 at Manly Beach. It's 5.26 p.m. Sunday afternoon here and a few hours ago on my long walk about I saw that Donald Trump is being reinstated to Twitter. So I think without a doubt Twitter is going to be a much more interesting place with Donald Trump in it. And even Richard Spencer who's been just overwhelmingly critical about Trump for the past three years, he's setting to sympathize with Donald Trump again because the GOP establishment has turned so decisively against Trump. If you're gonna get Richard's latest insights, I must warn you the priced or monthly subscription to his sub-stack, which is jam-packed with content, is now $9. I actually did, just to let you guys know, I actually did increase the monthly rate to $9. I got six was good for a while, but we have gotten me, I'm really happy with sub-stack. I kind of wanted to go a little low because I wasn't a couple of things. I thought that there was a decent chance that I would get kicked off because you know I'm on Twitter, I don't think I'm gonna get kicked off Twitter. 99% sure. I was kicked off YouTube for no good reason. So yeah, the smarter you are, the better the chances are that you'll learn to play within the rules. So Richard Spencer, whatever your criticisms of him, a pretty smart guy, he's learning to color between the lines, play within the rules. And so I was just a little bit tentative because I had heard the kind of core of this group that it's growing out of. During 2020 and for in 2021, we just kind of had a kind of like secret sub-stack. And it was people who I had their email address, we kept it there. I didn't do any promotion because we were still just kind of coming out of that era of you know the old riots and blah blah blah and getting deep platform everywhere. So yeah, keep part of Richard Spencer's evolution is he just got tired of getting kicked out of everywhere and kicked off of everything. You get tired when you're living on the margins. You want mainstream respectability once again. I think I've kind of been able to... So Richard's teaching a new class about Plato's allegory of the cave and you can think of his own journey coming out of the cave back into the sunlight of mainstream respectability. People want to be liked. It's a very hard thing to live on the margins day in day out. It can be edgy and exciting for a brief period but really starts to wear on you. I've asked. And I don't think... First off, I'm not doing anything worthy of being deep platformed and then A and then B, I generally do think... I genuinely and generally do think that sub-stack is dedicated to free speech, you know, obviously. And really what I'm focusing on now is just very different. So I think it's all gonna work out. Anyway, it was $9 earlier. Yeah, it's a lot easier to work out when you play within the rules, when you say what is socially acceptable, when you regain respectability. All right? You got in at 6? You got a bargain. But I won't raise it. I will say that. Barring Bimar-style hyperinflation, you know, at which point it will be raised $10 every day. I will not raise that for a while. I think that's just a good kind of solid price. This is a Richard Spencer sub-stack group haul on November 17. I could just sell you guys. So Richard's got a new essay out making the case for banning Alex Jones. He says serial liar like Alex Jones just so degrades the public discourse that we're better off having Alex Jones banned from social media. I've been in Biblin about Alex Jones. He didn't bother me when big social media companies banned him. On the other hand, I'm not as sure as Richard Spencer that it's a good thing. I'm just neutral on it. I mean, it is kind of like this horrifying reserve for the first incentive where I'm trying to sell you guys like discussion courses on Dustbox Arthustra. And then if I were selling you guys dick pills, like we would be making hundreds of options, it's pretty depressing. It's only depressing if you have a misguided view of human nature. And if you have a realistic understanding of yourself and of other people, it's not so depressing. I think I also have a different sense of Alex Jones does, but hopefully. Generally speaking, I feel this kind of weird feeling right now of almost being sympathetic towards Trump again. So when everyone else on the right wing side is against Trump, when the right wing news media is turned against Trump in addition to the mainstream media where Trump is just getting kicked and denied and degraded and debased by everyone, then Richard the Contrarian is feeling a strange due respect for Donald Trump. Because he is so hated by the establishment. And so I almost have this Republican establishment, the true conservatives, the Knax. And I almost have this Pavlovian response to actually support him when he's being attacked by these people or dismissed or ignored and so on. But he is in pretty much the exact place where he was in 2015, which is basically being dismissed and ignored by the mainstream conservative establishment, including Fox News, and being denounced in some quarters. And yet kind of sticking to his guns and doing it. I have to say I've hated Trump for a while, but I kind of have a certain sympathy for him when he's in this position. It's a weird feeling, to be honest. It's not so weird, Richard. But as I said, it's not such a weird feeling, Richard. You're a Contrarian, right? No worries, mate. We understand that we're not going to come out with the same perspective as everyone else. So I think not so strange why it's only sympathetic to Trump. I just based on