 I think we're live. Okay. We're live. Hello, everybody. Welcome to Blades and Bonas Rappers' Book Club, where we rant about books most of the time. Today we are talking about my pick, which was Shadow and Claw, which is the first half of the book of the new sun. And for once, I'm the one that likes it. So it is only fair that everybody now gets to dunk on something I like and I get to defend it. The universe, keeping things in balance. We're kind of, we're split on this one because I liked it too. Also, happy birthday to Leanna. Happy birthday, Leanna. I've already established the rules with my fellow Blades and Bonas Rappers co-hosts that because it's my birthday, then everyone has to agree with me at all times. So this will be a great live show. Comment section that supplies to you too. You can't disagree with me. I'm not sure that's how this works. All right, so. Be very quiet from the bottom half of the screen. I wonder if we should start with kind of talking about, because I've already said the scene that we've not agreed on this, but kind of talk about where this stands in the genre and why, I mean, I know I'm the one that picked it, but kind of like why this would be one to pick up or like, what is why? What is this and why? So I mean, I don't know how much you guys knew about it before, like had you heard of it before I picked it? No, like not even like in an author interview, like then like, oh, I think I've heard the name. No, I had heard of it once because Tor was going to re-release it as like a classic edition and I heard about that. So I'd seen the title once and knew nothing about it. Yeah, like I'd kind of vaguely heard of the author before, but nothing concrete. Has any nothing? No, I didn't know anything about it. I mean, or I heard about it and didn't like pay attention. Maybe I'd heard of it and didn't pay attention, but like I wasn't consciously aware of it as a thing. So yeah. I've heard it. I mean, I'd seen it around like the cover and like generally like was aware of its existence, but the two things that made me interested in it was, well, for one, I random, I think it was like book out or something, which is like a bad place to just be like, I'll add everything to my cart because it's $2. So like a year or two ago, like of the many things in my cart, like that, it's a cool cover. I mean, maybe you don't like it, but I think it's a very like eye catching unique. Like it stands out. I think it's cool. So yeah, the cover caught my eye. And like I read the like one paragraph description and I was like, that sounds like a thing I'd read. So I bought it and then much, much later saw Pierce Brown raving about it and saying how like this was one of the, his like greatest of all time, like he aspires to this, blah, blah, blah. He has like the first editions or something. And I was like, I have that, I think. I think I got that and I was like, let me go grab that to pay some more attention to it. And then I noticed that it was blurbed by Neil Gaiman who said the best SF novel of the last century. And I was like, Neil Gaiman and Pierce Brown signed off on this. I should read it, but it's funny because Mara hates Pierce Brown's authorial voice and she hates Jean Wolf's authorial voice. And I think there's a correlation. Congratulations to Pierce Brown because apparently like this was you. Yeah, he achieved his goal of being your least favorite authorial voice. So that's kind of how I learned about it. And that's why I wanted to see what it's like. But like, I would just like to disclaim that like I'm, I don't like it because Pierce Brown likes it because he loves Dune and I feel very met about Dune. So I just want to be clear that I'm not just like must like it because Pierce Brown likes it. Yes. I just want to say I love Dune but I understand why a lot of people don't. That's fine. I have a lot of nostalgia for it. I actually, I want to do a reread of it this year. I feel like I'm your baby for that because like I agree with both of you on Dune like Liana's things and your things. So like I, I respect it. I don't know if I love it. Fair. Yeah. It is not for me and I know that already but I would watch the movie like whatever and I think adaptation looks really good. It looks really good. Yeah. I do think that Dune lends itself to adaptation better than this would. I mean, not that you couldn't but I can't, it would be very difficult. It would be, I don't know what you're saying. It's just like random like cocaine fever dream. Like, However, I did, I was looking, you know as you know, cause I was partly sharing some of it and then I stopped sharing it cause I figured I would just annoy you but I, it's the kind of book or if you're into this it's the kind of thing that you're gonna go start digging and there's actually like three published books that are just like not by Gene Wolff they're like world of dictionary of like blah blah blah. So it's like the kind of thing where like if you're the kind of person that is into this, it like there's tons of like out there discussion and analysis and debate and taking it apart type stuff. Where was I going? Oh, I found a, there was a pretty good book review. Maybe I'll go back and link it down below after this is all said and done cause I thought he did it, he was fair cause he like said a lot of reasons why this would put you off but like why he personally enjoys it. And he kind of compared it to David Lynch's filmmaking style where like it's kind of, it isn't, it doesn't really care about telling you what's going on. It might tell you some of what's going on. David Lynch knows what's going on but he's not too bothered about whether or not you're gonna pick it up. You could, but it's not cause he doesn't care too much about making sure you do. It's very dreamy. Like you're just like, this is to make sense for reality but okay, let's go with it. It's a dream logic. Yeah, it's, yeah. Like I get why it's not everybody's cup of tea. I think, well, I think I don't know if you said this part of it but like part of why it's a big deal for the history of the genre is that it's like, I think one of the first sci-fi fantasy blends. Well, it's one of the first dying earth books. Okay. Okay. Cause it's interesting, right? It's like set so far in the future that it reads like a fantasy even though it's technically not. It's interesting. Yeah. And I mean, because like, I mean, a lot of genres that build on each other. So even if you think of something as the granddaddy of that genre, that author was inspired by other things. So like Tolkien is kind of like, you know, the daddy of fantasy but Tolkien was inspired by old fairy tales and old lore and stuff. So you can always go further back. So like even though book of the new son is kind of one of these like current authors like Neil Gaiman and Pierce Brown are like that guy. But for Gene Wolf, he was in the text referencing like the time machine and like things like that where he was pulling and referencing from his inspirations. So it's always like building on the shoulders of your granddaddy. So should we like go around and just give like an overview of like how we felt about it? Sure. Would you like to star, Mara? We could very silent down here at the bottom. I was gonna say like, so far it's been me explaining why it's great. So like it's only fair. Go right ahead. Tell us why it's the worst. So I should caveat that like, this is a prime example of why I'm a mood reader because I think if I had been in a little bit of a different mood, I've been kind of slumping recently. I think if I had been in a different kind of mood, I probably would have given this maybe like a three star of like, not my favorite, but like, I can respect what it's doing. Because of the mood I was in, I gave it a two, but actually I think I'm gonna go back and give it a one. Cause I really, the more I think about it, the more I hate it. I don't like the writing. It's the writing. I don't like it at all. And that's like one of my biggest like things that will make me not like a book. Not because it's, it's not that the writing is terrible. Like for instance, comparing this to like Robert Jordan's writing, I would take this any day of the week. It's kind of a pacing issue for me. It's like both, it feels like everything is happening and nothing is happening at the same time. And I just did not enjoy that at all. I have other problems with it, which I'm sure we'll get into, but like at a high level, I think like the core of what I don't like about it is that sort of authorial voice writing, pacing issues that for me, I just straight up just did not like this. So if we're grading on like, did I like this? The answer is no, I can respect it for what I think some of what it's trying to do. Amanda? Yeah. I didn't give it any star ratings because like, what happened in this? I mean, it was like physically painful to read. Like it's very difficult for my brain not to wander. Just full ADHD. So I was trying so hard and then it was so weird that I just felt like my brain was full of gopher holes. The whole time, like every time that something new happened, I would go down that gopher hole and like what's happening now. And then I'm like, wait, there's other things happening in the story. So like it was just like my brain hurt. But as for like the writing style, like I can understand why people would like it. I don't think there's nothing about like the particular like writing that I think is bad. I don't know. Like it's not for me because it hurt my brain, but it's for someone. Like that's kind of where I'm ending with it. I'm like, someone likes this. It's a cocaine fever dream of a book. I like, I had more fun writing notes about it, but one of them was like, it's all the pretentious introspection of Fitzgerald and the casual misogyny and nihilism of any way, but sci-fi. So that's how I was describing it. So I didn't rate it with stars because I was like, I know what happened in the book, but like I don't know what happened in the book. