 You're welcome back to the breakfast on PLOS TV Africa. We're now talking about a very important issue that has shaped Nigeria in the past few months and it's the NSAS protest. On October 20th 2020, a series of events occurred that is still shrouded in a bit of mystery because of the uncertainty as to what occurred that day due to lack of evidence until now. So an NSAS protestor who was there on that night on October 20th 2020 has released video evidence of what happened on that day presented to the Lagos State Judicial Panel of Inquiry into you know abuses by the police and SAAS operatives. She joins us now this morning. Her name is Sarah Ibrahim. Good morning Sarah. Good morning. Thanks for being here. Could you walk us through what happened on that day of October 20th 2020 from when you arrived at the Lakitor Gates to when you left? What transpired in those hours? Well it started as a normal protest because what we do as part of the coordination was that we ensure that everything is put in place. We ensure that the barricades are put in place. We ensure that there is food. We ensure that the protesters are standing in the right place. We ensure that the volunteer security is there. So we just started like a normal routine until about 12 11 a.m. when we got information about a coffee for four o'clock. And then what we started doing was started making sure that everybody is in a particular position because we definitely knew that the coffee was actually with the protesters. Because there was no other there was no other and the soldiers coming to the Lakitor Gates there was no reason for it at all. So this very day the soldiers have not given a defined objective of why they were actually at the soldiers. They have not actually said why. They have not given any reason because they've been going back and forth. I mean we were there we were peaceful we were waving our flags. We brought a lot of flags because every day at the protest ground we share flags like that is one thing that we share flags and sanitize that. They're always in essence. We share flags and everyone sit down while we just cough and then the coffee was actually moved. The coffee was moved and the legos said okay coffee has been moved. And everybody was there you know doing our normal process activities making sure that our voices have heard, criminals started and police brutality. I mean we had a lot of children from that their parents are police that are in the police force there coming to talk about how they don't actually have a good life. How they can go to good we're just doing our normal process activities and then we're actually shocked and surprised on Saturday here in concert from way afar from Sanfield. Sanfield is like very very far from where the protest ground is. They started shooting from that point just to chase protesters and defense them and also kill people. And they kept shooting kept shooting until they got the protest ground. There was no altercation. There was no okay you guys have to leave this place right now we got that information about something nothing nobody came to tell us to leave, nobody came to talk to us just came and started shooting. I mean they didn't bring water cannons, they didn't bring taser, they didn't bring segas. It's like bullets killing people and it's actually very very wrong and very very unfair that the legislative government keeps denying that they don't have anything to do with it. I mean someone comes to your constituency and kept shooting for over four five hours and you didn't show up you didn't come out and then you came after way way earlier in the morning and then you're trying to say oh okay out and they know about it and so just kept insisting that they were called by the legislative government. So it's like a back and forth. Okay so Sarah basically you're saying you went to the protest grounds as usual and then around 4 p.m. a curfew was declared and then you had the shooting and this was after you know they had turned off the lights at the leki tour gate right? Yeah the LCC turned off the lights, meanwhile there was lights in their office they left the lights in their office on but they put off the lights when the protestors were standing, put off the street lights, put off the billboard lights, put off the media, put off the people, put off all the lights. So and before anybody, army didn't come to shoot where the protestors were standing they waited until the lights were off. All right quickly quickly respond going around. I want to talk because you know the you know major part of this conversation now is because of the argument about whether people were killed or not, whether the army used live bullets or not, whether people were injured or not. There have been people who say oh where are the bodies of those who you know they claim were killed. Oh so quickly respond to you know the videos that you were able to capture that day if any and how all that played out. Did you see anyone shot? Did you say to one killed? Did you you know go to the hospital with anybody? Yeah first of all the army kept denying that it came live bullets. They denied and denied also during the cross examination panel when one of the the lawyers for the youth actually made him say that okay we brought live bullets. They kept denying it. I mean we have we took people to a hospital, Grandville Grandville um hospital treated 15 protestors with conscious injury alone. Redington in B.I. took 16 people, two were amputated and Grandville one was amputated. The other person that was supposed to be amputated was absolutely prepared to lose the last two. We had people who died in hospitals. We had people who saw who died on the floor right there and the bodies were carried okay we are taking them to help you treat them and them protestors with those dropping the bodies but he takes them which have been showed in the videos that were played in the panel. So it was showed like they were dead people