 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind pump, mind pump with your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. In this special edition episode, home girl, stop by, of Mind Pump. For the first 45 minutes, we had our good friend, Christina Rice in the studio. You almost messed that up. I almost did. And she did, she gave Justin and Adam the tarot card reading. Yeah, they were a little scared. We were doing some black magic in here. You guys invited the devil inside of you. We didn't invite any of that. What'd you guys think of that? Do you guys think they were accurate or what? Oh, I felt it's right on. They couldn't be more accurate. It's fun stuff, so fun stuff. Then we talked to Christina a little bit about her business and gave her some advice and asked her some questions. And we really enjoy her, enjoy her podcast. So make sure you go check her out. And we mentioned Organifi in this episode. Now Organifi is one of our sponsors. We love their organic, non-artificially sweetened products and supplements. If you go to organifi.com forward slash Mind Pump and enter the code Mind Pump, you get a full 20% off any of their products. Now we also mentioned a new company, Planted Design. If you go on our YouTube channel and watch some of our videos, you'll see this awesome Mind Pump sign behind where we're talking. And it's like made out of moss. It's like one of those living wall things or whatever. Beautiful stuff. It upgraded us significantly. They have a website, planteddesign.com or you can visit their Instagram page at planted.design. Then we get into the questions. The first question was, this person is trying to increase their carbohydrate intake but rice gives them more inflammation. What are our favorite carb sources other than rice and grains? We mentioned some of them. Well, we assumed he was Asian. Plugged Thrive Market again there. We did, we did. Now Thrive Market is the number one retailer online for non-GMO organic products. We love them. The prices are insane. If you like to shop organic but you don't like to spend more money, this is the place to do it. If you go to thrivemarket.com forward slash Mind Pump, we got a fat hookup for you. You will get one month for free, $20 off your first three orders of $49 or more and ready for this free shipping. Then the next question was, can you still be overtraining without being sore? In other words, if I'm working out real hard not getting sore, could overtraining still be the problem? The next question was, what is the difference between neat that stands for non-activity, no non-exercise activity, thermogenesis and cardio, regular scheduled cardio. What's the difference? Which one's better? What are our opinions? And the final question, this individual sits down all day long watching cameras. Sounds like they're working security. For eight hours a day at the end of the day, they are, they have no energy to work out in the gym. What can they do to get their energy up so they can go work out? Also, let's not forget, Matt Santa Bollock this month, 50% off, a full half off. This is the deal of deals. It's almost 60, it's like what, it's under $60. Now, Matt Santa Bollock is the maps program to start all. It's the best program to build muscle, build strength and fix your metabolism. If you're somebody who has a slow metabolism, Matt Santa Bollock, get on that program, do a slow reverse diet, watch your metabolism amp up. Then when you go to cut, fat will melt right off your body. Also, we offer bundles. Bundles are where we combine multiple maps programs and put them together for specific goals. For example, our most popular bundle is the super bundle. It's a year of exercise program. So it's a whole year planned out for you. So if you're really serious, get the super bundle and you're from now until 365 days from now, it's all planned out, scheduled out for you. Get phenomenal results. You can find that bundle and all our other bundles and Matt Santa Bollock, the 50% off promotion for July, all at mindpumpmedia.com. Geez, Louise, every time Christina comes in here, it's such a big ordeal. It's such a big ordeal when she gets it. Who wanted to do the tarot card? I know why because you guys are so scared of doing this kind of shit. We're doing the Ouija board next. I think it only works if you believe in it, so. That's right. Well, listen, you looked at it, you touched it, you've already invited it. I rubbed it all over my body. I'm not afraid of it. You actually made love. I shuffled it and threw it all over. We'll do the Ouija board next. What is the history? Do you even know the history of tarot cards and where they came from, Sal, or do you just go start doing them? I don't know the history of tarot cards. I was joking. But I do know that it's probably based on some of the original pagan religions, right? Because if you look at the original pagan religions, worship things like nature, and I think one of their gods was like a ram or a goat, which is then later on, what I've read is that, you know. Turns into Beazabub. No, the artist for Christianity then would start painting the devil to look like that, giving horns and hooves. To try and convert pagans over to Christianity, yeah. There was a big pushback in the day to convert all the unbelievers. Well, Easter was a, you know, Easter was a... The unclean. Easter was a pagan holiday. Did you guys know that? Yeah. Yeah, it was a pagan holiday. I think the original name for it was Oester or something like that, but it was to celebrate spring. And so like the eggs from the eggs or the rebirth, bunny, because bunnies are so fruitful. And what they did is I think they combined the two holidays and turned... And then it got an awesome rebrand. Yeah. Thank God. But I don't know if that's 100% true. That's just what I've read. I see. But yeah, we could, I don't know, maybe Doug can look up, Google the origin, the pagan origins of Easter and see if that's true. Well, Easter, I was curious to tarot. You took it to another direction, but that's fine. You can look up Easter if you like in this non-Easter time of the year. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, wow. Oh, so the 18th century, it began to be used for divination in the form of teratology and cartomancy, or cartomancy. Is that divination? The cards are traced by some occult writers to ancient Egypt or the Kabbalah, but there's no direct evidence. A lot of scary stuff there, Justin. You sure you wanna do this? Oh my God, all the mystics and all that, right? It says occult. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's all the Illuminati shit that everybody talks about, dude. How did you get into this, Christina? I've just been exploring spirituality and I don't know, everyone in LA is into it, so then I started getting into it. Oh, that's a good reason. That's why I'll never live in there. Just around every corner. Just like veganism. I think, no, I wouldn't help on that, I wouldn't help on that. No, I think it's really interesting, it just helps you explore your subconscious. Oh, I see. Oh, I can't wait to see what's in there in subconscious, I really wanna enter this. Now, is it just like horoscopes where they do a really good job of giving you really cool vague- Generals. Yeah, very vague information that you could turn like, oh, that must mean the three guys that I work with. Like you read into it. It's all, you're an awesome person, you're like, oh, shit, it's three. It knows me, it's him. It's so accurate. No, that's not, okay, the point of it isn't to tell you your future, it's just to help you frame your thoughts in a better way so you can better understand yourself. Wow. It's like probing you in a certain direction. It's not claiming to tell you your future. I can see why Sal's drawn to this. Why, because it's probing? I feel like that's a great way to sell it, but not be specific, you know what I mean? You know how they do that? Oh yeah, but it's helpful. It's like, because you know the answer for yourself, right? But you just kinda need someone to... All right, who's going first? Now, is it on the rise in your generation right now? Like obviously it's been around for a very long time, they're all over the place. Do you feel like more people your age, I don't have any friends that ever read or used tarot cards. I had a lot of friends, but it's not like it's like of my two friends. I mean, some guys got into the crystal ball thing. Oh, you know, oh, we really know what we did fuck around with and I still probably have one somewhere in my garage. Remember the crazy eight ball? Oh, yeah, the eight ball. Yeah, the eight ball. Isn't this the same thing? Yeah, that you shake it and it comes up and it's a little... No, that's like a toy, that's a toy. Hold on a second. Oh, it was real, bro. It got me here today. There aren't professional eight ball readers. Like they're professional tarot card readers. It's like people who are psychics and mediums, can use these and you can get some intense readings. Have you guys ever experienced with a psychic? No. I told you, I'll come, I'll hook you up. So I have, was it my cousin? My cousin's wife went to a psychic after she had broken up with her boyfriend and the psychic told her, basically she was gonna meet my cousin, but it was so specific and so weird. She wrote it down and then like a few months later, she actually, she did, she met him and the way she broke it down and explained it, it was so, it's