 Yes, today we are all about the matter of the heart, affection, attraction, emotion, love, and more. It's believed that these are the feelings leading to marriage. So we ask, in a polygamist marriage, are these feelings present? Very good perspective there John. Well, a lot of people tell you that some people say love is all there is to it. Some people say for God's sake, forget love Joe. And so as we take a look at polygamy, we will be looking at all of that and trying to find out who does it really benefit. Well, for better understanding, we have on the show today two gurus on this matter. Dior DME who kicks off with the conversation and Isyama Lawal, our second guest. Okay, and before we go into it proper. Yes. We haven't seen in like seven days since the last time we were here. That's right Helen. And I've missed you. How are you doing? I missed you too. And how are you John? I'm doing good Helen. What kept you awake in the week? What kept me awake during the week? I was looking forward to the holiday. Tomorrow being workers day, first of May. And then you know now we have a double whammy. There is the workers day holiday and there is also the Muslim holiday coming together. So yes, that kept me excited looking forward to what's happening. I wonder if the workers are looking forward to any special day this year? Well, they usually would at least look forward to the holiday. But you see one other thing that also kept me thinking is the topic for today. Yes. Polygamy. And you know what Helen, the song by John Legend. All of you, all of me loves all of you. So I wonder is he speaking as a polygamist or as a one man, one wife person? Because if he says all of me loves all of you. Is it all of you as one person or all of you as two, three, four, five? All of you as a society. No, no, no. As a group of wives. As a group of wives. So well anyway. From that introduction that a certain number of countries accept or are polygamists in nature. There's a lot of polygamy and they believe in it. I saw a couple of videos reports on BBC Voice of Africa yesterday and so many families who have gone into it. One man with as many as, okay fella, fella. I don't know anybody who beats the record of fella yet. Has anybody beat fella's record yet? Of 27. Of 27 wives. You know. 27 as in wives, so minus the concubines. Minus. You know. Not to my knowledge. And so I'm beginning to wonder about the capacity of a man who is able to handle the intricacies of marriage and humanity in the female gender when there is a situation of one man plus more than one woman. I'm wondering more that what happens? How deep is your love when you have several spouses? And can you share love really? Can you share? Can you love more than one person? Jesus. Anyway, that's what has kept me thinking like you asked. All right. That's what has kept me thinking. Okay, so remember romance today is with polygamy. But before we set off on this conversation proper, let's see a report that the producer has put together on this very interesting subject, polygamy. Okay. What's the late a laugh you had? It's what I had 200. It's just to, I mean the thing is the whole thing is about a man for every woman. So I don't think there is a big deal in African culture to have more than one wife. Yes, the colonel has brought one man, one wife. But then which one is better? Taking them off the shelves and having more than one wife. It's only truly healthy. Better than having a mistress where your children would not know their sibling from another mother until you die. Islam allows you to marry four wives. There are conditions. But when you come to look at these conditions are not, I mean the Quran wants you to marry. You can marry as many as four. Though you have some Muslim settings. You have those who have harims of more than four wives. But having four wives is predicated on the fact that one, you must be able to maintain equity among them. It's not possible. Can't you maintain equity among four women from different sources? You have four children, you cannot maintain equity among them. So sometimes I think our interpretation of all these Biblical or Quranic injunctions is usually done to suit our own taste. That a man married, a Muslim man married four wives does not preclude him from having a side-chicks after all. Solomon had many wives and he said he had side-chicks. The social media has made a lot of human beings interlopers in matters that highly concerns them. Matters that they highly know anything about. Somebody just say picks a wife. I mean we pretend a lot on the social media. And even in public view we make so much nice. Somebody decides to have more than one wife. So who's business is it? As long as the women are not complaining. As long as he is not marrying a minor. Many of us will pretend a lot. We pretend, okay, because I married my wife in church. Well, I