 Welcome welcome to class cast number eight. We're here with tips out. We're here with stay safe, and we're here with our friend Mr. GM Mr. Game Master reviews the the artists formerly known as so So we're here in case you guys hadn't heard we We did finally get our very first update about about classic servers from Blizzard the first thing that we've heard since Since blizzcon actually and it's honestly something that everybody was pretty surprised to hear Nobody really expected anything to hear anything this early, but before we go into that Mr. GM do you want to you want to introduce yourself and introduce yourself to the audience for us a little bit? Yeah, Mr. GM. Mr. Game Master reviews previously been doing YouTube for like years and years 2011 You probably saw my low quality content back then had a few views doing some Undocumented things, but yeah, I recently been doing some data mining and BFA I have a history with like fiddling with the game files, which is a probably a bad word fiddling Yeah, no fit them with the game files and doing all sorts of funky stuff of it, which is yeah, this Dev thing is is awesome. So hopefully we can pull it apart and kind of get an idea of what's going on with classic today Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely So Let's let's go right into it Basically what we heard and I'll I'll give a quick overview and then and then we'll go in a little bit deeper But what we heard so far is that they're basically already two prototypes in they're already two prototypes in and I mean that to me personally that's shocking. I don't know about you guys I was not expecting to be this foreign development having not heard anything yet, right? Yeah, well, they have at least two they could have more, you know, right exactly, right at least you Really good point really good point, but but yeah, I thought it was something that that very shocking very exciting to hear And they're two prototypes in they've tried to do it two different ways And then they explained kind of what they're doing and what they saw differently between the two different ways They've done it which one was basically trying to build it from the ground up the second way that they've been trying to do it is to to strip down the the current version of the game and Get it back to an authentic Representation of vanilla patch one point one twelve and then they kind of gave a little bit of an overview for what they want to see for the future Tips you kind of want to break down the or go into the first prototype a little bit about what they saw Yeah, so essentially during the first first like I guess the first rodeo so to speak What blizzard was trying to do was they were trying to take the original base game The original code the original data and they were trying to port it up to the modern infrastructure So essentially essentially take the base game and make it fit on modern hardware modern video cards and so on and so forth Unfortunately after a couple of pass-throughs, they were able to pull it off But they noticed that the game was crashing consistently There are a lot of bugs a lot of errors and essentially there was I guess 12 less years of polish on the game So they decided instead of porting it up from what it was originally to take a different approach and port it down Yeah Yeah, I think I think it's pretty interesting looking at looking at that basically because it's a lot of people were a little bit Worried about that right a lot of people were a little bit worried about that because they're like well Are you basically taking the retail game or are you like if you're taking it? You're stripping it down from the retail game and you're porting it down like you put it I think a lot of people are Concerned right because they they say like well can can we get a little bit more in-depth explanation of what that means? overall, I think that I got a good vibe from it personally and I know You guys stay safe you were talking about especially in your industry in the other day There's a little bit of discussion discussion going on about The there's a specific phrase about similar conveniences whenever they were talking about the 12 years You want to go into that? Yeah, so they said Additional at the very end of this of this water core discussion if you guys have it up on Europe They said additional modern improvements will include modern Anti-cheat slash botting detection and that's really really good in my opinion You guys know warden, which was the original do they still use warden on retail? Do you know mr. GM? Yeah, they're anti-cheat system. I think I don't quote me on that But I think it's like an advanced version or better Yeah, so back in the day it wasn't very good There were a lot of ways you could kind of get around it and suspect things Updated anti-cheat anti-botting detection software really really good for classic. That's a really good thing a lot of Yeah, that's there's a big need for that. Um, so they said updated anti-cheat anti-botting detection Customer service, which is important. You're going to have to have like a GM team customer service team and battle net integration And this is the this is the the controversial part and quote similar conveniences that do not affect the core gameplay experience cash shop Panic everybody engine finder. Oh my god Well, they say they say I think um and similar conveniences and then to try to calm people down That do not affect the core gameplay experience. So what what do you guys think could be another similar convenience? Uh among the lines of anti-cheat Botting detection customer service battle net that wouldn't affect core gameplay. What do you think those could be? I mean we brought it up a little bit earlier before we started But hopefully things like you know being able to shift click into the auction house for example Um being able to you know shift compare pieces of gear possibly. I have no idea Right click somebody and put them on your ignore list. Maybe something along those lines I hope it's things that are very very limited and very very interface focused Not so much, you know gameplay not so much meta not so much cash shop oriented I know I mean about that earlier, but you know that that could be a possibility, but I definitely hope not Yeah, you think they'll uh go as far to add the like collections tab because obviously in vanilla You had like uh mount items and pet items and stuff and it just filled your bag If you had like a load of those but nowadays obviously it's all spells and it's all learn into this Needle interface. Do you think they'll go as far to do that because I actually Doesn't affect the core gameplay, but it's still obviously A big change I think that having to manage your bank slots and inventory slots with mounts and pets and whatever else you want to have gear sets that That is a very formative part of vanilla. I think that definitely would impact your gameplay experience Yeah, I think so too. And I mean that's coming from someone like me who I have like freaking I have like five sets of gear in vanilla. I might have five sets of gear at any given time at least so Anybody who's watched my streams. I've got the same issue in in legion. So I just look messy But my bags are always full and I always got a bunch of crap everywhere and Like you said stay safe. I do think that's a big part of the gameplay Just like knowing how to manage your bags and you have to have a bank character and send your consumes I have stuff sitting in my mailbox half the time like my mailbox is just like filled with consumes basically that I've just been like porting between my two characters at all times um I think I think as far as the cash shop goes Uh We're all pretty much on this. I I don't know anybody who wants the cash shop in vanilla I I really don't I think it's really I mean, I've been I've been asking for that for ages in the forums, man I mean, I just hope it comes and I think like whenever whenever people hear cash shop They they automatically assume They assume stuff like pay to win they assume stuff to buy in the game for that game Uh I do know and it's just something that they've been doing in their games Like you can go in and you can buy like, uh You can buy like game time. You can buy stuff like that within the client I'm gonna be honest. I don't even want that. I don't I don't necessarily care for it. It's it's not a big deal to me Um, but I do think that's different than putting the wow token in or putting in even vanity pets I don't want vanity pets. I don't want mounts. I don't want any of that stuff in classic wow I don't want any of that stuff in through cash shop and in classic wow Yeah, I think there's a very big distinction Between having a cash shop icon in game that allows you to purchase things that affect your gameplay Like a wow token like a pet like a mount versus having a cash shop icon in the game That allows you to buy a service like a realm transfer or whatever was available back in vanilla Like right now if you go into the actual cash shop in retail Wow, you've got your mounts. You've got your pets You've got your bundles and then I think you have something called a services tab I wouldn't mind a services tab so long as the services were the services available back in vanilla If there are services that were beyond what was available in vanilla, obviously I would not want that But something like putting in a cash shop in the game that little cash shop icon that only allows you to purchase services That pertain to vanilla that existed during vanilla I wouldn't mind that although. I definitely would not want it to be in the game Yeah Stay safe are you frozen? He has incidents gone down. Oh, oh crap. Okay. There might be a thing But um, it's fine. We'll just we'll just go. I'll get it fixed in a second. But uh But yeah, no, I think another thing that we just talked about too was uh talking about basically the uh Oh, look at that There you go. Yeah, no, it's just going to be like this until uh, here. Let's let's try and get somebody else on the call here Mr. Jim, is that your dirty underwear on the floor over there? Looks like a thong man, and I just get yeah here. Uh, I'm gonna do this real quick Actually, I'm gonna get somebody else on the call and hopefully this will just like fix it for us for a little bit Just gonna do anything Oh god, no, I messed it up No, I'm gonna try if somebody first person who DMs me and just wants to join the call And I'm gonna mute you so you can help us out. That'd be awesome DM me on discord Please add a big musk is big musk in here Countdown to classic. Yeah, here we go. I got I got somebody Uh, so yeah, basically what I was talking about was uh, let me add this real quick Uh, what I was talking about was uh having There is that good. Oh, we I mean it'll it's messed up, but it's fine Okay, at least at least we got us all on the screen for now, but um, but basically You gotta crop my camera. I think Yeah, I mean, it's fine. We'll just we'll just we'll just roll with it for now but um, what I was talking about whenever you whenever you mentioned the auction house stuff if they go and Add something like the shift right click stuff like that I honestly don't really necessarily even care for that stuff because there's there's add-ons for that anyway Like you download auctioneer or something or download ox. Those are two different auction add-ons um Stuff like that will be I think Stuff like that is if they add it in or they don't add in I I don't care for it I don't necessarily care either way, but there's definitely add-ons for it So it's not I don't think it's something that people should be like, oh, I need this like I have to have this I don't think anybody's going to be in a situation where they're going to be begging for it, you know Yeah, honestly based on how they've worded that phrase I don't think they're planning on a specific feature in mind I think they just kind of left it open ended and cased down the line somebody's playing classic wow and realizes Oh my god. Why can I suddenly shift click this item in the auction house? It's like, oh, yeah Well, that's you know one of the similar conveniences we had in mind because I'm sure when they port the game down They're probably going to miss a couple of things in that first period I don't think any of them are going to be game breaking But there might be some small things like that right clicking somebody's name to be able to ignore them That stuff wasn't available in vanilla and we might get a few things here and there But I don't think they're thinking of themselves. Okay. We are going to include this particular feature I just I don't think they would Yeah, absolutely I really think it's going to be something minor like the interface like really really minor. Oh stay safe. Come back Here we go. We got him. There we go. There it is. Can we hear you say safe? Uh, hello, there you go, dude. We got you. Look at that. Look at that Yeah, rotate your phone around or turn on turn on your uh, you I think you have your auto rotate turned off Yeah, let's check. Yeah, that's fine, too. If you just want to hold it like that at least it works Look at that. There we go. There it is. Yeah, either way is fine. Either way is fine. Yeah But uh, anyway, so let's go ahead and move on like talking a little bit more about the second prototype One of the big issues so the reason they went from the first prototype which was to Build it up from the bottom up build build rebuild the game from the bottom up That's something we had talked about. I'm sure all of us have talked about it on our streams from before If they were if they were going to Re-release this game a lot of people have this misconception of oh, they can just like put it out next Tuesday if they wanted to But it's really not that simple. Yeah, it's not that simple at all so like if you go and and you want to have like a Company in 2018 wants to release a product a product, right release a game like this They're going to want it to be high quality. They want it to be polished And if you were to put out basically what was the 1.12 client and just like basically Spaghetti code it together to try and get it to work. You're going to have issues, right? You're going to have issues with crashes. You're going to have issues with You're going to have issues across the board with with all kinds of stuff with the Currents with with based with modern technology and then the past coding and it basically not linking up together And people talk about like well private servers got it to work I know for me like and I can it wasn't just me but I upgraded my video card and I have gildies who upgraded Video cards and they would use the 1.12 client and they noticed way more crashes. They noticed certain things happening You'll notice on the 1.12 client. You'll go into raids. You'll go into different things and You're a lot laggier than you are in legion with a much better computer like if you have a really high-end computer And you're playing the game and you're not getting any lag in legion. You can still lag in vanilla I know for me personally like on the 1.12 client. I get a lot of lag Okay, I it's just how it works, right? So they would want to go and rebuild this game from the bottom up And whenever they try to do that and they try to basically spaghetti code it together It didn't work and that's why they're going to go and they're they're working on stripping it down essentially so Yeah, I mean they finished the step water cooler talk by saying every code check and data conversion We make brings classic web closer to providing an authentic experience you and we want I think that's a they say that to highlight like that's that's what they're doing That's where 99 of their effort is right now is restructuring the stuff Yeah I mean just based on that statement as well I think it was abundantly clear from that update that blizzard is very cognizant of what the community wants And I want to give them credit for that only because You know, it was it's been a very tumultuous seven months We've had no idea what they were listening to and what they were rejecting Up until now we had no confirmation Literally that transmog wasn't going to be in the game And we have people on forums like that we're arguing about it until a couple of days ago basically So I think they're very aware of what players want I like that they tried to go the 1.1 route and then they transitioned to the 112 It kind of shows you that they were trying to please the community They were trying to recreate the most authentic vanilla experience possible And moving ahead as we talk about similar conveniences and whatnot I I think based on their approach to to you know, their their original prototype I don't think similar conveniences