this, I put up a 45 minute monologue that I did that you guys can listen to the other time. But I do think it's a very different time than 2015. Because in 2015, he was able to define himself so boldly with the bill the wall and, you know, Mexicans are rapists. I mean, there was just this craziness right out at the gate of his campaign in 2015. And I just found his speech the other night just so remarkable for how boring it was. It was just a mainstream Republican speech with a few, you know, hot side items thrown into the mix, like we're going to execute drug dealers or something. But even though I do imagine that that... Yeah, does Trump have the energy, the enthusiasm, the joy to run again? That's not evident. It takes a tremendous amount of energy to run for president. Generate a stir among his base. It just doesn't have the kind of central mobilizing quality of bill the wall under the Mexicans are rapists and stuff like that. So anyway, I guess you can tell, I just have a lot of ignorance about where things are at the moment. But my general thesis is that the Trump campaign has always been this kind of upside-down campaign. And that it's always relied on craziness. And absent that diagnosing quality, all your, like, all Trump is left with nothing. And the GOP is basically what... Okay, so when the left controls the cultural means of production and the left controls almost all of our institutions, revolt against an enemy who seems to control everything, right, that's going to seem crazy. You're not going to necessarily do that coolly, calmly, rationally, and moderately. That kind of revolution is going to contain a considerable element of the crazy. With foreign candidates and policies that are just clearly unpopular, you know, the GOP is left with, we won't cancel $10,000 of your student loans. And we... No, the main argument for voting for the GOP is to lock criminals up, to be tougher on criminals, lock them away, thereby reducing crime rates. Second main argument for voting for GOP is that we're going to enforce border law. Again, a restrict immigration, both legal and illegal, as Donald Trump very successfully did by the 2020. So those are the first two primary reasons for voting for the GOP and three is to resist the war of woke culture. So there are three main reasons for voting GOP. Full ban abortion. And we will offer tax cuts and stuff like that. That's what they're left with. And with Trump, you know, you keep rings to the party the craziness of bill the wall, the alt-right, white nationalism, and then all of this morphing into COVID conspiracies and and so on. No, with Trump, you get a lot of real talk, right? That's the advantage with Trump, right? You get some real talk. You get a level of honesty that is, you know, pretty rare among politicians. Yeah, that's what I figured. I mean, I guess like one of the things you do, it never flies. I think it's because the ship's already sailed kind of thing. But I mean, you could, like, I don't know, anybody that's not anti-depressants or whatever, you're just like, okay, well, like we just, you can't breathe, but I don't know, short of forcing some, I mean, really, like that's kind of what it doesn't ultimately solve the issue. The issue is that, like, it's too easy to be alive. Yeah, you know, and also the, I mean, I know you were joking when you said, it's terrible, it's everyone anti-depressant, but also the issue is like over-dyed noses. And just, you know, you live in the modern world and it kind of makes you unhappy. And the fact that one of the things is that depressed people, well, if we lived in a more traditional society, I suspect that people would not be as unhappy. And I think a lot of the unhappiness, disconnection, mental illness is a result of people being disconnected from family, normal human connection, the community, which is something that's a lot easier to do when you don't have this vast array of civil rights laws, they're restricting basic freedoms. I don't know if there are any answers to this. I mean, I think it's a real thing. But I don't know. I mean, it's one of the reasons why I kind of made this shift. I mean, I've, you know, Mark Bram and I, but the main reason Richard made this shift is because he wants you know, respectability, he's tired of being hated. But here he explains why he's not doing shows with Ed Dutton anymore. And instead he's doing shows with Mark Bram. Now I miss Ed Dutton. I prefer that realist approach. I don't get any benefit from Mark Bramman, but doing shows with Mark Bramman is essentially escape into a fantasy world. So some people like Game of Thrones, right? Some people like fantasy entertainment. Richard likes fantasy, right? He likes fantasies that he and Mark create. I don't get anything from him. I don't see the benefit of retreating to this fantastical, unreal, imaginary world that's so entranced Richard and Mark Bram. Been friends for a long time. Ever since he, you know, I published his first articles at Radix Journal, like, you know, Radix is alive again, but I published it a while ago. And more than a decade. And I do think that, like, what we're working on does offer solutions to things. And I do think the kind of, like, HPD stuff. So Richard says that what he and Mark are working on offers solutions. He's talking to you about Apolloism. So, you know, what exactly does Apolloism offer? It's just, you know, awarded down more socially acceptable form of Nazi ideology. Seriously, what problems does Apolloism answer? Realism better requests people for life because you are placing them