 Thank you for coming to tonight. We are going to begin the town of Essex Select Board meeting for July 15th in just a moment We usually start with the Pledge of Allegiance, but we don't have a flag in the room. So we're going to wing it Everyone's going to remember the flat that the Pledge of Allegiance, but we don't have a flag I pledge allegiance to the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all Thank you Child 17 for always coming to the rescue Okay, our second order of business. Are there any agenda additions or changes, Evan? I have two items to add to business item 5B, which is the firearms ordinance. It's a revised map, which you have in front of you and some Change language to the ordinance that was in your packet. I heard a reminder that some of the buffer zone around some of the parks have been removed So this is updated language to capture that Craig, thank you for making that adjustment. We had noticed that, so I'm glad it's been attended to. Were there any other agenda additions or changes? No I move that we modify the agenda to include these two items, the map and the updated ordinance language to business item 5B Is there a second? Second All in favor, please signify by saying aye Aye Opposed? Thank you All right, we're going to move on to the public to be heard This is a portion of the meeting when you can speak to the board about business that is not currently on the agenda If anybody has something to say that is not on the agenda, please feel free to stand up and speak Yes ma'am Please come to the mic and give us your name Yes, my name is Patty Davis from nine hillside circle I'm the one that moved here three years ago because of Saxon Hill Road, the public road with a nice big fat no shooting zone sign Patty, excuse me, but the firearms ordinance is on the agenda Yes The portion of the agenda is for things that are not on the agenda Yeah, this is not on the agenda Okay It has to do with statute 19304A Oh, sorry And it has to do with I know that the select board hires the town manager, the planning commission, you know, zoning people I know that's your job My feeling is I feel that the town elected select board does hire the town manager But unfortunately I don't feel that the town manager is performing the duties prescribed by the town charter Regarding title 19 Highway 304, specifically A I have something I can submit to you so I don't take too much time that talks about the powers of and the duties of the select board regarding public class three roads in the town of Essex And I have seven statutes I have to substantiate my claim and I'm more than willing to give them to you so you don't have to listen to me rattled them up It would be great if you could provide us with a written copy And I feel that, you know, that our constitutional right article 18, all the people of Essex, Essex and Essex Junction have a right to make the select board and our town manager accountable to the people of Essex And we came here to recreate and we're not going to stand for having a sign taken down he had no right to take down And I have it substantiated that the town commissioners Dennis Lutz specifically offered in the capital plan March of 2013 When the sign had to be replaced at that time it was replaced 9 13 2013 because it was faded had been up for 20 years So it's not like somebody just put it up on a whim and I have the purchase order documentation here and how much it costs 51 50 Thank you please feel free to submit your documentation so we can all see it Thanks Patty Is there anyone else in the audience who wishes to speak on items that are not on the agenda Okay, thank you We will move forward now to the first order of business first class liquor license approval the select board will act as the board of liquor control For out bev ink doing business as the mad taco with outside consumption permit They are here Hello, thank you for being here And board members do you have any questions or comments regarding their application or materials I do On page three of the application near the top where it talks about the liquor control licensee education seminar The date that's listed for it is July 19 2015 but the documentation that was supplied shows a certificate that says July 19 2000 I'm sorry says 2015 but the documentation of the certificate says 2017 They're good for two years valid and my business partner and I are both current with the DLC for the next two years We just extended another seminar Yeah, I'm aware that they're they're two years, but I just want to yes And it's still in compliance because it doesn't stop until the 19th and today's the 15th But it would be good to make sure that last week we both updated okay super those are both current with the DLC for another two years Okay, great. Thank you Greg did you have something we can update the application form to capture that and if we can get Please update the updated certificate Does anybody else have any comments or questions about the application? Okay, hearing none. Does anyone have any questions for the applicant? All right Then hearing none I will accept a motion Andy Move that the select board approve the first class liquor license for Out bev incorporated doing business as the mad taco at 21 sx ways suite 213 with outdoor consumption permit Well second that Any all those in favor, please say aye. Aye Aye Opposed Okay We are all set with that to approve that license and I just want to give our standard admonition to Preveyors of alcohol the select board takes the issuance of liquor licenses very seriously as should area establishments who serve alcohol We expect you not to serve alcohol to minors nor anyone who is obviously inebriated Thank you for doing business in sx, and we wish you a very successful year Should I turn that paperwork to I bring it by the town office absolutely town clerk's office, please I'll be back up later this week. I'll bring it back up Thank you Okay, and a little bit of housekeeping If you have your phone on you could you please turn it to vibrate and also if anyone needs to use the restroom you go through those Double doors walk through the big auditorium, and then there's a hallway with restrooms right over there By the concession stand where you usually go during the quilt show All right, our next order of business is the is 5b pass the revised fire arms ordinance And just so everyone knows the word pass is Formality that we needed to put on the agenda according to statute that is how we need to state what we're doing It's not a foregone conclusion that we're passing anything, but that is the way the language was written on the agenda So I just want to let everyone know that and I'm going to take a few moments to review where we've been and talk about what we're going to do this evening So bear with me. This is for folks who you may have heard this already, but there's some folks in the room I don't think I've been to these kinds of meetings before so just an update so you know what to expect This is a continuation of a select board discussion considering changes to the town of Essex firearms discharge ordinance Tonight the select board will discuss and deliberate a fully amended version of the ordinance And if you don't have a copy there are copies. Are there any copies left on the back table? I'm not sure I saw that you would put there. Hopefully there's some copies left on the back table After we have our Discussion at the select board we will open the floor to public comments and there'll be more on that in just a moment After the public comment period I will bring the discussion back to the select board table to get a sense of the board Regarding all the changes to the firearms discharge ordinance The board may then vote on passing the amended ordinance Everybody clear on the steps that we're going to take this evening So what we've done so far? This has been a year-long process and the select board has received a lot of input from many sources We have heard from hundreds of residents at public forums online forums and multiple meetings and have received and read Volumes of opinion information resources and concerns from all kinds of people We also have the 2009 report from the firearms task force and Recommendations from three different Essex police chiefs as well as legal opinions from the town attorney Passions and emotions run deep in the community on this topic We recognize the difficult nature of this discussion and we remind everyone here tonight and watching on TV and online That it's the select board's responsibility to improve the safety of the entire town of Essex While also preserving the quality of life traditions and freedoms that our residents enjoy All right Here are some here's a summary of some of the work done so far and At our last meeting we discussed shooting ranges So this is primarily about that by Vermont statute existing shooting ranges Established before 2006 are not subject to any new regulations. The board may decide to implement At the November 5th, 2018 meeting the select board began discussing the firearms discharge ordinance in relation to sports shooting ranges The board discussed and the public provided feedback on a proposed shooting range registration process and tended to identify existing ranges and establish basic safety precautions At our July 15th meet Eric. Excuse me July 1st meeting Right first the last meeting June 17th June 17th. Thank you at our June 17th meeting forward further discussed The registry idea and we will continue discussing that this evening Next steps tonight the board may vote to accept the amended firearms discharge ordinance Once the board accepts an ordinance the public hearing process begins We will immediately warn a public hearing this evening upon assuming that we pass the ordinance tonight By Vermont statute We must hold one public hearing about the proposed changes to the ordinance and after that public hearing the select board can Dop the ordinance and it will take effect if there are no further changes to the ordinance We anticipate final passage to occur at the select boards August 19th meeting Residents always have the option to challenge any newly adopted ordinance by circulating a petition calling for a town-wide vote on whether to overturn the ordinance Petitions must be signed by 5% of registered voters of the town of Essex and must be submitted within 44 days of the ordinance being passed Currently there are 16,077 registered voters in Essex So 5% of that would be 804 validated signatures The select board would then have to hold a special meeting on the question a town-wide Australian ballot vote within 60 days The new ordinance would remain in effect until the results of the vote are known So for