy and in the technology space. I think we'll continue to see the disruption occurring but it'll level off. We still have not seen, I would say, the complete fallout as a result of, say, the transformation to cloud and mobile. Those two spaces alone are gonna continue to push change along in the industry for, I would say, at least the next five to 10 years before it tapers off. So a lot more of those enterprises are going to fallout, especially those that cannot adapt fast enough. And you were involved early, Rafi, because you worked for Ticketmaster. Yep. What was that like? So it's interesting, because thinking back to the Ticketmaster problem set of surge traffic and a lot of people don't think about Ticketmaster to say, wow, that's an interesting company. Well, at the time where many of us were there, we were dealing with one of the most difficult problems on the internet, which is where you go from no traffic to unexpected, unpredictable amounts of traffic where any DDoS detection appliance is gonna say, oh, you're being DDoS, not really. That's our standard traffic flow. So even that has changed as a result of technology over the last couple of years because if you think about it, now you can burst into the cloud as you need to, whereas that option did not exist when we were there in early 2000s. Well, and I think if you look at examples like Ticketmaster as these are the right ways to do digital transformation, the road is also certainly littered with cautionary tales. Look at the Codex of the world, right? I mean, they were a powerhouse in photography, but they ignored the change to digital and they ignored what people were doing with, no, I don't wanna have a physical role of film and at their peril. Burying your head in the sand is kind of, you're doomed. No, no, we've got the best buggy whips in the world. Yeah. You had an interesting quote from the Patent Office in a presentation you gave yesterday. What was that quote? Yep, so everything that was going to be invented has already been invented. That was the US Patent Office Commissioner in 1899. Right, right. And I think he was slightly off on that one. And I think Apple has over 13,000 at company, didn't exist for 70, 80 years since then, so. Wait, so we're assuming here, and we can all agree that cloud is the foundation for digital transformation at this point. I wouldn't say it's just cloud. I would say mobile is playing a huge part in this. You're seeing more and more transition, they're focused to mobile. So, I mean, having basically a computer that would have been a supercomputer 20 years ago in your pocket is pretty transformative on its own. Yeah, the guy from Digital Equipment Corp in 77 said nobody's going to need a computer in their house. Another short-sighted decision from the founder of a company that basically doesn't exist anymore. But yeah, I worry because I am a cloud evangelist. Very similar to what you do. But the reality is cloud is almost like the new, for lack of a better explanation, the new hardware platform, right? There were years where Cisco servers were the hot new thing and they were awesome and everyone was rolling out Cisco. And then there were years that Dell was killing it. And then there were years that Compact back in the day. And now we're rolling our infrastructure out on cloud. So I don't know that we want to say, oh yeah, cloud is the big differentiator. I think it's the latest tooling that enables mobile, that enables analytics. You cannot discount what's going on with AI, machine learning, right? Looking at trends, looking at how consumers, how our customers are changing their buying patterns and reacting to that in such a way that you don't become Kodak and you don't become, you know, I'm protecting my buggy whip business, you know. But cloud I think needs to be unpacked a little bit because there's what people think of cloud being the hyperscale guys. But there's also plenty of interest and adoption of hosted private cloud. And even some on premise private cloud, but probably that's kind of going away. So I think that kind of needs to be thought of when you talk about that because not everything's just going to the hyperscalers. We think it's going to be a $20 billion business in a couple of years, half of which is AWS, but that's the one-sixth the size of hosting in comparison over time in the same time period. So people still like to hug their servers, but they prefer to be grounded in private cloud because they want to protect the data. They have regulatory issues. So cloud is a general thing that is enabling everybody, but it's across a number of different things. Absolutely, absolutely. While we're on the cloud topic too, I won't say which of you panelists told me this, but one of you told me that, frankly, OpenStack is a box of razors. Another one of you has commented potentially about the longevity of OpenStack in general, given the traction of public cloud and the consistent rollout and speed, a rollout of new features on there. So where does OpenStack fit into this? I'm the independent observer here as an analyst firm. So I've been to every summit since Grizzly and I would say that it's evolved from technical people showing up to a lot more marketing people and suits. There's more money to be made. We have something called the OpenStack Market Monitor, and when we first launched it, there was like 40-something companies that we were getting bottoms up estimates for. Now we have over 80 that are in there. And we expect by 2020 it's gonna be a $5.7 billion business, but that's just services and distributions and IT services and training. It doesn't include the hardware that comes with it. It doesn't include software-defined network plugins. It's growing and there's great examples from every vertical now that are doing OpenStack in some meaningful way. The