 All right, welcome back, it is still the run-up and we're starting off with the PDP. The crisis within the People's Democratic Party has continued to deteriorate with the G5 governors of the party declaring to support a southern candidate for the 2023 presidential election in Nigeria. And the two major contenders in the election who are from the south are Bola Tinubu of the ruling All Progressives Congress, APC, and Pitao B of the Labor Party. The stance of the G5 has complicated the challenges faced by the PDP presidential candidate, Atikua Bubaka, who has been struggling to bring back the party fold, you know. At the Breakeway Group, which is led by the defeated PDP presidential aspirant, Nyesumweke, who is also the governor of River State. The other G5 members are Governor Samuel Ohtom of Benway State, Ifan Yuguanyu of Enugu State, Sheyma Kinde of Oyo, and Okizye Iqbalzo of Abia State. And the... The odds are stacked against the PDP and they are the highest level and the presidential elections are staggering from its loftiest place as the ruling party in Nigeria's return to democracy and 16 years of unbroken domination of the party politics at the center of power. There was a time when parties always regard themselves with stories of how they were too big to be bitten and how they were going to be in power in Nigeria for 60 years at least. Today we'll be discussing the scrabble for ongoing or the war, ongoing war between the G5 and the presidential candidate of the PDP and the possible effect it will have on the coming presidential election. And joining us to discuss this is Charlie Agbo, a lawyer and a PDP chief team. Hello and welcome to the program, Agbo. Yeah, thank you very much. Okay, we had expected that by this time the problem between the G5 and the presidential or all the PDP, let me not even say the presidential candidate, the G5 and the PDP would have been resolved. Why are we taking baby steps up to this moment? I would say there is nothing really extraordinary about this. It is the character of politics. You know that would give a timeline of disagreement, political disagreement. One will expect that this as natural and as ordinary as one would abnormally think that these skirmishes are, all the players will recognize the importance of racing up to be able to contend with the project at hand, which is the plodging of the government of all people's Congress. I think it's a very important assignment to perform. Undercut by the fact that the party is actually the opposing party. That being the case, there are some advantages, ordinarily it will have, if it were incumbent, which it does not have currently. And therefore one will expect that it should be prepared to be able to deal with the massive project at hand. Having said that, I will actually believe that the problems, these skirmishes will ultimately come to an end. It is the nature of these things. Both parties are exerting themselves to see who is going to blink first. On both sides, there are arguments. The G5 are saying that they expect some balancing in terms of residency of certain positions, particularly the chairmanship. So when you look at the chairman is coming from the nut, the presidential candidate is coming from the nut. And then on to the other day, the chairman of the Board of Trustees was also coming from the nut until that was rectified. Just not quite long ago. So you could see there are issues that actually are on the table for determination. I will say that it behoves the leadership of the party to be fast enough in understanding the importance of time. Time is extremely of the essence materially now. We are looking at an election that will happen barely in the next two and a half months or so. I think the time to resolve this conflict is now. No matter what the underlying factors are, we appreciate the sentiments of the warden in interest. But I think it is the time to play the interest for the party and the larger interest of the country at last. So I'm going to be admonishing those directly and indirectly involved to shoot their thoughts so that we can move the party forward. But how would you describe the role played by the presidential candidate himself? Because, yes, it is a PDP thing. It's a party thing as a whole. But the person who is involved is the leader of the party, the chairman of the party. And if he's not ready to relinquish power, the only other person that could have spoken sense to the two warring parties should have been the presidential candidate. And a lot of people have used this to say that if he cannot resolve internal conflict within his party, then resolving internal conflicts or conflicts in a whole polity like Nigeria will be a difficult thing. And that is a minus to him. So how would you rate his level of involvement and his level of his strategy in resolving this whole issue? Now, it is very important that the dramatist person do not fall into some kind of mischief of the internal conflict that would be operationed by misperceptions if I have to put it that way. It is possible to assume that the reason Wike is pushing forward with what he is doing is more like kind of a statement. It's possible to assume that because it's