 Thank you all for joining us this afternoon. My name is Julie Brosnan I'm with the Center for Education and Labor at the research think tank organization New America who is hosting this event for us today. So for some context on why we're holding this event today. I will give some background so most of us know that across the world really in the last year our society has seen a boom in labor and union activism not seen in decades. It's teachers in Chicago it's the person handing you your coffee at Starbucks it's john dear auto workers and so many more have seized the moment of the pandemic era labor market to advocate for better wages better conditions and a better quality of life. So but this doesn't stop on the ground continues up in the skies with the hardworking flight attendants who leave their homes regularly to keep us safe on airplanes every single day, even as a virus has raged through our planet. And so while there are stories today of flight attendants advocating for better conditions for themselves in this pandemic era and beyond, which we will touch on. What many may not realize is that decades ago, the stories and battles of flight attendant labor activists not only shaped the industry and career into what it is today, but they really shaped the working world for women everywhere. So the book that is mentioned in the event, the great stewardess rebellion how women launched a workplace revolution at 30,000 feet was published this year it tells the at times unbelievable tale of what flight attendants had to push through and fight for for basic civil treatment and rights on the job. Women once had to be a certain weight, have a certain look be a certain age and certainly have no spouse or children in order to keep their jobs. They could be disciplined for having a stain on their uniform for writing a motorcycle or having a gap in their teeth. It's even after federal government. They passed title nine, it was flight attendant unions that really had to fight tirelessly to make the case that these rules were in fact sexist and applied to them and no longer was legally protected by the Constitution so while they eventually got there. It was an upward battle to say the least and there were many who did not want to see these unions succeed so. The last part may sound familiar and so we are going to talk today about how these stories remind us not only of how far the flight attendant career has come in our culture and as an industry, but how labor union efforts can be the impetus for human progress and protection. So, without further ado, today I have the pleasure of introducing three perfect speakers to detail why and how this happens in the case of flight attendants in the US. So, both history and modern day. So first we have none other than the author herself of the great stewardess rebellion, now McShane will fart, who in addition to being an author and a fantastic storyteller is also a journalist who wrote for the New York Times column carry on. And if you're interested in the women's movement or worker activism and history in any way this books definitely for you by the way it's very well written. Then we have the International President for the Association of flight attendants Sarah Nelson, which is a role that she has served on since 2014. Though she first became a union member in 1996, which when she was hired as a flight attendant for United Airlines. And today she represents 50,000 flight attendants from 17 different airlines. But definitely, not least, we have Johnny Lane, who is a current flight attendant with Delta Airlines. She's based out in New York. She's also on the organizing committee for Delta AFA, which is actively organizing for unionization within the industry is leading most profitable airline Delta Airlines. So, let's go ahead and get into it now we are going to start with you. So this, I did start right away by putting your book right in front of the camera. So, I think the obvious place to start is for you giving us some context and background for why did you decide to write this story or really these stories plural and why you felt it was so important. Hi everybody. I think the idea for the book really became powerful to me when I learned about the working conditions of stewardesses in the 60s and 70s. Before that, I think like many people I thought about the golden age of travel as a very Don Draper and mad men scenario, you know, businessmen, you know, beautiful stewardesses serving them cocktails in first class, maybe slicing roast beef, you know, like an extremely glamorous cosmopolitan sort of scenario. And then when I learned that the flip side of that was maybe the most sexist workplace in America, that these working conditions for women were so difficult as Julie listed earlier. That's when I was like really hooked you know it was a story of the labor movement and the feminist movement to things that I spend a lot of time thinking about. And then to find out that the wins that the flight attendants scored the ones that I detail in my book the battles that they fought had like an lasting impact for all working women in America. And that's something that they hadn't gotten any credit for before I just thought that it was a story that I had to tell. It's incredible I flight attendants wasn't on my list or my radar you're right of one of those industries for for the women's labor movement but it's huge. And it makes a lot of sense, especially after you read the stories and see the advertisements and I won't get into that you got to read the book but I will say right in the introduction of the book. There is a phrase that they lost more often than they won. And that was a phrase that was great warning for reading the book, because it can be really frustrating when you hear what some of these women went through and I, I feel like they must have felt so powerless at times and there's an individual level where people were fired and then their appeals were denied and to the point where individual women were committing suicide and all the way up to the kind of macro level where there were federal hearings and airlines were in all of the efforts left and right and you know so I was hoping you could talk about this theme of losses and first wins and what those apparent losses meant for the story, and maybe the power of the victories that ultimately stem from those losses. I mean you could say that the, the number of losses made the much smaller number of victories that much sweeter but I'm not sure that that's true. You know when the battles of flight attendants were fighting in the 60s and 70s. They were fighting in an environment where a woman still couldn't get a credit card in her own name. So to be a feminist in that time and to fight for working conditions in a job that most people thought of as flying cocktail waitress. It was a real battle and as Julie pointed out, and as I detail in the book, the flight attendants took every possible tack to to win rights as workers they, they went to the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission and they filed stacks and stacks and stacks of complaints. In the court they held hearings, they created, you know, stories in the press that journalists would latch on to, and at many many turns that they were just pulled back in by by things the company would do by things even sometimes their union would do. It was just a real case of one step forward two steps back consistently. When it comes to anything like oh you were fired at the when you turned 32 and when you finally managed overturn that rule the company would sneak in another rule, perhaps a weight limit. So, you know, if you were getting older, you gained a few pounds and you couldn't lose them up. Sorry, job is gone. So it was absolutely a story of many losses but the fact that the flight attendants managed to win so many victories and that these had an impact outside, you know the airplane cabin that they had an impact on on all working women today for me is even more incredible when you consider the environment that that they were fighting in. And I think that has a lot of impact or a lot of resonance with what's happening, you know, today in our country we're, we're suffering a lot of losses at the moment, you know we're, we're losing a lot, but I love to think about, you know the circumstances that my book were up against and the fact that they won through through sheer hard work and solidarity. It gives me hope 100% agree. Yeah, I mean I feel the exact same way. So I couldn't have said it better myself and it is a perfect segue to Sarah if I can go to you. I think she mentioned the landscape today that seems like a good spot for you to talk about what from Nels book or theme of losses versus wins what resonates with you in today's landscape for flight attendants and can you share some similarities or differences from the history that still exists today in the world. I mean, reading Nels book is a little bit like reading your family history it is so familiar. I learned by doing, I was hired at United Airlines in 1996 and, and frankly, I only applied for the job because flight attendants flight attendants unions had just beat back smoking in the workplace. Otherwise, three years earlier, we finally beat back the wait restrictions and made it illegal for airlines to have to force us to get on a scale before we come to work. So these were all conditions that were laid out for me and someone described the contents of the United Airlines contracts did not put it in those terms, but talked about the pay and benefits and everything. And that is what encouraged me to go do the job. So I, I learned very much by, by getting involved in the union early on, and I should say my very first day on the job. I walked into the office and there was already an argument between the two senior flight attendants that I was going to be working with I was assigned to this very senior trip. The flight attendants have between 35 and 40 years seniority between them. So in 1996, think about when they started really in the core of what Nels is describing and what she just described and what they had been through. And they also had very raspy voices because they had been working through a period where they had secondhand smoke in their workplace the entire time, but they, they had this fight with the supervisor, and they won. But they realized that this may be a little jarring for this brand new flight attendant on her first day that there had been this conflict in the office, even before we started flying. So one of them pulled me aside, and in an attempt to help said to me. Management thinks of us as their wives or their mistresses, and in either case they hold us in contempt. And I'm, whoa, that's a lot to take in at 23 fresh out of company training. But which what she said next was comforting. She said, your only place of worth is with your fellow flying partners. And if we stick together you wear your union pin. There's nothing we can't accomplish. And so there was that there was that hook of hope for me. And also this message of solidarity that felt felt good and felt like something that I wanted to be a part of right away. And it wasn't until later, and actually until I became very much more involved in the union that I understood just how right she was about the level of contempt that was held for flight attendant spy management, a very sexist level of contempt. And, and all of the objectification that went on with flight attendants that I, I had to get involved in right away in my union work fighting fighting fighting every single day, just to be able to get to the table just to be able to get recognized and and understanding that the women who fought before me gave me this mentorship in that space to say that no one's going to give you a space of the table. We're going to do that together. We're always going to fight together. And so I always had hope, because we had this women led union, this flight attendant only union which, which frankly is sort of anathema to the idea of the labor movement of one big union that's working together. But it was these women who fought for APFA, and also if a breaking away from male dominated unions in both cases, to have our own space, our own ability to fight forward and demand that flight attendants be heard and demand that our, our careers be defined. And I really picked up right at the point where they were the people who came before me had turned what had been a job that was not only heavy discrimination, but objectified and used to take all airline tickets into a career. And we had to take it forward but absolutely, I mean, it was, it's always a slug to just get to the table get recognized fight for through all the discrimination that would say that your voice doesn't matter and we were marginalized, but we had hope and we had power, because women came together and, and just demanded to get results. And shout out to Pat Gibbs, who is the number one heroine in the book. And I believe is watching right now. And thanks to Pat and all of her contemporaries who made it this possible for us to have this career today. 