Fortune One company on the globe has bet their e-commerce platform on OpenStack, for example, for Walmart. So box of razors, I think it's fair. Legos, I say Legos. So here's the key, though. Part of why I think it's gotten that reputation is because of how many organizations went off to do OpenStack on their own. So what you ended up with is a sustained engineering investment, or not, abandonment of the clouds that were built, and then you basically ended up with a snowflake that someone else had to come in and sort out. We see this time and time again. So I think what the vendors in this space, and obviously we are one of them, what help to do is to mitigate that and navigate it such that you're not cornering yourself, number one, from a sustainability standpoint, but also that you're not making decisions and using parts of OpenStack that might not be as robust as others. So there's certainly truth to it, and there's a lot of war stories out there of failed OpenStack deployments, just as a result, again, of what I described. Now, I do think we're also in a trough of disillusionment at this point with OpenStack. For a while, it was overhyped, and now we're kind of going the opposite direction. There's a little bit of pulling back, but what's been happening over the last, I would say, year is really the consolidation that many of us expected would occur before it levels off. So unless you believe that there will be no infrastructure on-premise for any company, I think OpenStack will have a place. It'll be a more focused place than what it's been. I would say the last two years, with BigTent and all the other projects having come in and under the OpenStack brand. Yeah, I was actually the one she was looking at when she said that, because I said that the other day, because there have been so many experiences to your point where folks have gone, all right, we're gonna OpenStack all the things, and you saw the hype cycle of OpenStack for everything, and it's gonna handle everything, and then people would reach in and it would be a big bag of razor blades. I think that it's been really fascinating seeing this year especially at OpenStack Summit, from that sort of crazy, almost giddy excitement about it from even a year ago, that people are looking at it and going, okay, now that the hype has settled a little bit, here are the places where it absolutely makes sense. There are places where it still doesn't. There are those organizations which are going to bypass internal private cloud and go straight to public, and then there are places, there are organizations which I think maybe had unrealistic expectations of OpenStack that, oh, this is gonna be a cheap virtualization platform. Well, yeah. That's true, absolutely. Oh yeah, there are so many customers I spoke to that you could hear the questions, and after three or four questions, you're like, let me just stop you. You're looking for a cheap version of VMware, right? And they'd sheepishly go, oh yeah, and this is not probably the best fit for something like that. But the maturation of the attitudes towards OpenStack has been really refreshing, I think, this year, and it almost feels like people are going, okay, I'm over the giddiness, now it's time to roll up sleeves and actually really start putting rubber to the road, and it's fascinating, and I think it's, for me anyway, more exciting than all of the hand-waving that we saw in years past. And 451 does a ton of research on this. Yesterday you were talking about sort of why CloudStack is not what we're talking about, and it was because of the creation of the foundation and because of how the foundation marketed to OpenStack. Like had that not happened, we may not be sitting here, but what does your research say in terms of how people are choosing to consume OpenStack at this point? Right, so we have that voice of the enterprise, so 30,000, 40,000 IT decision-makers around the globe, and we ask them a number of survey questions and increasingly asking about OpenStack, and there's definitely interest. Mindshare, wallet share still is not there, but what's interesting is a lot of people try it themselves, as you were saying, Rafi, and fail and say I'm running back to my proprietary platform, and then there's others who say, you know what, we tried it, but now we're doing meaningful workloads and we want support and indemnity and things like that. The number one choice is a distro, and then the next is us going to a service provider to just consume it as private or public cloud, and DIY is a lot farther back in the pack, and it's usually gonna be a company that has a big IT organization. The more nimble shops that are disrupting don't have giant IT organizations that are working on keeping the lights on, on code, they're working on how we take this customer data and monetize it and beat our competition. I would add to the, I mean, to sort of go off of that as well in the VMware commentary. When you start with the premise that you're looking for a cheap VMware, not only are you starting by building the infrastructure probably incorrectly, but you're also starting by putting the wrong workloads on OpenStack. So when you start asking for functionality that is very VMware centric, you're already down the path of probably not using the right tool for the job, and that's, I think that goes to the point about using OpenStack for everything versus the much more pragmatic view that's emerging now. For free software, though, it can be more expensive than you think. Oh yeah, we always talk at Red Hat about how free software is free like a puppy, right? It may not cost you anything to acquire, but the care and feeding and maintenance and all that kind of good stuff, it can be a backbreaker. Damn dogs. Love them. So as we're kind of thinking about through this topic, there was an interesting