in reality. You're describing reality to them. So they are less likely to be disconnected from reality. It's important, but it does become rather depressing, doesn't it? It only becomes depressing if you are out of touch with reality, the reality inside you or the reality outside of you. But reality is not inherently depressing. Like, no, the truth, the truth will set you free. Like, reality is the beginning of wisdom. Reality is the beginning of effectiveness. Like, getting in touch with reality means becoming humble, right? You gain an appropriate understanding of where you stand vis-a-vis other people, right? But I don't think Richard wants to stay in reality. He wants to live in a world of fantasy. Mark Raman gives him this opportunity. Oh, yeah, I'm not particularly, you know, happy reading this. This is not like bedtime. So material can be awesome and great and important. There's not necessarily the stuff you want to read before you go to bed, right? So just because you don't want to read it before you go to bed doesn't mean that it's not important. Well, how about just becoming more exact and more precise about the nature of the truth, nature of reality, right? Rather than, you know, trying to offer these grand, you know, top-down, Germanic theories. Richard's very much kind of in the vein of German philosophy, French and German thinkers, they loved grand theories, right? They loved to propound grand theories and they're pretty weak on evidence and empiricism. Now, in the Anglo tradition, all right, the English tradition is much more empiricist, right? So Anglo scholars will come up with a bunch of empirical findings that tentatively suggest a very modest theory. So French and German intellectuals love grand theories, but these grand theories tend to be, you know, quite disconnected from reality and they're not particularly interested in providing the empirical support of their grand theories. And Richard sounds very much like these continental philosophers as opposed to the Anglos. So it becomes like dwelling on, you know, this inevitable decline of the population or something. And I think it's just, I just want to move away from that. Maybe universal designer babies will be the solution. If you want a genetic white bill, watch the movie, Gatica. The original Ram Paul actually got into hot water. I remember he plagiarized the wicked media article for Gatica. Yeah, just never have any interest in listening to politicians speak or reading what they have to say. It's such a low level of discourse that they offer. You can't have too much socialism. I mean, it's going to be, it's going to be fucking Gatica. All right, let's just take off on that socialism. Yeah, this is totally lame. But whoever wrote that book for him was probably Jack or Hunter. Actually, who used to write for Talking's Magazine. Anyway, I can almost assure you did it, but like, you plagiarized the wicked media. It was a case from the internet. So what's your favorite Ram Paul book? What's your favorite Ron DeSantis book? What's your favorite Donald Trump book? Come on, man. Give me a break. Okay, Richard doesn't want to talk about it because it's socially unacceptable. We'll isolate him and increase the problems that he has to face. So it's fine. You don't have to be a martyr. There's no need to say things that come with a huge social price, but to then intellectualize the issue and say, oh, I want to move towards cultural solutions. Therefore, embracing and polywism instead of realism is a bit hard to take. Problem, and how can we reasonably solve this? Right, like you're saying it's a spiritual problem first. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, again, I don't want to, I keep, so spiritual, I can mean many different things, and there are effective vehicles for a spiritual connection, but there are also a whole bunch of, you know, nonsense that just cloaked themselves as spiritual. So how can you tell the difference between the real thing and the nonsense by the fruits, right? By the behavior of people who embrace these varying forms of spirituality? I don't want to be a divisive drama queen, but and then I just say what I'm about to say. So I had this conversation last night with someone who's a member of this group, actually. Do you ever find yourself prefacing your conversations by saying, I don't want to be a divisive drama queen? I wager that if you need to preface your conversations by saying, I don't want to be divisive drama queen, it may indicate that you have something of a compulsion towards being a divisive drama queen. Or for, oh god, more than a decade as well. And we're both kind of on the same boat. Like, you know, I remember she was there in the making of love stuff. She's been doing a number of amres. I probably haven't had any amres. I went to probably have a dozen or you know, I think we're both kind of like, she was talking to me about it last night. She was talking to me about amres as we went. I'm still out of the loop, but it's just all the same stuff. You know, like they're just saying the same thing over and over again for decades. And it's all just really doomed with the white ring. Okay, so there are forms of social science that are replicable, right? There's certain basic truths that you may see in more and more facets of life, such as the predictive value of IQ scores, right? And it's not as exciting as having new, you know, philosophical and spiritual insights for which there's no necessarily empirical evidence. So often the tried and true and the boring is the most true and the most