 Welcome to Toffee TV today. I am joined by journalist and author Simon Hart. Simon, how are you? Yeah, not bad. Thank you. It's good to be on with you. Thanks for having me. Oh, it's a pleasure. It's a pleasure. You're not in the UK though, are you? You've experienced a different type of lockdown than we have over here in Spain. Is that right? Yeah, that's right. I've been experiencing quite a strict lockdown here in the south of Spain in Granada. We had seven weeks where we couldn't go out to exercise anyway. So that was, yeah, it was quite challenging really. So you saw the images of what was happening back in the UK. Sorry. The images of what was happening back in the UK and where people seem to have a bit more freedom, but here it was really quite strict. So after that seven-week point where we were allowed to go for a walk or a jog, people weren't a bit mad. Everyone was out exercising for a bit. I'm not sure how long that would last for, but it's a welcome change. It's not a bad habit to get into though, is it, doing a bit of exercise? And now it's spoke to Kevin Ratcliffe who'd been over in Spain as well, and he'd said a similar, just weren't allowed out. We had to stay in and the apartment he was in wasn't very well air conditioned and all that. So it's obviously very difficult. We've had a totally different here. We've been able to go out and exercise and that's become more relaxed. So at least we've had that kind of break. But for the likes of yourself, that must have been really tough. Seven weeks is a long time to be locked inside for, and you've done well to look so well in me to haven't been banged up for seven weeks or so. Yeah, well as you can see, I've not been to her dresses for a while, although I saw David Maddock on your show and thought it was the toffee TV look. I thought that's what the viewers wanted. This is it, look at mine. Mine's living. I've got Scally kill. I've got her like you at the back here now. Well yeah, it's going to need like an axle grinder or something to cut my ear when I go back. It's going to be basic. What's what have you made of obviously the work that you're doing? And I said this to David Maddock last week with no football at the moment. It's such a strange time, isn't it? And we've seen obviously the Bundesliga's come back. So that's been a little bit of football for us to watch. But what have you made of the whole situation? Yeah, I confess I've not watched any of the Bundesliga stuff. I've been in quite a long magazine piece for one of UEFA's magazines. They do a publication called The Technician, which is part of the monthly magazine. And that's all about how coaches have been working with players throughout this period, which is really interesting sort of hearing the different challenges they've had. I mean in Holland and Belgium, for example, you know, where the league stopped, they were just not sure what to do with players, you know, you suddenly look at an empty calendar until August or potentially beyond that. You keep them in for a few weeks, you know, you give them a bit of work on the grass. And I think they did that just to, you know, to get them kicking a ball again. I spoke to somebody at Barcelona, the first team fitness coach, and he said that some of their players were quite enjoying having that extra time with their families, which they're not used to. I guess if you've been on the treadmill as a top footballer playing Champions League, every, you know, other week playing international tournaments, you've just not had that maybe since you were, I don't know, 15. So that amount of time at home. So I found that interesting just hearing the different stories, you know, how people have dealt with this, some have obviously dealt it better than others. Somebody made a comment there for young players. This could be a good moment because they're actually used to playing, you know, in under-23 football, empty stadiums, they can get themselves up for that. So it'll be fascinating to see, you know, who comes out of this, you know, hits the ground running and who adapts better. And if they're going to be fit, you know, what will the intensity be like? You know, playing without the crowd behind you. The somebody who, he's head of the UEFA Injury Study Group, they did a paper recently where they've analysed pre-seasons for the last 15 years, about 44 clubs across Europe. And he reckons the six weeks is sort of the bare minimum you need. And he was saying, you know, with all these tours abroad, players aren't getting enough training sessions. So if six weeks is stretching it, then what about, you know, three and a half or four weeks? So, I mean, I don't know what you think about that. Yeah, I mean, that's really interesting. They're saying six weeks isn't long enough. But I suppose what will be different with this one? I suppose, and we won't know, is they weren't allowed to go off and go on holiday. And I know that, listen, nowadays players come back looking the same as when they finished, you know, from a time when we can remember, you know, the 80s, 90s, whatever, they come back, even the 90s probably, they come back a stone overweight enough to get back into shape. It isn't quite like that now. And I know there are a lot of these players have had individual training programmes that they had to keep up. So maybe four weeks might get them back up. What I've noticed with the Bundesliga Simon is that the first week, I thought it was technically very good, but it was a slower pace, and we've seen that pace quicken in the last, I think, the four games in now. The pace has gone up a level just to touch on what you'd said before. What's really interesting is how