 on as we go and see if the, so this is the build OGM call for Tuesday, January 25th, 2022. We have live transcript on Pete. Thanks for remembering. I've still not like habituated to remember. I also thought I changed my zoom settings. This is weird. I thought I changed my zoom settings to get rid of the waiting room because I don't like the first thing I do when I open all of our zooms is I open chat, I open participants, I go to the menu, I pick turn off the waiting room. I pick turn off mute all entrance when they come in. I do that manually because I thought I'd change the settings at the zoom website and no effect. So I'm missing somehow the right setting to do that or it's impossible to do. They don't want you to not have a waiting room. But I thought I'd turn, I thought yesterday I'd finally discovered actually turning off the waiting room and fairly not. So I turned on HD and it doesn't have any perceivable difference. If you've got a password on the, if you've got a password on the zoom, it should, when you do, you should be able to turn off the waiting room. And the links I'm using are passworded. It's just the password is built into the links. So I don't, maybe I'll find a trouble ticket there as well and solve that. Anyway, that's not a big deal. It's just that every time I open a zoom, I'm doing those little steps and like, wouldn't it be nice to have good settings? Hey, Michael, are you noticing any difference in the video quality on the zoom? Just regular video quality. Do we all look the same? We apparently all look the same. I think the same. So I turned, I turned on HD. I went to the zoom settings and I turned on HD because apparently normal zoom is in the SD and then there's two grades of HD. There's 720 and 1080. And I turned on the 720. The 1080 is only available for two people on the zoom at a time. And as a special setting, I think you have to have it approved or something. But I imagine it's only as good as the camera of the person who's on the other end. So I mean, I can tell the difference in camera quality between various of us. Look at you, Stacey. But I mean, yeah, maybe, maybe, yeah, Pete, you and Pete look a little clearer to me. Pete and I have relatively new Macs. So I think that's the whole answer there is that there's really nice cameras in the Mac bezels. Actually, no, Pete is using an old Google Pixel 2, A2, which has a very, which has a better camera, should have a better camera than the web bezel cameras built in. You have the best lighting. Like you, you're, I'm in front of some actual large rectangular lights. So yeah, I better. But now you froze. Yeah, you were punished. You were punished for showing off your setup. You froze. Oh, really? Yeah, you did. Oh, man. Jesus. Someone on your crew, on your production crew back there was like, we'll show him. I'm gonna, yeah, well, pull that plug right now. We've ordered another another Google Wi-Fi repeater to put downstairs. So hopefully that'll give us better, more reliable connection. Go ahead, Stacey. I was gonna say I had the build OGM topic. Perfect, please. I was just reading for the threads I had been there in a while, and there's a lot of talk of that, the email or the annual newsletter or whatever. And I know we're also having a call tomorrow. So will those two be related? And does anybody want to, does Pete want to say something or? Which call tomorrow? The one with Sam about the Civil War, whatever, the one that he thought he couldn't make, that he thought was today. Tomorrow? Tomorrow. Oh, I should rebroadcast it. Yeah. I'm not sure I know about that one, although let me tell him it is. Oh, okay. Well, then more about the email part, because I know you're. So Rob, was it Rob in the Metamos who was saying we should have a newsletter? Yeah. And Pete, you've mentioned this before as well. Do you want to? I have a, yeah, I'm going to do one. It's going to be Supra OGM. Is it going to be, which entity? Are you using a CSC newsletter? Is it a? I think it might be. That's kind of what I'm thinking. Yeah. Okay. And I had, I had early interest in us having sort of a dashboard where you could in fact go see what was up and where anybody who had our conversation or a project would be, would be posting the latest thing to that page. So there was no need actually for an ongoing newsletter. And I'm torn about newsletters because on the one hand, I think people just dispose of newsletters when there's like five things and when there's more than like one or two items in an email, some people just dispose of them. And yet I subscribe to probably eight different sub stack pubs, which are long reads mostly. And I read them like I read a bunch of them. So I'm sort of torn there. But I just, I just think that that trying to create a state where you were, it's like the real time closing of who was at Cisco had real time close of their books. There was one company back in the dot com era that was famous where they basically their books were so up to date that you could pick a moment and kind of know what their, how their, how their books were, at least to the level of that instance collections and tax payments and whatever else. Stacy, go ahead, you've raised your hand. Okay. Well, I didn't mean to cut you off though. That was pretty much done. Okay. So the reason I'm really asking is I wanted to know after the email gets, I mean, after this newsletter that Pete does, is it like open like a few people wanted to create a call around the newsletter, which would be more like a show around newsletter? Would that be okay? Is that I mean? So, to back up a tick, I wanted to make an observation about it. So I like Jerry, you and I, and all of us we've talked about the dashboard thing would be super cool to see a real time that the observation we haven't done it for one thing. I might, I think in an ideal world that would, that would be what would, that's what you would have happen. Everybody would just keep a dashboard up to date. And my guess is it's kind of like PBS funding or something like that. It's, you basically kind of need to get prodded to update the dashboard. So I think having somebody, me for instance, like every every two weeks go, hey, you know, remember to update, essentially remember to update the dashboard more or less. But then if you put that also into a little bit more of a news format rather than a dashboard format, I think it's going to also be attractive and more readable and stuff like that. So for what it's worth, Vincent and I were talking yesterday and he was showing me, he's got, you know, he can push a button on his control panel and get an abstract of, you know, the new events and the new additions to links and all that kind of stuff. So he can produce a fairly automated update of what, you know, what happened the last two weeks. So we're talking already about combining those. So Stacy that having that it's a really interesting, interesting question. If you could have a call around the newsletter and what's new and things like that. I were, were almost kind of, it's almost like a podcast episode or something like that. I don't know if you're going that way. I think that's reasonable. I think I would wait. I don't, I don't think they're incompatible. I think what I would do is wait to see what happens, you know, with the newsletter after a couple months and a couple additions of it and see if, if it actually, you know, gels and call us into something where you go, oh, it'd be fun if, you know, this way to call about all the stuff that happened over the past two weeks rather than just an update. So this is me expressing my interest if it ever gets to that part. I'd like to be part of that. So two different things. How, how difficult would it be to create some markdown pages that pointed to other markdown pages and then just, you know, like, like line them up in whatever order. So there could be one markdown pages is here are the here are the check-in projects or conversations. And then each of those would have their own markdown page on a wiki. And that would be the page that any of them could maintain or take care of. And for example, when I finished uploading and processing a call, I would post it. I would, I would add it to that list as well in my workflow so that the latest, the latest call and the transcript and whatever were available easily there. But we could also do a quick text summary or something like that of what the call was like. And of any open issues or things we're trying to solve. And then we just roll them up and we press a button. And that turns into both the dashboard and the newsletter. Because the moment you say press it with the moment you go to the