profound. Traditional American majority doesn't have a chance. It's just this endless doom and gloom. On one level, you don't analyze the situation and really understand what's happening. And on another level, there's just, you're like trying to drain the ocean to them all or something. It's just the way they present the problem. There's just no real hope. I suppose the Greater Idaho Project definitely fell through because they mentioned that a while ago and that seemed like a little bit of who they mentioned out there and moved to Idaho. Yes, yes. That's different. Then it's a step. I doubt Jared will sign off on that actually. So that's actually different. That's actually a different thing, Greater Idaho. Back story to this is Richard feels hurt that Jared Taylor doesn't want him at Amran events, that Jared Taylor doesn't want him to speak for him because Richard embraced Nazism. Because they hail our people, you know, they seek high all of the Nazi talk that Richard embraced. So therefore Richard was pushed away by Jared. That's that's a large part of the story that Richard's not talking about here. Greater Idaho is basically the idea of all of Oregon outside of like more of the surrounding areas surrounding Idaho. And moving to Idaho is part of the Northwest imperative where white nationalists move to the Pacific Northwest area and have the system collapse or win a war against the US and they create a white nationalist burden. Okay. So that's absurd. I'm thinking that these nationalists are going to move to the Northwest and then win a war. Against America or the whole system's going to collapse and they're going to take over. I talk about living in fantasy land. Cuba, that's with the US. Two different things. Give me a question. I don't know if it was important. I'm not saying you support it. I know I know your reference. I think I'm not going to use the last year here. But guys, give me a fucking break. This is, you know, Northwest. I mean, I guess it's ironic that I'm saying this, being that I have actually done and demanded my action. Yeah. So Richard, for years, you know, he was most famous for calling for an ethnic state. All right. By calling for the creation of this exact sort of thing. Now he's disavowing. Guys, it's just not happening. And we don't want that to happen. And like a bunch of white nationalists in Montana taking on the government. Yeah. Like that is a one-way ticket to death. Yeah, I don't I don't know the details of it conflicting with the current government. Am I succeeding from any of that stuff? Maybe you know what they do? Do you know what they do? The assumption that they have, which is just wrong, the same assumption that Russians have, which is that America slash NATO slash the West is gay. And that's yeah, they have a they have a black guy in charge. Yeah, Richard's making a good point here, that there's a lot of dismissal on parts of the distant ride that America and NATO are just gay. Therefore not formidable, just doomed to decadence and decline. And American power like Chinese power, Russian power is relative compared to other nations. And compared to the other major powers, United States of America is in fantastic shape to be even more dominant in the years ahead than it is now. Yeah. Well, Terry, and they have some homosexual in the Marine Corps. So we could just, you know, we could just go out there with our shotguns, baseball bats and kick their ass right. No, I don't. You can't. You can't. I mean, I don't care. Even though I still sympathize with. With them. And of course, I guess all of us have our sympathies with them, but it's like now the dead that is quite sad out there on this fringe of Russia. I don't know. Yeah, but to go back to like the all the stuff. I mean, it's like if we're just lamenting demographics and, you know, I'm not against like seriously talking about demographics or something, but if we're just lamenting demographics, like that's going to be a real sob story. Nobody is endorsing just lamenting demographics, but there are more sophisticated and accurate ways of understanding demographics, right? The white percentage of the population in the United States is vastly underestimated by US Census Bureau methods. So if that's your thing, if that's something you're really interested in, then you should probably become more sophisticated and understand what's really going on. So the way the US Census Bureau works is that if people identify as part Asian or part black or part Latino, all right, they're counted in the US Census as wholly that, right? So someone's one sixteenth black or one sixteenth Asian or one sixteenth Latino and they put down the US Census Bureau that they're, you know, part Asian and part white, the US Census Bureau counts that was 100% Asian. So the white percentage of the population is dramatically undercounted by US Census Bureau figures and the non-white section is dramatically over counted and those Asians blacks and Latinos who live in the United States due to the overwhelming nature of America still being white, they're very likely to marry someone white and therefore have white children. There's just, like, there are really serious problems out there and if you want to make yourself feel bad, you can do that pretty easily with just talking about Democrat. And, you know, I know this might... Yeah, if you talk about them in an ignorant way, I'd notice that many people in distance fears just want to embrace the suck. They just want to embrace how bad everything is. Oh, there's absolutely no hope because I think it lets