 All right, we're recording Pat when you're ready. Okay. Seeing the presence of a quorum, I'm going to call the governance organization and legislation committee of the town council to order at 930 to make sure everyone can be see and be heard. I'm going to call on each counselor before I read pursuant to chapter 20. Thank you. Lynn Griezmer. Present. Mandy Joe Hanakie. Present. And I'm present pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021 extended by chapter 22 and 107 of the acts of 2022 and extended by chapter two of the acts of 2023. We conducted by a remote means members of the public who wish to access the meeting may do so via zoom or by telephone. No in person attendance of members of the public will be permitted. But every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time via technological means. With that, I'd like to go through the order of the agenda about I'd like us to look at the snow and ice bylaw because we need to make that completely ready for Monday. I'd like to move after that to the street proposed street lights policy, and then propose changes to the town council policy regarding control of the regulation of the public ways. I think a review of the parades and public meetings they just sort of a fitting together there and I included the flag policy in the agenda packet. We're not going to be looking at regulations relating to animals or local historic districts because nothing has been done about those. And I'm going to get a quick item out of the way. I'd like to make a motion to approve the minutes of May 24, 2023, and the minutes from the June 7, 2023. Meetings. Okay. All in favor. I, I need a roll call. Oh, okay. Lynn Griezmer. Yes. Thank you, Joe. And I'm an eye, so that's unanimous. Okay. Let's look at snow and ice. And what Pam Rooney had proposed is a change to section be three, where we removed 10 feet and change it to overgrowth of seven or less feet or less overhanging the sidewalk. That's considered an obstruction. Is there anything else that we need to look at before on this. I'm trying to, I think, I think the 10 feet was two major ones and seven was, I guess, arbitrary, but I think apparently was arbitrary too. But it accommodates somebody on a bicycle. Right. Yeah. That's great, man. Thanks. Stop. The jail looks very serious and she knows. So, um, yeah, I think seven feet would accommodate only pedestrians 10 feet probably accommodates nearly all cyclists. I'm thinking back to my trail cutting days. I think 14 is, I have like 14 or 15 in my head, but I think that was horse. I think that was a person on a horse, which would make sense. And so bikes are probably 10 is probably sufficient for bikes. That's what we're going for. I think looking at Pam's proposed changes to that. I think, I think that's fine for the purposes of this bylaw. You know, is vegetation that extends into the sidewalk zone or hangs down within 10 feet above the sidewalk. I think that's, that's logical language. Okay. Okay. Okay. Lynn. I'm fine. And I'm fine with that as well. So would someone like to make a motion to accept that change and to return this to the council. My question was, was there anything else? That's what I couldn't remember. If there was something else and I apologize for that. No, I mean Kathy had several other questions. They were about who was required to clear a sidewalk that belongs to the state and things like that. Right. And I don't believe they resulted. The responses didn't result in her having anything she wanted to change but like I think that's correct. I'm pulling out my notes. Good. Thank you. That doesn't mean they're thorough, but it just means. It means you could find them this morning. Yes. What her question was what if the sidewalk is in really bad conditions. Right and Paul answered that by. Yeah. Yes. I'll ask the question about 24 hour period. And when does that start and I think it starts the end of the snow accumulation. Yeah. And then the issue of written notice. Oh yeah, honest question was, we only provide for a penalty. We don't, the first is not a warning. And I think that's right whether we should write a first offence as a warning. I think personally I'd leave it like this because. What is a first offence? Is it per year? Is it each time? Like I think it gets. Confusing. Yeah. Right. It gets muddied like. In the 22 to 23 snow season. If you get. Worn in March. When you hit the 23 to 24 snow season, are you back to a first offence warning or not? I think. You know, and so I think I'd rather sort of leave it to the discretion instead of writing that in. Yeah, it does seem to me that. Inspector going out there would know whether they had been at the home before the year, even the year before given the memory of some of the people on the staff. So I'm comfortable with leaving it as it is when. Yep. Okay. And we can explain that on Monday. I think that's. Anything else. Not hearing anything. I'm looking at my notes and. You know, did we have to do something further to clarify waste hauler containers? Or did we already do that? It says containers for waste hauling collection. Right. That's pretty, it seems pretty. Yeah, that's pretty. That's pretty straightforward. I mean, I was thinking about maybe adding there is it must be removed from any public way, blah, blah, blah. By the end of the day of pickup. But I don't think, I mean. Because if I'm not, if. I'm not home. Until nine o'clock or something on that particular day. Right. But we're really trying to keep it. To the edges of the public way. Yeah. I mean, it says. On the day of pickup. So a pickup is at six a.m. on Tuesday, you have till 1159 p.m. By the bylaw to move them. That's true. Lynn, any comment? Yep. I'm just looking at Pam's. She, she wanted to define. Of this bylaw vegetation overgrowth is vegetation that extends into the sidewalk zone or hangs down. Within 10 feet above the sidewalk. Just overhanging. It can be pushing out into, well, that's still overhanging. If you're a bush and you've grown into outward tours. So she had a suggestion for replacing. Yeah. And that's fine with me. So we want to replace in three. Starting with vegetation overgrowth of seven feet or less overhanging the sidewalk. Shall be considered an obstruction. We want to replace that with. For the purposes of this bylaw vegetation overgrowth. Is vegetation that extends into the sidewalk zone. Or hangs down within 10 feet above the sidewalk. That's better. I move that we make that change. Yes. Can you repeat it one more time, Lynn? Yeah. In place of vegetation overgrowth of seven feet or less. Overhanging the sidewalk. Shall