 This is this week in science. This isn't the real show yet, as Kiki likes to say. We are just starting here. You're in the green room before we start the broadcast. And we'll do a more formal introduction in a minute, but this is Brian. Hello. He is my co-host tonight. I'm down both usual other hosts. And so it's just me to talk about a bunch of animals. And I wanted to have somebody else to talk with. So I wasn't just talking into the cacophonous internet. So here we are. But yeah, so Kiki is doing an awesome conference. Justin is taking care of an entire sick household. And so here we are, the show must go on. We're gonna do a probably pretty abbreviated version of this week in science. But we will go on onto our usual stuff. Soon as my dog stops barking. But I wanted to check with everybody. First of all, that you can't hear my dog. She's very jealous. But also that our volume is okay. So Brian, can you say some things? Yes, how is my current volume? Tell us about your day. What did you do today? Yes, I had a wonderful day, wonderful breakfast. I slept most of the day because I work at night. So yeah, breakfast is dinner, up is down, topsy-turvy. Yeah, and that's just a normal day for you. Excellent, sounds like our volume is good. So we are gonna get started. I am not only flying the spaceship, but I am also the navigator and the pilot today. So this will be interesting. And I'm here to watch. Yeah, and we have really interesting conversations about the stories normally before and after I actually do the show. So this is fun, we get to actually do that on there. So we get to hear what our nerdy conversations at home sound like. So anyway, we are gonna get started here as soon as I figure out all my ducks. So Kiki does so many things behind the scenes. You don't even know. Okay, here we go, we're getting started. This is Twist, this weekend science episode number 920, recorded on Wednesday, April 5th, 2023. It's the Blair's Animal Corner Spectacular. Hi everybody, I'm Blair Bazderich and today we will fill your head with T-Rexes with lips, MRIs and dead spiders, but maybe not. But first, disclaimer, disclaimer, disclaimer. Dr. Kiki is running her very own Science Communication Conference. Justin is Dr. Dad running his own sick ward and while they are away, there's only one thing to do. That's give you a super block of Blair's Animal Corner tonight on This Week in Science, coming up next. I've got the kind of mind I can't get enough. I wanna discover reason happen every day of the week. There's only one place to go. Good times to you, Blair. Good science to you, Brian. Hi everybody, happy day of science. Welcome to this week's episode of This Week in Science. Thanks for joining us. Things probably look a little different today and that is because, as I mentioned in the disclaimer, Kiki and Justin both are not here today as I said on social media, they're out of office and so because of that, we're gonna have a quick Blair's Animal Corner Spectacular and I thought it would be extra fun if we had a special guest today. Hey, I'm Brian Pagano. Tell us about yourself. Yes, I work in an emergency room in San Francisco. I'm mainly night shift and so I spent most of the day sleeping so I'm ready to go. Yeah, it's just like Justin. Yeah, I'm on his same clock. It's like 5 a.m. for him, it's basically 5 a.m. Yeah, yeah. You also have experiences of paramedic. You've had what, 15 years as a lifeguard? Yeah, yeah, I can save a life. I can tell people to walk with the best of them. There you go, no running. Yeah, and so you have an interesting perspective from the medical side of things and you actually brought us a story tonight, right? I sure did, yeah. What did you bring us tonight? So I've got MRI on the go. Very cool. I, as I mentioned, brought lots and lots of the Animal Corner but before that, I have a quick story about talking plants. Can't forget them. And then I also have T-Rex lips, as I mentioned before. Go ahead, picture that in your mind's eye for a minute. And then I have Magic for Monkeys and some maybe dead, maybe not dead spiders. We'll get into all of it. But before we do that, before we jump into the show, I wanna remind all of you that subscribing to TWIS as a podcast, on your favorite podcast platform, on YouTube, anywhere that you enjoy us is a great way to support us. Those subscription numbers really help show the love and help support us in a bunch of different ways, just that's how the internet works, right? So anyway, with that, I'm gonna get into my short non-animal story to start things off. Brian, did you know that animals talk, or sorry, plants talk? No, they don't. I've heard so many plants, I've never heard a word. You've never heard a word from any of them? I talked to them. I've never heard a word from any of them. No, that's actually a really interesting point because we know that plants, at least anecdotally, enjoy it when we talk to them, right? That there's been lots of science experiments submitted to school science fairs about playing music for plants and how that's beneficial or not, depending on what kind you do. But so we know that there's some sort of sound exchange with plants. And we also know from previous studies we've talked about on the show that there's like electrical signals that they can use to communicate with their roots. But it turns out that they actually make a measurable sound. So this is from Tel Aviv University, and this is for the first time in the world where they have actually recorded and analyzed sounds emitted by plants. They say they sound like clicks similar to the popping of popcorn, but they don't really know that for sure because they're higher than we can hear. So they're at about 40 to 80 kilohertz, which doesn't sound like that much, except I will remind everyone, humans can hear about 20 hertz to 20 kilohertz. So that's very, very high in terms of what we can hear. So we definitely can't hear plants. They did a whole thing where they kind of slowed it down and remixed the audio so that you could kind of hear what it sounds like. And it really just does sound like popping a popcorn or almost like crackling on a vinyl, I would say. I played it for you earlier, right? So... It sounded like that. Yeah. It's not, the video had backing music on it. So I feel like that also didn't help. That's why I'm not playing it now, but it really just sounds like pop, pop, pop, pop, but that means something to the