report that came out from DigiSkills, and it said that, this is a recent report from a couple months ago, actually on the Red Hat site, it said that under a quarter of organizations are digitally literate. And I think they wanted to talk about this in the context of culture and people change. Where are we falling short in digital disruption with the cultural aspect? It seems like there's a lot of people that are eager to throw technology at problems, but how long can we go without getting people up-skilled? You're, oh, I'm sorry. I was just gonna say, going back to that, like the voice of the enterprise data, just tangible, quantifiable data, it's not IT. It's non-IT issues that are preventing people from moving forward. It's the org structure, it's skills. It's just prioritizing the new stuff versus keeping the lights on on the old stuff. It's not because containers or virtualization or all these other texts don't work. They're not organizationally set up to do it. Yeah, and if you look at every example, and I don't usually use absolutes, but I think it's true that every example of successful digital transformation has been led by strong executive leadership and buy-in. And this is gonna sound really harsh, but if your CIO is still having his admin print up his emails so he can review them, look for a new job. Because if executive leadership is not bought in 100% and understanding and capable of actually embracing transformation and digital technologies. What if he's using a BlackBerry? You'll say with that? Run screaming in the other direction. Now, I mean, seriously though, you have to have buy-in from the top levels and they have to really grok what they're talking about in changing the way that they do business and digitalization. And if they're not, man, I've talked to way more CIOs than I care to admit who I've looked at them and looked at the way that they're talking about technology and I'm like, I'll be back in two to three years when you have either retired or, I won't be back because y'all are out of business. The other aspect too is just employee retention and we've seen it with a number of customers that they implement a successful cloud, it's going great and all of a sudden the person tasked with leading the charge gets hired away by another company. So I think there's also kind of an aspect of wanting to make sure that if you're providing these types of services that you're keeping your key people on board, which is increasingly hard to do given the lack of expertise in the industry as a whole. Yeah, I mean the excitement of embracing a new technology can sometimes draw away from what you're gonna need to sustain that. And again, that comes back to what we've seen in OpenStack. A lot of organizations built up strong OpenStack teams and then folks moved on where the projects were defunded. So it's really looking at the problem set holistically from a sustainability standpoint, correct workload, correct usage and correct architecture. Who should be leading the charge for digital transformation? People want to see the CIO, I had a podcast guest recently, Tim Crawford, who said, man, y'all need to stop targeting the CIO. You guys are targeting the wrong people with this. Who is it, who should be the people that folks are marketing to and talking to and building solutions for? Well I think the CIO is going to be that change agent, but to use a sports analogy, I think that the CIO probably needs to be more like the quarterback. He needs to rely on marketing leadership. He needs to rely on folks who are dealing with B2B logistics for inventory control. He needs to rely on field folks who can say, this is getting in the way of us generating revenue because you have to have input from all of those areas. You have to have input from all across your enterprise to do the exposure of new lines of business, new revenue streams, things like that. If you count on the CIO himself, you're probably gonna have a bad day, but if that CIO can bring in those other folks and say, what's stopping us? What's making your life difficult? Now let's figure out the technology to solve that problem. I think then you're gonna be successful, but it's got to be across the entire executive leadership team. I spoke to an IT director from a pretty significant airline and his CIO came back from a golf outing with an IT vendor and he said, we need an open stack. And his team had to go implement something, no metrics, they didn't know what they were doing was meeting the business, but they needed it. I think what IT vendors going forward who they're marketing to are developers. I think it's the developers up that are gonna start making the changes within IT groups. You get them to buy into your tools and your software and they bring it up through the organization. I completely agree, at the same time it's also been a challenge because the IT organizations still own those budgets, especially for on-premise. I would also say though, that it is the developers that are driving it, but part of it is going to be like you said, the quarterback of the organization sort of recognizing this and shifting some of those budgets and empowering those development organizations to be able to make the correct infrastructure and architectural decisions to enable their agility. This is one of the things that I struggle with is that the things that need to be digitally transformed are usually business things. It's again those barriers to doing new revenue streams and things like that. And there are not a whole lot of companies out there who can go to the paint company that we talked about earlier and say, oh well your paint business needs to change these aspects of selling paint. Because I don't know about paint sales, I'm not the right guy for that. So there's so much of what needs to happen to do digital