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I'm getting over here. I mostly enjoyed it. I like, so like, I think it's a really interesting book. It does take a lot of focus. And so for the entire thing, I was like listening to the audio book and reading along at the same time. And that seemed to help me like, at least for me, like with how my brain works, that helped me with like following all of the threads of what was going on. Certainly with all the archaic language. Yeah. Yeah. Which I do think is interesting. He pulls out a lot of like archaic English that are real words, apparently. Like you sent me that article. That was so interesting. So this is like, but he does so much stuff in here that I just really enjoy. Like I enjoy the like the thought going into like finding archaic English words to use and use like referencing religious texts and referencing different literary works and making it like really dense and something you can pick apart and guess at what's happening. I enjoy that kind of thing. And so I had fun with it. And it's one of these things where like I, and I'm sure we're gonna get more into this, but like my biggest issue with this is especially in book two, the second half of it, is there is a lot of misogyny, like a lot of like the main character is extremely misogynistic. And so I didn't love some of that. I don't think this would be published in the same way today, probably. So I can understand that it's like somewhat a product of its time. I didn't enjoy some of those parts, especially later in the book. And so I think for me, that's what dropped it to like a four star. If it wasn't for that, honestly, or if there was less of that, this easily would have been a five star for me. Cause I just really liked it otherwise. So. It was interesting cause I feel like this book is like, if I saw on paper a list, and also like if I wasn't me, but like I knew about me and what I had a history of liking and disliking, I would never think that I would like this because it is so similar, or like again, like on paper, like a bullet list of what it, the project of it or how it's done is like so many things that I've hated. So like it's kind of like Dune, which I didn't love because it's all this kind of like philosophizing and up its own ass. It's a bit like Malazan in terms of the fact that it's like kind of really dumping you into this world and not explaining anything to you ever is just you have to pick it up if you want to. And like I got so irritated with that when I was reading Malazan and like the misogyny in it, like I'm, well, when we read romance books, like I'm usually the one that's just being like, no, how dare you? So like usually like even the smallest bit of something that I don't like how the woman is being treated. I'm just like, no. But so this book is like pedantic. It obfuscates things needlessly. And there's tons of misogyny. And I'm just like, yeah, but it's so brilliant though. I thought you would like it as soon as I started reading it because it was a little bit like by force alone. Yeah, I did like that. You really liked that. And that one is also just like, what, what are you? It's also very up the fuck. Yeah, it's very up the fucky. And I was like, I feel like these two books like would hang out. I was gonna say so, Mara, if you were ever considering picking up by force alone, I think this is your sign that you should not. No, I mean, maybe you might like it. I don't know. It's not like Kurt Vonnegut was writing Abercrombie, which sounds cool in theory, but it didn't work for me. I don't like Kurt Vonnegut. So there you go. Mara, are we best friends? I've never read Vonnegut, but I want to. I suspect I would like Vonnegut. Yeah, I haven't read him as much. I only read him as a teen and was like, but why? Yeah, like I do find this book to be pretty, what I would describe as faux deep, meaning I think that he's dressing up pretty basic ideas and pretty grandiose terms. So I'm like, okay, go off, enjoy. But this gets into my whole theory of like, people like what they like. Like that's why the misogyny, like in a diff, if I was liking the book, I probably could have given the misogyny a pass. Do you know what I mean? Like I wouldn't have loved it, but I would have been like, okay, I'm vibing with this besides that. But like people like what they like. So like if you're into the book, there are things about it that you may not love, but you'll give it a pass. And if you're not into the book, yeah, you won't give it a pass. It's the doppler-dummer. I do think it bears mentioning that even though I think all four of us agreed that like, regardless of the intent, the execution came off quite misogynist. So like that, like if you're just looking at the text, like we all felt that way about it. However, like if you care about authorial intent, like there is a lot of evidence to suggest that that is not his intent, that these are not his views. And so like for me, like that makes a difference. I like, when I was reading Dracula, I put it down because I was so angry and I started Googling Brom Stoker because I was like, does he think this? Does he think that, is this what he thinks? And I found evidence that he was way more misogynistic than even what was in Dracula. And I was like, I am not reading this, good day. Dracula. So it didn't bother me that much. Again, people like what they like. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think like it matters for me also that I think his intention with this, whether he pulled it off effectively or not, but like I think his intention was to shine a light on like issues of misogyny and like with the character like over sexualizing. I don't, I think that he is trying to make Severin a complete, like not a perfect person. I don't think that he in 1980 had language to say, I am trying to challenge misogyny. Like I just, I mean, I don't know that he would have said misogyny so much, but like, I don't know, like I've read some things suggesting that the over sexualization of women and like the way that he's constantly jumping from woman to woman and wanting to have sex with everybody, like that is something that is being critiqued. Like whether he would call it. My guess is that it's becoming, just because from what we've read, it's a very Catholic point of view. My guess is coming from that, not like I'm a secret, but like, I just don't. I think in between those two from again, what I've seen and what I know about to come and what his background is and whatever, like I don't think he's challenging like misogyny. I don't think, I don't think he's challenging that, but I also don't think that like it's, he is, I don't think he's outright doing that, but because of what is to come later, I do think he intends this very much to be like a bad part of civilian and a thing that we are not meant to approve of and a thing that we are meant to find distasteful and disgusting and just generally the world that we're supposed to be kind of horrified by how like horrible to women this world is and just how just generally everything is kind of awful and like, I don't think he thought through how insanely misogynistic some of this is, but I do think his intent was to make this one of myriad factors painting this world bleakly and that we are meant to like see it as bleak and bad. I agree with that, but that, that, sorry. I agree with that, but I do not think that that equals challenging gender roles, challenging. Yeah. Yeah, no. Objects. That's fair. I don't think those are the same thing and women are such just poorly treated objects in this world. Hashtag justice for Yolenta above all, like I felt awful. There's a lot to attack there with Yolenta. That's not even rest in peace. Fecla is used and then abused even in her death and that was, I was like, well, here again, like I hate my tip from not liking to just like outright, like I hate when someone tells me, well, you have to read the next book to know, you know, like I hate that because like a book stands on its own and you're allowed to make judgments on it based on how the book is by itself. But again, for me deciding whether or not I'm going to go on with this, like, where is this gonna go? Like, am I, is it only gonna get worse from here? Does the author mean these, you know what I mean? So like says I was generally liking it, but I'm not comfortable with that. So for me, it was important to know where this is gonna go. Does it get challenged, blah, blah, blah. So like what I understand, because I was trying to find this out without spoiling myself, that like he does get very like overtly confronted by a female figure that comes, cause like earth is dying and earth is no longer connected to the future of humanity who has left. But there are like voyeurs of humanity that come back to earth periodically because like, isn't that nostalgic? That's where we came from. And a much more like future woman person confronts Severian in a very like, none of this is okay kind of way that makes him be like, oh. That's interesting. Knowing Severian, I feel like if he would want like a femdom, like he seems like the guy that would want one. I could see that. I said what I said. Like if a femdom was severed, he would be into that. Yeah. I think