so weird, right? So weird. It doesn't mean it's real. I told you everything that one psychic told me has come true so far. Did they tell you anything about Mind Pump? Yeah, but I told you, I'm not gonna tell you. Oh. Well, what's the point then? I know, right? Are you not supposed to share it? I don't wanna share it. We're gonna be vulnerable and you're not? I don't want it to influence the future. Cause I wanna see it. Oh, it's probably good news. It's probably good stuff. I just wanted to see what happens. That's like the back to the future thing. Both psychics that I've been seeing have both brought up you guys. I mean, if it has something to do with you coming to work for us for a minimum wage, I think that that will come true. Pushing them won't happen. Yeah. I don't know. Is that not right? No, it was the free intern, right? Yes. No. In your dreams. That's available. That's so crazy how they predicted that. No, but yeah, both of them brought you guys up, but everything else has come true. She predicted the end of my other podcast. Both of your psychics predicted stuff to do with Mind Pump? Yeah, they both brought you up. Well, it's like, you just sit there. Like, I don't say anything. And they just say, there's a group of three men. I don't know any other groups of three men. It had nothing to do with you wearing a Mind Pump shirt, either, right? No, I wasn't. We're hard to find, so it's like, they couldn't look it up, right? They couldn't look it up. Well, she didn't say Mind Pump. I just am assuming. See, that was my other theory, was that they're just like really good, like Google wizards. I don't think so. You don't think so, they do a little homework ahead of time? I mean, They don't know you're coming in, bro. Do they? Do you set an appointment ahead of time? Well, these people did, yeah. Maybe they have facial recognition. Oh, you tell them you're coming in. Yeah, but other people, I mean, I guess me more so you could Google, but other people, you couldn't. I tell you, predictive analytics to me is like demystified. I almost want to be a dick when I go in, like, you know, so what's your name? I don't know, you tell me. You know what I mean? They don't expect, like, you can't take it at face value. Like, sometimes she'll say things and then you interpret it differently. Like, with my health stuff, she was like spitting out the names of different tests and she was like, I'm seeing, it says FODMAP, FODMAP. And I'm like, you mean FODMAP? And she's like, yeah. Like, she's just hearing things. Oh, weird. You know what I'm saying? So it's not always accurate. She's like, have you heard of this? I'm getting something coming through and I'll say, oh, do they mean that? She's like, yeah, that feels right. You know, so sometimes she, like the first woman I saw, she just sits there and she just writes, she just writes all these words. Like that she's getting and then she looks and she's reading things to me. Does her eyes roll in the back of her head? She was the one, no. She was the one who told me that I had heavy metals and then I found out I did. And then- That's kind of weird. Heavy metal. That was a lot. Not like that Justin. And then the whole sulfur thing because I found out I'm like intolerant to sulfur. That's a really weird thing for like a psychic to say. Yeah, that's very specific. Yeah, that is very specific. That's kind of crazy. Yeah, that's the thing. It's like she's shooting out specific things. And even with like the podcast, I mean, I guess she could have looked that up, but I didn't, it was so specific what she said about how it was gonna end and when it was gonna end. How much longer after that? She told me like at the time, I would see her in April and she told me it was gonna end within the next eight months. And it happened sooner than that. Wow. But yeah, I don't know. Was that like a breakup for you guys or did you guys just decide that you weren't gonna wanna do it anymore? Or did you really take offense way back when I was giving you a hard time about the name of it? No, it was like a good ending. We just both were not feeling it anymore. Seems like it was the right move. I mean, Sal just came out. I mean, Paleo's just gonna get shit on with this whole bread thing that's coming out. What is that? Did you read that? I mean, I don't think it's gonna affect them, but yeah. That's gonna blow up their whole theory right there. What happened? They found artifacts or they found evidence that these hunter-gatherers from some stale-ass bread. Breeding bread. They may gain new people, right? 14,000 years ago? Yeah, we've been, yeah. No, agriculture's only been around for 10,000 years, modern agriculture. Well, what happened before that? It's just the whole idea. Obviously. I know that, it's a joke, it's a big, but it's weird that they found that. Look, humans ate whatever they could. I think that's the bottom line. Yeah, that's true. That's the argument, right? Especially meat. Trust me, if I could go back in time and throw a bunch of Wonder Bread at cave people, they'd eat the fuck out of it. That's sick. Holy manna! Don't be trying to throw up biblical shit. Yeah, I'm just kidding. Save yourself. I'm washing myself with the Holy Spirit right now. I'm adjusting over here. You guys are just trying to get off topic because you're trying to avoid. Come on, like, do me. You're not scared of your tarot cards. Yeah, throw down, let's throw it down. Do it to Justin first. Okay, Justin, let's do it first. Yeah, because if all of a sudden, like, I see him possessed or something like that, I might pass my tarot card. So you have to ask it a question, right? Is that how it works? Yeah. You have to ask it a question. Oh, I have to be involved in this? Yeah, you do. In your non-dominant hand. Ooh, I like this. In your non-dominant? Yeah. The one you masturbate the least with. This is the strangest. Actually, this is the one. This is yesterday. Yeah, this is the... What do I do now? So shuffle them? So what do I just take like a bunch this way and then I stack them back in? So Justin is shuffling the cards right now with your non-jerk off hand. It's called your receptive hand. Oh, okay. That's your... Well, I don't know, because it won't receive a lot. The medical term. Okay, so while you're shuffling, so you're gonna have to ask it a question and it can't be a yes or no. Now, can he... What kind of question? Is he supposed to be quiet about it or is he supposed to share it out loud? No, he's gonna say it out loud. I would like him to say it out loud. Yeah, what if... I mean, if I wanna know some really answer, I might not want you guys to know. No, you do. You share everything on this podcast. You're not gonna filter now. Okay, that's fair. Yeah, but like, I don't know what I wanna know. Ask about your tummy issues with the cheese and stuff like that, bro. No, I mean, it found metal in hers. That's her psychic, though. You could say something like... It's gotta be something like about the future in direction, right? Yeah, whatever. You could be like, hey, what do I need to know about my future for my health or something like that? Yeah, something like that. Okay, so what's gonna be the state of my health? Okay. In the future. Okay, anything specifically about your health? Keep going. It's good to talk about it as you shuffle. You need the energy to move into the cards about what you're saying. Yeah, like... There's a science to this. Well, okay, so am I still gonna be experiencing heartburn as frequently? Or in regards to heartburn? Yeah, in regards to heartburn. God, you're really bad at this game. I don't know, yeah, this is new to me. I mean, that's kind of a lame question. I wanna know like... Well, dude, why you gotta be so lame in it? That's a good question. Yeah. That's gonna be rich, bro. Yeah, that's gonna be like success. Yes, dude. Let's talk about success. Oh, God. That's good. What do you need to know? I have to churn them upside down. I don't give a shit about your tummy. Yeah, yeah, I understand. Me, either. That's why I was like... They were like trying to prod me for something better. I feel like I could get an answer. No, like, okay, what does 10 years from now look like? 10? Why so far? Because, dude, that's when I know it's waiting. That's way too long. You're trying to find out about him, too. Let's do this again. You're trying to ask your question without doing it. In the next year. Well, you went from 10 to one, about three or five. God, you guys are manipulating my results already. Oh, that's a good question. Five years from now, okay? Like, what does my life look like? Success-wise. All right, let's see this. I think it looks good. Oh, I'm sorry that you're asking me. Yeah, I'm not. The cards are going to determine that cell. See, now, if it says bad shit, dude, we're fucked, too. Well, I want to know that. Well, maybe we get rid of them, bro. Oh, yeah. Bro, the term starts. We got to dope you. You know you're fucked when I ask the same question. It's like, Adam's going to be filthy rich, just as broke as fuck. Oh, shit, bro, we have a breakup somewhere, the only thing that's fun to think about, you know. All right, here we go. All right, so you're going to need to pick four cards. Okay. Oh, this is like magic tricks. It is. This is great. This is where maybe I stick it on my head after I'm done with the forehead. No, just pick four, don't look at them. Just pull them. Pull them out. Before that, you're drawn