 Alright, so we are now going to shift over to our panel discussion to talk about representation in fashion and I am very excited as we talk about representation of black Americans in contemporary fashion. I am excited to share with you three distinguished guests and so let me just go ahead and jump in and introduce them now. We are going to get into a conversation about what representation means for them, how they are kind of working through creating an impact or shift in the fashion industry and the larger culture when it comes to representation. So my guest service follows, Erin Rose Phillip gained fame on social media by noting the lack of representation of both trans women of color and persons with disabilities within the fashion industry. Represented by a community in New York she has emerged as a trailblazer determined to reflect her communities as a model. We also have Caroline A. Wenga who is the Chief Executive Officer of Essence, the number one media technology and commerce company dedicated to a global and multi-generational audience of more than 30 million black women in communities. She also holds a position of Chief Growth Officer for Essence Ventures where she leads the company's commitment to serving its community deeply via critical multi-platform content, digital and virtual offerings and cultural events. We also have Kennedy Carter who is a fine art and editorial photographer with a primary focus on black subjects. Her work highlights the aesthetics and socio-political aspects of blackness as well as the overlooked beauties of the black experience which involve skin, texture, trauma, peace, love and community. Thank you all for taking the time to join this discussion and as I've let you all know I'm just, it's such a privilege to have you all here and I know you have so much to say and we've got about 30 minutes. So I want to start off with each of you asking if you could describe where you grew up, what did experience look like, what did representation look like for you and how did it shape who you are today and we can start with anyone who ever wants to jump in. Hi everyone, thank you so much for having me. My name is Aeron Rose-Philip, my pronouns are she, her and I would be so happy to start off with this conversation. I grew up, I was born in Antigua and Barbuda, a small island in the Caribbean and I immigrated here with my mom and dad when I was three years old in search of medical attention being that when I was born I was diagnosed with cerebral palsy and because there was limited resources in Antigua to take care of that we have to come to America to kind of figure that out and from then on when I was here I was enrolled in school as a baby and I had to stay here. Representation, trying to find representation throughout my life had been really, really hard up until I was older for many reasons being that I was young and trans, I am convinced that I was trans my entire life and there was no language for that so I had no language to even express myself or express myself to other people growing up especially as a young black girl of trans experience at that and also I was honestly predominantly around a lot of white people growing up and because of that that very much informed my experience in terms of like I never truly felt like I saw myself outside of my parents or my family from Antigua I never had enough blackness or black people in my life to enforce the fact that it's like okay to be black and it's okay to look and feel confident and secure and happily live within blackness. My parents instilled that in me but I didn't see that in the world around me and I think that if I did I would have been really good for me. Thank you. Kennedy, Caroline wants to build on that. I'm happy to go next and excited to be here with this panel. I think you know Kimberly you talked about being excited to be with us I think it's also exciting for us to be together because rarely do you see this group of people have the opportunity to sit in one conversation together so I'm excited to be here. My story is I'm Kenyan. I was born in Kenya on the eastern coast of Africa that is where I was born. I am a member of the Luya and Luo tribes and so for me my upbringing in Kenya was really related to how issues of aesthetic whether it be how tall we are, how dark our skin is, the language we speak, the clothing we wear, the decoration of the textile all of that had significant meaning because on that in my country on the continent right there are particular fabrics tied to particular tribes there are particular facial features tied to particular tribes right all of these things beyond your name and what you're called and so I grew up in Kenya where there were multiple tribes multiple languages all of these things but what was absolutely true about my upbringing in Kenya that I think is important for the conversation today was the important of aesthetic being a part of how you made your mark in the world right. It wasn't a opt in it was an opt like you can't opt out because you are born into tradition and culture based on your tribal affiliation or who you are just in general within the country that comes with it some expectations of what you wear when you celebrate what you wear when you're mourning what you wear when you're working what you wear when you're carrying your baby on your back which you wear right and so it was never a discussion of fashion it was a discussion of representing who you were and not doing that was almost in violation of who you are biologically because there was so much tied to how those particular aesthetics related to who you were tribally or within the nation originally. Now the interesting thing is transitioning over to the US at the age of 10 right and encountering then what was even more amplified westernized perspectives on what formal wear is on what business wear is on what casual wear is created a lot of dissonance for me to be honest because while we were colonized in Kenya by the British there were still some Kenyan traditions that remain coming to the US the westernization of dress was definitely a place of conflict for me and then I'm just in junior high where you know junior high is a gauntlet anyway everybody just needs congratulations for making it through but but we just it became this thing