players are going to be able to cope with the mental side of empty stadiums. And what you said about the 23s was something me and Pedd had said on one of the shows we did yesterday, because some of those players will be able to take to it better than others, because, you know, they are used to that. So it'll be like almost normal for them. So looking at an Everton perspective, say, the likes of Anthony Gordon, you know, it won't be any different to him from what he's experienced. So it's an interesting one, but it's going to be very strange watching it come back with no crowd, because let's be honest, it seems like it's going to be that way I would suggest for the rest of this year. I don't see how fans are going to be back in stadiums while there's no vaccine, or certainly while there's no drugs that they can say, nine times out of ten, this will ensure you don't die, because that's what we're looking for, aren't we? We're trying to buy time that medicine can help us recover, and we're not at that stage, so I don't see any way they're going to put people back in the stadium. So it's a huge challenge for football clubs to be players and to get themselves up to a level and then see how they're performing. What we've seen in Bundesliga is I think there's been seven home wins in something like 13 or 14 percent, which is mad, because normally I think the Premier League's up at around 60-70 percent home wins, so it's going to be interesting to see whether we follow that pattern, isn't it, when it does resume? Yeah, this morning I spoke to the head of press at Cologne, and they lost last night to Leipzig for two at home. He was saying that we went one-nil up early, and if we've had a crowd behind us, it's a completely different game. You've got a lead to defend, you're going to have to defend against a better team like Leipzig, but with that extra, even if it's two percent the home crowd give you, you find the extra legs to close down spaces and so on. So I mean the goodness and factor won't be there, will it, which doesn't help in that respect? No, that's one of the things that will be interesting. Is goodness a positive, or is it when it's getting a little bit gnarly? Is it a negative for the players? That's going to be really interesting. We know it's a positive because when the crowd are behind us, we're doing games, you know, we've seen that. But also it's a difficult place to play if we're not playing well. So it'll be interesting just to see what Everton do. I'm really interested to see how the likes of Liverpool do with no crowd. You know, do teams go to Manfield, and I've got no fear factor because there's not 50,000 Liverpool fans there. Are Liverpool really that good that they'll beat them anyway? Probably, but it'll be interesting to see. Manchester United teams go to Old Trafford, 76,000 normally. No one there, you know, will teams go? And this is what we're seeing in Bundesliga. We've seen some teams, like Javerda Bremen, go away and win games, they probably wouldn't have won. And we're crowd and they're getting themselves out of the mire a little bit. So it is going to be interesting from that point of view. It's never going to be the same. And I know fans, some people are very upset about it coming back, but it's a business and they need to play otherwise, they wouldn't be playing. That's the way I look at it, without the monetary side. Because the sensible thing, I guess, would have been just to do what France have done and gone, would be back in September, but the monetary side of it doesn't enable that, does it? So, you know. One thing this lockdown has done, is it's given us a chance to look at a lot of other things, a lot of retro stuff, a lot of reminiscence. And first and foremost, the Howard's Way film, I haven't asked you about it. We know that you've seen it. It's a fantastic film, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely. Of course, like any Evertonian of sort of our age, it takes you back. It tells you things you didn't know. It just leaves you with this, you know, the warm glow, the nostalgia, the music. It's fantastic as well. You know, they just get the music right. I love that sequence in the Cup Winners Cup final, where they're passing the ball around, and it feels like Heaven Fiction Factory comes on. That was one of my favourite moments. But I mean, the job Rob did was terrific. I mean, having done, you know, having done a book on that era, and knowing some of the stories, ah, good timing, to see them, you know, on the screen, and to see, I mean, obviously I didn't speak to all of the players from that 85 team, so to see what it meant to Andy Gray, for example, to hear Sharpie talking, you know, it was fabulous. I can't believe there's an Evertonian out there who hasn't watched it by now. I mean, there's just no excuses there, really. No, especially now it's on Sky Documentaries. But I mean, the reason why I went to the Howard's Way film was because of the book as well, because you've obviously, you know, you've written this book that Here We Go, which you can get available, all good book shops, Amazon, Simon Heart, check it out. But there's great stories in there, and that was what I was going to say, because you've got these stories together in your book, and I was just reading the Derek Montfield stuff before again. You've got that stuff down in the book, so that must have been interesting for you as well, to have got a perspective of those stories, but then to see them out on the... You know, out getting played out on the screen as well, must have kind of strengthened what you'd found with the people you'd interviewed for the book. Well, to be honest with you, I was