page, you can follow any of the links to any of the pages. And if somebody just updated it, it's there. And the moment you press a button and say just absorb those pages and put it out as a single site as a as a as a single page site. But that turns into a newsletter that's kind of done. Is that really challenging? Or is that kind of simple? Technologically, it's, it's pretty straightforward. I think kind of the same way we, we, I think we've demonstrated more or less that we, well, I guess where my head at is that is everybody wants to have crapped calls and nobody really wants to do it. Well, this is far short of the crabbing. This is like stuff we're already doing. Plus, plus a paragraph of prose that says, and here's where we are, here's what we're waiting for, here's our next step or something like that. Yeah, I think that paragraph of prose is harder than you think. I also, you're an amazing, you, you're amazing with the way that you maintain the information flow, the kind of the road stuff that you have to do every week to make sure that all the calls get in the right place. And, you know, there's transcript files and all that kind of stuff. It's, it's a pain in the mirror. And I think most people aren't that disciplined, kind of. So, um, I don't know, long, long story short, I would love to have, you know, have it essentially be automated. I think there's, I think there's value in editorial curation of, of the newsletter. So I think that's going to be a significant value add to it. I'd be happy to, to, you know, not do that. But I think that's part of it, actually. This is what that archive looks like. It's amazing. So here's the build.gm calls. I just now created this one. I haven't linked it to anything yet, but you know, here's our last, oops, let's go down. Here's last week's call where we talked about the semiosphere. And I presented the poll that I was sending out. And Mark talked about his taking the course at Lyceum Institute, which is of course connected to Thomism and the classical Lyceum and the Trivium, which they teach. Oh, I didn't connect it to the Trivium. So I should do that. Anyway, we should, it's funny how I, it's funny how I grew up with IFTTT is the automation thing. Yeah. So now I think all automations, IFTTT, but it's not, at least my, my, my mouth does or something. Right. Yeah, we should set up a Zaker. So at least, especially now that we've moved the thirsty calls off, I think we have collective next, we have, yeah, all the calls are in my Zoom now. Yeah. So we should, you and I should sit down and, and set up the Zaps so that calls get detected and, and started over at YouTube. It doesn't completely automate the whole thing, but it would automate a lot of it. That sounds great. And I kind of look at that and scratch my head and I'm not quite sure where to go, what to start, because I'm not, you know, and Zapier keeps sending me little reminders to go use it because I've been in account. So I'd love to do that. What do you think, Stacy? Do we kind of cover your question? Yes. Yes. I think, you know, another thing that might happen is we might not have separate calls. We might, they might, like you could, you could kind of go over either right before it gets sent or right after it's sent or something like that, you could go over, you know, kind of the state of the state of the plex on the Tuesday call or the Thursday call. Yeah. Well, you know, I'm just thinking, you know, part of the reason people come to the calls is they like, you know, they like coming to the calls, they like the conversation. And I just think that's like a natural fit and something that you want to keep there. But it also could be used to like branch out and, you know, maybe there are other people that will be able to see it and say, oh, we're doing something just like this and then new connections will be made. Yep. And Stacy, you were saying, would it be okay to do a show over that? Were you thinking sort of like Michael Che and Colin Jost weekend edition version of what's happening in OGM and CSC land or? No, I wasn't, but I kind of like that. I mean, partially, but not necessarily, you know, maybe, well, for example, you know, for example, I mean, if the first, you know, there were a couple of things that were interesting, I would reach out to the person, you know, could we talk about this, you know, so it might be like little segments or, but I like your weekend update. Yeah. With a guest. Again, how they had the guest at the end. Yeah, yeah, exactly. That would be really interesting to source, huh? And you saw that Pete Davidson and Colin Jost and a third guy bought a Staten Island ferry. No, you missed that? I haven't been watching it. They're going to turn it into an entertainment venue and dock at some place. Oh, in real life, you're talking about. Yeah, in real life. Oh, what a great idea. I love that. And then that became a sketch in this past Saturday's weekend update. They laughed at themselves about it. It was really not bad. That's what happens when you don't watch the news. You don't get the humor. There you go. And it reminded me of the seasteading fiasco where the seasteading folks got some money and bought a ship and then basically had to spend a whole bunch of money because they didn't understand what owning a ship means. I read that. And then they had to sell the ship while it was in transit because nobody would let it dock. It was like this horrible nightmare, this nightmare project. So I'm like, may this not go that way. Okay, so Pete, you're already planning on doing a CSE newsletter and maybe pointing to or incorporating Vincent's automated recent changes report. Could OGM submit something to your newsletter? Of course. Good chunk of it's going to be OGM. Huh. Because that solves the, hey, where's the news problem? And it solves it at a nicer level, which is the ecosystem of communities level, which you are a host for. Um, I like that then it just creates a, you know, will we update a page or, or, you know, what kind of, what is the current state of each of these things I can easily provide. Here's the recordings and here's what's going on. And if we can automate that one step further than then that's terrific because it creates a resource that's more easily accessible somehow. Right. Um, I'm behind schedule a day or so. I had a wish that I'd gotten announcements and stuff up yesterday, but I haven't. So hopefully today. However, I, so the way this is going to work, I think bi-weekly published first Wednesday and third Wednesday. I don't know if this is, I don't know if I was going to make this be a secret or not, but anyway, I used to publish the Dorm newsletter. Oh, which was the bi-weekly frank dispatch. So back in the day I used, and it was more or less types out and stuff like that. So I'm thinking that like for me doing it, it recalls some of the stuff that I did then, you know, we had, I had probably had a column and, you know, anyway. So about yesterday or about today, something like that, the next next edition comes out next week, right? Well, on Wednesday or the first edition. Like a week before I'll do like, hey, I'm going to publish the next version next week. Tell me what's new, what's going on. Here's a Google Doc to start setting stuff up, you know. We could on this call, the five of us kind of, I, you know, I could start to do Google Doc blank instead of having some stuff about what it was supposed to be. But then we could fill in the OGM parts collectively, if that would be an interesting exercise. The other choice is, I guess we do that in a rush on Tuesday, right, before the day before next week. Or we can do it asynchronously. So is that worth a shot? Could this be fed through a channel on Mattermost? Which, yeah, it could. That's actually a really good idea. I didn't even thought of that. My first, I wish it would be HackMD. And then I was like, well, it could be HackMD into Google Docs. And I was like, well, it should just be Google Docs. I'm out of this channel. It's great too. Because I catch up with Mattermost, if I can, or at least every other day, and try to respond to things like that that would come up. And if you were to poke and say, hey, you know, data updates needed, I'd be like, oh, okay. I try, when I post, you're right about that summaries are harder than they look. When I post the videos to YouTube, I try sometimes to put a little summary in the description, just really light so that it reminds us more than anything of what was the bulk of the conversation. It's really not a call summary. Oh, Frank. Oh, interesting. And this is at Caltech. And when I say dorm, it's actually the Caltech storms are kind of a