transformation that's business process that's again, why you need that quarterback. But yes, absolutely, I mean we definitely want to make the developers feel like oh yes, open source is 100% the best way to go so that they'll use Red Hat or any open source company. But the challenge is, that's a product. That's a product discussion. By the time you have that product discussion, there's been strategy that's been defined by executive management that we weren't really involved in. And I don't know how to be a part of that conversation. Because those are happening behind closed doors with the CIO huddled with the other folks going, how do we fix this, how do we. So it's a big challenge. What industries are you think are most right? And what is the output of digital transformation in regards to decades old industries? You were talking about one earlier, is it just Khan Academy, tell us about that. To answer your question about which verticals, I think all are right for disruption. I think there's examples in all of them. But in the case of education, you have Coursera and Khan Academy who are basically doing online what traditionally was physical books and physical buildings and all is now just, you're able to reach a global audience where before you reached a neighborhood audience. And knowledge is a lot less expensive than it used to be. I'm convinced that there's nothing I can't do in my house that isn't on YouTube at this point. Yeah, yeah. I've wired fans and done other things that are disgusting because I saw a video on YouTube and I was like, I'm not paying someone to do this. I'm gonna do it myself. Just the amount of knowledge sort of on the internet and what that's doing, I mean is there a place for universities? You think in the near distant future, the later on down the line, are universities gonna be around? I hope not, because I got two kids that aren't in college yet. And I'm not sure the way the costs are going. Yeah, I mean that's a really valid point. You're seeing a lot of push to specialized or even vocational education rather than, okay, go do the diploma mill thing and get your four years and show that you've got the stick-to-itiveness. There's a lot of push to, no, look, here's a bunch of information about coding. Here's a bunch of information about data management. Here's how to weld. Here's how to do pipe fitting where you go and you get the specialty knowledge that you need so that you can go and start being productive a lot sooner. So I think universities will always be around, but I think the format will change. I think that the availability will change. You see even because of Khan Academy and because of Coursera and other entities like that, you see Ivy League schools who are making their courses available for free, for credit online now that all you have to do is have a browser and the stick-to-itiveness to get an education just through the net. No question, it's gonna have to change. I mean, I see it even I have young kids and I see things like library trips and I'm thinking how relevant is this, right? Did you walk by the Boston Library, by the way? It's computers everywhere, it's crazy. Yes, absolutely. I think the most important thing out of the universities is that they're structured and they teach you how to learn and how to obtain information, but the content and material is gonna be obsolete far too quickly to maintain the current sort of course structure, so they'll be forced to change over the years too. In fact, they should be changing now, otherwise we're going to be producing folks in the work field, especially in technology that are coming into the market with obsolete information. Antiquated, yeah. So, any questions, by the way? Oh, we got a question, run to the mic. Hi, Bill Mew, I'm an evangelist like you guys and we just happened to be on Red Hat, OpenStack and Cisco hardware, so we're amongst friends here. You started off talking about the Fortune 500 and it's not long ago that the Fortune 500 was dominated by large conglomerates and then conglomerates became a really bad word. We're now seeing an era where there's an e-tailer that is fairly big in cloud and it's got devices and it's got television programs. We've got an OS company that's pretty big in cloud and it's starting to produce devices. We've got a search engine company that's doing a few other things as well, including cars, believe it or not. Are we seeing a new age of the conglomerate or are specialists still the answer or where do we see the future being? Is it conglomerates, specialists or communities? That's deep, yeah. So, I think that if you look at, for instance, there's a search engine company out there that has built a lot of hardware that is dipped into hardware, but look at how many other things that they've dipped into which were not successful and they went, you know what? This isn't successful, SNP, it's dead. I think that's really admirable and I think that technology enables that sort of almost savage, like it's gonna be successful or we're gonna put a bullet in it and we're gonna know within 18 to 24 months. So, I think that the upside is you're seeing some amazing capabilities when you pair that search engine or actually not even search engine, that's not fair, that knowledge management with, you know, the devices that I can carry in my pocket that give me the powers of supercomputers. I think the upside is, holy cow, look at what we've got available to us, like what knowledge we have available to us. I think that the downside is, holy cow, look at what knowledge they have on us. It's all about the data, they want the data. Yeah, remember that if you're not paying, you're not the customer, you're the product. Yeah, I'd say a large part of that also comes back to those organizations that we're talking about are the ones that have transformed