kicking myself after watching Rob's film, because he went for the definitive story, and he got it with the book. I was trying to sort of go down some of the less explored paths and, you know, speak to some of the sort of the fringe people, like say Paul Wilkinson, Paul Power, and then Rob's gone in there and he's given you everything. So I guess there's no point in saying it like that, but I couldn't help hearing this little voice in my head. But anyway, it's nice to see the tales, and well, it's brilliant, and I loved every minute of it, yeah. Yeah, now it's a great book, and again, it's for people who want to read the story, because there's a lot in there that obviously doesn't come out in the film, because you're trying to keep it condensed, the film to wherever it was, 90 minutes, wasn't it the same as a football match? So you've got the stories here from the book, which is brilliant, because there's a lot of in-depth stories. So check that out. As a blue, here we go. It's a great book on that 80s. While we're all nostalgic and celebrating 35 years of, since we won the league and we won the Cup winners Cup, check that book out as well, because it is brilliant. And don't feel like you've missed stuff outside, that you've missed the thing, because you've got together a lot of brilliant stories. But I hope you watch the Andy Gray interview, because there's a lot of stuff in that, which he talks about. So if you haven't seen it, check that one out, because Andy Gray is very open as well, he's brilliant. But another thing what we've seen, and BT have been really good at this, is the old 30 years since Italian 90, the BBC have had some stuff on as well, we've seen going back to Whale Cups, and they had stuff on the 82 Whale Cup, which was the first I remember of my favourite one, because Zico and Socrates and Paolo Rossi, and all of those players. But Italian 90, 30 years ago this summer, and that was an incredible Whale Cup. It was, I'll be honest, it was probably the last time I was a true England fan, whereas it devastated me when we got knocked out. I remember having teary eyes when Waddle missed the penalty against Germany in the semi, I'm thinking we're never going to win the Whale Cup. And here I am now, and it doesn't bother me anywhere near as much now, and we still haven't won it, but going back to Italian 90, your book, which is called Whale in Motion, which you can get, which is a fantastic book, and you come in and chatter to us about it when you brought it up, but I just thought it's a great time this summer, where there's no championships, we thought we were getting the Euros this year and obviously the pandemic's put pay to that, but Italian 90 just to start off with was an absolutely incredible Whale Cup, wasn't it? And what was the reason behind your book? What was the idea for your book? I think it was a great work because of the stories, not necessarily because of the football, just because of the drama and the different, really strong kind of story lines involved in different countries, and the idea of the book was, I think by now everyone knows England's story, the impact it had here, and with the book we wanted to just explore, what did it mean in Cameroon, what was the impact in Eastern Europe, where it was the last World Cup before the Iron Curtain came down, and what did it mean in the States, it was their first World Cup I think the 50s, if I remember right. So we were just looking at all these different, around the world, what was it about, do they remember it as fondly, do they remember it with regret, and certainly in Eastern Europe it's very bittersweet because they had those communist countries had whatever the downsides, the lack of freedom with communism, they had educational structures for sport, incredible facilities, and they brought through young players and they had strong leagues, the Yugoslavian League, the Soviet League, and all that just crumbled away in the years after Italia 90. So I found that really fascinating, that side of it. So anyway that was the idea of the book just to see what was the impact around the world of it. It was an amazing World Cup, it started on the frat, and you're getting chopped down in the opening games, and it was just absolutely incredible and the story of Cameroon, like you've said, it was all of the Gaza stuff and as from an England perspective, we were terrible. In the group stage, Mark Wright headed against Egypt, I think, got us through. In the end we drove on with Ireland, we drew one more Ireland, and we have a 0-0 as well, I think, and then Mark Wright scored the other against Egypt, to get us through. The story of Scalati, all of that, all of those little stories threw up at that time. And being in Italy as well, which is obviously a hotbed of football, made it incredible. What's happened with the book is there is a lot of different things. It's not just a normal well-cut book that you would see, it just takes you through. There's a lot of other stories and threads that run through it, which has made it really a well-cut to remember, and obviously Ness and Dome, which is the song that is synonymous with well-cut football, probably more than any other song I would suggest, when you think back to it, so incredible. You were telling me before about there's a Twitter account and I'm going to say it wrong, Venetia, is it? There you go, they're almost paying homage to the well-cut from when it started each day with a podcast. It's just explaining a little bit about it now. Yeah, I mean, during the lockdown, I've been involved with this. It's a podcast in Evertonian called it's his sort of brainchild and he's recorded one episode for every