cross between a house and a dorm. And Frank was an animal or an occupant? It was a person, as far as I remember. I love that. Buford, Frank. Buford, Frank. Yeah, I like a pretended person. Oh, so this is not a real person pretend person. It's better. Good. Well, Buford now is now immortalized in my brain for whatever it's worth. Awesome. May I ask a sort of question, which I think in some way relates to this. In fact, I asked you, Jerry, in a call back in December, which to me is like a century ago, but I guess it's only last year. Well, I'm back in the Netherlands now, but I'm going back to Ireland next week to be wearing these great cliffs behind me. And I'm intending to write a kind of book or booklet about a lot of things I've been thinking about. And among them are things like how could a distributed collective knowledge platform or network like OGM be a global lab or the generative commons. And I'll be taking some ideas from a number of the conversations which we had. But when I was telling you that, you said, well, why don't you put a notice on Mattermost and anybody who's interested in contributing or thinking together could do that. And I looked at Mattermost back then, but I was in such a rush to get everything set up for going to Ireland in mid December. I never really did that. So I'm wondering, suppose I wanted to contact the people who are in these regular calls or even other OGM people who are on the list serves and say, I'm doing this and does anyone want to think together? What's a good way to do that? Pete, your advice? Who do you want to reach? People in specifically in OGM or? Yeah, specifically in OGM. As opposed to if you look at Mattermost, there's OGM folks and then there's kind of a superset of OGM, but specifically the OGM folks, right? Well, there's about 30 or 40 OGM people that I've met in these calls or whose posts on the email list I read regularly and they're really interesting people. So yeah, so that's what I'm thinking of. Then that's probably the mailing list. Okay, yeah. You can also go on Mattermost and the way Mattermost is set up, there's a number of OGM channels and the biggest one is theoretically OGM calls. That's probably true. The biggest OGM one. The Town Square channel is everybody's hard subscribed to that basically. So that's where everybody is and that should be used for announcements. So it would be fine to say, well, I don't know. Actually, I don't know if it would be fine. So in OGM calls, you can do that channel. That channel means everybody in the channel and everybody's going to get a notification. If you just post something in OGM calls, I think most people wouldn't see it. But if you do that channel, you know, OGM calls, everybody would see it and there's probably 30 or 40 people in that channel. You could do an act channel in Town Square, but you would annoy at least me because not everybody's going to be interested. Right. Pete, it would be possible for Hank to create a new channel for his book writing and then announce it on Town Square and on the mailing list and then say, if you'd like to be in this conversation, please join this channel. And then Hank, you could proactively decide which of the people in which of the calls you could just sort of go through and remember which people you know you'd like to talk to and ping them and invite them to your new channel. And that would all work fine. And then you could concentrate your own conversation as you write on your own MatterMos channel. Is that Pete? That would work, right? Yeah, that's even better. Or that's the right way to do it. And actually that's kind of documented in this wiki page. Yeah. And documentation is also useful because if I if you quote anybody, you've got the quote right there. Yeah. And if I misquote anyone, I mean, they can say, well, don't read or what did you understand? I mean, that's important as well for for me, because I want to get some ideas out. And there are also some, I think, very strong OGM ideas. So if I'm citing some of them or quoting some of them, I'd like to be able to say in a footnote or in the forward or the afterward. And please look at this channel for what people actually said. And something like that. And not all the videos have not all the calls have transcripts, but pretty much all the videos have videos. So you can you can go back to source. If there's a conversation you remember happening on a particular date, you can make your way back to it. And because the chats tend to mirror our topics a bit, like you can usually deduce the topics from the chat. You could just browse the chats if you can't remember exactly which call it was or whatever. We can we can try to help you with collective memory. Yeah. Okay. There's a chunk you're trying to get to. Yeah. And if we were crabbing all of our calls, that would be a foregone conclusion, because all those little nuggets would be shiny and bright in the Indra's net. Just hanging there, mirroring all the other nuggets. And this beautiful artifact. Sorry. On that wiki page, I I it's a good kind of. So in a sense, you're talking about starting a community, you know, whether it was kind of the original intent or not. It could be. Yeah, I didn't think of it in those terms, but that would certainly shoot the type of stuff that I'm thinking of communicating with people. So just as Jerry said, a good so I think straight for for stating it that way. But when asked, where do you find the people is like, oh, on the mailing list or maybe on one or two of the most channels. But if you if you turn it around a little bit, where will we end up? That's kind of a community. And then the way to do that is to start a channel first, and then essentially point people to the channel. And then the way that you point people to the channel is you make it announced places that you can make announcements are the mailing list town square without the channel. At channel in OGM calls. There's there's an odd thing also off topic ends up having almost all the all the matter most subscribers, but the topics are supposed to be off topic. So you couldn't make an announcement there. A very tiny a very tiny side note while you're talking. So years ago at PC Forum, we used to have companies demo and we used to have Lotus Notes show up there and it was kind of a new thing back in the day. And so one day we're setting up the servers before the event starts before PC Forum starts. And they're they're brainstorming topics for threads basically in Lotus Notes. And I'm like, create a sandbox. Let's create a sandbox because people need like a playground. They need someplace where it doesn't have to be substantive or about software or about whatever. And so of course that was the busiest of all the of all the threads, but the people got to know notes through at least having a little bit of license to play. So we have the cafe we have we have like three or four sandboxes that Pete set up on the matter most. Pete, do you think everybody kind of knows the town square is everybody? I mean, like that's news when you told me. It's not very obvious. I mean, it's not from the setup. Yeah. I think that I think that should get done either when when CTA came on board, you know, it's like, okay, so here's a couple things that should know about matter most from the way it's set up and stuff like that. So town square, it does say at the top on the channel head is something like that. It says something like everybody is subscribed here or something. It's all very soft. It would be nice if there were more instructions and and then more community facilitators. Matter most itself needs more more documentation essentially on a little wiki page or something like that. And then some guides and helpers and facilitators. So yeah, Stacy. You can finish your sentence. I feel bad like I'm cutting you off just because my hand goes up. But right before this call, I was just like looking around the matter most because I don't usually spend a lot of time there. And I noticed that like there's welcome wagon, and then there's coffee shop. And I was just wondering why they're why those two are different, because what happens is you come for the welcome wagon, nobody's there. But if the welcome wagon is in the coffee shop, then they would naturally meet the people hanging out in the coffee shop. A related question is why is there a coffee shop and off topic? They're essentially the same thing, but they're different channels. I didn't get to that one yet. I didn't see that. But why not? If you combine them? Yeah, well, there's no reason to combine them. I the the thing that ought to happen. So I have no problem with coffee shop and off topics being