that had me confused until a few years ago I just decided to go back to representing what I knew but with a modern aesthetic that made it my own which is continuing to represent who I am culturally but having that sit with aesthetics that I dig that are modern that are architectural and finding the place where I would start to define what business dress meant what formal meant what I was going to wear when I was talking to people and I think that is probably where I found my piece thank you and I am going to want to circle back to seeing how you navigate that with business dress and how you we can we can talk about that Kennedy hi everyone thank you guys for having me and it is so great to be in conversation with all of you guys I'm extremely happy about it I grew up in the south that was born in Charlottesville Virginia which I consider Virginia to be the south I moved to Texas for a bit and then when my dad received a job at Duke I moved to Durham North Carolina and I still live here today I've been doing photography for the last five years I started when I was in high school and I think when I started and I was looking into I remember being in my sophomore year of high school and looking into I guess black women photographers that were making work especially in regards to just fashion photography in particular and I remember the only one I really was able to find at that moment was I believe her name is Shaniqua Jarvis I think that's how you pronounce me and so I just remember seeing that and then not having a lot of a point of reference but I think the thing about representation and I think the thing about progress is when it comes down to it you kind of just have to put the things that are missing in the world into the world and maybe even become that thing and yeah so after that research and continuing for a good deal of time I ended up going off to school I didn't like it that much and then I took a two-year gap year and I'm here so yeah beautiful and I have to ask and see you mentioned Shaniqua Jarvis I'm gonna ask the three of you is there anyone who as you were kind of growing up or at any particular point in your life who really kind of changed things for you in terms of what representation could look like and kind of inspired you and said oh okay you know and I'm curious if there's anyone or anyone's these are more people who may have just really kind of turned things around for you I think Carrie Mayweems off the bat that was the first black woman photographer or just yeah black woman a photographer that I was really into and loving her work so what was it about Carrie Mayweems work um I think how intimate it was how honest it was and how I guess she was honest about her experiences in domestic environments as well within her particularly that kitchen table series and so looking into that and then there were a couple other projects that I really liked a great deal by her that I just in blanking on at the moment but yeah I was really into her work when I was younger and you run was there anyone for you for me it was fk to be honest I remember coming across it for the first time when I was I think 13 years old she just released LP one her first album and I before I ever saw her music I was struck by her visual and the amount of agency she had over her look and how she wanted to portray herself as a black woman like she is so very much black and so not just proud but she takes it into her own hands her own narrative of what it means to her to be a black woman how her blackness is soft it's hard it's beautiful it's it has so many feelings that we evoke not through her does her aesthetic but music to see how the world's tied into other as well I was so inspiring to me as a young black girl a young black aspiring creative and she had become my beauty icon and a true role model for me were there any ways around that you find yourself kind of referencing that or even building off of that was there any certain look you've done or something where you were really going for it I literally got my nose piercing because of her I got my nose ring because of her I was so inspired by her look and how she felt so unabashedly proud of herself and proud to be herself and what that looks like for her I said you know you maybe want to be myself too it's beautiful Caroline who was it for you or what you or was it the series of things or was it an image that you saw in the past yeah I think you know for me I would say that as I mentioned in my opening it was the culture I grew up in right because so much of that just manifested in the way that we sat down and had a meal and visited with each other right just growing up in Kenya both in the city and in both of my parents' villages like it just was in front of you right so you saw all of these things and that's how you learned about it and so that definitely was inspirational it doesn't mean I was fully ready to own it but it was it was what I aimed for I think if I were to say when I came over to the US and having existed in Western culture what I would say in hindsight it's people like Grace Jones and the reason why I bring her up is because I think before I even knew why she was just intriguing to me there's an audacity to the way that she chose to exist that disregarded environment disregarded dress code disregarded anything and it wasn't to be disrespectful but I even think about something that I remember Willie Smith saying in one of the essence articles we did with him was this idea of like never being concerned about the onlookers who thought you were overdressed because even though you may not have adhered to whatever the dress code may be for your job or for your style or for what you do you will always be the best dressed in the room if you're authentic to yourself and I think that Grace Jones was one of those icons who just was like I'm coming and I'm here and how I showed up is how you get to consume me make a choice and I think that now as I look at where I am in life I definitely operate in that same mentality that she inspired even if I didn't know at the time that was which is I am going to decide how I want to show up and I will never show up in a way that is disrespectful of the venue or the event but I will also not feel restricted by what others are saying is appropriate there