 Welcome back to Piers Morgan on Sense. Veganism, the art of eschewing all pleasure in life, is one of the 21st century's most bizarre trends, from where I look at it. But there are green plant-based shoots of recovery. The new fashion is for high-profile vegans, including explorer Bear Grylls, to reveal the de-transitioning back to healthy, meaty diets. And so many chefs like John Mountain, who runs Fire Restaurant in Perth, Australia, is also leading the fight back. He's made global headlines this week. After announcing, sadly, all vegans are banned from fire for mental health reasons. We thank you for your understanding. Many didn't understand. He's been flooded with fake bookings and hostile reviews. But I'm joined now by the vegan ban himself, John Mountain. And here in the studio, animal rights activist, Joey Carbstrong. Well, welcome to both of you. OK, John Mountain, why did you ban vegans from your restaurant? Morning, Piers. I banned them from my restaurant because, look, I've been a chef for nearly 30 years, but on this particular incident, it was just too much, you know, they grouped together, which, you know, I'm very proud of the vegans for all sticking together. But they did. They grouped and bandied together and then started hammering my business with one-star reviews. I saw my rating drop from a sensible 4.2 down to 2.8. They nearly broke me. God bless the vegans, though. It didn't work. What was the incident that provoked all this? The problem that happened was a girl had emailed me three weeks before requesting a vegan selection. And I said, well, look, rather than saying that, what is it that you like? Tell me what you like. And she said, well, you know, I like gnocchi and risotto. I thought, OK, no problem. We change our menu every day, Piers, so it's not an issue. The problem was on the day that she did turn up. I couldn't do it. I let her down, and it was a justifiable complaint. And she went nuts. Yeah, slightly nuts, as they do. My thing about vegans is they tend to be... I don't know, they seem to me permanently hangry. Like, the lack of meat in their diet makes them very intolerant of people, and they get very agitated. And if you don't sign up to all things vegan in the way that they want you to, all hell breaks loose. I think that seems to be the issue, Piers, to be honest. I think they're just missing a really good burger or a glass of milk, you know, or both, you know, they need to sleep more, be a bit more healthy. Although, you know, the vegan diet allegedly is healthy, just not for everybody else, you know? I think each to their own, Piers, 100%. OK, well, I want to... OK, let's come to Joey. So, Joey Bae grills, so I know well, so he's embarrassed he used to promote veganism. He now eats a diet of red meat, blood, bone marrow, as well as salted butter, eggs, fruit and honey. Says he never felt better. Talking about his transition to a vegan diet, he said, I was vegan quite a few years ago. I thought I wrote a vegan cookbook. I now feel a bit embarrassed about that, because I promoted it, I thought that was good for the environment, thought it was good for my health, and through time and experience and knowledge and study, I realised I was wrong on both. He's embarrassed that he promoted a plant-based diet when he drinks urine and bile out of camel's stomach. Urine's quite healthy, though. It's healthy? Would you drink urine? Would you rather drink urine and eat it? Absolutely, if I had to, yeah, if I was going to jump in. Yeah, but he's embarrassed that he now... ..that he promoted a vegan diet, and he's not embarrassed of his behaviour on TV, and he thinks that eating the bodies of un... Why are vegans so angry? Well, he made a statement saying the vegans are angry and angry, but he carried on and banned all vegans from his restaurant because of one simple complaint. He's allowed to? Yeah. He's allowed to ban a whole group of people from his place for months. What is this, chef, who's just sick of tailoring to vegan people who want to have all this stuff and get angry about being... Listen, listen, listen, wait a second. He got a two-star review when he was on a Great British menu, right? He'd ripped off his mic, smashed up the studio, and said that he wanted to kill the guy for giving him a two-star review of a fish dish that he made. He didn't ban all fish eaters from his restaurant. Why not? You wouldn't ban all fish eaters. Why not? Joey, Joey, Joey, we're going to go... Joey, we're going to get it personal. You were a gang member, so don't take the high moral ground of smashing something up. Am I? Am I? I'm completely honest about it. True? There's been documentaries made about that. So don't take the high moral ground about losing temper. You were literally in a gang. Oh, well, it was ten years ago. Ten years so, but now you've got to use that... I'm just saying, if you're going to get personal with him... But anyways, I don't walk around with our dead baby pigs facing them like that. Like, does that look like someone who really gives a damn about animals? You know? And he... That's his profile picture. Looking at a dead pig. Joey, Joey, Joey, thank you. In Australia, one second, I just want to say, in Australia, pigs are killed in gas chambers, OK? They cause pigs... They're horrible. Have you seen footage from inside a gas chamber? Joey, here's the thing... I recently exposed one in the UK. They scream to death and beg for mercy. In Perth, there's a gas chamber called Lindy Valley Pork, right? And this guy observes pork at his restaurants. And why would you be more upset of a little complaint as a chef than pigs being murdered in gas chambers? OK, let me ask you the question that I asked a vegan activist the other day, which is that given that 80% or 90% of the world's almonds come from California, where they're made in the... involving the demolition of billions of bees who get murdered, how do you feel about the little guys? I don't get murdered. And that's completely false. And I don't know... How many billions... Excuse me. How many billions of bees die in the pollination of... I've got the 2022 data right here. They die mostly from parasites and pest. 66% die of varroa mites or other pests and parasites. But in the making of almonds and avocado... Oh, they do. They do. The data is here. It's here. Do you know what I read this? It's here is data from US Department of Agriculture. Do you