 Alright. And I first want to ask a little bit about you. So if you want to use the chat so we can all see. Lock here. I'm not sure what's going on. Go ahead and check your audio. I see in the chat that you can't hear me. It seems to be something on your end because other folks can hear me. But I would like to learn a little bit about you. So go ahead and use the chat to let me know. You may be your your program if you're a graduate or undergraduate student and why you're here in this workshop. I'll go ahead and repeat that question in the chat just to make sure that everyone got that. Great. I see some responses coming in. Pamela is with Career Services and might need to publish a paper on the innovative techniques I use when teaching business communication skills. Very cool. There's a lot of great stuff going on out there in the scholarship of teaching and learning. I see someone says I'm a graduate student in the comm studies department here to learn how to publish scholarly articles which will help in PhD programs. Absolutely well. Anyone else want to chime in? And Jessica. Second-year student in the doctoral program wasn't able to learn how to turn my interests in education in. Oh, I want to be able to learn how to turn my interests in education into scholarly articles. All right. Very cool. So thank you for that. That just helps kind of frame this for me and know what to focus on and where you all are coming from. So our goals for today are to cover how to choose a journal. This can be the most taxing part of the process. Especially when you're a graduate student or you haven't published before and are new to a field and are just unsure of what journals are out there, which ones are better, how choosy some journals are. So that in itself is a really big first step in the process. We're also going to talk about resources for preparing your manuscript. The library has a number of tools and services that you can use to make sure that you prepare a solid manuscript that is going to help you get published. We're going to talk a little bit about the peer review process. I'm sure we've all heard this. If we've done any research, we know peer reviewed articles are usually what's expected of us when we're doing research. But what does that look like on the back end? What is that process? How long does it take? How rigorous is it, et cetera? And then we'll cover what happens if and when your article is accepted for publication, which is very exciting. But there are some really important pieces there that we don't want to overlook. And I just saw the chat from Lockfear. I'm a graduate student in special ed rehab and counseling, planning to pursue a doctorate in social psych, wanted to know how to publish solidly articles. All right. Thank you. Perfect. So before we go ahead and dive in, I always like to cover some terminology, because this is really important. And this is sometimes more of a reminder to myself than anything else. But there are different terms for what you're working with based on how far along it is in the publishing process or the publishing pipeline. So before an article is officially published, it's typically referred to as a manuscript. Sometimes we think book length when we when we hear the word manuscript, but whatever you've written up, despite length, generally is referred to as a manuscript. Peer review, which we'll talk about later at length, is the formal process that scholarly journals employ to ensure that a manuscript's writing methodology, arguments and conclusions are sound. Peer reviewed articles are sometimes called refer read articles, especially for those of you in grad school, you might have come across this term before. It's just the synonym. If your paper is accepted, but not yet published, it's typically referred to as a preprint. And this is because you're we're seeing this this term increasingly because preprints are sometimes made digitally available to readers. So if you've been doing research, you might have come across a preprint before. That just means that the paper what you're looking at the manuscript has been accepted. But there might be a couple copy editing things and final tweaks before it is officially informally published. Once the manuscript is published, then it is typically referred to as an article. But of course, there are exceptions, because published articles, depending on the discipline are sometimes referred to as papers, sometimes studies, you hear that a lot in the sciences. In the humanities, you might hear the term essays. And so again, depending on the disciplinary conventions, we might be using different terminology. I'm going to pop into the chat here. Okay, great, great. Okay. Are there any questions at this point about terminology? Okay. So what I'm going to do is actually get us into a research guide that we've created in the library. And we'll go from there. So, and feel free to follow along at home. If you've got your computer in front of you, I'm going to go to Cal State's homepage. And then I'm going to click on library. And under this research links box, I'm going to click on library guides. And if I go to, let's see here, what's the easiest way? Actually, if we just type in publishing, the first hit should be this publishing a scholarly article guide. And this is where we want to be. Let me get that nice annotation back that red dot so you can all see where my cursor is. Okay, there we go. So tonight, we're going to walk through these tabs, but I wanted to make sure you saw this, because there's there is content in here, we likely won't have time to cover. And so I want you to know this is a resource that you can access on your own later. Right now, I'm going to go ahead and pop the URL to this in the chat so that you have access to this on your own. Liveguides.csusb.edu slash publishing. So we're going to start with this first tab here choosing the right journal. And we're going to focus in on tips for identifying potential journals. As I mentioned at the beginning, this can be the most onerous, time consuming maddening for first step in determining where to publish. Tips include number one, ask a professor or trusted colleague if they have any recommendations. Professors, especially are immersed in their disciplines, they