be considered obstruction. We would. We would replace that with. Vegetation overgrowth is vegetation that extends into the sidewalk zone. Or hangs down within 10 feet above the sidewalk. Okay. Is there a second. Second. Okay. Okay. Lynn more. I'm looking to see if there's anything more. I lost my place. Sorry. Now I think that's it. Yeah, we pretty much covered. This. I think we've covered it. Okay. Okay. Unless we were going to make a change about the. Issue of warning, or we were going to make a change about waste hauler containers. And we decided not to do those. The only other change was the 10 feet. Yep. All right. And we want hangs down 10 feet or less. Yes. Oh yeah. Or less. Okay. I mean, if you want. To give me co-hosting, I can pull things up. You can probably do it without co-hosting. You should be able to share screen, but. Okay. Yeah. All right. You're right. I don't need to be co-host. Okay. All right. So. Hang on. Vegetation. Vegetation overgrowth is vegetation that extends into the sidewalk zone. I think we need to say. Considered an obstruction. Shall be considered an obstruction. Is in the, what we've originally proposed. Vegetative overgrowth is vegetation that extends into the sidewalk zone or hangs down. Within 10 feet or less. Above the sidewalk. So, so I think the way to make it the sentence vegetated. I think you'd add the phrase. That. That is considered an obstruction is so vegetative overgrowth. That is considered an obstruction is vegetation that extends. Is vegetation that extends into the sidewalk zone. Or vegetation that hangs down 10 feet or less above the sidewalk. Yes. Is that acceptable? I like the word overhangs. There instead of, but I don't care. I mean, it's a, I don't, I mean, if it's 10 feet. So it's the sidewalk zone is going to be hanging over. So I think maybe even just do extends into the sidewalk zone. Oh, great. Or lower above the sidewalk or something like that. Right. I can't. This is not a word document. So I really can't do much with it. I don't want to get it into a motion. Vegetation overgrowth. Extends into the site. I'm sorry, Mandy. Extends into the sidewalk zone or can you repeat that please? So yeah, so for the purposes of this bylaw, vegetative overgrowth. Extending into the sidewalk zone. 10 feet or less above the sidewalk. So I think that should be considered an obstruction. Yeah. Brian approves. We're actually taping this. Please. The public needs to know where human beings. No, they don't say that again. Okay. Vegetative overgrowth extending into the sidewalk zone, 10 feet or less above the sidewalk shall be considered an obstruction. But I think we also need. Extends into the sidewalk zone, not above, but. You know, to the, to the sides as well. To the side and above. No, you got to separate them. Yeah. No, anything within the sidewalk zone up to 10 feet, right? Whether it's coming from the side or drooping down above. That starts 12 feet, but droops down. It's all extending into the sidewalk zone. I think we just need that extends into the sidewalk. Can we say. Extending into the sidewalk zone. Or hangs down and. Or hanging down. Yeah. Or, or hanging down within. 10 feet or less. Above the sidewalk. I think that doesn't. And then it's shell. I think we, we did it so that you can put the shell be considered an obstruction at the end. Yeah. Yeah. Lynn, you're muted. Yeah. Do you want to show what you have Athena? Yeah, it'd be great. Yeah. See, you don't guys don't need me as a chair. So I'm going. Please stop this. No. Nobody else in this room can share in the committee at this point can share. Sorry for doing this, but if you look at our original language, if we change the seven to 10. And add overhanging or extending into. The sidewalk. Yeah. Of course that of seven feet or less was confusing, right? I think it's going to hate us. So vegetative overgrowth, overhanging. Or extending into the side overhanging the sidewalk or extending into the sidewalk zone. I don't think you need feet there for the extending. It's just extending into the sidewalk. Well, 10 feet above. I think I can do it with commas. Hang on. Well, but the extending into the sidewalk from the side at 11 feet isn't a problem. That's what I'm trying to get at. We want the sidewalks cleared. In a 10 foot box. And it doesn't matter. If it's extended from the side, I think I can do it with commas. Hang on. But the extending into the sidewalk from the side at 11 feet isn't a problem. That's what I'm trying to get at. We want the sidewalks cleared up in a 10 foot box. And it doesn't matter if that, that. Ficus Bush or whatever. Is trimmed up to 10 feet at 11 feet. It can go over the sidewalk. We don't care. It just needs trimmed nicely up to 10 feet. You need vegetative overgrowth, overhanging the sidewalk. By 10 feet or less. So that's where I liked the within 10 feet of above the sidewalk. Or so how do we do this 10 feet? What about, what about vegetative overgrowth extending into the sidewalk or hanging overhanging. Within 10 feet of the sidewalk. Shall be considered an obstruction. Or hanging the sidewalk or extending into the sidewalk zone. 10 feet or less above the sidewalk. I think we just need to move that. Yes. I think we have to keep the 10 feet or less for extending into the sidewalk zone too. Right. But you don't want. You wanted to be anything extending into the sidewalk. No, we only up to 10 feet. That's why we need it for both clauses. No, I mean, if you. You don't usually have a bush that's extending a branch out 10 feet into the sidewalk. But it's, it's, it's that 10 foot height. Right. Yeah. No, I understand that, but. But this means. I think this takes care of the 10 foot height. Overhanging 10 feet or less. And it doesn't matter what part of the sidewalk it's overhanging or extending into the sidewalk. Why do we need to be extending into the sidewalk zone at all? Because that, that was the original issue was. I think it clarifies that we're talking about things hanging down. Or this. No. Vegetative overgrowth extending into the sidewalk. Extending or overhang. Into the sidewalk. Okay. Or overhanging or overhanging the sidewalk. 