public comment tonight We want to hear your feedback on our discussion and at the appropriate time. I will open the discussion for audience comments Please remember this is a select board decision The select board will absolutely hear what you have to say, but this is not a negotiation We have heard your concerns and will continue to weigh your input We may not produce the outcome you want which we know can be excruciating to watch happen But please be assured we hear you and we are balancing many interests Please keep your comments respectful and brief and focus on new things. We may not have heard Do not interrupt or have side in conversations while others are speaking and please direct all comments to me as select board chair Speakers will be given a limited time for their comments And if time runs out either I or Evan will cut you off and please be respectful of others time If someone ahead of you makes the point you wanted to make please just say I agree with that person rather than repeat it and Remember to state your name clearly when you get to the mic Can I have a show of hands as to anyone who is interested in speaking this evening? Okay, I'm gonna limit everyone's time to a minute 30 seconds per person I'll let you know when it's time to speak and Evan will keep time and he will cut you off if you go over So thank you for your patience and for cooperating with the rules All right, so we have before us a Final version of the amended Firearms discharge ordinance Greg, would you like to walk us through the changes that have been made sure? So looking at the proposed changes to the ordinance focuses on a few areas first one is adding the definition of a firearm second is Specifying when discharge can occur in or in and around or sorry excuse me just in Indian Brook Park Saxon Hill Forest the 90-acre school parcel most of Saxon Hill is already off limits to discharge And the tree farm sx tree farm It also looks to create conditions for outdoor shooting ranges with the requirement that range owners use a notification form To inform the town about the presence of the range We updated the penalties for violations of the ordinance Our proposed proposed an update to that and some other housekeeping changes in chapter 9 which deals with parks just to reflect the changes elsewhere What's in front of you today? The as I mentioned the packet that went out included language about a buffer area around Indian Brook Park and Saxon Hill the 90 acres of Saxon Hill the select board had Pretend to be agreed to do away with that 500 foot buffer So the language in front of you in the map in front of you that were handed out tonight And we're available up at the front of the room Remove that 500 foot buffer That is the summary. I'm happy to go into details or answer questions The notification form has been updated as well since the last discussion from June 17th Scaled back a bit and not as much information being requested Okay, and you've provided a marked up copy as well as a fresh copy of the form. Yes Thank You Greg All right, so I Would love to hear the select board's thoughts on the adjustments that we've made to the ordinance since our last meeting and Any other thoughts or questions that you might have? Matt start now that the map and the Ordinance is updated to address the 500 foot buffer, which I know we talked about a number of meetings ago And that we've been discussing this for Many years to get to where we are With a lot of discussion and input I've read through the updated ordinance and to me it looks like it has a lot of common sense To me from my perspective a lot of common sense elements, which I think are appropriate so Okay with it now that the 500 foot buffer had been addressed I just have a I think I have a clarifying question the the ordinance references the the notification form but the question I guess I have is is the form itself and part of the ordinance or is it approved separately or It's I would see it being approved separately the the note of the ordinance references the notification form That will be provided by the town so it'd be available in the clerks office or the police station to pick up Okay, so what we would be potentially approving tonight would be the language of the ordinance not necessarily the language of the former We are proving both. I know Technically you'd be approving the language of the ordinance I think it makes sense to have a pretty good idea of what the form is going to look like at this point It could always be changed in the future in my opinion But I think you'd want to have a good sense of what what you're putting out there if you're going to approve the requirement for a notification So my my one question on that I know I sent this to you earlier Greg was the we had I had commented about adding known shooting ranges to the e 9-1-1 database And I just don't know whether we need to ask permission from landowners to do that or whether it would be just a Part of our process to go ahead and then and add those in That was my oversight to forget to put that in there, so I apologize for that I spoke to Shannon Lunderville who's our GI GIS coordinator and our e 9-1-1 coordinator She said it could work either way it could either be an opt-in where people request a checkmark checkmark checkbox To join into the 9-1-1 notification registration system or it can just be automatic and she can update the System as the notification forms come in okay, so but for the purposes of the ordinance We don't need to answer that question tonight, so okay. All right. Thank you What is your preference in terms of having an opt-in or just making it? I don't know I just don't know if there's a if there's any legal ramifications to I don't know that that would be my only question I think I think I think it would be a good idea for folks who are filling out the form to recognize that they're there I Think we either need to have the checkbox to say opt-in or at least have some reference that you'll automatically be placed on the If we just go that way to automatically placed on the e 9-1-1. I'd like them to be aware of it so that if Something does occur Consider an opt-out I actually would prefer not to let them opt out if that's if that's possible so that because you know it's You know I got that I started thinking along this line because I read someplace somewhere that the state is trying to encourage GIS coordinators to document or e 9-1 on coordinators to document sugar shacks and it seems to me that a shooting range is possibly more or at least as dangerous as a sugar shack and so I was hoping we could encourage folks to register their shooting ranges and I would like to see it be I prefer it to be non-optional so that in case of emergency We can have the best response possible So we could have asked staff to add a statement at the bottom that says you know Assuming assuming there's no legal concern with doing that. Yeah And it's oh, sorry Pat I'm actually going to tail off on something that Andy mentioned The form itself since we're not strictly approving that tonight For my knowledge, what's the mechanism if that form Changes or needs to change at some point would that come back to an existing select board or is that something that the clerk or the town manager can do? Unilaterally think based on the sensitivity of it. We would like to bring it back to the select board Any do you have questions or comments? I Have a comment. I take very very seriously Both sides of this issue Because it's my job too And so I hear your passion on both sides and I'm Very very thoughtful about all of your words And I feel confident that that's true of our entire board And so please know that we we absolutely are hearing you and that it's a very difficult position to be in and I Absolutely love my community want to make sure that we are thoughtful Throughout the entirety of the process and I appreciate your time Any other comments about the discharge ordinance or the form or any questions? I I feel Confident that we are I feel comfortable with where we're currently at any other questions or comments from board members Greg Just in response to Patrick's comment. I could propose some Change language in the ordinance instead of saying a notification form provided by the town of Essex It could be a notification form approved by the select board of Essex Yeah, I would feel more comfortable that language. That's great Around what line would you put that Greg? Oh Here it is line 90 form that was handed out to you today line so I'm getting the sense of the board that You are satisfied with the point to which we've gotten with the ordinance and the form Would you be okay with oh Pat? Yeah, I mean I only have one more comment not a mechanical change But since we didn't really get clarity about the insurance inquiries Although an insurance inquiries are still a requirement on the form as being prevented the liability insurance just To know I realized that My biggest concern with it was that you would be installing a functional block on anyone who didn't have the financial means to get that level of assurance and That is a problem in my head And we didn't get a number for obvious reasons because we did do our inquiries and The answers were all over the place, right, but it does appear as if there were several insurance agencies that simply don't ask about shooting ranges, so if Necessary while I realize that that might mean that you would need to go with a different company for liability insurance You know, it's just it's an area where I had some concern before but knowing that there are options out there sort of Leavage that fear in my head certainly if Someone has another take on it. I'd like to hear it, but just because I mentioned it last time I wanted to clarify that in the open session now I also felt More comfortable that there were a Variety of channels for someone to utilize and I appreciated the work done in that regard Okay chief Just for clarification on the E-91 Issue or discussion. That's actually a layer that's put on a map by us and it really Be very difficult to either opt in opt out on a one-by-one basis. The example is Fire hydrants are on a layer in an E-911 map. In fact, everybody's house and house number is on an E-911 map What I would envision is that the town would make a decision either ran or we're out And Again doing it one by one I'm sure that that should be able to do one by one updates It's what she basically does is say, okay We're going to do fire hydrants now all the fire hydrants are put there that's uploaded E-911 and now it shows up Unless you download the E-911 Software and look at an E-911 app. You don't see all those layers and some of them are actually protected or restricted So