to. No, you look at them, whichever ones you're drawn to. But you can't flip them. Just don't flip them. So bad at directions. I feel like if he was a kid today, he'd be on Ritalin. Remind me not to play any card games with this guy. I'm so nervous. I'm fucking nervous for you right now. My palms are sweating. Oh, these are good. There's pentagrams in that one, I don't know. His next five years directly influenced me, too. Oh my God. There's a lot of pentagrams. Oh my God, coming out of you with a spider? I don't know about the spider. These are interesting. So you wanna hear about pentacles? Cause you've got three pentacle cards. Yeah, what are pentacle cards? It sounds like testicle. Okay. The suit of worldly possessions, the pentacles often speak to issues involving our home, money, or career. They reflect upon our generosity and greed. Pentacles are ruled by the earth element. When many appear in a reading, it means the focus is on material things, property, income, or the home. Oh. That's kind of weird. I don't know, Justin. That's kind of weird. Okay. And there are 72 cards in the deck. It only 56 of these cards are pentacles. Oh my God. Yeah. What are the odds? Okay. Oh my goodness. I like that this is going. Okay. So your first one is 10 of pentacles. Fulfillment, abundance. So this is basically the- Fuck you, you made it. You made it. It's an overarching situation. And then each of these three are getting more specific. What you need to know about that. Oh, okay. Okay. So abundance, I like that. Well, let her read it. Sorry. So the 10 of pentacles signifies material and spiritual abundance in nearly every area of your life. Fuck you, bro. 10 usually indicates completion. And in this case, the journey was well worth it. So be generous, not only with your money, but also with your wisdom. Provide guidance to those who struggle. You will be rewarded 10 fold. Wow. This really speaks to me. I think that- I got similar cards when I asked the same question. I'm becoming a believer. Maybe because 56 of the 72 are the same ones. No, no. This one's going to say think-style. Okay. The next one. Which means think-style. Is the eight of pentacles. Craftsmanship, skill. The spider is a true master of her craft. She weaves against all odds with skill, intricacy, and confidence. The eight of pentacles requires a similar approach. Hone your skills. You are close to finding mastery at your craft, so strive for it. Pay attention to all the details. In some cases, this card means you need to find a new hobby, something you truly enjoy. Bro, we're not gonna fire you. Start a project. It's obvious. Become good at it. You better not. I'm on the path. You're gonna have to start. You're gonna have to start something new. Start it. Oh, I am actually, but I'll talk about that down the road. Interesting. Okay. What are you looking at me funny for? How was your card, Reid? He had one that was bad. Are you trying to pretend like that one didn't happen? Oh, he didn't tell us that. Oh, it wasn't this. It wasn't a business one. The business ones that I asked. The business ones are all really good. Tell us his bad one, what was it about? Oh, it was. Is it a secret? Yeah, it is. No. Just go, Reid. Don't put them on the spot for now. Seven of pentacles. We'll get it out of them later. Period of contemplation. A curious card, the seven of pentacles shows a period of contemplation and uncertainty. You're looking back at all of your hard work and wondering if it has been a failure or a success. You can't seem to decide. Shouldn't you be reaping more rewards by now? Maybe so, but the mind has control over perception. It's possible your rewards are waiting for you to recognize them. They are not always monetary. It's because he's old. He's old and he's like, what the fuck? That's probably like right now. Crushing it. Yeah. So accurate. Oh, it's so accurate. Mind blown. That's three cards down so far? So I have the chick. This is the last one. The last one is a what? This is the fool. Uh-oh. Oh, he's kind of a fool. Spontaneity, innocence. The fool is ready to fly. His young wings ache for flight and with a single step, he leaves behind the comfort of the nest. To begin the journey through the major arcana. Is he ready? Will he fall? This is a card about beginnings. It points to the side of you that is spontaneous, excited, naive and inexperienced. Others may doubt your abilities. Be ready to be called the fool. Be ready to fall. No matter what people say about you, this is your journey and it's already begun. He's trying to get back his band again, dude. I see his post. I see him practicing the guitar. Bro, you give up that dream, bro. Yeah. You're not gonna be a rock star, man. He's gonna be the first old rock star. Listen to all the money stuff. You got it right here. You may be the one calling me the fool. Oh. I'm the one at the top reaping the roars. Damn it. What if this gets you down? Everybody starts fighting. Like, no, we should have never done this. Yeah. Justin, I'll be really mad at you. It's the devil. You guys can't get rid of me. Bottom line. All right. But did that make you think of anything, Justin? You know, if I wanted to project myself in there, I could see some pursuits that I've taken and also obviously I'm putting myself in something I'm terrible at and then being judged with that and then overcoming that. That's something that I'm always constantly seeking. Well, you also, for a job you do right now, you're providing wisdom for people, right? Yeah, exactly. That was kind of cool. Yeah, that was cool. That was neat. And you are the jokester. Yeah. You know, that's the whole thing about that, so. Right. No, I know. It was interesting. I'll just put it at that. Maybe it's bad. Now, here's where. You're so ready. He's like, game game, don't you? No, what I'm really confused about is sweating. What was the medical term you used for my masturbation hand? Non-receptive hand. Your receptive hand. Your receptive hand. You gotta put it in the right receptacle. I would hardly call this a medical term. Well, what I'm worried about is this. I write with my right, I play all my sports with my left. You're ambidextrous? Okay. You're bidextrous? Yeah. Is that the medical term? Which one do you consider dumb? I would be considered a right-hander, because I write with my right hand. Okay, then that will be your receptive hand. So that's what I'm shuffling. So you hold it there and you use the other hand to shuffle. Okay. Oh, you're a shuffler than me. He's so excited. You know why? Because it's my opposite hand. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Weird for me. I think this whole situation is weird. You gotta play a stranger. You know what I'm saying? You're right. My mom would be so disappointed. Oh my God. Would she be so mad? Mom, if you're listening right now, I'm halfway not believing this, okay? Okay, so what do you wanna know? So I'm currently in the middle of thinking about purchasing a house or renting and we're like, this is happening right now, right? So I'm not sure if it's a smart investment for me to tie up a lot of money in a home right now or if I should rent. So I'm kind of like torn on that right now. I'm torn on if I should buy, if I should rent and where I'm just gonna land in the next one to three years in that area. Is that specific enough? Okay, good. I feel like that's better than Justin. I think that's good. Do you have anything else you wanna say on that? You will. No, that's it. I'd really like to know where I'm gonna be with all that. So, I mean, I'm hoping that these are gonna tell me here. Well, I'm not gonna tell you specifics. Well, I feel like that. Justin's were very specific. I mean, I think if Justin was even thinking about leaving mine, probably it would be the stupidest thing he ever did, right? Well, that was telling him he needs a new hobby. If you read it that way. He just needs a new hobby. Well, that's the guitar thing. I mean, that's obvious to me. He's been playing. He's got a guy come over. That's an old hobby. He needs a new one. Maybe you need to learn how to play the sitar. Did you guys remember when I... Ukulele. One time I did tarot cards and I asked it if I was gonna work for you. Did you really? Yeah. And what did it say? I'm not telling you. Oh my God. Well, I mean, it would already happen. If you would just take the minimum wage job and start from there and work your way up. You think I'm worth minimum wage? No. I just want to see you prove yourself. I think that's the best of you will come out if that's the case. One, two, you know what? This one right here is the one you're hiding from me and I feel like that is... I take it. That's the future one. She was shielding you there, dude. I did. Okay, yes, excellent. Why am I so nervous? My hands are so sweaty right now. He's so excited. Are you for real? Yeah, he's weird, he's sitting weird. Shaking. He doesn't want to get the goat of death. I don't, dude. Yeah, you don't want to pull that because it'll fuck with your head, right? Even if you don't believe it? Yeah. Oh, mine look way scarier than Justin's. This can't be good. Oh my God. I at least had rainbows and stuff. We're all my pinnacles. Oh. Wow. Okay. Mine look powerful though. They do. Mine look like electricity. Yeah, mine look like stairs, stars, not swords and an eagle with a sword or a owl with a sword. That's so weird, it's so different from mine. Mine had the, mine was like, one of them