10 feet or less. Above. Too many sidewalks, but. That works as long as people know what we're going for. Right. Yeah. The confusion there is what does 10 feet or less mean? We're looking for 10 feet or less above the sidewalk. Yeah. I guess you need to say 10 feet or less above the sidewalk. Above the sidewalk needs to be there. If the branch is 20 feet because it starts 20 feet away, it still counts that part of it that's over the sidewalk. Yeah. I don't know what someone's saying, but it's a 20 foot branch. It's fine. Okay. How are people now with this? I think it works. I agree. I move this. And. Bandy Joe, are you a second? Oh, wait, I was the second, but I think we could make it easier. Athena. If we just. That's the entire second sentence. So if we just say recommend the town council replace the second section three with, and then just put for the purposes of the bylaws part of the sentence. And then just write the whole sentence. Yeah. And it's. Yeah. It just makes it easier, I think. I'm good with the second again. Okay. Shall we vote on that? Mandy Joe. Hi. Lynn. You're muted. Yeah. I'm an eye. Thank you. So that's. Three in favor and two absent. That would be the other vote as well. All right. I think we're done with that one. And. So what we, I had said earlier is that we were going to go to the street light policy. And can you pull that up? Athena. I have a hard copy here. Most of us do, but or. And I have. I have a few questions. But I can hold. I'm interested in hearing from you, Lynn, and Mandy Joe first. I'm one of the sponsors, you know, we're talking about clarity, consistency and action ability. I don't think any of that is a problem. I wonder though. The way this is written right now was to track changes to the current policy. Right. Which makes it very. We've got two different colors because two different people have done the changes. One section of it isn't even in track changes because it's completely new. And so it was like, how do you change? So I'm wondering if it would just be easier to recommend a. Repeal and replace. Where all of these changes are accepted and the clean version goes into the packet. I mean, we can put this one in so people can see what the changes are. I wonder if the motion at the council's easier as a. Repeal and replace. That's going to make writing the motion easier. Yeah. Yeah. I think I can go along with that. And the questions I have, I can say for council. Because they are. There are questions about meaning and stuff like that. And that. Then we'll get done. Meaning is clarity. We can answer it. Okay. So. In four B. It's set. Where is it? In the definitions. The illumination levels. Wait a minute. Who determined. Well, I'm trying to see who determines whether the cost is prohibitive. Maybe I've got that. Yeah, that's an illumination levels on page five. Yeah. Yeah, if possible and not cost prohibitive. Who's determining whether it's prohibitive or not. What if I think it is, and you think it isn't. Is it just up to a committee vote or who's making that decision. So the DPW would be making that decision. Okay. Do you think that needs to be added? Well, I guess the town manager would be making it. Yeah. We could add the phrase if not caught and not cost prohibitive. I don't know. I don't know. As determined by the town manager. Or if we wanted the council to make that cost prohibitive determination. We could do council, we could do JCPC because that's normally where the costs would come up initially. I think I'd prefer it with the town manager. I mean, it seems more efficient. He, you know, he's really. Making those kinds of, I don't know. I don't know. I agree that it would probably be a DPW decision. I would be surprised if they're conferring with the town manager when they buy street lights. Okay. All right. But I'm not sure we'd have to ask Gil Carter, Paul. We could put as determined by the town man, man manager or designate. Does that. Resolve it for you, Athena. And I know you're in the committee, but I value your opinion. Yeah, it's not up to me to resolve. I'm sure. That would be fine because. That would clarify it. Yeah. Okay. Let me see. Other. I wonder also in B2. Section a. It talks about sensitive uses. And the last sentence is sensitive uses include. Are there other besides conservation land that's under conservation restriction? And if there are, should they be listed? Are you Pat? I'm on page four. B2. The bottom. Sentence. It, it talks about sensitive uses. Oh, this one in a. Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry. Hey, I apologize. And then I have a question for B, but sensitive uses. So are there other uses that should be listed or is. But instead of just include that. That's the typical one that's listed in most of these bylaws. Yeah. You know, there could be others, but we could say sensitive uses include, but are not limited to land subject to conservation restriction. That'd be fine with me. I think Lynn, do you have any. Yeah. It just feels like it needs some. That's fine. Yeah. Is there a, all right, then. Same section. But to be. Or not to be to be. Glare. The constitutes a hazard. Or causes intense discover discomfort. Again. How is intense discover discomfort by occupants determined. The next sentence. Okay. As who makes the determination. Of whether it's really bothering me. Yeah. A whole lot. That's. Okay. All right. Oh. Can I just, I just asked a dip. In terms of sky glow. Yeah. No street lights shall change the overall brightness or color of the night sky. That just seems. I'll say that. Because it. Pardon me. It's tough to measure. Yeah. Yeah. That's what came up with. In TSO, Gilford's questions were, well, from what? What's the baseline? Yeah, exactly. Which is why we put that next sentence on the board. Scale about what we're looking for. As a town. Because it really is tough to measure and you'd have to pick a. Baseline. Right. But the baseline can't be no illumination whatsoever. So that's why that next sentence was added that's in underlined. Okay. Give an idea of what we're going for. Okay. Okay. Oh, and this is just. This is curiosity. The town shall resume paying for street lights that were limited in 1991. What is that about? I don't know. Andy can answer that better. This is, this is up at the. That's in the current policy. Yeah, I know. Yeah. So back in. The 90s, I guess they're, I don't remember this recession, but there must have been a recession in the early nineties or something. And so the town turned off a whole lot of street lights as part of that. So I don't know on if the residents paid for them. And so when the select adopted this policy, they put that thing in. I don't know. Fine. That's helpful. Thank you. That's. There was a general Brown out that we were all trying to achieve to save money. It wasn't just hammers. It was all over the country. Yeah. That was the year that they discouraged people from putting up Christmas lights. You're not even old enough Pat. There you go. Excuse me. I was alive in the nineties. But I really, I lived in children falls when in 