 Welcome to Talk Story with John Wahing. Do we have a special show for you today? Let me first of all, we're doing this show on a Thursday. This is a Thursday before my usual time slot on Monday, and the reason why we're doing it is today is the last day of the Hawaii State Legislature. Now, most discussions post-legislative session deal with what passed and what didn't, and the regular scorecard approach. And for the viewers out there, you're going to be able to get that. The media will be full of it starting from tomorrow and Monday and so forth, all the scorecards. This is a special show for the political junkies. We have with us today Blake Oshiro, who is a Vice President with Capital Consultants, which means that he spends his entire day, every day during the course of the session, dealing with our legislators. But even more interesting, prior to becoming Vice President of Capital Consultants, Blake also was a member of that legislative in the House of Representatives. You were a majority leader? Correct, for three years. Which is a very powerful position. So, welcome. Thank you very much, Governor. We would love to have you here. Right as we speak, drama is happening in paradise. Yes, it is quite a tumultuous day for the last day of the legislative session, which normally is a lot more just ceremonial than everybody's saying or goodbyes. This time you're going to see some changes on both sides, the Senate and the House, and it's quite major shifts, actually. And it's unusual. Very unusual. I was thinking, doing my entire career, I don't remember when change, well, first of all, it was very rare that change happened, now midterm, right, so the first session of the two-year term for the House, I think that maybe Jimmy Aki's presidency and the change was probably the last time that happened. But it only happened with one House. Yeah, yeah. This is something more interesting. So, first of all, we'll start with the House of Representatives. Yes. Where you were a majority leader. And now the current majority leader, Scott Psyche, is poised to, as I understand it, replace the Speaker of the House, Josuke. Correct. Give me something. So, you know, this is probably a long-standing background on the dynamics between the House members. You know, if you may recall, about five years ago was when Josuke came into power. Right. And he had actually, at that time, replaced Calvin Sey, who was the Speaker for 12 years, but he previously had replaced Joe. Were you with the majority leader for Calvin or for Joe? Correct. For Calvin. For Calvin, for three years. Okay, so you got replaced. Correct, yes, yes. So, you know, Joe was in power, then Calvin came into power, then Joe came back into power, and now it's going to be Scott Psyche. All of those changes, from Joe to Calvin, Calvin back to Joe, are largely attributable to Scott Psyche and Sylvia Luk. Those shifts and the balance of power occurred during those factions. So, now Scott Psyche, who has been part of all of this for all these years, is finally going to be front and center, publicly the Speaker. Correct. So, no longer can you sit behind the screen and manipulate the Emperor games. You actually got to be out front. Yeah, yeah. And the speakership is, you know, it's a difficult position because you have 51 members. And the Democratic caucus alone, you have, you know, 45. And so, when people talk about this idea of herding cats, that's really what it's like. And it's a bunch of cats, right? It's a big bunch. You know, in the Senate, it's half the number. It's 25. And it's a lot of herding cats. But those tend to think of themselves more like lions, right? They have a different mentality about themselves and about their position because basically there's only 25 of them compared to 51 in the House. Right. So, you know, Dicky Wong, who is, Richard Wong was a very famous Senate president, as you know. And he used to tell me that the president's job and the speakers was being a social worker. He says that people mistake what the qualification for that job is. It's listening to other people's problems all day long. Yeah, it is. It's a lot of management of personalities when you're the speaker and or the majority leader. You're really doing a lot of traffic cop stuff. You know, overall what I tend to tell people is when it comes to the big, big ticket items, the big priority issues, that's where the speaker and the leadership and the majority have a lot of influence. But on the day-to-day, hundreds of other bills that are moving through the process, they're really more like a traffic cop. And it really is the committee chairs, yeah, kind of doing their thing. And oftentimes committee chairs get into their own kind of turf battles. Sounds like you enjoyed it. Yeah. It was quite interesting. I mean, sometimes you're playing a referee. Sometimes you're playing a mediator. Sometimes you just started the arbitrator and judge and say, no, this is the way it is. So why does someone want to become speaker? I think there really is an opportunity to change the direction of the chamber and of the state. And you really do have a lot of influence in terms of the high priority items