separate channels. And they actually end up having different cultures. And I love that actually. Welcome wagon was something it was a wish thing that we did. We wish we were doing a welcome wagon activity. And so let's make a channel and do that. And then we never did. Well, so I mean, you and you and I kind of had the idea that we should create a welcome wagon channel, we created it, we then joined it, we then put a page up, we changed the text on the OGM landing page to say, hey, start here. And then nobody's found that or followed that. Because if anybody showed up in the welcome wagon channel and said, you know, knock knock, is anyone here? I think you and I would chime in. I don't know if anybody else. Yeah, it's it's a so this is a beauty in the eye of the boulder or something or usability is in the eye of the user. Whether or not it it could function, it does not function. Well, nobody found their way to it. Nobody has been nobody has been guided to it. Stacey, by the way, has found another interesting thing on the wiki. Stacey, the link is just broken. It's not the template for for community. So I put the links for the templates to projects. And partly it's broken because I don't know, there's a whole kind of hierarchy of of technical and community reasons it's broken and not fixed. It's not fixed because nobody cares if it gets fixed, except now you. So then in another year, somebody will care again. And anyway, so the welcome wagon was an idea and, you know, a a latent activity by at least Jerry and me to welcome people and stuff like that. We haven't been using it. So coffee shop is actually, well, so we could, we could push welcome wagon to be more engaged. We could do that. It would be disruptive to coffee shop to shoehorn welcome wagon into it. And coffee shop is not an OGM channel. It's a it's a pan. Which is the channel, which is the channel where I just saw like the Danny K video probably coffee shop. Okay, because that didn't see okay. Okay, it could I just sorry I was gonna say I don't know how you disrupt a conversation that has like videos of Danny K like it for me. More interesting comparison really for me is coffee shop and off topic. This is a really fascinating one for me. But coffee shop is 20 or 30 people to make this a little bit bigger. So coffee shop is 25 people. And they expect, you know, moderately interesting kind of the stuff you would the way bill bill Anderson described it to me, I think is kind of stuff that you would expect to hear in a coffee shop, right. So a Danny K video in a coffee shop makes a ton of sense. It's just like, oh, yeah, you know, bouncing around and that's the coffee shop I would go to. So, so having the OGM welcome wagon, it's kind of like, you know, 10 or 15 OGM people, they all have an OGM shirt on or however you tell OGM people or OGM hats. And they come into a coffee shop and they're loud and boisterous or they're not loud and boisterous, or they're sitting by themselves or whatever. It impacts the culture of the coffee shop, not necessarily in a bad way. But I, you know, I would call that kind of, you know, it's, it's like, you know, if you're doing a single activity, it's, it's kind of like a group of girl scouts or boy scouts or whatever coming in and, you know, hey, everybody you want to buy some candy, you know, and it's like, that's kind of in bounds for a coffee shop and kind of out of bounds. And so the little, you know, little, little tin-heared. So I seem to remember maybe it was on a well, it was someplace. There was kind of a pub and it was a thread where you'd show up and like somebody would be tending bar and pass you a virtual beer and so forth. And it was kind of cute because there was this, there was this artifact that you were in a pub and you'd have some of the traffic and chatter of a pub. And pub is different from coffee shop. And that's, that's kind of interesting. And I'm not sure why telling newbies to go get your first donut at the coffee shop would not be a terrible idea because that's a nice place to drop in and go, oh, okay, people are just chattering about different kinds of things. So maybe I see it as less disruptive than you do because it seems to me like the coffee shop is a great place to just like be seen and get known and be like, hi, welcome. Yeah. I, you know, culture is, culture is whatever happens, right? I don't want to be super prescriptive. The thing that is a little bit weird for me in that scenario is coffee shop is really not just a GM, right? So having having the GM welcome again, point people at coffee shop, it's, I don't know, it's kind of, you know, Is it too blunt? Well, it's, it's, so you could have an OGM pub, which would say serve kind of the same idea as a coffee shop. So, so pointing, it's kind of like starting to feel like I'm saying too much. Whatever happens, you know, happens. It's, it's cool. It's fine. Is it possible to put three letters before coffee shop so that people know it's not necessarily OGM? We do it the other way around. Everything without a preface is general. There are three letters before every OGM channel that says OGM. So is it possible to put that note in the welcome wagon or some kind of explanation of? Well, so I will share my, my manner most. And one more, one more thing, Pete, also to put that, that whole wiki link that I was just reading through, maybe to put that in the welcome wagon too. Yeah, the, as Jerry kind of recounted, we've done some of that already. And if you think about it, links, links don't mean a lot, right? And even documentation, right? So part of the OGM folks, Jerry and me and whoever, we've got a link here to Open Global Mind. And then we've got a link to the OGM current projects, which I clicked and can't see. But so we have a dashboard. You know, whatever you put up here, people aren't really going to read it. People don't follow links, people don't read things and stuff like that. And I'm not complaining at all. It's just a thing, right? The way a welcome wagon channel would work and the way that you communicate things like, hey, this is the place where you do X, this is the place where, you know, that's the place where you do Y. All of that stuff is communicated more or less orally in my parlance. It's something that you bring up on a call or it's something that, you know, you find a newbie and you say, hey, newbie, your welcome wagon concierge is going to be Pete or it's going to be Stacy. Could you set up a call with Stacy and she'll walk you through the, you know, the way the culture works and all that kind of stuff. And that's, I think that's the way that, well, if we wanted to welcome my new work, you know, adding a little bit or if you wanted to tell people, you know, coffee shop is not OGM or anything like that, it's not something that you would build into the information architecture. It's something that you would tell people. It's more, it's culture more than architecture, if that makes sense. So the gist, the background of what you're talking about is makes a ton of sense. You know, there should be a place where new new OGM newbies get more acculturated. I think, you know, I think Jerry, it's funny, we didn't even really leave ourselves. Part of the welcome wagon idea, I think, Jerry, if I'm remembering or reconstructing in my head was the idea that there would be a little crew of welcome wagon volunteers who would be the folks, Bill Anderson is going to pop in. There would be a little crew of volunteers. And this would be where you'd say, you know, hey, Janish is a new OGM member, please welcome him, you know, with open arms and show him around or something like that. And then the welcome wagon crew would jump into action and then say, hi, Janish, you know, how's it going? And let me set up a call with you so I can walk you through how to use this thing. So from my perspective, there's 12 people in this channel now, of which probably eight are that kind of person. It's you, me, Bill, Rob, Eric is a bunch of people that you'd want to have, Wendy, that you'd want to have as part of the welcome wagon. So we already sort of populated this room with enough humans that that could take place. I think the I think the major fail we have so far in this channel is that we're not routing anybody to it who's new. That's all. Yes, great. But it's really simple. And if newbies came here and if we answered questions, it might or might not spark the life and it might be too narrow a channel, right? Yes, totally agree, except for the really simple part. Because nothing in life is really simple. Well, it's just deceptively simple, right, or deceptively simple seeming. We have a lot of things where we say it's really