plants. And so they found that they emit sounds more when they're under stress. And that also each individual species of plant emit sounds differently. And so they actually had an AI listen to these plants and their different types of sound. And the AI was able to distinguish between not only the species of plant, but what they were trying to say. Let me explain. Please. Before they placed these plants in an acoustic box to measure these sounds, they subjected them to various treatments. This is where it gets kind of sad. Oh man, always. Listen, science is pain sometimes. So some plants had not been watered for five days. They were just saying, I'm so thirsty. In some they had cut the stem and in some they were untouched. They were totally content. So they wanted to see if they emit sounds in certain situations, what they mean, all these sorts of things. Unstressed plants emitted less than one sound per hour on average, but both dehydrated and injured emitted dozens of sounds every hour. So were they screaming? They were screaming. They were certainly screaming. Good thing we can't hear them. Well, here's the bad news. You know who can hear at these kilohertz? That's mice, insects, other animals. So the forest is full of plants screaming, I guess. Well, maybe not normally. They're chilling probably most part, right? I don't know, think about how many are being eaten in any one given moment. Yeah, okay. So a lot of that then. Like can the deer hear the leaf scream as it takes a bite? This sounds like the makings of a haiku for sure. And then the question is for Venus fly traps, are they like, when they're eating? Like can the insect hear them like munching down? I love the idea of not only stress sounds but content sounds for all plants. Yummy. That's amazing. But yeah, so this is the first time that the acoustics of a sound emitted by a plant has been recorded and not only that but has been quantified and kind of measured and associated with specific states. I'm not gonna say emotions or feelings or. So one of the chat room wants to know how you would rate a screaming plant on a pain scale in the ER. I guess it depends on how audible, right? I guess not at all because I can't hear it. Great, it's fine. It should be okay. Yes, it's that question if a plant is screaming but you can't hear it. Is it in pain? Yeah, yeah. Probably 10 out of 10 of them if it's getting eaten. Oh my gosh. Yeah, so next time you're pruning your plants, just consider the bats, I guess. Like listen for the scream. Anyway, so yeah, so plants can talk. Add it to the list of things that, you know, just tell your vegetarian friends. You know, those plants, they scream when they got picked. Yeah. There you go. Brian, tell me about MRIs. Okay, so we have Bonn University. Did the world's first MRI study of children receiving ECMO therapy. So ECMO therapy is of course, as you guys all know, extracorporeal membrane oxygenation. Basically they are taking, if I understand correctly, they're taking blood out of a pediatric patient, removing CO2 and replacing it with oxygen and bopping it right back in to this patient. Sort of like dialysis in a way. How is it like dialysis? So basically, yeah. Or not super familiar with how dialysis works. So dialysis, the way dialysis works, your kidneys, for the most part, no longer function as efficiently or not at all as they used to. And so for upwards of four hours a day, every, almost every other day, you have to go in, get your blood basically filtered out of your body, put back in to remove, you know, all your wastes that you produce that you normally pee out. So that's, yeah, that's dialysis. Okay, and so how is, yeah, how is this like that? This is similar to that in that they're removing blood and instead of removing waste from your body's processes, they're removing waste from your respiratory processes. Which is carbon dioxide. Carbon dioxide, got it. Carbon dioxide and replacing it with oxygen. I got it. So extra corporeal outside of the body. Right, yeah. And then oxygenation, got it. It's right there in the name. Done. Break it down. Okay, so who needs ECMO? So patients with heart and lung failure or in this case with pediatric patients developing heart and lungs that maybe can't support themselves. So like creamies, is that? Yeah, definitely. One of the patients they did this procedure on was 450 grams was about a pound. So really early on, yeah, early kiddos. So the good thing about this is it allows for the heart and lungs to develop, to rest while basically you're bypassing both heart and lung to oxygenate the rest of the tissue, right? So brain, all the other organs, you know, every other organ, and it allows the heart and lungs to kind of relax and recuperate, we'll say. And so this study is not about ECMO, though. No, this study is about... Yeah, that's a big old divergent, yeah. That is all for to understand the study, but what is this study actually? So this part, ECMO as it sounds, it's pretty invasive and it's a very sensitive procedure. So basically with adults, I guess they put in like a catheter to remove and replace the blood in their groin area. With children, with pediatric children this small, they have to go for the neck. The problem with that is kids are very tiny, very hard, it's a lot more difficult to secure, basically placement of a tube. So they can't really be moved too much, is the idea. Any movement has to be very minimal. The idea of taking them to an MRI, which I'm not sure how many of the listeners have actually been to an MRI or anything, sort of claustrophobic, definitely a situation where you have to remove yourself from whatever comfortable bed, hospital bed, whatever comfortable bed you're on, you have to go onto a table, into a tube, very disruptive to one of these patients, basically, is the idea. Okay, so like when you take a patient to the MRI, which you probably do a lot. I do, yep. Even if they are spending time in bed, you usually put them in a wheelchair or gurney them right up, like multiple floors, like they have to go to a completely different area of the hospital. Correct, yeah, they have to go to the radiology wing and MRI. You get them out of whatever that is and then put them into the MRI. Yes. Okay. Yeah, so they have to be replaced, they have to be moved, transferred from bed or wheelchair onto a table, where they basically can't stay still. The issue, the further issue with MRI is it's magnetic. So unlike