100% if you if you read the book, you will know why that is very cool. And, and Sarah, thank you for like kind of giving the context of, of, you know, because the book is, you know, 60s and 70s, and then it was super helpful to kind of hear it come into the more modern day. And if we're looking a little bit, even further in the future, I would love to hear what you would say the ideal future of flight attendant career and labor looks like, like what's the ultimate vision for this story, and how it will continue. So the, the traditionally in the labor movement, when, first of all, women were not welcome into the workplace. There was just no space for us. And we fought even to make this career even to make it possible for flights has to be on planes but we fought to get into the workplace and a lot of places and ultimately what happened was some ground was seated for women, but jobs were defined as mostly a woman's job. You know, teachers, nurses, flight attendants, telephone operators. These were traditionally the jobs that women were able to do but because they were defined as women's work. And even the textile industry sort of moving in that way to once it was defined as women's work it was defined as something of lesser value. So those jobs traditionally have been paid less. It has been very hard to move forward on those jobs they're typically seen as jobs that are very connected to the public very caring emotional labor. And so it has been very hard to push forward and actually get the value of our work there. But if any worker is mistreated, every worker everywhere can be mistreated. And that is really something that has to be taken into the heart of the labor movement. So as we push forward and we are actually seen as late leaders today, people are looking to flight attendants as leaders today. And that is because we have taken very strong stance we took very strong stand against the government shutdown. And I believe, you know, we're played a critical role in ending that 35 day longest government shutdown in history. We had a very strong role in how the relief would be defined in COVID relief so that that would be a worker's first package in aviation we had hoped would be duplicated for every other industry. But we led the way on that. And people are really looking to us for leadership the other thing that I would say is thanks to all the women who launched the me to movement, because that was a moment where not only were we able to take the action that we fought hard to win the right to have minimum staffing on the airplane so they can planes cannot take off with pilots but they also cannot take off without without flight attendants. And so we fought for our place in this industry, but with the me to movement, it was a moment where we could actually talk about what it's really like on the job, what that sexism has been like. I called out airline management and said it is time once and for all for you to denounce this industry's sexist past to hold up flight attendants as safety professionals, and to declare that there's zero tolerance for this kind of behavior in the workplace. And I have to say that was a moment where for the first time we were actually able to really tell our stories and go beyond what I experienced on that first day on the job, where the flight attendant told me that no one was ever going to have our backs and never going to listen to us or make space for us but we could do that together we could make space together, and suddenly this opened up for us to be really seen as leaders and and to move away and get respect in our own right for the work that we do. And so I think at this point we fly to every corner of the earth when some people can only dream of crossing borders today. We have access more access to the public than almost anyone. You know something happens on the plane when there's a noise on the plane the public turns to us and looks to us for leadership. And I think that that's a great metaphor for where we are actually in society and how we actually can tell the story of women today, and what it means to be working women who are flying from state to state, who when they touch down in certain states, they have different rights today. And that's that's simply not acceptable. It's not acceptable that even before the decision on Dodd, that when we land in this country, we step off a plane that doesn't recognize us in this country as equal, done with that. So flight attendants have a responsibility today to show the rest of working people who are saying that they're very interested in being in a union but maybe don't see themselves there because they've always seen union members as someone with a hard hat and a tool built that we can actually show people that it's anyone who works, who can join a union, build that power in their workplace, take on capitalism, and actually build an inclusive society that works in a democracy that is also a capitalism but with checks on it, because working people are able to hold that capital accountable and bring some of the profits back to all of us. I think flight attendants have that that leadership role right now that we can promote forward. And we have a tremendous responsibility to do that and we have a tremendous opportunity to do that. And we're going to be able to have in greater footing when Delta flight attendants join our union to just to capture that so the vision is isn't just, you know, like kind of insular, insular airline thing like you when you when I hear you talk it's like it's, it's everything it's everyone it's all labor movements it's it's kind of society and culture. That's where you hope the role in the movement is going 100% Julie and just to take on the issue of health care. We spend three quarters of our time at the table fighting on for health care in our contracts just to hang on to what we negotiated decades ago. This is slipping away further and further because for profit health care companies have a chokehold on that industry. And the only way that's going to change is if we organize in the 10s of millions right now flight attendants have to lead on that. So I can't even take on the issues that my members care about if I'm not backing up Starbucks workers and Amazon workers and any worker who's looking for a union right now because we have to have the ability to tackle our management with these issues across the board and then go with management with that capital to take on the for profit health care companies, because no individual company is willing to take on those for profit health care companies. But if we demand that as labor across the board, hold all of our companies accountable, and we do that together, we can actually win on that issue and that's a big issue that my members care about very much. And I can't even begin to take it on if I don't support other workers organizing right now. Yeah, thank you for capturing on those are all great examples of just like, like when I said in my opening remarks about how labor unions, those work those efforts can be an impetus for human progress and protection. And you, you purpose or accidentally like really captured that and I appreciate it. Thank you. Johnny, I definitely want to get to you, because I think you ultimately sit in the most important part of kind of this modern stories for flight attendants because you're the one who's living it and feeling the effects like acutely in your life like from the background and the history and details that, you know, now lays out up to kind of the segue into the modern day that Sarah laid out so I was wondering and hoping you could share any stories that capture why either those book or Sarah's kind of vision are important for you and your colleagues at Delta or elsewhere. Absolutely. Thank you so much for giving me this opportunity and I want to thank now. The stories in the book were incredibly validating for what I and many of my colleagues have experienced and I felt a lot of kinship with Pat Gibbs, especially when she said that equating being a good stewardess she equated