will mean anything beyond what was in the game from patch 1.1 to 112 Yeah, for sure for sure Like transmog and achievements and stuff. So that's like completely thrown out the window with that I mean other features like looking for dungeon and stuff. There's just no way Absolutely no way they would ever add that just imagine like who would that be for? Yeah, what would be for yeah, exactly like it's it's You have okay. You essentially have two separate markets of people and there's yes There's an overlap right there's going to be people who want to play bfa There's going to be people who want to play classic and there's going to be people who want to play both There is a a a little bit of overlap there But what blizzard needs to do is you can cast a wide net by having two separate games for two separate types of gamers And uh, you know some people some gamers like both of those things and that's fine. That's great um I think that they get it I think that they get it and the line that really like it hits home Is it's it's the last line of the thing they or it's in the last paragraph of the dev water cooler of the update We say or they say we're looking forward to the challenges ahead and share your passion for the classic game Every code check-in data conversion we make brings wow classic closer to providing that authentic experience You and we they highlight that and we want thanks for joining us on this journey So They they have heard the feedback from the community I know in my personal experience just like, you know, you talk to people you get the vibe You get the sense that they they want more of a no changes type of approach or at least as much as possible as much as they possibly can Of course, they did say they're going to add battle man. They're going to do some things like that Which again, that was something that everybody kind of expected as well. I think the importance comes from just doing it the right way Uh, I know I've talked about that a lot in the past. What do you guys think about? battle net essentially Um, I mean they could I mean you you could look about an integration you could think potentially obviously that could mean Friends and cross realm across faction chat and stuff like that But you know, it potentially could just mean that they're putting on the launcher at the very very minimum That's what they mean by battle net integration potentially, but Probably not it probably is some sort of like friends list with being able to add other players Which obviously isn't what something like a lot of people want. I think stay safe said about about collusion and stuff like that. It's uh An issue with like horde and alliance players interacting. It's just not something that they like classic ever had You know, I used to play classic. I see a horde character And I would I could literally look at them and think I wouldn't understand I can wouldn't even know how to communicate them like in real life Apart from obviously the slash like wave or whatever and it's like they're speaking another language Which is an awesome like a merge from an immersion standpoint. It's incredible You know, you look at this other faction. You're like can't talk to him. He's gonna kill me I need to get the hell out of it or take him on like that's it You know with like battle net you could be like, okay, he's killed me four times in a row Let's add him as a friend and uh, you know, see what's up sort of thing But um, yeah, I don't know. I don't know how I feel about it I think I'd rather have it read only Where you can like just have your friends that you've already got and if you really want to add someone you have to do Outside of the game, which would probably be the best way to do it to not piss off a lot of people But you got a thing like I guess one argument for it is that the person So you can't literally just whisper a horde character if you're aligned They still have to accept your friend request and if you get a friend request from some random guy What are the chances you're going to accept it? So I guess that's one argument for and against But yeah, I don't know I'm I mean, yeah, you can go ahead. You can go ahead Well, I was just gonna say like for me, it's very simple Like when you have the ability to communicate cross-faction in vanilla world of warcraft That opens up the door for a lot of cross-faction collusion, which was against the original to us Why would you implement a feature that's against your own rules? Why would you enable behavior that you've dictated in the past is toxic and is averse to what the game should be about And on top of that from an immersion standpoint like you mentioned, mr. GM You guys all know the feeling especially if you play it on pvp servers You know the feeling of coming across that alliance or horde opposite faction member while you're questing an stv And uh, they're flagged you're flagged. You're like, oh crap, you know, what's he gonna do is gonna attack me You know, your eyes dart to the corner of your screen. Look at your hp like, oh my god, can I take him? What's his hp? How many more quest mobs do I need? You know, all these things rush through your mind as you decide whether or not you're gonna engage this person And it creates an incredibly primal and visceral fear inside your heart like this, you know, this whole sense of suspense Why would you ever want to take that feeling away from the game? um, and you know Like It's just insane to me. It's absolutely insane. I think it's very simple and I'll ask the chat this Chat wouldn't you be down if the only way you would access bnet is from the launcher and you just click on classic? Wow And then that's that you're in the game and there's nothing else or do you want to see any kind of like bnet integration in the actual game like Hey, yo, uh, i'm back boys. Okay Yo, let's see it. Yo, can I can I chime in here? So on battle net if you want to have someone add it on battle net They could very easily make and I think I think this is how it works on retail You have to have their battle net id mine is stay safe hashtag something something is a number um If you're adding a horde characters battle net id that collusion has already happened because you had to get that id from them off platform Anyway, the collusion has already happened. So yeah, I don't think they should really foster it and doorbell or encourage it But like in reality the collusion has already happened. The stuff happens anyways off platform um I I don't think it's like a huge giant deal Well, here's the thing like the other day around yesterday on stream I was literally randomly questing somewhere and I saw a horde member. I was playing on my line's character I saw a horde guy and I was just like doing an example on stream like guys watch this I right click his name. I add him to bnet. He accepts right away and I'm like, yo, dude I'm questing here. Can you like not kill me and he's like, yeah, dude. No problem. Wow Yeah, let me do this on stream yesterday and I wish somebody clipped it, but it's like Why would you want to have that kind of it just takes away from a pvp server? And I just feel like pvp servers are meant to be these war zones where the factions hate each other Where you have no method of communicating with somebody else except like scuffed emotes and that's an experience in and of itself I just don't like the idea of taking away that feeling. Well, here's the thing. Um I mean just being realistic about it like they they are going to add battle net like they like that's basically confirmed Um, I mean, I mean it is confirmed. They said they're going to they are going to be adding battle net But uh as much as we would like I know for me like battle net is not a big deal Like I could care less for it if it like if it's not in the game like I would prefer that honestly, but Given that we already know that it's already in the game or that it's already going to be in the game The thing that I think needs to be conveyed and the thing that I hope lizard understands Is that it just has to be done the right way just like you said tips. Uh, it's an example It's it's a good example You know, it's one of the first things I actually noticed whenever I started playing legion is uh Or actually it was the first time I like right clicked on an enemy horde portrait I saw that it was like ad friend and I was like what the frick What the crap is going on It's so like unintuitive to me and again, like Like people aren't stupid, right? There's other methods that exist. There's discord. They're I mean There's vent if you want to use vent. There's uh myspace. There's a bunch of stuff myspace. I'm joking But no, there's there's there's a bunch of different ways to communicate with people that are cross faction that are that are not in the same faction as you um But the problem is is whenever you Go and you enable it and and stay safe touched on it too. It's it's you're basically you're You're giving them the tools to Uh do collusion right to set up some sort of thing like I I I think I gave this I might have given this example in the Last class cast. I don't remember about uh Getting ganked at menothal harbor like people would duel each other and then they'd have like a real-life friend that plays horde And like a road would just come and like they'd start a duel and they'd be fighting And then the real-life friend on the horde side would come and gank them while they're on the boat And then the guy would hop on the boat and the guy missed the boat while he's trying to run back I mean it's admittedly funny Stuff like that is not stuff that they want to promote and people would get in trouble for stuff like that um I don't know I like I said in a nutshell Best case scenario like in my personal opinion like I don't even want it But they just have to know that it needs to be implemented the right way Don't allow methods in order for you to Make friends with people cross faction in game and maybe even completely shut off any sort of communication With anybody's playing on the opposing faction on the same on the same server on the same realm. So I agree Um Yeah, I also I also think it's like mr. GM suggested It's very it's very likely that the extent of battle integration is just having it on the launcher Like that that could very well be all it is. Who knows. Yeah, that's true. That'll be good I'll be happy like you just click it and then you're in a time warp where none of this stuff existed. Yeah All right, uh, one thing actually I guess kind of slightly on topic. I suppose Um battle for azeroth is going to be 64 But only so do you think the Classics going to be 64 but only you can't crack out your old pack hard bell or whatever you you guys use back in the day And uh, play it on your 32 32 bit system They're actually they're actually removing it. So you can't actually get out an old pc and play it on it I'm just kind of sad, I guess Yeah, I I think that's uh, I honestly think that's a probably a safe assumption to make especially if they're going back And they're stripping it down uh, because they probably won't And you know something to touch on You guys remember the the Forbes article that came out back in january Which if I'm if I'm right, I think I'm right on this That the Forbes article that came out in january was actually an interview that was conducted like right after the classic announcement with jalen brack But it just wasn't released until january and uh He mentioned how blizzard essentially does not want to go through and and have to manage two mmo's And this falls basically right in line with that where they originally thought like hey this first prototype was trying to rebuild it And then they realized okay, this is not This is not working out and if they go in and they do the second prototype Basically, he he he basically alluded to it back then even even back right after blizzcon time So again stay safe hit set it a little bit earlier This is all they're willing to tell us now Who knows they could be actually significantly farther than farther than this And I really I think they are I think they are too It could mean that classics a lot sooner than than we had uh that we had most recently expected Yeah, break it down for us. Mr. GM on a technical on a technical standpoint Going prototype two is it a lot easier a lot faster than prototype one That's I'm probably gonna say some stuff and I'm sure some like devs are gonna kill me for it So you're like oh, you're such an idiot Well real quick real quick before you go into it before you go into it just to explain You know we we've we've gained some viewers and stuff since we first introduced mr. GM The Mr. GM what he does and and what he's what he's well known for is basically Data mining he's he's done a lot of data mining in vanilla. He's done a lot of data mining in In legion as well. So you've seen both sides of it. You've seen both sides of the data Right, you know how it worked in the past. You know how it works now And again, that's why we thought mr. GM would be such a good guest to bring on because he could give us Quite a bit of insight into that. So Just wanted to hypen you up a little bit No, go ahead go ahead man spew out some lies, but no um the The second prototype does sound super interesting From what I gather from like when they talk about the the digging in bear and all the crazy table stuff they're basically Think of it like you've got your legion stuff and like I've said this before like all the old models from the game Like people argue about new graphics and stuff like for example They added a new bear model in legion that old bear model that really you know scuffed one is still in the game They know they never remove the old models. They're still in there So think of what they're kind of doing with the second prototype from what I can gather It looks like with a lot of the data. It's kind of like filtering So they're saying this is all the classic data Grab it from the legion stuff the things that are missing will work on And then they're doing like a massive conversion with the game files Like the game files back in vanilla of tbc raft all in like basically english You could probably spend like two three hours looking at it and go okay This does spells and as you can see like in their example on the dev water cooler They say the spell does one two three effects. It has an aura as well. It's very very layman's terms But these days it's like everything's split into a million things So you've got spell and then you've got all these like crazy flag numbers and all this Stuff that I just have no idea what it is and then you've got spell effect Which is another table and what they're doing is basically converting all that old data Into the new data. So you've got like the old Vanilla like spells and stuff like that and they're putting Using like a massive converter to make it into the new stuff I think you know a conversion like that. I don't know how long that would take But once you do it once it's pretty much it, you know, and then it's just a case of checking absolutely everything like the Like the testing for something like that because there's so many spells like not just Your average class spells not just your your spells that bosses do There's also stuff that like quest triggers and like Area triggers and things that game objects do when you click them Like something as simple as like clicking on a chair and sitting on it Is probably some sort of spell in the get in the files, you know, probably not even Like 25 percent of the Like the spells that you see in the game are the ones that you see 75 percent of them are just background things and do So from like a testing point of view, they're going to need every rock flipped over and I don't think they're going to be able to do that internally Uh, so they need thousands of people to run in here and just click on everything and try everything in the world Just to make sure something isn't broken because you know, there could be A thousand things at work and one doesn't and that's not probably going to be good enough for them Because I know what blizzard alike, especially in more recent times. They're very very like Precise with what they like to uh to put out there Yeah, and uh, you know, I know they need thousands of testers, but I think we can find a couple of thousand What do you think chat? Yeah, I think would you guys want to test would you guys like 800? Yeah, it it would not surprise me if they went and did a did a very big beta I think I think the beta is going to be big and and we can talk about that a little bit You know just kind of touch on it. I do think the beta The beta for classic or the alpha or whatever they want to go into. I think it's going to be very important Not just to make sure that the game's