91. So. So can I just ask what was the vote of TSO on this? Yeah. Let me check my notes. I'm pretty sure it was unanimous with. Was it too absent? Let me see if I can find my notes. So Dorothy was absent. And Shalini was absent. So yeah, it was unanimous with Dorothy and Shalini absent. Shalini had written in to the meeting. Well, written to the chair who indicated that Shalini supported it. I don't know whether Dorothy specifically said so or not in an email to the chair. I know there was an email to the chair from Dorothy that talked about. Some concerns, but I think the concerns were more again dealing with location than this. This really does not deal with location. No, that's the whole point of just modifying the, the current policy, but we'll do a rescind and replace probably because it's easier is. The location is the big issue. And so we're trying to keep that what it is now, what the policy has been for the last 20 years. On that and not do that anymore. Okay. So I think this will bring up questions at the council. I just want to mention that. I'm going to either be ordering the agenda. Or reordering it once. I'm just going to reset the agenda. So that certain things come up earlier in the meeting. Because of availability of counselors who are either traveling or having other issues. Hello, this is Jeff. Jeff. Sorry, we're both working from home today. Okay. So I move that the street light. I'm going to go back to the city council. I'm going to go back to the city council. I'm going to go back to the city council. Policy. Now I moved to repeal and replace. You're going to recommend the town council repeal and replace. Right. I recommend it clear, clear, consistent and actionable and recommend the motion be repeal. Right. So moved. Is there a second. I'm going to go back to the city council. And I'm going to take a second. I'm going to take Mandy Joseph sponsor. And are we ready to vote on. Do you have that Athena? I have, I have it ish. Okay. It's just good. Let's I'm an I, Lynn Griezmer. I am. Andy Johannike. I. Right. It's moved. Three in favor to absent. Okay. Um, and, and I'm going to add. Into that recommendation that the changes that the committee has agreed to. So by adding as determined by the town manager or their designee. And sensitive uses include, but are not limited to. Thank you. I agree with that. And then TSO also recommended. Um, that the policy be effective September 1. For all new and replacement street lights and for existing street lights. Installed prior to September 1 full compliance note later than September 1, 2033. Do you want to add that into the GOL motion? Or do you want to just. Leave that as a recommendation from TSO. I think it's fine to add in, we could just say with effective dates per TSO's recommendation. Sounds good. Does a repeal and replace. Create problems with the effective dates. Oh, probably not. Well, it'll be voted on either on Monday or the meeting in July. Is that not time enough for a change to September? No, I think it's fine. It's just, you know, I never mind. I think, I think I'm overthinking it. It should be fine. Okay. I think it will be fine. Does this. Does this have a. Does this have a. A number. It's not a policy. It's a policy by the keeper of the public way. Got it. We ready to move on. Yeah. Why don't, um, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, Athena, do you have the motion completely settled? I need to add in the, the two changes that. Um, that we're in there. You've already voted. So as long as you're okay with my adding those two things, then I think we're. I feel comfortable. Okay. Shall we move forward? Yes. Okay. Then what I have us doing is looking at. Um, the, um, the control and regulation of the public ways. Um, we have had. Some input from the town attorney. And we've also had, um, on parades and public meetings. We have that feedback. From the attorney. And I pulled. I also included the flag policy. And I also included the flag policy. And I also included the flag policy. And we were made to that. And voted on. And so what I'm also wondering is how ready is this? Depending on what we do today to come forward to the council, because we were trying to. Include everything. In a single vote or not a vote, but a single meeting. Yeah, I, I really, again, would like to urge that the flag. Okay. The changes are all come as one package. Yeah. Okay. So you, but, um, the, the changes to the public way are. Somewhat about flags and banners. So. Yeah. So we were waiting on flags we were fine with, but we wanted to see the banner issue with the public way, which it sounds like, K P. Yeah. And then I had actually, because of the parades and all issue I attempted to add some of that into the policy, which I'm not sure KP law has seen, but I'm not sure that's okay. Those are highlighted. Yes, there's there's mainly two sections there that was a goal of being able to then rescind the parades and whatever it was called by law. We were thinking of rescinding that if we just covered it all in public ways in our policy. And it seems to me that the primary issues are very similar, you know impact on First Amendment rights, and what we are limited to which is time, place and manner. So, and Mandy, did you integrate. I think you did. So I didn't have KP laws comments so they're not integrated into what I sent. Okay. So maybe it would be easier looking at KP laws comments. It would be easier to pull up her comments and integrate what I did into that document. Okay. And I can work on integrating it if you want me to just pull it up it won't take me too long. Okay, that'd be great. Okay, let me pull it up and then I'll integrate as we talk. Okay. You'll have to bear with me with a small share screen while I integrate. So just bear with me. Yeah, no, that's fine. I can. Yeah, I get my eyes examined in. I'll make it big soon enough. I know. Relax, I'm going to go. I'll be right back. I'm just going to put some screen on my ear. Thank you. Thank you. And Joe, why are we adding them the board of license commissioners? Because we have delegated something to them. Right. This policy already. Let me change that spacing. Give me a second. Let me just type it first. Yeah, don't worry about that yet. And this is one of the first ones. So we can talk about this one and I'll go add the other one in when we get there. I'm just fixing. Thank you. Yeah, that's it. I don't know what I was going to say. I think we should move on to the next slide. I think we should move on to the next slide. I think we should be moving forward because we delegated lunch cart reservations. Right. Board. So