that to being a good person. And at Delta Airlines we kind of feel that deep down and when you start to push back on the company you started to question who you are as a person who you are as a woman. If you're questioning these values, because we're, you know, lots of airlines not just my own but push on these value based ideals that they want for their employees to embody so. Yeah when I first started I was like oh my gosh you know I'm trying to form a union I'm pushing back on my company, who does that make me, and then becoming a part of this labor movement as a whole. It just brought so much more color to what I was experiencing that I wasn't a bad person that these conversations are important to have, and that even though that, especially again once in the book, things that like flight attendants especially black flight attendants went through, and the past we're still experiencing, and that we just can't let those. Those things stand like the black flight attendants. It almost brought me to tears when they were talking about their afros. And that's something that I experienced fairly recently not too long ago. My hair was in a shorter afro I was getting ready for a trip, putting on my makeup and then another younger flight attendant I knew her she was more junior to me, wearing a similar hairstyle. She came up to me and she said johnny has anyone approached you about your hair. All right. Why would anyone approach me about my hair what are you talking about. Well, a manager came to me and said someone else, another flight attendant claimed that her hair was out of compliance and she was wondering if someone said the same thing to me. And I was like, Oh my gosh, we are still dealing with this in 2020 something. These fights are still going on and also the issue with the pantyhose we're still discussing flight attendants black flight attendants flight attendants of color, pushing back on flesh tone pantyhose because as a whole it's hard for us to find our skin tone. But we are continuing to fight that battle and it's important that I be a part of this conversation, and this fight to make sure that our voices are heard, not just black women, but other marginalized communities, and the work that we're doing is to bring those voices to the front. I'm so happy to be working with Sarah because she sees the vision, and the big picture that it's not just flight attendants becoming a part of the labor movement, it's all of us making sure that we can fight for representation and all facets of our workplace as a whole, like how can we fight for certain things if we don't stand for our LGBTQIA workers in other industries, or in our own workplace are non gender conforming flight attendants who have to struggle between if they want to wear the men's uniform and the women's uniform. These issues that are happening on the world stage are also happening at a micro level at Delta Airlines and we're feeling that so much so I feel like it's just so important that I do this and that I bring my colleagues a lot because we've got so much more to contribute so much and we're happy to be standing with the workforce labor movement as a whole. This has never happened before Delta flight attendants before we organized on our own, and it was hard but now we're saying hey world please see us please recognize us. That's why this representation and this vision is so important to our organizing efforts. It's funny, so Johnny remind me when we talked in the book that it delta is mentioned in this in this kind of capacity you're talking about right you remember or now I was the line. I'll ask you to repeat it if you remember not the line specifically but what do you remember so you can capture it better than me. Yes, there were several fights and cases going on and now mentioned you know certain airlines and the progress that they made and the help that they have from their union but also there'd be a short line of adult flight attendants they didn't have a union so they were on their own. And that was noticeable throughout the book. Our absence. was intentional because it highlighted how we've always been excluded because of our values Delta historically Southern conservative company and historically anti union. And so we've not been a part of the conversation before but now we are and it's making a huge difference. Yeah, yeah so I'd love to give you an opportunity to talk a bit more about that. Um, so can you give us a little bit of background on exactly what Delta flight attendants are thinking about or working towards and tell us about the efforts you and your colleagues are putting your focus on to get there. Yes, we are, of course, working towards unionizing over 22,000 flight attendants currently across the country and several different bases. And I just wanted to give you all an idea of the scope of what we're doing this will be one of the largest organizing efforts in modern labor and history. So it's a seems like an insurmountable task but we're ready to tackle it head on and some of the things that we're doing is we are we've got something that we call visibility where we sit in our flight attendant lounges and we let people know that the other flight attendants that were organizing and that's with 22,000 flight attendants it's hard to reach everyone of course so we're trying to make sure that we talk to each person. Find out what's important to them and it's not just about talking to them it's also about reclaiming our space and getting over that fear of getting in trouble for unionizing that hey this is our right. This is our space and we're here to do this and also I'm speaking to something else that we've never done before being part of the conversation. We're getting the public involved. We're talking to other people in other unions and other workplaces that are unionizing like Starbucks we're finding so much solidarity across the labor movement and I think Sarah for that that is new to our campaign and it's just changed the way that everyone sees what we're doing every how everyone sees us that we're you know safety professionals that we're working hard toward something much like in the book. Women fought hard to be seen as not just sex objects are cocktail waitresses that were safety professionals that were workers that were part of this labor movement so talking to other workers across industries talking to the public talking to our passengers who are actually rooting us on who are saying hey you know go you guys you know what we hope you get your union because they see how hard we work especially during the pandemic. When we were fighting for to have gloves and mask and to be able to wear them on the airplane. It wasn't just about our safety but we care about our passengers as well if we unionize and take care of us we're able to take care of the passengers because that's absolutely want what we want to do. So yeah we're on the ground we are working hard and just trying to bring awareness to our work group and the public and we value so much support that everyone's been giving us so yeah it's