or have cultures of technical dominance, they're generally ahead of the market so they're able to embrace and jump into segments and able to disrupt them by virtue of their technical prowess. I still think they'll be specialists as more of the industry evolves. But the main reason you're seeing a handful of companies dominate is the same reason why you're seeing Amazon be so dominant in public cloud. They are just very far ahead in terms of the cultural aspect of it and the proliferation of that culture throughout their entire organization. Speaking of conglomerates and innovation, Jack Ma had an interesting quote, he had a couple of interesting quotes, and he said, in 30 years, the best CEO could be a robot. What do you think about that? I don't agree. I think that the best CEO will use the abilities of AI and machine learning, however you wanna phrase it, decision-making. I think that the best CEOs will be armed with the capabilities of those. But I hope, and this may be naive, but I hope we never lose that human sort of, the ability to do all the crazy decision-making and sometimes just that gut feeling, right? Sometimes CEOs will look at a trend and go, my gut tells me we need to go this way and they turn out to be right. I hope not. We've seen a computer beat a guy on Jeopardy. They had a computer beat all the best go players and use moves that humans never even thought of. So perhaps the idea of using that to help form strategies but tempered by a person otherwise you have the CEO of McDonald's be a computer, they might be serving silicon instead of french fries, because computers don't eat french fries, they like metal. But so you need to be able to temper it but hey, they think a lot different than humans and I'm sure they'll use it for strategy and business decisions but I'm not sure they'll run. He makes the claim that they're more rational, that computer's more rational than human beings. I don't disagree with that but again, look at the- Is it rationality emotional though? Well, look at the business leaders that we think of. When you think holy cow, what a brilliant leader. They weren't necessarily rational. Look at jobs, he was very emotional in a lot of ways and he used that emotion and he used that gut feeling, no that's a bad design choice or yes this is a good one to be really, really dominant in their space. I don't know if a computer can do that. It's a tool. I don't think there's a situation where that role will be replaced by a computer. So you can disagree with Jack Ma on that but here's another quote from Jack Ma that I thought was pretty great. He said, in 10 or 20 years, people will work less than four hours a day, maybe three days a week but until then the world's gonna experience more pain than happiness. Well in this one I hope that he's right because I can see that but I don't know, I don't know. I certainly, I've read articles in a similar vein that say that as people get older, they become less effective in a 40 hour work week. Like as folks get older, they have their insights and maybe it makes sense to drop to a 32 and then a 24 and then whatever. So certainly I would love to see that because I'm not getting any younger but I don't know. I think that raises a lot of questions that are totally outside of tech. Okay, if you're only working three hours a day, like what does a compensation plan look like? Things that are totally outside of the scope of this discussion. I think there's zero chance of that. Realistically if you look at what you can achieve today. You might be on that quote next to the patent office guy based on that but hopefully not. Well here's the thing, as we've become more efficient in a variety of different ways as people, right? As our tools get better, our ability to be productive gets better and becomes more efficient. Have we worked less? Think about how much we can achieve today in an eight hour window versus what we could have achieved 20 years ago. It's incomparable but we're still all working the same amount of time. So we will find new ways to apply our productivity. So no champagne and yoga with my friends. I don't know that we're working the same amount of time. I mean you guys all have the ability to work from home, right? Right. How many folks in the audience have the ability to work from home VPN? Okay, does that mean that you're working less or does that mean that after the kids go to bed you go, oh hey, you know what? I'm gonna catch up on email or I'm gonna work on that report. Raise your hand if you think that that access enables you to work more than you used to. Of course it does. Yeah, so I don't know. Here's that free cell phone paper, good luck with that. I think it's actually the opposite. I think we're so wired all the time that the upside is if you have that spark, oh crap, hey I need to write that down because I'm gonna act on that later on, which is good. But the downside is you have an argument with your wife, oh I'm gonna go work on my email. Write it down, I'm just like, hey Siri, remind me, I shouldn't say that, it's gonna turn on if I do that. I don't even write down reminders anymore. I have Siri do it for me. That's existential man. That's loaded. Any other audience questions? What's his shirt saying? So sort of a high level looking, I'm gonna have you go 20 years in the future and look back. So I'm kind of an old schooler. I've been doing this a long time. I've saw the PC revolution of the early 80s that did the internet boom of 99, 2000, 2001. 