up and running can handle everybody on it I know that's you know just from from what I've heard whenever they go into an alpha phase At least this was the way it was with bfa They want to basically just make sure people can play like people can log in people can play and they can run around And that's why one of the alphas up like half the world's not even complete and this and that Yeah, I think I think that's going to be important But more so I think a lot of the more intricate stuff and how they want to design little things going into the game and Going off the 1.12 base What do you what do you guys think about the beta I think a beta is going to be very important Like mr. GM said soon Like mr. GM said I think it needs to be big and long And they need to flip over every single rock, right? They need like we need to try to sit in every single shared that's in the game and all this open every door and open every chest up like that um I think between them restructuring these databases and and integrating the old game with the modern hardware and software Like I think this is shaping up potentially to be a like the smoothest running Most sleek version of vanilla. Wow that we've ever played on the servers or actually back in the day It's going to be really really sleek. I think Yeah, the problem is at what point does the sleekness start to detract from what the original game was and I'm not going to lie This was my biggest fear when I was reading the part about the prototype too I'm not a technical expert at all. I have no idea how this stuff works But the idea of using the modern client for those that have played both vanilla and the modern game Aside from abilities aside from like, you know, the overall differences of the games There's a certain feeling of like extra buttery smoothness and retail That didn't exactly exist in vanilla vanilla still had a little bit of an edge to it. Things were just a little bit more choppy I don't know. I don't know if it's a rational fear or not But what happens if vanilla starts to feel so smooth? That it actually feels almost like an identical clone from like an actual feel point of view to the modern game Is that something we should be afraid of? I don't know if people understand what i'm talking about here, but So I know what you're saying and there's a couple different examples of that that might contribute to that that immediately jump into my mind That the spell queuing system is different between vanilla and retail spell queuing is more sleek in in retail. Wow and uh, or I spell queuing and also, um Tabbing targets tab targeting is really a lot different. I would yeah, it's a lot more efficient I guess is a word for it. Uh, it is in retail. Wow It's almost like smart predictive tab targeting if that makes sense Uh, I know one thing just from my experience like, you know Having played both right like many of us have The game has such a different Uh, it feels so much smoother part of that's the latency issue, right being in the u.s Part of that's the latency issue But the other part is just like how it's coded everything is so smooth the server side spell queuing um I don't know. I to to be honest with you. That's not something that would It's not something that would that would worry me and it's something that honestly I kind of expect because there's times where like for example I I hit the buttons too fast It's because I'm an athlete. I have really high, you know, really high reaction time. No, I'm just kidding It's just how the game works, right? Like if you go like seal judge seal too fast It just won't activate and you'll have the highlight around the seal Right, so you get a highlight around the seal and it just bugs. So Stuff like that I'm hoping is is fixed Right, because that's I mean there's times where I've done that and then not even realized it And I miss an auto attack with the seal, right the the five of us that are playing rep paladins and vanilla might have that issue But yeah, no, I think uh, I think that's something that I I I have no I have no qualms with that Do you think like like heavy? No changes people will be like super no changes people, uh, like Well, I mean, I don't know because because stay safe was pretty 1.1 true progressive and uh Blizzard hung the carrot and he was like no whatever do whatever you want to do Well, yeah, I was I mean I'm trying to look at this from blizzard's point of view I think this is the reality and this might upset people But I think this is how it is the people like myself that wanted 1.1 1.2 Whatever they want to like the actual all the quirks and weird balances and weird different things that happen throughout vanilla. Wow I'm one of those people Those people are the vast minority of the player base of the people that will be playing classic. Wow Um They like really blizzard doesn't maybe have to worry about upsetting those people because they're such a hyper minority You know like most of the people that are going to be playing classic. Wow They're not going to notice these things. They're not even going to know there was a change that took place at all Right, like if they have legion tab targeting in vanilla. Wow, how many people are really going to know or care How many people are how many people are even going to know in the first place? Yeah, people. Yeah, you're right You know that it is the same like the same as legion, but I mean who's going to care People complain about it in legion like I'm sure there's people here who have a problem with it Yeah, it would be the minority. Absolutely um So so kind of taking that right we we server side spell killing stuff like this might happen. We might get that sort of feel um We talked about we we touched on the beta and how this is the kind of stuff that we might see Um, oh real quick. I do want to mention before we go I typed this out in the chat a little bit earlier if you guys have any questions Feel free to tweet at us tweeted any of us with hashtag classicast We'll also be answering questions out of the chat as well But if you guys want to you know, send us some stuff on twitter There's probably a higher likelihood that we'll see it with chat spam and whatnot, but um But yeah, sorry going forward. Um, what do you guys what do you guys see as? Um As far as the release date goes and and we we again like we touched on it just a little bit earlier as far as the release State goes. What do you guys see as uh How's your guys opinion change? Excuse me. Sorry. I phrased that kind of weird But how's your guys opinion changed you guys think it'll be a little bit sooner and and how much sooner Do you guys think it could be because a lot of us said that it couldn't be it could possibly not even be released as far as Uh, November 23rd 2019, which would be the 15th anniversary Right. Yeah a week ago a week ago if someone has said stay safe I'll bet you a thousand dollars. We'll hear about classic. Wow before blizzcon this upcoming blizzcon I would have said, okay, I'll shake your hand. I would have been a thousand dollars I did not think we hear it and then and then we did and then they released this water cooler q&a I've never been happier to be wrong. Seriously. I'm so happy to be wrong about it. I think this is really good I think this means we're going to be getting new more frequent updates more frequent updates Um possibly an earlier beta and alpha and then release after that Earlier than expected Yeah, I mean, I I've got to concur with stay safe. I'm not sure if they're I guess anticipated release date has changed from blizzard side of things. I think they've always kind of known I'm sure they picked out like a timeframe went to release the game But I think from our understanding The fact that they've decided on patch 112 I think shows that they have a very I guess I don't want to say rigid, but they have an idea of what they want to do I think that's very very important because up until now I wasn't exactly sure that they did when it came to like which patch they would use and whatnot So so that's very very I guess reassuring Um, does that change the fact that that we could possibly, you know, you see it, you know Before june of next year, maybe Maybe I mean if they have a playable demo at blizzcon for example or a larger update at blizzcon And stacy have actually brought this up more frequent updates Now we actually took a look at at some of the recent bfa q&a's Apparently they've had one bfa q&a per month for the past four or so months And then prior to that they were doing these similar dev water cooler updates And they were also doing one of those per month So, uh, is it possible that we get a couple more updates before blizzcon and then buy blizzcon a playable beta? Precedent says yes, it's possible. So who knows we're not entirely sure but I feel much better I feel like if I had to pick between june to november of 2019, I would lean more towards the june side so far I'm uh, I'm gonna say so I reckon 100 well I'm gonna say 70 percent sure there's gonna be some sort of playable experience for classic wow at blizzcon Right, this is I think that's a cool. I think it'd be great right and I think this time next year june 2019 We will all be streaming the classic beta That would be nice. There'll be one year from now. You think we will be I think so I really do I I honestly like I could see potentially from blizzcon this year There's it's going to be a lot about classic It's going to be a lot about eight one eight two for blout for azeroth But I think they will talk about classic as well because like judging from this you can see the reason They haven't said anything for months and months is because they didn't know what they would do Right, not to say not say they don't know what they're doing But I mean, you know, they were trying to figure out the best way to tackle it Okay, now they know and it's gonna be you know, they are just gonna work and work and work They know exactly the path they're taking to get this to work And um, that's what's really good. Honestly, because last like a couple months You know, you read some of the things in here where they say like We uh, I think I found a quote which said like they were doing it for weeks And stuff like they had like after weeks of rnd like weeks like they've been hard at work And um, it's yeah, they're now on the right path I honestly would love to see a classic q&a coming out of this Because there are so many questions that people have Um, yeah, and blizzard if you're watching please Classic q&a soon. I need it. I need it so many questions Literally like it could go on for hours because people just yeah, it's just um It's they've given us this but now people are going to talk about this forever I think if they don't give us any more updates until blizzcon I think even down to like just before blizzcon people will still be talking about this dev water cooler Yeah, and I think uh Having something Eight months right eight months after the initial announcement finally getting something new It's it's very relieving. It's something a lot of people have been complaining about for some time now But finally relieving that we got something and it opens the door like you said to to get a lot more news Like what like both you guys said To to get more news going forward. Maybe to start getting some some q&a's I think we could start getting some q&a's after the bfa launch Uh, I really think after bfa launches, they're going to be hard on uh on advertising classic They're going to be real hard on advertising classic and uh going into that so much more Going into uh going into class or sorry going to I almost call it class gone myself Going into blizzcon I think that uh if they got some sort of alpha or something available to play on the floor Like you said would be awesome I think it might be even sooner than june before uh Before they start dishing out some alpha keys and beta keys if that's the case I think I mean I I think I think just after blizzcon. Honestly, there'll be an alpha I think we're playing I think They'll either be some sort of like closed alpha where they're showing footage like blizzard officially by the end of this year For the end of this year. I think we will see some sort of gameplay of classic wow And uh, yeah from like the sounds of how they're doing right now. Like as I said, they've they've probably got some sort of playable Ish demo like some like completely ripped out version of the bfa client working right now So, you know, they could honestly put out a tease of like a dwarf running around the like courage valley And I would just freak out. I'll be like, this is it Yeah, yeah, there's There's what two months till bfa is out five months till blizzcon. I I don't think we'll have I don't think we'll have an alpha or beta until blizzcon five months from now I think it's probably maybe realistic that we could be playing that Yeah, I was gonna say I I think a beta could be as soon as january of next year Like at the beginning of the beta, um I think alpha though the the way I think they said this is yeah Alpha beta interchange I use those terms interchangeably, but like some kind of playable version for the public. Yeah Yeah, because they said would bfa like, uh, I think the way they're gonna do alpha's beta is now Alphas are going to be essentially a Kind of broken version of the game without all the features and throughout the alpha cycle They're going to add the features in which is what they did with bfa as soon as all the features were in They turn to beta because beta is polishing and making sure everything's working But yeah, I think you know with alpha they'll have this like the first version of alpha classic is going to be this most scuffed Crazy version you'll ever see and they'll be missing assets and all sorts of Craziness and then I think throughout the cycle when they get to a point where they're like, okay, everything's in now Let's go to beta and like open this up for like thousands more people So that's basically what they've done with the bfa alpha and beta and I think that's gone really well for them So I think they're gonna look at that and go, okay, that's a good way to do it. We'll do that with classic Especially with a game like what a warcraft is so difficult to test because there is so much to it Like it's not like a platform or or something where there's only like You know a couple thousand different scenarios with with with mmo's millions. There's millions of things you can do And they got to get people to do everything Yeah, so this is something we haven't we haven't quite touched on yet But 1.12 patch is what they've decided is going to be the base Of of what they're basing the entire thing off of that's they say that that's the most complete version of vanilla Uh, that's probably what people are the most familiar with whenever they think of vanilla. Wow, whatever think classic. Wow Actually, mr. GM, let's start with you. How do you feel about the uh, how do you feel about going with 1.12? Uh, it depends how much of 1.12 they use Okay, I guess classes and stuff were at a point where they Zoom and believe would be at their best point. I I I guess because they're at the end of vanilla They're like, hey, this is how to be Content-wise I would not want a launch with next that would just be my foolish thing they could ever do Um, I guess talents as well were pretty much like up to spec You know with uh with the fun like whatever however long, you know, people have been playing undocumented servers They've always had that, you know, people have played with these talents people played with these This um the way that the classes were balanced. I think honestly From that point of view, I think a lot of people are going to be happy that they like if they are good On current servers doing um like playing a rogue. They'll be good on classic wow, right? Because you know 1.1 a class could be rubbish and then by 1.12 it could be a lot better And it would be a weird way to play where you could be like you if it did start 1.1 And you were like, I don't want to play this class now because they're crap But I'm going to start playing it when like patch one six comes out, you know, just wouldn't it would just be weird It would be a really strange scenario for classes to have that kind of foresight But yeah, I don't know. I I think it's okay. Honestly, it just depends what kind of PvE and PvP content There's a massive discussion with battlegrounds in the honor system and that that's like You could talk about that for hours if they're going to do anything with that Yeah, that's the kind of stuff. I think that they should uh Those are the kind of things that I think they want to address in the beta personally I think that's stuff that they need to go through and uh Like how does having