like the stuff with Fecla didn't bother me as much because like I think it's interesting as a, it's like, it's not that rich. I mean, but it's just in the reality of her as a character or an actual person in this world, not as a symbol. Well, none of the women, well, actually no one but Severian felt like a character. Yeah, I was going to say no. It's like, excuse me, not the many either. Like nobody, but I think that's the thing is like, I don't think Severian sees other people as people really, like they're all sort of symbolic in his world. So like, you know, and we're kind of in his head. So, so like, I think it's really an unreliable narrator. Treating people as objects. Not just, which, you know, now that we're saying, I didn't think about that until now, but I am somebody who tends to be a very character driven reader, especially. I am too, which is why I shouldn't like this. Maybe that's part of why I wasn't vibing with it. Cause I'm like, nobody feels like a person in this. I think for a book like this, I think for a book like this, yeah, it feels like it's real. Everything's crazy. It's like, okay. I really like character driven books, but I also like ideas driven books. And so in a book like this, I'm not bothered by the lack of good characters because I'm really into the ideas. So for me, like that's what I enjoyed. I think we've just landed on the difference here. Like I don't, I don't think any of these characters are people. And I don't think, I think the ideas are okay, but pretty. Man. Plus you love a puzzle box. And this is- I do. I love a puzzle box. It's a very puzzle box. Why do I like this? I mean, I'm glad you did. I'm glad you took something on your birthday that you were enjoying. Yeah. I was just thinking about like, I know you don't like Pierce Brown, but like I do think, I mean, cause I, if I, I think Pierce Brown is his work, like I enjoy a far more and like not red rising. I don't like red rising very much, but like golden sun on is fantastic. And I think that he, to some degree, I've always kind of said that red rising reads more like fantasy. Like it's sci-fi for sure. There's no question about that. It is sci-fi, but like because of the nature of a storytelling, he kind of makes it kind of grandiose, kind of like an epic poem style. He's like, he loves Greek classics, so that makes sense. So like this, this also has that vibe, you know, where it feels like a fantasy and it feels like archaic in its language, but it is very much sci-fi. However, Pierce Brown, whether, I think you would agree, even though you didn't care for his work that much, that his characters feel like characters a lot more than this. So like he's taking some of that like, let's do science fantasy, let's play with ideas, let's navel gaze, let's philosophize, but have characters that feel like characters. The Puzzle Box thing isn't like, there are some mysteries and reveals, but it's not just like one giant WTF Puzzle Box. Like there are mysteries, but it's not like. Well, I think I wouldn't be shocked to find out that N.K. Jemisin had read him because there are things in this that remind me a little bit of things in her books. And so, but I think she's much better. Like I think she's, she does, like I think like what they're saying this book accomplishes and did for its time. Like I think she is the modern version of that. And I, in my opinion, like even better, like I, from, because she's also like feminist and much like anti-racist. The broken series doesn't really make a lot of sense either at first. It has like multiple different perspectives. Starts in second person and you're just like, wait, what? Yeah. So it's already like this dying earth, you know, type of book and it's like, nothing makes sense. And you're like, who are these people and what is happening? This is also a fever dream. But her character felt like people and had real emotions that it could connect to them. And this one is just like, these are just props. And here is this prop in this fever dream. So I thought of another reason, which was originally on my list, but I forgot to say why I should not like this because of the history of what I have not liked. And that is I don't, I very rarely like heavy religious imagery. And this has so much religious imagery. Definitely. The characters will be like characters. It's pedantic. I'm like, I don't know why I like this, but I do. So it's almost like saying, hey dude. We keep talking about how kind of bonkers this plot is. Can I take this moment to do the dramatic reading of the Wikipedia? Please do. Yeah. Do it. Do it. Which like also just like quickly, like if anyone has read this and like after finishing it feels like, I what? Like the Wikipedia summary, you will find that you did understand everything that happened but seeing it like summarized, you're like, oh. Yes. So if you haven't read this and for whatever reason you're watching and you're like, oh, maybe I'm missing some contacts. Like, no, you're not. Like this is. Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean quickly again, that review that I mentioned earlier with that guy that I'll link down below. He was saying how like he tends to do spoilers in his reviews because he doesn't kind of know how to review a book with out spoilers. But he said that said, I don't feel like anything I tell you about this book, no matter how spoilery it is, could spoil it for you because like it's just. Yeah. Like I really, I don't think so. So here's the summary of the end of the second book. And this is all accurate. Like this is a very accurate with the media article. Thank you, party. Sumbling into the gardens of the house absolute. Severin is reunited with Dorcas, Dr. Talos and Blandalters, Blanders. Sorry. I didn't read that weird. Blanders who are preparing to perform the play they performed in the first book. Severin participates again, but the play is cut short when Blanders flies into a rage and attacks the audience, revealing that aliens are among them. Talos and Blanders part ways with Severin and Dorcas at a crossroads. Severin heading towards Thrax and the giant in his position heading towards Lake Diuterna, Diuterna. Yeah. Yolinta tries to have Talos take her with him, but he has no more use for her now that the plays are no longer necessary and Severin takes her. As they head north, Yolinta is bitten by a bloodbath and falls ill. Severin realizes that she has been scientifically altered by Dr. Talos to be gorgeous and desirable but is quickly becoming sickly and unattractive. Soon the trio meets an old farmer who tells them that they must pass through an Antarctic stone city to get to Thrax. In the ruined city, Severin sees a pair of witches initiate a dreamlike event in which ghostly dancers of the stone town's past led in a ritual by a teacher named Apu Punchao. I really struggled with names in this book if you can't tell. Fill the area and fight the witches servant who was Vodilus. Is that how we say his name? Vodilus? Vodilus? Vodilus. Vodilus? I listened to the audio books, I think that was. Okay, that probably helped. Vodilus is Lieutenant Hildegren. The book ends with Dorcas and Severin emerging from a stupor in the stone town. Yolinta dead and revealed to be the waitress whom Dr. Talos had promised to make beautiful and the witches in Hildegren are gone. Is that a reveal? It's obvious that was the waitress, the whole... That's what I thought. I was talking to, I was talking about this to somebody, but yeah, I thought it was obvious the whole time. Like from the first time we met her, I was like, she's the waitress, right? Obviously they're like, hey girl, this bar come hang out with us, we're doing a play and then she's in the play later. Like this is like a loop of logic. Clearly this is the waitress. Just like in that paragraph, we got aliens, we got witches, we got scientifically altered waitresses. Yeah, I mean, that's 100% what happens. Like this is what the whole book is like, just like set to a hodgepodge of so many different things. I think what I do like about it though, like because so again, like I complained extensively about how much I disliked that like gardens of the moon doesn't tell you anything. And it seems like it's intentionally just withholding information for the sake of withholding it. I know everybody killed me over that, but like that's how it felt. I couldn't identify a reason why information needed to be withheld. I didn't see that it served a purpose narratively. I didn't see how this like benefited it or like how it made something else stronger. Like I was like, what is the point of withholding information here? I don't get it. Whereas here, like I feel like the thing that sticks out to me more than the puzzle box because I know Bethany likes the puzzle boxes. I don't like puzzle boxes. To me, what I like is how almost like a method, like method acting is this way he's telling it. We're like, it's what civilian would notice. It's what civilian would comment on. It's what civilian would care about. So like the fact that they, that their Citadel is an old spaceship that is now like disused and in disrepair. I mean, a more traditionally written book would tell you that, but civilian wouldn't think to tell you that. He might not really even know that or may not put it into words in that way. That's just not gonna be like, you wouldn't bother describing skyscrapers and what they're made out of. They're just, that's a city. Like that's just how it is. So like the way that like, he never tells you anything explicitly unless it's something civilian would explicitly notice and want to tell you about. And so