day of that well-cut, so looking back, so he'll put it out on the 8th of June, talking about the opening game, the opening day, and there'll be one right through to the 8th of July in the final. And he's brought different guests in, Kevin Sheedy's on one of them, Thomas Bertolt, the man who, Gaza, fouled to get his yellow card and hence all the tears and so on. So we owe Thomas Bertolt thanks for that. Pierre Libosky, great German winger, some different people who make an appearance. Pete Davis, who wrote all played out, a brilliant book about 1990 World Cup. Pete Sonic writes a lot, given his memories, because he was there, I don't know if you've read the book, but he was there in the England camp. He's got some great tales, it was a brilliant book. It became one night in Turin, they made the documentary on the basis of Pete's book. Are you on it then Simon? Surely you're on it. I'll make the odd appearance, yeah. I'm not the talent, Pete Davis is the talent, I'm sort of just filling in. I'm kind of like the Alan Harper, I come in when they need me. It's not what it is, come in and puff on. Well Alan Harper was brilliant so, you know, come in, do the job with the shadows, that's what you're trying to say. I mean, what's your override and memory of that World Cup though, when you think back now, because obviously a lot of people will go Gaza crying and, you know, obviously waddling mission penalties or whatever, but I mean, what's yours, when you think back to that World Cup, what's your override and memories of it? We're a similar age, my first World Cup, I remember watching was 82, so for me, it was the excitement of maybe it was the last World Cup where I didn't know any of these players, you know, nobody in England knew who Cyril Makinaki was or Benjamin Massing, you know, these Cameroon players, and I think that was the beauty of a World Cup then, you had all these stories and you didn't know them, there was no Champions League on the telly, that year the European Cup final wasn't on TV, that's the European Cup final, suddenly you get a month of football and it's Christmas Day every day for a month, you know, it's not like today where I guess if you're 21, all you know until this lockdown is a wall-to-wall football, so for us it was, that's what I remember, just the excitement of you go home and every day there's a game of football on a two or three, and then you get all these characters you never heard of, I mean Scalacci, who's Scalacci, and you find out who Scalacci is actually, you know, in Italy he'd come from nowhere, he never scored until that World Cup, he only scored one more goal after, but for one month he was, you know, he was the man, Roger Miller came out to semi-retirement, you know, so you had all these brilliant, Gaza, you know, Gaza hadn't, when England played Italy in the previous November or December 1989, Gaza was in the England B team playing Brighton, so playing stadium against Italy B, and Scalacci was playing for Italy B, and that just kind of sums up the, you know, the parallel journeys out of really, not obscurity, but they weren't expected to be the stars that they were in that tournament, whereas now, you know, we watch the World Cup and, oh yeah, he played for Wigan, he's a Brighton, you know, you know, all these players. So I think that for me, that was it. I think that you've just left an island, where it was like, for us, you know, as kids seeing that. I mean, the 82 World Cup, I remember, still clear as day, running home from school, got out of school about two minutes or four, and I sprinted home, ran in England, were playing France, Brighton Robson scored after 27 seconds with the header, I literally sat me butt on the floor, as he headed, they didn't to give us the lead, and it was in a tight, you know, tight net, and I think we won three, won Paul Mariner, I think, got the third, and you're right, going into those those World Cups, Brazilian were home, it was the only time you ever seen him, because he went in your, and so it was so exciting seeing Zico, and Eider, and Socrates, and Falcao, and Cedinho, he was, it wasn't like a Brazilian forward, he was like a European striker, big tall Straton Center forward, and seeing all the little interchains, you know, they were just, they were incredible, all the Italians, Paolo, Rossi, and Tardelli, and everything, and going through it, and you didn't know the African nations, you know, and they come into it, you know, and nowadays, you know, everything, and especially if you're interested in football, you know, you see and consume more football than anything, I know more players who're playing all over the world, than you'd ever would have thought you'd know, so that World Cup was the time where you wouldn't see you scream, if you didn't know much about, and I think that's why people, people kind of made them, like, said they were better players than maybe they were at times, as well, and it's why a lot of clubs bought these players on the back of those tournaments, and they never really done anything, and El Adjiduf, yes, I'm looking at you, you know, those kind of players who had Great Well Cup, Sally Dow, you know, Jaou, who Liverpool bought it, didn't he, because, you know, Senegal were brilliant in 2002 World Cup, was it? So that was, but going back to when we, you're right, we knew nothing about these players, so it was an absolute pleasure to watch every game, you know, three games a day at times, to see these players who we'd never, never had of, or anything, amazing. Yeah, and 90 was the last one like that, because of course, 92, you had Sky coming in with the Premier League, so the Satellite Age had began, the Champions