remember when I was getting married, my wife was informed that remember he's entitled to more wives. Can you cope with this? She said yes. If I decide not to marry, that's my taste. If I decide to have more, I don't think anybody should come and start pontificating to me how personal relationships should be kept out of the social media. If somebody decides not to... Okay, that's the point of view. An expert there talking about polygamy. Is he an expert in polygamy? Yes, he was an expert in polygamy. The funny bit is that he talked about taking them off the shelves. I wonder what that means. And he also talked about equity. Is it really possible for you to go in and say, look, I'm fair to three, to four, to five, to ten. Anyway, I'm sure that our guests today will help us out. Okay, so once again, remember that the topic for today is polygamy. And to set up the conversation is our first guest, who is ready to go. Daiyo Adeyemi. He's the founder of Catalyst Men Network International here in Lagos, a global men's coach. He's also a professional counselor. He's a healing therapist and behavioral change specialist. He's married to one wife and blessed with children. And hello there. Thank you for being a part of the show today. Hello, Mr. Daiyo. Mr. Adeyemi, can you hear us? Hello, Mr. Adeyemi, can you hear us? Hello. Okay. Mr. Adeyemi, you're welcome. Hello. We can hear you. You're welcome, Mr. Adeyemi. Mr. Adeyemi, we can hear you. Can you hear us? Confirm that you can hear us, please. Hello. Okay. We will have to come back to you. We seem to be having some... Excellent. Thank you. Beautiful, Mr. Adeyemi. So, of course, let's quickly move on because we've lost a bit of time. Yes, you know, the topic is on polygamy. And we want you to help us unravel a few things. Let's start from the beginning, like they always say. Now, polygamy has been with us for so long. And we all just simply assume that we know it. We know it very well. Could you please help us tell us... So, what really is polygamy? Okay. Simply described, polygamy is having more than one spouse. And so, it's not defined whether a man has more than one wife or not. But it's having more than one spouse. A woman can decide to have more than one husband. It's polygamy. Okay. And... The other thing is polygamy. Okay. Where a man has multiple wives. Or specifically polygamy. Where a woman has... Where women have whole husbands. And it happened recently in Nigeria. We have had twins. Two boys, two guys married a single wife. Okay. Earlier, the other time, you were asking if there was anybody who beat the last record. Yes. Yes. Someone beat. The man from Niger State asked about 99 wives. Ooh. Very passed on. Yeah. Yeah. There's a spiritualist in Nigeria who has 99 wives. Can't live in wives. Not... It's not transition with just the 99 wives. Alive. Before he passed on, I did your prayer. Almost 100 plus. I hope that's recorded in the Guinness Book of Records. Yeah. Go through two. Yeah. So many kids. In the... In the western world, it's called plural wives. The Mormons, the Church of Latter-day Saints, practice what they call plural wives. They regularly have the right to marry more than one wife. In the UK, there is what we call trophy wives. Whereby somebody, a man in the city, goes back to the village to marry. And they take the wife. It's called trophy wives. So, trophy wives are taking a new middle now. Whereby the man becomes very rich. Marry is a younger wife. And originally, it is the people in the UK city who has one wife. And because the Church of England propels polygamy, it will go back to the village, marry, and keep a trophy wife. So, the issue of polygamy and the definition, honestly, is very... Coming back to contemporary world, I want to tell you that as... A practitioner in the men's world, I say, a next part. Full-runs men's network. There is what we call multiple partner syndrome. You may not legally be married to another woman. For some, there are three or four other five women in your lifetime. Extra wives, side chicks, you know. Wives compete. It may not be done openly because of your economy, because of this. But even in this part of the world, despite Christianity and Islam, we see a vision of multiple partners. And that is both ways. Women also keep multiple partners despite having one aspect. So, the hypocrisy is on. Okay, but this is not the area where the women are championing the women equality thing. The margin is totally almost non-existent, if I can use that word. When you compare the ratio of men having more wives against women having more husbands. The other one sounds so abnormal, but we'll get to that later. Sometimes you read from the internet and they tell you about the population of men to women. And so, it becomes like wicked for us to insist that there must be one man and one wife. What happens to the rest of women? That's