like there's clues sprinkled throughout because when civilian described something in passing, such as like Neil Armstrong on the moon, if you pay attention to it, you can be like, that's what that is. But he's never gonna like be like, so here's this fun artifact of the old time that I wanna tell you isn't that cool that I did that. It's there, but civilian wouldn't describe it that way and he wouldn't think about it that way and he wouldn't write about it that way. So the book doesn't do that. I actually, I think I tabbed that part because I just thought it was so interesting as like the Neil Armstrong thing. Okay, can I just like read this couple of sentences about it? As an example of how you have to like pay close attention and if you do, you might pick up on stuff, okay? So it's civilians like in a hall with a guy who's cleaning old pictures. Okay, he says the picture he was cleaning showed an armored figure standing in a desolate landscape. It had no weapons but hold a staff bearing a strange stiff banner. The visor of this figure's helmet was entirely of gold without isolates or ventilation. In its polished surface, the deathly desert could be seen in its reflection and nothing more. Which like perfect example of like, it's a picture of Neil Armstrong on the moon clearly but like that civilian is describing it the way he would interpret it, which I just think is interesting. Yeah, I thought that was well done. And I actually quite like that disorientation if I feel like the author is kind of in command of it. So yeah, I don't disagree that he was strict, he was good about his point of view. Like he had discipline with the point of view he chose. And then he'd ask you, I mean like to your point, I have no idea if NK Jemison was inspired by this or not. But I mean, to your point, I enjoy NK Jemison a lot and I enjoyed this a lot. And what we kind of talked about in the World Hoppers video where we talked about Jemison and whether or not her voice works for you because a lot of people are put off by Jemison's voice. And in the Jemison books, you never forget about the author. You never forget that the author is telling you this story and that the author is an active participant in how you experience this and how they're choosing to tell it to you. And so there's frequent moments in Shadow and Claw where Severian stops to tell you what he has chosen to tell you and he'll mention that he's not really bothered to tell you about this other thing and he'll tell you why he's not bothered to tell you about the other thing. He'll reflect that maybe he's mad, maybe he's insane, maybe he can't trust his own recollection but he also goes out of his way to tell you that he's got like perfect photographic memory and you're like, okay, dude, you want me to know that clearly, do you though? So like, it's very like, you never forget. It's never just like, oh, like the prose melts away and you're just like in a story. You never forget who is telling you the story. Yeah. Yeah. And he'll directly talk to the people he's talking to as well, which I think is fun. Oh yeah. Here you go. Oh, funny. Well, okay, so like the thing, one thing that reminded me, like made me think of some stuff in the Broken Earth trilogy with N.K. Jemisin is they're like in the second half of it, when they get near, what is it called? Like, like the, not the palace, but the, did it all? No, where are the, like where the Autarch lives? The house absolute. The house absolute, yeah. So when they get to the house absolute, he notices in the garden, he sees these kind of white stone looking, almost people that move slowly or whatever. But like the descriptions of that reminded me of, I don't want to spoil things, but like of beings that exist in the Broken Earth trilogy by N.K. Jemisin. And so there were like little things like that where I was like, I wonder if there was like some inspiration drawn from some of that. I don't know. Could be. And someone mentioned Mark Lawrence. I don't know if he was directly inspired by this, but that is definitely like a dying earth. Yeah. It's in that sub-genre, I think. Yeah. I also didn't like those books. What? I loved those books. I loved them, I thought they were great. This, okay, this is time for me to say okay, this is totally the kind of thing I would like. Like I liked this. No, I'm not surprised, but you like it. I'm surprised. I mean, I like Dune slash puzzle box, like this is, this is the kind of, this is, yeah. Yeah. I also, I mean, we kind of touched on this already, but haven't really like explicitly talked about how it is arguably, like I have to respect the effort of the fact that these are not made up words. These are all, he bothered to find like ancient lexicons of like, these are like, you feel like, what's the word for black? It's... Eulogen. Eulogen, that's a real word. That's not made up. Yeah, we sent you that article. I went and Googled all the words that they said. Like all of the stuff are like actual, like archaic English terms. I was like, I'm like the nerd in Miele. Well, and I thought like, yeah, the idea of the kind of story I think is cool. Yeah. You just load the execution. Yeah, basically. But I mean, like, but I, you know, I thought the appendix like that, I thought was a cool conceit. Yeah. I mean, I think there's like a meta element to this that I could see people in. Yeah. I get why people might like it. It was just painful for me personally to read. Well, it's also, I mean, to me like a dying earth where it's not just a dying earth, like it's not like humanity didn't develop amazing technology. It did and it left. And so the people left behind are basically retreating into a medieval like lifestyle because they know not only, I mean, it doesn't even, I think at one point he has a conversation with somebody. I think it's with Vodalus, where Vodalus is like, it's not that we don't know how to do this anymore. It's that the earth no longer has the resources. Like it doesn't matter if you know how to build a spaceship. We no longer have naturally occurring the fuel you need, the material that you need. Like it doesn't, like our earth can barely support us. So like it's not that people stopped being able to invent or stopped being able to do things. It's that the earth no longer supports you doing this. And so we all are like fighting for ourselves. Well, like iron has become a valuable substance because it's rare. And I mean, you know, I think in terms of like that as an idea or like the entire dying earth subgenre as, you know, we're impacted increasingly by climate change. Like that becomes very relevant subgenre or a resident, I guess. Yeah. Yeah, reading broken earth again. I was like, oh no. Oh no. I know. I know. Like I'm listening to, I don't know if people watch or listen to the adventure zone, which is a podcast and it's like D&D. It's a family that does D&D together. But this cycle they're basically doing a world that is poisoned by the magic that they've used. And so they're like retreating to the, to live in an underwater city. And it's like, yeah, so. Yeah. Relevant metaphors. Yeah. I mean, there is a lot of like weird stuff in here. Cannibalism. We haven't heard that. Cannibalism. The cave monkeys. Which again, that's the part where he's referencing the time machine. Yeah. Well, also I just felt like they're still on earth, but like evolution has still been occurring. So these apes are now becoming more like people. Well, they also have brought back much like, you know how, like we have like lots of like flora and fauna and animals in, you know, the, in North America that don't natively occur here because colonial is a man and expansion people bring stuff over. So now like out of like other planets, like we have animals. Like the thing that they use to like be able to absorb the knowledge of a person that they've cannibalized like is a thing from outer space. Like they have, you know, non-native flora fauna and animals. I thought that was interesting. I mean, like the cannibals and thing is interesting because it's like gross, but also I felt, you know, I found it interesting because clearly it's like a metaphor like a, like a version of communion, like as a Catholic writing this, which I just, I don't know, I thought. But I mean, yeah, it's once again, where like he's very intentionally made to vary and kind of, you know, this like lecherous torturer and then communion is like literal cannibalism. And he's like purposely making very Catholic imagery and very like Christ-like imagery and making it unpleasant and like difficult. Perverse. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. Yeah. Okay. And everyone was just like, it was a hell of a thing. I mean, we're all exhausted after reading it. Yeah. Yeah. Ironically, I think de-slumped me because the thing I read after this, I liked so much just because it wasn't this. Me too! For me, like, it was a- I love this one, but I could find it. Obviously, I liked it, but like picking up a book after this, it felt like if you've ever like put weights on when you're like exercising and then you take them off and you're like, oh, I can walk around, no problem. So like reading a book after it, I was like, oh, like this is, I don't have to reread anything. Like just fly right through this. Yeah. Oh, man. Well, it was kind of weird for me because I was, I mean, I wasn't telling people because it was a secret till today, but like I was reading this at the same time as I was reading Last Argument of Kings by Abercrombie. I don't necessarily recommend reading them together. Like it was kind of weird. I was gonna say that sentence, like had a dangerous beginning. You said you were reading First Law and you don't recommend people reading. And I was like, you're about to die. No. No, the book, I did like Last Argument of Kings, okay? But I don't know that like, it would be ideal way to read either of these books was reading them together because they're both like these dark speculative things that have some like weird stuff. And like, I don't know. Well, the four of us also all talked a lot about Abercrombie as compared to Gene Wolf in terms of, cause obviously like Abercrombie books are nothing like this at all. But in terms of depicting something that the author doesn't condone and communicating to the reader that the author does not condone this while also making these your POV characters. Like Abercrombie, like today is like, is a great example of like, you can have your all your POV characters be intensely problematic. And yet at no point is the reader going, Googling, does Abercrombie condone this? Like you don't question that ever because of the way he's written it. Whereas Book of the New Sun could be written in a way where you don't have to Google Gene Wolf to find out if he condones misogyny, you know? Like you can communicate that to the reader in the text in Abercrombie because he's the goat does it perfectly. Yeah. I mean, I don't, again, like I've, I've enjoyed plenty to our same kitten. Hi. Hi, sweetie. Hey, it's kitten time. Sorry, we had a long, it might be kitten time. A kitten interleaved? Yeah, I don't know if you guys can see her here. She likes to be on my boobs though. Anyway. Hi. Aw. It's their Book of Debut. He really liked boobs. Sorry. I'm now I'm just like staring at this cat. So precious. Yeah, we had a long, it might be kitten time. Quick ad break. Oh, OK. Sorry. What was I going to say? I was going to say something. What were we talking about, this book? About Abercrombie. Abercrombie? Communicator that you don't condone this while still depicting it. Oh, yeah. Like I think this also just gets into, like, there's plenty of books I've enjoyed that have problematic or even just like things I hate in them. Dracula. If I'm liking them, I can say, OK, like this is the part of this book I don't like, but I still like the rest of the book. And it's just a situation where I both didn't like the book and then that made me not like the book even more. Yeah. Which I think I mean, I think that's true. I mean, I guess I shouldn't say all readers. But I think any time you like something, you're going to be willing to give a lot of things a pass, versus if you're already disliking something, then you'd be like, and this also, you know what, that annoys me too. And this also don't like that. So you're just going to nitpick it more if you don't like it. Because I mean, I do that all the time. Guilty. It's kind of like what I've said before, of like a lack of going with it-ness. And like, I think. Yeah. Can you just go with it, please? Yeah, well, this is a book where I had a lack of going with it-ness. Like at some point, I was like, no, you've run it, you've expired my goodwill. And I'm not going to go with this anymore. I think really once you hit the second book. The first book, I didn't love, but like, I think if I'd stopped there, probably I wouldn't have disliked the reading experience. But in terms of like why pair them up, like it makes sense, because where the first one ends isn't really a proper ending. It ends with like, so I'm just going to leave you there. Like it's a variant being like, stay tuned for next week, where I continue the story, but that's where I'm going to leave you now. Bye. Like it makes sense to pair them up that way, because like the end of the first one, you're just like, that's not an ending. What is that? Yeah, it is true, though, that the misogyny really, really revs up in book two. So like, yeah. Yeah. Kind of everything revs up in book two? True. Just a misogyny is one of the everything. Everything gets so much more bananas. I don't know. I just thought there were so many like interesting moments where I was like, oh, like googling things to figure out like what things we're referencing, and that, and that, and that. I think we're, I've definitely, since we started playing D&D, Bethany, I've like learned how much you like, just you want to see all the things. Well, it's funny. It annoys my husband, because I'm the same way when I play video games. So I'll be like, can we just do the main quest? And I'm like, no, I need to see everything and explore all the little things. Which makes me think I don't know that we should go on vacation together, because I would be like, I'm not, I'm not going to read every placard in this museum with you, Bethany. I, you know what, with museums, I have like a time limit where my brain just is done. So I will read everything, but like, then when I'm done, I'm done. So I'll just like, like after a couple hours, I'm like, okay, and we will see more next time. So, yeah, but yeah, no, that's, that is how I am. That's true. Little murder. Literally, I'm not staring at you, man. I'm staring at the cat. I mean, you're beautiful. So somebody said they're taking a wild guess the tiny one's name isn't Severian. No. No. So this kitten is Leanna's new child. Leanna is going to be adopting this kitten that I found in my yard and I had a cat. And we caught it. And now it's like really sweet. It has two names because we're unsure of its gender. I think it's a girl. I'm fairly certain of the girl now. Yeah. Tell us what you are, little baby angel. We wait, we know how much she weighs if she's ready to get spayed. Oh, I don't know. I think maybe six, eight weeks old, but not very heavy. I would say maybe like a pound or two. They have to be at two pounds. Yeah. It's really little. My boyfriend's a little thing in the background. I was telling someone else about the two names that I have planned and they said that I should do a gender reveal where I dress up the cat, like whichever of the names it fits. You should go and accidentally start a forest fire. That's what I said. I was like, and then I'll start the wildfire of 2021 with my gender reveal. Dirty paws. Dirty paws. Well, yeah, I was saying too that I want it to be a boy so I can call it dirty paws bastard of the kennel. I think it's a girl, but she looks like she has a little hood, like a nudge would wear. Like a nudge. So I guess I may as well tell everyone. It's either Kaz Al-Glokta or Inej Dan Augustus. Which would you like, baby Angel? What's your name? I've been doing non-conforming, so. But we also talked about how Kaz is also a girl's name. So it could remain Kaz Al-Glokta. Yeah. It does look like a Kaz. It does, I think. Yeah, I mean, it's technically a feral cat. I just found it, but. Which is so Kaz of it. I think it's good to live in indoors real quick. It's real friendly. It likes to lay on boobs. It litter box-strained it in no time. And it eats soft food. I don't know if it likes hard food yet, like regular kibbles. It makes me wonder if either somebody was feeding it and it wandered off. Because it's surprising. It was always in the cactus because it has this huge agave. And like mom cats sometimes have babies and they stick them in there because like big predators can't get in because it's a cactus. Yeah. And it's been in there for a few weeks. So we saw it like two weeks ago, we couldn't catch it. And then the mom just stopped coming back. So then we had to lure it out of the cactus so I get in midnight. My boyfriend is trying not to get stabbed by a cactus. And we got it out. And now it's our little friend. Amanda and her boyfriend are heroes for saving a kitty. So cute. Yeah. Sometimes she starts grooming herself so she's like real comfortable. Like she's like taken to being an indoor cat like real well. Yeah. She's living the luxury life. Wait till she sees all the stuff she can knock over here. I know. How many of those were? Four protectors. I just like, I mean, I've never had a pet before. So like all my stuff is like at the very edge of a table because it looks cool there. I have so many like breakable things just everywhere. You find out like I feel like every pet is destructive in its own unique way. Like our children. Yeah, exactly. Mine like to chew on cords, but they don't really knock things off of counters. Whereas Bess, who we played D&D with, her cats, all they want to do is knock things off of. I remember a friend of mine when I was visiting, like her roommate had a cat that was a kitten and they were training it to not climb on the counters with like a spray bottle. But like he would like pop his head up because he'd be sitting on a bar stool and his like little face would pop up and then she would just hold up the spray bottle. She wouldn't spray it and he would just go because he was waiting to be sprayed. I knew it was coming. My cats like, you can tell what they know when they're like doing something they shouldn't be doing. Like I'll catch them, you know, trying to get into things and they'll like. Which is when Kaz will be told the deal is the deal. Stop it. You look cute, she is. Yeah, it's not that just similar from having small children. Yeah. We bought a little tiny kitten harness so she can explore and not hide under like a couch. So we had her on the kitten harness yesterday. She was playing around, I'll let her explore a little bit. I feel like Belly Rub. So she's already like really taken a beam of people. That's so when is the cat changing hands? When all of the stuff that I've ordered for the cat arrives, like a litter box, essential. And a landlord, okay. Yeah. She's a short haired, I mean, she's