I'm not sure where those and Shannon would be the person to talk about that But it's not the thing where you go necessarily There's some layers that you don't see just going to the internet and looking at it, but I think one by one that would be difficult I think you'd want to potentially say either we're going to do it or we're not going to do it as a group Thank you. That's helpful Any further comments or questions? All right Then I think we will open up the discussion to the audience if you would like to have something to say about our discussion Please come take a seat at the mic when you speak at the mic give us your name and you will have a minute 30 seconds to say your peace Please feel free I Will give you I will give you a warning with 15 seconds left. Please don't make me cut you off Hope I don't stutter My name is Andy Doe. I live on sleepy Hollow Road and it dressed me as the chair. Okay. It's a group thing I Have a question on shooting ranges. I have a shooting range of my property There are shooting ranges in my neighborhood as well So my question has to do with lines 99 through 105 I'll just read them here It said the list of outdoor shooting ranges is intended to give the town of Essex Police Department Awareness of the location and the number of ranges within the town borders to provide public information for neighbors and future residents regarding the location of ranges to Increase awareness among range owners for the need for safety guidelines and to increase awareness For range owners of the impact of their ranges on surrounding properties and the necessity to maintain Good relations with neighbors regarding noise hours of operation and What is considered a nuisance? So what I see here is I don't know what the definition of a nuisance is All right, I've got a range next to me that shoots 8 to 10 hours a day It's a nuisance for me, but I'm not sure that that would be a nuisance for him or other people So I'd like to see more meat in here in terms of what is a nuisance 15 seconds I'm all set. You did a nice job with this one Thank you for not Zeroing in on hunters because hunters are definitely not the problem with firearms. It's clearly with ranges. Thank you Thank you for your time Hi, my name is Sarah Salatino. I live on Brigham Hill Road, and I just want to thank you for putting select board for putting forth this Regulation I'm really on board with it. This is about security not about denial of rights A minoc of the woods Brigham Hill Road is much more suburban It's since 2006 with many cul-de-sacs being punched into woods and fields allowed by the Planning Commission More being planned going forward. Many of you drove here tonight, but to drive To have this right you needed to train for a license an update based on your choice of vehicle Be it a beater to a sports car. You must pay Insurance commensurate on your device. You may operate your vehicle only in the in certain places designated by Government roads you also pay taxes on those roads. So my concern is I'm addressing the insurance proponent component of this Vehicles can kill based on the person driving them as the people who shoot guns Can kill can can kill but most of I really believe that people will be very safe in Essex and with with the what you've proposed it will help I'm sure hunting and and shooters are safety-oriented Via If vehicles are regulated why not guns and shooting ranges. Thank you very much. Thank you Nils Goodens Whitcomb Meadows Lane May I ask before my time officially begins a point of clarification from the board with their approval? Sure. I've been after a map like this for months Good to see that it's here Can I ask? There's been some confusion The select board truly does have authority To govern the school property, which is what I'm going to talk about tonight Is that official? We have the authority to determine where firearms can be discharged Including school property. Thank you In that case, I will address my comments to the school property There is no scale on this map, but thankfully the regulations provide one the straight line on the Jericho Essex town line is stated to be 1900 feet And so I have three basically three questions for the select board can can the select board provide an honest Good answer as to why any shooting could should be allowed in that school property when you can see that it's Approximately only a quarter mile from the deer crossing development where there's already been a stray bullet Embedded in a structure. That's question one question two Can the select board provide me a good and logical answer? Why any shooting at any time should be allowed in the school property zone when it's directly adjacent to the Saxon Hill? Recreational area that we are visioning on now that is filled with people all year round and increasing commercial traffic three can the select board provide a Good and logical answer as to why any shooting could be should be allowed in this relatively small Irregularly shaped parcel that I'll call either an irregular octagon or A z-shaped plot in view of the difficulties with signage It is very complicated up there. I am aware of the geography Thank you very much, and I look forward to the answers to those important questions Hi, my name is Mike K. You live on Lost Nation Road. I just want to throw out a few things here First of all, we've been over this for a year. There's no credible data that supports The moves we're talking about doing specifically with the registration and what's on the form We're solving the proverbial problem that does not exist or at least going about it in the wrong way 13 VSA 1025 Already addresses reckless endangerment. It even specifically discusses Firearm use and the EPD can summon people if they have a dangerous range under that VSA You've already touched on a lame bit regulating shooting ranges is disregarding VSA 2991 section 8 So we got to be careful. What is regulating and what is not? Over our time Play speak the online forums despite 60% of the respondents being from the current no shooting zone With that going really against those of us who actually live in the areas of discussion Indianbrook, Saxon Hill and the north central area all had a majority voting for no change Sticker boards at the first meeting greater than 90% of the stickers showed support for no change And we've seen over the last year as well meeting up with those over the select board meetings I've heard people feel intimidated and I can understand that if you don't want confrontation But the survey itself had no written or in in person interaction And so people couldn't even do that then obviously they don't care too much about this a specific point Sort of that really what this adds up to is I think we've got Anti-gun agenda and opinions that are unstemmed stanch a leading us town a dangerous road Which could lead to litigation as a taxpayer. I don't want to see my tax money And I doubt anyone else in here go and put in our time of litigation for months on and against something that is Violating the law regardless of what your personal opinion is. It's a great in our country that we can disagree on opinions But it's better that we have laws that protect it. Thank you Ed Wilbur Brown's River Road. I wanted to address a few things number one was the insurance issue I feel that's going to put really undue burden. I realize you guys keep saying this is not a registry But in actuality it is going to be a registry. There's going to be documentation There's going to be records kept and if insurance companies do want to look into it and see if you have a range on your property They can and would drop your insurance which would force you to See insurance other places which would in turn not accept you because they're going to know that your insurance was dropped Because you have a shooting range on your property. I know a lot of people don't think that's going to be an issue But it absolutely well The other issues that I have is that we keep referring to the NRA range manual Which in fact states that neither the reader of this source book or anyone else is to rely on any Representation drawing or statement made by this source book rely on this source book to design build construct or operate a range rely on any claim that a particular range is in compliance or Designed built constructed or operated according to pursuant to this source book So basically the range book itself that we're being told that we need to construct our ranges to Tells us implicitly that we're not even to use that as a guideline unless we seek Legal sources to make sure that it's it's in compliance In that we also have architects and engineers design the course for us, so You say that we're not going to be limiting people's rights or ability to do it But in fact, you will be putting undue financial burden on people if you want to have ranges on their property. Thank you very much Next please don't be shy My name is Kelly Adams, and I live at Kings Court I'm grateful for this opportunity and for the work of the select board and for our participatory democracy I Think we come together in societies over the millennia because doing so helps us be safer together in Many many different ways, and I think that these proposals are ways for us to help each other be safer together in society Accidents do happen My children play on these fields. I walk my dog on these paths And I think these are reasonable reasonable ways for us to Work together as a society each meeting each other in the middle. The community is changing the zoning and the Density is changing and I'm grateful for the recommendations of three police chiefs Thank you My name is Randy Draper I my wife Sally and daughter Whitley live at 184 Towers Road extension, which is in the blue zone and we do have a backyard firing range Occasionally across the street from us I believe I'm on the record of supporting the Changes to the ordinance regarding The firing ranges. I'd like to underscore that we are very much in favor of all the changes to the ordinance across the board But I also want to thank the board for listening to us over these many months and To taking into consideration all the concerns of all the people who are here in this room And the homework that you've done to get us to this point So regardless of how you vote tonight or in the future, I personally wanted to give you Thank you for that Ben bro. My family owns land on Lost Nation Road when we hear about needing licenses and Insurance to drive a car. We're talking about on publicly owned Roads what we're talking about here is recreation on privately owned property that you shouldn't have to show a board that you have Liability insurance for that I'm once again going