and agenda items. And that's in large part where the leadership... And one of the high priority items this session, or at least one of the big issues this session, was the funding for the Mass Transit Project here on Oahu. Correct. Which takes us to what happened with that particular issue and how the leadership changes fit into all of this. So as I understand it, the House came up with one position, which is normal. And then in the Senate, on the Senate side of this scenario, the Senate as a body, the Senate president, the traffic cop in the Senate and others wanted to actually fund the city. I don't know, they probably had some conditions, but they wanted to give a 10-year extension to the excise tax. But the ways and means chairman, Jill Takuta, apparently didn't agree with her body. Correct. She was resistant to the idea of giving the city a free 10-year pass, was how she called it, giving them what they wanted without accountability. And so you had the tension of the people that supported rail, wanted them to have the full funding, and this is the other people feeling like there needed to be somebody holding the city accountable. And that was the tension you kind of saw coming to a head in the bill. Which takes us to Jill, because the last time there was this dramatic shift with the ways and means chairman in my memory occurred with Ben Kytonam. But it occurred after the second half of the two-year session. Which, by the way, I should let people know. Normally the state legislature counts sessions as a two-year process. Correct, yes. And so what we're dealing with today is actually the ending of just half of this two-year process. But nevertheless, in the past, the Senate waited until Ben served the full two-year process, and then they changed it. They did the same kind of thing. But this is right in the middle of the session. How unprecedented is that? It's fairly unusual. A lot of the reorganization happens after the election when you have a new slew of legislators coming in, and then people count the numbers, and then they kind of see where things lie in terms of the organization. For it to happen at the end of session, you may recall two sessions ago on the, you know, the second to the last day was when Ron Kochi became Senate president, taking over from Donna Kim. And that was unprecedented. That was very, very unusual. And so I just now begin to wonder if we're starting to see this sort of end of session sort of time and opportunity to reorg is now going to be the new norm. Could very well be. You know, it's interesting to me, but that change in the middle of doing things is usually reserved for city councils, or county councils where there aren't really distinct time frames. And so Kochi, as you know, both Kochi and former president Senator Kim were members of the county councils. So they were actually kind of aware of doing things like that. And usually, at least in my 11 years in the legislature, every session kind of ends with a lot of people being unhappy. If you think about it, there's hundreds of bills. At the end, all of them are not going to pass. Somebody's going to end up not happy. A handful of people will end up upset. Sometimes the emotion is higher than others. But I think in this session what you saw was emotions were at a really high, high peak. And that was why you saw these shifts kind of occurring just at the end. You know, whether you're for it or against it, the bill really was the thing that sort of brought to light the fractures between the House and the Senate, and also the fractures within each chamber. And it became such a hot issue that that's where people ended up having to pick sides. And once you picked the side, then the only thing you could do was try to force it on the other guys. Well, one of the things that may happen which would be unfortunate is that it might be a creation of instability. I mean, in the past, every session, people are unhappy with this, or that project didn't get funded and the like. But it's usually, you tolerate it. It's part of the game. But when you get to this point where you actually start taking people out, all those little slights get to be more important than they might have otherwise been. And so, you know, I think we all should have some concern. This may become, unfortunately, maybe more in the future. Maybe it doesn't matter anymore. Yeah, I mean, I'm hoping not. There's a thing to be said about the stability of the institution and the need for there to be some reliability on transition between one session to the next session and carrying things over. You know, sometimes change is good, but sometimes abrupt change may not necessarily be the best medicine for the problem. You know, since this is a show for us political junkies, one of the normal situations is that when you reorganize a body, or you organize a body, generally speaking, the speaker or the president and the ways he means chairman or the finance chairman, that's two critical positions. And they usually walk in lockstep. But it didn't seem like this was happening in this particular case. Is that correct? I mean, was there, why would these two positions actually be either