like the least intrusive pet you can have. I mean, I guess apart from like a hamster or something, but this is full Belly Rub territory. I mean, I feel like the least intrusive pet is a goldfish. Don't think you need to pay pet rent for a goldfish. True. They also don't do anything. So Shadow and Claw doesn't have any cute fuzzy animals to its detriment. Maybe if Severian had an animal friend that goes along on his adventures. Yeah, but it wasn't going well on him. It's not like night eyes going on the adventure with Severian. He did name it Tricycle, is this how it's funny though? I didn't think that. How do you think that dog's name is it Tricolale or something? They pronounce it as Tricycle in the audio book. Yeah. So it has three legs, right? Yeah. Oh, okay. I was, if you can't tell. I was just like an F-up name for a three-legged dog. Fancy book, I just like look, I view a name I can't pronounce in a fancy book as a symbol and don't even try to pronounce it in my head. I'm just like that name. Yeah, I feel like if I hadn't had the audio book, I would have been a lot of like V, blah, blah, blah, K, blah, blah, blah. But the name's like, it was really cool to hear them all. Like they sound like cool. Like that's one of the things like, again, I didn't really like Dune, but I love the names in Dune. There's such namey names, you know? Like I find excuses to say them when I talk about Dune. I'm like, I don't actually have anything to say about these characters, but I want to say their names. Yeah. Yeah. Polytraities. It's like a good name. I said what I said. I'm not into polytraities. Fade Ratha, Duncan Idaho, like they're all- Well, good names. They're good names. They are. They are. It's true. Yeah. Well, Leanna and I are going to read on. Go ahead. God bless. God bless. I'll try to read the rest of this Wikipedia page to find out what happens. There is also after, there is a fifth book called The Earth of the New Sun. Interesting. I did also pre-order the hard cover of Shadow and Claw. Oh, yeah. Let's do a plug for the fact that Tor is releasing hard covers of Shadow and Claw and Sword and Citadel. They're quite nice. They are. I'm probably going to pre-order the other one also, but so far. I mean, I can't judge you. I did order the hardback copy of the latest Lindsay Sands Highlander book. Well, I bought the. Totally the same. I did, yeah. Me too. Me too. Also, Bethany, I don't know. I actually, I don't know about this, but I actually, I bought the Max Market and it's on my TBR for this month because I'm in the mood for some light romance to wrap. It's Rory's book, so it's particularly, it's a good one. Also, the man-titty on those covers is truly exquisite. That's not Rory to me. Rory's a soft-boy doctor. Why is this beefy dude on the cover? Because he has to look like all those other, you know, beefy brothers. Back to cool editions real quick, though. Like I said, I have to be notified for when Folio Society has Book of the New Sun back again because their editions that are newly illustrated are. They are illustrated? There's an interview on YouTube with like the illustrator and how he went about. It's pretty wild. Somebody just followed me because I did a TikTok about this and then a guy on TikTok followed me who has the Folio Society edition and like has TikTok videos about them. They're so beautiful. They need to do Folio Societies of Broken Earth Trilogy. I've seen that campaign on Twitter. I would. Also, first of all, please. Please. You said that's a Christie Folio edition that I should look into getting in. It's Cricut House, which I really love, so. Oh. Nice. I just like, I want Folio. As soon as I like a book, I'm like, hey, Folio. Make this one, too. It's Folio, yeah. Broken Earth, I would do. It's like one of my favorite series. I'm like, I have a favorite. Well, yeah, I mean, like as much as like, obviously like first law is like, I don't know if you know this, but I really like the first law books. What? I feel like despite, like there aren't any, like there isn't like, obviously a Folio edition, but he did get sub-press editions and he did get some special editions from Goldsboro. So there's been some editions and there's like the hard covers that I know Mara has as well, that are from Goldance. So he's got some nice ones, but Broken Earth is just literally just like the paperbacks. Like that's, that's hate. No, no, they did do, they did do sub-training press editions, but I think they sold out really fast. Yeah. I wouldn't mind surprise. Well, sub-training press editions almost always sell out. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, for that reason. I'm waiting for my, my Sylvia Mariana Garcia sub-press novella. Which one? She's got a novella coming out with them, like the Return of the Sorceress. It's coming out late, late June. And they have like a, Yeah. Cause I was like, it's the beautiful ones at the full length, right? Like I was confused about what you were talking about. Yeah. No, it's a new one. And I had an EARX, I've already read it and I liked it, which I guess is good cause I'm going to have the hardcover first. Yeah. Well, final thought. I think the chat or that the book is confusing and the cat is cute. Is that? Yeah. I really enjoyed it. This is the sort of thing that I would probably in, you know what? Maybe cause I just end up having Liana on all my podcast episodes. Maybe we can, Hey, it's me again. You should just be my co-host officially. You're on like so many of them, but no, I would like to do an episode like digging into all of the details. Like maybe once we finish the rest of the series because it's one, like I think that would be fun. Like what do you think it would be? I do have the companion book in my cart on Amazon. It's called like Solar, what's it called? I know what it's called. Hang on. It's called Solar Labyrinth. It's exploring Jean Wolff's book of the new send by Robert Borsky. Okay. Oh. For the uber nerd. I would be a Nibbaud, I think that would be fun. Yeah. I don't know what's happening to me. This is not the kind of thing. Like we talked about yesterday how Abercrombie doesn't even think a fantasy map is like a good idea. Like he doesn't even have a fantasy map for first law. And he's just left. Which is definitely more my attitude. Like I never look at fantasy maps. I never look at appendixes. I never look at glossaries on any book ever. But with the book of the new son, I'm like, let's dig deeper. I love a real world or a fantasy map. Any kind of map. Like my- I think like aesthetically they look cool but I don't ever look at them as a reference. I'm just like, that's pretty. I just signed by myself. I do. If I'm into the book enough, I do. I read everything. I read authors notes and like glossaries and appendices. Like I love all of it. I read all of it. I don't. I just read the story. There's even like things that I love. You'll hear me being like, yeah, what's his name? Like N.K. Daniels. I couldn't sit here and tell you all those characters' names until I see them come back and I'm like, oh yeah, that guy. Yeah. Like I just don't remember. Like all the colors and red rising. I know what golds are. I know what reds are. And I know what pinks are. And I know what obsidians are. That's because there's like main characters that are those. But all the other colors that like occasionally pop up I'm like, what do you do? I don't know. There's like, there's charts that tell me, but I don't care. I will see where as if I forget, I'll look back to look. Face ship drivers. They're like pilots. That sounds right. I forget her name. She was like one of Darrow's like commanders. It was like that blue. I said maps are aesthetically pleasing, but not like reference material for me. I don't know. I like all the references and I like piecing all this stuff together. I just think it's fun. I also love books that you make good use of footnotes. I love it. I know a lot of people hate it. I love it so much. I like the footnote, but I think passionately that it needs to be a footnote and not a note. Be a very annoyed in all books if I have to flip to the end notes rather than having them on the same page. Yeah. I mean something with footnotes. I really, I love reading it on Kindle when you can just like tap it and it'll like pop up over what you're reading. So you don't have to like look up down and up and down and up or whatever like footnotes on Kindle. Way to go. Stephanie, have you read The Ruin of Kings by Jen Lyons? No, I have. I think you would actually really like it. I don't, did you like it Leia? I thought it, so you know how I said that I don't like books that make things complicated for no reason. I feel like Ruin of Kings made things complicated for no reason. It's very simple. There's like an encyclopedia in the back. There's tons of footnotes. So I feel like you would get into it. And booktube is like in a different country and like there's no gender norms. Like everybody is like can choose what gender they identify as but like they're all like mixed matched and like how their social structures are. You would really like it. Yeah. You would seek out hardcore. I do think it's really helpful if you do it on audio because there's, especially I've only read the first book, but like because there's like someone is telling you this from the perspective of someone else. Meanwhile, they've body swapped and then been reincarnated as something else. And you're like, who is doing what right now? I'm having the odd because they have like multiple narrators. So there's multiple narrators. So you can keep track of like the story within the story, the story