hard work but it's fun we thank you guys for you know allowing us to speak and tell our story. You know Julie I think that Nell's book is extraordinary in this moment for so many reasons I mean I love it because of course directly related to the work that I do but I think it's so instructional for where we are in this moment because there are so many social issues to take on and groups that have been formed specifically to take on those social issues this is something that now addresses in the book. And but the power is in the unions and the lasting lock in and the ability to make improvements in laws, whether that's you know just a legally binding contract or a change in legislation that changes the overall rights for people or the benefits or access to benefits and the enforcement of that contract and enforcement of those laws. We fought hard for example for whistleblower protection so that we can call out safety issues in the work. If you don't have a union to back you up as a worker when you are whistleblower, you may have those laws that protect you, but you may have to hire a private attorney and fight for many years because the the companies can retaliate against you and hope to just wait you out as a worker and and drown you out in in legal bills. So if there's not a union there to protect that and protect all the gains that we've made it can just get washed away and what is described so perfectly in the book is the realization and the recognition of these activists who were feminists who were pushing forward and against sexism, but who understood that the real power was taking on capital was taking on money and the corporate elite in a capitalist society so that we can put them in check hold them accountable. And that's where our power lies to make real difference a real difference. And that's the connection that needs to be made for the public today. And it's something that flight attendants it's a message that flight attendants can give to the public and help them understand. No, this is how you lock in the gains this is how you have real power this is how you come together and actually make it count and make it stick. And it is so beautifully told but it's it's a fight that is never ending. And it continues on today. And if we organize in the tens of millions right now, we can lock that in and lock in real changes and lock in civic engagement and and lock in our democracy. And that's why this book is so, so instructional of course for every flight attendant out there and we're actually going to buy a big bulk from now and make her arm sore from signing books, because this needs to get into hands of all of our activists and all of our staff and but it's instructional for anyone who wants to form a union today and why they should, and who, who those union members are. And the other thing that she calls out so well in the book is that flight attendants are a great ambassador for the labor movement, because we can move in and out of a lot of spaces that other people can get into and to be at tables easily. And, and we also people look to us for that leadership so we're already built in in a space to be able to share this message and to be able to show a different view of who union members are and how power is built. Yeah, thanks for that for that big the context and bringing it all back that's super helpful and johnny thank you so much as well for for for sharing a little bit about what you're trying to do and work on and think about on the ground. I want to, before I go to questions that I'm going to open up to the three of you or ask each of you to kind of answer, I will make a call to the audience that now is your time to put your questions in the chat on your right side of your screen. Or start percolating over what you might want to ask now Sarah or johnny take those there I am seeing them. And I will use this time, while you guys, my panelists are chatting to then let you guys share them and then we will take those questions when we're done so first question for each of you to answer and we'll we'll go in order for to keep it consistent, but I want to let each of you have a chance to answer about it's either about the history or the modern day story but what's something that you wish the broader public would understand about the flight attendant journey and take away with them as a lesson. So now I want you to have a chance to answer this because I know Sarah is kind of already answered this I apologize Sarah but you have another answer Sarah please do but now I want you to have a chance to share what you wish people to take away. So there's two things if I can have to one is the wider impact of their actions, like I mentioned earlier on the workplace in America and if you're a working woman in America, you can thank the flight attendants for so many of the rights you have right now. And the second one I think speaks a little bit to Sarah's point about how you know we, there's, there's tens of millions of people right now in America who are who are ready to fight for change. And in the book in my story like there are so many ups and downs there are so many differences of opinions. There are so many like smaller battles being fought. And I think we can see that on the left today you know we're we're divided we have different ideas about how to go about winning we have a lot of conflict, but the lesson we could take from those flight attendants is that, you know, they put the goal for everybody above all their inner other conflict and they pursued that goal. And I think if we follow their example, and we keep our eyes on the prize and as Sarah says we do it together, like, there's nothing we can't get done. Yes. So, um, you know, I, the book doesn't in a beautiful job of talking about all of the little things that flight attendants have had to fight through. So, I just want to give this example. And in the bankruptcies that followed 911, we had big battles, we had battles on cuts to our pay cuts to our health care retiree health care pensions cuts to all of the ways that we had fought for flexibility on the job. And actually our very first contract in 1946 that United Airlines had an eight hour day, along with the eight hour day that was five for then that has essentially been completely eroded since then with all the productivity changes that's been taken away from the American worker. So we have these big battles to fight. But in the middle of the United Airlines bankruptcy. But oftentimes individual workers will look inward and and and look to the things that they can, they can directly deal with themselves because some of these big ideas. That's really hard for an individual person to take on and even imagine that they could have an impact. It's only through the unions and helping people understand their power and bringing people together that that you can generate that power. And as we were fighting to try to save our pensions the United Airlines bankruptcy, the emails that I kept getting as the communication chair who was getting all the responses to all of our