not on the banner plot for him as well, whatever it is, they'll pull it down. So far as I'm not on the ballot, well, of course, to be tantalizingly, possibly in inviting to look at that underlying perspective, these are all political things that go with so much of Shenanigans. You see, for them that would be extremely unpatriotic if that were what is powering a Wike's interest. And I think it is also under some really higher expectation in terms of his application to the party in this regard and particularly encountering the notion that because he lost the election, that he's not on the ballot that he is powering on with no position for the exit of IU. But I think it's a little bit of a very difficult question. Wherever you have positions that are taken by those who are part of any conflict, something is there. I'm not going to be saying that the presidential candidate ought not to be shifting his ground. I expect him to be shifting his ground. But the command is that shifting his ground is predicated on the exit of Wike. And I think on the diplomatic table, it is important that people understand the importance of dialectics. There has to be given, given take. You know, you have to be able to give before you take it. So I expect both parties to be able to find a middle cost to give and to take. Is it possible that it must not be ultimately that IU exits that this conflict is resolved? If you look at it, the election is not about two months, three months old. I mean, not away. If we talk about a larger entity, unless it was basically a symbolic property, I would say, let's just let him stay. The elections are just here. I think he has a record to have said that he was not resigning in favor of that election. So in the next two, three months, we expect him to exit. Is it that with the proposal that we brought to the table? In terms of the following the aspect of dialectics I'm talking about, the give and take that I'm talking about here. Then on the other side, if one could as well say, what is it so special IU must be there? Even if it is that it is anchored on the chiefs that IU was seen to have been attracted in one or two other candidates, no. Well, whatever it is, there will always be a basis for which there is a conflict. And the most important thing is, as far as I am concerned, look, let us look at the larger interests of the people, the larger interests of the party. And so on the basis of which we say, look, IU, why don't you just throw in the towel? It's not about you. It's not about we. It is about Nigerians. It's about all of us. It's about the collective entrism of the people of this country, or whichever way. Incidentally, I know that a lot of judges, a lot of talking has been going on in this respect. I will expect that we should be approaching the time units of all the efforts to work brokering a reality that can manageable truth in this respect. All of those who are consensual understand that the moment for this is now. So I'm not going to blame anyone. I don't have all the facts, but I make my basic assumptions on the strength of what I assume those snipers want to glean. So in this respect, because when the person is right or wrong, to the extent that I don't have all the facts, I may not be able to determine who is right or wrong. And in any case, if you believe that I'm useful, that is about just an opinion. So that is as far as it can go. And I think it's important that we help to posit at this point. All right. You've mentioned a lot of points, actually. And then one of the things that you said is how that it's about interest. I mean, it's party politics. And of course, people join political parties because of ideologies and interests. And he also mentioned how that the candidate is here, Vatiku Abubaka, is costing a lot of chaos and that is premised on how that Wike was an aspirant and he didn't work out for him. And people are saying that is why he's been very difficult. But then Wike has come out to say that he has no problem with anybody's candidacy, that the interest of the South is what he has at heart. And then let's not hang it on Wike alone. I mean, there are up to six other governors who are in this G5, who are also expressing the same views as Wike. So if we want to say it is party politics and you want to look at the greater good of the party and the country at large, why is it looking like it's people from a certain region that are aggrieved and it's almost as if the party is expecting them to play along because it's party politics, because it is a greater interest. Why haven't we had a concrete meeting set out for the purpose of settling this particular issue? His Excellency is supposed to be in Anambra today. I'm sure he would have arrived by now. Atikua Buubaka, that is the Southeast Nigeria and up to four governors from the Southeast are among the G5 governors. How do you think this is going to play out? I mean, he's in the East for campaigns and everything and he's not in good terms, or they are not in good terms. How do you think that is going to play out? Well, I'll tell you, the current, the fallout from my colleague, the counterfeit, it is not possible for him to, actually do politics with that