based on whose voice is telling it to you. Okay. But like there's a full encyclopedia in the back. So like I feel like it's like, it's amazing to get one man. I get excited about stuff like that. Or like when authors do like linguistic guides to the languages in their worlds and names. So you should have loved the wolf by Leo Carrell. I didn't dislike it. I like, I gave it for sale. But the language thing in particular, the Anakim had words for things that we don't know. Like the stuff that I liked about it, I really liked. It was just stuff that they're, that he was interested in some things that I was less interested in. Well, like I liked that. I liked the wolf. I didn't get into the spider though. I haven't got it yet. Leighetta also got me to read the wolf. Mara, you're next. I haven't, I haven't gotten to it yet. You have it. Did I know that you have it? I don't know. I'm curious to see how Mara feels about it. I think it'll be interesting. I don't think there's any, like it's not, like the authorial voice is nothing like Pierce Brown or Jean Wolfe. There's no like insane misogyny. I feel like it's a slightly higher chance she'll be okay. It's a cool idea. I like, I like fantasies in general that have like a cool idea. And it is, I mean, it's alternate history fantasy. Like there isn't any magic in it. Yeah. Yeah. Which I, I like alternate history. It kind of reminds me of a little hatred Joe Abercrombie, like the story structure. Like, you know, like the guys who are from the north and he's like trying to become king because his dad got his head smashed. Like, I feel like that's a similar story arc. I'm not explaining things. I don't see it, but okay. I like both books so sure. I can't remember any of the character names. So I'm like, you know, that guy who did that thing. I'm the same word. And like the dude who did this, like I just, I'm terrible with names and books. Me too. Yeah. The guy who said he's king up in the north. And then like he had that necklace. He's like, I'm king. And then Logan smashed his head in. So then Logan was king for a second. So spoilers everybody for first law. Sorry. Someone get their head smashed. It's a bad thing about spoilers. Is it like Valor or Bandor? It's like a B name, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he had two kids. This is only because I just finished my book. Right. He had two kids and the two kids are like grown up in a little hatred. And there's the one that's the heir who's kind of just like the jock. And then his younger brother who's the brain of the situation. The younger brother's like plotting how can I become king? I just, I feel to see how this is anything like the wolf. Because the lead guy in the wolf is also trying to climb a political structure. Like I feel like there's- But he doesn't have like a brother that's also- I feel like it's also about going to power. I'm, this is, I said what I said. I believe you. I highly recommend both books, but okay. I mean, they both have politics in them. And- I will agree that far. And people trying to- It's like a little hatred is a lot to do. A little hatred is a lot to do with industrial revolution and populism. And the wolf takes place in a medieval Europe that's populated by more than one humanoid species. They're not the same book. I'm saying those two character story arcs are similar. So like they remind me of each other. I hear what you're saying. I believe you. I hear you. So anyway, hey guys. You want to know what we're reading? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Next month. I don't have my- I don't know. I heard you got this one. Oh. Yay. Yes. So this will be on Amanda's channel. It's called Mercenary Librarians. Mercenary Librarians on the back it says Orphan Black meets post-apocalyptic Avengers. Like- I love Orphan Black. Orphan Black is such a good show. And it's like- Oh, this is amazing. I can see who we are in a like- It's like, well, we'll see. We shall see. So yeah, it's librarians. But they're cool and they're mercenaries. So it's like action librarians. Yeah. And I am a naughty librarian. So this is my thing. It's gonna be on my channel the end of June. Nice. It's like two different groups of like squads. So you have a lot of like interpersonal dynamics going on. I would also like to know the answer to this. It is a romance. It's urban fantasy. But it has some kind of romance in it. It's a romance. It's a romance in it. But it's urban fantasy. So I think it's gonna be more like kind of action and adventure. There's definitely is a romance. But I would say it's as much action, urban fantasy as it is a romance. So- Yeah. I did buy it at the Ripped Bodice, which is a romance bookstore. So there's probably a romance in it. But it's also action adventure. Yeah. The live show is on June 26th, 11 a.m. to 2 p.m. Eastern over on this girl's channel. The kitten will not be here. Cause it's gonna be living with Leanna. The kitten will be here. Yay. I love it. Yeah. I have some enthusiasm. Yeah. You know, maybe you'll like it. Maybe you'll just get really excited. I always hope I'm gonna like it. I feel like we all always do. Yeah. Having read it, I could see a world where Leanna likes this. Yeah. Okay. I don't like this. I think Leanna is almost impossible to like, really figure out if she's gonna like something or not. Like half of this live show was me being unable to figure out my own taste. So I sympathize. I mean, if I were guessing like, I'm thinking of the books we've read this year so far that Leanna has not picked, I would say that this would be one of the ones I would be more hopeful she would like. That's what I'm not gonna do. I'm just like waiting for the next book that we all like, because I think it's the only one, like when we did Southern book clubs, guy just laying vampires, it's not like. I am for telling, I am guessing that all of us are gonna like Amanda's next pick. I think that's my guess. You mean not, well, this is her next pick. You mean? I'm sorry. Her next book. Her pick later in the year. Oh, and okay. Okay. I think the Halloween show again. The Halloween show, I think we'll all like that one. I don't feel about, I think there's a chance we could all get into the one I picked. I don't know. I think we might all like the Goblin Ember. Yeah, we might all like the Goblin Ember. I don't know, I'm hopeful. We'll see. I do want to say, I know that there's some, I've heard some whisperings of like, are you guys picking things that you know you're not gonna like? And the answer is no. Like we always, we try harder than possible to please. So that makes it harder. Yeah. Well, I think it's hard to like, we all also have like different tastes in certain things. So like finding something that we're all gonna enjoy is tricky. But like, if it's our month, we get to pick it and people can veto it if they just really don't want to read it. But usually we just kind of go with whatever the person picks. So, we'll go and hope and we'll enjoy it. I'm just saying we'll hate it. So yeah. I mean, people accuse me of that on my own channel. And I'm like, I have never in the history of ever intentionally picked up a book like to hate read it. Yeah. I don't know. I always recommend you books and nine out of 10 times you don't like them. But the one time you do, I get so excited. And crack the code. And then I never crack it again. I was excited when you said something that I would have guessed you would hate and you end up loving it. I'm like, that always makes me so excited. I was very happy. I had like a 50% hit rate when we did our TBR swap, which is pretty good. I mean, when I put together my own TBRs, I often have like a much lower hit rate with myself. So. Well, you like it there, so there was that. Yeah. Maybe, I don't know when the bride bed's gonna come out, but maybe that will be a... I don't know either. I know. But have you seen some of her stuff on what she said about it on Twitter? What's going on? She, cause she tweeted a little while back talking about why part of it is she's been having some memory issues. And that's made it hard for her to write, which is part of why she's doing the like language stuff with trying to learn Portuguese to try to help with her, like those memory and language processing stuff. Yeah. That's too bad. Yeah. Well, I didn't mean to bring us down. I was just saying, I know it's not gonna work, so if and when it ever comes out. I was just saying, I think it was Bethany that did that. Don't worry, Mara. I'm not here for that. No, no, I just, that would be, I think that's a safe bet that we would all expect that we would at least like it pretty well. But the funny thing will be that we'll hold on to the hanging. It's the one that we're like, this is the one guys that we're picking, cause we're kind of love it, and it will always be like... Like that's, I mean, can you imagine if the wisdom of crowds comes out and I hate it? Can you imagine? I cannot. I'll just quit my, call just quit book two. But see like, I think it's just a dare book, even if it's not one of my favorites from her, like I'm not gonna have a bad time in it probably. Yeah, it's gonna be fine. Well, there's a few that are her early books that are just straight bad. Like I'd say that- Yeah. She has one novella that I like actively disliked. Yeah. Like some of her early books are bad. It was like- Winter Eve? Once upon a winter's eve, or midwinter's eve. Oh, I like that one. I really like that one. I wanted to be a whole book, but it doesn't make sense to have a novella. Yeah. I was annoyed with it. If it had been a full length book, I would have been fine with it, but yeah, I