was the king, what was it? The snake with the, anyway, go ahead. You had a ton. We did it like five times. He's eating, he's eating. What do you want? He's like, let's do it. Let's run this back, let's run this shit back. One more time. I like that one. One more time. We did a past, present, future, and he didn't like it. That one was weird. That one was weird. That's the one he doesn't want to talk about. Okay, so let's talk about it. So right now I'm looking at an owl flying with a sword as one card. I'm looking at a bright star with a bunch of little stars. That's probably me and then all the guys that work for us here. Right on the big bright star. Of course you would think that. And then there's a sword with a, almost looks like a snake but it doesn't have a head. So it's like this crazy eight looking thing around my sword with lightning coming out of it. That seems very powerful. And then I've got a card here that looks like a stairway to a moon. So the listeners know what's going on there. Tell us what this is. I like those descriptions. It's like an infinity snake. That's what it is. Oh, is that what that is? I just made that up. Well, that's what it looks like. I guess not even say that. Okay. You've obviously been doing this. So the top card is the nine of wands. Strength, stamina, confidence. As nines usually imply your journey is near completion but on this final stretch you find yourself growing weary. Doubt and fear are running through your mind. The nine of wands asks you to rally your confidence and realize how far you've come. Lift your eyes and take a few more steps. Soon all your hard work will start to pay off. That's interesting. That's pretty good. Yeah, stop being weary. What's wrong with you? Well, you guys just stress me out sometimes too. A lot of shit to think about these days. That's true. So weary. Okay. This next one is the son of swords. Forceful, determined. A dynamic creature, the son of swords is a man of action, not of grace. He pushes forward toward his goal with urgency and determination. To top it off, he's very well educated, making him a force to be reckoned with. Usually he's seeking approval from the patient and just father of swords, who casts quite a shadow onto his son. Working with a stimulating and exhausting young man can prove to be a challenge. That's fucking Sal for sure, right? Is he like my father? He's old. He's like always trying to be smarty pants. I think this is talking about you. I should probably share some wisdom on this. I really, you know what though, I'm a little disappointed that this is not helping my home purchase decision. You need to just hold your horses. Well, maybe not worry, like right? I should just go with it. Oh yeah, it's true in regard to the house. You've been weary about it. Yeah, no, there's anything that's been on my mind, but not bad though. Katrina's been more than I have. I mean, it's been accurate so far in terms of what's going on. Yeah, no, so far we could definitely say this is- So this one says, don't buy a house in the region of, yeah, specifically- This is good, this is good. This is the star. This zip code, star. This is hope, peace of mind. Standing outside on a dark night, you gaze up at the stars and sense glimmers of wonder and hope. Even though you can't find concrete answers to life's many questions up there in the sky, you can't help but feel comforted and renewed, such as the energy of the star card. It is not about actions or situations. It's simply about connecting to the part of you that is hopeful and serene. This force will bring light back into your life and infuse you with positivity. A lovely card. That's a lovely card. You're totally a stargazing. Let's talk about this ace of swords. This one looks wicked. This is the infinity snake with a sword and lightning coming out of it. You're excited about that. I am excited about this one. I feel like if all the cards- This is the one. This is the powerful X caliber. Ace of swords, truth, mental clarity. When lightning strikes, the whole world seems to light up for just one second. It's as though you can see everything and this vision lingers on even through the storm, such as the power of the ace of swords. Your mind will become clear, your thoughts precise. It's a great time to make those decisions you've been putting off. See, now based off of that, would you think it's probably best, in these guys' best interest, just listen to me when I say something? Yeah. No, this is talking to you. Not to that. You're trying to turn everything and deflect it onto other people instead of using that as an opportunity for introspection. Sorry, I'm trying to receive it. That's weird, he never does that. Well, you know, I really like the cards, although I don't feel any more comfort about the fucking house, though. That's because it answered it for you. Oh, it did. You're so busy looking for a concrete answer. It's gonna come to you. So it's telling you that you're going to know what you need to do right before you do it. Okay. That's what it's saying. I need it, Uncle. Is that how it always happens? Yeah. Before I do anything. It's always lightest before the lights go, or it's always darkest before the lights go. So lightest. I think it literally described you perfectly, so I think it was good. I know. Very, very good. Well, we appreciate the... Is anyone else wondering? Now, do these things... Now, I feel like, and this is where I felt like it's like a horoscope thing, is there any bad ones? I mean, could you... I know, right? There are, for sure. Oh, there's definitely bad ones. I was thinking the same thing. I'm like, everything is so positive. Yeah, he got a bad one. I don't know about this. That's why he's all butthurt about it. So you know what? It's interesting about these things, so say what you will or whatever. Believe it or not. He still doesn't want to talk about it. No, no, no. Shut up. You know what I think? It's interesting about this. Maybe it's him we fire. Maybe. If people, when people do this stuff, I can see how it would cause people to... What's the word? Self-reflect, right? Or it could cause people to think about themselves or whatever, so I could see some positives there. Yeah, that's the point, because people don't self-reflect anymore. Everyone's looking for the answers outside of themselves, and the whole point of it is, so someone goes to this, looking for the answer outside of themselves, from someone else to tell them what the right thing is. It just pushes it right back on you. To do, and then it turns it around on you. It says you need to... So how many total cards are in there? Do you know? I think 70, it says... Holy shit, I just made that number up. Yeah, no, you were like right. Let's see. 72, 56 of them. I was a little disappointed that I didn't get all the pinnacles like Justin did. I mean, that was like pinnacle though. He was all pinnacle though. I mean, you asked some money questions and you were told, bro. Yeah. You were for sure told. I mean, chichin. Yeah. It's like money in the bank. I'm really glad that you and I have stayed attached for a long time. Like I'm not letting you go every time. Yeah. I mean, this money train. Maybe that's why I don't have to worry about a house. Maybe you take care of it for me. Maybe. Maybe that's what you're gonna do. Maybe that's good. Don't forget that bet. I got that, don't worry. Maybe you're supposed to do that, Justin. I'll take care of all you guys. Maybe the first bit of like flux of money that comes in. Maybe you're supposed to do something for me first before yourself. For you. I see. Very interesting. Well, anyway. So yeah, so your other podcast is done. It is, thankfully. And in your audience? I mean, I loved it, but I was just tired. Interesting. Is there any new new? No, you don't want to want to know from you because you have this opportunity with us and you don't ever ask these questions, I feel like. You've got, you're such a go-getter. You've got all these business things on like, don't you have questions on like, strategies of what you're doing for the three of us? Don't you want to ask us? I mean, sometimes I ask. I mean, I called you guys. When I found out the podcast was ending. That's true. You're the first you've ever called. You texted us. Yeah, but you could have, why wouldn't you ask us like eight months ago, like do you think it's even a good idea? To do what? To do the podcast. Didn't I start it before? No, we met. We met before. I started the second podcast before we were like friends. You think so? Well, I considered us friends right after we met. I felt like Sal and I were like, we like you. Well, the first day we met. I'm growing. I told you, I said, oh yeah, I'm starting another podcast. We already decided it was already like happening. Do you, do you? He just wants everything Adam approves. No, no, no, no, no. I'm actually, I'm asking. I actually find this is something that like, so we now have 17 year old, a 20 year old, a 23 year old, a 26 year old and a 28 year old all connected and working with or for Mind Pump. And you know, I've been leading people are managing since I was 19 years old. So I feel like I end at that time, a lot of people that were even older than me. So I've seen the difference of what it's like to lead and manage different generations. And something that I find, and I don't know if this is a total over-generalization, but I feel like the millennial generation, they're just