have published before they know what journals might be interested in which topics they know which journals are incredibly difficult to get accepted into they know which ones are have less of an ideal reputation. And so they are an excellent starting point for getting started on this journey. Another very useful tip if you're getting started is to do a search in one of the library's many databases for a topic that's similar to yours. And this will allow you to identify the journals that have published articles on topics that are similar to yours. So it can give you a really good idea if they would be interested in what you're interested in. So we're not going to spend a lot of time on this but I just wanted to demonstrate how this works. I'm going to assume that we've all done some research in a database before. But if I use this databases by subject link, which you can't access from the library's homepage, I'm going to go into let's see here, I'll go into education just as an example and pick a database. I'll just for tonight, go ahead and click on Eric, which is a very common database. And then let's say I'm interested in LGBT youth and school counseling, just as an example. So you'll do a search for whatever you want to publish on. I'm going to go ahead and limit my results to scholarly, period, and make sure then looking at articles that were published in period journals. And then you'll go ahead and look at your list of results. So I can see here, we have an article from from professional school counseling. This one is from school psychology review. This one here also from school psychology review. So again, this can give you a really good idea of which journals might work as far as their scope and what they're willing to accept. I'm going to go back. And I'm actually going to go into communication studies to show you another database that has a neat feature if you're doing similar work. So you do your topic, let's say I'm looking at gender and media, for example, we're going to go ahead and limit our results to scholarly, period, and then over on the left here. Eric didn't have this. So I want to make sure you see this. In some databases, there is a limiter. This one is called publication, where it will give you the list the journals that your results are coming from. So I can see here that 393 of my results are coming from feminist media studies. The next new media and society only 111. So this is a really good indicator that I should look at this journal, because they're publishing stuff on my topic. Okay. Alrighty, so that is another really good technique if you're getting started and trying to figure out which journals to use. The third thing you can do is locate lists of top journals, there are many of these out there, many of which are just freely available online. You don't have to necessarily go through a library database. The one that I always like to show folks is actually Google Scholar Metrics. So I've got the link right here. And what it defaults to is kind of a generic page. But if you go up here to categories, and let's say we're looking at, Pam, I think you said you were looking at business. If we go into business, and we can even select subcategories. So let's say educational administration just as an example, it will give me a list of the top 20 publications in this subcategory of educational admin within business economics and management. So I see here that Journal of Education Policy is my top journal. This is all based on what's called a metric. The metric here that these rankings or ratings are based on is called the H5 index. There are a number of different metrics out there that rate or rank journals. They're complex, they're mathematical formulas, but essentially they're based on how many citations, articles from that journal is getting. Because to have a higher ranking, that means you have more influence. So I know Journal of Education Policy is number one, their articles are getting cited everywhere. We go down here to Management Ed, their articles are not getting cited as much. And so if you click on it, we were to click on H5 index, it would give us a definition of how they actually, what that formula looks like and what's that what's that what that is based on. Okay, I'm going to pause and give us a second. If we have any questions, I'm going to just look at the chat here for a moment. So I'm going to go, I'm going to close this. Other way to identify potential venues for your manuscript is to look for what are called calls for papers. Journals will sometimes seek to publish specific issues on specific topics. For example, I am currently publishing an article, I should say publishing a manuscript, not an article yet, but publishing a manuscript in a special issue of a library journal that is focusing on affect. And I submitted my manuscript as a response to a call for paper. So I know every other article within this issue or is going to also be dealing with affect. So all you need to do the easiest thing to do I'll show you a couple techniques is you can actually just Google you see here, there we go. We can Google calls for see call for papers and then we can do LGBTQ youth just as an example. And so our result set is going to include like we see here a call for submissions. And other calls, period you journals, and this and these results are going to include not only journals that have put out calls for specific topics, but also things like conferences that are seeking proposed conference proposals. So going to conferences are really good way to get your work out there even before it's published to get feedback on it from professionals. You also might come across books that are seeking proposals for for specific chapters, which is another sort of route to getting your work published in a scholarly venue. So this can be really helpful right here as well as Googling call for papers and then your topic. The library subscribes to another tool right here called cobbles. It's essentially a database with information about journals. How nerdy can it get right, but it's really, really helpful. Cobbles I like to include because not only does it include call calls for papers information, but lots of rich information about specific journals. So we're going to