X-ray and CT with CAT scan, they all use radiation. This uses magnetic field and radio waves to capture an image. That being said, there really can't be any metal or anything like that near a patient in an actual MRI room. So it's like a suite, basically. It's a huge area that's kind of closer to way. And obviously this patient has a lot of metal connected to them. So it's really, it would be even harder to have MRI safe equipment go into an MRI room, which yeah, there's like levels that even like, as a not an MRI tech, I cannot go past certain levels because MRI, for example, if you had shrapnel in your body, MRI would rip it right out. Like the magnet is so strong, which is, it would, you know, it. So a needle, not good. Not good. Yeah, not good. Luckily, I think with this, the catheters are most likely plastic, which we'll go in even more behind baseball. Most of the time when you get like an IV placed, it's they use a metal needle to establish the IV, then they remove that needle and all that's left is a flexible piece of plastic. So that's why you can bend your arm, it won't tear your arm. I had no idea. Yeah, so there's no, ideally there isn't much in the way of metal as far as like catheters and stuff, but this is a whole, it's a lot, a lot more, a lot more intensive. Yeah, that makes sense. So what they did with these ECMO patients who needed an MRI. Yes, they brought this MRI, they brought a portable MRI to them. So they have a smaller MRI unit that has, basically it's the whole thing is mobile. It has like a whole, basically what I was talking about, how it's different levels. It has smaller version of different levels. So metal can't be in certain points. And it allowed them to transfer a patient over minimally to allow them to get an MRI. The reason they have to get an MRI in this is unfortunately one of the downsides with getting this ECMO therapy is they have to thin the patient's blood. That could lead to bleeding in other organs like brain, it could lead like bleeding in the stomach and stuff. And the reason they need to get an MRI is because it's a lot more, especially with a smaller patient, it's a lot more detailed. It's a way better detailed image. For example, an X-ray, just think of it like taking a picture. So it just takes a picture of a cross section of your body. A CT is multiple pictures. So it's basically multiple cross sections that you can then cut through. And you can see basically from nose to back of the head if you're doing a CT scan of the head, for example. And then it cuts through. An MRI gets basically an overall image using, so it's instead of just one photo or multiple photos, it's taking an overall image using basically magnetic resonance and like radio waves. So that's why they need that. They can get a better idea of if there's any hemorrhaging going on in the brain or any other organs and treat that faster. So you don't end up giving a little baby a stroke, basically. Oh God. Yeah. So in this study, this is the first of its kind where they did a mobile MRI on ECMO patients. Yeah. And so what did they find? So they, let's see, let's go through here. So it's necessary for the sensitive groups. So they did initially on four, the first four ECMO patients and it was successful. And then since 25 children have been scammed in mobile MRI at this university, the youngest weighing 450 grams about a pound, the oldest already 10 years old. Mobile MRI was used for routine examinations and further diagnosis after asphyxia, so lack of oxygen. And a comparison image was taken permanently installed normal field MRI at UKB. So basically, they're going to have this as a solid thing. They're going to continue using it. Right. And so they compared it to normal MRI imaging and it was sufficient. Yes, yeah. And they were able to catch some things that they may have missed having not gone to MRI. That's awesome. Yeah. Do you have a mobile MRI at your hospital? No, no, no, no. Do you think you might someday? I don't know, honestly. It seems, because we are a cardiac and stroke center, I don't know if a mobile MRI would be appropriate. I don't know if we would need that. Right. So this is specifically looking at ECMO patients these very specific situations. But I'm sure that as mobile MRI gets better and there's more and more studies with it, that they'll find more and more applications for it. Yeah. Can you imagine other situations where a mobile MRI would be really helpful? I mean, anything where you really wouldn't be able to move a patient too much, like any severe spinal injuries could be potentially. And yeah, I mean, patients that are on multiple medications and ventilations, maybe that can't, like I said, you can't take all that equipment to an MRI machine because there's so much metal involved. So yeah, a mobile MRI for heads and stuff like that could be extremely useful to not have to basically remove a patient from what's keeping them alive and risk taking them down to whatever department, however far away it is from your department. Cool. Well, thanks for bringing this story. That's awesome. I can't wait to hear more about mobile MRIs as things develop. That's very cool. All right, everybody. Well, just looking at all the things. Thanks everyone for watching so far. We still have some Blair's Animal Corner to have next and I'm gonna queue up the band. Strike up the band. It's time for Blair's Animal Corner. Creatures great at small. Buy pet, live a pet, no pet at all. If you wanna hear about animals, she's your girl. Except for giant pandas and squirrels. Do you know what to say? Give us the goods, Blair. I will take it. Great, so I have, oh man, I have so much Animal Corner. I hope you're ready for this. I realize you live in the Animal Corner. Yeah, all the corners. Yeah, this is no different. Well, I wanna start with a real quick story about T-Rex lips. Hell yeah. But T-Rexes don't have lips, you say. Well, I have some breaking news for you. Contrary to more than a century of scientific and popular depiction, the large teeth of T-Rex and other toothy theropod dinosaurs were likely covered by thin, scaly lips when their mouth was closed. So kissable. So like, you always see the pictures or their teeth are bared. It's very similar to how you see crocodile or alligator mouths where the teeth are just out all the time. Honestly, that probably started as just like, oh, this'll look cool. Yeah, why would they have lips? Yeah, but also