like the the honor system in from the start affect the game How does having battlegrounds in from the start affect the game? If you have battlegrounds, if you have the honor system, can you get honor rewards from the beginning? There's there's so many different questions to ask there and and I think I think the beta is going to be big time on that Uh, we'll we'll probably get into the beta a little bit more like on on a later episode Um, but it is it is interesting that it's already starting to come up Uh tips, what do you think about the 1.12? I mean, I think the conversation about classic just started I think everything else prior to june 15th. It was all white noise. It was all a relevant speculation Speculation now we finally have our framework and we understand how we can actually like build this game Um, I made a video a couple months back called the ideal franken patch And I kind of broke down what I personally would like to see or at least what I thought we would probably see And I still lean towards that direction I think ultimately they'll take patch 112 with all of the class balancing with all of the quests and quest hubs That were introduced periodically throughout vanilla. They'll take all of the flight paths. They'll probably take the upgraded mount system um, and they'll The only thing that they're probably thinking about staggering right now Is the content itself the raids themselves There is no scenario in my mind where I see blizzard say, oh, let's release nacks at launch The game would be dead on arrival. So I don't think they'll do that But everything else. I mean another really big one for me is itemization that probably needs to be progressive I think blizzard really needs to understand that that is a very very big deal in vanilla So many items got changed to make content so much easier. I really hope they go progressive with the itemization um, there are a lot of things that that um That we really have to sit down and talk about I mean mr. GM mentioned battlegrounds And I think they actually use the battlegrounds example in the dev water cooler update And it made it seem like they actually want to release battlegrounds at the start, which I'm not sure is the best idea I feel like now is the opportunity for all of us in the community to kind of open up those patch notes And think to ourselves. Okay, this feature should it come at the start? Should it come when it did or should it come at the very end? We don't really know and I think Now is the time to start talking about it Yeah, yeah, I think I think one of the biggest arguments for the battlegrounds thing is your Like I don't know how much should the percent of classic players only play classic for pvp You know, you're completely singling out those people if you don't have an honor system of battlegrounds at launch. That's Probably a question they're asking themselves Um, and I don't know how that particular audience will feel about that. I don't know You know, I used to do casual pvp and In vanilla, but I mean hardcore pvp is how do you think they'll feel about it? I guess Yeah, I want to go into that a little bit because I just because I have some experience with you know Just talking to other friends and stuff who guys who were like gen one rankers and whatnot Actually stay safe. I two things will stay safe stay safe. You were ranking gen one in the past and Also, I know that you were a big 1.1 guy Initially, I know you said you would send the pass that it's not like a deal breaker anything if it's 1.12 But you would like to see 1.1. You thought it would be cool to see 1.1 Even though like you thought 1.12 was just fine, too I had sort of like a selfish desire. I wanted 1.1 I wanted to relive vanilla well as it was with all the weird changes and quirks and and rebalancing and Adding quests and re-itemizing. I wanted it how it was back in the day Now though that was like my selfish desire. I understand that that probably wasn't best That that wouldn't have been best for For classic while it would have been very hard developmentally for blizzard to pull that off very very hard for them You would have had people It would have had the players, you know every couple weeks downloading new patches or something like that to update the It would have been ridiculous Because you would have been running it off of several different patches It would have been very I think it would have been a big turn off to new players that hadn't played They don't have any experience at all with classic or vanilla. It would have been like a lot to wrap your head around Because it it doesn't have like that Go into that cycle. It doesn't have like that blizzard modern polish, you know Whereas running off of one static patch does or it would But that's what I wanted. Yeah, but you're right. It's not it wasn't a deal breaker for me I think this is probably what's best for classical. I was running off of patch 1.12 I feel like the discussion right now is No longer what's going are we going to have dungeon finder or raid finder or transmog or I mean they explicitly say no explicitly said it no transmog And other things that effectively didn't Weren't in the original game did it will not exist So I feel like I can kind of rest easy about that now and I feel like we we like we can move the discussion past that and talk about We can talk about like They're their release timeline. Will there be re-itemization? Will there be What rates will be out on release? Will there be an honor system? Will there be battlegrounds? Stuff like that. That's that's where I feel like the discussion is at right now They completely they completely glossed over that Probably to instigate a discussion like we're having right now Yeah, yeah, I agree. I think I think talking is is good. I mean discussion is good It's it's good to get together and talk about these things and throw things around and I think it allows the You know not not that we speak for the entire community or anything at all, but I think it's good for For blizzard to see that too that that people are discussing it that there's hype behind it You know that I like massive mass just like a big just shot in the arm for For for classic hype whenever they announce this thing. I mean this one page article and it everybody was freaking turned on their heads about it you know um I think that uh Sorry, voice crack. I think that uh Going going back to what mr. GM said about the rankers about people who who want to play classic to exclusively pvp That's like their main focus the I have a lot of friends who who are hardcore pvpers uh Some of them have said, you know just kind of casual conversation We're talking about it. We're discussing it They've said that they're worried that if they don't put the honor system in from the start that there's not Going to be enough to do And vanilla wow now these are the guys who are playing like 16 hours a day These are the guys getting like two million honor a week to to try and get grand marshal as fast as possible in the first three months of a server launch or something Yeah, and there might not be enough for them to do but they are Probably less than one percent of the player base. I think if if a new player or a casual player opens up classic wow and they have to one Level to 60 level their professions find a guild make friends do dungeons. They have to get their pre-bus They've got to start rating if they're trying to start ranking on top of that Like I think there's actually a lot to do. I think there's there's a lot to do And I think it can be very overwhelming to have that honor system from the get-go Also, I think having that honor system in the game from the get-go Um, I mean by a month three and a half for month four You're going to have people that are ranked 14 having ranked 14 people in that very very good high-end gear very early on on the server It really trivializes a lot of the pve content by blacking layer by the time blacking layer is out But on month six or seven whenever it comes out You can have an entire raid roster of full of rank 14 dps right It really if you want the hardest experience that classic can offer You won't you won't have the honor system in from the get-go Yeah, I agree. Yeah, and honestly like at the end of the day Um as great as it is to have you know battlegrounds at launch and whatnot Wouldn't it be a lot more exciting to have like a couple of months of south shore versus terran mill A couple of months were like world pvp is the only pvp you can do Yeah, I think it'd be like it'd be really hype first of all and then second of all it would be even more hype When you finally know that battlegrounds are are coming It would be like an entire event the server would be like completely hyped on about And I think if we treated these patches more like events, I think I just think it would be more beneficial I think it would also synergize very well with a modern game where blizzard could be like, okay We're releasing a new patch for bfa and then a couple months later two months later They go, okay now releasing the battlegrounds for for classic for example And kind of you know create a symbiotic relationship between the two games So so and that kind of goes back to what I was saying where it's like you have two different markets But there might be there might be some overlap there and and those people who like both like they might like both, you know, that's fine That's that's on them. I think that You know like say they've said you're hitting such a small target audience If you're just focusing on those guys, you know those guys were playing like 16 hours a day it's the less than 1% more than likely and I do think the world pvp is going to be good I think if they do that the world pvp is going to be good you're going to get that authentic classic experience that authentic vanilla experience that people want to get and I think that's something to be very excited about. I like what you said about events Because a lot of stuff like this it is treated as an event right new patch comes out. It is an event. It is a big deal It is something to be excited about I think Going forward. Yeah only 16 hours. Yeah going going forward That's something that I think they should consider is like Whenever whenever there is something big that happens In any game, but let's say in vanilla. Wow, it's going to turn into an event and and you should accept it Is that and whether that's the player base whether that's blizzard whether that's whoever it is Uh, I think that's a big deal. I really like that Do you think um like with patch cycles and stuff like do you think they're just going to make up like Kind of like hybrid patches or like patches of release like say if they were going to do like a progressive pve Release like the first one. Do you think they'll be like, um, do you think they'll just go straight off the one Two patch notes or whatever it is or do you think they'll just kind of make it up as they go a lot? Like they'll follow the original formula But they wouldn't do like the exact patch if you know what I mean if that makes sense It's interesting that you bring that up. I mean obviously some patches in vanilla last that a lot longer than others And do they want to cut down the time between patches? Do they want to increase the time between other patches? I don't really know They're really going to pick and choose. I think the easiest thing would obviously to be go would obviously to go Be to go patch by patch like 1.4 Mysteries of mar or 1.2 mysteries of maradon or whatever and then so on and so forth Don't release maradon till it was released back in the day. Don't release dire malto's released back in the day But could I see a push for for blizzard thinking to themselves? Okay? Um maradon and dire malar dungeons and uh, maybe we want all of our dungeons and at launch They might do that. Although again, it does potentially trivialize raid content And at the end of the day, why would you create more work for yourself if blizzard? You already have a timeline that you've used back in the day. You know, it's successful Other servers use that timeline and it's successful Why mess around with something that's worked for so long and again will be less will be less work for you I mean, I I like the original timeline I really like the original timeline. Would you want zg zg alia? No, absolutely not. No way. No way No way. Yeah, I think you want to go into that Yeah, if if they're going to do a progressive timeline with content and itemization updates and stuff like that And I think they should I think it would be Stupid not to do that. Um, I think they should even though they're running off patch 1.12 Uh I actually just lost my trade of thought. Yeah, I think they should do that And I think that I think that they I think they should follow The actual vanilla release timeline like to to the week probably right and when mr. GM mentioned zg And what what what what would it mean if zg were to come out earlier? If zg came out earlier like Yeah, blacking layer and uh and molten corn and xt would all be trivialized Like there's a lot of really good. There's a lot of really good really good gear in there Spell power gear something like that spell hit all that stuff And I actually think the same thing with uh to a lesser extent, you know Like tip said, I mean, what if they want to release dire maul and mard on at the beginning? I think to a lesser extent dire maul Uh, it kind of has that same effect with the world buffs and now you're chasing parses and stuff like this Uh, I I love the original release schedule of you know, six months between Nax and the end whatever the end means Uh, no, I think I think all that stuff is great, man I I I really liked the way that it was originally done in vanilla. Wow And I think I think that they should keep it that way absolutely Do you think they'll use the exact same gaps? How long I think they should I think they should I think that would be an idea It was super quick though Like if you look at like like some of them like really quick if there's like a bar chart of like all the patch cycles And some of them it's so sporadic like some of them like kind of quick some of them are super long It's it's pretty crazy. Well, some some patches are bigger than others, right? So some some patches are they they have a bigger impact on the game than others like 1.2 was was mard on 1.3 was dire maul 1.4 was the honor system like there there's different things that happened at different times Also in 1.4 This is whenever they got rid of the tier 2 gear that was dropping in molten core, right? So whenever they go and they get rid of this tier 2 gear the people who got it got it already But they also took it out and then I believe it was re-itemized and I don't think it was re-itemized until it was reintroduced in 1.6, of course, you could still get the head and the legs Legs from rag and head from enixia but I think that You know the the reason that a lot of the patches were kind of sporadic like they might have a few patches coming out quick I believe I believe the the european release was on the 1.2 patch Yeah, is it not? Yeah, so so european release was on the well the 1.2 patch. So european players I don't think i didn't get the game a month late. Yeah I'm looking at this so one one came out on November 7th, 2004 One five with battlegrounds was june So that's what like Six months six months six months till bg's basically six and a half months till bg's from launch I think that's fine, man. I think that's awesome. Honestly like world pvp is great in vanilla Experiencing south shore versus tarenville. It's such an epic experience. Everyone's got to do it at least once And then having a period of time even when they release the bg's Not having the battle masters in the cities having to actually run to the portal and queue up from the portals and the northern barons and stuff like that I think that's super super important. It cultivates community It helps people get to know each other allows you to meet the people that are going into the queue with you Like I know all of those things got changed eventually But they do have some merits and they do have some novelty that I think every player at least deserves to experience on some level once or twice I think uh as well you go think of it like back then I assume I wasn't there that early, but Like they didn't really know what a battleground was like at least now they launched a one one Of well, there's a simulated one one, let's say and they got six months to prepare for something They know that's coming, you know back then they were like what the hell is this like, you know So they will have like time to obviously go out like level up Get like ready and kind of practice in the world with world pvp Because I'm