simple and it doesn't happen for whatever reason. Can I ask one technical question that I'm afraid I know the answer to? In the sidebar, when you're equating yourself, when you are equating yourself with the CSC, with the Agora, you see when you first get there and you haven't involved yourself in any particular channels yet, you would see what you would just see. Would you see anything? Would you see town square? Under public channels, you see town square. And I think that's it. That's it? Yeah, I think so. And then you have to magically know or somebody has to tell you, a welcoming person has to tell you. You click the More button and then you see the list of all the channels, which I'm subscribed to all the channels, so I can't subscribe to anyone. But Bill's got a good question here too. Do you get a pop-up that says, hey, welcome to Agora, CSC or whatever. Here's where to go next. I don't think that happens. But the thing I was going to ask from a technical standpoint is whether there's any way to nest in the sidebar. In other words, to have an OGM header, a CTA header. The way that we're doing that is just in the name. I know we're doing it that way now, but I was just wondering if we could... Yeah, I don't think so. And for what it's worth, I was in a big, really active Slack of ex-Slockers, including one who is a ninja at organizing. And this is the way they ended up doing it in Slack, and it worked really well. Yeah, no, I mean, this is pretty good once you rock it, but it doesn't lead you particularly to... Yeah, so one of the benefits of Slack, and not the most, is that when somebody new comes into a channel, they can scroll back and see stuff. Unlike any other chat where you drop in and only see stuff from the moment you drop in. So here in the Welcome Wagon, we could actually drop some instructions. We could actually put a couple of notes that say, hey, here's the nomenclature for how the channels live. Here's how to add a channel for yourself. A couple of other things that could also live on a Wiki page, of course. My guess is that we'd want the... I think the Welcome Wagon channel is good for... It would be good for the crew, and I wouldn't invite newbies in there. So the newbies would end up in Town Square, and kind of for Bill, I was going to scroll back to see. So should newbies say hi on Town Square? Should everybody come in and announce themselves and say, hey, I'm here? So here's Richard Hammond joining Town Square, and he's through a jam or through someplace else? Jack Park. Right. So Jack and, you know, told Richard he should get on, actually for my point of view, it's actually for David Bowell's conversations, conversations between Jack and Mark Antoine and David Bowell. A little bit of FJP, too, I guess. So anyway, Richard joined the team. The Welcome Wagon folks could be watching this channel and see this happen, and then it would be really easy to say, you know, hi. So you'd want to reply to him on that, right? Or no? Well, so this is an interesting question. Does that create a threat? This wasn't, yeah. It's auto-generated, but he'll get a, he'll get a, he'll see it better. I don't think he will. He got mentioned here, but I don't, I don't think he's going to get notified about this. Okay. And there's no reply. And there's no reply, because it's just a system. Sorry about that. No, not at all. The other thing is, what I was thinking is, you know, you, it would be pretty easy for the Welcome Wagon crew, one of, one of the Welcome Wagon, or maybe a different way to do it. And maybe we could write this, in the Welcome Wagon, we could say something like a bot even could say out channel, at Richard Hammond, just joined. Please, you know, please welcome him. So I think the Welcome Wagon channel is probably good for the crew. And then this is where the crew decides what, what to do with other people. So you would notice Richard Hammond, if you knew that he was part of OGM, you would say, Hey, Richard, you should probably join OGM calls. And there's some other, you know, also click the more button and check all the other OGM channels that you could join. Richard may or may not be, I would not count him as an OGM person yet, I think. So, so then, so as a, as a, as a CSC person, I would love to have OGM, it's funny wearing an OGM hat, sometimes the CSC hat, and sometimes, but anyway, with my CSC hat on, I would love if OGM took on a chunk of responsibility for welcoming people to CSC, if that makes sense. And, you know, and it, and I don't care too much as, as a CSC person, I don't care too much what they do for walking them to OGM, they should, but, but they should also at the same time be walking them as long as it doesn't seem like a cult or a bunch of Mooneys or whatever. I don't mean that derogatory. When do we talk about the cult rituals? I hope none Mooneys are. Anyway, you know, it would be really cool to, a new OGM person comes on board, welcome wagon swings into action, you know, the other thing that might get, that might happen here is, you know, at Channel, I noticed, you know, Richard joined, I don't have time to welcome him, or I don't have, I won't have time this week, you know, is there somebody else who could pick, pick him up and help him. So then somebody like Richard should get a thing, hey, join OGM calls, check the other OGM channels. There's other channels that aren't even OGM that you might be interested in, like Coffee Shop, which is a little bit more, you know, a small culture off topic, and you can explain off topic. And if it's an OGM person, and there's a mailing list, if you're not on the mailing list already, you should be on the mailing list, please also start contributing to the Wiki, et cetera, et cetera. So Stacey, also in this cluster of things, we started the OGM Wiki, and it's a partially successful experiment, which is another way of saying it's partially failed experiment. We should be leaning on this a lot more, and we aren't, and I don't know how to make that happen, or even if we want to, I'm not sure that we want to, but I mean, I would love it, but I don't know if collectively we want to. Oh, I'm sorry, I'm looking at my screen, which is, I'm looking at the OGM Wiki right now, instead of- Oh, we're looking at- But I don't want to share my whole screen because I've got email up and stuff. And I just went back to our landing page, and last time Pete, you and I added it, we added a current projects page. So the start of our conversation here kind of exists as a markdown page, which we haven't done anything with. So kind of, with good intentions, we've created a couple of assets that could, in fact, maybe, with some love and care, turn into the things we're trying to do. Yes. And it's not a terrible idea to maybe promote, well, Pete, it doesn't sound like you're a fan of having the Welcome Wagon channel at all, and maybe we should deprecate it, but the alternative strategy is to take away the OGM heading and to make it a general purpose CSC or GORA Welcome Wagon, and then to see if that works. I don't, I, well, it's not that I don't want the Welcome Wagon channel. It's what its purpose is, and we kind of started it and didn't have, you know, we didn't figure out what the purpose is or we at least didn't write it down. I see the value in having a channel for the Welcome Wagon crew that could be, in some communities, that would actually be a private channel in OGM culture, it's a public channel, in the same way that we have WTW ops, you know. So I think there's a good idea to have a crew channel for saying things like, you know, hey, can anybody help me? I've got extra time this week. I'm going to work on the Welcome documents and the Welcome videos and, you know, I'd love some help. I don't really see the value in having a pan newbie channel. All the newbies get invited to it. You should just invite them to calls or whatever the, you know, the general channel was. Another question actually, we backed into the fact that calls is the de facto general channel. It would be better, I think, if it were, you know, CTA came in and the thing that they created was, they've only got one so far, but it's general discussion. A pattern over and over for chat systems is to have a general discussion channel and then, you know, specific topics. So we started with OGM calls channel because we just wanted to replace Zoom chat and then, you know, but that's de facto the one that we're using for the general discussions, but we're not using it for general discussions. And that's another thing that we should do. We should try to get some discussion going. X, X, crap, I don't know my Latin. We should, we should show X, yeah, it's