and I will wear what will do and I actually have a line that I use a lot about my style and I say I wear what I am I'm sorry I wear where I am and what I mean by that is I w e a r I wear w h e r e I am I wear where I am and that could be mentally that could be physically that could be emotionally that could be intellectually that could be a lot of different things but I check in with myself on how I want to show up in my aesthetic and that in and of itself is an activism around authenticity. Amen to that and I like how we're going you know where we're going with this idea of authenticity and audacity Caroline can you please give us some examples of how you have done this what are some looks what are some ways that you have shown up and felt completely seated in yourself but also still respectful of the environment what are some some looks. I think it's an interesting you know I'll try to talk about the looks but what I'll talk about is just kind of a series of moments and so I I did a 15 year career in corporate America and I would tell you that for the first 10 of those years I was rocking cardigans and New York and company and crap I didn't like because I thought that's what business we were supposed to wear and I hated my closet that I would wear to work. I hate cardigans no hate on people who love cardigans I don't like cardigans but I had like 50 of them because I thought that's what I was supposed to wear to work but I had this whole other closet that was actually me that I didn't feel like I could wear when I was at work but I'm spending more time at work than not at work and so I remember when I went into the job doing diversity and inclusion and I actually had this moment of dissonance where I was now in a role where I was supposed to be helping people be their authentic selves at work and I had done 50 different air styles in my life but never locks because I somewhere somebody had told me that locks are not appropriate in corporate America I'll remember who told me or when but I held it like it was truth right and so one of the things that I did when I got that job and was in a place of dissonance was I went home I had micro braids in my hair if you don't know what those are audience google it but I had micro braids in my hair and I cut them out at the knot these were fresh at the knot and went to the shop and said start my locks because I could not sit in the dissonance of saying that my job is to help people be authentic at work and I'm sitting here fair to change my hairstyle after I've had a successful 10-year career in corporation if target fires me because I started my locks then we were not at close anyway and so I came to work the next day deathly afraid deathly afraid of termination that's not an exaggeration because it was here in the here for the black woman in a lot of places corporate included was considered a career limiting decision depending on how you wore it it depending on what your career would be that's a provocation that's a provocation wearing your hair natural in that space absolutely like that is an act of activism there are dress codes out there the crown act had to be created because natural hairstyles for black women were considered to be things that made them unprofessional unsuccessful limited their growth and so I literally lived in fear for the whole week I thought everybody was talking about me every time my boss called me they were coming to fire me until nobody cared and the minute that I was in week three and nobody cared I was like okay I'm gonna hit him with the blue lipstick and then nobody cared again and then I was like are we doing this okay burning cardigans rocking things that are these funky aesthetics like what I have on starting the unicorn horn doing my glasses thing coming in whatever I want to wear when I'm called to speak on a stage putting on fabric that represents my continent and modern aesthetics starting to deliver on the things that make me feel dope when I'm engaging with people and that became then an act of activism in the corporate sector that I was just doing to feel comfortable so that I was freeing up the capacity in my brain and in my spirit to actually be excellent at what I was there to do and because I had been consuming that time with cardigans and stuff and walking around and stuff that I wasn't comfortable with I was limiting my capacity to be good in the minute that I liberated myself by wearing what I wanted to wear and being comfortable that if it changed a relationship with anybody that I was okay with that relationship going away the pursuit of my purpose was accelerated and that is what I would say is more important than a look it is the decision that came with operating in my authenticity accepting that the consequences may mean that some people don't want to be around me anymore but also feeling liberated in the capacity that was freed up to actually do what I was born to do because I wasn't worried about wearing something that made me uncomfortable Caroline I have to ask would you say well there's two things would you say though the the status that you had in those work environments enabled you to do that more so than say a black woman at a different level in that workspace so I will say yes and no and let me tell you why the yes part of that answer is yes I had gotten to an officer level in the in the C suite right and so yeah I made it there but actually if you think about psychologically what is different most people become more restricted as they go up because it becomes more risky to lose what you've gained self-preservation increases because now you're at the top you've got this big job you've got this big represent whoever you are right you've made it to the pinnacle and so the risk that comes with after the fight now given them a little bit of your authenticity actually becomes a threat to your life your career your success so yes there is something related to the privilege of functioning at the officer level but that privilege did not mean that I was not subjected to decisions changing and all of a sudden I no longer have potential because I'm wearing my hair natural what changed it for me was I had sponsors and people who helped to surround the attacks that came to my authenticity that were invalid that's actually what was more the