confidence. You know, it's the nature of this business and as in convenience, as you may see, they still find a way to tag along. You see, politics is not exactly like a cup of tea. It's quite engaging, many may assume that because those are who were involved on the land lights that it's all rosy. Now, a lot of underlying elements in politics that makes it, actually politics is a very, very difficult thing to engage in. So, we recognize that they have that vision to contend with. But they also recognize the importance of the moment. These campaigns are here. Okay, so it is expected that there will be, you know, speaking with one boy and there are body languages with no discordant. So as not to send wrong signals to the electorate that are intending to woo, aha, I recognize that fact. But the point I'm making is that it is not always convenient. The issues involved in the power game are not always very convenient things. So, inconvenience is part of it. And then when you confront such circumstances, well, of course, you recognize, you know, that there is a duty to perform. And that is why all of those who are on the line those who are supposed to be part of what is going on as expected to be there. It is part of the internal conflicts that, you know, that characterizes politics. It's not a perfect situation. But it goes on. Don't forget this about interests. You know, whereas the party has a larger interest of the country, there are internal issues. The dynamics that shape, you know, the configuration of, you know, of tendency in the party because it's a human factor. You know, it's a conflict between interests. You know, several individuals will have to cross it out to be able to harmonize with children at a position that they can present ultimately. So, you have this difficulty. But all I'm trying to say is that there is nothing unusual about that, of course. There isn't a claim that we haven't, you know, under the configuration or the coloration of politics. You know, the character of this business, you know, all of that. But one thing I know, you will not be surprised to find out that all of this will still end, you know, in a harmonized position in the fullness of time. It is the nature of politics. I don't see anything extraordinary about it. But I bother about time, you know, for whatever reason. It is time to really begin to put a, you know, I mean to harmonize their position and present a common friend from so that we don't have conflicted signals. You know, you don't have to confuse the message. It is important that Nigerians understand that the party is coming as one united, you know, organization, that one united family. You know, and not to allow, you know, a spillover of his own internal conflicts, you know, to affect his capacity to govern when ultimately he wins power. You know, do you understand? So in that context, I am expecting that ultimately this matter will be resolved. Those dramas you witness are parts of conflicts. Yes. And they come in various forms. And it's not a Nigerian phenomenon. And it's not a PPP phenomenon. It is the phenomenon of the character of politics, the world over. So it largely will come to an end. But my own position is that the moment for it to come to an end is now. How, how, you know, the question is, how does the party intend to bring it to an end? The G5 sometime ago, I think it was sometime in October, they had a meeting and part of what they were saying is how that they are not going to be intimidated. And that has been a very tiny, but important part of the conversations they've been having. How that, first of all, this 2023 elections, presidential elections were supposed to go to the South. And how that the PDP in all their wisdom thought that it was okay to hand it over to the North, you know, to vie for the seat. And then the G5 governors being from the South, feeling like the party because they think, you know, they have all it takes, all it takes to appoint or to, you know, support who they want for the seat of the presidency, that the G5 probably being a minute part of the party is supposed to string along and play along. And that, you know, feels the part of the conversation that leads it towards intimidation. Do you think this is what it is? And then you mentioned the time factor. This conversation has lingered and all of a sudden, the presidential candidate has sought it worthy to finally come to the Southeast. Do you think that there is, you know, a political will even to use that word? Or do you think that this coming to the East is actually to bring this to an end? Or is it also another, you know, ploy to coerce the G5 governors to also play along as we've seen so far? No, I don't really think that he is trying to coerce the G5 governors. No, it's not about coercion. You see, this thing is pretty catered on the couple of positions that may be a little difficult, depending on the type of the, you know, or the type of, in which you are. You see, there was the permutation. And there is still that permutation, you know, that it's supposed to be anchored on the politic, you know, that the winning perspective, as far as the election is concerned and the material time is going to be the amount. If