official. So right now the cathedral is the OGM mailing list for of course, it, you know, there's no reason not to and we should start moving people into conversation on matter most rather than the mailing list and doing that in probably the general discussion channel. I mentioned, I don't know if this lines up with what you've seen Pete in your Slack and Discord experiences or anybody else, but being in a lot of groups, typical is typical channels are general introductions, which is a place that people are channeled to, to like, say, hi, I'm here, here's my bio, here are my links. So that is in a place where you can go back to it sort of forms of who's who and then things like meetings and which in our case might be calls, I don't know, or various subgroups, but the existence of general and introductions is a familiar one, I think, to most people. And another, another classic channel is random, random or off topic is meant to be that in matter most and then coffee shop is kind of, I think coffee shop started after the off topic. So off topic is supposed to be found random. Introductions is, I've seen it like two thirds, 70% of the time, it's not used well. It's easy for the community moderators to set up an introduction channel and then kind of like put the notes, you know, hey, make sure you introduce yourself. And if you don't have a culture of doing it and welcoming people in there, it doesn't end up happening. And then the next like 10 or 15% of introduction channels, they're really stilted. I've seen a few of them done well, but you have to watch them pretty carefully. You actually have to facilitate them. So, so then the other kinds of channels I'm used to are really real topics. And we have a bunch of those on matter most blockchain or we don't really have a COVID one, unfortunately, or fortunately, I don't know, tools and technology is really good on climactic is a good one decentralization is a good one. I do have to bounce. I'm going to pass the con to you and see you guys in a little bit. Yes, I just want to say one thing because I mean, I guess the intent is different than I'm thinking in my head, you know, like it may be the social part is not really a big deal at all. But for me, when I look at the welcome wagon, it's not welcoming. So what would but but if I look at the 12 people that you mentioned, those are definitely people I want to talk to. But it sort of reminds me of like in real life, when one person gets the job of greeting people, then they're actually sent out of the room and they're not part of the flow. So as an ambassador, let's say, that wouldn't be a place where I'd want to hang out because it's more like a job. Like nobody's there. It's let me let me just let me just finish. Let me just finish because I just want to say what I would what I would love. Let's say at the bottom it said, stop by happy hour anytime. And then there's another channel, which is happy hour, where we're talking about sort of how some people use the OGM mailing list, because not everything so serious. And then you get to know people and then you figure out where you might want to go or, you know, you should go to that channel. But at least it's getting to know people first. The CSC equivalent of happy hour is coffee shop and off topic both. And they work well, I think. Well, so so one of the one of the weird things about or one of the cool things about an asynchronous asynchronous medium like this is you can be in two rooms at once, right? If you're in the Welcome Wagon channel, it doesn't mean that you're not in the general discussion channel. So I think I apologize for going back and I feel like I'm going to repeat myself. I probably just wasn't very clear. It's interesting that we have a Welcome Wagon channel. And I think the way Jerry was thinking about it is, oh, that's where you pop everybody new in. And then you talk about, you know, you can we could pop Richard in here and then you can have a little discussion, he could say. So any channels I should know about or, you know, what do I do when I want to post about dogs or, you know, whatever, right? You could have newbies posting in Welcome Wagon and then the Welcome Wagon, you know, whoever is in there answering them. I don't see the point of that as a newbie channel. You should just put them in the general discussion channel. So or the happy hour one or both, right? Is there a happy hour one? No, there's not. I want to be a slew and keeper. Well, you're so you're well within your your rights to create OGM saloon or OGM happy hour and call yourselves a slew and keeper of OGM happy hour. You can just do that. You actually want you want to you want to get a few other people to do it with you, right? But anyway, I think if we have we should we should kind of chart it out. If you have a new person, you want to you want to join them to the most main channel, probably general discussion or calls or whatever. We should have a different channel. We should have calls and general discussion. We shouldn't just have calls or we could turn the calls channel into general discussion or something like that. But anyway, newbies going in the general channel, they could also go in the social channel like happy hour. And then I see the value of having the the welcome wagon crew, the people who volunteer to say hi to people and make sure that people feel welcomed. And that doesn't mean that anybody else couldn't do it. It just means that if we were professional about this, we would have dedicated folks that made sure that, you know, within 12 hours of somebody coming up and showing up, they would know what channels they're in, how to use MatterMos, how to find other stuff, where the wiki is, you know, that there's a mailing list that they can join all that stuff, right? If we were professional about it, you would do that. And I'm not saying that we should be or, you know, that we, I don't know. But, you know, so then those those volunteers, it's good to have a channel where you can back like, like in a hospital and the nurses break room or something like that, or, you know, or in retail in the break room, you know, it's like, hey, there was a spill on 26 and nobody cleaned it up for half an hour, what the heck was going on with that, right? Or, or I noticed, you know, I noticed a kid wandering around and nobody took care of her for, you know, five minutes. I think we should do a better job with that, or, you know, trying to think of something happy now. But there's, there's a place for, what's that? It's somebody's birthday. It's somebody's birthday. Yeah, let's, I started the card, you know, the birthday card and can everybody sign it or whatever, I know. So that's what I would do with Welcome Micah, the channel. I've thought just for, for coffee shop in the, in the short run, if coffee shop said, you know, I mean, if the title, if the name of coffee shop was coffee shop parentheses, welcome newcomers, or welcome everyone, including newcomers, or, you know, something, if that was what you saw when you saw a coffee shop, and when you first joined or happy hour, or happy hour, whatever it was called. But I mean, at the cost of creating another, since I get what you're saying, the coffee shop is kind of that already and meant to be that. But, you know, but people might not understand that it is, you know, it's not the welcome wagon. I'm sorry, I thought I heard Pete say that coffee shop is not OGM. It isn't. Okay. It isn't. And I'm just saying, like, I'm thinking, you know, where do you find out? Where do you come, whoever invited you, however you got to this matter most? You know, you see town square, which is for everybody, not just OGM. And if you saw coffee shop, as a sort of welcoming place where you could have, you know, one to one conversations with whoever's there as you can in a coffee shop as opposed to a town square, which is more of CSC's general as a whole. That might be a place. I'm just. Well, a couple things. I wouldn't, well, I wouldn't muck around with coffee shops specifically, or, you know, because, because there's culture there already, you know, whoever is in coffee shop is comfortable with the fact that you kind of have to, it's kind of a hole in the wall, right? It's like, you know, until you're new in town and you're one in the streets and you go, I can't believe this place is so boring. It's only got Starbucks, you know, and that's the point of which somebody like, you know, hey, you look okay, you know, I've seen you around a couple of times, you're not, you're not a creep. Let me bring you down to, you know, this hole in the wall, right? And then you go, oh, wow, okay, here's the culture. I, so it doesn't