because the teeth are so big. So there was this expectation that because the teeth are so big, they wouldn't possibly have all this extra scale and skin and sinew to cover. But a recent study has looked at a bunch of pieces of the anatomy of a T-Rex head to kind of see if it would make sense, if he would have lips or not, this is important to say. So if they were constantly exposed, there would be more tooth damage, desiccation and wear. Desiccation drying out. Because you don't have the saliva constantly being trapped by the lips. Anyway, they looked at the relationship between skull length and tooth size for theropod dinosaurs and living in extinct reptiles, tooth reptile. They performed a comparative analysis of tooth wear patterns for tyrannosaurids and crocodilians. What they found was theropod teeth lacked any evidence of outer surface wear. So they were like super clean. Despite the fact that we know now that T-Rexes were not only carnivores, but probably scavengers. So they were crunching on a lot of bones. So like they were doing a lot. But they didn't show any surface wear of them just being out in the sun all the time. And then they also did not find the oral secretions you would need to keep them hydrated and protected if they were open all the time. So like crocodiles have extra juice basically. Yeah, that's what I was gonna ask. I'm like crocodiles are doing it. So yeah, why couldn't they? Yeah, so they have the extra juice that helps keep their teeth nice. They're good tooth juice. Tooth juice, exactly. And then also based on the size of the teeth and the skull and everything else, it looked more similar to a Komodo dragon which has a closed mouth. So all of that to say, it really looks like theropod dinosaurs such as T-Rex had teeth completely covered by labial scales, lips, when the mouth was closed. And this has implications of course on our understanding of dinosaur dental anatomy for all those dinosaur dentists out there for feeding ecology. So we know how their teeth work, how their teeth were maintained, how tooth decay might impact their lifespan all these sorts of things. And biomechanics, but of course also dinosaur portrayals. So Brian, I know you like to draw. Would you draw me a lipped dinosaur please? Of course, some frisable lips, yes, I think I could. So that is your task. Please, tonight, well, if you have any downtime in the ER, draw me a dinosaur with some lips and I'll put it on Twitter. Got it, you got it. But so I just had to mention that because it is kind of an earth-shattering discovery for how we see dinosaurs portrayed. What I am curious about is whether they'll actually start doing this or if they're gonna just keep it the way it was cause it looked cool. Well, I kinda wonder too, yeah, cause like in like a dinosaur museum basically they're gonna add lips. Right. But then I wonder, now I'm starting to wonder how many works of like fiction have rich dinosaurs? Like I feel like DreamWorks, if we watch one of the like, is DreamWorks Ice Age? Do they have lips in Ice Age? Yeah, right. Oh my God, great question. Here, I found an artist depiction and of course it has many pop-ups. Give me a second, open image. They look. That's what I want. Yeah, let's bring, that looks so much more sophisticated. Than what you're picturing in your brain. Okay, so I'm gonna give everyone watching or listening time to imagine the ridiculous thing. Cause I don't wanna rob you of that for a moment cause that created some joy for me. But now I'm going to show you what it actually looks like. There we go. This feels like Professor T. Rex. I feel like he should have. Should have a pipe. They should have glasses for sure. I feel like this is a thinking man's dinosaur. It really, it does just look like a lizard though. Like it is funny that we assumed that their teeth are always out but like if you look at current big lizards, most of them do not. Yeah. They have these, they have scaly lips like a Komodo dragon. It's totally what it looks like. So anyway, oh yeah. And this picture has no feathers. So, you know, there's that whole conversation too. I almost hit leave studio instead of stop screen share. I hope the feathers grow like a mustache or something. Oh man, that would be amazing. Just Professor dinosaur. Okay, so that's your second drawing. Yeah, for sure. You should make me. Okay, first one, dinosaur would live. Second one, dinosaur would live with a feather mustache. Okay, great. Okay, so that was our first animal corner. Next I wanted to tell you about slight of hand and how some monkeys are tricked by it and others are not. Now, if you had to guess, what about a monkey would tell you whether they would be tricked by a magic trick or not? Their willingness to believe. Right, their sense of imagination, sure. Some people might guess it has to do with their intellect, like, oh that da monkeys fooled very easily sort of thing. But in this study from University of Cambridge, it looks like it actually has to do with whether or not they have an opposable thumb. Okay, yeah, sure, I could. Yes, let me explain. So they studied three species of monkey with a common slight of hand trick called the French drop, which here, let me share a video of it. But basically it's when you exchange something from one hand to the other. Real transfer. Looks like success. But you actually palm it with the original hand. So I have something, I'm not a magician, so I'm not gonna do it with something real, but you have something, he's doing it on the screen right now, but you have something in one hand, like your left hand. You mime grabbing it with your right hand, but you instead let it drop into the palm of your left hand at the exact right moment. And so if I ask you which hand it's in, you're gonna pick my right. Because you thought you saw me grab it. And so a lot of palming magic tricks are based on the French drop. The old switcheroo fake out, you heard it a hundred times. And so they tested this on three different species of monkeys. They tested it on capuchins, squirrel monkeys, and marmosets. Now capuchins were regularly fooled by the French drop, 81% of the time. They were, instead of a coin or something like that, they were tested with peanuts. And if they guessed the right hand, they got the treat. Oh, that's nasty. So the capuchins were fooled a lot. They mostly chose the empty second hand. Now they have an extremely dexterous thumb. They're able to use what's