you remember, there was some delays between the two parties, you know, playing this game and determining, allowing them quite, the order to take a position first, you know, before the party decides to take on you and stuff like that. Between the two parties, you can tell them political parties. You see, I don't think it's about coercion. The G5 governors are talking about equity. That position is clear. The reference, if I may, you know, to the extent that I expect that it recognizes that some individuals may be saying that because it's not on the ballot, but as far as this concern, because as well through the baby, I won't be backward. You have, you know, and stuff like that. I was like trying to get him to understand he has a higher take, because if it were that he was not a candidate, I mean, an aspirant, okay, it would have been, they had a better and lean way to be able to take any position it takes. But then he's constrained by these circumstances, by this possibility of misperception, you know, in terms of his full intention, you know, to, he's constrained actually to take, you know, to go the extra mile in trying to, you know, get the matter resolved. It should be more like, look, I recognize the fact that I was an aspirant, but I have a larger interest. I'm, you know, I'm propagating the interest of the South, or not just in terms of the South is, or the South, I'm propagating, you know, equity as an underlying factor, as a pillar, you know, equity as a pillar, you know, of justice and equity as a foundation of politics. Do you understand? So if it's important that he recognizes that there are, he has more on the shoulders, you know, than others who did not contest it. And therefore, he or she will be seen to be more attracted in finding ways around this problem. It is in that context that I made the most references. But I also recognize the fact that in independent of that, and I will wish that we are not part of his own reasoning, they have a right to not, to be bothered about the fact that for so many years, that, you know, the residence of, the residence of power, you know, is moving from point A to the same point. It is ordinarily expected that, you know, at the every individual, I will respect the power who have to shift to the South. There isn't a doubt about it. As a matter of fact, it's part of the PDP constitution. You know, the issue is the extent to which these very strict positions, you know, can linger without a resolution. But as far as I am concerned, I'm definitely about the fact that those people who are propagating the Southern presidency are standing on the part of equity, are standing on the part of justice, and they have a right to their point of view. So when you talk about how I'm twisting, you know, I wouldn't say that people would try a thing like that to go to a number, to twist anybody. I wouldn't think about that. I wouldn't think that is the position at all. And in an old warhorse, he has been around for so long. And therefore I expect that that element will rub off on the way that he goes about resolving this problem. Do you understand? So I stand on the positive side, you know, and I'm also standing on the side of history. I'm standing on the side of political history or the politics or the history of politics. And I am definite that just like every other conflict that we've had in the formation or in nominations, you know, or even in conflict, generally, you know, involving, you know, sharing of positions and all that, will eventually, since they have all been resolved in the past, this will also invariably pull up the same pattern. And at the end of the day, a lot of people would actually be wondering why they got involved because it will be more like, is this how this ultimately ends? Yeah, but many have not learned their lessons. And that's why they get too quick in holding on to this position. But if you are amazed at the end of the day, how this matter will be resolved. Well, it's not really looking good for the PDP, whatever is happening right now. Because, okay, yes, granted, Wike was on the ballot and he lost. It's like you getting a mate for your house. She can never become the madam or the landlord or whatever it is. But you don't disgrace a mate out of your house without paying and all that. If that mate knows your dirty secrets as it were. Because those secrets will come out. They will be spilled somewhere. That's what I'm seeing Wike to be. And the fact that the PDP doesn't seem to be playing nice, there seem to be just letting things go, speaks to some kind of arrogance, which a lot of people have described the PDP, especially in the past when they were boasting that they are going to rule this country for over 60 years and more. Like, nothing, they happen, like we say in Nigeria. But you see, these things are not looking good for the PDP. Especially when, even after you said that it is in your constitution that power should be rotated, it didn't look like PDP was ready to respect that again. And the power went to the not. Yeah, we know that the last person that ruled was from the South in the PDP. But even if this were to be a verbal agreement, I know countries that have been ruled for