communications that were going out to the union was the company is telling me I can't wear comfortable shoes. And, and, and this is a major issue for flight of sense I mean they had major medical problems because early on the, the corporations would hand them shoes pumps with three inch heels and everyone had to sit where the same shoes were going to destroy everyone's feet and their knees and their hips and everything else. So, so this is this was a major occupational issue. We had already made advancements on this issue but you still couldn't wear shoes that for example nurses would wear all day long people who are in their feet and so relatively comparable profession. We were hearing about this and I kept thinking my God they're putting the airplanes together with duct tape, just wear the damn shoes and tell the supervisors screw you and get on the picket line for our pensions like that's what I'm thinking in my head. But I didn't say it. And we listened to that issue we put together a petition we fought on the shoes we won we won the right in the middle of the bankruptcy to wear the comfortable shoes okay. And, and then we gained, first of all, these flight of sense who are feeling completely beaten down and unempowered because they're in this bankruptcy is incredibly, incredibly disheartening because the company has so much power in that situation. And they felt like, okay, we have a win now. And our union is listening to us. These were the individual issues that we cared about that were, you know, niche issues in in our space, but, but we can win and and when we come together we can do that. And then directly translated into a huge fight for our pensions where ultimately, even with the White House the Congress and the court stacked against us. Ultimately our pensions were terminated, but we generated enough power to more than double what united wanted because we fought together. And, and we were able, as, as that flight attendant told me on the first day, we stick together there's nothing we can't accomplish. So I think it's, it's really important for people to understand that the unique issues that happen in the workplace and the issues that unions can take on can translate into big into taking on big issues because people start to learn their power they start to learn that they can make a change. They make a change that in things that matter to them and their individual lives right now, and then they can relate to the bigger fights that we can take on together. It's kind of a reminder of the theme of what the power of the winds the few wins as they may be over the the losses. So thank you for that. Johnny, definitely let us know what you think people what you wish people take away. Absolutely and continuing with that same vein. And with the small victories of piling up is that you, you don't quit after a loss, and then you don't stop after a win you just keep going and going and going until those small victories just stack up, and they become big wins, going back to our issue with the afros being not even being accepted in the workplace to now we're able to wear our natural hair in the workplace. However, in our uniform standards, it can't be wider than the width of our shoulders. So, so here we are. We, we went a little bit. We lost something. But now you know we know that we still need to push forward we're not going to stop there. So once that we're able to wear our natural hair, the way it grows out of our head. Maybe that person who who wears a hijab, they will be they will feel empowered to apply to the airlines and be able to wear their hijab at work. You know, it's just taking those little things and stacking them on top of each other. And that just speaks to the larger work that we're doing within the labor movement. As a whole, companies like Chipotle, they closed the store when they found out their workers were you unionizing that may that may be a hit, taking a loss but guess what the public knows, we're standing behind them, and we're not going to eat there anymore. So, yeah, no, y'all don't get your up read somewhere else. But again, it's just that resilience, that persistence, the perseverance that was pervasive throughout the book. It's just something that we have to carry on throughout our fights with, with our companies with unionization and the larger labor movement and what's going on in the country as a whole, like we experienced some experienced a lot of losses. In the past few weeks, but we're not going to stop there we're going to take those and use that to propel us forward to bring more energy and to fight whatever comes our way. I really want to get on a t shirt. Don't stop after one win or quit after one loss is feel like it's all encompassing for life right now. Thank you for that Johnny. So the second question for all three of you, if you'd like to answer is, comes from a personal view that I believe we should always end the best we can with with some sort of message or feeling of hope. And as each of you if there is a particular win or success from the flight attendants journey or beyond that resonates with you most and gives you motivation or that hopeful reminder that the work is worth it you know we did hear a couple here about like the shoes and the hair and you know but there is there more that you'd like to share once that really stick with you from the from the book from life that that leaves us with this feeling of like that Johnny's already percolating up for me I appreciate of of hope and motivation going forward. The, the reminder I get every time I get on an airplane, when I see a flight attendant who's over the age of 35 is that like that is directly due to the women I you know in my book who who fought for that and that, like without them, you know, you turn 32, or you turn with some generous airlines and like that's it you were fired you were you were gone. So every time I see a flight attendant who, you know, as kids or is wearing a wedding ring or, you know, is over the age of 35, I am reminded of those victories that they won back then that you know we're still enjoying today. Well, I think that we should recognize that we even thought for the right of men to have the same rights as women on the job. So say you're welcome guys. Our unions started out as white women unions, and we had incredible sexism to fight her. But what we built what were unions that recognize that we couldn't allow discrimination to exist anywhere. And we all had to take that personally because if the company could, you know, discriminated against us or say who we can spend our Saturday night with they sure as hell can say who every where everyone can spend their Saturday night. And so the women who thought to build this union made space for us to recognize where we needed to push forward still. And I'm incredibly proud of the Delta campaign that's running right now because in the past we didn't necessarily exude a picture of a union that understood the very different. Very different subsets of marginalized workers within our space. We fought hard to make this a