go ahead and go in here. Cobble scholarly analytics is the full name. And here we have our search bar at the top. If you go to filters and more kind of hidden here, you can select calls for papers. I'm going to change that to yes. And then you can enter your discipline or your area. So let's do counseling. Go ahead and do a search. Okay, so I know that everything here is related to counseling and includes a call for papers. So I'll show you what what I mean here. So let's go to British Journal of Guidance and Counseling. I'm just going to click on this. This is the name of the journal. What I see here is this microphone that says July July one. This tells me that this journal has a call out for papers and the due date for a proposal or a submission is the first of July. But the other thing I can see here under this about is the discipline. So I know this does a psychology and psychiatry. Important also to note the frequency of the issues. So they published by monthly. I'm going to assume that assume that's every other month versus twice a month. But we can visit their website to get more information. Knowing the frequency of how often a journal publishes can can be really useful. Because it can give you an idea of what to expect. It's difficult to know when your stuff might get out in the world if they don't give you this information, especially for those of you who are looking to publish as a way to help kind of boost your resume to get into a PhD program. You might choose not to publish in a journal that only publishes once a year because that you know could be a while before your stuff gets out there. So just keep that in mind. Right here is going to be a little summary or a big summary of what the journal is. This will likely include the scope, right? The types of stuff they're interested in publishing. Down here we have submission also really useful. This tells us the submission is done through the web. I would say 99% of journals these days are web based submissions at least back in the day used to have to mail your stuff in a manila envelope. Not the case anymore. Thank goodness. Six to 10% of the articles they publish are invited, meaning they seek out specific scholars. So if you if you ever get to the point in your career where you are considered an esteemed scholar or an expert in a particular subdiscipline, it's not uncommon to have journals asking to publish on your research in their journal. This journal has a 40% acceptance rate that might scare you. That might not. I've definitely seen tougher. But this is also really useful to look at to determine like, is this too risky for me? Is this something I want to spend my time submitting to or do I want to look for something that has a higher acceptance rate? Tells us that the review process is double blind. We'll talk about that later. Two to three months for the reviewers to look at your article. Again, we'll talk about the timeframe later on. Yes, comments just mean you will get comments back from the reviewer. I'm not sure if this means you'll get comments, even if they say they don't want your article. That could be helpful either way. It gives you the word length, the citation style here is APA, etc, etc. What I recommend doing is once you identify the names of, I don't know, say five, six potential journals is go through either here with cobbles or the journals website and create a spreadsheet and just document this. What is their acceptance rate? What citation style? How long does it take? How frequently do they publish? That way you can really compare and contrast your options and determine what works best for you. The other thing here we have is metrics. I did mention metrics earlier. They have four metrics here that they present. One is the cobbles classification index. We could click here. What is the CCI? But again, essentially, this is their own metric, their own percentage based on how often the journals articles are getting cited. What is the insulence of the journal? Difficulty of acceptance is 41% here. Again, if we were to click on this, it would give us more information. We have a journal impact factor, which is yet another metric. Then we have our alt metric, which I think is kind of fun because it's alt, meaning that it's not traditional. It's actually looking at social media mentions of this article and it breaks it down by platform. 19 people on Facebook have shared or posted about this. 360 people on Twitter, 25 mentions in the news, et cetera. I guess I should say that not this article, but the median mentions per article. It really gives you a lot of data here to work with to help you evaluate and determine if a particular journal is the right one for you. Not every journal out there is indexed or is included in cobbles right here. If you don't find your journal of choice here, next best thing is just Google it and go to the journals website because all of this stuff is going to be there too. The citation style. They usually are referred to as author guidelines. So how you need to format the manuscript, expected word length, anticipated time, length of time for you to hear back, all of that stuff. So you definitely need to do do some work on your end first to help you determine the right venue for your manuscript. Alright, are there any questions at this point? Okay, so I will keep an eye on this chat, but I just wanted to return to this library, this research guide under things to consider. Just a really quick review here. You want to consider the journal scope to determine if what you're writing about matches what they're interested in, the impact factor or ranking, the acceptance rate, the timeframe or frequency of publication. The other thing I didn't mention is where the journal is indexed, meaning through which databases their content can be accessed. Usually on the journals website, they'll tell you, yes, we're indexed in, you know, XYZ databases, which can reassure you that if you publish with that journal, your article will be discoverable through people who have access to those databases. Usually when you publish a scholarly article, you are hoping that an academic audience will be the folks reading it, right? The other thing that might be of interest for you in determining where you want to