different when it comes to looking and seeking for help from others. They have this very, I got this type of attitude, which I think can be a strength. I think that also. I wonder if it's because of the ease of access of information and stuff. That's exactly what I was thinking. Like they could just like, well, I'll figure it. I'll go like research it and look on my phone. Right. Like it took me a year to like break through to Taylor. I don't think I've ever put so much energy into like establishing. Look how exhausted. I know. Like literally. No, I'm serious. Yeah, I know. And I'm very curious to hear your evaluation on yourself and your generation if this is something that I'm just totally off on, or there is something to this because I was really patient with getting him to finally come to a place where he was seeking advice and leadership from me. And to me, that's a real good leader. It brings people to that place before, because if I could have taken an authoritarian type of position and be on the boss, this is what you do. And I knew that was not going to work with him. And I bet that wouldn't work with a personality like you. And so I've put in the necessary work of fostering this relationship to get him to then come to me and ask for these questions. I've had the answers for over a year, but I'm just now getting him in a place where he's finally doing that. And it just took a long time, I guess maybe to earn his respect or find that. What do you think it is about your generation or maybe you in particular? I don't feel that way, I guess, about my generation. I think, I wonder if you're misinterpreting it. Like, I don't feel like I got this. I have so many mentors and people that I look up to. And I mean, most of my friends are over 30 and very successful. And I learned from all of them. And, but I also don't want to overstep my bounds and feel like I'm, you know, I don't want to come in here and be like, give me all the answers, tell me what to do. Like, I'm not entitled to that. So maybe that's what it is. Maybe he felt the same way too. Maybe he feels that like, oh, I can figure it out myself. And so I don't need to. I think it would be just as much a short. You gotta think back to when we were that age. Like, I mean, I think we were all kind of like that. I had mentors as well. And I was on the type of, I'm still this person. Like, if I'm in a room and especially... They're not times when, okay, hold on a second. What about when we work with someone like Casey where you're like, let's just do this and show them. Rather than asking him and saying, you know what I'm saying? Maybe there's a little bit of that too, you know? But how would you feel if I like interviewed guys for the first time and then I was just sitting there pounding with questions like, how do I do this? How do like, you'd feel like, whoa, I don't know you. Depends on the person. I think we wouldn't mind. No, we wouldn't. I wouldn't mind. We would, especially someone like you. And then let me tell you why. Because you, and this is what Sal and I when we first met, you were already impressed with what you had accomplished. You know what annoys me when people ask a lot of questions? When you haven't taken any of the first steps to fucking do anything yourself. Like you're asking me how to make a million dollars when you haven't even gone out and got your business license or done like some of the most basic things. Or when someone asked and then you give them advice and then they come back again and it's the same thing. Right. And they haven't been implemented. Right, and they haven't done anything. Like that to me is exhausting. It's like, okay, you know, you're not even ready for these answers. Like you need to figure this shit out first before you can, no, I don't view you as someone like that. I think that you've accomplished a lot, especially for your age already. So no, I don't think it would be that way at all. I think you could actually probably pull on the t-shirt of any of us at any time and ask as many questions as you want. I think all of us would be very patient with you. Yeah, probably. But I also don't want to be annoying to people. You know. Yeah, but what makes you think that? That's what I'm asking you. You would not be in here doing all these fucking tarot cards and being about self-reflection. I'm trying to get you to self-reflect a little bit on all this and share with us. Well, for me in particular or for, in general, my... You in particular. Yeah, why do you think you'd be annoying? I think a lot of that is just the way I am, the way I grew up. Like I always wanted to do everything myself because whenever I asked questions growing up, I like got in trouble. Oh, well that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. You got in trouble for asking questions? Yeah. Wow. You want to get in trouble here? Yeah, well, it's different. Yeah, like in school, I was always the smartest one in class and everyone would make fun of me when I asked questions. And I don't know, I just learned to associate questions with being reprimanded, I think. Oh, wow. You know, that's a common one, though. A lot of people are afraid to ask, especially in classrooms and stuff like that. They're afraid to ask. You don't want to be like the know-it-all that's always answering everything, right? Right, or just land in a little bit more. Or that you don't know something. Or yeah, that too. Or that you don't know something. You don't want to look, yeah, show weakness or whatever. Now, because of that, do you recognize things now that you're older that holds you back or that it's caused issues for you in your life now? Do you notice those things? Or do you know what those things are? I mean, I think I'm overly cautious. I probably could have taken better advantage of a lot of people that I've met, but I don't like to be so. I don't know. Are you hesitant to take risks, too? In what context? Well, in any context, I mean. Not really. You've made your risk business-wise. Financially, are you not a big risk taker or are you a big risk taker? I don't really worry about it. No, I don't think I have a problem taking risks, really. You're probably not too risk averse considering what you do to support yourself at your age. That's kind of a scary thing for someone to do, right? I mean, yeah, it was scary for me to quit my, like I had a job right out of college and I could have just stuck with it and been fine. And then I decided to quit and just try and support myself, so that was risky. Since you're not very good at asking, what are you, like right now in your business, what are you struggling the most with as far as scaling it and monetizing and growing it? What do you find the most challenging part? And I like to ask this question because we do have a lot of, not only entrepreneurs on this podcast at Listen, but also people that are looking to get started in a podcast and what that's like, like how do you make money doing that? Like what do you find challenging? Well, something that was really hard for me was the whole time management aspect of things and I've gotten a lot better with it now. Like I'm one person trying to do a lot and I really, I have an intern who helps me with some of my podcast stuff, which is really helpful and I need someone, I like need help because I can't spend all day doing admin shit. I can't spend all day answering emails and doing all that when I need to create content because I'm not gonna be able to make more money until I can make more content and I'm burning myself out, spending all day, you know, I see clients all day and then have to spend all this time doing admin stuff. You guys know, like that takes forever and just stupid bullshit. When I could be writing and making more like content to sell and then I burn myself up because my only time to actually do my work is like in the middle of the night. So I just run out of time. So I think that time management was probably my biggest issue in drawing boundaries with people and, but I've gotten better because I've made myself more of a schedule. Is it hard for you to offload work and be comfortable with that? Yeah, well I don't trust anyone. I think that's the big problem. I don't think it's time management. You're pretty damn organized. You're one of the most organized people I've ever met. You're pretty damn efficient. I have to be really good at time management if I'm not gonna delegate more. Well, you're gonna kill yourself. Yeah, but I also don't. It's hard to trust people because every time I ever give someone else a task, except my intern now is great. She's awesome. I love her. Besides her, everyone else, it's like, I'll tell you to do something and then you do it wrong and it would have been faster for me to just do it myself, so. It's always tough to, I don't know, it's almost impossible to scale a business by yourself. That's really, really hard. At some point you're gonna have to trust people to do things for you and so that you can do the things that only you can do. You know what I'm saying? Creating your content, being creative, like that's no, you can't have a lot of freedom in that. Yeah, I have a control issue big time. I mean, for me, the little things, I wanna be in control of my schedule and it was just like two weeks ago that I switched over to using a scheduling app, like on the internet, because I wanted to be in control of emailing people and setting up times for clients and