 President Muhammad Buhari insists that he has no anointed candidate to stand as flag bearer of the party while the Northern Governors are advocating for a southern candidate. And Chairman Abdullah-e-Adam-Muhad announced Ahmed Lawan as the party's consensus candidate. Sensitive election materials no longer to be kept with the Central Bank of Nigeria says the Independent National Electoral Commission, INEC. Well this is Plus Politics, I am Mary Anacol. The conflict rocking the all-progressive Congress APC has taken a new turn as 12 Northern State Governors of the party insisted that the party should pick its presidential candidate from the southern part of the country. This occurred at about the same time the party's national chairman Abdullah-e-Adam-Muhad announced that President Muhammad Buhari had endorsed the Senate President Ahmed Lawan as the consensus candidate. The Governors restated their position at a meeting with President Muhammad Buhari on Monday. Now some newspapers had on Saturday reported that President Buhari had accepted the advice of the Governors. However, a residential spokesman Garabashehu issued a statement to the state that the President did not endorse the call for a southern candidate. He stated that Buhari was determined to ensure that there shall be no imposition of any candidate on the party. We're joining us to discuss this, our Professor Chris Mokobia and Dr. Hassan Bols, our legal practitioners. Thank you very much gentlemen for joining us. Good evening. Great. I'm going to start with you Professor because you obviously can give us some insight into what's happening within the party and of course everybody is literally watching the Eagle Square right now awaiting Mr. President's arrival as the ruling party begins its primaries officially tonight. But first and foremost, we've had so many conflicting reports at this moment. The average Nigerian is confused as to how prepared the All-Progressive Congress is for this presidential primaries. Professor, can you hear me? Yes. If I've got to clearly, what the party is presidently doing at the Eagle Square is waiting for the President to show up and then for the primaries to commence effecting them. For their issues, they'll have to take not only the delegates, but the seeming Nigerian Polaroids of what happened into the FBC. The one is the fact that speculations that the President at some point have approved the candidacy of the Senate President and that raised quite a lot of popular and then later the President came out and said that the chairman of the party was on his own that he wants the party delegates to elect who would fly the party's flag. I want to say clearly that the voting is getting started because the President is not there. I just stepped out of the arena so I can talk with you. But what is important to note is that the environment, the atmosphere is peaceful, it's convivial, it's not as turbulent as people out there would expect. And then there's still a lot of hostility, some of the candidates are still talking to others. But what worries and bother the car parts of my mind is the fact that you do not take 100 million from as much as 23% and did not spare enough time to engage with them as the possible withdrawals. If you've been following the news, some people can't say clearly that nobody has talked to him about withdrawing from the race. Jean-Jacques Rich has said that nobody has talked to him about withdrawing from the race. And interestingly, my friend and brother, the governor of Kugistit, Kogwayayayabelo, had to insist that his name must be on the power. You do not go to a primary without effectively carrying your members along. If it's not fair, the ruling party must correct this boy board. Now, I'm curious because just as you mentioned, Governor Yaya Beleu had a lot to say about all that's been transpiring within the party. And a few hours ago on inquiring, we heard that there were still certain closed door meetings that were happening. And that's why the primaries had not started in earnest. But I want to ask you, why do you think that there's so much foot dragging and so many mixed information or communication as to what should be the modus operandi or the way forward as late as it is in the day concerning the APC? Clearly, this is the ruling party. The interests are mine. The structures are effective and formidable. And then you have a party that has about 42 million members. So it is the most popular spot in Nigeria. And if you were to unite and do that, those are things that if you are campaigning effectively, you are good at going to win the presidency. So there are a lot of interests. But shortly, like I noted, the party leaders, you should have been able to manage the interests of the community. And like you also noted, which is very important, the conclusion of the public space is must have it be. You must work out to say that the president or the party and the president when they make your interest in the party have not approved that, that's point number one. That's point number two. You do not own so. You need to comb down the amount of time they would have expected them to be in all the countries. You should be able to give them a seat like this to become responsible. Although I've made that a little bit too much. You should get them to conceive and consent to possible withdrawals. And that's why I'm a big boner because listening to Paso Tunde Banzai, he said clearly that he bought the form and nobody has come to him to tell him why he has to withdraw to a candidate. Just to each. They got from the likes of the other. It's the same thing. So I think that what we must do is not to say conventionally starting is to have the ruling party look at these fundamentals