I figured the update should be that we. Yeah, I like that update. I think it's important. It's just keeping everything updated there. And then the other one was sort of the pulling of what happens when there's a conflict in from the parades and. bylaw into this sort of general over that says, Hey, if there's conflicts, you try to accommodate both. And if not, the council, the request comes to the council. If there can't be accommodating of both, that was the goal of this one. Yeah. In terms of the parades and all. Yeah. I'm so I'm good so far. Yeah. So I think Lauren just changed all the language from what I had written what we'd originally adopted to more legalese. Yes. This is what it looks like. In B, there is a two X's. Yeah. Yeah. We have to decide the number of spots. I think used to be like four. So, so let's see how she rewrote this. I had originally drafted it as a total spots throughout town, which we had determined was probably more like eight. Right. When was that Mandy? Oh, it's very talked about this. Yeah. It was back in our first term. Yeah. Okay. No, this was this section is new. This is the new section on sidewalk dining. Oh, so you were trying to add in the number of parking spaces that are currently being used and limiting it to that number of spaces. But we're out town. Right. We could say I think we determined there were like eight spots used right now. Yeah, it's fine with me. Throughout town, we only have eight spots that are because there's dining in several different places. And it seems to me that's more than eight spots. I could be on their side. There's Amherst coffee. There's on Pleasant Street, you know, several different restaurants there. Yeah, I was thinking there were four of these parklets dining parklets and each one took up two spots because most of where they are are parallel parking, not back in parking. And so I think they only take up two spots each. But isn't that doesn't it does seem you're right about the parklets. But do all I'm trying to think of where all the parklets are now. Amherst coffee, which I think is only two spots. That's two and fresh side. That's two. I think that's two. There's one near Antonio's. Yeah, I can't think of which restaurant it is, but and that's a parklet. I think it's outdoor dining. Oh, it's in front of like Bistra 63 or something. Yeah, but I think I think that's only two. Let's put the number in as eight now and then check with Paul. Okay. So I think some of this, we can clean up because it's not current language. So I'll do that later. Okay. Once I figure it out. So that was we're down to here. Lunch hearts, it looks like it was just language again. This one, the only other change that was the only other change I proposed because of the space there. Always sales improved. Do you want to add public meetings, which are different than block parties? Because it's really a definition of public meetings. Yeah, by law. It's in the it is in the title of the bylaw. Yeah, but but beyond that, there wasn't really a definition. I would not just I wouldn't say Halloween strolls. I would just say strolls because we did that Christmas stroll. That's right. Yeah, celebrations. Yeah. So this is Athena. Do you need to give the town manager authority to adopt regulations? Because I think the way it's written now, he I don't know if he has a right to say no to anybody for any of the requests. Well, he gets to review and act on. But I think the criteria that Paul uses now is just if there's nothing else going on. The town can delegates to the town manager authority to review and act on. Right. So that's I think that's just approval. But if there's no mechanism for the town manager to say no to anybody, then it's it's not government speech to do any of those things. It's it's the public the public right to use the public way. Mandy, maybe you read that differently than I do. But are you just talking about the short term closures or this whole thing? The right now. Right now. Well, using using any delegation to the town manager for using public ways. So that would be the common too. Yeah. So I think right the common, according to what Lauren said, we basically can't refuse the common. Right. That was in the parades and public meetings review. You can't really say no, no matter how awful they are. Right. West Brookfield or East Brookfield just ran into that problem. Right. Because the common's the common. Right. And there there is this thing about seventy five people or less that I have questions about which I didn't translate over to this. Yeah. Uses. Right. You know, because anyone can in some sense set up on the common and do what they want if they don't want to reserve it. Right. You can just. Yeah. All the time without even before I lived in Amherst, there were times I came to the common to protest something that was happening. And I don't know whether the people had gotten a permit to protest on the common. I somehow rather doubt it. I yeah. And people who, you know, small gatherings of folks for different reasons happens may be scheduled by the people, but seem spontaneous on the common. So I think we need to be very careful. Yeah. In terms of limiting. Yeah, I did add the alternate location. And then if there's a conflict, bring it to the council. Right. And then the policy always has the ability for them to bring it to the council anyway. Mm hmm. I think that's reserved somewhere later. I think we said I think our biggest question was the. Signage that I attempted to add in at some point that should be here somewhere. Yes, there's banners. I'm curious what she said about that. Yeah, here we go. So it still allows. So if there's any reservation on the common, then that person who's reserving on the common can also request a banner and comment or would be compelled to say yes. If he's saying yes to one, then he would say yes to the other. Yeah. Yes. So the question is, do we want to remove that? I mean, it sounds like at least for this, Lauren was okay with how it's written. And the questions we had were there's so many things that go on on that banner, right? The Juneteenth celebration was just on a banner. The the league book sale goes on a banner. Those aren't some of those aren't even on the common yet. Do we want to have to see them? We get I definitely think we want to be able to allow for them to advertise. So the question is, do those come right now? They've never come to the council at all. DPW just creates their reservation and it's a first come, first serve. But you know, some of it's advertising, some of it's not. Do we care who gets to advertise? No