publish is whether the publication is either open access or has an open access option. And that simply means that their content is not behind the paywall. And it's actually freely available through the journal's website, which would certainly increase the reach of your scholarship. So if someone was using Google Scholar, for example, they would be able to access that for free. I personally always try to publish it in open access publications, not because I think my work is like the best ever. But just ethically, I absolutely believe in information being freely available. But you know, every discipline is different. Some disciplines place high value in journals that are actually paywall. So again, that's something I would discuss with a trusted colleague or professor, and they can guide you on kind of what is more acceptable in your discipline. Okay. So if there are no questions at this point, I'm going to go ahead and move on to the second tab here. Preparing your manuscript. And I'm going to go ahead and share a checklist with you through the chat. So let me figure out how to do that just one second. Okay, so you should have through the chat received this PDF. It's also here in the library guide. This is just a checklist for publishing a scholarly article. This covers a lot of what I just talked about as far as evaluating journals for whether they be useful for you. Also includes some information about preparing your manuscript and making sure that you are formatting its etc. According to the journal specifications and contain some information about the peer review process and then rights management which we'll talk about later. But that checklist will hopefully be useful to you as you are working through your own publishing process. So I always like to cover the couple of things here in this note box. So it's always a good idea to have someone you trust, which could be a colleague, a professor, a friend, review your manuscript before you submit it. Right. We all know that you can read something a million times and still miss typos. So having a second set of eyes, a second or third or fourth set of eyes can be really useful. The fun thing too is most journals allow you, if your manuscript is accepted, to have an acknowledgment section. We've probably all seen this at the end of the scholarly article where you get to thank people. So if someone does lend you their time and expertise and review it, you can actually thank them officially in the acknowledgement section and their name is published, which is kind of fun. I thanked my husband and the very once and he was tickled that his name was in print. Anyway, so good practice there. And of course, make sure to follow the journal's guidelines, which includes citation style. Sometimes they get really specific, like they want a specific font, length. You know, no journal wants something that is twice as long as what they expect or that's only a page, right? And again, these guidelines can typically be found on the journal's website. And you're always free to actually email them if something is unclear. The other thing that journals are really picky about or can be picky about is citation style. And so I always like to mention Zotero. If you haven't used or attended a library workshop on Zotero, Zotero is a citation management tool that more or less once you have located and organized your citations, it will create citations for you in different styles. So if I had a bunch of sources, Zotero could create a list and APA for me. And then with a click of a button, I could change that reference list to MLA or Chicago style. It also has a plug-in or an add-on with Word, so it can actually can also do that same thing with your in-text citations. And the reason I mention this in this publishing workshop is because you might submit to a journal that requires MLA. You might get rejected and decide to submit to a different journal, but they use APA. And so instead of spending hours and hours updating your citations, a tool like Zotero can help you make that change really, really quickly. And as I mentioned, we do regularly have workshops on Zotero, some of which are offered through Zoom. So just keep your eye on the workshop calendar if you're interested in that. My colleagues, Lisa or Stacey, are in-house Zotero experts and they would also be happy to meet with you one on one in the consultation if you can't make a workshop. Over here, we also have useful guides. A lot of these are citation style guides, but if you need any help with that, I always like to point these out. These are put together by librarians with expertise in citing and research, and so these can be incredibly helpful to you. Okay. So I'm going to skip on over to this next tab, Peer Review. So I'm going to try something fancy here. This is my first time. You're all my guinea pigs. I've created a poll, so I want to see if this works here. It's just a question I'm going to present to you. Okay. So the question I'm presenting and you should see a little pop up right now is how long does the Peer Review process take from beginning to end on average? So go ahead and vote. Oh, yay, it's working. People are doing it. Cool. Again, the question is how long does the Peer Review process take from beginning to end on average? All right, we only got two participants, but that's okay. I'm just happy knowing this actually worked. So thank you guinea pigs. So someone said two to three months and someone said six months to two years. Whoever, and I had a question locked here, are we supposed to watch the video? No, we're not going to watch the video together tonight. I'll more or less explain what that covers, but you can watch that later if you're interested in. Oh, we got another participant, two to three months. So actually six months to two years is more accurate as far as how long the process usually takes. The reason being is that there's a lot of people involved and there's a lot of back and forth. So again, I'll just briefly kind of verbally explain what is in this video. We're not going to watch this video together, but you can watch it later if you would like to. The Peer Review process works like this. You write your manuscript, whether it's more of an essay type of critical analysis and the