another angle to look at it. So, but being married to one spouse is quite a mouthful. Lately, we hear so many disturbing scenarios and stories coming out of marriage is love turning sour and so many bad things happening to either party. So, I'm asking, why would anyone, you know, with the challenge and the trouble of one man, one wife, why would anyone want to even add Moala to his... Okay. Okay. Thank you for that question. From the numbers of domestic violence at heart, how many is coming from polygamor school? Let's be honest with ourselves. How many do you hear polygamors who are stealing their husbands? Is this single one man, one wife? Were there violence, battery, of course. Let me also please quickly tell our brother that he said, can you love another one man at the same time, or equally? The questions are often always asked in this. At every point in time, sir, or man, you have always thought more than one person. You've always loved your wife, your mom, your parents, your kids, one way or the other. Equally? Different things. Different relationships. Good, different relationships. So, but because it comes to intimate partners, because it comes to what you call intensity of relationship, we start to identify that love as one man, one wife, one wife, one man. Because of intensity, but you've always thought more than one person at a time. What we are saying is that for the sake of equitable living, let's have one man, one wife. But like the Bible says, in the beginning it was not so. Let me also tell you this. Polygamy has nothing to do with Christianity. Nothing at all to do with Christianity. The reason is simple. When Christianity started, it was after the birth of Jesus, or after the death of Jesus. There was no Christianity when it was alive. So every historical record and leading to polygamy has nothing to do with Christianity. There are just historical stories to add that more of what happened pre-Jesus time. After Jesus, he said, you don't have to be not true. Okay. Now, coming back to contemporary time, there is what we call globalization. There is what we call economic action. There is what we call the intermixing of cultures. Whereby, if you know what is going on in the western world, you understand the economics, you understand there are some aspects of your culture that is very good with the address, with the organized banking system. If it's okay for us, let us go ahead and be sure to be part of what is good about the western world. What is good about the western culture? We are not traditional people like a lot of people. Okay. Now, even giving all of that, you know, economy, culture, and all of that globalization, it is still a matter of choice for one to be polygamist or not. Now, when does it become illegal in this country, Nigeria? Are you there? Yes. Are you there? I'm there. Did you get the last question? When does it become illegal to be polygamist in Nigeria? Please come again. When does it become illegal to be polygamist in the Nigerian context? Okay. When does it become illegal? Yes. Who makes it illegal? Because we are told that in court, at the registry, we are only allowed one wife. Okay. So it means that generally, Yes. We have one nation and multiple countries. The laws that play out in the Northern Nigeria is not the same as one that plays out in Southern Nigeria. Okay. I am not familiar, but even in Southern Nigeria, there are several ways you can marry, customary marriage, what you call the church marriage or the legal marriage, what you call cohabitation under the laws in the Western Nigeria. If you cohabit with a woman in child or no child, for more than one year, she is legally required. Please check out the law. If the woman gives birth and after 12 months, she gives birth to a baby and you are cohabited, you see your wife under the law. So when you are talking about, is it acceptable, is legally acceptable? Yes. If you see one house of birth member who went to the chamber, the chamber to go and display six wives, you should have been arrested if it's illegal. Okay. So if you marry according to customary marriage and according to Islamic rights, but if you marry according to the civil code, the legal code, Yes. You have to do that to do us part. Okay. So in the Northern Nigeria, it's not illegal. In the Southern Nigeria, it is legal and illegal, depending on the kind of marriage, that you go into. Okay. Wow. So really, we can't say that it's illegal. There are options. There are options. Okay. So, but just looking at our culture and the practice that obtains here in Nigeria, we seem to be having some conflicts with the position of faith, of religion. You know, cultural faith and religion seem to be clashing when you talk about polygamy. Can you emancipate more on this for us? Okay. Okay. Cultural faith and religion. Yes. Please, let's just collapse it to truth. Okay. Culture