 The Minister of Niger Delta Affairs Gotswil Aqabiu has urged the National Assembly to quickly pass the Petroleum Industry Bill, PIB, irrespective of whatever percentage of revenue is allocated to the oil-producing communities that has been outraged, especially in the Niger Delta region, over the 3% share recommended by Nigerian lawmakers who recently passed the bill. While the House of Representatives recommended 5% as equity-holding for the host communities, senators pushed for 3%. The southern governors in the recent meeting also rejected the 3% proposed for the host communities. They said a 5% share would even be better. Joining us to discuss this is Thompson Okorotie. He is the Deputy National Chairman for PANDEF and Dr Peter Mayday. He is the River State Commissioner for Energy and Natural Resources. Thank you very much, gentlemen, for joining us. Thank you for having me. I'm going to start with you. I'm starting with the Assistant National Chairman of PANDEF. Tell us exactly how you feel about the 3% because governors are kicking against it. A lot of people in the Niger Delta are agitating against it. But then there's also the issue of 30% that will be allocated to for some form of drilling of oil or in such of oil in the Chad and in the northern parts of the country. But the host communities are at least getting 3%. How does that make you feel as PANDEF? That is the only disappointment. We have said so in the community that we issued a few days ago. We believe that this is yet another attribution of insensitivity on the part of the national government. And the original allocation is about 10%. That's what we still stand on. But unfortunately they have lowered it to 5% in the case of the House of Bref. And ridiculous 4% in the case of the Senate. At a medium term measure, we join the governors to say we take 5% now. But the battle is not over. We are looking for 10%. This bill has already been passed and you're saying the battle is not over. As the manner of things is in Nigeria once it's passed, it's passed. Pushing for PIB has taken over 20 years. What's the assurance that we're going to have the next group of senators and national assembly members shift grounds on what has already been passed into law? That's what I'm saying. At a medium term situation, we accept 5% and not 3%. But I'm just letting you know that we had an original position of 10%. And that we didn't get it was a disappointment. Let me go to what former governor of our crime on stage who is the now minister. He spoke about the fact that we should just take what is being given and just make sure that this bill is passed and we go ahead with the business of the day. In fact, he said, and I like to quote, he said, we should just pass the bill irrespective of what it is now for the oil producing countries. He said that whatever we agree on now, we can accept it at least. Let us start from somewhere, he says. When he says we, it seems like he's speaking for the people of the Niger Delta because he is the minister for the Niger Delta. Do you think that he's re-echoing the voices of the people of the Niger Delta? Because you seem to be on the same side with him. You're saying that, well, although it's disappointing, but you seem to accept what the National Assembly has given. But is this what the whole of the Niger Delta is advocating for? I told you the position of the Niger Delta. What we wanted was 10%. That's why I call this, I do not know if I'm not making my delta as a medium term measure. Like you rightly said, the bill took 20 years over for us to have it passed finally. And all this wire will be making representation, but it fell on decades. So let's have what we have now and go on. Okay, let me go to Dr Mayday. Dr Mayday, you are a commissioner in your state, and I know that there's been quick pressure for this bill to have been passed as quickly as possible, especially with the outrage in the Niger Delta right now. Why do you stand on the fact that 30% is not going to be allocated to the all-producing communities? I'm taking you back to the fact that we have had militancy as a result of the fact that all of the moneys that have gotten from all production in the Niger Delta does not reflect in the lives of the communities in those all-producing areas. We also, I'd like to point you to the fact that we have the Oguni Speel that the presidency campaigned upon and promised that there was going to be a cleanup. Now, if there was some form of responsibility from the government, we probably would still not be talking about the oil speel or the Oguni cleanup. How does this generally make you feel? Well, it's unfortunate that it makes me feel very, very disappointing because we actually made a lot of effort to see what we can do to add value to this bill to make sense so that this bill can actually add value to the Niger Delta. But unfortunately, all the effort we made seemed to fall on deaf ears because we made a very beautiful presentation as an instinct with the National Assembly and I know that both the host communities, respective Niger Delta states, made the effort to see what we can do to get a better deal for our people. Unfortunately, the bill so passed is very, very disappointing and very, very great disappointment to our people. The essence is that everything that has to do with federal government is traded in high level of politicking as well as high level of bureaucracy. You see, the 10% that we asked for was what was already offered us before now. The previous bill that came out, we were offered 10% and so we were not asking too much when we asked for 10%. They actually proposed 2.5% and we asked for 10%. Now out of 10% and 2.5%, they gave us 3%. That's an insult, not just to the oil producing states, but to the oil producing communities and to the whole of the Niger Delta. That's the golden egg that is kicking the golden egg for this country. If there's no Niger Delta today, there will be no Nigeria Revenue, about 80% of the revenue that is sustained in this country is coming from here. So I think that this would have been a better opportunity to right the wrongs by offering the best to the states as well as the oil producing states. Doctor Mady, I'm sorry, let me just come in there. You and the Pandemans have continuously said that all your calls have fallen on deaf ears. But what does this say about the members that are representing those communities on the floor of the National Assembly? These are people who are supposed to be representing your people. These are the people who understand the plies of the people in the Niger Delta and in these oil producing