called a precision grip. So they can waggle each finger and have opposable thumbs that allow them to kind of touch each finger individually, do all sorts of things manipulatively with their thumb. Perform surgery, all of them. Yes, yes, absolutely. So then squirrel monkeys, they were fooled 93% of the time. What's interesting about them, they were tested with dried mealworms. They're less dexterous than capuchins. They have limited thumb rotation, but they can oppose their thumbs. So they can kind of like, it's like mitten almost. And so this suggests you don't have to be an expert in the movement to predict it. You just have to be physically capable of doing it. So they have the thumb. Marmosets, they don't have opposable thumbs. They have like a paw, basically. And they were tested with marshmallows. They were only taken in by the magic trick 6% of the time. They chose the hand in which it was initially in and stuck with it. So they didn't understand what the thumb was doing in the French drop. Cause they don't have, I mean, yeah. Why would they, yep. Previous work with species that don't have hands at all like birds, they make choices the same way marmosets do. They don't understand the French drop. The first thing I thought of though when I was reading this, our dog. Oh yeah. Dogs are tricked by magic tricks all the time. Have you seen the internet? Right, yep, yep. But that has to be outside of this because these are all wild animals. Dogs are domesticated, right? They are used to seeing what our hands are doing and they are very interested in what our hands are doing because. Treats are in there. Yeah, they're domesticated. That's their whole thing, right? So much of what they do is more attuned to humans than even other dogs. So I think they're an outlier. So we'll forget about them. But in theory, the kind of overarching theme here is that there is something in our neural motor system. There's already a theory that there's a mirroring between inherent physical capability and understanding of somebody else's movements in the same way, like the same part of your brain lights up if you watch somebody do something versus when you're doing it. So understanding all that, there's this idea that perception, excuse me, is impacted by physical capability. Yep. So basically because the marmosets didn't have an opposable thumb, they didn't understand what this movement was when they were grabbing the marshmallow. So they're like, what are you talking about? It's in the hand that you put it in. So obviously this has a pretty big impact on the way we study other animals because again, if we are expecting them to comprehend something that we are doing and they don't have the same physicality that we do, that might not be a one-to-one. So if we're doing psychology tests or anything like that on animals, that's something to keep in mind. But it also just is a good thing to start looking at to explore the brain some more, which is pretty cool. Yeah, it is really interesting thinking about that standpoint. Because even talking about our pup, I feel like as, I don't know, humans I guess, we keep looking so hard at trying to make them understand what we're saying. Yes. And it's almost like forcing the point with treats and positive reinforcement. But it's like, it's such an uphill battle if they don't understand what we're talking about from the get go. Like they're not on the same, we're assuming they somehow are on the same page of this. So that's really interesting. And to your point, we don't have tails. Right. We don't have the same vocal cords that dogs do. And so we can't mirror their physicality. So do we have trouble understanding what they're doing because we don't have the same biology they do either? Right. Yeah, so it's an interesting way to kind of warp your brain thinking about how everything is subjective and even in this way. Yeah. Right. Is that like, if you have, you could even get a super meta into it and be like, well, if I have different abilities than you, maybe I can't understand what's going on in your brain at this moment. Well, that's, I feel like to some degree, that's true with humans, right? That's a really good point. Like everyone processes things way differently. So like approaching it with a different, like this is why you don't understand this skill the way, like it's different way people learn, right? Yes. Like visual and yeah, that's interesting. That's really cool. So it's, yeah, I don't know. It's a, there's lots of places your brain could go with this that could keep you up at night. All right, are you ready for more? Oh yeah. Do you want parakeets or spiders? Do it. The spiders? Okay. Brian got a preview of this last night and did not appreciate this. Sorry. So some female spiders pretend to be dead. So potential male partners won't fear being eaten. So on the surface, this headline explains itself. Yeah. We know that there's lots of female spiders who eat the male after they get what they want. Good. Instead of eat the rich, eat the male. Yeah, eat the male. Fine. But the problem is, if the males get hip to that, why do they come back? I mean, there's a certain, there's a biological drive. They're, they still are compelled to do so. But if there's one female that looks safer than another, which for some reason means the dead one, which doesn't make a lot of, I don't know. That one's harder for me because, like, I, let me just report on the story and then I'll get into it. So a team of bioscientists affiliated with several institutions in China, working with a colleague from Australia, because that's where the spiders are from, of course, found that some females of funnel spiders, some female funnel spiders play dead to attract male sexual partners. They collected several specimens of Eterigina aculeata and tested their behavior in the lab, funnel-eating, weaving spiders are exactly what they sound like, they spin webs in the shape of a funnel. And those species in Australia of funnel-eating spiders are very dangerous shock. Of course, Australia, without treatment, they can cause severe pain and actually kill you. So they are very dangerous. Very deadly, yeah. They're known to engage in sexual cannibalism as we just discussed. And so they also found that the females, they have sexual catalepsy, which means playing dead during the mating process, which I guess is a thing that other animals do. I gotta look into it now, I'm very curious. But