humanities, or if you've conducted an empirical study in the sciences, whatever it is, write it up. If it's a manuscript, you submit it to your journal after doing your homework and determining which journal you want to publish in. The first person that you're going to talk to is the editor. They're kind of like the boss of the journal and they're going to look at your manuscript and they will determine whether or not it fits within the scope of the journal. They're asking themselves, is this something that we might potentially publish? They're usually not looking too closely at things like the writing or the methodology. I mean if it's something where the writing is just like a hot mess, they might, at that point, send it back. But usually those types of details are saved for the peers. So let's say the editor looks at it and they say, you know, this is, this looks like it might work. They will then identify a number of peers. Could be one, could be two, could be three. I think I had a manuscript where four people looked at it once. But by peers, I mean other experts in the discipline, people who would have the skills necessary to evaluate your manuscript. And those, and that could take a while for the editor to get the manuscript to the peers. The peers are given a certain amount of time to review your manuscript and this can differ greatly depending on the publication. Peers are generally professors working at institutions who are doing this as part of service or their volunteering, their volunteer work to the scholarly community. So it's not like they're expected to have their reviews done in a week. Usually you're given at least a month to complete a review of a manuscript at least. So once the editor has all of those back, they will look it over, usually summarize the changes that the editors request. It's very, very common if the editors like it that they ask for changes. It is rare and difficult to get something back where the editors absolutely publish and they think it's ready to go. Changes are very common. It's also not uncommon to be rejected at this point. The editors look at it and they just say, no, it's not ready to go. So hopefully you're in the position where they either love it or they want changes. The editor will give you a certain amount of time to make changes. Again, this, depending on how many changes, right, this can differ greatly from two weeks to three months or more, I suppose. And then you'll send the manuscript, the changed manuscript back for the editor. Sometimes the editor will look at it and say, hey, this looks pretty good. Sometimes they'll send it back to the peers. Again, depending on the types of changes that were requested, and this back and forth can go on for months. So that's why in general we say six months to two years for the entire process. I have heard of it taking longer, but I think that's the exception rather than the rule. Okay, do you have any questions about that? It can be maddening, by the way, what you're waiting to hear back after you've submitted. Like, oh, is this going to get published or not? I'm going to pull up a slide really quickly. Here we go. Let's see. Okay, so I always like to cover this because there is not one universal type of peer review process. There are many. Single, and sometimes referred to as blind review. This is when the author doesn't know who is reviewing the manuscript. I would say this is pretty common. So I write, I write up a manuscript, I submit it to a journal, and the editor will send it on. They won't tell me who's looking at it. The other really common method is called double blind review where both parties are anonymous. So the peer, the person reviewing my work, doesn't know who I am, and I don't know who they are. And this, I would say this is the most common, and this is just to prevent bias. It doesn't always work. Sometimes if you're working within a really small disciplinary or scholarly community, you know there's only one person writing about a specific topic, and so you can kind of tell by their writing who it is. But when you're first getting started, especially if you haven't published yet, you can be fairly confident that the person reviewing your work does not know who you are. The other type of review is called open review, where both parties know who the other party is. I know some journals like this because it promotes transparency. I'm seeing this increasingly. And then the fourth kind is a little rarer. This is editorial review board, where there's a board of experts or editors, rather than peer reviewers. And those folks assess the manuscripts. So I've seen it where they have a schedule. You know our board will look at manuscripts four times a year. I've seen it where the board will just look at manuscripts as they come in. So again this one is less common, but it is another type of peer review that is out there. I've also seen only a couple times, but community review where journals that are a little more, I guess, I don't know if progressive is the right word, but a little more cutting edge. They'll actually put the manuscript up on a kind of open online forum for anyone to comment on. Which is really cool, but also not, because you don't know who these people are if they know what they're talking about. So again this is just helpful going in to know, you know, what you can expect. And again, this information about the type of review the journal employs should be readily available on their website, or at least the editor should tell you if they decide to move your manuscript onto review what you should expect. And that editor, they are the mediators. So if you have any questions, if it's taking a lot longer than they told you it would, that's the person whose job it is to answer questions. So don't hesitate to reach out to them if anything weird comes up. All right, let me navigate back to this page here. I have down here an infographic, we're not going to go over this, but we created this for mostly for undergraduate students who were expected to sign peer review articles, but they didn't know what that meant necessarily. So this kind of walks you through what the peer review process is in a visual format. Okay, so I have this little box here that says bad news. So unfortunately