because if things are not appropriate, whatever it may have to, it may have a lot of work to do and perhaps be visited with a barrage of litigations in court. Okay. I'll come back to you on that issue of litigation, but let me go to our second guest. Mr. Hassan, listening to what Professor Wakobia has been talking about, being that he's also on the ground in Abuja at the Eagle Square, he's been giving us a fair understanding of what's happening. But then before this, before today, we had seen Mr. Salihu, who's a member of the APC, few days ago writing an open letter to the chairman of the party, saying that he was taking, he was hiding behind Mr. President to make his own arrangements as opposed to what the National Working Committee had prescribed. And they're saying that he's not listening to the National Working Committee. And now he also went ahead to declare that the president had picked somebody as a consensus candidate. Just as I asked the professor, I'm asking you, why do you think there's so much confusion within the APC? Even though sudden pundits had, you know, supposedly said that this might actually have been, one would have thought that maybe the APC would have been able to put his house in order. But unfortunately, this is where we are. And why do you think that is? Well, it's quite a very confusing state of affairs in the APC, as we speak, because in as much as one can be able to deduce that the national chairman is working in concert with Mr. President, it seems Mr. President is also hiding behind his own fingers, because at the moment, as at yesterday, the primaries also start as planned. Without much ado, the national chairman threw a jab into the public space that he had already had a consensus from the north in negation of what Mr. President earlier at meeting some few days that power should go to the south. And with all this confusing state of affairs, it really shows the heightened state of insincerity, lack of internet democracy, our best to treat people with cautious respect, because for where people have expressed their interests have been issued. If the party were to be sincere, you know, this is not an accidental decision. As a Mr. President, you should know that, oh, this is your interest. From day one, you shut out not an aspirant from purchasing the expression of interest, now you allow everybody to purchase 100 million era power. At the middle, at the tail end of the match, not even before the match, whereby the match has already started, because from the one that you purchase with power, you are already campaigning to delegate, you are already moving from state to state. Somebody somewhere will now tell you, no, you can no longer go AI. It seems that somebody somewhere is writing a script trying to usurp a process, because for me, I just believe a succinct, free and fair primaries in the APC, at least for the first time, after President Mahmoud Guwari's emergence, because their initial presidential primary was just at the formation level. The second term of Mr. President, it was an honor post, so there was no testing of this, no precedence of how to prepare for this kind of a scenario. So what I would implore is that since Adamu is coming from the PDP, he will start getting at the real experience to manage the situation. But unfortunately, it seems lost in the wind of interest. He himself seems to be more co-told to believe that he has an overvarying interest above all candidates. All members are the same, either you are vying or you are the habitat. So far, you are a member of the APC. You ought to be guided by the constitution of the party. But at this juncture, it seems there will be a lot of confusing interest because inasmuch as they power the zone to the north by fiat, by order, it will not go through any consultation. Because when I say consultation, it cannot just be one of, Mr. President, it's okay, give me the opportunity to choose my my appointed candidate. At the next meeting, you are still giving them another carrot and stick that you can want to choose a candidate from the south. And the following day, that thing within the 18 hours to that moment, the national chairman declared a consensus for a Northern aspirant. That on its own is to me, I would say it is inimical, unjustifiable and illegal in the same society. That chairman ought to have resigned or been hacked and booted out because it shows he's not going to be an umpire. He has really proven to be interested in the entire process. And I believe such a person should be asked to step aside because we cannot believe because he's a ruling party. If anything goes wrong, in the manner of our approach of the party's primaries of the APC, it's going to affect all of us as Nigeria. So we need somebody to take the chairman for a more tutorial on political organizing. Now quoting Professor Wokobiah, he did talk about the fact that there's still a few hours to address this issue in house before the primaries in itself begins. It's too late. Well, you just took the question. I don't see you cannot you cannot manage a whole nation like Nigeria under fire brigade approach. We are too important. INEC date is sacrosan. If anything goes into a mess today, the APC will not present the presidential candidate. Take it to the take it to the bank. The same scenario that happened in Zampara will repeat itself in the APC because they would they would they would have never lived for a short of meeting up with it and been said by INEC with all these synonyms going on. No process, no well presented delegate list. There are different scenarios of governor's list, the chairman's list. This is not democracy. Where democracy has to be, everybody should be given the same way PDP through their part