what they wanted to see was whether the female's death-like state was controlled by the female herself or if the male was influencing it via hormones or something else. And so they did a series of experiments. In the first, they were allowed to mate naturally. In the second, they shaked her in a tube before allowing the pair to mate. And in the third, they put the female in a death-like state artificially using an anesthetic. Here's the part Brian really doesn't like. After the experiments, all of them were frozen and ground up, allowing researchers to study their chemical states. Just like, why, like, I get, this study is cool. It's a, you know, you get to learn about reprimand. You get to grind them up. It's too extreme, too extreme for me. I feel like that's censored for Brian. Yeah. After that, they all went back outside and had fun. Yeah, and they all had a lot of fun. And it was great. They didn't get ground up. But they wanted to know about the chemical states because they wanted to know if the male was influencing the female chemically. So the male's not sending any signals. The females are doing it on purpose. They're putting themselves into a state and they're only doing it for the males they deemed worthy. So they also get to kind of pick like, I promise I won't eat you. Right. Come over here. You look like a very worthy male. They also discovered that they were very capable of controlling the duration of their state and they were able to get up and walk away as soon as copulation was done. So not only were they able to control when they went down, they were able to control when they woke up. And then eat the guy, I guess. Sometimes my question is, is it a death-like state or is it a sleep-like state? Because again, my question is why would a male mate with a dead female? Right. That's not beneficial to him at all. Yeah. That's a good point. So... And like what, I wonder what even proximity, like does the male spider see the female croak? Yeah, like she swallows basically. Like, you know, because I know that, what's the, is it a dancing spider? Is that part of like a mating? Oh yeah, could be like a, yes, the jumping spider. Yeah, oh, jumping, yeah. Is there like a dance that's involved? Right. They get the vapors? No, that's a really good question. Is it a mating display? Right. Like on the flip-flop. Yeah, I agree. I think that this is way too surface level that they like gave the judgment of it's like, they are fading death end of story. Like I need more data to prove that it is not a sleep-like state, to prove that it is not a mating ritual, to prove that it is not like just herbie and chill, like I promise I won't eat you. Right. So I think they need to do a lot more research, but you know what that means. More ground-ups. I know. More powdered spiders. That's the problem, the quest for knowledge. Leaves a lot of corpses. A lot of spider corpses. This is interesting, this is interesting, like I guess adaptation, like sort of behavior too, right? Cause if the male spiders are no longer into being eaten, their reproduction of the whole species is gonna go, it's gonna plummet. Yes. So like, it's weird that they chose to play dead instead of just don't eat the dude. Yeah. Yeah. But then, yeah, you know. He's done his part. We figured things out. We're still figuring things out. The thing is, yeah, he did his job. Yeah. Especially considering, you know, I don't know if fun-alive spiders do this, but remember that black widows, the males will sometimes break off their genitalia as a club, which at that point, they have no reason to stay alive because they can't mate anymore. Right. They're like food competition at that point. Just peace out. Yeah. Thanks for your contribution. Yeah. So it's very complex. Spider sex is so complicated. I can't even. I have one more story. Yes. There's about monk parakeets. They are a parrot that is very loud and very competitive and they live in complex social groups. This is from University of Cincinnati and they wanted to look at essentially social displacement when birds disappear for a while and then come back. So they wanted to see all about kind of the social dynamics of when a bird goes on a trip, perhaps into a researcher's laboratory and then returns to the wild. What does that do to the social dynamics? So they studied three groups of captive monk parakeets in 2021 and 2022. They wanted to see whether social history was critical in structuring how parakeets gained and maintained ranks. So like, do you as a parakeet remember that I was top parakeet before I left? Is really the question. When I come back, does that matter? Is it relevant or is it like getting the back of the line? Right. So they identified each bird's status in their hierarchy by observing interactions and quantifying rank using networks of aggression. How'd they do that? They recorded 100,000 fights over two years. Science. And when they say fights, they're not knock down drag out, they're displacement fights. So basically they just kind of like, smack beaks together, yell at each other, squabble, and then eventually one leaves. And that's displacement is like, all right, you bullied me, I'm gonna go. And then the bird that stayed gained social standing. They're like exiled? They had to go make it on a roll? No, no, no, it's more just like, hey, give me your seat. Oh, okay, got it. It's bullying, basically. And if you kind of faint, if you like, let me take your seat, then I'm better than you. Very simple. So typically an aggressor will come up, peck the other bird, then the bird flees, then, okay, he won. Once hierarchy forms, it takes a little bit when a new group comes together, they then removed birds of different social standing for eight days and then returned them to the flock. And then they recorded the fights. If they wanted to see if there was something about that bird that gave it high rank, were they big, were they more aggressive than other birds, were they more colorful, were they louder? Like, is there something that is being selected for that goes, that man's talk dog, right? Tattoos, scar over the eye. Right, right, right. Mustache. Yeah, like a leather jacket. Yeah, absolutely. So that's the question. But what they found is there's really no measurement size, any of these other things did not matter in their placement. It was force of will. Little power, that's the best power. Just basically like, who's the most incessant? Like