to reiterate what I've said in other meetings that the facade of this being simply a notification of shooting ranges is ridiculous When you talk of creating conditions and establishing requirements that my friends is regulation with this regulation This municipality will be greatly overreaching the authority that has been delegated to them by the state of Vermont with regards to this topic If this is how the board chooses to proceed, I will look forward to the day that this blatant overreach is corrected by the courts Thank you Looks like someone's coming to the mic and then the person who had their hand up back there Sir, are you going to come speak? Oh, sorry Obviously Phillips I live in the village So I don't have a range and it doesn't directly impact me I do have a couple of questions though as I'm reading this it looks like the Person who owns a range is going to be responsible for Notifying and possibly making changes if an abutting landowner makes changes to his or her property if they put in a pool if they subdivide if they Put an addition on their house something like that and I'm curious as to why There might be an extra burden on The person who owns the range If a neighbor decides to make a change to their home if the range there first, why do they have to make a change? Why can't that person be denied a permit to put an addition that's going to impact the range or Something like that The other question I have or a statement I have to make Talks is goes to food insecurity. There are people in this town Who are actually hunting in Indian Brook and Saxon Hill? They're not shooting for a trophy deer They're shooting squirrels and they're they're they're feeding them to their family And I've talked to some of the board members the previous board about this. It's really sad I didn't know you could eat squirrel until I met some of these people But I hope you keep that in mind when you restrict the time that people can shoot There are people who are literally shooting squirrels and feeding for their children year-round Please take that into account Briar Murphy 187 tower sword extension This process has been drawn out for a long period of time and so there's a different exchange exchange of information I brought out a map at a meeting. I think it was pretty illustrative of what we're talking about We're talking about real problems not hypothetical Sarah Salatino. It's not about a real problem So it galls me to hear that we're talking about hypothetical problems that don't exist. They're real and It has nothing to do with the Second Amendment I'm a big fan of the Second Amendment. It has to do about safety. You have a right to own a gun You simply don't have a Second Amendment right to point it at my property if you have a safe Firing range I'd be the first to support your right to shoot it and I know folks And I'm not gonna name them here who have shooting ranges and I and I know they have safe ranges and I support that I Understand their concern that there may be some regulation they have to deal with but if you have a safe range you should be Comforted that you know your neighbors are not going to be endangered by that There are also shooting ranges just so we don't lose sight of it in Jonesville Williston under Hill and Charlotte. There's there's Shooting ranges nearby, but anyways if you have a safe shooting zone I don't think you have anything to worry, but We could talk about this map. I'd have to engage anyone after this meeting about that Mark Redmond, Marion Avenue, and I'm in favor of the ordinance. I hope you pass all that elements of it in terms of shooting ranges I too I'm gonna guess the probably the vast majority of people who have shooting ranges know how to do it safely and responsibly and reliably But even if 95% of them do I'm worried about the 5% who do not Like the people who set up a shooting range 10 years ago and shot and killed dr. Rice and his home Or the person when Brian Murphy showed his map a couple of months ago Even those who were hunters and those who have shooting ranges gasped when they saw that map and that his house is right in the line of fire So that's why we need in my opinion to regulate these it's why we need stop signs It's why we have speed limits. It's why we have regulations for the people who are not reliable and responsible So I do hope that you pass this ordinance. Thank you Breck Norton Sandhill Road I Missed the last meeting and it doesn't say on here what you're trying to require for liability insurance. Can you tell me what that number is? $500,000 you only need $50,000 of liability insurance on your car How many people get killed by cars every year in Vermont and how many people get killed by guns every year in Vermont That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me Thank you for your time I'm Patty Davis again. I lost my reading glasses. So bear with me. I just want to respond to a couple of speakers back And that's fine, you know that I think it's okay that we have different opinions I just want you to know I think you did a great job too working on this And I fully understand that we the residents may challenge of the new firearm ordinance by circulating petition Which must be signed by 5% of the town's registered voters? 804 validated signatures submitted within 44 days of ordinance passage the select board would then hold a special meeting in a Townwide Australian ballot vote within 60 days. That is what I think we really need in my opinion State law needs to keep up with the increase in residential communities that we have expanded into places where hunting occurs Like public roads having the town Well, anyway, that's all I have to say That town roads really need an ordinance in this town you lack it It's smaller towns have a town ordinance much more comprehensive than the town of Essex. Thank you Thank you. Would anyone else like to speak? Hello. Thank you. I don't envy select board Irene runner I don't envy select board members having to get up to speed on all this material having done it myself for the past 10 years My comments reference lines 61 through 65 of the proposed ordinance as I read it There continues to be a 500 foot year-round safety zone around Indian Brook reservoir. I Believe the reason for that is because the main trails around that reservoir are part of that safety zone I would ask that you go take a look take a walk or two around the trails at Saxon Hill They're very different in the school parcel There's no such safety zone there and I believe there should be such a zone designated before we allow shooting To be delineated in that area or to be prohibited in that area for certain times of the year Thank you Please Before I Brad Keneson, Bixby Hill wrote before I issue my statement I file a document with the deputy town manager on June 10th And it had the 2019 proposed deer hunting seasons They just issued a calendar with the 2019 Deer season if I could may Give that to you. Absolutely Thank you, I might note on that. I'm sorry Is it a clarification are you ready to start your statement? I'm sorry Are you are you doing some clarification? Are you ready to start your stuff? I can yes one clear one clarification Okay, that the new proposed deer season archery season starts September 15th I might note that 40% of the deer taken in Essex are taken by archery so when you consider the hunting seasons in the park you might want to consider that because the County forest are recommended deer hunting in In the park to maintain you know to prevent overbrows So my statement tonight The impetus for the select board proposal in backyard shooting ranges stems from Complaints that a few residents may be operating firearms in an unsafe manner On the other hand past and present select board members have stated unequivocally that they believe most of us in the shooting sports Community to be safe and are not concerned about us in Conversation with chief Gary he stated it was unlikely He could obtain prosecution of these individuals because the state's attorney's caseload At the last like board meeting I suggested that the chief the town manager the select board chair meet with the state's Attorney Sarah George to garner support for prosecution violators. I've taken this Step further and spoken with the state's attorney that prosecuted professor Reese case and he stated if sxpd brings a legitimate case before him He will prosecute To deal with the root cause of your concern you now have recourse to deal with the issue. There's no excuse If the select board and sxpd choose not to pursue for a prosecution of these violating of those violating current law But instead pursue their mandatory registration and it's honorous requirements It clearly demonstrates a willful disregard for the rights of law abiding citizens The select board has stated they value our opinion. However, not one of our reclamation recommendations exist in their proposal Clearly, this is a select board agenda designed to squelch the use of guns in our community We as a shooting sports community will not sit by and watch the select board On the rights of its citizens, thank you very much. Thank you If the BF six for us road, I want to thank the board for all the work that they've done. I've been to most meetings I'm a big advocate of range regulation Because I use one Every week and but that's at the firing range in Ethan Allen. I'm also an engineer. I know Be by design because I've worked with Department of Defense is both here and in other countries how far a bullet can can fly and The range anyone who certify at the range knows how far bullet can fly and it's much beyond Where the target is? so while I appreciate the concern of Existing owners of firing range Accident may happen and What is initially in in your property might travel much beyond your property? so I Really encourage the range owner if you want to keep your sport alive. You've got to help the select board meeting make sure that we can Shut down the ranges that are really unsafe. I Love shooting at the range in Ethan Allen. Why because it is absolutely safe I coach kids 15 seconds as as young as eight to shoot. I have no problem with that Because we have rules and regulation and we know exactly when we're a stray bullet can can land and we know no one is there Would anyone else like to speak? Kendall Chamberlain old pump road. I just want to point out that the town of Richmond just came up with the town forest They ran into the same issue. They were going to prevent firearms and hunting on the forest Their residents got together. They listen to the minority that is in Richmond that hunts and shoots And they totally eliminated any restrictions on firearms in their town forest I just want to point