really need to advertise itself more coffee shop in the right now, right? I think even I probably wouldn't overload the names of the channels because you just can't fit enough explanation in there ultimately. And, and newbies have got a new environment shock, basically. It's like, I don't know anything about how to find myself a way around in here, right? And I don't know what these words mean, and I don't know, you know, channel, what does that mean? So it just, you know, the, so for a new person, if we were professional, there should be a, a, a webpage someplace that ideally the system would say, you know, go read this webpage, but at least maybe the person who invited you, if they, if everybody knew there was a webpage described, you know, CSE matter most, here's, you know, here's kind of the lay of the land that that should be a webpage, there should be one of those, and a couple of those maybe. Here's the technical part, here's the cultural part. If you're from OGM, you know, here's another OGM addendum, if you're from CTA, here's the CTA addendum, addendum. And that's probably where you would say, you know, hey, fun places to hang out if you like jokes, you know, and go here, if you want some artsy conversation, go here. If you'd like geeking out, go here. Yeah, I mean, that's, I get what you're saying about, about reacting to what I was saying about coffee shop. And it, no, no, no, I mean, I, I, I get everything you're saying. And, and I'm just thinking, like, I wonder if there's, you know, you made me think about coming to the new town and you can walk around in the town square and like, you don't speak the language and you don't know anybody and you don't know where everything is, anything is, and you're kind of stymied. If you have a guidebook, you go to the cool coffee shop, you ask a few questions, and you find stuff out, you don't have to, you aren't probably going to be stopped by somebody in the time in the, in the town square saying, you look okay, you can come to the coffee shop. That doesn't happen. And, and so I get that. So, but what there is in the town square, and maybe this is the metaphor we need is like that, that round booth with the big letter I on top of it. And, you know, they can direct you to the coffee shop if you're there for OGM, OGM is over there, CTA is over there. So that basic letter I, I wonder how, how we can affect that because it's not as complicated as a welcome wagon. And maybe it's just a non boarding screen, I don't know, you know, but I just wanted to throw that out there as a metaphor. The great metaphor. What about a visual map with just like little summaries of each of the channels? You'd get that at the, at the information booth, I think. That's what I mean, we don't have to flush out that metaphor right now, but I mean, but maybe we can think about that as well. So there's, there's two things at the, at the big blue I booth, one of them is, is like either a wall thing or maybe a brochure thing or both. The wall thing has got that little map, and you know, maybe rules and rules and suggestions or rules and regulations or whatever. So it's got some printed materials. So those are probably web pages in, you know, our, our life. The other thing hopefully it has is it's got a person there. So you can ask the person, you know, okay, so I kind of get it, but I, where do I, I want to talk about dogs, where do I talk about dogs? I don't see that on the map, right? So you do, you kind of need a, you need, it would be nice. It would be nice to have both wiki pages and then some, some information booths, volunteers, docents. Yeah. I mean, docents would be awesome. And when it's closed, you know, just the signs, for sure, is like you say. And not everybody wants to ask the docents, right? You don't want to, you know, either you don't care right now or you don't want to look stupid or whatever. So ideally the onboarding process gets you a web page to start with, maybe with a nice map and descriptions. And then, so, so I think there's, so that kind of covers matter most maybe for something like OGM, where there's more stuff, you know, hey, you know, there's, it turns out that there's a weekly call. And if you're really excited about calls, then there's like three or four weekly calls, actually. I think that's, that's where the welcome wagon makes sense, mostly. And I might add that, you know, different participants might have different levels of concierge service, like OGM might have a welcome wagon, you know, CTA might not, but it's almost like your, your signage is kind of a link tree that says, you know, CTA, OGM, and, and like that's, that's the bare bones of the, of the letter I information booth. Yeah, agreed. The pattern that we haven't mentioned specifically, but that is in the back of my mind, that isn't written down, and it should be. And this used to work for the early days of Mattermost and now it works last, but one of the patterns that I hope people have, and I don't, I wish or something like that, it's, it's not, it's not a realistic wish. I don't mind exploring around in tech tools, right? So just having somebody say, oh, and see where it says public channels, click the more button, and then you see a whole bunch of things, right? That's fun for me. So I kind of expect people to do that, you know, it's like, oh, you should click the more thing, and then you'll see things like block chaining and climactic and coffee shop and decentralization. You know, if those, any of those sound interesting, you should go check them out. And it's, you know, people won't bite usually. And, you know, just feel free to go ahead and do that. And so that for me, that's how somebody would end up finding coffee shop and deciding whether or not they like it. There's another part to that, which is you can preview a channel without having to join a channel bank. So, you know, you could actually go see if you like coffee shop before you like barge in. And all of that, all of that pattern is stuff that's not documented. That's not, it's also not obvious. And I also understand that even if it's fun for me, that's not the way many people would approach a thing, you know, they would rather have either somebody kind of holding their hand and showing them stuff or maybe a nice guidebook, you know, here's a printout of what happens in coffee shop during a regular week or whatever. This is so strange for me, because like I said, before I went before the call, I was in coffee shop and I saw Ken put up a video of Danny Ken. I thought it was a comfortable place and I thought it was OGM. So now I feel like an interloper, because I commented on a page that wasn't. And I'm like, now I'm totally confused. Well, you shouldn't feel like an intro. Well, I don't know, maybe you should. Maybe for you. Well, I, you know, own it. You're a CSC Madermas participant. So you're welcome in any of the channels you can get to. There are channels you can't get to and you don't even know about them. So if people really don't want you there, you won't even know about the channel. So you're welcome in any of the channels. I didn't eat. I think I know what CSC is, but I didn't even know what that was. I think I do now, collective sense comments. Yeah. Okay. And it's basically me, mostly. There's a one or two helpers. Okay. Any place I see a video of Danny Kay, I'm going to go. Um, you should poke around some of the other, maybe I'm going to just do this because it's on top. Well, now I know, now I'll look and I'll make sure. Yeah. So all you have to do is go down to the, down to the more button and click more and you'll see a whole bunch of places. Oh, archive channels. You'll, you'll see, you know, a bunch of channels. You'll see all of these channels. So, uh, so there's a whole bunch of GM channels, many of them, which we don't really use very much. Piragaji kind of came in and they haven't, they've been pretty quiet. Um, don't even know about, oh, quests were, quests are actually OGM things, even though they have the separate name. I'm good because I don't really belong there. I would only go to a channel at this point that I'm invited to, you know, um, like I said, but there were familiar names there. So you're welcome to join wherever you want. So, you know, you've, you're in flotilla, I think now, which is really cool. Yes. Um, hyper knowledge you might really like. Um, uh, you might not discuss stuff there, but it's a fun conversation. It hasn't happened for a while. I guess maps and mapping is another big one. You'd like that. Um, massive wiki, you're welcome. Yeah, throw me a massive wiki. Can you throw me in there? I have to go there or thank you. You're ready there. Music