who, who's like most determined, who's like not gonna get displaced, right? So they found that it wasn't associated with anything measurable. So rank loss looks like it's more likely a result of a change in social history. Like you weren't here, dude, I took your spot. So it's like a power vacuum. Everything shifts to accommodate the power vacuum as soon as a parakeet leaves. And then when they come back, there's no space for them. Nobody's willing to step aside and let them take their spot back. Oh, shoot. Which is really what's unusual. High rank birds had the hardest time reintegrating. It was like, you were top dog last week, but now we all hate you because you were a bully. Lower rank birds had a decline, but it was not as dramatic also because there was just less far to fall. Yeah, less expectations, those are the good ones. I like those are the good ones. I'm comfortable down here, this is fine. So this is interesting because as I said, one, it's not a measurable thing about these individuals that make them top parakeet. It's really just who has won the most fights, displaced the most birds and has been there to displace birds. And as soon as you're gone, you're a history man. Nobody cares about you anymore. It doesn't matter. So the reason this is important is because as I mentioned at the beginning, animals are taken away from their social groups all the time for science experiments. Science. They're also taken away, maybe they're injured and they go into rehab and then they're re-released. Maybe they're genetically important to a declining species. You pull them, you take some genetic information or you enter them into a breeding program then release them again. Like there's a million reasons that that could happen. Also, if you maintain a captive population, you could potentially move animals around, pull one for an experiment, all these sorts of things. If you maintain captive animals in a zoo, conservation organization or in a lab. And so if you understand that specific species work this way, that can impact how you care for those animals. So the more you know about that, the better. Yeah, how would you like, because then you'd have to isolate, because it wasn't, the top dogs weren't like keeping out other, the lower ranks, right? It was just the whole, the group as a whole. Hmm, do you need to be able to isolate a couple to be like, oh, let's reintegrate. They'll be easy breezy. It's like, man. Yeah, it's complicated. You got a stage of fight that they can see with the puppet bird. Yes, there you go. And then they're like, oh, it's cool guys, back, bring them in. Yeah, yeah, there you go. So all right, so those are all of my stories tonight. I hope that was enough animal corner for everybody. We do not have any more. That's it. It's a short show today, but we've done it. We've done the whole show. Hopefully you can't hear our dog in the background who's very upset she is ready for this to be done. Thank you all for listening. I really hope you enjoyed the show. Shout out to Fada for helping with social media, show notes, Gord for maintaining that chat room, identity four for recording the show, Rachel for all of the editing. Hopefully this wasn't too much this week. There's only one mic to worry about. And of course I'd like to thank our Patreon sponsors for their generous support. I of course do not have access to that list, but you can pretend that I am reading a long list of patrons right now. We love you. Also, thank you, Brian. Oh, my pleasure. Thank you for having me. Oh yeah, it was so fun as I really appreciate not just talking to a wall, but also enjoying this science conversation with you. Like I said, we have these conversations, but they're not usually recorded. So I'd love to hear from all of you if you enjoyed this get a little peek into the behind the scenes in Blair's Animal Corner, AKA our households, what it sounds like when we're geeking out about animals and science in the house. If you would like to support us on Patreon, you can go to patreon.com slash this weekend science. On next week's show, Kiki will be back, Justin will be back. And when will they be back, Brian? Yes, they will be back on Wednesday at 8 p.m. Broadcasting live from your YouTube, Facebook channels and from twist.org slash live. Hey, do you want to listen to us as a podcast? Perhaps we'll you draw a T-rex with some delicious lips. Just search for this week in science where podcasts are found. If you enjoyed the show, get your friends to subscribe as well. For more information on anything you've heard here today, show notes and links to stories, we will be available on their website, twist.org. And you can also sign up for the newsletter. You can also contact us directly. Do you have contact information? No. I'm off the grid completely. So if you want to contact Brian, you'll just have to contact me. I will pass it along, I promise. You can contact Kiki and ask her how our conference went at kirsten at thisweekinscience.com. You can contact Justin and ask him how his sick house is at twistminion at gmail.com or you can email me and tell me how much you like the show. Please don't tell me if you didn't, that's not helpful. Or you can send Brian your fan mail because he's so amazing at BlairBaz at twist.org. Just be sure to put twist T-W-I-S in the starting line or your email will be spam-filtered into a funnel spider web. Whether playing dead or something. Yeah. You can also ping them on Twitter. They are twist science at Dr. Kiki, at Jackson Fly, and at Blair's Menagerie. We love your feedback, and if there's a topic you would like twist to cover or address or a suggestion for an interview, please let them know. We'll be back here next week, and we hope you'll join us again for more great science news. And if you've learned anything from the show, remember. It's all in your head. This week in science. This week in science. This week in science. This week in science, it's the end of the world. So I'm setting up shop, got my banner unfurled. It says the scientist is in. I'm going to sell my advice. Show them how to stop the robot with a simple device. I'll reverse below the warming with a wave of my hand. And all this is coming your way. So everybody listen to what I say. I use the scientific method. This week in science. This week in science. Science. This week in science. This week in science. This week in science. Science. I've got one disclaimer, and it shouldn't