out that I used to think that I lived in a small Vermont town I don't think I live in a small Vermont town anymore And I don't feel like you're paying any attention to myself who is a minority it sounds like in this town But you better be prepared for some litigation because you've heard it right here from a number of different people That's all I want to say David Skopin Skyline Drive That's correct. You no longer live in small town Vermont. You live in a suburb It's a glorified suburb, but it's a suburb and frankly I think there are a number of us that feel that the only place you should discharge a firearm is at a safe secure Well-managed range and I am certain that you could collectively get together and create such an entity And then you would eliminate all the hassle if you have the luxury of walking out back and firing off a couple shots Those days are going to be gone soon You might as well prepare now because it's not going to be long and you will realize it No, you're not in a small town. You're in a suburb. Thank you Anyone else like to speak? sir You want to be last? Can't guarantee that Roger Haskins Foster Road My question and or concerns is the Definition of a firing range. I Don't see very much text on your paper about the definition of a firing range You did add a definition of a firearm, which was very good but if A lady in the north side of town Wounds ten acres of land Goes out every third year and fires a deer rifle three times To see that it hasn't changed since the last time she did it three years ago At a target that she put up on her hip next to her hill Does she have a firing range? That's my question. What's the definition? How many bullets can you fire a year and not have a range? Can you fire just one bullet in the round and now you have a firing range? I do not know and I don't see it in your definition. Thank you very much Would anyone else like to speak so everyone had an opportunity to say what they felt if that is the case seeing no one else Okay, come on up Didn't realize how short a minute and a half was Before before you go, I'm sorry, I have my readers Has anyone who hasn't already spoken want to speak because that's what we're limiting it to if there's anyone who hasn't already spoken Sir, I think we're going to need to limit it to folks who haven't spoken if you have further comments So you're welcome just to drop them off at the table or email them to us separately There are a monogue. I live on Pettengill Road. I actually own the Pettengill farm We've been shooting up there since well the Pettengills were pups which is 18. God knows what this issue isn't shouldn't I mean Should you be able to discharge and that's extension probably, you know, there's lots of areas probably not But those of us that have private ranges and whatnot You got to consider something before you decide to vote on something. What is private domain? What is public domain? What you do in your private land is up to you. Where do I keep a gun? It's all my private domain whether it's on your person in your car or on your property and what you do with it there is there The concern is Not up to you to regulate. It's not up to the NRA to regulate There's already a law that says laws that say you can't go out shoot a gun in your yard and have bullets leave your property Period. It's that simple Why is this complicated you try to tell me what I can and can do for berms and stuff Whatever you're gonna pay for them if I if you decide I need them bigger. I don't think so When I decide to shoot now, I've been shooting on my property forever. I own Vermont Target Sports I've run the range and yeah, but a lot of it's over the town line Some of it is some of it isn't some of it doesn't apply to you, but I'm not going to be told when and how I can shoot what happens when you decide to go out there with a night Scope or whatnot the answer to ladies saying is you regulate the car No, you don't because you can drive your car on your property. You don't have to register it You don't have choice of what we do on our private domain. It's that simple How about the town support you support hockey your support baseball you support soccer you support whatever How about the town support? Shooting thing or whatnot my time. Thank you hasn't begun Trust me on that Anyone else like to speak Earl Barbara to bobo link circle It's a lot to digested one my first and only meeting but But I would agree that you know times are changing everybody's opinion of what is safe is going to be different And it doesn't need to be regulated It's just Time because it's just congested. It's not Technologies changed firearms change The zoning's changed. I mean I can't put up a dynamite factory on my property Because it may affect my neighbors you wouldn't allow that Same because it wouldn't stay on my property. That's the problem with the shooting ranges the bullets can leave the property Unless it's well maintained and apparently it's not because we've had accidents So for people who have gun ranges and say that they know what they're doing. It's safe Then why do we have all these incidents of death even okay? It's it needs to be regulated because safety is not defined. Thanks Thank you Is there anyone else who has not spoken would like to speak I Thank you all for your very heartfelt testimony. We really appreciate it. We have listened we're going to take the conversation back to the select board and After that we will have a vote all right Select work max. I would like to add some items to the definition section including if we could Yeah, I think it's 14 for the definitions as definition of firearm I'd like to include definition if we could have nuisance what a nuisance is if there is a definition of that and If we can better define what an outdoor shooting range is because I There's a whole spectrum of them and if it's possible to better define what those are I think would be good to include Greg I see your hand nuisance we can look into line 85 Outdoor shooting range means an outdoor shooting range outdoor firing range or Other open property on which persons may discharge a firearm for purposes other than hunting Okay, and that that that could range from one bullet for year to many Okay, so it's already covered there then I would say then the If we couldn't if you could look into the nuisance definition Continuing on that thought chief can we get a Brief Description of what you would consider is there an ordinance describing what a nuisance nuisance is Yeah, I I think If I may this section 90 line 99 to 105 the gentleman who brought up the question about what is considered a nuisance You know if you read that last clause that says Increase awareness of range owners of the impact of their ranges on surrounding properties and the necessity to maintain good relations with neighbors Regarding noise hours of operation and what is considered a nuisance that to me is the part about maintaining good relations with neighbors If you have a neighbor who was flexible and says yeah, go ahead and shoot whenever That's fine, but if you have a neighbor who says look I have kids who are sleeping between 1 and 3 p.m Could you just not fire that during that time? That works. I would rather not be quite so prescriptive and Leave that up to the folks who are abutting the ranges. That's my personal opinion Annie. I I would like to say that that's great and I don't think we can do much that's different But I do think we need to keep in mind that those are challenging conversations for people to have To say the very least sure so at what point Would someone be able to go get some assistance in that regard and what does that look like? I? Would think that would vary from case to case But if a neighbor is not approachable or a neighbor is making the conversation difficult Then that would be an opportunity to come seek assistance from the town perhaps That's I think okay fair. It's up to neighbors to work these kinds of things out We can't be in my opinion. We can't be prescriptive about every aspect of how they live their lives And I mean that in both ways Andy I Don't think we can leave the definition of nuisance up to negotiation between neighbors. I don't know how you enforce that If you're gonna have a criteria that includes a nuisance Factor you get to be able to define it. I think you know there are you know from you know, I just don't know how you enforce it Somebody puts their foot down and says I don't want to hear a single gunshot because they're all nuisances, but that's not appropriate I don't think so I You know, how do you know what do you do with that? Violations of noise that would be handled noise be handled in our noise So I don't see this as regulating it This is talking about I believe like a vision statement They don't believe in the ordinance there's anything in there that talks about Another option in this con what does anybody else have any thoughts about the topic of Nuisance pat, I mean, I'm just reading through actually I agree with chief Gary. I mean, it's not We have to read the entirety of the paragraph I think to get an idea for this this is you know just He said vision statement. I think it's probably the best way of putting it. It's not meant to define What X person and Y person considered to be nuisances. It's just taken as a whole is You know the increased awareness of range owners on the impact of their ranges, etc, etc So since we're not enforcing anything by the definition of nuisance. I don't see any problem with keeping it in there Another possible option if this is not Something we can agree upon is to remove that portion and just say good maintain good relations with neighbors regarding noise and hours of operation period I want to clarify. There's a question about about bow season earlier. I mean our definition of Firearms specifically says that bow and arrow is not considered a firearm So there is no restriction to the archery deer season in we're not we're not shutting down hunting That we're saying you cannot can't discharge a firearm in those Between those dates so archery season never never closes in the parks Just to be clear on that you you had stated earlier that a lot of that a lot of the deer were taken During archery season and we're not restricting archery at all in the parks Yeah, in the definition of a firearm. It specifically says that bow and arrow is not a consider the fire What about the school property? What about the school properties? How are they covered here? Well, they are included in the Prohibited areas designated So they're all all the entirety of school properties are within the no shoot. I I think there may have been some confusion I think the reference for school properties was specific to