job that anyone with the heart of a flight can have, but we didn't necessarily put forward an example that everyone was welcome to take part in our union. And we have worked, but but we were taught that way by the people who formed the union. And so we've had to work very intentionally to invite anyone from any background to come and be a leader to come and be an activist in our union. And, and the Delta campaign is right this time, and this year is really representative of that. It is, it is much more representative of the entire workforce. And I think that that gives us a space to push forward and what I have heard from people on the campaign is that they were, they were walking in the, in the terminal. Before we launched the campaign and feeling a heaviness and a pressure and a fear that that could be the day that some passenger writes a letter to Delta and their job is gone. And when we launched that campaign and we were there and we were out on social media and we were walking there joyously in that workspace and showing that you can build power in this workspace to and we are here and we have your backs. There were a lot of messages from flies who said that changed their lives, changed their lives, they wanted to get involved right away they went to an organizing session next week they had never voted in their lives they registered to vote for that next week. And they suddenly felt like they had hope that they could change their conditions, they had a way to fight forward. So there's a lot of stories that I could tell about how we saved whole families because flight attendants often will couple up together. And so we went through the payroll support program that was workers first be that that we push forward through covered relief the biggest disaster aviation has ever faced all these families were saved and their children were saved and all I could tell a lot of stories like that. The idea of someone finding their own power and not walking around hurt and marginalized and feeling like that at any moment the shoe could drop, and their lives could be destroyed, and, and helping them find hope and empowerment in a place where they can fight forward and actually push through all of that and and come into their own and feel like they have power in their own individual right. That is the thing that is the most hopeful for me that is the thing that I have seen that inspires me the most. And that is, that is really what propels me forward to do this and how we're going to change the world because people believe that we can change it we can. I try to do this without without crying myself because I'm thinking of my mom who's a retired teacher of over 35 years and she pinned me when I got hired as a flight attendant over 14 years ago. And she said, she told me she always wanted to be a flight attendant but being a black woman in the south. That was not an opportunity that was for her. I'm thinking of all the women who came before me. In the industry as well Pat Tommy Bobby everyone you mentioned in the book. Who stacked up those wins so that I could do this here today so that I could be a flight attendant and and fight for workers, not just for myself but for those flight attendants who are going to come years after me, and who are going to be able to experience all the good things about the job and the things that we fought for and that we're going to continue to fight for so I just want to thank. I think all of you for the work that you've done it's enabled me to be able to do this and I just, I hope that I'm able to impact the industry. And my work group, the way that you all have changed mine, thank you. And that's it. I don't know how we're going to end with audience q amp a after after moving things like that but maybe it will help us like yeah. We do have some questions here to help kind of wrap bring it bring it to what the audience is curious and left wondering. And I'm not sure where to start I think I think I will start with with two questions that are similar in the sense that people want updates they want to know like what how they can find out like what is happening what's going to come what how it's going. And the examples in particular were like the issue of unruly passengers which we all know flight attendants were the front lines of that this whole time, where the anti mask sentiment was rampant right in our culture. So there was a question about updates or progress on on fights for that whether it's a no fly list or otherwise. So how do we find updates or progress for the for Delta flight attendants and the union and what's going to happen so I don't know if Sarah you want to take one or both of those or yeah, yeah. Well, first of all, if you want to find out about the Delta campaign go to delta a f a dot org. You can also follow on Twitter at delta a f a or on Instagram at a f a delta. Just flip it. And, but at delta a f a dot org if you're a passenger you can actually sign up to get a kit to help with the campaign while you're traveling and to be supportive, and we invite everyone to do that. I want to be really clear that under the Railway Labor Act, the big job that Johnny was talking about that they have to do is to get more than half of their work group to sign physical cards within a year in order to qualify even for an election. And that's hard with a mobile workforce flying all over the place to actually get people to do that. We know from from our activity and our assessments and our polling that we already have the support at delta for the union. We have to show our work with these cards and so we need some help to spread the word on that and we can get you a packet that you can fly with to help us do that. No, it'd be great. In terms of how it's going with unruly passengers we have a bill to put people on a no fly list who have acted out who have been found guilty, either by through an investigation and find by the f a a or through a criminal prosecution. And so it's very clear about how someone would get on the list on very transparent. And actually that's even more transparent than today with individual airlines that can just ban someone from flying, but they don't have to be transparent about who's on that list how you get on it how you get off the list all of those things so we would actually protect civil liberties more to have this be a federally maintained list that is shared then among airlines and maintained by the government and something that we can also audit and make sure it continues to be fair and is not discriminatory towards anyone. And so we would hope that you could support that bill. There are, ironically, we have a no fly list for terrorists and the very people who pushed for that and who would be the first to sign up for it and wave it as with the patriotic flag. Like Ted Cruz are the people who are against this other list because suddenly they think that the people that they are trying to promote who want to stomp on other people's rights are the ones who are going to get kicked off the plane somebody might be right. So, so anyway, so