them off the hook for responsibility, for doing anything with their lives. It just kind of gives them permission to be vile and beastly and disgusting because it's all hopeless. Not almost like cowardly or something. You know, if something is that bad, you kind of have to move off it. And it's just... Okay, if there is grim news, maybe there are just other things in life that you should be focusing on, not just on the grim news. You can face reality and also have room in your life for things that are positive and beautiful and true and good and things that are uplift you rather than things that drag you down. So you can judge what you do by its effect on you. Is it having a good effect on you? Is it making you happier, more effective? Or is it making you a better person? Is it making you more sober or less sober? Endlessly talking. I don't know how to say to do black crime anymore, but just endlessly publishing articles about how white America is being to me or something, it just gets depressing and whole. I don't know. It's just you're living in a graveyard. And it's just not... I don't know. When I was a lot younger, and I sometimes get into this where I judge other people for not going through what I'm not very younger than I am. You should be up to speed with me. But at the same time, I remember, God, my first ever. I think it might have been in 2008 when I was editing Talkies Magazine. I remember it was like, this is so edgy. It's like, everything is taboo. We're just talking about so bad. After a while, when they talk about the same thing over and over, it's just not that bad ass anymore. It's just endless pointing about pretty obvious problems that everyone agrees on. And I do think it's kind of... I don't know. It's just static. I think it's almost unhealthy. Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait. So this is the community that Richard's essentially been exiled from. So maybe you should provide that context. He needs to kind of blow them out of the water or something. So I think the flight needs to be... I don't know, they limit the amount of time opening for an ex-program. It might very well be a good way to make money. I just think that she wasn't asked at that place. But again, we're past all this. And I think we've made it here. Okay, he's not a big fan of Lauren Lema. You can't just pull... I mean, it's just genetic engineered out of it. Yeah, if you wanted to... All right, put your foot on that social. Okay, I got a fast forward here. I lost my face. Did you just not just talk previously talking about demographics or something? We're just lamenting demographics. Like that's going to be a real soft story. Because there are really serious problems out there. And if you want to make yourself feel bad, you can do that pretty easily with just talking about demographics. And I know this might sound almost like cowardly or something, but if something is that bad, like you kind of have to move off it. And just endlessly talking. Well, maybe you move off it as your primary focus, doesn't mean you need to ignore it. Like, I don't even... I don't know how to even do black crime anymore, but just endlessly publishing articles about how white America is being demeaned or something. It just gets depressing at all. And just, I don't know, it's just you're living in a graveyard. And it's just not... I don't know. Look, all group identities are built in a significant part by victim point. If we're being screwed over, we're being oppressed. We've been demeaned. We've been cheated. We've been raped. We've been murdered. All right? That's a large part of group identity. Now, it shouldn't be 100% of your group identity, but that is a large part of the nature of group identity, be it Jewish, black, Christian, whatever. When I was a lot younger, and I sometimes get into this where I like judge other people for not going through what I've gone through. But, you know, even when they're younger than I am, it's like, you should be up to speed with me. Like, but at the same time, like, I remember, like, you know, I don't know, like, 20... I forgot my first camera, you know. I think it might have even been 2008 when I was editing Talkies Magazine or whatever. It was like, ah, you know, this is so edgy. You know, it's like, ah, everything is taboo. We're just talking about so, like, bad. So, I had that sort of experience when I've been going to Orthodox synagogues for a long time. And then I went to a conservative synagogue where you could openly talk about historical criticism, biblical criticism, the historicity of the Exodus. And I thought, oh, this is so edgy. This is so cool. Free speech, free scholarly inquiry. I was going to the library minion at Beth Arm. We had much of the intelligency of conservative Judaism in Los Angeles. So, I really enjoyed that for a few weeks. But I ended up missing the connection and the bonds that come with traditional Judaism. Okay. Okay, so here is your arm saying that there's not an inherent connection between democracy and conservatism. Kind of the relational dimension is above that. So, I wonder what, you know, because essentially at this point in kind of our political history, politics is almost synonymous with democracy. I mean, what position does democracy hold here? Because democracy essentially is downstream from this perspective of, okay, we have the individual consent autonomy is the primacy. So, they become the vehicle of kind of a political voice. I wonder how that plays into your worldview. Well, to begin with, conservatives are not necessarily Democrats. That