the Saxon Hills like school property because the school Right Donated that land to the town The I believe pretty sure the gentleman was speaking about the 90-acre school parcel at Saxon Hill So it's not where the schools are located correct. Thank you I expressed concern about this last time and I I'd hope we get some some dollar numbers about the liability insurance cost You know, I think the question that was asked to the insurance companies is what would you do if someone? Identified that they had a shooting range on their property the question wasn't that that we didn't we didn't ask the question How much would $500,000 of liability cost and You know with although we've said, you know, there's there's options out there where if your insurance company drops You can go to a different insurance company I don't think that's a a Reasonable solution to say, you know, if you want to have a shooting range you've got to go Find an insurance company that's willing to insure you It seems, you know, I would think that you you know, it's just a question of It's a it's a personal choice. I said this is the last meeting I think that the amount of liability insurance you carry is a personal choice and I'm concerned about although and I know I'm a little Conflicted here is I'm not sure because we're not approving the form tonight, but should we discuss it? I think we should absolutely discuss the form at the moment. We're still on the ordinance, but we should talk about the form Okay, should I defer that my comments? I'm not I'm not I believe that if an individual wants to carry liability insurance on their property That it's up to them to determine how much the liability insurance they need and I'm not in favor of requiring The high high value of insurance that we've requested Two precedents existed that the staff based this suggestion on which we're in Texas at North Carolina that both require $500,000 in liability insurance on ranges and the other The other aspect of this I think is that we want to ensure that If something does happen to someone as a result of an accident on a range that the range owner has the wherewithal To make that person whole in some way and if they don't have Insurance that may not be able to happen Just another argument Yeah, I'm personally comfortable having that in there considering that even in Texas and North Carolina and others Have that for the reasons that I believe that you just talked about Let's hold on that one Sir Sir Thank you, we're gonna have the conversation is at the board level. I appreciate your frustration and not comment So Let's put that on hold until we get to the form I didn't it wasn't clear to me that we were going to I Think we're going back and forth because it's so deeply interrelated that we kind of can't help it Are there any other questions or comments on the amendments to the ordinance that we have before us? Yeah, at one point we had and maybe we're past this and I shouldn't try to go back We had we had talked about allowing small game hunting But it sounds like I think we're past that so I shouldn't I Mean that the date range has been pretty narrowly focused We did we did get a consensus of the board on the day And there are food pantries that are available in our community for people that could use them Why don't we move on to the form? Oh Excuse me bill In 2006 We also Only in a flooding property owner can bring a nuisance action based upon a shooting range Furthermore if you move to the nuisance If you move in this shooting range was established prior to your acquisition of the property You have there's a presumption that it's not a nuisance and that you can rebut that presumption only by Showing that the activity has a noxious and significant interference with the use and enjoyment of your property So it's a pretty up standard. So you're saying that if an existing range Has a new neighbor and the new neighbor considers it a nuisance It has to be a deeply significant nuisance to bring a claim Rebut the presumption that it's not a nuisance. It's a presumption that it's not a nuisance Okay I know I'm not being very definitive in my statements, but This information is interesting to me That if you have a registered range and then you get a new neighbor They're moving to a known situation I would think that that I'm sorry to speak. I'm sorry. I did like that. I didn't mean to I was just being thoughtful I should be speaking to Elaine It's interesting to me that It's a constant whereby you registering your range gives you a Slightly more level of comfort ability to know that Am I understanding this correctly? Yeah We're getting a little under the waters here, but I'm feeling like there's a bonus here for both sides If you're moving into a property that has a Registered range next door. You're making a decision to live there and you will have known ahead of time That the range existed right as opposed to now you wouldn't know unless you knocked on doors or something I know I've been a little vague. I'm struggling internally with all of my thoughts and I don't want to We're here to hear your thoughts Why don't we move on to the form bill? Thank you for that. That was really helpful based on the Conversation we had at the June 17th meeting staff has updated the form So you have a red-lined version and then you have a clean version at the end of the section of the packet so Does anyone have any questions about what the how the form stands now and this form is online on The town's website for the board meeting materials for tonight So Andy you're we still have a question about insurance Were there any other questions or comments or concerns about the form? the form was updated based on what I Thought we talked about And I said before it'll say it again that I think the insurance piece is a Should be a requirement. I think it it just makes sense To me to have that in there and again, it's By looking at other existing ones that are out there Identify the ones in Texas and North Carolina that also asked for the 500,000 for similar reasons It seems to be common sense to me Any other thoughts or comments on the form itself Andy So the the way the form is stated right now It asks for a police signature and the only question is whether or not the form is complete That's that's our intent, right? So there's no Judgment As to the safety or not of The shooting range is that correct or my misunderstanding Correct and actually Greg if you wouldn't mind walking us through the Administrative process of this form so that we can have a sense of how that will work. That would be very helpful Sorry to put you on the spot So we would have the form available online On clerk's office probably at the police station as well the town clerk's office would be handling almost like a liquor license They would be the deposit repository for the forms They would accept them they would send them to the police for review with the police would look at the application See if the form is complete see if the site plan is Captures the what should be shown in the list of items on there They would make sure that there's proof of insurance and any other requirements of the form Police team a complete they would then send it back to the clerk's office They could get captured or recorded as a complete form Yeah But how does this like? You know the there's a map that somebody showed before that shows a shooting range with the house in the you know in the downstream of the bullets But there's nothing on here that would prevent that Map from being approved We're not approving anybody's range We're asking them to make us aware of its existence and to give us a description of the conditions And we're asking the range owner to certify that they are certain that projectiles fired in their range We'll stay within their property and so that's the extent of our authority in this particular case If the police are one they review Like Max said just like with a liquor license They'll review the application to make sure there are any issues if they have an issue with that Then they can go back to the owner and say This isn't this isn't complete in our estimation. There's things missing that would make it safer Chief do I have is that an accurate? So you just said that the judgment would be made as to whether or not doing something would make it safer and Is I mean the fact that we're asking the police department to make a judgment does that give us any life establish any liability Bill would you mind taking that for us, please? certifying These ranges as safe that you're exposing yourself to to liability There's a concept called the public duty doctrine Which basically says you've got a duty to all the citizens of the town of Essex, but it's a duty to all is a duty to none It's only when you go after particular individuals and you accept responsibility For an individual that you lose that protection from liability Maybe a clarification We're asking people to notify us that they are operating a range on their property We are not asking the police to determine whether they're safe Does the information that they've provided Accurately depict what is out there? That's all the that's all the information we want. We'll put it on our Any property owner in adjacent can you know maybe ask a question or where are the ranges around this property? We can provide information. We cannot determine whether something is safe I think one of the things one of the gentleman mentioned even the NRA in their pamphlet does not want you To rely on them to claim that they're safe That's telling you what you need to know about This the ordinance is and the requirement is the bullets are not to leave your property It is the property owners responsibility to set up whatever they're setting up. So those bullets stay on the property We're making no determination So Evan you mentioned that Property owners or potential property purchasers could ask us for information about surrounding properties whether there are shooting ranges on them once we have this this List put together How are the how will people know that that list exists? There's nothing going to be attached to the deeds or anything so there's no title search or anything That's going to tell you you have a range next door Somebody would have to know to ask that question It'd be a matter of public record record they could ask Just as if they could ask to know enough to ask Right, but then there's no there's nothing that would trigger Somebody asking that question unless they somehow If it's a concern of a future homeowner who is looking around for a place to live and they want to make sure they're either Moving to a place that has ranges so that they can also have one Or they want to be in