doing all that and just making that change saves me probably like two hours a day, just going back and forth with people, like trying to coordinate times. But that was like scary for me just because it was giving up control, like someone I could just go on my link and pick a time. That was really scary for me. Share with me all the ways that you monetize right now so tell me, and not only share with me the ways you monetize, then also share with me, you don't have to give me specific numbers, but share with me what are the ones that you make the most money off of. So I know you deal with sponsors and affiliates and you make probably commission on some of the deals that you do with that. I know you do some coaching online. What else do you have? Like what are all the different ways you monetize? So nutrition clients are like my main money. That's the main thing. After that, my group coaching program, that makes a lot when it, because every time it runs, I'm making a ton at once. Beauty counter is my next biggest. What was it? Beauty? Beauty counter. Oh, beauty counter. Yeah, like skincare makeup, personal care products. That makes me a good sum of money. I think every, if anyone is listening to this and they are a coach and they are a woman, you need to sign up for beauty counter because it's just an easy way to make income. Just use my code. No, I was telling Jessica, like they're great products. And anyone who's interested in being healthy like needs to switch over to safer personal care products. I mean, everybody needs to, because we're seeing all these issues with cancer and hormonal issues. Everybody has hormone problems now. And this is all tied up in what we're using these toxins we're putting on our body. Hormone issues are so common. That's crazy. Yeah, with everybody. So that's really, you know, just kind of makes money for itself because people who are coming to you, whether it's for fitness or nutrition advice or just health coaching, life coaching. And they're a woman. Yeah. It's an easy transition. Yeah, and then you can switch them over. And seeing with my doTERRA business, like the essential oils, like I use those products in my own life. I use them like for protocols for people, like to help with the gut stuff. They have really great digestive enzymes, all that. So that all ties in. So I make just money through that. And then those are probably the biggest things. And then like my ebook always makes me money. It's coming in. And then sponsor money from podcasts. But that's not really a big part. Yeah, you have to be really big before that starts making like huge money and stuff like that. You know, one of the hardest things I think when scaling a business is to know what not to do. The word of focus. Yeah, I think what, you know, you're in a great position where you have multiple different line items where you can make and generate revenue. But then where a majority of your time may be focused right now, may be in the bulk of what's generating revenue, but it may not be the most scalable out of all of them. Yeah, it's not. And that's why right now I'm like trying, what I know I need to do. Like I've started for more ebooks that I know I'm making a lot of money. And I'm like, I need like a month where I just don't do anything else, but right. And then I'll have all that built up. Because then it's evergreen at that point. Exactly. And then I could just have that. So, but then it becomes an issue of like stopping time to have that. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah. No, of course. You gotta schedule that in. Do you have the ability to take that much time off to be able to focus on that? I don't know. I don't think so. That's why I'm struggling. Well, that's the reason why I think this is a good conversation. I think a lot of people get stuck here in building a business. And this is what can make it so challenging is you have found a way to make a good income for yourself. And if you have dreams of scaling it, it's really tough because now you're in this area. It's like the thing that's probably robbing you of the most time is probably the least scalable of all the things that you do. And you know. It's the money right now versus the money that is generating you the most as you could see. But yeah, turning that off is scary. When I first, when Doug and I first created MAPS, we put that together. I owned my personal training wellness facility. And I was in the pro, I was thinking about, okay, do I focus full time on this? Do I sell my wellness facility? You're like, what do I do? Then we met with, you know, Adam and Justin started the podcast, you know, Mind Pump. And nobody monetized, Mind Pump wasn't anything yet. We were just recording it and we hadn't monetized anything. And then I had an opportunity to work for a large gym company. And they were offering me a really good salary. I would have made a nice deep six-figure income. And I knew the opportunities there. And I thought, wow, that would be more of a nine to five, which would give me time to focus on, you know, Mind Pump and I could do this. And I had to make this decision, like cut what I'm doing now, cut my money off completely, and then put the focus on this dream or this bet that I had made that was, you know, MAPS and Mind Pump. And it was a tough decision. And I had a family at the time to support at a house. And I had a family and it was like, okay, like if this doesn't go well, and here's the thing, and I think you're like this too, Christina, what would help me make the decision to do that, to make that decision, to cut it off and take the risk, was I had confidence in myself in the sense that if it didn't work, I knew I could get back on my feet, no problem. I knew I could get a job and I could make money if I had to. I was confident in that. And so that gave me a little bit of strength. And I think you're kind of like that too. Like I'm pretty sure you could walk in anywhere and get hired. You're pretty damn conscientious to smart. So- I like about the coaching that you do right now because it's probably, like you said, it's the one that generates the most revenue. It also is what takes the most time for you. But it's also probably the easiest for you to stop doing and then come back in if you needed to, right? So this reminds me before we started Mind Pump, I was virtually coaching. So when I first started my whole fat to fit journey, I started to get a lot of people, probably just like you, getting nutrition questions, sharing your own personal journey. And, you know, I started off at a very reasonable price to do coaching. And then I started to refine it, probably really similar to what you do too. The first time I started doing it, I was like, oh, okay, these tend to be the same questions that people need help with. Like I can be proactive and be able to answer these ahead of times. Oh, these are the things where people are struggling with these. Okay, so I started to refine it. As I refined it each time, I would start to increase my price. And then I got to a point where I was making really good money, but then I was kind of capped out on how many people I could help. Like once I hit that like 15 to 30 people, it's just really, really tough to give that really good quality service. And I'm not a very organized person, so maybe you're more organized and you can maybe get out, squeeze out a few more than I could. But at that point, I realized like, well, this is cool that I have built a model that I know can be successful, that I could fall back on to make and generate revenue if need be. But this is not what I think I want to do for the rest of my life. So, you know, letting go of that money initially at first is always challenging because it is. It's the, you've already proven that, you've built it, but learning to look at all the things that you, and we still to this day, Mind Pump struggles with this. We got, you know, four visionary minds that are constantly, you know, looking at a business that's growing and thriving and all its opportunities and are like coming up with ideas. And the thing that I'm always like, listen, if it requires a minute of our time, I don't like it. It's not a good idea. If it requires a minute of us having to do something now. Of us actually ourselves doing that. Yeah, that we have to do. If we cannot delegate it or build it and automate it, I'm not interested in it because we've already proven that. It'll slow us down. Yeah. It'll limit you. And it will take from other parts of the business that are more scalable that can continue to generate more revenue. So I think that, you know, you have found yourself in a very similar situation and need to probably look at the areas within your business that have the potential to scale more. And even though initially you might make less and it might be scary to do it. So. And the way I look at it too with that is. There's some tarot cards for you. Yeah, there's your Adam's tarot cards. If you do this. I thought that was like a little mastermind meeting. Yeah. If you do that, no masterminds are garbage. Yeah, $600. If you do the scale part, let's say you focus on this aspect of your business that does start to scale and scale and scale and becomes automated where you're not involved. Then if you go back and think, wow, you know, I am really fulfilled by working with people one-on-one. You can still do it, but you can't do the reverse. It's very difficult to go with