not all manuscripts, as I mentioned, are accepted. So if your manuscript is rejected, you have options. One is to rework your manuscript and submit it to the same journal again. Sometimes the editor or even the peer reviewers will provide you with feedback about why it was rejected. Sometimes they won't, and so then you're kind of in the dark, right? But if you get that feedback, it can be helpful to to rework your manuscript based on that. Sometimes instead of giving you an outright rejection, they will say you have the option to revise and resubmit. That just means they want to rework your manuscript before they're willing to look at it again. The other option, if it's rejected, is to select another journal. So you could find one that has a higher acceptance rate, that might not be quite as rigorous or competitive, or one that has a lower impact factor or ranking. And there's no shame in that. I remember when I was first publishing and still actually there are certain journals that I just I will not submit to you because I'm fairly confident my work would not get accepted. Maybe I need to work through that, but it really just depends on your confidence and your scholarship and your writing. Which direction you go. And you can also, of course, talk to a trusted college professor. They would probably be able to point you in the right direction as well. Okay, so we are nearing the end of our time, but I wanted to cover this really last, this tab here, this last tab, which is relevant if you get the good news that your manuscript has been accepted. So as I mentioned, you should be hearing back from the editor and it's very likely that if it's accepted, that acceptance is contingent on you making some changes. What editors will often do is send along the feedback the reviewers wrote up and then you can make changes based on that. It's totally acceptable to contest some of the requested changes. I'm getting personally increasingly confident doing that. You know, if I feel like there's feedback, I just don't agree with, you know, you can say to the editor, you know, I'm choosing not to make this change because XYZ. If you're just getting started, it might make sense for you to make the changes, but that's kind of some, you know, internal negotiating that you'll need to do. So again, after, let me see here, so after you submit your manuscript with the changes, requested changes, what will happen is the editor will then likely send it on to a copy editor who is going to do, you know, final read through, make sure there's no typos, make sure everything is kind of formatted and ready to go for it to be published. Sometimes they'll put the version up before it's copy edited online and that is called a preprint. I mentioned, I believe I mentioned this earlier, so the contents there, there just might be a few wording or typo changes here and there before it is officially officially published and when it becomes an article. So right before it's published, the editor or the publisher, the journal, will send you a publishing agreement that addresses issues like copyright as well as your rights as an author. Rights meaning whether you can post a copy to your personal website or an institutional repository like scholar works and if you're able to, are you able to post a preprint or are you, are they willing to let you post the official, official published version. So this tool here, Sherpa Romeo, can be really useful if you've gotten to that point with a journal and you want to know what you're allowed to do. You can go ahead and type in, I'll type in library trends. This is a journal I've been working with lately and it will tell you, for example, there's a paid open access. I can archive my preprint. I can archive my postprint but I can't archive the publisher's version or the PDF and then the specifics about where I can archive or post that. So again, this is a good tool. I wouldn't worry about necessarily looking at this before you get accepted but if, if making sure that the article is available in different formats to you and to the world is important to you, then you can certainly check this out. Again, I went here to Sherpa Romeo. I have a bit in the sky. I won't worry about covering it tonight but about sharing an article you've published in scholar works. This is our institutional repository at CSUSB. If the copyright agreement you've signed allows for you to archive or post a version, I highly recommend if you're still at Cal State, going ahead and sharing that in scholar works it will increase the the reach of your work because anyone who searches for something Google scholar, it'll show up if it's here on scholar works. So again, I won't go into detail with this tonight but that is an option for you. Over here on the right there's a little bit of information about open access and so that will be useful too if that's important to you as well as information, excuse me, economics and what traditional academic publishing models look like compared to open access. So we've got about five minutes or so. I just wanted to leave some time to see if you had any questions. I believe on the registration form there were a couple of you who said you had had published or had tried to publish before so if you have anything you want to add or any experiences you think other folks would gain from hearing, go ahead and use either the chat or your microphone to do that, or again if you have any questions I'm happy to answer them. Well thank you for the kind words Kamala, I appreciate it. I should show you too on this first page choosing the right journal. This is me, again I don't quite look like this, different hair now. I'm also heavily pregnant at the moment but you can email me here, schedule a consultation with me. I just got tenure so like publishing is very fresh to me, I'm a little traumatized by it but I'm really excited about it and happy to share my own experiences so I'd be happy to meet with you one on one so yeah feel free to reach out if you would like to. All right so I will all hang out for another minute or so but if there are no other questions you can go ahead and wrap it up. I appreciate your time tonight and again being my guinea pigs with that poll. Okay well thanks folks have a nice evening.