a place that doesn't have them that that would be something that They would want to research We're not going to go out advertise. Yeah, I bought a house and ask a six twenty years Who never occurred to me to ask if any of my neighbors could had shooting ranges It's not it's not something somebody's gonna think of some I'm it's a personal preference if someone wants to find out the last Yeah, yeah, okay, maybe I was stupid for not asking, but I'm not sure too many I'm sorry It's not a common question probably right and so I'm I'm I'm I'm seeing them. I'm losing sight of the value of Doing this unless again, it's to put it into 9-1 you 9-1-1 and so people know where emergencies are Yes, that is that is one of the reasons for that is for our police and public safety to know Where they are also because of the 2006 rule You need to have some basic and a date. So sometime in the future If the state decides in their infinite wisdom to change the law from 2006 to 2022 What was here what is not here? After we would have our own database have documentation of one of them when a Shooting range was recognized to have been established based on its registration date. Yes Thank you any other questions or comments on the form Any questions or comments on the map? Because I'm assuming this map will be accompanying our documentation of this. Yeah, I Appreciate Shannon's adjusting the the buffers. That's Extremely important and this map is very clear. So that's a good thing as well All right so If I recall correctly the only change that we have been asked to make up to the form is to add a statement saying that The location of the range will be Indicated on the E911 database Is that correct? Did anyone have any additions that I'm missing? So then I'd like to remove the insurance requirement. So okay, so that's what I'm asking So you're interested in removing the insurance requirement Based on comments so far. I think max is not in favor of that Pat and Annie, do you have any thoughts about the insurance requirement? I Mean like Andy, I would like a Number my with The largest concern I have is that we're setting a barrier in place for those who may not be able to afford it Someone is wealthier. They'll be able to afford a half a million dollar rider on their insurance policy Which means that we By enacting this You know maybe Unfairly targeting part of the population who don't have the ability to pay which I don't think is the intent at all The intent is for safety or excuse me as you mentioned not for safety reasons to make sure that there is some sort of Recompense if something does go wrong So without a solid number, I'm Really tossing up in my head whether or not we should include it even though I recognize The extreme value and realize why we use this number. I just I Don't like the thought that this is going to eliminate people from having a shooting range who make under $20,000 a year or under $25,000 a year because they just wouldn't be able to afford it Yeah, I Am not in favor of putting a dollar threshold on this I Could get an insurance policy from Harrod's or I could get an insurance policy from all-state It's up to me the bells and whistles and the extent of the rider I Think what we just want to make sure is that there is enough coverage and that the range owner is Cognizant of the potential for risk and therefore is covering themselves for it So it's not up to us to determine the dollar value of that, but I think we should require it Annie Just so that I understand you are you saying that it should not Be an expected number No, I'm saying the liability threshold should be $500,000 But the policy itself could cost anything depending upon who you go to so I don't want to put a limit or a requirement About dollars. I don't want to I don't want to I don't want to remove it because I'm a concern of the cost of the policy I want to keep it because I'm concerned about the recompense of someone who may be injured. I Understand I I think what was what I'm understanding That I'm hearing not from you maybe Patrick is that we'd like to hear what that might cost That was the initial intent Andy had asked for that information and when staff did the research They discovered that it was all these different things in terms of would they even cover it or not even ask? I read that and I understood it. I just was not Clear that the question but but maybe I'm redoing something. We already just did I So I understood when I read okay about the insurance that So at this point the question is do you feel that we should keep this requirement on the form great? But I also wonder if we ask the question about what that might cost from a variety of places Like in where that number what it would cost a homeowner Or does it or is it like the question I asked ones before when I didn't know what was going on a little bit where where The The value of your home like and there's so many Variables that it's not a question you can even ask is that correct? I think that would probably be an answer In which case I'm sorry. I took us down this entirely Because I think that was also what Andy was asking wanting to know a dollar amount of a policy But you can't you can't come to that the variables are all over too many. All right, so We have two things to Approve at this point. Is there any further discussion before we go any go any further questions comments Just maybe you're going there next but from a procedural standpoint you said there's two things To approve Well, you had requested that we were approved the ordinance separate from the form Which I think I was asking the question if that was the intent. I wasn't I didn't know what whether Whether we're approving both with one vote whether we're proving them with separate votes whether the form is in a different meeting I Think because the form is separate from the ordinance in terms that we don't have procedure in the ordinance that We approve the ordinance and then if we're ready, we could also approve the form this evening. I Think that would be a good procedure to follow Annie are you raising your hand? Yes so If we were to approve the ordinance Is it completely as in that's that? Yes, we've just gone through So this is getting to those weird semantics about passing the ordinance If you pass the ordinance tonight, which is a language required by the Charter What happens is it kicks off the public hearing process? We've worn the public hearing for August I think it's 19 was the day we had The language that we approved tonight and I've captured a couple changes is what would be warned for the public hearing And well after you have the public hearing on August 19th, you can then adopt the ordinance as is If there are proposed changes after the public hearing you have to warn it again and have another second public hearing based on those changes Okay, any yes So there's room for where we to collectively come to different thoughts. There's room for that. Yes, but also we understand There we go through the whole process again. You gotta go through the whole process understood. Yeah The the form It's not doesn't appear in our regulations, right? Just the fact that there is a form is in the regulations So we don't have to follow that Process to approve the form current The way I would read it and one of the changes I captured in my notes tonight was to change that The form get approved by the select board So if that language gets captured and the warrant public hearing for the ordinance We then have to approve a form at a certain point I don't think that has to be tonight, but you would have to approve that form once the ordinance when the ordinance takes effect Are you asking about approving future changes to the form? No, no, I'm asking whether we can defer the form Tonight not not approve the form tonight Since I think there's still may be an outstanding question about the cost of the insurance and the Liability coverage But if that's if we don't believe that's an obtainable number then That was researched already. Let's let's vote on Let's vote two times one on the ordinance and one on the form And that way we can decide whether we want to pursue that question further on the form or not Does that make sense? I'm a little concerned about approving an ordinance that references a form that Contained stuff. I don't want in it. So I'm Well, it's it's fine. I can vote. I'm only one vote. So I think we'll have to take that chance. Yep. Yeah Right. Did you have your hand up? No? Yes, but you were correct it for me to wait. You're good. Okay You guys are good. All right Max To approve the form separately. I think keeps it out of the actual ordinance itself And if we need to update the form, that's a clerical thing Exactly That gets approved by the select board. I Don't think it's a good practice to include Administrative forms within an ordinance because then every time you change the form you have to go through the whole process Is there any further discussion before we move to a vote? We'll do the motion in the second and then there's another opportunity for discussion There is a recommendation on the front page of our of this section of the packet would anyone like to make a motion based on that recommendation Yes, I'll move that the select board authorized Staff to take necessary steps to prepare for final passage of the revised firearms ordinance Including warning of public hearing to consider final passage of the revised firearms Page 5b Keep going Thank you. Okay. I want to redo that one. It's not the wrong page So I reckon I move that select board the town of Essex here by ordain the passage of the revised firearms ordinance And take the next steps to consider final passage of a revised ordinance with the change to line 90 requiring the form to be approved by the select board Is there a second? second Any further discussion Andy's clarification is if we vote yes on this, what are we approving? We're approving Okay, which which then through the public hearing process could be changed again and then So and and just to be clear sorry, I know you've said this already There's a vote tonight Then we have a public hearing and then we vote again to adopt to adopt Okay, so this is approving the language at this point and then we adopt it Later choose at the public hearing to amend it for right. We start over. Thank you Okay, any for the public's knowledge. Can you restate the date you said before? Yes We will we're gonna add within the language pending the outcome of this vote. We will warn a public hearing We have a motion on the table and a second any further discussion All those in favor, please signify by saying aye. I Opposed nay The ordinance has passed four to one So now our next duty is to warn a public