challenged or challenged by the leadership of the institution? Yeah, I think it really goes back to some of the underlying sort of fractures within each body, right? For those of your political junkie watchers, you know, no speaker or president comes into power purely on their own. They come together because different factions form, combining to create the requisite numbers, 26 in the House and 13 in the Senate. And based off of that, that's how you determine your structure. And so oftentimes what you need to do is make sure that your two factions, usually the head, the speaker or the president, and the money chair are kind of in different factions because you're bringing together two different groups in order to rise above. Sometimes that's not always the case. I would say like under Calvin Sey's watch when he had Marcus Oshiro, Marcus was his kind of number one lieutenant and so therefore, you know, he and Calvin were very, very close. But you know, in the Senate, Joe's faction was different than Ron's faction. And we're going to come back to talk about this inside of politics right after this short break. But stay with us, folks. This is the most exciting program. Thank you. Hi, I'm Carol Cox. I'm the new host of Eyes on Hawaii. Make sure you stay in the know on Hawaii. Join us on Tuesdays at 12 noon. We will see you then. Aloha. At DiveHeart, we believe freedom is all of these and more regardless of your ability. DiveHeart wants to help you escape the bonds of this world and defy gravity. Since 2001, DiveHeart has helped children, adults and veterans of all abilities go where they have never gone before. DiveHeart has helped them transition to their new normal. Search diveheart.org and share our mission with others. And in the process, help people of all abilities imagine the possibilities in their lives. Dive live talk shows from noon to 5 p.m. every weekday and then streams our earlier shows all night long. Great content for Hawaii from Think Tech. Welcome back to Talk Story with John Waihe and my guests. Representative, Vice President, Blake Oshiro. Former Majority Leader. By the way, if you've got a question, our number here is 415-871-2474. Okay, so all of this is happening. All of these factions are floating around. Exciting stuff. Where's Joe Suki and Marcus Oshiro in the house? That's the old faction. That's the ruling faction of yesteryear, right? Yeah, Calvin Sey. Calvin Sey, Calvin Sey. Calvin and Marcus, they still have their little group. Their little group, unfortunately, the numbers have dwindled down a little bit. And so they're largely left a little bit on the sidelines. So they weren't part of any of this? No, no. I think there was an attempt in the last minute to see if they could combine with somebody. But seeing as how Scott Psyche had the numbers, I think the numbers were the numbers. It probably went the way that water should flow, which is downhill. But it would have been so historically interesting if Calvin made a return, right? Wouldn't that be kind of like, whoa, what happened here? Yes. Because he replaces Suki, Suki comes back with things. It would have been like, it's not to be. But yeah, they're still there. They're still doing their thing. But they just weren't able to really be a big significant factor in this view. Okay, so now what happens? I mean, if we have new leadership, is there any kind of sense that you might have the change in direction that might occur? On the city level, city council level, when Ernie Martin was chairman of the council, there was a lot of friction with the mayor's office, or at least appearance-wise. Now with Ron Minore being chairman of the city council, there seems to be a deliberate attempt to work with the administration. Yes. Will the relationships change as a result of this reorganization? Will it mean they'll be closer to the governor, farther apart from the executive branch, or no change at all? I don't know if I foresee much change happening, actually. You know, Rep Psyche and Sylvia Luke, they have been cohorts for a long time. Yeah, we get back to the idea of the speaker and the ways in which they are being close. Correct. I doubt there will be any time where you see publicly them diverging on anything. In the Senate, now that it appears to be Senator De La Cruz taking over, he is also with Ron Cochise's group, and so I would also expect that you would see those two sort of walking hand in hand. So we get back to a more traditional model of organization. Correct. And so I think that there will be, at least on appearance's sake, from the outside. It'll look like the two chambers, the two power positions, are kind of walking together. Whether those two positions will now be able to bridge between them and the House in the Senate, that has to be seen. Vis-a-vis the administration. Correct. Well, you know, what's interesting to me was that the governor seemed so hands-off. And frankly, in my own experience, I don't know if I could have stayed away from this, but I am a junkie. I mean, this show is a personal indulgence. Okay, it's a personal indulgence. It's one for me. But I don't know if I could have stayed out of it, but he seemed