meta, if you like music and stuff about music. Um, off topic is really interesting. It's got almost all the, the almost, it's got, you know, almost everybody. Um, so this is where everything is allowed, kind of, which is, I mean, honestly, what, what I enjoy most are the emails. I wish there were calls that coincided with the emails because they would, it would be nice to just have it going all the time and just be able to drop in like a coffee shop. You, you might try to do that in, in Manimost because it's, it's easier to have it going all the time. And I would under happy hour. It could be happy hour. It could be, you know, it could be climate. It could be whatever. We, I guess I'm looking, I'm sorry. Should we make it an OGM happy hour channel? Should, yeah. I mean, or, or should we discuss that next week? We should. Let's discuss it next week, but I guess I'm looking for something that's see, I know you guys hate Facebook, but what I like about Facebook is I can, no, no, no, but I can go where the serious conversations are or I could just, if I'm in a mood and I want to put up a song to share with people, I could just do that. I can pick and choose, you know, like it's a little bit of everything. I just, same thing here. Well, I haven't found the right channel that has the mix of like getting to know people and being comfortable. Yep. And not being too like, you know, spammy with stupid crap because I don't have a high tolerance for stupid crap. So, so it sounds like we should, we should have an OGM happy hour channel. I mean, what? Where anything goes? I mean, if we have a few more minutes, maybe so there's, there's some things that we talked about on this call that should happen, kind of. And maybe we should take those as notes and then bring them into the next call. Does that sound like a good user? Yeah, that sounds like a good idea. I mean, I threw in the information booth. Yeah. Between, you know, is HackMD or Google Docs? Hey, there's fun by me. Google Docs, because I don't even know what HackMD is. I thought it was where you look up your illnesses. I have that same reservation when Pete for HackMD. I was like, that does not sound like the association of those two words does not sound like a positive thing. Something you're going to walk away from healthy. So now I have, now I have fires, we've got fires remorse or something collaborators remorse. So I hate to do this. I hate to bait and switch. We should switch this over to HackMD and then and then it'll end up in the wiki. If it's in Google Docs, it's going to end up never in the wiki. Okay, you want to show us what happened? I mean, Michael might know, I have no idea what HackMD is. The MD, the MD and HackMD stands for Markdown. Okay, thank you. So there's no good reason for it. Well, I mean, I don't know, whatever. HackMD is a lot like Google Docs. For fun, historical and technical reasons, there's two sides to it. This is, this is a, this side is kind of like source code and this side is kind of like a webpage. So instead of having them in one place, like Google Docs is there in two places, kind of great. So the right hand side is Google Docs, essentially. Okay, so I guess I could make this. Okay, so welcome again. And yeah. Just a question. Are these under the build OGM meeting headline? Are these OGM matter most channel suggestions or suggestions for CSC? Good question. And then, and then this kind of splits into two things. Does OGM want to help CSC with things or is OGM just going to say, yo, CSC, you should do this, but we don't want to help. Let me actually spell these perfectly correctly rather than, I hope that's still readable. And Stacey, just for your info, like if Pete shared the URL for this, you were, you and I could be adding to it to, not that you should Pete necessarily, but that's one of the things about HackMD. It's a, I will, in case you want to have my document. So OGM calls and then OGM welcome again. Okay, so those are the channels that we talked about specifically. And I, we should talk about this again. So each of those things I think we should talk about again. Yeah. Anything else? I'm going to add something. Thanks. So Stacey, the happy hour, you said it would be really cool if we had kind of an ongoing call for the discussions in the email list is this, and then I said, you know, a channel is easier than a call. Not that I'm against calls, but channels are just easy on calls. No, no, I like this idea. And I'm just thinking, I want to think through it because I'd like to see like a section, like, you know how like, like Ken Homer will come up with like a, when he was on Facebook, he would throw in like a comic. I'd like it to be a place where like, there's a comic there, he could even talk about the cartoon, like almost like a theme. Yep. So when a happy hour channel kind of get what you want. And I would be happy to hang out there. That would be my home. So then we've also talked. So not that this is really written down anywhere, but anybody can create a channel whenever they want. And maybe someday that won't be that won't be the way that we make new channels on matter most, but it is right now. So what's that? It's just so hard with so many channels, because like imagine if in our conversation, every time we just change the subject, we had to move to another channel. Like it just, for me, it's hard. It doesn't feel integrated. It's like, all right, well, do I put this here? Do I mean, I get that it has to be this way? It doesn't have to be. You could have everybody talking about everything one time. Well, that's what I'm hoping this happy hour place could be, so it could flow naturally. I think I think at some point you'll end up liking channels, but I do. I like them for really concentrated discussion, because if you want to get something done, you want to weed that out. But I but I want the place where it's where it's like, you know, anything goes. Oh, that that reminded me of this. And if you separate that, then no, I totally agree. A question just about welcome wagon. Does that exist already? Or is that something that we'd be creating? It exists already. And we should do something with it. Okay. And I'm just going to offer. You want me to join you, Michael? What's that? You want me to invite you to I'm going to. Oh, yeah, sure. Just so that you remember it, not that you could you could leave. I was just going to share a thought, which I'll do in the hack and D just that that. Possibly abridging its name to welcome. The welcome wagon as a metaphor is one that generationally. Yeah, I think the three of us. I've never experienced it, but I've heard of it, you know, because it was a thing. Yeah, and my parents moved into a new neighborhood and for people younger than us. I remember I actually actually discussing this as we created welcome wagon. I just threw away my welcome wagon phone book that I had for like a really long time. I think the welcome wagon, you know, was how you were introduced to the milkman or something. Yeah, but yeah. So meaning it to be a little bit more hip, it might be a thing, but I think it's just accessible. Just like decipherable. Well, as a crew channel, I think it's a cute name. And it's fine that it's a little obtuse. I don't think we should have a general welcome channel. Well, I'll just I will say that maybe we should have an introductions channel, although you really need to take care of them. Stacey, where I was going with anybody can create a channel is not that we should have a proliferation of channels. But really, technically, any one of us could go make OGM happy are like literally the second. But it's better if it's, well, creating a creating a discussion, creating a channel is starting a channel and getting it to be successful. It's kind of like building a campfire or something like that. You know, you have to have a plan, you have to have gathered enough kindling, you have to have sustained activity over time. So really what you want to do is get a few people together. And actually, this is so for any channel, what you want to do is you want to have a couple people coming up with the idea that there could be a channel. And then you want to have a good and descriptive name. And then you create it with a few of the seed panel, the seed people, and then you you continue to add people to it for a month or whatever until, you know, until it's building also like sourdough starter or kombucha. I totally agree. So even though, you know, well, even though we could create the happy hour right now, we should have a plan a little bit more. Anything else? Not for the recorded version. I'll stop the recording. This will stop sharing the recording.