right there in front blood gushing from their heads blood gushing from their eyes and their faces. So where are the bodies? That's the question that that's what we want to know because we saw you you came you shot you killed and then you carried the bodies and now there are videos of families coming out saying that okay this is the picture of my son dead at the Soviet obviously. Let me give him a bit of a decent burial. Where is my son? Why can't I have myself? There are people who are still their families who are still looking for business. Their families are still looking for for their children and then they're making they're coming out and they're asking okay I'm looking for my son but they don't want you to go because most of them would say I don't want to rob them or the government. So you can imagine in a country where the citizens are actually the government actually scares them to the point of okay I don't want to die. That's the kind of monstrous and devilish people we have in power. They don't want problems. They don't want to give it to my child. They need to give my child a bit of a burial. Sarah do you think this has anything to do with memos sent to hospitals and by hospitals to their staff like Lasut instructing staff and not to grant any interview and say anything about you know the bodies potentially brought into the hospitals? Of course it has a lot to do with it. I mean and it's a silly reason in the memory that we don't we do not want to embarrass the government. Some of what like because we even have one person who died the last that we know about that we've met the family that we know about so imagine the ones that we don't know about. All right can you also confirm the video clips and the pictures that we're taking of these victims and these people who died or were in the hospital were they made by you or somebody else? There were made by a group of people I mean as coordinators what we had to do in the process round was to ensure that everything goes well so like every five, ten minutes to make new videos about these and make new videos about that so so physically from a whole lot of people around and a whole lot of the coordinators too and we are proving it's in court that these videos are not doctored as they said by one of the army officers that he did his investigation I found out it's a photoshop. I'm still waiting for the people who did that investigation to come out and tell us what it is it's a photoshop. So we just played on the panel showing the government's data which we showed the the metadata which was final so this location which was proven that's already so in fact that state I mean it's actually funny that when it comes to the lives of citizens they're actually making us to come and prove beyond reasonable doubt when you know that it happened when there were live videos who were on live on instagram who were on live on facebook you know what I mean this showing what was going on that day so everything has been it has been proven all we just want we just want to answer where the body is attacked. Sarah who who's who's saying it as photoshop was this at the um the judicial panel? Because one of the the army officers when he gave his interview when he kept saying that the army was never present at the Saudi in nature john general in nature john that's his name. All right so yes I wanted to ask you lots of people have been saying you know if this is true the videos and pictures were seen as true why why the people who have the videos you know had to wait this long before putting it out? You need to understand that a lot of these people are out of their home and all of them are in safe houses they all of them are out of this they can't go to work the governments kept going to people's houses and dragging people out and it was so dark it was so dark that whatever picture or video you're taking you can't even see it except maybe somebody's touch cycles put on and the army were so deadly that day that once they see a blink of light anywhere they should direct me to that place so you can notice most people that even got shot got shot on their arms or on their shoulders so we're taking pictures you all out of them got direct shots to their head you all out of them direct shots to their head. How much do you think this um um affects the panel you know and of course uh the testimonies are the panel do you think that the videos that you of course have put out will change anything and change the narrative you know at the panel? I think the panel has a whole lot of on its shoulders because every government agency has actually tried to dismiss like the master top because they know it happens they just don't they just don't want it to come out I mean the panel has a whole lot of responsibilities to actually come out and say this happens and this is all one to do but the panel can go as far as only making recommendations and they're going to make recommendations to the governor and this then governor is the person that we okay that we know that is actually part of this too so it's like you're coming to tell the the the suspect and the one who is guilty that okay here this is what you are supposed to do to yourself and I don't think it's to make ends because that that's all the panel to do actually make recommendations but they can actually do their possible best job to see that the justice deserves and the truth is actually out okay because honestly everything that is actually going on now looks like people who died at at the late years of it are not going to be okay so because they're also putting off their life they didn't even release the footage of the camera so people were asked to go forensic they didn't refuse they didn't release the footage for them they didn't even bring all the footage of all the camera presence at Saudi and their current renovation in Saudi thinking they are going to go back to business so does it look like that that people who got killed