communities, especially the likes of the Ogooni communities. What does this say about them? Because there are people who have said that our members of our National Assembly are there to serve themselves and not necessarily the people. Shouldn't this have been a better time for them to show that selflessness in the passage of this bill and the percentage that all communities were asking for? You see, when you talk about the people representing us, I like to ask, how many are there in terms of the other regions in Nigeria? How many from other regions and how many from the Niger Delta? You see, the imbalance that characterises the structure of the country is where the problem is coming from. Because whatever you take to the National Assembly, in as much as those from the other regions are not benefiting better, then our people are so changed. That is the reality of the situation. And this is where we find ourselves. I know they may have done their very best because I know when we did the presentation, we had all their support. They gave us all the support we needed. We did the presentation as brilliant as the presentations would be. But unfortunately, what they passed did not make any representation, does not show that there was even a public hearing. Because I cannot see a situation where 10% was asked for. Out of the 10% that were asked for, only 0.5% was recognized from the 10%. Because whether you like it or not, what they gave to us is 0.5%. Because they offered 2.5% before and then we asked for 10%. So I think before that woman is not sensitive with our client. They are not sensitive with the situation of the Niger Delta. They are not sensitive with our state. So we are very, very worried and we are not happy about this. And I don't know what can remedy this. Because in the situation and the circumstances where we find ourselves, it means that the Nigerian state does not recognize the Niger Delta. Neither do they recognize the state where we are. You talked about you coming up the other time. Let me tell you, I was part of that program. And if you look at the high level of bureaucracy and retipism that is characterized by that program, that is why it is not making any progress. In fact, the last appointment that was done was characterized by high politicization. Those who are in the Senate, those who are in the ministry, decided those who represent the Ugoni communities, no longer the Ugoni people. So you can see that kind of situation. What do you expect? You expect people that government is giving, because when they appoint you, you are bound now to be responsible to them. So that is the reality of it. Our people did their very best. But unfortunately, how many are being in the National Assembly to be able to stand against the higher number of the other people from the other regions for which they feel that this bill does not concern them. Let me declare that the piece of the Niger Delta is important for whatever revenue that any of them takes in this country. OK, you almost took my next question. But back to Mr Okorote. Now, an elder statement from the Niger Delta extraction, chief Edwin Clack has called this particular bill satanic and unjust, saying that all companies may be stopped from their production activities if the percentage allocated to the all communities isn't reviewed upwards. How will this happen? Because this sounds like a threat and also sounds more like a warning. If PANDAF is supporting this statement by the elder statement, what does this mean for the all producing communities and of course the IOCs in these parts? Well, it means that... Oh dear, I think that we're having connection issues with Dr Okorote. So quickly, wrapping up things, Dr Mayday, would you want to quickly, just in a few sentences, wrap this up for us? Yes, I think I have more things to say on this. We don't have time, so quickly. There's another aspect of this bill that is also very annoying. A situation where you are talking about, beside the three pieces of issues, a situation where you are now saying that you take 30% of this form or the profit to take to look for oil in other parts of the country. That's another very annoying part of this bill. Well, like we are saying, when you talk of 3% of what? Is it 3% of profit? And if it is 3% of profit, then that is a greater slap to us than anything anybody can talk about. Because what we think is appropriate, is it 3% of equity representation or equity participation or that 3% of profit? If it is 3% of profit, then it means that we are totally enslaved to the IOC because they determine the cost of production, they also determine the revenue, and they also determine the profit because revenue minus cost is equal to profit. So a situation where they determine all this, then it means that we are at the back and come to see that whatever they give to us will even be what will be the 3%. Well, this is a conversation that we must have again and again until we make something of it. But I want to say thank you very much. Thompson de Corotier is the Deputy National Chairman Pandeff and Dr Peter Mayday is the Riverside Commissioner for Energy and Natural Resources. Thank you very much for being part of the conversation. Well, we'll take a quick break. When we come back, I will give you my take. Well, here's my take. It's pretty short. I do not know if we're really ready to take Nigeria from where it is to where we want it to be. We keep talking about these issues every day. It seems like we even are tired of having these conversations because they have become mere talk and no action to back it up. So I'm asking you who's watching me, you the average Nigerian, are you really ready to change the cause of Nigeria today to take it to a better place? Do we really want change in this country? And I'm not just asking you the average Nigerian. I want you to ask your leaders. The person, I mean, I'm talking about your local government chairman, the councillor in your ward. I'm talking about every person that you point to as a leader who seems to be leading you or representing you. Are we really ready? Is there a concerted effort for us to move this country to where we want it to be? Because if we are ready, we will stop having conversations and start acting. But until then, this is where we are going to continuously be, going around in circles and hoping for the best. You can't keep doing the same thing the same way, hoping for a different response. We need to change tactics and we need to start doing that right away. I'm Marianna Cymru. Thank you all for being part of the conversation. I'll see you tomorrow. Have a good evening.