is such an important point. All right, conservatism is not necessarily democratic. Conservatives are not necessarily small D Democrats. How would 40 answer a final question? Which writer you value whom no one has ever heard of? Stephen Turner, right? The philosopher of the social sciences, right? I think that would be my question. Take the fiction, it is good for the nafesh. Yeah, sometimes, all right, sometimes some fiction is good for the nafesh, right? So, what's good for the nafesh is a very important question. Not the only question, right? There's time to deal into harsh reality. But this is really important that you're on Mazzoni's making point point here that conservatives not necessarily small D Democrats. There are more important values than democracy and human rights. An obsession with human rights, natural rights, democracy, process, parliament, government by discussion, right? These are liberal obsessions. These are not conservative obsessions. Conservative obsessions are heritage and people. The tradition that I'm writing about in this book is one that developed out of monarchy, right? And this is your on Mazzoni's book. What is there to conserve? Out of British monarchy. And the English monarchy was for a very, very long time somewhat different from French or German monarchs in that the English, through the traditional English constitution had a place for parliamenting. So if we take, in praise of the laws of England by John Fortescue, which was written around 1470, that we see that his argument is that the people of England, the parliament, the bicameral legislature is responsible for laws and is responsible for taxation and the tin cans. You can have a lot more freedom sometimes in an authoritarian regime that's not democratic than in a democracy, right? Democracy and liberal human rights are often at odds, right? Liberal society is not necessarily a democratic society. So in a liberal society, people have inalienable rights, which puts considerable limits to democracy. So often the more democracy you have, the fewer rights you have, the more rights you have, the less democracy you have. And so there are things that are more important than processes such as the preservation, safety, and prosperity of your people. When he says free, he's obviously not talking about, you know, what modern liberals mean when they say free. But he gives examples. He says, you know, for example, the king cannot enter the house of an English farmer without his permission. And he certainly can't take things from the English farmer without his permission or things without a law from the legislature. So, and Fortescue associates these kinds of rights with freedom. He says that the reason that the English people... Right. So if you're struggling to eat, right? If you're struggling to survive, if you're struggling with violent crime, then democratic processes and the finer points of, you know, parliamentary discussions and political parties is probably not a top priority. People want results. Sometimes democracy delivers the best results. Sometimes liberalism delivers the best results. But liberalism always needs something plus, right? Liberalism is never enough for a society. You need liberalism plus nationalism or liberalism plus socialism. Right. Liberalism always needs something plus. This is a point Ross Douthat made in a column a couple of months ago. Constitution that protects the property. So all of these things exist already in 1400s in England. So if you ask, you know, how does it, how does it conservative? How does it conservative in this tradition view democracy? That the question is always does it improve things or does it make things worse? Exactly. Does it improve things or does it make things worse? For your people, for a particular people, at a particular time and place. Right. Sometimes democracy for your particular people at a particular time and place will make things better. At other times, a monarchy will work better. At other times, a tenocracy will work better. Other times, you'll be better off the road by priests. Other times, you'll be better off in an authoritarian regime. Right. What makes things better for your people? That's the conservative concern. And the democratization of the American Republic, that there's a extended suffrage in the United States for a weekend. I think that the issue that I see with democracy is that it brings in, essentially, you can also say that it becomes ruled by media because, you know, where does the informed citizen get their information? No, democracy has many problems, but it's not ruled by media. But people did not evolve to be gullible. But the media doesn't, and it changed a lot of minds. There are no states where there's rule by media. There's just no empirical foundation for that sort of observation. That's silly. To be so informed to actually make a decision on a political level, and then, you know, that there's competing interest there, and it also brings in, it turns politics into the matter of everyday life. Like, there is a certain freedom from politics that you have in alternative systems that I think is quite underrated in the sense that now it's become, it's become a complete obsession. And it's become synonymous to religion. Like, the moment the religion, you know, left through the door, politics entered through the window, and now this is essentially the animating spirit for so much tribalism for all of this. So, I mean, I think that's, people might argue with me that, you know, it's a price worth paying, but it might also not