of the ashram open. They should have allowed all ashrams into the game, not shutting out some people. It is undemocratic. I would have preferred both the north and the south, even if it is the party agreement. But it is not written that there should be rotation of power between south and north. But in as much as it is already written and a lot of decisions that have been running within the party, we would be promised a president to take the bull by the on. But is he national leader of the party? But the APC He should take responsibility. I'm sorry Mr. Hassen. In the APC we've seen that majority of the guys who were running for this office are mostly southerners. I'm guessing that's why the party seems to be tilting in that direction because we've seen so many southerners, whether they be from the south, south, the southeast or the southwest, they're mostly southerners. And that's why it is not yes south and north. It is not yes south and north. You can see we still have the Senate precedents and go below. They're just two. And I said the majority of the people who are running for that office are southerners. And I'm saying maybe this is why the party is going in that direction. But let me go back to Professor Wakabia who is on the ground at the Eagle Square who stepped out to speak with us. Now Professor Wakabia, you heard by Sir Dawson Hassen who's saying it's too late in the day for the party to do anything to remedy this situation. But again, in the interest of nationhood and of course internal democracy, there has to be a rallying point of some sort, whether 100 million or not somebody will have to step down for another. And there has to be a rallying point of sorts. Do you see that happening anytime soon or do you see a chaotic situation compared to what the PDP had when they had their convention? I can hear you loud and clear. From the race, they look around for the next one hour. But the point that I noted is that things can be done better than presently. We have candidates who ask where and who's got their phones when they were two weeks, three weeks before they go. So the party will have time to attend to these issues. Unfortunately, people without their party, the APC, they waited until this bad moment. But can it be resolved? The answer is a capital crisis. Can they get the aspirants to withdraw for one or two or three of them? The answer is yes. Can they get them to do so politely? The answer is also yes. That's the way with politicians. But I hope I'm clear that going forward, we'll learn to do things better and we'll learn to do more programmatic and less recurrence in the way we deal with issues of politics. Now let's talk about sudden big weeks within the party. Now there have been rumors that the vice president might come under pressure. In fact, I watched the Lagos state governor being questioned about where his loyalties lie tonight, being that he has two people who are from Lagos state on that particular ballot, the former governor and the leader of the APC, Bola Amed Tinibu. And of course, Vice President Jamia Sipantra, who also has been the attorney general of Lagos state and now the vice president of the country. And for him, he danced around the topic. And people are asking, who's going to step down for who? And some would say that the vice president might vow to pressure being that the former governor allegedly or reportedly is his godfather, even though that has been contested by both parties. But what do you see happening in the case of these two men who we would suggestedly call big weeks within the party? Do you see one stepping down for the other? And who would the step down person be? If you ask me my opinion as a stakeholder in the party, I would say that frankly, I would rather that Bola Tinibu withdraws from the contest and allow the vice president. My reasons are profound. Bola Tinibu, as he was himself, is practically too old, weary and tired for the enormous responsibility of shifting, resetting and reworking Nigeria. And that is why it's become very difficult for the supporters of the vice president to make him step down. The truth is that from the start, the candidacy of the vice president is more attractive to people and coordination beyond the fact that that's why the political figure and the phenomenon, when looking at how we can defeat the PDP and the police, and if we put out the candidacy of the Bola Tinibu, he will be an issue on the ground by the people of Bola, because they are the same generation, but the people are better than us. But many would say this about the president who is sitting today. Many said the same thing about him. He was ailing. He was not fit. He was not as strong as, you know, again, vice president, former vice president, but hey, he did win and he is our president. He's done two terms. He's almost about to come to an end of his second term. So why would, I see why you'd be put on that table again of saying, oh, he's too, oh, he's too tired. Let me put this in the proper perspective. Atiko Abova Karan is against an incumbent president. So it was very difficult for Anatiko Abova Karan to take an incumbent, a sitting president to be penalized. In 2023, we will not have president Mohamed Buhari in the back. We will have two outside house running for the race. And then the issue will be clearly between the competency, the capacity and the activity of Anatiko Abova Karan against, and that's what I remember. I am a member of the FPC and I say with all the provocation that it would be easier for Anatiko to beat Atenu that it won't be for Anatiko to beat the vice president. And the reasons are simple. The vice president comes with an amazing credential, a young girl, it's your capacity. It's not only very