we have a lot of work to do to get that through. What I would say is that thank goodness, President Biden made this a priority to step up on the prosecutions and gave that instruction to Mary Carlin, and the DOJ made this a priority. It takes time to go through the prosecution process. We are starting to get people who are landing in jail because of the way that they have acted. And so whenever that happens, we've seen this in the past and we fought when we fought for the statute that actually says you can't act like this on a plane that was our union that fought for that and won that way back in 2000. And right after that when people started going to jail we saw those events go down when they were still going up around the world. So we're already starting to see this time around with these prosecutions and these sentencing that we're starting to see people going, well, we got to take this seriously and some of those events have gone down on the plane. We have a lot more work to do. The work of flight attendants is very, very hard today. There was a handful of people who make this very difficult. You know, I just was talking to Comedy Central to the Daily Show and they said we should put all of them on one plane together and they can just have a brawl plane, which is funny. But they make life hell for everybody else. And so one thing I want to leave everyone with that flight attendancy is that actually we are not a divided society. We see everyone from all kinds of backgrounds come on our plane. All kinds of humanity jammed in together and you would think that that is a recipe for a complete disaster every single time. And the reality is that flight attendants do a great job of de-escalation. They do a great job of leading people through a peaceful process. But most people come to the door of our plane with a desire for a safe and eventful flight. And we have to lift that up and recognize that this society actually craves solidarity. And we know that as flight attendants. So as much as we will report to you that we still need your help and we need you to be helpers on the plane, put your phone down, recognize us when you come on board, say hello, make that eye contact, let us know that we have someone who has our back on this flight. That's very helpful. But I also want you to know that what we actually experience is that society is much more united than anyone would have us believe. And that we actually see some of the best in the humanity on our planes too. And we want to report that out too and not let that get lost in the mix here. There's way more people who want to do good, who want to come together, who want to join together and make sure that everyone has a safe and eventful flight than there are people who want to disturb it. And I've said that better and I would end there just because that's also like a feeling of hope and I'm a big fan. And that's a great message. But we have a question from Pat. So I of course have to share that. So it's a labor specific question so for the labor folks on our audience. This is definitely for you. So she asked Sarah, should we as female union leaders past and present, take on remaining obstacles within the AFL CIO and I'm curious if you have thoughts on that. Yeah, lots of thoughts on that. Two minutes worth of thoughts. Okay, absolutely we have to fight through that. We cannot be irrelevant as a labor movement and I think that, you know, when you have, when you allow this system to continue to be led by people who have been in the positions for a very long time been removed from the workforce for a very long time, not necessarily had to struggle through the same things that we have had to struggle through as women workers women leaders within the labor movement that there can be incredible inertia which I think is is where we are. And we could really, I mean 13 million union members is nothing to sneeze at, and activating those 13 million union members to talk about why they love their union and and engage in the communities in that way is an incredible opportunity for us to, you know, turn on. And I think that what we have to do is we have to continue to challenge. You know, basically, the, the white men who are still kind of in charge. We need to abolish women's committees are issues are not side issues women's issues or workers issues. We need to bring those central. We need to bring issues from every marginalized community central to the labor movement. We need to lift up who labor really is. And so yes we need to challenge that every single day but we also need to challenge that not just by running into rooms and telling everyone how they're doing it wrong, but leading by getting results. So, you know, I have work to do as a union leader to show how you can get results. When you're empowering people and making this a worker led movement, where we continue to organize where we continue to engage people what we continue to look for people who are not being represented today and lifting them up as leaders and encouraging them to get involved. So yes, yes, Pat. We still have work to do and we still have a lot of challenges to take on. And, you know, I, I tell people all the time that I didn't really experience what sexism was until I became a union president. And I have to say the closer that you get to the center of power, where people are making decisions the more that you see how much of a sexist world we still live in. And it is, it is something that I'm not willing to accept. And we have to keep challenging it every day. And what I just said to a group of women workers at USCW is do not fall into the trap of coming together to support each other and then taking all of the issues that we believe are women's issues into a women's committee. Don't do it. Don't fall into that trap, because then it can be set aside and marginalized. Keep pushing those issues to the center of what the labor movement is talking about and and make the labor movement come to the place of getting results on those issues because every time we do that. We're going to give someone a little bit more space to lead a little bit more space to step into a leadership role, because they're able to get to childcare that they need in order to do the union work for example. So yes, I mean we we we got to keep challenging, but we got to keep challenging by making specific demands defining the problems and getting results for the marginalized workers so that they can lead and so that we can show that this is a space for them to. Well thank you so much to all three of you thank you to people who stuck around till 402. I love it. And thank you for the hard work, any and all of you are doing every day is just trying to make the world a better place which is what this feels like so much more than I expected. And I really appreciate it so thank you all for joining. Thank you to our panelists have a wonderful. Bye nice book. And please buy the book there is a button here on the page, but you can also find it on all your channels that you need to. So all right. Thank you very much.