working with people all the time, takes up all your time and then also build something that you can scale and that's automated. Yeah. So it just gives you freedom to be able to do it all. Yeah. And that's kind of the pickle I got myself in. And I've been toying with that because I also realized, I mean, what I thought I wanted four months ago is not what I want anymore because they burnt myself out. But now it's hard to like, I'm like, I know that I have to kind of wean off seeing people, but I feel so emotionally pulled to these people and help. Like I have people who are, I mean, I'm gonna be, I'm gonna be working with for the next three to six months, like, and I know that. And I'm like, okay, realistically, when can I take a month off in a year? Because I have, you know, and I also- That's your integrity talking too, which is, that's a good thing. I had clients that I trained for 10, 12 years that I had to say bye to. Yep. Yeah. And I also have this issue. I feel like I have a lot of mental clutter, which is I'm the type of person that works best when I'm just focused on one thing at a time. And so for me, I feel like my productivity has gone down because I'm like, okay, client now, podcast then, blog post then, like work on ebook later. I'm like, I can't even focus. Instagram here, like video there. You know, it's just too much in my head. So I can't focus on any one thing. So that's why, yeah, I don't know. But I mean, I've actually, I don't know. It's interesting that we're talking about this right now because like this week I've been talking to people and I'm like debating just getting a side job and then stopping clients so that I can just focus on my own stuff that I can't scale. But I don't know. It's a lot. Imagine if you were taking that opportunity with Mind Pump just to make a little side money on the side. Not for minimum wage. Crazy, right? It'll be a little bit higher. Yeah, it'll be a little bit higher. Minimum wage. Negotiable. I think what we were originally talking about doing is giving you like a very minimal base salary that gives you the comfort of like, okay, I've got my living paid for. You could still maybe coach a few clients on the side so you could survive. And then that allows you to focus your energy on the things that could probably scale your business. There's a lot of opportunities here too. But I wouldn't have anything paid for because San Jose is more expensive than LA. Sure you would. Sure you would. Look how much space the studio has. Yeah. You have to look in the corner. You know what's funny? If I didn't have kids, I think all of us. He needs a hammock. Yeah, I'm just kidding. You're not going to look down. Taylor's looking for a roommate, you know what I'm saying? Hey. San Jose. He's cool. He'll fight over the hair spray. He's totally cool. San Jose is way better than LRG. I can't live in San Jose. So much better. You live in LA. How can you say that? Unless I was getting a huge sum of money, I don't think I could live in San Jose. See, that's backwards thinking. What does it do here? Work. Become successful. Work. I told, do you guys know how much bigger you guys would be if you weren't in San Jose? Oh, if we were in LA? I mean, you'd explode. Like, gosh, I said the verses. You know what's funny? Do you know that? It's true. Oh, let me tell you something, though. And this is getting back to the business and the importance of it. Exploding is not the priority of Mind Pump. Building a efficient business that runs almost by itself is more important than exploding facts. But what if you could do both? You have to. Well, I know. We're working into that. Here's the thing, like, if we were to explode right now, and right now we're in a better position than what we were a year ago, but we used to talk about this, the worst thing that could have happened to us was Mind Pump to go viral. Us to go viral when we did not have the systems in place to sustain a long-term business would be silly. This is the mistake I see fucking so many people in our space making. They're so caught up on hacking the algorithm, on becoming famous, on growing and getting out and reaching more people that they have not put the infrastructure in to sustain that long term. It's building on a sand foundation. I agree, but do you not feel like right now here's a place where it could help you? We're at a perfect, we're at a beautiful place right now. Mind Pump quarter, Mind Pump quarter over quarter, slowly, consistently grows. That's right. I would not, if we had some. Like a good weight training routine. Yeah, it is. It's not a quick, you know, lose fat in 30 days. I think this is a mistake the generation right now that uses all these social platforms makes is they, we're all chasing to get 100,000 subscribers. Like, no, I don't want a crazy amount of subscribers if we don't have a really sufficient way to monetize correctly and a lot of businesses don't. And yeah, you would make a lot of money, you'd have a flood of it right away, but the same people that- We care about conversion rates. The same people that get a flood like that don't know what to do with that money. You know, and I would, even like someone like yourself, what if I told you like, you know, Christina, I have $5 million I want to invest in you. Can you honestly say, and maybe someone listening right now, oh yeah, I know exactly what I would do with that 5 million. Well, you might know exactly what you would want to do with that 5 million, but whether that's a smart strategy or not, most people have no fucking clue. And most people are wrong. Yeah, like, would you know where to spend that? Where did you know where to invest at? Right. That's a good question. I know what I do. That's different. Yeah, that's different. A trip to Fiji is not good enough. No, that's not what I would do. No, but I mean, exactly. So, you know, what would you do? We have a soccer stadium now here. Come on. Yeah. What would you do? What would you do with 5 million dollars? I mean, I would just... I'm giving it to you. I would put it in the bank and I'd live in focus and I'd bust out like five books and a few programs that I can sell. Oh, well, that's too much money for doing that. See what I'm saying? No, why? No, no, what I'm saying is you don't need $5 million for that. Right. So the point of what Adam's saying is you don't know... Well, you're supposed to have to use it all. Well, that's the point. The point is, are you in a position to take an influx of money and maximize it? Right. That's the question. Not whether or not... Oh, that'd be making me comfortable and I can... Like you're watering all the plants that are already out there. You don't need 5 million. How much do you really need to do that? 100 grand, 50 grand? $5 million. Exactly. See what I'm saying? Right. So you want to be in a position... Well, what would happen if you went viral tomorrow? Right. What if this episode blows your business up and all of a sudden anything and everything you monetize makes you a quick fucking $2 million. Like real quick. Like literally 100 million people all of a sudden fall into your podcast, your YouTube, all the stuff that you're doing, your Instagram, everything, and all the things that we talked about that you monetize. Boom, you're getting the max amount of clients for the max dollar. You're commissioning out on all those things so you just get this flux of people and you make a quick million to $2 million. What do you do with that money? I mean, I told you, I wouldn't do anything different. I don't know how much money it is. That's my point. That's my point. You would want to be able to... You would want to know where to reinvest that back into the business so it generates that five times over and doesn't stop for the next three months. That's a good position to be in. And that's why slow growth done the right way is better. That's why you see a lot of businesses flashing the pan. They explode and then disappear. It's like a house of cards. I feel like we're arguing in a circle because my point is not that you should have gone lose to LA originally. No, no, no, no. My point was just that if you were in LA right now, you would grow more. And that's my point where I don't want to live in San Jose. Being in LA is advantages for me because I get access to people. Who's out here besides you? That's all you need. We give you the access. That's all you need. No, but... That's all you fucking need. That's not true. Sure, absolutely. That's not true. There's so many people who are in LA. Like I make so many connections because of that. And like, okay, I ask you why you wouldn't move. You have a family. Sure. What about me? Like I have a life there. Like that's where all my friends are. Not really. Most of your life is maxed out with all the work you're doing. Let's be honest. That's not true. Let's be honest. I watch your Insta story. You don't know my life. Sure I do. You don't know me. You do 24 Insta stories a day. I know most of your life. There's only about 15 minutes that's left out of that. You think that if you see my 24 Insta stories, which amounts to what, five minutes of my day, you know my whole life. This is one of my biggest pet peeves. People think they know my whole life because they watch my Instagram stories. That's your whole life. No, it's not. I think we're supposed to mention that. Yeah, well, Doug put that up there way too late for us to put it right there. We'll put it in the