and religion. Let's also situate this with the contemporary culture. Hmm. Where with you? Where with you, sir? Let's also situate this with the contemporary culture and the traditional culture that we have. Now, cultural in Nigeria is not in case polygamy, polygamot marriage. It's not. More contemporary and because of the... Without looking at, oh, my wife has married, sorry, my neighbor has married one wife. Oh, I cannot get it up the next one year. Life is so tough. We have seen the implication, we have seen the implications of polygamy, for example, whereby sibling rivalry, people jealous of each other, you can't train your kids, so many of the negative impact. So everybody starts to key in to what makes life easier for all of us. At least on the surface by value, monogamy looks very good to you. Well, there's not a piece of mind. There's no guarantee to strategy. Marriage is not a way to get to love because there are so many people who are married and they are not in love. But for the sake of the church, for the sake of society, for the sake of contemporary education and economy, let's make it one man, one wife. My whole position is, whatever works for you, not what makes you happy, whatever works for you. So it's like you have an open check. That's what makes you happy. Whatever works for you. Yeah, what makes you happy now, what makes you happy later? Because you have an extra baggage of a wife or a husband, and the children are coming to eat. When the responsibility of taking care of them comes to you face to face, your happiness will disappear fast. And you don't discover, wow, I shouldn't have done this. Well, it works for you, fine. It's not terrible. It works for me. Okay, Mr. Ademi. Now, I think this whole discussion is even holding because there's another word, you know, that actually is a running mate. It's crashing. Which is adultery. You know, some Nigerians recently, I even quoted as saying that polygamy is not adultery. So how do we defend that, if we have to? No, polygamy is not adultery. It's not impidelity. It is legally bringing it back in. So it has legal backing. It's a legal backing to adultery. Okay. Hello? We lost him again. Oh. Hello, can you hear us? We have a few more minutes with you. Can you still hear us? Okay. So why we try to get Mr. Ademi, and I would have really wanted him to answer that question, because now what he's saying is that it's not adultery. It's not fornication. It's not infidelity. That you have legal backing. Okay. Mr. Ademi, are you back with us? Yes, I am. Yes, I was saying that, you know, some people are saying polygamy is not adultery. Could you defend that? It is not because you can legally bring it back. Why? And I was sharing the experience with you that my own mom is the third wife. Okay. We tell my mom, baby third wife, I will be on this program today. Okay. That is the truth about you. And where I come from, that part of what I come from, in the earlier days, I say, this is my concubine. Okay. And none of them, they are cool with it. So infidelity, cheating, adultery is situated within a religion that we find ourselves in. Mostly, Muslim and Christianity. The traditional religions will see that way. It's part of the game of life. And don't forget that both of us have been culturally shaped by Christianity, by Islam. Wow. And you know that, as you were saying it, I was remembering that in the earlier days, I hear that the wives, the wives at home would run into a pretty girl somewhere in the market, please, and go home and say to their husband, we found someone that you should be interested in. And they help to get a new wife home, right? Yes. I wish you could go back to those days. Some generosity. Yes, go ahead, sir. In the particular community that my immediate senior sister married into in Kogi State, a Yoruba community, the wife who married another wife for the husband paid the dow. And so, the original wife of the man owes the wife and the children that she gives birth to, for him. It is the wife, the first wife that was sourced for that younger girl, married legally and they hand Yoruba to girls back. A Yoruba that's there. So, if you reach expansively, if you travel expansively, some of the things we are saying they are still happening, but because of the changing cultural patterns and westernization and globalization, they are changing it. It has only been part of us. So really, I think at the end of the day we should, I mean, we should stop worrying ourselves about the fallout of polygamy because really the actors will define what happens, how they want it, okay? What business do we as outsiders have regarding how it is set up and all of that. That is legal, it's not legal. Do you think we should just leave them alone? Let me tell you, something happened in the social media. Yule Dochi came up, he said he has an extra wife and then he and