matter what the event or do we want to say all of those banners are government speech? And so I think we need to say there. I'm sorry, Mandy, I think the council keeps it. Yeah. I think it has to be government speech because I really, you know, the organization that is really despicable reserves the common and they have the right to do that. I don't particularly want their banner floating across the town, one of the main streets in town. But I don't know how whether we would have to or not. But if we're determining it's government speech, and we approve on a regular basis, holidays, you know, events in town, welcoming students, that's one thing. But I think it has to be government speech. So I think if we delete this sentence here about events, you know, banners that advertise events on the common, that have a reservation, we it just means the council is going to get more and more banner requests, which we might be able to generally just put on consent, right? But we're going to have to get all the banner requests that are not flags of these items. Yeah, so I have a I have a welcome seasonal cheer banners. Hang on, Mandy. What were you going to say, Lynn? Under the flags and banners of the United States, Massachusetts Amherst, does that include all of town government? And the elementary school? So so I had the regional schools. Yeah, but does and what about the library? I mean, is the library and elementary school under the town of Amherst? They are in our budget. Does the library have its separate flag? Does the elementary school have a separate banner or banner or banner? I mean, they might. They might create a separate banner. Hi. Um, so I can have the elementary schools in Jones Library in. I don't see the point of adding Jones Library. But I think if you just say town of Amherst with the assumption that anything that is approved as part of the town of Amherst budget is under this, yeah. And then can I just suggest that you just call it the Amherst business district, not the Amherst business. They that's actually an agency. I mean, unless that's an identified governmental. Amherst, where am I on the one right above? Where it says Amherst business improvement district. So so that is a specific. So I was trying to figure out a way to to do the banners, like how do we how do we talk about the banners within the downtown? Right. And see when you say business, that's the bid. Right. But they have a specific district. As defined as defined legally. Is it a legal definition by state? By their charter that then went through, like, acceptance and all. And I don't know how it works. I can try and look it up quickly. Don't worry about it now. Just I just mean the bids. The bid, each a business improvement district is established through state law. OK, if that's the case, then I'll sort of things. Yeah, I'm fine then. I will say that there's also been discussion about the flags up at North Common. But I think they're all on private property. Nor me the north. I'm sorry, Melville Mill District. Yeah, thank you, because I was like, yeah, that is all private property. Yeah, OK. Are you sure? I think we want to ask the town manager whether he wants a policy here. Well, so the problem was when we do the flag policy, that policy only covered. I mean, we'd have to pull it up, right? But it only covered the town common flag poles. That's right. That's right. And the banners and this is supposed to be and we were attempting. Yeah, we were attempting to cover the rest of the stuff with this to include that as government speech. Right, I got it. OK. It's tricky. I just wanted to be able to read it easier. Yeah. Do we want to say the Amherst Business Improvement District as defined by mass, whatever it is defined by? No, I'm fine, as long as we have, you know, there's OK. I just want to make sure that we're using a not an organization, but a state defined district. Yeah, I mean, it's a state. My understanding of business improvement districts in the state is that there's a state method you go through like to define it and then get by in. And as long as so many property owners within that defined district said, yes, then everyone's bound to pay the dues and this and that under state law. So there had to be like a defined here are the properties that would be in it. And then they had to do like some sort of like petition, essentially, of those property owners. And once they had a certain percentage of that, the district was created by those properties. So let me ask this with regard to our downtown business district, are the properties along? Oh, God, where is that? What street is that? What are you thinking of? When what place? Over where the spoke to is going. Leads into the the other one that leads into the traffic circle where the bank if bank of the. Try to. Part of it, according to this map. OK, the map is a very stylized map, but I can put it up. Well, some of it is so. That's fine. I just. No, it's worth looking at. When don't it's a very stylized map. Yeah, but OK, so basically. It shows that the first three properties. Right there. So this is this is cottage. So yeah, plus the the medical offices on cottage. Everything triangle. Yeah, because this is triangle. OK. And that section. And it goes down to the in at Boatwood. Yeah, and the common and all. And then over here, it doesn't not go all the way down to. Yeah, got it. All right. And we have the map that they gave me. I don't know whether that's the truth, right? That's what's on their website. Sometime we may have to add village centers. Yeah, yes, because, you know, there's a big push, for instance, to develop the East Village Center. Yeah, as we get banners in those areas right now, I'm not sure there's banners that go there. We can add more sections to the banners. Right. Yeah. OK, so I think. I think we're done with E E. So F is and everything else. Was just. Oh, that's right. This is where we get rid of the temporary, right? We're getting rid of the temporary. Why did she change? Oh, she changed to two retains, not remains. Yeah, the authority. She changed everywhere. Oh, so we should put in instead of the town manager. We could put in the whole thing. What's what's the phrasing we used up here? So it's not just the manager that return retains. Yeah, that's good. There you go. Yeah. Then that there's why do we have shall be authorized their sole discretion to decline? So basically, this is the part that Athena was talking about of, like, does the manager have a right to say no in a sense? Right. If the manager is uncomfortable or if the board of licensed commissioners is uncomfortable