League, you know, that rebranding took place 92, so really, and also, I think the people who rebranded the Champions League they looked at Italia 90, in fact, there was, there were some people who involved in the 90 project or putting 90 together, and you know, that kind of operatic packaging with the, you know, trying to make football look classy, and they they then end up with the Champions League answer, which, you know, is based on a bit of, you know, classical music, so in a way you could, you can see 90 being I'm not saying it changed everything, because change was already coming but, you know, it was definitely a factor, I think, so another, another reason why it's a fac, I think a fascinating time. Really interesting that with the Champions League I think I hadn't, I hadn't really put those two together, but yeah, it is modelled very much on how Italia 90 was presented, isn't it with that? You've got your classical music, you know, and it's all operatic, and it's theatre and everything, and if that's come out, if the market men have come from Italia 90 into Brandon for the Champions League, you can actually see the thread, that runs right through it and you're absolutely right, that was probably the time it did change for some will say for the better, some will say for the worse, you know but whatever it was, it changed from then, didn't it? Yeah, I mean I've, Pete Davis who's on this podcast a lot, he Pete's frame, which is the view that football was terrible in the 80s and that always makes my hackles rise a bit because I don't have a Tony and he's saying I used to go to Stanford Bridge and it was awful but you know, Goodison Park wasn't an awful place in the 80s you know, I had some of my best times then and it was a good stadium you know, I I was there going there as a boy I wasn't seeing trouble, maybe I wasn't going to go to the right place for trouble but you know, I so when people say that black and white thing rubbish before, brilliant after I wouldn't buy into but certainly it did change on that yeah so it's an interesting time and I think the fact the world is changing as well, you know, you look at that Yugoslavia team who was so good and you know, I spoke to Panchev who was, you know, the next year he was I think it was the top scorer in the Champions League and Red Star Belgrade won the European Cup in 91 and somebody like that really regrets the way football's changed because back then you know, Red Star Belgrade could compete in these tournaments whereas I think before they beat Liverpool in the Champions League the year before last, they'd not won a game in the European Cup this century you know, a big club like that so I think something's being lost I don't think it's just middle-aged fellas like there's been nostalgic no, it's definitely, listen people well, you're always you know what you experience sets you on your journey doesn't it, but I think football for me in the 80s and seeing that she at like an Everton level you know, at a league first division level as it was when I started fully getting into it, seeing teams like Wofford come through the leagues to finish runners-up, seeing Aston Villa win the European Cup you know, win the league then the European Cup nottingham forest and these teams used to come to Godderson with 8, 9 brilliant players nowadays they just plucked off they just plucked off and those lads go and sit in the bench somewhere at Chelsea and things like that, so that's changed from a European perspective like you've said, you know incredibly, you know, Darko Pantef what a name from the past, you know, great player and a lot of these European countries, it was difficult to get results and they had great players, but because of the way football is and the money man and everything else now they get plucked early so those players you see a good player coming up they're just taking because the money's available in other countries that isn't in their country, so they don't stay around and thinking somewhere like Nicola Vlasic don't okay and we'll have him because we've got a bit of money and now he's playing in Russia, you know, he's playing in Russia for CSKA, but you're right it's lost those teams especially the Champions League there's a real, it's just driven by money, which I think really loses the magic of it, it becomes very clinical and I think that's what the Champions League is now and I know people will say because I haven't known any, but I really don't find it that interesting in the Champions League so what's the final pool on involved in it because it's a sunny night normally around now I'm normally in Wales and it's the only thing to watch you know, I have a beer and watch a game of football but I'm not fascinated by it the way I probably was 15, 20 years ago when it was newish now I find it really sanitised, but that's just me but footy was well better than the 80s Simon and I'm not having anyone saying it wasn't just one other example for you on this one person I spoke to in the book is Juan Lepescu he's from Romania, he played in the Romania team in 1994 and he was UEFA's technical director for a while in the last decade, he spoke really I think interestingly in the book about Romanian football and how it suffered because 86 won it, the European Cup 89, the back in the final he was in Dynamo Bucharest team who I think reached the semis of the Cup and the Cup in 90 and Dynamo Bucharest were the club with the most players at Italia 90 obviously because there were probably only three clubs from Romania who provided players to the national team but they had really good they had a generation of Radiciu, Hadji Dimitrescu Likatus himself Petrescu was