didn't like it. Yeah. But I'd rather mention that as like a Christmas fave. Oh, there you go. There's like a bunch. Like her old, old books. These ones, the oldest ones. I think I read Goddess of the Hunt and liked it okay. It was all right. And then you go to the surrender of a siren, and it's like, it made my worst book to the year list. It was so bad. Really? It's so bad. Wow. You're like, how did this happen? It's a pirate story. How is this bad? Yeah, after we just... It's a fluke. It's a fluke. Let's move on to book three. Even worse. What did they say? You can please some people all of the time and all some of the time, but you can't please all people all of the time. But this is her first book she ever wrote. So I like it. This is her first series. They're old. Yeah. They're not her best one. But you know, the bleed itself is the first thing that Joe Abercrombie ever wrote. And there you go. It's the same. Special. Yeah. I actually had got a slip of the horn on my TBR and I unhauled it after we did that podcast episode about test severity. In fact, I was like, yeah, I just won't read that. Well, like my whole... Oh, this book is also not great either. But like my whole thought process on this book was like, girl, no dick is that good. Like, why are you with him? Like... That's just true in life though, right? I mean like... Yeah. Sometimes... So the early ones are not that great. I just like, if anyone clicked on the thumbnail for this and just joined now, they would be so confused. I'm like, why are you talking about test severity? I'm like, aw. We are tantalizingly diverse in our case and in drug. That's true. Yeah. Well, so I hope everyone joins us next month for some urban fantasy fun. I love urban fantasy. I do. That'll be fun. And Liana, I'm happy that you picked this because I probably never would have read it and I really liked it. You know what? It's a foundational text and a subgenre I enjoy. So even if I didn't like this, I appreciate... Honestly, like, I think all of us are gonna be more... I mean, it's kind of like when you read Dune and then you're like, oh, wow. So everything is based on Dune. Like, oh. We're like, oh, all high fantasy is based on this. Cool. So I think like I'm reading on from now on, you know, when you read like other well-known SFF, like that's coming after, you're like, oh, I see. Well, that, like, it's funny. I think when you read like foundational texts, that's how it is. Cause like it was the same way, like when I read like The Star Outsider by Audrey Lord this year, I was like, oh, this is where all these books got that thing. Got it. Where I read The Fire Next Time this year from James Baldwin and I was like, oh, so like everything from Ta-Nehisi Codes and some of Ebra Mix, Kendi and, you know, et cetera, et cetera. It's like, oh, cool. Yeah. I mean, I read this. I could say I read this. That's the blur for the cover. I read this. Congratulations to us. We did it. I feel like you just, you need that, that gif of grotto with the fires of Mount Doom behind him and just saying, it's done. Filming an unhaul after this and this is going to be part of it. So that's, you know, my local used bookstore will enjoy getting ready for all. I mean, you're unhauling it big, you're unhauling it because you pre-ordered the hardcover, right? That's exactly right. The same way I have like monstrous editions in here that I'm unhauling because I got that beautiful hardcover, Bethany, shouldn't be. Yeah, it's the exact same situation. That's what I thought. Totally. The Folio Society editions. Exactly. That's what she did. I think, why? I read this. I read this. I should make merch because everyone tells me I should put these things on shirts because I say random shit all the time. I see, there's like a lot of books that like, I say that like, I don't say that I want to read this. I say that I want to have read this. Like, I want this to be a thing that I have, this is like, I know it and I've experienced it, but I'm not looking forward to experiencing this. I think it's funny you were like, Leanna joking when I said about something like, I didn't hate it. And you were like, yeah, great blurb. I didn't hate it. That's what you said about Abercrombie. You were like, I didn't hate it. And I was like, great. No, I mean, I liked it, but I think it was like, I think it was that you were like, I was like, I didn't hate it. I meant it. And like, I didn't hate it. I liked it, but I, it's fair for you to go. I feel like, but this is what happens anytime, like one of a book that you like, love will be like four stars for me. And then it's like, wait, but why? It's the first time that I read The Blade itself and before they were hanged, I gave them four stars each. The only one I gave five stars was me. I'm excited to keep going. The last hundred, dude. Yeah. But I think the last hundred and fifty pages of last argument of Kings is like. I mean, honestly, like, I think it's a little for Bethany to give it four stars. And then for her to say, I didn't hate it. Like, excuse me, you borderline loved it. You gave it four stars. No, I really liked it. I, I, I think it was more in response to whatever you had said before, like, as if I was being overly critical. And I was like, no, I did. I liked it. I thought it was good. Um, yeah, but yeah, that last hundred and fifty pages is just like, I, I really like that. Seriously, I had a copy to read that too. It's we have a Venn diagram of books we like, and there's like a doozy center of things we like. It's like not on the side. Just Chesedare and Joab or Crumpy. That's like a fudge core of a lava cake. Well, Liana, Liana got me to read Name of the Wind, which is one of my favorite books. Strange the Dreamer and Strange the Dreamer. Yes, I read. Well, I read Strange the Dreamer because I wanted to without Liana's input. And then and then Name of the Wind. She, she, she kept saying for years of our friendship, you need to read this. And then she picked it for a book club and I read it. I made all y'all read the lives of Lackawara. Oh, that's true. I need to reread that book. I need to reread because I was not in a mindset to be reading it when I was reading it. Yeah, I don't think I really remember much for similar reasons to end up great. Let's read lives of Lackawara for my next pick. Yeah, I kept, I kept saying, I'm like, is John gay? Like, I feel like he's in love with lost. And everyone's like, no. And I'm like, they're secret boyfriends to me. Oh, this is funny. Somebody said, uh, I read, I love these like merch ideas. I read shadow and claw and all I got was this shirt. Yeah, I read this, have that quote and list all the books you read in 2021. Oh, that would be fun. What if we did blades and bodice rivers book club merch? Would people be into that? If we did that? I would be it. I'd buy my own shirt. I was like, you could make it like, all those like band tour t-shirts, you know, where they list all the cities they went to on tour. That would be fun. We could design it with it. Would people in the stream be into that? If we design something? We've driven them all off with cats and bodice rivers and Abercrombie tangents. No one is here anymore. There's like 48 people watching. It'd be, you know what? Like at the end of the year, like, you know, those shirts that say like the names, like blank and blank and blank and blank like a header day to the front and then the backs of all the books you read and there are going to be so many random ass books. Everyone's going to be like, what is this? I just want everyone to know. The question is, why are we friends? This is an event diagram. It's four circles that are like adjacent. No. There is, there is some crossover. We all like Southern book books. I just think vampires. They cross over at vampires. I know. Yay. Cool. I like how you end our group chats on our friendship. We're like, we're friends and we are friends. It's a great thing. We can model, model friendship when you don't agree on everything. We all love different things. Yes. That's true. Good boy. From dare to Abercrombie. We have a five range of babies. They both have sex scenes. This is, they do. This is a fact. They do. You should make a sure. I'm rereading the first law this year and could write every year. You could. At all times. At all times. Well, I think it was funny because like I said in my vlog, I went from like listening to a Bridgerton book to last argument of kings. And they both were sex scenes and I was like, very different. I got so mad. I went to Target yesterday and they had like a support black authors. I saw that in your Instastore. And it was just like, guys. Well below, below the sign, they had a couple of, but yeah. Below, but then it wasn't all like. Yeah. Like product placement. Yeah. This is awful. Yeah. I'm just confused. Yeah. Yeah. Not great. Anyway. Well, I know. They read this. We're going to read this. So can we, can we have a live show discussing the different types of sex scenes? I think I got that. I think they also requested that. I think you did that on my blog. I think YouTube would object to that. We could do it on your podcast. We could, but you wouldn't miss out on all of the like gesturing and facial expressions. Just like you have the very different reasons why you might have sex. You also can get very different kinds of sex scenes. So, you know, true. We could talk about that. All right. So on that note. On that note. Join us next month. On that note. Join us next month. On that note. Yay. Yay. Last Saturday in June 11 a.m. Pacific. Yes. Thanks as always for hanging out. Yeah. See you guys in a month. Bye. Bye.