hearing on the ordinance as just passed That's where you get to read the next one Would anybody does anybody have any questions about the public hearing process or actually Greg Would you would you mind taking us through it one more time just to be sure? So now that the ordinance has been passed Do that term the select board needs to warn a public hearing You talked about doing that on April 19th August August 19th staff will put together the warning in the language Based on the changes to the ordinance that you just passed. We'll update that we'll make it available publicly, we will also put together as part of that notice the right to petition in the process for that You know where people can get more information about it Following the public hearing on August 19th, if that's the date you end up choosing sounds like it is you can then Accept or adopt the ordinance final passage as it is that night if there are changes you would warn another public hearing Forget if it's three or five days after that, but a few days after that is the minimum notice requirement Clear to everyone Thank you, Greg So I move that the select board authorize staff to take necessary steps to prepare for final passage of the revised firearms ordinance Including warning a public hearing to consider final passage of the revised firearms ordinance on Monday, August 19th Is there a second second? Any discussion? No, no discussion questions All those in favor, please signify by saying aye. Aye opposed Thank you very much. We have warned the public hearing of the revised firearms ordinance for August 19th That concludes our work on the firearms discharge ordinance this evening We have a few other business items to tend to which you're welcome to stay for But thank you very very much for your participation Throughout this very long process and we will see you at the public hearing on August 19th For so for the form itself. We're not gonna vote for that or we all Because my apologies I got ahead of myself Yeah, so I definitely got ahead of myself. We didn't warn a Separate vote on the form. Yeah, I don't think any of us thought yeah We were thinking the whole thing, but you're right We have plenty of time because the public hearing is on the 19th. So And your request was to ask staff to do deeper research on the actual cost of Policies for liability. Yep. So you would like staff to come back at the next meeting with data and If not if data is not available a decent explanation just to clarify It's not the to cover a shooting range just to cover $500,000 of personal liability liability, but there's differences I mean, I know that I know that but I you know, I can I can get in on you know, I Don't have to necessarily have to specify to my insurance company why I want that additional coverage Okay, I think that's that's I don't think anybody Necessarily like some of this Just no specificity. Yeah, I have a liability coverage policy Yeah, I can ask, you know make we can make three to five calls of Regular, you know known agencies and say what is a $500,000 liability? Yeah, I agree. I'm I would like it to know a ballpark number like that It does concern me that you know with respect to some of the people in the audience who mentioned it that Anyone who is hunting squirrels to feed their family probably is not going to be able to afford a $500,000 Insurance policy and that may influence whether or not I think that that should be on the final form All right, and the answer then the other thing is the question the E911 Specification that we were either either need to have a discussion about whether we're going to opt in or opt out is the chief Recommended as a whole as a whole to put everybody on the E911 or whether there's a legal reason why we can't do it I'd like to have that specified on the form so that Landowners know their property owners Okay, so we're tabling decision-making on the form until that information comes in Okay Item 5d update from governance subcommittee Max and Andy Tell us about it Well in your packet. There's a memo about the work we did last time we met I forget what date that was but we talked with KSV about the first survey and Potential some changes that we we wanted to do on there And KSV made those changes and then it went live The good news is we've gotten over 600 some odd respondents now With a good mix between with 600 yeah over six was a 640 or something Some like that and what was the statistically significant number if we could hit the high 300s to 400 that would be considered statistically significant So we're beyond that that's good news and it's a good mix between in the village and outside the village actually I think outside the village is a little bit higher and Let's see then we're going to get together as a subcommittee on July 18th to go over the survey and then start working on Screening questionnaire for the potential focus group participants that we have we're going to have a number of focus groups Some within the village some outside the village some mixed. I Believe the locations have already been determined as well What else oh Not the July 18th meeting we're going to review the the input from from all those surveys So again very excited that we have so much participation in the survey. I think that's a good should be a good sign That's that's it It's a lot of work, but Will board members have access to the raw data of the survey Or to do a review of preliminary results just for curiosity's sake Well, I guess we'll see how it's presented at the thing and I we can certainly you know request that I don't think they would deny it But we'll put a summary together and probably just have the backup material. Okay, that would be totally sufficient. That's your leisure measure But that's I think all we have I think Andy's okay with it Yeah, okay All right, then you guys have anything to add on that or We're just pleased with as many responses as we've gotten such a quick. It's impressive frame I was thinking with a short time frame. It might be difficult, but it's excellent and the summer It was nice to see that the town outside the village response was high Yeah Some of the some of the preliminary data of the some of the strata If you could think why how do you reach 18 to 35 year olds? By the way, if you could figure that out you'd be billionaires That's one of the groups that we had trouble We didn't get zero, but we just it wasn't up as much as you know people above 35, but great effort still going on I think they're gonna Grab the final ones that are in paper and then they'll start working on the Right that ends that closes end of day today. Yeah, that's great. Well done All right Next item is a discussion of legal matter for which we're going to be in the executive session So I would like to ask the board to we'll do that after the rest of the business items on the agenda. That's all right So item six consent agenda, I Does anybody have anything they'd like to remove from the consent agenda to vote on separately, okay So we'll get a motion to approve and then we can have discussion I Move that select board approve the consent items with comments our second Second any discussion about the consent agenda? I have one minutes related request Go back in my notes The minutes for June 17th Line 200 There's a sentence that I said something and it absolutely makes no sense to me Line 200 from June 17, I'll get to it in just a second I think if my memory serves is that when we were talking about the Full form that you suggested that if there were no changes from the last time They previously filled out the form that there would be a separate renewal form that would simply state There have been no changes since the last submission Okay, I think that is what I was saying but it is definitely not what this sentence says I think what I was trying to say was if you've already filled out a form and you Need to you need to renew in two years, but you've made no changes just a simple certification form that says I haven't made any changes. That's that's what I was trying to say. So maybe if on line 200 Before the word renewal add the word simpler renewal form or something would that be clear That was it. I read that sentence five times. I couldn't figure out what I was saying So other than that Anyone else No, all right, we have a motion to approve and a second to approve the consent agenda All those in favor, please say aye opposed All right on to the reading file any questions or comments from the select board Did have one comment? Let me take a look Sorry, I'm scrolling all the way past the minutes. It's taking a minute for my computer to catch up That's why I do tabs I'm dead to stop you. I knew where you were In regard to Irene's renors Letter in there. I actually have gone out to Saxon Hill over the last three weeks And walk my dogs around there to make sure that I got a good sense of the entire area So I have the mosquito bites to prove it But just to an FYI for the public is that you know Though I may not have attended, you know the the specific tours that were going on I did go out there personally to look around. Yeah, I used to live on Sand Hill Road and frequent in area I've toured that place many many times So the fact that I wasn't there that one time is meaningless Any other comments on the reading file? All right So all that remains is an executive session item 5e contains the motions that are necessary. So Do we want to take do the motions and then take a recess for Scott to break down his equipment Or do you want us to relocate like we usually do? We could certainly relocate you could just go into the other room so Scott. All right As long as there's no one else in there The bathrooms and so much of the building extends over that way. I feel I feel a little uncomfortable. Okay. Okay Well, then why don't we take we do our motions? We'll take a five or ten minute recess. Let Scott do his thing and Then we'll you know rush Scott. It's all right If I can find us a location in the next five minutes, would that be okay? Absolutely Go in my car Please go ahead I move that the select board make the specific finding that general public knowledge of pending or probable civil litigation To which the public body is or may be a party would place the town at a substantial disadvantage second at Any discussion? All in favor, please say aye. Aye. I move that select board enter into executive session to discuss pending or probable civil litigation to which the public body is or may be a party pursuant to one VSA 313 a1e to include the unified manager and deputy manager second Is there a second? I'll second that too. Thank you. All those in favor, please say aye. I Opposed Okay, we are now in executive session