be. Right, so the disintegration or the growth or strengthening of a society, that's more important than democracy sometimes. All right, so, so beautiful here in Manly. I've walked 13 miles today. I'm pretty tired, maybe not as sharp as I was at 6 a.m., now that it's 6.09 p.m. I found some protein yogurt at a local call store. Okay, calls as like came out. So I had a protein yogurt and two mandarins to fortify me. I had five protein bars for lunch, and it's such a gorgeous day. I've just been shooing up the miles here in Manly. We're watching the very small thing happen in the UK, and it's not at all clear that having moved to more freedom all the time is the only value to emphasize the need. Right, yeah, more freedom, more, more freedom, and it's not necessarily a good thing. It's Chinese. It's not at all clear that they can survive. I mean, I just don't know that many people have the great deal of confidence that the United States is going to exist for five years from now. So I've got hundreds and hundreds of dollars worth of electronic equipment in my bag there on the bench, but I'm not afraid that someone's going to steal it when I turn my back. It's really nice being in a safe place. You could basically count on their news to be reliable. In other words, you could in those days be it sounds that most of what it was that they were reporting was usefully accurate. And in the same way, the... So when I was here in Australia in the 1970s and 1980s, right, there were a lot of topless women bathing on the beach, probably a third of women under 30, above 15 were topless, but that's changed since the influx of Muslims in the 1990s. So I was out here in the 89, there were still topless babies below the beach, but during the 1990s and even after 2001, large influx of Muslims into Australia. And with that, the end, essentially, of the topless babies on the beach. Okay, this isn't exactly a catastrophic change. Unfortunate, not catastrophic. So this is Yoram Hazzani speaking on his book, What Is There To Conserve. Yeah, respect for tradition, right? That's the key part of being conservative, right? You think that time-tested ways of organizing people and communities is likely to be more effective than radical new innovations. Essentially, the self-correcting feature of liberalism tends to become a God in itself. Like the idea that, okay, we are striving, essentially that's kind of the instinct of liberalism. We're always striving to morally improve, to end up on the right side of history. And that idea in itself kind of leads to that, interning kind of resentment of the present moment because we are, of course, still in the process of moral evolution. We kind of have to be a little bit, at least, resentful. Yeah, and this constantly striving for moral improvement, it's largely a delusion, right? There are just certain inherent nasty qualities to being human and tradition usually offers us more effective ways to channel them. Of our brethren, of the current situation, because remember in the past, we were obviously, the past is a very immoral place, or immoral place. Yeah, that is the quintessential liberal view, the past is a very immoral place. And now we're just living through ever-increasing amounts of freedom. Present, we're constantly improving, and only in the future will actual morality be possible. And even then, we're still kind of in the churning, permanent revolution. So I feel with kind of this current perspective, is it even possible to, I don't know, love your brethren, have any sort of ties to any sort of... So Alex Kashuta, not a particularly good podcaster, she's just all over the place with her questions. Is there an Australian Karen archetype? Not really, I mean, there are some Karen's, Australian Karen's, like American Karen's, but it's not a major archetype of Australian personality. Australians tend to be pretty easygoing. I don't think Karen's are easygoing. But Alex Kashuta just kind of meanders, right? Not exactly sharp and brief in her questions. The best questions are the shortest questions. This is more of a, or any sort of piece with your own history? Well, we just switch topics from democracy. Yeah, so she's just all over the place. Not the same thing, but democracy is an extended suffrage where there's a set of ideas. Yeah, that's a great point. Liberalism, not a system of government, it's a set of ideas. It needs to be liberalism plus, liberalism plus democracy, liberalism plus nationalism. These possibilities look more in shape than the average fat lazy American. I thought so too, but we're in the eastern suburbs of Sydney where the more affluent, the smarter people live. So they tend to be in better shape. Overall, I've found out to my dismay, and this did not used to be true, but now Australians are on average just as obese as Americans, I think. It was not that way until maybe the last 10, 20 years. So when I came to America in 1977, I was stunned by the huge number of fat people. But with each passing year, it seems like Australians more and more resemble Americans, though not on Sydney's eastern suburbs where people tend to be in pretty good shape. It comes very close to being a kind of religion because the assertion that everybody is not to take on obligations that they consent to. And you were just referring to a third plank and figure all the answers to everything out. Just by thinking of actually, it is a kind of a rule. Okay, this is your arm. Azoni speaking with Alex Casciuta. That's K-A-S-C-H-U-T-A. Lives in Romania. And I'm just going to leave it there for now. Bye-bye.