sure world pvp will still exist even if there wasn't an honor system Because you know absolutely That's an interesting thing you bring up because of prior knowledge and people having played through this game for You know over a decade now you'll never actually be able to like recreate An actual timeline for example a really good example of this is you know back when molten core came out or when vanilla launcher came out with enix's layer in molten core When with classic wow, you're gonna have people that are capitalizing on literally every lockout possible like getting a full clear probably split runs as well Back in actual vanilla around 2004 2005 You had guilds progressing through molten core for months. You had guilds wiping on enixia for months because they didn't know what they were doing We're going to see people going into like the next tier of raids with the absolute best gear They can possibly have because they they already know the fights. They'll be able to like capitalize on every single lockout that they possibly can So yeah, it's going to be you'll never be able to recreate that that exact timeline So that brings up the question or the difficulty of the next raid that's coming out So do you alter the difficulty? Do you use bosses in previous states pre-nerved states? I mean, I know on on you know in certain servers, you know, you play against ragnaros That wasn't the ragnaros that was killed by death and taxes back in the day. That's the ragnaros and patch 112 You know, so it's like yeah It's like We don't even know which versions of the bosses we're going to get Maybe the bosses are a lot harder. We have no idea and if they are really easy Does blizzard say okay 10 buff across all boss hp armor resistance and health values well If the problem the problem is that well, it's not really a problem. It's just the reality It's whatever it is that people will have more lockouts worth of gear going into the next raid That's the that's the issue that we're going to have a classic one that people have seen on undocumented servers If you really want to try to fix it You don't buff bosses or buff raids you just speed up content release timelines, right? You try to bring it down. Let's say back in the day guilds had Six weeks worth of full blackling layer clears because they had to progress through blackling layer And uh, they didn't have full clears every week and they're wiping on, you know brood lore stuff like that If you really wanted to solve the issue you would just You'd only you you'd have eight weeks between bwl release and aq 40 release, right? To to do that to fix that problem. I don't really think it's I think it is what it is That's just the way it is. You can't you can't you know erase people's knowledge going into the game You know, that's just the reality of the situation. I agree. I just raised the question Like I think chinglish mentioned this in another Yeah, the classic cast the players have got better You know, he said it like back then he was clicking and like Keyboard turning and all sorts of net these days like people like the skill level in general Like your average noob is actually probably pretty damn good compared to like an old vanilla player Right like the the not only is the skill cap higher, but but the skill floor has also increased quite a bit, too um Yeah, I actually think that whenever you're talking about a 1.12 Base right with talents with skills all the other stuff that comes with 1.12 from from a class design standpoint I I don't think it's out of the question for them to look at Tuning the the earlier content to match the initial intended difficulty Um, I don't think that's something that that they should just do I don't think there's something they should just do at all But I do think that's something that whenever they get into the beta They're probably gonna have to look at whenever they get into the beta. They're probably gonna have to look at Okay, what are the kill times with as as is. What are the kill times whenever we okay? Let's let's add a little bit of health. Let's add a little bit of this. Let's add a little bit of that Um, yeah I don't know. I think that's stuff. They really got to look at very closely to not trivialize. Maybe they should test that Yeah, maybe they should because what you'd have to do is calculate, you know, okay This is our rates dps with 1.12 talents And this is our rates healing output with 1.12 talents and et cetera This the tps we have is as warrior tanks and stuff like this and then compare it You'd go in and retest it with 1.1 talents and compare the difference and see okay The boss time the boss kill times are 30 seconds fast with 1.12 So let's add, you know 30 seconds worth more of hp to the bosses. You like something like that I'm not totally against that actually I mean with uh with bfa they have like they're doing rate testing at the moment on the beta I think how it would work with classical would imagine in the beta and alpha and stuff You'll test the first rates they're releasing and then they'll have a ptr Which will have the next patches content for them to kind of test and stuff like that I think that's probably the best way they're gonna do it like, you know As you said, you just see like, you know, they'll try and kill it and see what the health is like And how they're doing and then they'll kind of scale it that way Um, do you think purists will be annoyed if they make changes like that? Absolutely, I think they would be yeah, like we're talking about it right now in a vacuum, right? We're just like spitballing here I think the biggest issue when it comes to altering like damage and health values Is all the sudden is molten core as hard as next ramus? And what I mean by that is all of a sudden you've made molten core Proportionately as difficult as it was back in the day That's a big problem because what if you have a situation where next ramus which you obviously wouldn't change at all Because it's two and four, you know one 12 basically Next ramus could potentially be easier than molten core because The damage is directly proportional in both instances. I'm not saying exactly easier, but I think you get what I'm trying to say I think I never try to say yeah There's less continuity and progression with the raids all the raids will feel like very similar difficulty wise And I'm not sure that's the best thing to do and like you do have to you Do have to consider the fact that while like us maybe here and a lot of people in the chat You guys are going to be clearing molten core really really fast Even though the average gamer has improved. I still don't think more than you know 20% of the players are going to hit level 60 within the first six months They're still going to be people wiping on deadlines a year into classic There's still good. Yeah, just there there's some people that just even though they're really good Maybe even like very good at the modern game today They haven't been exposed to how the game worked back in the day And the requirements and and just different things like thread and so on All that stuff requires kind of a different skill set And I think a lot of people are still going to have issues with that And subsequently still not perform very well in raids and clear content as fast as we think so maybe We don't need to buff things. I don't know. We're just spitballing back and forth here Yeah I want to kind of real quick bring up changes and their implications because we were talking we were kind of It's on topic right now. Okay, run running classic well off of patch 1.12. That's technically a change That's not how like and and progression through molten core on 1.12 with 1.12 talents. That's a change that that is not in line with no changes Right, that's not how molten core was originally progressed through so We've already sort of deviated from the no changes thing. So talking about rebalancing boss hp like That's an implication of running off of 1.12, which is a change already, right? Right every change you can possibly make there are implications and this is one of them another one another big one that we have to talk about and we've talked about this in the past is um If you know back in the day the server caps were 3 000 if we have 8 000 cap servers with classic well Do we have dynamic respawns? Like how do you deal with that? Do you have dynamic herb respawns and or node respawns? With every change that you can possibly make there are implications and things you'll have to do to accommodate that first initial change It's like what's it called the butterfly effect almost? Yeah slippery slide for me like I To me it's like what's your definition of no changes and for me It's like anything between 1.1 to 1.12 Is that that would be vanilla? Wow to me right as long as it's got a one in there that to me that's that's vanilla Wow, that's no changes however All right, however, uh, whenever it comes to And I've mentioned this for a while now if they decide to do 1.12 instead of a true progressive, which they have I do think that opens the door right that opens the door for Them probably looking at tuning the early content like what I was saying and while I would still consider the 1.12 thing to be no changes It's like you you might have to make adjustments to accommodate for the situation That's a rough one. That's a that's a real rough one Like what do you want to do? Do you want to do want to go? No changes off a principle or do you want to try and just kind of like okay? We got it. This is here. So we got to match this and do It ends up being kind of a rough thing A rough thing to decide that's what I'm kind of saying because you say or saying you go No change is off a principle, but like progressing through molten core with 1.12 talents is already a change I feel like I almost feel like an accommodation needs to be made right to keep the content at it at the level of difficulty it was When when rating with 1.12 or sorry with 1.1 talents, you know what I mean I see what you're saying. I mean personally I definitely fall in the camp of anything that happened from 1.1 to 1 12 No matter where we started. I personally don't consider that that a change But I think definitely like you know I think we have to be very careful of allowing anything else like now that we've just had this conversation I think it's abundantly clear they should not mess with the damage values or health values Like it's already opened up a can of worms and we've only been discussing it for like 15 minutes Like when in doubt stick to principle keep it no changes Yes, you could technically call you know 1.12 at launch a change or an adjustment Whatever you want to call it But at the same time I feel like if we define the scope of changes to that and we restrict it just to that one I think it's it's much better. I just Already like what we're talking and it just sounds like things are devolving into into pandora's box so and and and that's that's the thing but it's like Like for real like I think Again, I think it's something that they're that they should test I honestly think that it's something that they should test absolutely like from from a one to know Right one to know and and too. I mean that's that's their job as a company like they're going to end up doing it I would think not that they're going to end up like Changing the values or anything like that, but it's like what do you want? Do you want the real vanilla experience or do you want the private server experience? Right? That's the question. I think a lot of people got to ask themselves Um, yeah, and I think I'm testing it and having these conversations is really important Just like talking about okay, if they do this, how does this affect this stuff like that? That's a really important conversation and I think they should test it. It's being more pragmatic about it They could put any old number on there. You wouldn't know that it wasn't the original vanilla number You know potentially private servers weren't correct or aren't correct with their health values and stuff Exactly. Yeah, so we don't even know that's that's the big thing Well, and that's something that we've talked about too in the past like for for example a lot of the A lot of the values like you might plan a private server and you might go and you might do the raid content and this and that and while A lot of that stuff is like, okay Well, we have the data on this like we know how this works or not that works But there's so much guess and check work that goes into doing a private server that And it's it's been so long and it's been so many years that it's so hard to say like what is actually Right or wrong like what what is that like how was it actually? And uh that goes back again to what I was saying like that's why I think it's important to test this So you can know like I I think it would be really important for them to go into the beta and just test it Put it out there just so you know, right Yeah I think it's gonna be uh, it's gonna be a Or are you muted? No Okay So I just saw like screen flickering for a second that might have been on my end But I just think it's gonna be a very discussion heavy next couple of months Yes, so if you guys have an opinion one way or the other like now is the time to hit the forums to battle net Classic while subreddit now is the time to vocalize because honestly This will determine what game we get. I think at the end of the day Yeah, um, I think with that. Is there anything specific you guys want to want to touch on before we go into a little bit of q&a Uh, just wanted to mention as I said earlier like with you guys People in the chat if you ever get the opportunity to If you do play legion at the moment If you do there's a pvp brawl called south shore versus taro mill And if you go into that you can actually see kind of like a How what what it would be like because what they've done with that They've literally ported the tarot the old hills brand map into legion and you've got the old map You've got the old models. You've got all the old textures and stuff So Give that a go if it becomes the pvp brawl of the week or however it works I don't really know But yeah, have a look at that and just kind of imagine yourself in that vanilla experience because that's What they've done and it's really cool. I actually didn't even realize but it's uh It's really fun and it's actually yeah, it is a really good pvp brawl But it is weird to see like the old Um, the old map and stuff like that with the new textures. It just looks like the game. Yeah. Yeah Yeah Um Say anything else from you guys Before we go to the q&a. I'm eager for the q&a. I think this will be fun. This will be a good time Okay, I want to go ahead and I'm going to hit twitter first, right? So again, you can tweet at us and uh, just just hit us with a hashtag class cast. That's what I'm looking at Um First one is from fishy and actually fishy fishy brought this up a while back to Uh, I think this is a great question Will the use of the new client affect the game's in-game lighting engine? Or is that something that they'll be able to reuse from vanilla? Uh, this is from fishy. Oh, that's a really good question. I think it's a really good question I think that's a hard one to answer for me personally Uh, I can tell you what I want Uh, I don't want the new lighting like I understand like, you know, they they do this and they make it look Nice or whatever. Uh, I I think the lighting will take away some of the feel Especially if they have the old graphics in Um, which I'm again highly assuming that they're they're they're not going to mess with the graphics or anything at this point either um but uh But yeah, no, I uh, I do not want to see that and hopefully they don't do that with the uh, with the old graphics That's that's what I would see You guys I think that's quite hard though. That's super That's like really I would imagine from a technical point like that's pretty difficult to do. Yeah Um, yeah, damn. I didn't know not even think about that That's yeah, I don't know and it's just knowing that they're down porting, right? That's that's why he brings up this question is uh, again, that's something that I would I would like to not see personally, but um But yeah, I think I think that is a really good question. I think it's a good, uh Uh, I think it's something that's something that I would like to find out I would I would like to hear hear what they would they plan on doing with that Yeah, I mean the late the old lighting might still be in the game files. We we just don't really know um, but yeah, then wow interesting yeah Yeah, I would I can't answer it of course, um, but I would prefer not I prefer not just keep it how it was. It's a great game how it was I'm the same way with this stuff. You have