20 years from now, what will people call this period that we're going through now? The time you had, that time back in the old school days where you had actually flying on airplanes to get somewhere. Right? Well this, because I think we're going through something kind of unique right now. And I'm just curious because I don't think there's a right answer and I think that anything that you guys will say will probably not be what they call it 25 years from now. But what do you think this period would be called? I think that we've had the industrial revolution. I've heard this era called the information revolution or the information age. Yeah, the information age. I think that that's probably pretty accurate. I think that in 20 years they're gonna look back and go, this is the time when AI and machines making decisions or machines helping humans make decisions really became, went from being nascent to being pretty common. I mean we're seeing data engineers, data analysts, data scientists becoming really critically important to business operations. And so I think this is going to be the age of whatever you want to call it, digital revolution, whatever. I think it's the data rush, you know? If data is gold or data is the new gold, then this is the data rush. And it's kind of scary to think about. Like I was thinking about this the other day, like with the amount of data that people are collecting, what is it gonna be like to run for office? There will be dirt somewhere, you know? There was a candidate really recently, I want to say somewhere on the West Coast who like on his campaign page, it's like about me, about my history, about this. And there was a whole section called scandals. And he said, here's the deal. I've had affairs with married women and I've done this and I've done that because you're gonna find it so I'm just gonna put it out there. That's great. And here's what it is. That's a pressure. And I was like holy crap and it worked. It worked. It's not if people have secrets. Exactly, exactly. What proof do you have of the secrets that you have? We talked internally in a couple reports about Moore's law. Was it just a blip? And we're gonna go like exponentially beyond that and it's just gonna be a footnote in, you know, CPU history 20, 30 years from now. So it's very interesting where we've been but where we're going is, who knows? We're gonna be at the OpenStack Summit on Mars maybe in 20 years and Jeff Bezos is gonna fly us all there on his rocket ship, you know? I hope so. I was promised flying cars by now, dammit. We have time for one more question. So you guys have made mention of basically DevOps, right? You said the bi-section of product and development with IT. I guess I wanted to get your take on how you see that kind of vendor and operator relationship from a CSP perspective shaping up knowing that a lot of the NFV workloads are beginning to come on clouds and wouldn't stack. You're from a telco? I'm sorry. So we've been writing about DevOps for, you know, before DevOps was, you know, sexy, yeah, before it was cool. But before we were talking about what's preventing people from moving forward is the organization and if you're still doing waterfall development, you're gonna be disrupted by the folks that are doing Agile and the people that have implemented DevOps versus these stacks of here's your network engineers and here's your computer engineers and, you know, they're not even talking to each other. There's different orgs and like the flattening of organizations to enable developers to get what they need quickly. If that's not happening then things like NFV at AT&T and the big telcos is gonna be difficult to implement. Yeah, my question is slightly different in the sense that there's a preponderance of stuff that operators buy. So instead of it actually being more of a DevOps bisection and that there's a pipeline associated with DevOps, right? How does that work out with a vendor-based community? Because now we have to be part of the production chain. Right, so clearly I'm biased, right? I came to work for Red Hat because I am an open source guy. I'm not an open source guy because I work for Red Hat. I saw Red Hat out because I came from the open source community. So for me, I've spent the last almost dozen years at Red Hat being totally immersed in the open source community and having our customers and our partners get involved in upstreams like Fedora and the various middleware and things like that. So for me, that's like, that's natural. That's how it should be is that we and our customers and our partners are collaborating on making software easy to consume and finding those bugs fast and things like that. It's been really gratifying to see us go from being perceived as sort of this weird, what do you mean you're doing subscriptions and you're releasing your code out to the universe? Like what the heck's the matter with you? 20 seconds, no pressure. To all of a sudden have other companies, big-stayed, old-school technology companies doing the same thing, you're gonna see more of it. You're gonna see more of those interactions. So final thoughts, I'll give you guys each 20 seconds to say whatever you want. I'll start with you. Yay! I just find it very surprising from our data that only 30% of enterprises have at this point a formal digital transformation strategy. Shocking. Yeah, I think that as I said earlier, if your company is not actively pursuing digital transformation right now and it's not being led by your executive management team, that's a huge red flag. No pressure. Yeah, I mean, I would echo a lot of the same statements that have been made. I mean, at this point, it seems very obvious to say that if you are not in the process of transforming your business and you're not introspecting on everything that you're doing and looking at how you can utilize the emerging technologies, then you're already falling behind. Well, I'm sure I speak for some people in the room when I say I look forward to OpenStack's role in that transformation. Absolutely. Thank you all for coming. Take care. Thank you panelists. Nice to meet you. Thank you. Pleasure. Nice job. It was good to meet you.