to have stayed out of the fray. And I wonder whether, as a result of these changes, he'd get more involved in the future or less involved. You know, this is just my speculation based off of his behavior in the past three years. I would say it's not going to change much. You know, he, good or bad, some people interpret it as a bad thing. Some people interpret it as a good thing. He just has respect for the legislative process. And so he rarely, rarely intervenes in that process. You rarely see him coming down with a directive or any sort of indication of what direction he wants to see an issue take. So he kind of hands over his budget and then he identifies his priorities and sort of whatever happens happens. And in large part, even some of his directors, when I have spoken to them, say, you know, it is sort of hands off. He lets us run in our lane and do whatever we need to do. Sometimes they end up crossing hairs a little and that confuses the legislature. But the governor has a very almost sort of deliberative sort of respect for that body and its process to let it do whatever it's going to do. So on one side, the good way of looking at it is he respects the process. The criticism is that he's not really providing clear leadership. So it depends on the issue. Well, you know, what's interesting is that all of this sort of saw the rise of certain people on the executive branch. It seems like that I don't know whether this means that the governor intends to take a more active role in the future, but he just brought on, I guess, Danny Shee. Danny Shee, who has been around actually since he and I, when the young Democrats together. So he's passed Medicaid age, I think. Not one of the young guys anywhere, but he's brought in. If Dan's talent is actually pulling stuff together, prioritizing and interfering, if you will. You know, it's going to be interesting to see how that all fits. It will. I think there is some new faces up there on the fifth floor, and we'll see how it all kind of shakes out. I think now that you're going to have Psyche there, you'll have De La Cruz controlling the money on the Senate side. It'll be a new dynamic. De La Cruz controlling the money. I mean, forgive me, Senator, but De La Cruz forgiving the money is like putting the fox in the henhouse. Well, he is always looking for the economic development opportunity. The guy is extremely creative. He comes up with ideas about how to spur economic development that to me are amazing. And worthy of conversation. He is not a bean counter. That's my point. He's definitely not a bean counter. He is an issues person. He tries to, as you say, support economic development. Yeah, and he likes to see projects and handle projects and see them bloom. He's not one to just kind of say... Well, he's usually the guy that the ways and means chairman is restraining. Yes. So this is going to be interesting. It is. It will be interesting dynamic. Yeah. And I actually think it might be positive. Well, anyway, the other interesting individual that's come out risen up is Senator Cahilly. You know, his father died. And I think it was Governor Abercrombie that put him, you know, appointed him in office. And then he won his own term. But he seemed to have been for a really sophomore player in the state Senate. Kind of a busy, active, you know. Yes. One of those, what's the name of the bunny? Yeah. With the battery. Yeah. He had a much more front-facing role this session. You know, he was very proactive and out front on a lot of issues. And so he's one to definitely watch and see how it's going to come along. I think he's going to be seeing how the heel fits into all of this. And as a result, whether that means that we'll see a continuation. Or maybe even a resurgence of neighbor island power in all of this. Because it seems like a lot of money went to the big island. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting. You'll have Ron Kochi continuing from, you know, from Kauai. And now you're going to have, on the House side, it's going to be Psyche, Urban Honolulu and Luke, who is New Uwano. So it'll be an interesting dynamic once again to see this sort of. Real, real fast because we are running out of time. What happened to death with dignity? Just real quick. So the bill made it out of the Senate in a pretty strong vote of only three nos and 22 eyes. Unfortunately, when it got to the House, there was just a lot of reluctance. I wouldn't say there was strong opposition. It wasn't where people were jumping up and down and saying they didn't want the bill. I think there was just a lot of hesitation as to whether this is the right time. Yes, no. Will there be a special session? I think there will be. And will the death with dignity bill have a chance to come up in the special session? No. In a special session, they have to start off with a new bill, three readings on both sides. So I don't see them reviving an old bill and putting it back in the hopper. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining us. And especially thank you to Representative, Vice President, Lake Oshiro, for this insider's view of what's happening in our Hawaii State Legislature.