difference for me because at my level in my job I had to live what I own that doesn't mean Target was interested in me doing that and so it had to be groups of other people across the company that had to play a role and go leave Caroline alone yes she wears whatever the hell she wants but it's not her new pay attention to her substance and by the way I kicked ass in my job and so where do you have a complaint and so it wasn't necessarily protective but what it was that I didn't do it for was inspirational to several other women and black people who weren't wearing their hair natural had been covering up and what we started to see not just because of me but as a part of that was women starting to come out and who they always wanted to be because now somebody had gone first or second or third and it inspired them to do the same thank you and so it took that that courageousness and just moving forward and offering that sense of protection for others and I want to ask you know you also get me thinking about something else it's very important for our viewers oftentimes and I also think about this when I work with students they see people at the top or this really great powerful proud place and they don't see the process you know they don't get to see everything that led you know the cardigan sweaters you know you get into that point you know they see star photographers star designers but they didn't see that struggle or or with artists up to that point and so Aaron and Kennedy I want to ask you um a little bit about the process or that journey and getting there because some people see you now and just you know or maybe you were always maybe you stepped into this from the beginning but what was that process like um and even kind of building off of what Caroline said did did it also depend on a little bit of protection or advocacy or a supportive family or an adopted family you know or a group of friends to really support you in that so you could really step into that self was it always what we're seeing here now in terms of your you know how you present yourself and how you feel today I am very connected to where I started from and the work that it took to get to the point that people consider me to be at right now and where I consider myself to be at right now um it did not happen overnight um I work as a model for um anyone that might not be familiar I work as a model I am now represented by community New York but um for a long time I was known being that um when I was 17 I was signed to elite model management as their first um as the first black trans disabled model ever signed to a major high fashion agency but represented or represented by a major modeling agency um I to say the least I worked a lot and very hard to get to that point and beyond especially being that um I am black trans and disabled where um to many people these these identities could not exist as something that is desirable beautiful um something to view as beautiful or sellable um and I started my modeling career myself I was not I was not at first scouted by an Asian or photographer I did it myself on twitter where I made a tweet when I was 16 about wanting to aspire to be a model and aspire to sign to an agency being that I had never seen anything like it before and for someone who prior to this tweet or anything who loves fashion so much I genuinely was a little disappointed that you don't see people with disabilities disabled people on the cover of rogue in editorials you don't see people in wheelchairs people with mobility aids represented in fashion you don't see black trans people represented in fashion black trans women represented in fashion behind or in front of the camera on set as makeup artists as hair artists you don't see that you don't you barely see black people in fashion as it is and I just have to sit and wonder why because you look outside on the street right and you see all types of different people you don't just see someone who is cisgender white able bodied and heterosexual and six feet tall you see all types of different people so how could this not exist in fashion when fashion is so crucial to the way people identify and see themselves and see themselves as beautiful or as trendy that's how you identify what's going on in style in modern style how could you miss that mark so I really felt compelled when I was 17 to take it there on twitter and kind of start that conversation and it worked where when I was 17 through that tweet I started out getting many odd jobs where I at first was doing retail um I made my intentions very known that I always want to be elevated to the place in high fashion where I want to be because I know high fashion is where it lacks the most visibility or the most representation the most tangible representation for my groups of people that I belong to I knew that for a fact and I started out in retail where I started doing jobs with clients such as h&m refinery 29 American Eagle and I was very very happy and honored to be in that space I was honored that anybody was listening to me at all and I was at that time I was not assigned to anyone I was doing this all myself I was a junior in high school I used to be in class um I had my computer on one side of the computer would be emails from the top of the screen to down on the screen that I had to answer I was filing w2s and then on the other side of the screen was school work and my teacher would get mad at me because I was trying to do two things at the same time in class like I was really that dedicated where I was working as I was in class I was trying to make everything work because I felt so compelled to become a model because I love fashion and I hadn't seen myself properly in it yet and by properly I mean I guess my end goal is that disabled models are walking like Versace Prada um Mew Mew black trans models are walking Versace Prada Mew Mew like I want to see everyone doing everything in a tangible way not just for singular soul moments I want it to happen in a way that is genuinely tangible and I knew I had work to be done back then so here I was 17 working working working working working and it honestly continued where press started to continue to come in because I had press writing about me at that point because I was getting a lot of attention from people and