or DPW is uncomfortable, they can always say, I'm not touching this. You have two there. Yeah, you have two there to get rid of the one. Yeah, now that's the the language that allows them to say, I'm not touching this one with a 10 foot pole. At that point, they bring it to the council. And we panic. And we say, oh, my. OK, we have a little work to do. Yeah. So is this going to be I think this is just an amend? I mean, this is a complicated amend, but it's an amend. Yeah. OK. So are we going to try to do the other two? I have a really hard stop at eleven thirty. What time is it now? Ten forty two. What are you doing? Eleven. Yeah, so are we going to move? That we recommend. To the town council, the amendments to the public way to the recommend the town council adopt the amendments to the public, to the town council policy regarding control and regulation of the public ways as present as discussed at the June twenty one jail meeting, right? Yes, I make that motion. Second, DeAngeles. OK, shall we vote on that? Yes, Lynn, I and I'm and I. So I think then we need to go back to the flags and the parades and public meetings. Yeah, parades. You were just going to rescind. Yeah, so I can make that motion. I move to recommend the town council rescind general bylaw three point three five parades and public meetings. Second. And let's vote on that, Lynn. I Andy, I and I. And so now we're back to flag policy. Yeah, I think I I hope people realize we are going to have a very long meeting on Monday night. No, yeah, that's just life. So better Monday than the 17th. I agree with that. Although then you might want to. Do a first read of the bylaw rescission and flag policy and revisions to the public way policy on the 26th and then on the 17th, do them all together, approve them all together. OK, yeah. So that sounds like a good plan. Yeah, it really does. The two things that I think we're going to need move to the toward the top of the actions. One is the council or salaries, the other ones is street lights. Mandy, are you bringing up the flag policy or should I? I I'm hunting it because it doesn't seem to be in today's packet. Yes, I apologize for that. I don't know what I put it in, but where the most recent one is. Oh, wait, I think I got it. No, that's the memo. No, that might be the memo. No, I got it. If you got it, send me a copy of it. Yeah, this is the one I have. That's yeah, it is part of the memo. That's why it's hard to write. So it's part of the memo. I think those are the proposed changes we had. And I remember Andy had a to bet question, but I think that got answered. Yeah. And then effect on passage, we wanted to make sure the public ways included everything on that. So we've covered that. So I think we would be I'll I'll try to make the motion. OK, I move to recommend the town council adopt. The flag raising policy as. Shown in the document memo to town council flag raising policy for 26 2023 GOL questions and proposed to edits. That can. Yeah. All right, let's vote on that. I'm an I, Mandy. I, Lynn, I. And so let me just on all of the things we voted on today, even though it's unanimous, I'm not going to put them on consent. No, please, Jesus Christ. There's there there wouldn't be a consent anyway, because we're going to do a first read. So yeah, there's a first read on all of them. They might be able to go on consent after the first read. Yeah. Because you'll get an idea of where people are. Take a breath. Yeah. The agenda. Other than public comment. So at this point in the meeting, I am going to call for public comment. But seeing no one in attendance. I am going to terminate public comment. And I'm going to make the suggestion that the meeting is adjourned. Oh, hang on, Pat, did you did you want to talk about the next GOL meeting? Oh, thank you. Thank you very much, Athena. The next meeting is scheduled for July 5th. And I. Yeah. So I was wondering if people wanted to cancel that meeting. Now, let me just let's just talk about what we're trying to do. OK, we said that we were going to try to get. The rules of procedure done for either July or August. Right. The bylaws done for either July or August. I think we have two meetings in August. Am I right? Or. Or do we have what is our second meeting in July? Is it the 19th? It's all we only have the 17th. Yeah, right. That's council. Our next GOL meeting is the 19th. Yeah. Yeah. So if we're going to bring either of those forward for the 17th, we're going to have to meet on the 5th. Yeah. Or the 12th. If we don't want to do the 5th, we could pop it to the 12th. Let me potentially. Yeah. I could do the 12th. I'm looking now. I could do the 12th. I'd have to reschedule a PT appointment, but I can do that. All right. So let's be out of town, but I can get somebody else to run your meeting. OK, thank you. So we're going to move July 5th to the 12th, and we need to make sure we let Jennifer and Michelle. I'll do that. Um, OK, and then shall we not meet on the 19th? Or I just trying to try. I think we need to. I think we meet just in case we get items back on the 17th. OK, God. Yeah. Right. I don't I'm trying to figure out. I think we have to meet on the 12th and the 19th. We would have the second before the next council meeting, but depending on what we're doing. Right. And I guess here's my question. Are we just talking about six point rules of conduct? Or are we talking about all of the rules and procedures? All of them. OK, there were a number of others that were. Yeah, yeah, that I try to plow through the whole thing. All right. And I think that should take we should start that in July because the bylaws, I hate to say this. They're not ready. They have to. They're not ready, but OK. And then when are we meeting in August? Let me look. I have the second and the 16th. Yeah, I have August 7th and the 30th sound council. I'm sorry. I have two 16 and 30 in August. So in our meeting in August is on the 21st. So we're going to probably have to be those two. No, we're next. We're not going to do the 7th, no matter how backed up we are, Lynn. The town staff would really like not to have a meeting. So I'm just going to say I don't know whether we're going to be able to do that with zoning bylaws, depending on when they get done in terms of meeting 90 day requirements. OK. And are we talking about August 7th here or I got a little confused there? August 7th is an optional council meeting. Yeah, but most likely will happen. As her way, it won't. But if we're going, you're already saying this Monday's meetings insanely long. There's only one other in July. That's right. Our committees are