know what I read this? I read it in The Guardian, The Vegan Bible. Even The Guardian admitted that you vegans who eat avocados and almonds... Only 6.7%. This is not so substantial. You don't care about the little guys. Billions of bees get murdered and you don't care. Where do those bees come from? In America, they come from all over the country. The commercial honey industry. That's true. And what do we boycott? What do vegans boycott? Go on. The commercial honey industry. Why don't you boycott almonds and avocados? Because I don't see a reason to. Most of the bees are dying from mites. Do you see pollination of this? You don't see a reason to. Okay. So you don't care about the little guys. Only 6% die from pesticides. So it's not really a rights violation. Not murdering the bees. Here's my point. A big pig makes you cry. A little bee. You don't care. No, listen. You don't care about it. There's no reason to be upset about pollination. They die from mites. They die from mites. Why don't you anger at the mites? Hang on, Joey. Barrel of mites. Sometimes 50 billion bees die in six weeks... From mites. ...to give you vegans. I've literally just told you they die from mites. Check out the... That's not true. That is not true. That is not true. And you're still lying. Read the Guardian. I read it in an article. An anecdote. Joey, how long have you been a vegan? 10 years. Do you actually... Because you seem quite agitated to me. Like, you want a bit of... It's just about nonsense about bees being murdered when they die from mites. They are murdered. They're murdered. It's clown behaviour. But do you think, in a way, you represent what I feel about bees? You're all quite angry. Are you against animal cruelty, Piz? Yes. Then why do you support animal cruelty when you support the meat industry? I don't. I've defended the bees for years. They're not murdered. They die from mites. Billions of bees are murdered so that you vegans... We've got honey where they're hired from? John, let me bring in Johnny. Here's my point about the vegans. There's a lot of hypocrisy as there is with all these debates, right? Which is that if you want to eat almonds and avocados as a vegan, you feel virtuous. You think you're saving the planet as well. Actually, neither of those things are true. Billions of bees get killed to make almonds and avocados. People can go read the proper reports about this. And also, they fly the men around the world or they truck them around the world and they call it terrible for the planet. Do you believe, John, that there's a kind of basic hypocrisy here with the vegans? Look, I think, Piers, what I've noticed is that there's a strange correlation that they have between eating meat and death and murder, which they like to keep promoting, that murder aside. I think if they look at the definition of murder, you know, this is human versus human, and that is it, you know? Look, I'm 100% against animal cruelty and for him to bring up the great British menu, well, it just shows his mentality, you know? Good lad, congratulations, well done. It's not what we're about. I think each should be to their own and you should just enjoy your life, you know? If they're going to argue, Piers, I feel that they should enjoy your life. But, Joey, why can't you? Why are you killing animals? Look at this. It's a pig. You can't handle a simple complaint from a... And this woman, she's a very nice woman, when I spoke to this young woman, she's very nice, very kind, very polite, and you can't handle a simple complaint. Let me ask you a question. And it's clear, even meat eaters complain about this restaurant, it doesn't ban all meat eaters. If you want to be a vegan, I don't care, right? It's entirely down to you. If you want it, they're not being slaughtered. Billions of bees, everyone go and Google. Billions of bees are getting killed by mice. Here's what I say. Either on the show tonight or on YouTube later, go and Google bees... US Department of Agriculture staff. Right here. ...armen's avocados, and you'll see the truth. Even the Guardian, where they all are compelled to eat lentils every day when they wear their sandals to work. This is a gas chamber, Piers. This is how pigs are killed and slaughtered in the UK. This is my investigation. Why don't you play me the sound of billions of bees being murdered? Well, I know that animals get killed so I can eat pigs. They're screaming to death. Right. Look at them, facing. What do you think bees do? Face them, they're screaming to death. What do you think bees do when you murder them? They get killed by mice. This is gas chamber. Look at it. You don't even want to look at it. They get slaughtered. They look cowardly. Look at that. I know that animals get slaughtered so that I can eat animal meat. I stuck this camera in this gas chamber in the UK at Pilgrim's Pride, and they scream for their lives. And every single animal welfare charity... Here's my problem. Here's my problem. I love bacon. You say you're against animal cruelty. I love sausages. I love it all. I love eating meat. You love animal cruelty? Yeah. I'm prepared to admit I love eating meat. You're not prepared to denounce avocado and almond... Because you're making up stats. Because they actually lead to the termination of millions of bees. Final word to John. John, is there anything that will persuade your mind to let vegans in? Because obviously he'd be a fantastic guest in your restaurant. It's just discrimination, isn't it? Thank you, Piers. I do apologize. I didn't hear you then. Absolutely childish behaviour. Discriminating against a whole group of people because of a one little silly complaint. Go ahead. Joey, when was the last time you laughed? Last time I laughed. When I heard you say that all bees are slaughtered because of avocados, it's an absolute abject lie. It's an absolute fact. Facts don't care about your feelings, Piers. Can I get a word? Yeah, John, final word to you. Final word is how many vegans does it take to change a lightbulb? None. Wait for the punchline. What's the punchline? None more. Go have a cry made about a complaint. Go have a cry made about a complaint. Actually, the other one I like is how do you know when someone's vegan? Don't worry. They'll soon tell you and play pictures and stuff of people screaming. Well, they won't play you. Joey, great to see you. John, thank you for joining me from Perth. Go vegan, Piers.