I was working a lot and very hard up until the summer but before the summer I I before the summer I was just I was just very in a space where I was like is this going to work out is this really going to work out and I wasn't sure but I kept going anyways because I knew that my time and space as a disabled person as a black trans girl um needed to be respected and seen because that's the old thing where it's going to work and the summer of 2018 um I was I was here in my room and I checked my email and elite model management expressed interest in signing me they were ready to sign me and I cried and I cried and I cried and I cried because I felt like I really did what I said I was going to do and people really listened to me and that was the start um the start is not all the finish when I was signed it was such an exciting time my life at elite I was very honored and grateful to take up that space and to be amongst such incredible women incredible figures in the industry but I'm not even going to hide this at like for a long time clients were very reluctant to work with me because of the fact that I am black trans and physically disabled they did not know how to accommodate they did not know how to go about that because it has not been seen in fashion and then accessibility is a whole other conversation where like fashion had not ever really considered or thought about accessibility as something to consider for a very very long time so my goal is to do runway and campaigns and magazine covers and a lot of the time these events these faces would not be accessible to my wheelchair at all these faces would have stairs or something that I can't get my wheelchair in so I can't be a part of it or you know the client simply does not want to take the time to accommodate and that was very difficult to navigate engage and try to wrap my head around being that I never saw myself as different from other models I just need the accommodation to make things work and for a long time I was in that space to kind of make things work then I started getting clients when I was 18 to when I was 17 to 18 I did magazine giving me my first job which was which was an editorial for them which was really really really exciting and I was so super honored to have that and then when I turned 18 that's when I really started working for the first time and it was very interesting to see how things started to work because I remember my first major job was for Sephora I had a Sephora campaign for Pride and that was so wonderful because I remember I used to be so concerned about accessibility and then I was in LA with Sephora and Luke Guilford the photographer took the time to take me on my wheelchair into the grass to take a shot and I felt like oh my god I feel so listened to and loved right now because people are trying to understand me and my body and how I can exist in fashion in a way that they don't think about in a way that's major that's elevated you know seeing people kind of start to think about accessibility and transness upon the presence of myself and other models like myself in this industry has been really amazing and you know from then on things started to slowly progress and grow and I just continue to especially use social media as a way of voicing my thoughts and opinions which people consider to be activism but I know in my heart that I'm just a Black girl and as a Black girl I have to speak on everything to make it happen and that's just how I think of it I don't consider myself an activist I think of myself as a model and I just I continued with everything that was going on and then last year have especially seen a lot of progress for me in my career being that last year was the height of the pandemic as well so it was really interesting where we were in the height of the pandemic and I was so scared everyone was so scared but I noticed that I had a lot of work going on from home where clients were starting to reach out and wanting to ask me more about what it is to be Black trans disabled in the industry but in a way that's not tokenizing in a way that's like let's book you let's really see you for who you are as a model let's uplift your talent let's show that you can sell clothes um and it's been really interesting where I started from where I'm at and um I now have nine covers to my name nine magazine covers and I have campaigns such as Moschino with Jeremy Scott um for the fall winter 21 season which I am so deeply honored and grateful to have even happened in any capacity Jeremy Scott is someone who is very close and near and dear to my heart because like he's really seen me for who I am as a model and talent and what I want to contribute and why I want to contribute that way and it really has been like an uphill back and forth I'm not going to call the battle because I love fashion and I love my industry and I think the battle is considering a fight and really I just want to be understood and taken seriously and I don't consider that a battle I consider that a back and forth and um I've also shot for Tyler Mitchell for Vogue Italia where you know these jobs that I used to think about before modeling because I used to dream these things are not dreams anymore and um I feel extremely connected to the fact that I started from where I came from because I made a tweet you know and people really genuinely listen to me and I'm so grateful for everyone that I've ever had the chance to work with and the people that I continue to work with and I'm just excited to see where it goes next thank you for that start that that is a beautiful journey and so I am glad that you were just getting booked and just in high demand and and I and I hope that that sustains before we go to Q&A there's so many more questions I had for you all I want Kennedy to just share also um just anything you know just in hearing what uh Aaron and Caroline had to say about their journey um does that call to mind anything for you Kennedy? I um I feel like I didn't really start doing anything that was I guess for commission well when I did start it was more so when I was in college and they were very small shoots like $25 shoots and it was getting strange for a little change I'm gonna be honest but it was getting real strange sometimes but I mean it kind of I feel as though everything that