rental registration. Hopefully we'll be done by then. Like we're going to be potentially backing stuff up even more if we don't before you cancel it, I would just wait to see what committees get done. OK, Athena will discuss what you're able to cover or not cover. I'm not going to be here for the 7th. Right. And Paula's out of town as well. So that will be. Oh, I know you all thought it was just me, but it's not. It's on the calendar as a meeting, though. It's an if needed. It's an if needed. No, I know that. But we're talking about. Two rather important people not being able there. I know. While on Athena and Lynn. Who's next? I'm available. Yeah, I hear that. I know that. Well, I just worry that if it gets canceled. Is it. And I. Is it too late to put in that meeting, an optional meeting of the council on the 14th of August? I will say I'm planning my vacation around the 7th and the 21st, because that's the scheduled being right. So I'm set to leave on vacation on the 8th and come back for the 21st. Right. Like, and I wouldn't be surprised if other counselors have planned the same in terms of. I'm assuming Paul and Athena are both also going to be on vacation. So whose vacation is the most? I'm just saying, like, when the meeting schedule gets published, people plan it around it. Yeah, no, I know that, but. Well, I don't think we should ever use the word optional again. No, I'm I'm trying to. Provide staff with more of a relaxed summer, but obviously it's not working. Yeah. Yeah. You did that in the spring with pushing everything off, Lynn. I didn't push it off. It wasn't ready. I know that wasn't ready. Yeah, yeah, let's the reason I'm saying let's not have them optional is because Athena and Paul probably wouldn't have scheduled their vacation right there. So I don't know. Yeah, I mean, I don't know what the solution is. Obviously, you and the group have to talk. I need to get a sense of what's coming up. Right. And it's hard, at least as chair of CRC, it's hard to even know when things will finish. Right. But with zoning, there's a there's a there's a time limit to vote. And that always worries me if we're canceling meetings and not having meetings for an entire month when there's time limits to vote. And so the the time limit would be on. Duplex, triplex. Yeah, but it depends on when the hearing closes. So I won't know the time limit until we close the hearing. And then we have 90 days to vote. And it has to go to GOL before it comes to the council and it has to have two readings and it has to wait 21 days between when the there's all sorts of time limits and you don't know any of that until things start closing. And and right now it's not been closed in by either in either committee by planning. Right. OK. So and we're going to try to get it closed today and tomorrow. We're looking at a September, June, July, August, September 20th or something deadline to vote. So we can bring it up in August, the end of August, the August. Actually, I'd have to look at the schedule to see. OK. We run into, of course, counselor right to postpones and all sorts of things need to come into alignment. So right once the hearings are closed, I have a better idea as chair as to the timing that needs to happen at the council. OK. Got it. All right. Well, I think what we agreed on is that we're meeting on July. 12th and not the 5th. Yes. And that we are meeting on August 2nd and the 16th. Yes. Yeah. And July 19. We have a meeting scheduled. Right. Right. Yeah. Right. That hasn't changed. And so what we want to do is to the extent possible, clean up anything on the 19th and start plowing into the finalizing the bylaws. OK, we're bringing bylaws forward on the 21st of August. I thought we were doing the. I mean, 20th over the summer. We're we're doing. We're going to try to do rules at the meeting on July 17th. OK, so the fifth and so the 12th is our only date where we're going to try and get through all the rules. Yeah, the fifth and the 12th. We just canceled the cancel the first. Oh, I'm sorry. Oh, the 12th is the date that we're going to try to get through the rules. The 17th is the date they'll come to the council. The 19th is the date that will clean up any on the rules and begin on the bylaws. And then we have two more meetings, the second and the 16th for bylaws. Before it comes to the council on the 21st, the real issue is whether or not all the other people that need to do work will have done it. Right. I'm sorry. All right. Is our everybody is everybody clear about that? Yes, I just think it's important to check with. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, I'll send that out after the meeting and it is now. And 58 Pat, I'm going to suggest that you put rules and bylaws on the next four agendas so that if bylaws, we don't have things back from the thing, the people that we need them back from the committee can do what it can on rules. OK, that makes the other thing is I would put the. The three things that we're going to do first readings on on the July 12th agenda. Mm hmm. On case we have to clean up stuff for the July 17th meeting. OK, I want to go over this a little bit. Town council 17 and clean up 19. I thought we were going to look at the bylaws. We're going to put I hear what Athena is saying about putting both the rules and bylaws on the agendas on the 12th. Yeah, on the end of 19th. Yes, that's right. And but we're not really most likely, we're not going to really look at the bylaws until August. Is that correct? That's the that's the council meeting I'm targeting them for is August 21st. The August 21st is the council meeting you'd like the bylaws at. Yeah, OK, OK. And that would be presented in whatever state that they're in. Ones that we are repealing amending or have not been. OK, right. And so that we have two meetings before the 21st in August to work on those. Right. Yeah. The one thing I'm going to suggest about I know that I have old material on the rules and procedure. But if there's anything new that people just send that to me. The only thing new was something Michelle at one point was going to work up. And I don't know if she intends to do it or not anymore. Right. And then also, I guess that, yeah, that's the only thing. All right. Well, then I, Lynn, can I have half a second with you after adjournment? Like literally just a minute. Yes. All right. I'm going to seeing. That we've gotten through the business, there's no unanticipated items. I'm going to suggest that we adjourn the meeting all in favor. I think. All right. Thank you. And Lynn, if you could stay on for just a minute, that'd be helpful. OK.