to ask like why would they do that? Yes Why would they do it who who are they trying to appeal to are there people out there? That are thinking okay, I'm thinking about playing classic. Wow, but I'm not going to play unless they have new lighting if there's like Who are they really trying to sell this to like like it's just kind of a weird thing, you know Here's the thing. I think what fishy is trying to say is is not so much who they're trying to sell it to It's what if that is a consequence of them downgrading the game from the modern infrastructure? So it's like I don't think they're going to be actively trying to implement the new lighting But what happens, you know, is there some kind of technical restriction where they can't downport the game? Without keeping the lighting as as it is now in the modern game I've got no freak included beyond as fishy and I answer the same as stay safe I don't know, but I'd rather it be what it was. So yeah, yeah, exactly I wish I wish I knew more. I wish I knew more, but I just think that's such a great question I just want to throw that out there because I think that's a that's a good point to bring up um I'm got this from a few people Actually, I want to I want to go through twitter just because these people asked a while back I'm not going to go through all the all the tweets, but I want to I want to hit a few of them Just because there was a number of them. I see some good ones here. Yeah There was from uh, well from a few people they were talking about the The add-ons if basically if it's going to affect the api. I like that a few people were asking about the the Given that they're downporting the modern system. How do we think this is going to affect the api? Um These are going to use the same as legion. I think it will. I think there's a chance that it will as well They say mentioned before with the old api. There was like all crazy stuff you could do with it I'm sure you can Tell you all about that There's a bunch of weird quirky things that you wouldn't want in classical that you can do with the vanilla add-on api Absolutely. I this is a change. I actually do want and I have no problem of admitting this I hope they have legion add-on api for classic well. I hope they do yeah Is uh, they'll be restricted though. You wouldn't be able to do everything you can do in legion Obviously like bring up, you know achievements tab and stuff like that, you know, right? Of course, of course. Yeah Yeah I mean by api we mean we mean the capacity to which you can do things with add-ons I want them to restrict in vanilla. Wow. It's very very open. You can do a lot of Weird suspect things with vanilla while our scripting Yeah, and they've closed a lot of those doors over the years. I want them to restrict it down Maybe they make a new one like for add-on developers Yeah, every expansion they adjust it anyway. So to be honest, they'll probably just make a custom one and be like guys I know you've been making these awesome add-ons for one point one point uh one twelve, but unfortunately They ain't got to work anymore. Yeah Yeah, it makes them new ones I think uh, I like personally I would like them to keep the old one just because like that's just It is what it is, you know, that's that's vanilla to me Uh, but you're right There are a lot of crazy things that you can do like the scripting is very very powerful Um, I don't think they should get rid of add-ons. I don't I mean that's the add-ons were in from I mean, they've been in vanilla, you know, they've been there. They were there back in the day. They're there now Um, but I I basically I think if they keep everything from that perspective just the same as it was I'd be really really happy with that. Uh, but given that they are down porting the game I think uh, I think it is likely I think I think there's a chance that they keep the same api unless they they Are able to pull something off, right? What do you what do you think tips if you have anything on that? honestly I would not like I mean it's I know it's inevitable, but Ideally I would not like to see add-ons more sophisticated than what existed back in vanilla, although I know that's not going to be the case But at the same time like obviously if there's an exploit if there's some kind of, you know, clearly broken Or like almost like a cheat that's being used through, you know add-ons or through certain macros Then obviously blizzard has to address it like at the end of the day an exploit to an exploit If classic wow launches and we discover a new exploit that no one's ever discovered before on previous patch 121 clients Then blizzard should should fix it. Obviously a bug is a bug a cheat is a cheat. They should never exist in the game Um, but yeah, that's so you're talking about exploit versus bug versus oversight and design essentially one of you start talking about that Yeah, well, I yeah like if if somebody makes a mac like an add-on if somebody makes an add-on That kind of ties into a macro, but it tells you like I don't know. I can't think of an example But something that really trivializes part of the game that was never intended to ever be like that I think blizzard should be like, okay, like the recursive thing. They should break it or something like that Yeah, well, I mean they they did break recursive. I can't remember what patch. I think it was 1.7 but they they it was around that time where they broke the cursive and They've they've managed to fix it again. They've managed to figure out a way to make it work again Yeah, I mean that's just it kind of goes back to what staysav is saying It's like it's it's very open-ended and it allows you to do a lot now whenever I think of like a robust Basically the the ability to make add-ons that might take away from the game experience that exist in legion right now Exists in the retail version of the game right now that didn't exist in classic. I I personally can't think of anything that Nothing comes to mind, but I'm also not some I'm not a retail add-on expert honestly, right? But can you guys think of anything that comes to mind because I I can't OQ if oq comes to vanilla, I'll be really upset. I'm not gonna lie. What is oq? It was it's like the pre-made group finder tool today if it comes to vanilla If you're able to group up with somebody without communicating without having to be in a guild, you know And literally leave and never have to meet that person ever again. I don't know it rubs me the wrong way I don't like that idea gear score two But if you ask me to pick between the two, I think oq is worse than gear score Well, well gear score gear score would be a noob trap, right? I mean it's it's not or it wasn't whenever it came out because of how optimized the game had become But in vanilla wow gear score would be an absolute noob trap. I mean there's items that are like You know, you might be wearing like item level 60 something gear and item level 80 something gear together And that item level 60 thing is is one of your best in slot pieces You know, yeah Like on use or proc effects or itemization is so funky and vanilla wow that gear score It would be very very hard to do that. Yeah Well from what I've heard what you could do is you could take your stats like you actually like crit stat Like you're what's your crit what's your head etc And then take that value and transfer it to an actual numerical score value This this can't happen the original vanilla. There's no add-on for it in original vanilla But I've heard you can do this today with modern add-ons. So yes, you know while having a you know The raw item value might be irrelevant It might take the stats of your character and weigh them and be like, okay Your score is this because you've got this amount of crit this amount of hit this amount of defense cap Whatever, you know what I mean, right? But I think something like that is I mean that that's something as as simple as like taking your stats and just like okay Well, I know like stat prioritization like crit is really important strength is really important. This is important and then Basically going through that and and almost like just theory crafting. It's basically a calculator to me at that point like You know, I don't like I mean, of course like well It's you don't want to be trivialized down to like a score down to a number But uh to me that that is something that's just like that's uh I mean that's just theory crafting to me like it's like a calculator and uh as far as the oq stuff I remember there being add-ons and even in burning crusade. They just put it in the game They put like the the group finder in the game where you could go and you could queue up and you could list yourself as lfg for whatever Yeah, nobody used it right? Nobody used it and maybe they could make an add-on that's better than that but uh Oq is everywhere when oq came and mop everyone was using it was much better So, I don't know. I mean, yeah, and I didn't and like I said, like I didn't play mop or You know for me like what I'm what I'm trying to say is like I I think that people might not even use it Uh as a uh in vanilla. I don't know like just from from burning crusade. It might be different now I mean, it's only as good as how many people use it though, isn't it? Yeah So like if nobody has it then like everyone's like, okay Like I can't find a group because not as many people have it But everybody's in trade chat or maybe even like if somebody makes a custom world channel or something, right? Yeah, I mean they I would actually be I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't a world channel They're so common now like every single time. It's there's some sort of world channel. Yeah, it's always full of such lovely people Yeah So that's uh, it's special. It's very special. Uh, let me see if there's uh, I'm gonna do one one more Twitter check real quick, uh Because there's a lot of questions now, uh, let me just pick one out Uh, let's see Um, okay um This is from uh, jacob peterson, right? Oh, no, that's the wrong one. Sorry. I misread it. Uh, this one's from flumstone on the talk Or jacob. Yeah, sorry. No, this was this is from earlier. That was from earlier Flumstone on the topic of post-rate content What do you what do you guys think about the raid difficulty additions like heroic and mythic? Under the notion that there's no increase in power level of gear that drops I think this is the reason I want to answer this question is because it can kind of clarify a lot of stuff For people who might not be familiar Uh, the raids are just more difficult to simulate than or to stimulate a challenge Well, the raids are just more difficult difficult to stimulate a challenge. So so what this question is asking is Uh, what about like heroic and mythic and this kind of stuff in classic and really I want to I want us to hit on this But but with no additional rewards, right? Well, he's saying he's saying under the notion that there's no increase in power level of gear that drops Right, right. Okay. Just do it for the thrill. So it's just for the bragging rights or the thrill, right? I think uh, I think stuff like that should not even be a thing in the game personally Um I that's just, you know, my personal opinion I think, you know, just going off of like the keep it as much vanilla as it possibly can as much no changes that you possibly can I don't think that's something that is particularly good for the game I don't think it's healthy if you add that and then you want to add rewards for it Then that's a whole another issue. That's I think that's unhealthy for the game. That's a lot of what we're seeing now Um, I don't know. Do you guys want to do you guys want to hit on this? Dude, I think that content difficulty is one of the things that destroy the wow So I would absolutely not like to see that in the game. No fans. No, I agree. I agree. I agree. Yeah Um, and that yeah, that's not that's not a knock on on on you. I just uh Yeah, I I thought not you I'm talking about the question. But yeah Whoever asked yeah, but I don't I don't want to uh, I thought that was good to just kind of like clarify like a stance on it, I guess Yeah, um, let's let's hit uh, let's hit some questions in the chat Will they fix weapon skill? Actually here you guys pick up Oh, let's let's see this. I did see the weapon skill one. He keeps spamming it. Yeah. Yes. Yes, they will Yeah, I mean anything anything that's not right on a private server or whatever I'm I mean, I feel like it's very safe to assume that that that would be fixed, right? Yeah, you'd like to all of these mathematical values or resistance values armor values boss damage values all of these things You you have to imagine blizzard has all of these things logged Was it has the accurate values for everything? I can't imagine they're gonna have like I don't think they're just gonna like pull Pull values out of the out of thin air, you know when making classic where I think they probably have all this stuff I mean, they're they're they're a big time company. I mean they Uh, you know despite rumors They they have their stuff, you know, they they have the original code I mean, I you know, I I did computer science classes in college for a little bit Like I still have myself from like freshman year, you know before I realized I wasn't smart enough So I'm just gonna play video games So, yeah, I mean that's like people keep their stuff. They they for the most part they will we'll have a lot of their stuff I would think any any big company like that would Do one of you guys want to pick out a question something you like to see I like this one from jace 3 3 3 Okay, uh in terms of faction shared loot for shaman and paladin Do you guys think locking these tiers specifically for their intended factions would be detrimental to the game in any way? Well, that's something that they did do That that's something that was done in vanilla and then it changed in the 2.0 patch. I believe it was Uh, was it the 2.0 patch because I remember raiding mc at times and starting to get shaman gear drop And but it wasn't I think it was in the 2.0 patch which dropped I think in the beginning of december about a month and a half or so Maybe maybe five weeks before bc launched Uh, but this was something that initially or initially initially Was locked to the factions from what I remember I I may be wrong about that, but I I do remember not getting shaman loot in in raids until uh until after the 2.0 patch shaman tier Yeah, I do. I can't remember that far back Yeah, not personally sure does that happen on uh, does that happen on private servers? No, it doesn't Oh I could be wrong, but that's that's what I remember. I I never remember getting it, but I wasn't like a master leader I was just like a typical raider But I remember people complaining about it a lot after uh after the 2.0 patch hit Yeah, because 2.0 would have brought in all the systems of cbc without the tvc Yeah Coach Collie did This is a perfect question. I mean, what do you think will happen after classic vanilla? Do you think there will be a classic tbc classic wrath? That's a very big discussion to have I think with the inevitable success of vanilla if it does as well as we all hope it will be I think two years down the line the blizzards got to look at themselves and be like, you know what? We should probably do tbc like I just I don't see a scenario where they go damn it. We're making so much money We wish we could release tbc, but we're not going to I just don't see that happening Yeah, I hope that every two years they offer a new classic, you know, whatever the next expansion is And I think that they also continue to host, you know, when when classic tbc happens I think it probably will that they that they re-offer another classic vanilla option Yeah, the uh, there's one from maxitol That says, uh, how much will you miss the international field? Now that classic wow will be time zone pacific They haven't actually said that it is going to be time zone specific We did talk about this before the stream and I would love it If it was international, like if they found a way to kind of like Pinpoint where you are roughly and just put you on that kind of Server like latency. I don't know. I'm sure there's a way to do it But like, yeah, I would love it because you know, there's so many like established guilds and friends Like so many friends out there that are international and when classic comes out they're gonna have to like Play different places. You know, I'm actually going to play on the us server because I am I have no iRL friends who play wow and uh, so yeah, I'm going to be on the us servers I'm going to put up with latency, but yeah, I I would love it if they had international realms even if they had like Like if there was like a choice if you