I shot even the small stuff even the graduation stuff I always figure out ways to use it as a point of reference for something that I've done in the future I think everything that I do will always be something that is a point of reference in the future so I'm that's pretty much just how I'm taking it now I think even I don't know just even making work in the south and being an artist that's based down here I have not seen many photographers especially fashion photographers making work out here and it didn't start until like recently and I mean I think a lot of people felt as though they had to go to these places where it was for example like New York or LA where there is a fashion industry or consistent productions that are happening so the fact that I was able to make the work that I am now and um honestly just keep I don't know just making the work that I am now is really great to me I think sometimes even thinking back on to last year and what Erin said about how her biggest year was pretty much during like a pandemic I think the same happened for me and I think on that British Vogue shoot quite often about where I would be had that not happen because it ended up being what catapulted me into the spot that I am now so it's like okay this is amazing but if I didn't get this job with the person that I ended up shooting which is Beyonce where or what work would I be making now and I mean on the on the low it's kind of scary but it's also amazing that those doors are opening um the way they are and people can make the work that they want to from anywhere so. Thank you before we go to Q&A though there's one more thing I have one more question I want to ask Caroline um because I just can't end our conversation without touching on this but the role you have stepped into now Caroline in essence as we've been talking about now that the power of image making and advocacy when it comes to representation what are your motivations and intentions and hopes now as this leader in essence? I mean this is this is my favorite question um as as it is um something that I feel fully honored to have had the opportunity to do right when the opportunity came forward it was one of those where you just go you talking to me like this like me what right like it's one of those where you just you have that these aren't the kinds of jobs where you go maybe next year right these are these are once in a lifetime type opportunities and so in the in the opportunity that I have to serve my focus will be in a couple of places as it relates to who essence is and who it serves it's the place 31 million black women call home what we will ensure is a part of continuing it being around for another 50 years as it has been for 50 years is focused in a couple of areas the first of those is we will continue to reposition the black woman as the CEO of communities the CFO of communities the chief wellness officer communities the chief stylist the chief design because what has happened to the narrative about black women with the exception of the last year or so is that we became unintentionally thought about as a deficit or a charity or a group to help or a group to support versus what we actually are which is the catalysts of culture what we do others do where we go others go as we go so does the world whether that's about politics whether that's about fashion whether that's about voice whether that's about influence whether that's about innovation with right we are at the lifeblood of that because we are influential within our homes but also with the people that live in our homes and then those people interact with communities that influence and then those communities interact with other communities and if 2020 hasn't told the world the impact of black people then they just don't want to hear it and black women in particular and so also standing guide and guardian against the narrative that chooses to try to position the black woman as a charity case or a deficit will be something you will see essence continue to speak loudly against and then we will reposition ourselves around culture equity and celebration and that's not about things that are not already true but this is about spotlight and strengthening how the black woman is already living and doing culture this is about ensuring she has the acumen and resources to meet her goals because it doesn't that she doesn't have any it's just that because of the power that she owns systems of limited access so we're going to dismantle those right and then celebrating our achievements big and small in gatherings and stories but also on platforms and together and I think aron gave a great example of like what the pandemic has given as an opportunity to celebrate more of how you can live and so we really are focused on that and so the brand has been around for 50 years and we fully intend for it to be around for 50 more but what we will do is redefine what partnering with that community of 31 black 31 million black women means and if you are not going to be in an intimate authentic focused on her relationship then you don't want her and we're not going to give you access to her so that's really what we're going to be driving and we're going to continue to do it in a multi-generational inclusive way we're going to continue to look to connect the total global black diaspora which is where the power will get unleashed and we'll do all of that in the spirit of joy celebration culture and slate that is who we are Caroline Wang everyone chief executive officer of essence so we are going to pivot we just have a few minutes left and so we're going to just jump into these questions here okay I want to um so this one we have here you are navigating so one question is you are navigating so much as a diverse professional and leader in workplaces how does Caroline balance finding her voice and feeling confident as her authentic self like here's the really quick answer to that question it's non-negotiable so the transition to living out my authenticity in every way shape or form is the foundation that's where the question starts so my professional career is not the first thing Caroline is and Caroline and what it means for Caroline to be healthy Caroline and what it means for Caroline to be at her best Caroline to feel safe and nurtured and energized