be news. That what I say may not represent your views, but I've done the calculations. And I've got a plan. If you listen to the science, you may just then understand that we're not trying to threaten your philosophy. That was abrupt. He's much better at fading that out than I am. We're going to stay for just a few minutes for a little after show to answer some questions and chat with a little chat for a little bit. But then he has to go to work. So we can't stay too long. But I'm going to look and see because I haven't really been able to monitor the chat room at all. Awesome. Let's see. Oh, yes. We're getting some positive feedback. Hey. Yeah. We finally let Sanyin. She felt very left out. She was not pleased that we were having twists without her. She had a good story, too, but she didn't. What was it? It was my treats. And she not getting enough of them. 10 out of 10 cordonies need more treats, according to this study. Yeah. So anyway, that was a lot of Blair's Animal Corner tonight. I brought all the stories that I maybe wanted to bring instead of just a couple like I usually do. Yeah. Kiki's having a blast at her Science Communication Conference science talk. I really hope that it's going well. I wish I could be there in Portland with her. But this is good, too. This was pretty fun. Kind of last minute, she asked me, hey, can you just, Justin said he was sick. And she's like, oh, I'm stuck at the conference. Can you just do the show? And I was like, oh, God. I don't know if I can do a whole show by myself. That is a lot. And I like almost jokingly asked you to help because I didn't expect you to say yes right away. I thought I was going to have to cajole you a little bit. I was ready. I had my story all ready to go. That's amazing. I love it. Hopefully it's a little bit of a different perspective than originally gives. See, that's enough. Anyway, you guys have any questions for us? We talk all the time. I don't have too much to talk to you about right now. We literally talk all day every day. Fada's leaving us. Thank you, Fada. Great job. We still did almost an hour. It's pretty good. Yeah. Awesome. Oh yeah, it sounds like they can hear Sadie towards the end. That's a bummer. Oh, well, Sadie, you're a guest star this week, along with your dad. How did the three of us originally meet and decide to do the show? Do you mean Kiki and Justin? Or do you mean me and Brian and Sadie? I need a follow-up response. I'm guessing the question is about twist in general, which I joined the train while it was on the tracks. I think most of you know that. My dad actually listened to the show and they put out a call for interns. And he said that I should apply. And I was just kind of like looking for something intellectual to do while I was zoo keeping. I was like, oh, this is actually interesting. It's a good idea. And I just applied to be an intern and then never got rid of me, got my claws in. And you expanded your science communication a whole bunch too. Yeah, that's true. That was before I went through Noki or did most of my formal education in science communication actually. So that was pretty cool. It was a neat little toe dip. Because especially those first couple of years I was only doing, I think, a show, a story a week. Yeah, the hiccups now. Maybe it was less than that. Maybe it was only six months I was an intern before they made me a full co-host. I know it was when I moved to Israel that Kiki was like, all right, you're a co-host now, which is pretty cool. Yeah, and as Ben says, Twist started as a radio show before it was a podcast on KTVS and Davis, which we still broadcast on. That's cool. That's really cool. I don't know what day or time. But we have like, it's like a flexible slot, last I heard, is basically however long the show is, they kind of put us in there. An hour, 45 minutes, hour 10, kind of whatever. I don't know. I'd love to hear from someone who actually listens to us on the radio. I know Justin used to listen to it on the radio when he lived there, but oh, yeah. Yeah, well, that's the whole idea. John Hogan in the chat says, I like the fact that you guys discuss the subjects instead of report it. Yeah, I think that's the cool thing about science and the thing that I love talking about and why I always, people always ask me, like, what are you reporting on this week? And I love chatting about it, is because there's so much to extrapolate. That's like the big, that's the fun of it, is the what if, I think. Yeah, yeah. And like you pointed out a couple of times, like the amount of doors that this study opens up now and like, holy cow, like now we get to look at something like entirely different. Like communication, like if that was huge, you know. Yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah, Ben, Ben Rothic, I agree. I really don't like hearing my own voice. I've gotten better at it since I do a lot of video editing in my job now for like educational videos. So I have to hear my voice over and over and over and over and over again, but definitely at the start of doing twists, I cringed just so hard. But you heard me on twist before you ever met me in person. True, yeah, it was very, yep, yep. So that was pretty fun. You knew exactly what you were getting. Yeah, yeah, it was very cool. I got to like cheat code, basically. I know, and I only had 2D representations of you, so I had no idea. I love hearing my own voice, so that's fine. I can't wait to replay this whole episode. Yeah, nice. OK, well, it's 9 o'clock, so I think we got to let you go so you can go to work. Any last thoughts from people in the chat room before we go? This is your last call. Not you, Sadie. She is so upset. Oh, yeah, it's 11 o'clock for Ben. Yeah, well, thank you so much for joining us tonight. I know it was like a very different version of this week in science, but we got through it. We still delivered you some science news. Hopefully it was still enjoyable and entertaining and educational. And I hope that you all stay healthy, stay safe, stay curious. I think that's what Kiki says. And then I say, say goodnight, Brian. Nighty night, Brian. And then you say, say goodnight, Blair. And I say, goodnight, Blair. Goodnight, everybody. We're so thankful for all of you. Thanks for spending the evening with us. And I'll definitely see you next week. And he'll see you from the other room next week. Thanks, you guys, for having me on here. Goodnight, everybody. Bye. Bye.