coming through really talented players who had come through their system which then disappeared when Ceausescu went he was deposed to Christmas 89 and their hotel at Italia 90 he described it as a bizarre because club managers would just turn up one of those players had agents so one minute Radiciu was sharing a room with him Florian Radiciu had in his room either the manager or the director of football of Andalect and they verbally agreed no agent, no translator verbally agreed to go to Andalect the next day the fellow comes back to sign papers and they don't let him into the room because in the meantime he'd agreed to join Brescia because Brescia were offering him Alfa Romeo he couldn't drive and he said it's no wonder Island beats us because all this is going on he said it was like the wild west their lives were completely changed but then I know that this is funny and it's interesting and they all became rich but nowadays they look back and think well there's nothing in Romania now and the only person who's really invested in youth there and the academy is Hadji with that club he set up Vittoril which is a really indictment that it's taken Hadji to actually bother trying to develop players there so their stories I found maybe one of the most interesting angles of that book just the way it had changed for the Romanians, especially the way they lost to Ireland on penalties That's a good one No, it's not It's a lot of plays for Rangers and I was just saying permanently but Hadji was unbelievable, he was left foot and that kid, the yellow guy with the three blue they were a brilliant side to watch it seems like that wasn't it where we didn't know a lot of players Patrescu obviously went to Chelsea and we had Elid Dimitrescu who played the Tottenham and we had the other kid the Tottenham, one with all the hair Who, Dimitrescu? Yeah, the centre back Patrescu Dimitrescu was the socks, wasn't he the ankle socks over and they'd all followed it in Alziard Elis's Five of Front Elid Dimitrescu but they were a brilliant side but loads of brilliant stories from Italian 19 Get the book Go and get the book It's brilliant, especially now as well with no championships on I think these kind of stories are really interesting and there's lots of angles coming off it and 30 years since Italian 90 why not celebrate a bit well in motion by Simon Hart Good Evertonian, why not Yeah and don't forget, check Simon out on that podcast as well Simon, I'm going to let you go It's been an absolute pleasure chatting with you If you've got anything else to talk about get in touch with us, come on loads of good stories there but go and enjoy the outside in Spain while you can What are you doing in Granada first of all before you go? I moved out here last summer my wife's from nearby she was out of Spain and she got a job down at the university here in Granada so I am like a dutiful husband I followed but as a freelance journalist doing stuff for your aphids I can theoretically work from from most places so obviously it's just become suddenly a bit more challenging now who knows when we'll travel we'll be able to fly back to England again hopefully at least within a few months but it's up in the air for well not up in the air as you might say but for everybody at the minute isn't it Granada is going to become a sort of team or are you not really interested in because the league the league is coming back isn't it on the 13th of June a week before the Premier League It is Granada had a great season they only came up last summer they were top of the league in October for about a week which was the first time since the early 70's the last time I was at one of their games was the Cup semi where they lost what they lost an hour to Bilbao they were ahead in the tie for about five minutes at one point late on but that's the kind of night you know you really appreciate now the whole town was excited the stadium was packed and you realise now that maybe we took that for granted a bit because we don't have that who knows when we'll have that again but I can't have a second team isn't right you've got to have something you look out for you know keeps your interest a little bit especially taking in the local culture you've got to Simon you're not cheating on Everton, Everton is Everton but you've got to but whenever anyone goes down there all the crowds start whinging and holding up these cards and I can't do that don't get into all that just watch some of that then be happy for the area when they win I can't do that either I'm an Evertonian I can't be happy all right we still got a listen we haven't lost for a few weeks so we've got a couple of weeks to go before results start mattering again but listen Simon's been lovely to talk to you today so make sure you stay safe listen before let Simon go here we go booking from about the 80s you know, tagging on to Howard's Way and everything that's you know very much out there at the moment 35 years since we won the league and the CUP check that one out by Simon and also Whale in Motion which is 30 year anniversary of Italian 90 lots of fantastic stories in there which we've spoken about so check that out as well Si stay safe look after yourself and get your hair cut when you can I'm going for the poor Wilkinson look oh well just grow them a stashing you're full on scouts 1985 you're living it thank you all right no worries mate take care Simon look after yourself mate see you big thanks there to Simon joining us from Spain make sure to check out the two books I said there we go and Whale in Motion give this video a thumbs up subscribe if you haven't and if you want more videos join us over on Patreon see you later