could be like international realm eu or us Because it would be cool, but yeah, I mean, I don't think it's going to happen. Unfortunately I think uh, I think that's something that just from like a almost like a quality control standpoint that they would Go and they would set servers up in regions If for this specific case they had like one or a very small subset of servers set as like international servers and they were put like Uh, I don't know maybe in new york or something, you know somewhere where you know close to europe I think that would be something that is uh That that'd be something that would be cool I think that would be something that would be cool because there's so many friends, dude That's the biggest thing i'm going to miss like i've made so many friends Uh, you know, either they're they're playing in asia. They're playing in europe Um playing all over the world and uh, that's that's one of the big things that the classic community kind of has and and it's uh It's developed into over the years. It's an international community Uh, you know, some of the best friends i've made, you know, uh, like those you guys used to watch my old streams Like you guys remember spoogee, you know, uh, you know, he'd be playing on european servers more than likely So it's stuff like that where it's uh, it's kind of rough It's it's it's kind of frustrating, but I mean, that's just like, uh, it might just be like a fact life You know what I mean? Yeah, I had read a while if they were really your friends. They would play na They wouldn't move It's not that bad actually, uh, when I was like playing on a european account from the us I was only getting like 120 ish ping which in vanilla is not that bad at all Like you can deal with 120 ping in vanilla But but unfortunately, um, i'm not entirely sure about this, but I remember reading a post a while back The reason they split up the regions beyond like the technical problems with it But I think there's actually like some licensing laws and localized like localization laws Where like some regions need to have the game look and appear a certain way Or some regions just have certain laws about like how you can distribute games and stuff like that So that's one of the reasons why if you play in the us for example And then you move to europe and you want to change your account to a new european account You can't do that. There's like some legality there. It's crazy. I didn't know that Yeah, so it's I don't know the full details, but I remember reading like a forum post about it a while back Yeah, I think uh Well something something else about like the 120 ping and I've told the story several times before but I specifically remember that 200 was the cutoff for green latency at the beginning of vanilla And they ninja changed it right people were having so many issues with freaking latency People complaining about lag that blizzard ninja changed the uh the cutoff for green latency from 200 to 300 And it wasn't in the patch notes. It wasn't anything But I remember I always had yellow latency because I would be hovering around like 220 250 or whatever and I was like Oh, man, I'm not lagging at all. This is good. And I scrolled over and I was like, what the crap? It's the same number. So I do think it's something to to consider like you don't need quite as good of ping You know back in the day like people were playing with like 200 ping and it was fine But uh, I think from like a competitive like more pvp standpoint as opposed to pve It kind of depends on what you're doing that latency does does uh come into effect. I think that does play a factor It's gonna be a sad day Yeah, somebody's asking about a black arrow asks Do you guys think we will have the legendary neck piece from mc? I assume he means drop for just like one guild No, just let it let it have one person have it. I think that'd be cool. That'd be cool. That's like that's a cool flavor thing I don't I don't know or think they'll I don't I don't know if they'll do that I don't think they'll do that But if they did I think that would just be something cool like just paying homage to the uh to the necklace talisman of the Binding Shard is what he's talking about Blizzard's usually pretty good about easter eggs like that. Who knows if they'll do it. They might not even announce it Yeah, they might just put it in the game. Yeah If I would bet on a company to do it, I would bet on blizzard, but I'm not sure if they'll do it Yeah, that would be really cool Yeah, for sure Yeah, let's look through this What do you think about race distribution people playing certain races that are best in slot like dwarf priests Or best in race, whatever you want to call it Uh, that Just deal with it. I mean that's that's part of game knowledge people want to play what's best People just want to play what's best There's a certain demographic of people that want to perform very well If you want to do that then that's what you should do if you don't then being a casual guild or whatever That's just how it is. Just do whatever you want to do. Yeah, just have fun I mean do I know everyone not everyone wants to play a gnome, but they are the superior race, unfortunately That's true. So yeah, I mean, it's it's just like, you know, some people they they Fun means different things for different people and the thing that's really good about vanilla. Wow Something that's really good about classic. Wow is that fun meaning something different for you And another guy is totally fine because you can accomplish different things in the game And you can get a lot of fulfillment out of it Whether that's you're going and pushing speed clears you want to be server first of this raid You want to be whatever you want to get a 20 minute mc clear whatever you want to do like that's fun for some people Right for other people it's fun playing a rep palette on rids, right for other people It's it's fun to just go in pvp. You don't want to pve at all And I think that's great. That's great about vanilla. Wow. That's great about classic. Um Yeah, I don't think it's an issue. I don't consider that to be an issue I think that's just that that's just the fact of life and and that's the nature of it Yeah, it's like when people ask you like what class should I play it's like Play whatever the hell you want to play like yeah, yeah, I'm gonna dictate your fun I actually I get asked that question all the time. I actually have started getting people's fun. I just tell them play no more lock That's good. Just do whatever I tell you. Yeah, no more lock. Thanks for asking. I think her breaks for dps There is one thing I'm gonna say about it. Um, he's a dwarf priest. That's the example he used, right? Right So like one thing you have to understand is We we don't know yet how big the populations of the servers are going to be If we're in a scenario where blizzard decides to release 3000 Concurrent pop servers, which we don't know. They may they may not but if we're in that scenario I think people are going to be a lot less picky about what races are played Just because you're not going to have that many dwarf priests available for alliance on a particular server When you're on a server with 10 12,000 people You can be picky about certain things about certain classes certain specs certain races Because you have the luxury of having a pool of 12,000 players to pick from I'm just not sure that'll be the case of blizzard chooses a small server I'm not saying they should cap out at 3k, but if they cap it at 3k If they cap it at 5k, whatever it may be population is going to infect stuff like that a lot more than I also I also I really really believe this. I think what is common practice on private servers will not be common practice on classic wow You have to imagine the private server vanilla wow player demographic Those are hardcore super vanilla wow hyper addicts, right? They've taken the step to play in an illegal version of the game They've downloaded the client They're accepting that at any moment the game could be like the servers go to go down All of their time investment could be deleted. These are like hardcore vanilla Super tryhards, right when classic comes out, you're going to have a lot more casual You know just like pick up the game and play not really like not much beforehand knowledge There's I think classic wow will be a lot more kind of free for everything's going to be it's going to be just like A softer experience classic will be then then private servers Yeah, yeah, I think I think you're right about that Uh, there's a question I want to hit, uh, this kind of goes in line with what we're talking about with the beta a little bit earlier And and fellerin is asking about this He says uh blizzard says though they're using 1.12 We covered that uh, are we getting the pre 1.7 or post 1.7 debuff slots? Well, they they haven't said right they haven't said particularly Uh, I think with the way they seem to be approaching it With the way they seem to be approaching it Going with the 1.12 base. I wouldn't be surprised if they just went straight 16 debuff slots from the beginning But uh with that being said That's the kind of thing that Again, you go into the beta and you need to test the beta stuff Uh, I test the stuff in the beta. Excuse me. I think that's the kind of stuff They got to look at you know if if they have 16 if they have eight how how does the Um now they haven't said either way what they're doing But I think that it's there's like two sides of the coin right like if you want Uh, if you want 1.12 Okay, let's say you want eight debuff slots and you wanted to change at 16 and then Are these the same type of people that that want the honor system and the honor gear from the beginning, right? All that stuff is there's there's a number of Or there's a there's a few levels of depth to uh, every single decision that they're going to have to make in this regard Like how does this affect pvp? How does this affect pve? How does this affect raids? How does this affect five man's how does this affect how people are going to approach the game? How does this affect how people are going to acquire gear? Um, I think it's it's a very There's a lot of layers to it. And again, I think that's something that they're going to have to test and look at in the beta To decide what they want to do Yeah, I think um I mean from your you guys experience. What would you say would you say is that much easier? Like yes, yeah, it's it's a it's a very big mistake to Launch with 16 debuff slots in my opinion. That would make a lot of the early content easier. Yeah Well, that would be a big mistake in my mind. So I'm sure I could count that surely Well, well the the the here's the thing with So looking at your experience with the 16 debuff slots particularly for stay safe stay safe plays a warlock The reason why this is such a big deal for warlocks is because You have shadow priests now that become a very viable member of your raid because of the shadow debuff that they put on the target That makes all your warlocks do more damage Um You also got to consider so you have 16 debuff slots now at 1.7 patch, but prior to that you also had Your warriors in rank 14 gear I mean like the the meta so here's the thing the meta for raiding in Venom out at the high end You want to get a bunch of guys with rank 14 gear and rank 14 weapons You want to get a bunch like freaking get 12 warriors 12 fury warriors rank 14 gear rank 14 weapons If they go and get the pvp gear they don't have to compete for drops And then they can fill in the blanks with you know dft and whatever through there But they're going to have the bulk of their gear coming from pvp And i'm looking at like the 1.6 patch right this is the patch before the the 16 debuff slots I don't know like again, I think there's just a lot of different tiers to it There's a lot of different layers to it and I do think it will make I mean surely there's more debuffs You're going to do more damage to the boss bosses die faster Game is easier, right? It's that that part is very simple very straightforward But uh, if you're looking at it like that then It kind of goes back to the other discussion. Well, they're already adding 1.12 Right, they're already they're already starting off with 1.12 So are they going to go back and retune? It's it's all the same discussion Like the the beta is going to be so Incredibly important to test all this stuff and to actually look at the actual numbers and make an assessment Make a decision and to go forward with that That's what I think There was another one which I've seen a lot the From divine or I probably butchered that Opinions on adding content after After next I guess For me, I would I think it'd be cool. But if they did it on a different server Like you have your next you have your people doing that and then maybe on another server That's completely different throw in some kerosene throw in some hydro throw in some, you know cams of time or whatever But yeah, keep them separate if you're going to do something like do not piss off the people who you made this for originally That's basically what I think I think it would be cool though I would love to see it To like do the features that they kind of intended for vanilla but ended up pushing over to tbc But it would get pretty mad honestly It's just Sorry go ahead I was going to say it's like cost to benefit ratio if you have an option of releasing a game tbc To your audience and you know they're going to pay for it And it's only going to cost you one dollar to release that game hypothetically speaking Versus spending a hundred dollars on developing new content from the ground up testing it qaqc All that stuff What would you do if you were blizzard? Would you release the one that's going to cost you one dollar or the one that's going to cost you a hundred dollars? Personally, that's what I think they're that's how I think they're going to weigh it But I would love to see it as mr. GM said on a different server I'm just not sure if it's you know if it's worth it for blizzard. Well look at osrs Right so so old school runescape Old school runescape launch and this is this is probably going to happen with classic 2 anytime something is this hyped anything Anytime something is is this big of a deal? You're going to have this big burst this big surge at the beginning and then it's going to taper off It's going to drop right the big difference between osrs and classic wow is that classic wow has expansions And I also think that one of the one of the big things like classic tpc and classic wrath, etc Classic catta if you want classic wad, I know you guys are talking about that. Um, well the classic wad fans and chat So expansions and also I think I honestly think the biggest selling point of classic wow Is the community that's why people can replay vanilla wow so many times is every time you replay it You have different community interactions and it's like it's more of a player driven thing than the than a content driven thing Right old school runescape It's it's honestly a lot more single player. It really is I've never played runescape. I was just I was just calling on it Yeah, so I think I think that's a really good perspective and you play. I know you played a lot of old school Um, so you know a lot more than I did Um, no, you're very right old school runescape. It died within it Like it was very close to dying within two years of release It had huge hype and it got very close to dying and they had that they added new content Um, but you know in that two-year time frame You relaunch a new vanilla server or you uh, you you release classic ebc. That's what I want them to do I don't want I don't want any new vanilla custom content Like I hear the art this argument all like oh, why don't they add you know Like 40 man kerosene to vanilla wow because it was in like the files like they were going to do it anyway But they didn't and it wasn't there Yeah, so I don't want it Well, I so I'm a little bit more on the line of uh, the line of thing that mr. GM is I think if they if they decide they want to do something with that I do think it would be cool But I also think that it needs to be done on a on a different server like you you have the option to like character copy over and play there You have the option of staying 1.12 forever. You have the option to character copy over to tbc or you have an option to uh You have an option to Uh, re-roll fresh and and they do another set of fresh classic servers And like you said there's people who are going to play that forever It's people going to play that for years and years and years and years so There's there's a reason the fresh meme is as Memey as it is. Yeah, it's love fresh vanilla dude. People love fresh vanilla Yeah, that's because