years with a verbal constitution and on written constitution. So that's not an excuse. So how are things looking generally for the PDP? From this other side, a lot of people are seeing it like it's looking really bad for the PDP. What gives you confidence that you can even stroll into 2023 and make a mark at all, let alone winning as a party? Yes, you see, I wouldn't say the current conflicts has all of the problems that the PDP has. No, conflict is a part of the business. My own concern is just time. But I recognize the fact that conflicts are never palatable. Like you want to look at it as being party not specials for the party, it could be. You see, but I am resting on the antecedent of political conflicts over time in this trade. And I saw when you imagine that it's going to maroon the party, a resolution comes. So I'm very dead certain that this matter will be resolved. I know my own border is just time. The party is well positioned to rest power from all people's Congress. Of course, you don't expect that anyone is right-sensitive to propagating the APC. You know, if we really look at it, talking about our exchange rate alone is enough to invalidate the party. The party on its own is on its own. But the threat may not resist really come from the APC. I mean, over the years, we've had just like, okay, two parties contending for the position of whatever it is. Now, there seem to be a third and fourth force as it is. Because whether we like it or not is not only the APC and PDP that are talking right now. There are other people who are really promising. And Nigerians seem to be tired with the status quo, with the establishment, with the people who have always been there. So while PDP is fighting with the APC, there are others that are springing up equally making waves. So you cannot really say that you want to rest power from the APC. What about the other parties that are also trying to make sure that both the PDP and the APC do not even find anything in 2023? They are also there. You cannot just write them off. No, that is the incumbent party. Okay, now if you have 50 parties trying to rest power from the incumbent party, there is just one incumbent party. You don't have to, I mean, there are so many of these names. They are not incumbent. We are looking at the government in power. But talking about the government, you can't rest power from a party that is not holding it. Do you understand? Okay, so they are not in view at all. They are not in view at all. And then when you talk about some of these other policies, there are a lot of these tendencies. Well, you see, the point is that the PDP is so capricious. It's so eager to be able to deal with some of these issues as they come. I want to talk about, you know, mushrooming interests. There are some small political parties in some of the regions. I don't want to mention their names. And then, of course, you don't want to aggregate an answer from public tendencies. Okay, the point is that you can be looking at them when you have an incumbent. The incumbent is there for the all-progressive Congress. And as far as we are concerned, that ordinarily we even expect the party to disqualify itself. In fact, a lot of that, the parade of Congresses have taken this country regarding our exchange rate. It's a check. It's unbelievable. It's unprecedented. And it is possible, really one will expect that it is possible that a political party like that, DC, who is throwing the towel and say, we are not going to part of it anymore. We are failed. So, hopefully. But the point I'm making is, for PDP, we are not going to arrest victory, you know, to wangle defeat from the jaws of victory. You know, because victory is just there to be hanged. There has been a new ballot political party that has no basis, whatever, to contend at all. At all, the party is at the best moment to reclaim power. And in the circumstances, it will be ideal that these conflicts do not come on the way at all. It's a momentous period that we are back to coast to victory on account of the absolute incompetence of the party in power. And so I see nothing stopping it. And so the shimmering, the expectation there, you know, the horizon is looking so good in the circumstances, you know, that nothing can stop the party, you know, from plucking power away from the post-Congress. You look at even the, some of the elements coming up, a political party that can't even, you know, be part of the conventional civil discussion. When conversations are going on regarding the how, the political party is found missing. It tells you how unprepared this party is. The party, you know, cannot be part of what you are doing for instance. The party cannot be part of an organized debate. You see a party that is hiding from its own self. So in the circumstances, dislodging that party looks, you know, the most auspicious at the moment. And this is for this reason that I will expect that the people from the party should be able to put his house in order to take advantage of this extraordinary opportunity. I don't know because, sorry, because the incumbent right now, I don't remember any time where he attended a political debate yet Nigerians voted for him. Maybe because