intelligent, it's amiable. And you're not dealing with the same generational challenge. You're dealing with someone who will tell you that you will think out of the box. And then you're talking about the kind who's already in power, who will not need so much time to beat the girl running. And that is not to say that I am in support of the kind you see. I was about to say that you seem to be on the side of the vice president. Could that be who you'll be voting for? No, I am this person here. Your position was about Atenu was about the power to move and then the vice president. Yes. If you were to ask me what my main party lies after you would talk about the vocation that I'm pro-yout, I'm pro and I'll try to generation our children. I'm pro in Nigeria where you have new ideas and those old ideas. And that is why I would talk about supporting the candidacy of my brother and friend, Don Ray Ayabe. He has performed the best of all the government in the country in the area of security. Really? And the greatest challenge facing our country is that of security. He is also the governor who has shown capacity in terms of good engagement with the government. He is the youngest governor and the most successful in new candidacy. And then regarding women included in the government, outside the country called Rwanda in Africa, he has the highest number of women in government. He has met the 35 percent United Nations, NDG goals and the affirmative action. Okay. So I am pro and I have been a president today. Okay. But disproportionately, I would say that between Bola and Kinuhu and the vice-president of the Kora Republic of Nigeria, if anybody should step down for the other, they should be Bola and Kinuhu stepping down for the other. Okay. Let me come back to you, Dotton. Interestingly, Professor Wakobia is saying that he would rather the vice-president over, oh, I think we lost Dotton Hassan. Unfortunately, we will try to get him back on the line. All right. Well, Professor Wakobia, I think I am just going to quickly ask you this question before we wrap up because time is not on our side. How soon do you think that this event will start now that we seem to be, you know, as a deadlock of sorts and the still closed meeting is happening? Will this be running into the early hours of the morning from the look of things? Like I said, with politicians, so much can happen in one hour. I don't see it deadlocked. I know that our progress is longer. We are pleased to be able to resolve these contradictions and perhaps come out of a pandemic reform. What is important is that, like every Nigeria, I think we lost that connection with Professor Wakobia. So quickly, Dotton Hassan. Okay, Professor, go ahead quickly. We lost you for a second. Because like every Nigeria, I want a new tendency in leadership. I want a new generation of 2000 governments. And so I am opposed to their typical Wakab people or the PDP. I want something new something different for our country. I hope they get to write. Okay. All right. Finally, Dotton, we lost you for a long time. So now that you're back to wrap up this conversation, who do you see the headliners, the frontliners rather, being at the end of the day, if and when the APC is able to address this issue and arrive at some form of a conclusion or compromise, do you see, I mean, looking at all of the people who are, you know, going to be running tonight for that particular flag, do you see the Southwest, the South, South, or even a Northerner emerging? Who do you think stands a better chance tonight? Well, I believe I must give kudos to Bababissia Condes, Magnanimity, for working on bringing the South, South, Southwest of the Southwest leaders together to come up with a, with a unanimous consensus. But quite regrettably, almost everybody seems to have been envisioned to be the next president and in a context like this, just like the way we both look at what Tamboa did to step in down for, for this party, at the PDP. This is politics. Politics, it's an overbearing, it has an overbearing interest. One, they as an individual from the section of that country and the entire nation as they go. At this point in time, I would have preferred all candidates after that last minute resolution. But for me, in a, in a, in a, in a way, I would have believed that in this kind of situation, yes, as you have developed, really tried, yes, it built the party contributed immensely for the emergence of Mr. President, who we believe deserves to be compensated. But politics does not go that way. We look at the scenario and the series that are involved. The vice president to me should have been given that an honor being the next line in that office. They have been in that office for the past seven years. Coming into that office requires a whole lot of learning. So not that it's the best of all, but I'm so sure that if they are rallying for it, we can look in that direction. But that doesn't mean that no politics cannot be decided on the field. So on the field of play, interest surpasses every other issue. I love Ashwajju and I love the vice president to come in as a friend, not as an enemy at the end of this entire process so that there will not be more enmity at the end of the day. Well, our eyes are fixed at the Eagle Square tonight. We'll be watching and bringing updates as, you know, the situation unfolds. But I want to say, thank you, Professor Chris Mwokobia, Doton Hassan, both legal practitioners. Thank you so much for being part of the conversation. Thank you very much. All right. Thank you. While joining us to discuss later on our next decision to move sensitive election materials away from the central bank of Nigeria, it's going to be next on our discussion stages. We'll be right back.