is where everything starts and then once that is at its place of health we negotiate the pieces of other things that come in so if it's a tough day I might end the day at three o'clock right because if I go till five I might not be okay and so it's actually the other way around and I'll give you an Audrey Lord quote that really encompasses how I think about self-care and by the way I have an actual self-compassion plan that lays out the things that are have to be true for me to stay at health that I share with my peers and my team because I'm bad at it and they help me adhere to it so if anybody wants to see that let me know and I will send you my self-compassion plan but here's the quote caring for myself is not an act of self-indulgence it is an act of self-preservation and that is political warfare. Audrey Lord. And we have another question for you Caroline. Caroline you touched on appropriation historically appropriation has always been problematic how do you see addressing this in a way that it becomes a teaching moment? Here's the thing I think calling out where things are not happening the way they're supposed to be is of utmost importance I think that what what becomes critical is what is your intent when you call it out and are you willing to help fix it or you just want to blast people and it just depends on what you're there because you can choose to sit in a position of when appropriation takes place you observe it see it experience it you call people out you can choose to do and you can choose to end it there but my position is if all you're doing is calling it out then you're not helping it not happen again you're just shaming somebody into what they did my preference is yes address it but address it in a way that teaches the person or the entity as well as those that may be influenced by them why this doesn't happen what better would have looked like and how to change it for the future because then we start to redesign the system versus just shame the people that design the system so for me appropriation and anything else like that is a place where we have a conversation about what happened how did we get here we address the things that are non-negotiable we help design the things that need to be different and we actually put that back in the limelight in the right way so that people learn and we start to address the systemic trauma and start to create success where it should be beautiful we have one last time for one last question um which is a few minutes left and this is for everyone um someone asks can we touch on the ways the conversation of colorism can be introduced and focused on an amplification of black features and the tendency for it to be viewed as divisive so so however any of you read that question um so futurism colorism any thoughts about that i would love to hear like what kennedy has to say living in the south on this one okay that was a layered question so go through read it one more time i'm trying to like because i also and so however i guess since we have a few minutes left however you kind of took it can we touch on the ways the conversation of colorism can be introduced and focused on an amplification of black features and the tendency for it to be viewed as divisive or just yeah how can we also address colorism there's also big conversations of featureism too with certain privileges um like how did it make sure black features are represented when you're doing your photography i mean casting i think if anything it's heavy within casting and when i'm put in a situation where i am able to see the models that are coming in first and view the deck beforehand being honest about what needs to be included whether that's varying in skin tones body types um and accessibility as well um what can we do in order to like erin said make this body of work or whatever we're producing and putting out into the world resonate with people so they feel like it looks like them and i think that's really all that it's about i think there are methods and ways of having conversations but at at the end of the day it's really about when you're in these spaces what are you doing in order to i guess use the weight of your privilege and the weight of what you have in this space in order to make things happen and not just talk about it and it takes that diverse representation though behind the camera we need photographers who look like you to advocate for that um because this issue is rampant in the fashion industry and if we do not have enough diverse photographers especially black photographers advocating for this we're just going to see the same images over and over so your work is so important um so i'm being told we only have two minutes left so um i guess we'll close out here i just want to thank each each of you for your brilliance and your presence just being here um to our audience thank you i hope you got something out of this um Kimberly can i say one thing can i say one thing i just have to be honest to it shout out to Sukena this is a black on yes black designer Sukena he's fantastic out of new york sorry i just hadn't shout out support black businesses the name one more time Sukena s u k e i n a he's a fantastic kind of avant garde senegalese artist uh and designer and i absolutely adore him just hadn't shout out the black designer thank you and one more time you were saying your compassion what was it called in case anyone's interested my self-compassion plan so email me at um caroline at wonglewoman.com or cwonga at essence.com and we will send you uh my self-compassion plan which is the way in which i put things in place to help keep balance and help beautiful and we can follow you at if anyone just looks up your name where can where's the best place to follow each of you caroline wonga woman just wonga woman whatever social it is it's wonga woman wonga woman aron where can where can folks find you my instagram is aron filib a a r o n triple underscore three underscores p h i l i p beautiful kenby are you on social where can we or where can we find you where's the best place where you're preferred way to find your way my preferred way is my instagram my instagram name is internet bby perfect thank you all um this is a beautiful conversation we could have just gone on and on um and thank you all for listening