as you said, you know every time you play veneros and it's a different experience You know different community everything like that, you know, you it's kind of like I don't know. It's hard to explain every time. It's a different adventure. I guess would be a very easy way to put it Yeah, I agree counter all sorts of things. You can never predict what happens. That's what's good about it Yeah, and whether or not they they actually do something like that. I don't know I just think personally like I think it would be like something that would be cool to see Are they actually going to do that? I don't know I think tips is thinking about it more more practical and it's like is it worth it for them? Who knows, you know, I think Dave's would have a lot of fun with it though I think he got to think from their point of view Yeah, but they're not the ones making the calls The guys the guys checking the bank account Yeah, we make carousel I mean, yeah, they would have to hire a bunch of new team members as well because right now the people making classical out They don't have, you know, a graphic team or a sound team They're just like kind of going through databases and making sure this this content is integrated with new hardware and software They'd have to hire New actual game developers, you know, it would cost millions of dollars like millions of dollars What why would you do it as I think it would be cool? Well, actually I am with Esfan State and and Mr. GM on this I think it would be cool But why would you do it when you have TBC right there sitting in front of you? Right And especially when when I'm not sure that a patch 1.13 would be more preferable to TBC In fact, I think it'd be the other way around. I think people do want to play TBC again I know I would love to play TBC again. So Who knows? We'll see. I don't think they'll do it that way But we've gotten this question like he's been spamming it all day. I feel like we got to answer it Little bear TV What do you think about using a streamer report function for a griefing that allows streamers to use their video proof to show the person doing so And putting a three strike protocol essentially What do you guys think about streamer griefing? If you choose to play on a pvp server, you've made that decision. Yeah, I don't like that. You have to sleep in it As a streamer as a streamer. I want to be able to permanently ban at a whim at all times You can ban No, I do not like that. I do not like that. I think uh, I don't think it's I don't think it's right or fair to to give a You shouldn't modify the game for the streamers. I think that's inherently something that's probably not a good idea to do for your game Now if you're talking about like if you catch something crazy that's happening and you have video evidence of it Whether it's on stream or something Then uh, you know, you can report it and send the video as like Hey, like this somebody's like fly hacking or okay. I mean that's that's one thing, you know But that's that's not like a streamer specific thing to me Here you guys I don't run to the bathroom real quick and yeah, sure I think there can be extreme cases of griefing and camping that are not unique to streamers But the streamers will probably experience the most. So let's say you're a player and it will probably happen to me I'm a streamer. Let's say I'm in Strangle for unveil and this guy and his friend are camping me. They can't be, you know, 10 times I try to I try to res back release. They camp me Uh, I I spirit res at the graveyard to try to leave and they camp me at the graveyard Uh, and I I literally can't get away a log out. I come back 30 minutes later I get some food I come back a log back in and uh, I'm able to hearth and I go to uh, Arathi Highlands I level in Arathi how it's for five minutes and then they show up again They camp me for another hour and a half and they're graveyard spawning camping me and all in all this It's like they're on a mission to do that Um, such great viewing as well as watching stream At that point it's that's not that that can happen to anyone. That's not a streamer unique problem That can happen to anyone. I think that Would maybe qualify as player harassment Yeah, I mean the way I see it is this If you're a streamer you're streaming classic. Well, yeah, there's going to be consequences But there's also a lot of freaking perks, man Like if the first eye of sulfur if you're a big streamer If you're like an asmin or a soda or whatever the first eye of sulfuros goes to you You're going to wake up every morning log into the game. Oh, wow 20 gold in my mailbox. Thank you very much You know everything you get such preferential treatment dungeon group. Oh instant group raid group instant spot Streamer privilege is a real thing. So I guess I don't have much sympathy for somebody getting ganked as a streamer Because at the same time you've got to believe that they're going to have their own counter army And they're they're receiving so many other privileges in the game that it's like You know, you got to figure it out. You know what I'm saying, but again, I agree to stay safe if there's something that's So grotesque and borderline stalker-ish Then obviously, you know blizzard should step in but In normal scenarios you're getting ganked for a little bit. You're a streamer. You're a big streamer call up your buddies They'll come they'll help you out. I don't see that as being a big deal And even if they don't come cry all the way to the mailbox where you got 600 gold waiting for you You know, I don't know I don't know Someone just said blizzard. He said he got a warning from blizzard for killing a level 60 20 levels in the barns or something got reported. So he said the blizzard already do that apparently Yeah, I think I think that in extreme cases like that and this can happen Like I said regardless of whether or not you're a streamer this can happen to random people if like if someone is just having a A bad day and they just want to camp you for nine hours like that that happens that happens to random people Not streamers necessarily. Um, I do think that that would be player harassment. I know that blizzard does Intervene in those situations In other words, I would expect the rules as they're applied today to be applied in classic whatever they are I don't know what they are, but whatever they are, they'll probably be applied the same way. Yeah Is that spawned back? Yeah, I'm back. Sorry. I was trying to read a question and I can't comprehend it Is it the one about full night? Yeah, I was trying to I don't know what the question is asking Will they are twitch prime skins? Yes Yeah, I think I don't even know one button to play christ I don't know is he asking if the kids are gonna play vanilla wow I think they probably will have twitch prime skins and you can preemptively sub to esfond right now using twitch prime to Just make sure it happens Oh Man, uh, let's let's go back to twitter a little bit. Do you guys want to check twitter and see if we we got some questions on twitter here? I think a stream froze right now. Oh, is it really? I'm bad. Thank you. Yeah There we go. Sorry about that guys. No, it's good. It's good. I know what's wrong Oh, you just uh, yeah Is it better? Is it working out? We're good. Yeah, we're good. Are we good? Yeah, we're good. Okay Um So going back to twitter a little bit You know equal equal opportunity. That's what we do here Uh, let's see hashtag class cast again at us and then hashtag class cast Um, and that's that's what i'm checking for for tweets here um Latest, okay vanilla collectors edition Uh original vanilla collectors edition. Oh, that's a good one Uh, yeah, I think that'd be great. I like if you have the original collectors edition to keep the original pets Is that what the question is? Yeah, you want to know something the other day I looked at you can still buy actual vanilla wow collectors editions They're four and a half thousand dollars Wow, four and a half thousand dollars. Jeez. That's insane That's like a lot to think about that's actually like a kind of a Interesting question where you can extend it onto if you have proof of purchase of the original wow on your account Will you get it for free if they are reset like let's say For example, they are reselling Classic wow as a game and a part of the subscription service as well If you have proof that you were playing back in that time Would you know, would it be cool to give you like maybe a discount code or maybe even the game for free? I'd be down for that but obviously I mean there's a lot of Issues without I suppose where you could have had an account back then and then just you know not played it Yeah, I mean, I think I actually tips and I were having this conversation the other day and uh So It's it's very it's very nice having your original account It's it's very valuable For me right now like that's just how I feel about it But for the longest time whenever I quit wow I quit wow for a long time I Felt burned because I got offered a lot of money from my account and I didn't take it Because like Yeah, I mean I had a bunch of gear like end end up burning crusade and I ended up quitting like within two months I think I ended up quitting within two months of getting offered You know a lot of money from my account because I had this and that and I was you know really highly rated and all this stuff Um, I was like frick. I should have taken the money But now it's like well my account was freaking active november 29th 2004 and I have this and I have I have a couple pieces of max gear and Like it's it's cool, right? Yeah, and it's not it's not max gear that I earned in max at 60 it's next year that I like I got like cool skin tunic and the uh Stygian buckler and I just got those at level 70 like I ran max like yeah with a pug once um But yeah, no it's stuff like that that uh I think it's very cool to you know if you can reward those people they got the original classic collectors edition That'd be pretty sick. I think that'd be uh, I just think it'd be something nice That'd be something cool that they could do give them those original pets and then maybe you can get a classic collectors edition uh, I don't think that you should have to This is my personal opinion. I don't think that you should have to buy bfa to get classic Some people might feel otherwise Blizzard might feel otherwise But I think if they released a classic collectors box set where you got maybe like a You know like a dvd where it explained like you know making of the process. How did this happen? You know just some cool stuff. Maybe get some in-game vanity pet some stuff like that. I think that'd be cool I think they should release that and then make it separate than the original classic collectors edition in-game rewards I think I think this would be cool It's just a tid biz and it's just something small. Yeah, I'd be fine. I'd be fine with that I don't think you have to buy bfa, but I fully expect there to be a classic box price, you know 30 40 dollars and I I think probably Um, you know, I'm not a blizzard market analyst, but this is what makes sense to me I think probably the classic box subscription fee will be tied into the the retail wow sub fee So if you can play one you can play the other because you're also paying for it I think that probably makes sense Uh, I think there will probably be points where if you're playing b if you're a bfa player You might be bored one day and you want to play classic. Well, you'll check it out Or if you're a classic player, you might be bored one day and you'll want to try bfa and vice versa I think I think that crossover is actually really good for a healthy like wow. He goes for your in general Exactly if if we have the option to play both. I'm pretty sure I would never quit. Wow because You play one for a couple of months you get bored you play the other for a couple of months You get bored you go back to the other one. Oh new new content patch for this one play a couple of months Oh new content patch for that one play a couple of months Like it would just keep you completely enraptured by wow. You would never want to leave Never leave you think they'll You think they'll time the patches for bfa and classic Yeah, I think so. I think they'll they'll definitely try to Supplement them together like two months to three months per back and forth. It would be why not right? Why not? Yeah I mean if you're raid logging in vanilla, you know, you can just do bfa in the meantime You know, you go the hardcore kind of vanilla stuff and then on the other side you can go do pet bow well I think uh, I do think that's something that's healthy for the game is is having a shared sub It's very very healthy for for world of warcraft Um, you know, like like you guys mentioned, uh, just just being able to play one You're in a content drought. You're bored. You're whatever and you want to go and let's say you're playing classic You want to do your thing you farmed up your red mats. You got your world buffs. You got to log off What am I going to go do? Well, who knows? I might go log on bfa and do some arenas, you know I might go do some battlegrounds on bfa. I might go do something like that. Um, I think about it From my perspective, I I would like to play arenas. I would like to play arenas in bfa I I really enjoy arenas because I'm a crazy person you know, like I I like doing that stuff in In in legion right now and and I expect to do that in bfa But uh, classics definitely got to be my main focus, you know It's cool Yeah, I think in a weird way I think if bfa is successful if they have that crossover sub I think it will make classic wow more successful. I want both games to be very successful I want both games to be very good Yeah, it's just good for it's good for the game. It's good for wow. Yep. Yeah Cross-marking Yeah, there you go Uh, let's see. I uh There was a question about wall mode in in classic as much as I kind of like the idea of wall mode I don't think it has a classic Yeah, I don't think uh, I that that's not something that's like in the That's not vanilla, right? That's that's just something that's not vanilla That's changes Yeah, I think uh, I do think I do think war mode is is a great idea for bfa from what I've seen I haven't really done much of it. It looks good war mode and bfa looks good But it's something that's totally like that's just not vanilla like that's not that's not That's not what vanilla is right along with sharding as well phasing Um And it will be in the client, but don't think they're gonna use it. Yeah. Yeah, for sure Uh, is there is there anything else you guys see anything else you guys see that you want to hit on? I kept seeing this question. What are the chances that 1.12 classical? I have actual digging and pvp I have no idea what that means That's the guy he comes to my chat and asks about digging Digging Digging to be yeah, like digging holes Taking souls The digging guys. Yeah, just just a role player. Just role playing That's all you want to do, dude You do you Yeah, uh, yeah, so do you guys have anything else? Is there anything else you guys want to hit on? Um I think we've been going for a while right? I think this has been pretty good. Uh, it's been very good Yeah, uh, one thing just kind of like wrap it all up here. Um Just kind of my my own take on it in a nutshell from the news. I think the news is very good I think they generally want to go Generally and genuinely seem to want to go with a no changes-esque type of approach There's going to be some technical limitations. There's going to be some things that they have to hit on That, you know, it may deviate a little bit. Some people consider is 1.12 a change is 1.12 not a change Uh, but they are going with a 1.12 base It's going to be, uh, you know, they want the authentic vanilla experience There's going to be some things like battle net integrated Modern anti-cheat botting detection modern customer service it seems Um But they don't want to do anything that's going to affect the core gameplay experience in a nutshell Um Other than that, I think I think we're good. I'm going to continue streaming Uh, do you guys have any do you guys have any other last bits information? I think you guys want to share it Thank you guys for watching and tuning in. Uh, mr. GM. Thank you guys today Yeah, it was a lot of fun a lot of fun So again, please if you guys haven't already, uh, please follow mr. GM Follow stay safe follow tips out, baby All that stuff you can see their info on the screen right there You can see it underneath their names their twitter their youtube their twitch Myself as well as fan tv on every platform tips out baby on every platform Stay safe tv and stay safe warlock on twitter and then mr. GM or mr. GM yt for youtube