everybody started talking. And interestingly, my network, the Katanisman Network International belongs to Degos in 2030. And that conversion came up whereby 98% of the members are women, activists, advocates, human rights fighters who are women. So the issue came up and the most question I share with most men who are women, Yule Dochi is an adult. Yule Dochi is an adult. The other lady involved is an adult. So if two adults decide to do it, who are you to define it as adult? They have a right to choose, they have a right to what they want to do. It is wrong of you to not bring your second wife to my home and say come and feed her, or your children. So if you can handle her, if it's your headache, it's your headache, it's not mine. So, adults, look, let's be honest, please, me and I have four children to deal with because they are above anything. I tell them I can only give you directions about life. I can't make your decisions for me. I will be a bad father if I keep making decisions for you at the same time. But this is direction. If you choose as my sons, my daughters, or my grandmother, what is your decision? Leave with it. But if I give you life, I'll give you the choice you want to have. Absolutely. As we get ready to say thank you for being with us on this segment, if polygamy is none of anybody's business, why is polyandry less fashionable here in Nigeria? I mean, why would anybody frown at a woman having more than one husband, for example? Okay. But we are actually also not planning about a woman having more than one husband. We also plan about a woman, a housewife specifically, also have an extramarital case. Let me tell you, women, wives are not biologically quiet to be able to handle polygamy. But they are emotionally powerful to handle it. Hmm. Women, it's not, anybody talking about polygamy, we are not talking about women who are after four children, three belongs to another man, say marriage. Let's be honest with ourselves. She can't keep those children for 25 years, 28 years, the guy will not know. Emotional resilience of a touch. Vice-versa. Happens also with it, yeah. I wish I could have you to lead us to present this as this. Because it's very debatable. But what we are saying is that polyandry, honestly, biologically, culturally, religiously, economically does not pay. Because when you look at it, is she going to pick the piece? Even the western world that we are copying, may she pick the piece? Dispatch the independence of the woman. Yes. So, sorry, don't say that. Do I completely agree with you on this? Do I totally agree with you? No, you don't have to. But please let me tell you, when you get to legal aspects of the western union of marriage, when a man has come from his woman in the western world, he placed a liberty. He placed child support, heavily. What you refuse to pay by being responsible you pay through the courts. So, eventually, the mask he takes out of the woman. You can't escape. So if the woman is ready for polyandry, let me say I'm available because my wife is out of the house. She should be running for. I can take care of her. And the peace of God is gone. You know, Mr. Mr. Mr. I think this table that you are shaking, we cannot completely shake it today. Yes, at all. Certainly, we've been able to deal with the subject dispassionately with your professional input and all of that. And we really must say that we appreciate what you have done for us today. But the conversation continues. You know, we're going to have to get you back again. Let's maybe this time bring you into the studio. So we can see. I know. And talk about this very interesting topic. Polygamy. Thank you so much. Thank you. Let me also state this publicly. In case you are in mind, I want to exit this. Please talk to the producer. Because it can be complex. It can be complicated. You can feel like right now. And then it does for you that I need to exit this. You don't know the way. Talk to the producer on plus TV who will help you with wisdom and strategies to exit peacefully. Thank you. Thank you so much. At least now I know that the pocket aspects, the financial aspect, the fact that the man is the one who picks the bill at both ends. That is one reason. The second reason is that the woman is not biologically wired to handle. Okay, now. That's a matter for another day. All right. This is today with John and Helen. And on behalf of both the men and the women who have benefited immensely from your insight, once again let's say thank you for finding time to be a part of the show today. Does polygamy really benefit anyone? If yes, who? Our second guest is Sio Malawal. Has the answer to this particular question. And probably a few others. We meet her after the break. This is today with John and Helen once again. And it's been a pleasure so far. I've learned a lot. I hope you have. We'll take a break right about now.