and people who got shot can actually get jumped does it look like that to you? Sarah there's a very important aspect of this whole situation regarding the NSAS protest we know how this started out you know videos and pictures to face in online about how you know SARS operatives allegedly shot at you know just one boy in Delta State and how you know this went viral people started to share stories of how SARS operatives had you know attacked them harassed them even killed people that's basically how this started out as a movement to protest the high handiness of SARS operatives but this factor of the protests being hijacked by political thugs hoodlums how do you think this really affected the image of the protests and you know what they were trying to advocate for? Learning correction on that the NSAS protest was never adept it was never adept the NSAS protest was attacked attacked by the government it was attacked by the Nigerian police it was attacked by the Nigerian army it was attacked by the federal government it was attacked not adept because every hoodlum every talk that was actually present at different protest grounds were seen coming down from government sponsored SUVs from SUVs their videos evidences so the NSAS protest also it was not adept it was attacked it's funny because people are coming out to actually ask the government we didn't ask for food we didn't ask for water we didn't tell them to give us money so our basic human rights allow us to leave and stop killing us stop the brutality stop it that was all we came to ask for and then they came to shut us down because the government states when the people speak up and that is one thing we need to understand that we have the right to speak up we have the right for our voices to be heard we can't keep powering down on the people we cannot so they are public servants to serve us so if we are coming out today and the police brutality you should listen to us we're not telling you to give us money we're not telling you to give us water we're not telling you to give us electricity we're asking you for the most basic human rights the right to leave well I think the message the message has been clear from the protest even if yes there were people who tried to change the narrative but you know I still want us to focus on you know why we have this conversation and that is the ways to prove that people actually were injured and were killed the government has you know denied that over and over that anybody lost their lives the legacy government admitted at some point but you know I want you know you to share with us you know before we go an on-ground view of what exactly you saw the people who were shot who took them away did you you know join anyone of course who brought some of these bodies to the hospital did you in any you know take part in any of that yes the person who took people to the when the army left they're trying to take people to put them in private files of protesters because the army turned back the ambulances they turned them back so that proves to you that they didn't even they didn't even want us to be safe they turned back the ambulances that's even against the international humanitarian rule that they learned to actually when you shut down in Andran and take some people take some people to cut take some people to jail for life so we were there we helped people to hospital I've given you a view already of over 15 people taking to Grand Drill 16 people taking to Grand Drill Hospital some of them we already set out that we have overtaken two protesters in Bredington like he alone people have been treated at the carpark of Bredington people have been treated on the floor videos which have already played and showed already to show you how how many there were I have a friend at Lagos Island who was about to undergo an appending process and the doctors have to leave me because they were overwhelmed with the amount of gunshot injury victims that were present that day he just reached out to me and he was like you know I was in the hospital and he sent me videos of people trooping in and the cleaner was even complaining that they had no mobs anymore but all the mobs are still destroyed wow they were cleaning and cleaning hospitals they overwhelmed over 22 hospitals in Lagos he said victims from the late massacre so Sarah if you say that if you claim that the government directly attacks the ensas protest even with this footage that seems to you know have evidence what sort of you know judgements or justice would you be expecting from that same government that you say was responsible they could they could have just told us the truth from the onset oh that's the shooting oh that's the massacre where are the bodies where are they come on you have to bring you have to bring out these bodies let let let families go bury their children I played videos of mothers crying and asking okay this is my son I mean this is the video of him I've told you for I've not seen anything I've spent all my money going to the hospital you cannot see videos of mothers crying and you would not be moved so that is the kind of heartless government we have heartless all right Sarah this is a very shy feeling situation kill take the bodies and go bury and and I think that is what the the army that they should be ashamed of themselves wow to have a lot of shame more than the government itself all right Sarah um we wish we had more time to discuss this but really this seems like an ongoing conversation well thank you very much for coming on the breakfast this morning to discuss this with us have a great day all right thank you for having me have a great wow that's a lot to to swallow absolutely stay with us we'll be back after the short break there's more conversations here on the breakfast we're moving into talking about the electricity now the collapse of the national grid and what this means where do we go from here stay with us here on plant TV africa