of other circumstances which could also play here. And I'm not saying that you are resting power. You're trying to take power from the other political parties, but you are just one of them trying to take power from the incumbent. So the race is stiff. And I don't know how you can write off the thing, the fact that people are seeing the PDP as being so incompetent of resolving internal issues that when they come into power in the country that he's divided along so many lines, religious, political, ethnic, whatever lines, so many lines now. And you're saying they're going to coast to power. That's the same language that PDP used in 2015 and power was taken away from them. That's the same kind of way that we were hearing in 2019 as power still didn't come to the PDP. And now internal conflict has taken five governors. Just the way five governors were taken from the PDP prior to 2015 and the lost election. And now five governors are taken from the PDP again and they don't even have the power of incumbency. So I'm just wondering, I'm just wondering how it's looking for the PDP. I hope that you are going to put your house down. Not in gloomy at all, not in gloomy. It's all part of this business like I told you. Politics is not about two plus two is four. You understand? Oh yes. And when you talk about glooting, it is also a part of politics. There is no political party that does not take pride in its capacity in the same power. There's no political party that will tell you it's going to lose power upon its own motion. So, you know, a chess business is part of it. It means it corrects your capacity to imagine what actually, how you can actually deal with your opposition. So it's not really your usual. It will be that because PDP said they were going to stay in power for 60 years or 50 years, that was the reason the party lost power. No, the party lost power through some strategic miscalculation. As far as I am concerned, it had no reason to lose power at all. But it made it all a learning process and then the party is in a better position with the fact of this post-mortem to determine what happened yesterday in projecting how it is going to move ahead for tomorrow. You know, it may be written really little difficult, but like I said, it's all part of it. This is politics. And I mean, insofar as it is about human beings, there ain't no way that there will be solutions. And I just say, I predict very concretely, we are going to have a united house to confront this election. There's no question about it. Don't be bothered about it. Yeah, don't be bothered about it. All right. Thank you so much, Dr. Chalia Bo for sharing your views with us this morning on the run-up. We really appreciate it. Thank you so much for coming up. Thank you very much. Okay. This is where this segment ends. Yeah, well. It is really heated. I really wish that political parties in this present dispensation, I mean, whatever your political party is, or whatever your flag is, I wish that politicians would understand that arrogance would take them nowhere at this point. I mean, if you've been following the trend of what has been playing out in the political space of Nigeria from two years ago, in fact, yeah, from two years ago, from say three years, 2020, in fact, from after the end-sales protests down to this point. If you've been following the trend of things happening, you would know that as a politician, as a political party, you need to be on the side of the people. They need to love you genuinely and you need to have what they are looking for to get that love. I wish PDP would climb down from that. Any other political party, by the way. Yes, but for the reason of this conversation that we're having today, it's about the G5 and the PDP. I really wish that the PDP as a whole would climb down from their high horse and have this conversation with the G5. Yeah, because they need to know that, like he said, it was political miscalculations that led them there. That could have come because of overconfidence in themselves that, okay, we have all the structures, we have all the apparatus, we have everything. And that translates to arrogance that, okay, maybe for us that are not politicians, we see it as arrogance. But I am going to be the one to vote. It is the vote of the people who not necessarily call themselves politicians that makes whoever calls himself a politician to be relevant in any office that... I mean, and the house divided among itself cannot stand. You have a very huge project as big as the presidential seat of a country as big as Nigeria. In front of you. And you're like trading words. Yeah. It's like you're trying to have a relationship. If you are having a relationship, just to say, I'm sorry, I know I was wrong. It goes a long way rather than saying, because I have a lot of money, my wife will always be my wife. Even if I wrong her, I will just give her money. That's what it is. But should I give you your wife's money? It's important. All right, this is where we take a quick break. The news will come up at noon. And after the news, we will return with another very interesting and packed topic. They're not going anywhere. The run-up will return in a bit. Stay with us.