pot. We'll put it in the episode. We'll figure it out. Yeah, we'll get it in the episode for sure. Well, whatever. My point is that San Jose is boring. San Jose is whack. No, what are you talking about? LA and San Jose aren't really that much different. No, they're not. You can go out of Santa Cruz. Yeah, you're talking about being around famous people. How are they similar? Dude, Netflix is up here. What are you talking about? You guys don't have Erwan. Whole Foods is the same difference. No, it's not. Oh my God, it's not. I'm cringing. Oh God, Erwan. Erwan has a little bit better quinoa. Who gives a fuck? It's not a big enough difference. We have like real farms. No, I mean, you're right. In the entertainment, podcasting, you know, space like that, LA has got a ton of people. Mm-hmm. But how do I not live in LA? I probably would have never met you. Right, but that doesn't mean you stay there. I don't know if you lived in San Jose. I'm sure we'd cross paths. That's true. We would have met you a lot earlier. And what's better, having, you know, 50 acquaintances in your space that you know or one really powerful, strong one that actually cares about you? Which one is more powerful? That's in your corner. I don't have some connections there that care about me. I didn't say you don't. I'm just asking, what do you think is more powerful? What have they done for you? Right. What have they done for you lately? Lately. What? What have you done for me lately? What are, okay, what is your ending with this conversation? There is no end game. What would happen if tomorrow I moved to San Jose? Nothing, because I'm not giving you anything. Yeah, see. So my point, I wanted people to, I think it's a really good- He's planting seeds right now. I think it's a really good conversation just to have because a lot of, we've met a lot of people in this space that are in a very similar space as you are, meaning like where you're at with your business. And, you know, my pump has not gone viral and we don't have a million people that subscribe to the YouTube or the podcast right now. But we've generated a very successful business that's continuing to grow quarter over quarter and we'll continue to do that over the next five to 10 years because we've built an incredible foundation. And that is far more, we may never, you know what's great? We may never get more listeners, although we are, but we may never get that much more listeners, but we will be able to make $5 to $10 million a year off of what we're building. And I tell these guys all the time, this is gonna be the hardest decision that we will have to make once we are paying ourselves the money that we always wanted to pay ourselves. We'll look at each other and go, do you wanna keep growing this thing? Or do you want to maybe even let go and thin some of the herd and pay ourselves even more and just cruise and do what we love, the parts and the aspects of the business that we love? And that is an incredible position to have created for yourself and to be in. And most people won't reach that because they have no clue how to get there because they're focused on the wrong parts of building a business. And I find it really common in the younger generation right now because of the social media fake bullshit because we see people who have a million YouTube subscribers and they're driving their Mercedes Benz around and they're showing all the cool aspects of their life. Oh, he's a rented one. So right, right. So we think they're really successful and they're really good business owners and they're not, they're not at all. And so that's all I had. I'm just asking that because I like to hear dialogue from someone your age. No, that's a common misconception. People think that if they get more followers on Instagram, they make more money and has nothing to do with it. Like there are people with so many followers who don't make any money. There are people who have no followers who have killer businesses and are making a ton of money. And that's one of the things like, I get asked that all the time by people. This is, I think goes back to the not wanting to ask questions and nothing annoys me more than when someone acts like they wanna like get to know me and the first thing when we sit down, how do I build a following on Instagram? Fuck you. You're not gonna build on that, dude. I think you're sitting on $300 to $600,000 a year. Don't even realize it. Okay, what do you want me to do? Well, I think you first have to find a way to get out of what's making most the money right now, which is taking up most your time, which I know exactly what that's like. No, I know and that's what I'm trying to do. I love the idea of you getting going down the path of the eBooks and getting those done. Those gotta be a priority for you, for sure. But that means you gotta eat fucking top ramen for the next couple of months and live poor. I can't, I'm not paleo. You know what I'm saying? Bread now is back on the menu. But you definitely need to, and or, and the way you can kind of naturally do that, my recommendation would be to like naturally, so if you're, I don't know, how many coaching clients are you doing right now? Give me a number, approximately. I have people who come in, you mean like who are locked in? Where you're making the most money, yeah, the ones that you're- Locked into a thing. Sure. Probably like 25. Okay, so those 25 people, what I would do is I would start to, I would increase my rate significantly and hope it drops to 12 people. Mm-hmm. And those 12 people are now are paying you, hopefully almost the same money you were making for 20, and even if it's a little bit less, it's okay, because you're gonna lose just a little bit of money, way less responsibility because you're only helping 12 people that would have been willing to pay you the extra $100 a month or whatever that you were considering not raising up to. And now you can use that time to free yourself up to knock out the things that are more scalable in your business. That's what I would do. Yeah, that's kind of what I did, what I'm doing. Well, I would do it again. 25, still too many people then. Go higher. Well, because people are finishing out things. Okay, okay. So you're in the middle of that happening, right? Yeah. Okay, good for you. All right. So that should hopefully free up a bunch of time. Beautiful. Yeah, but my point is that's why it's like all in the future, because people are locked in to packages for like three to six months, right? So I'm like, I can raise things now, but I still have to finish out people, you know? Right, right. That's understandable. Yeah, so it's just time. That's near future though for you. Three to six months is no big deal. It'll be here before you know it. And if you're already thinking like that, that's your transition. I think that's an incredibly smart thing for you to do. Okay, good. If I'm out of approved, I guess I'm ready to do my thing. There you go. I guess we can bring it on your way. That's it, enough tarot car reading for today. That's all I needed. Yeah. Although I'm pretty excited about those readings. Justin. About your tarot. I am, yeah. Your tarot. Tarot. Tarot cards. They told me what I needed to know. Yeah. That I'm doing everything right. You know what it is? This is what it is. As I was listening to your guys' readings or as I listened to other people's readings, I try to pretend that they're for me and see if my mind automatically tries to connect it to things, do you know what I'm saying? And it does. And that's usually what happens. That's usually what happens. It's just like the astral signs or whatever. Dude, this hot weather, man. Ugh. It's just stagnant in here. It's not moving. It smells like armpits. That and the flies. Probably me. I hate when the flies pick up right now and that's what's happening right now where I gotta close the door. You know what, speaking of flies, I'm really impressed, gave my biggest thing that I was nervous about when Taylor started, we let Taylor take a hold of the front office area. And he did that, the plant design. Oh, the planted design? Yes. So when he did that, so I reached out, I know somebody who had that thing. You can see it on our YouTube channel. We've already done some videos, right? Well, that's in the background. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It looks beautiful, yeah. But before we were gonna get it, the thing that we were going back and forth on is I had reached out to a buddy of mine who'd gone. You know what, spiders? He said that it attracts bugs. And I'm like, how does it attract bugs if it's fake? It's not, it's real moss. No, it's fake. No, it is fake. It's fake. You didn't know that was fake? But it's still a moss. I thought it was real moss, though. It doesn't. That's cool. I mean, this doesn't. Look, look, look, I'm gonna read up here. I think it is. It's made with real moss that is stabilized. Boom. What do you mean stabilized? They do something to it to freeze it where it is, but it's made with real moss, right there. Wouldn't it die? Yeah. No, I think. You don't give it water or anything? No, you don't have to take care of it. You don't have to water it. Well, obviously. I was like, how's it still? We've had it for months and nobody's watered it. In good condition. That's crazy. No, no, no. But it's nice looking. Well, shout out to those guys, man. They did a good job. We appreciate the love over here at Mindful. Stepped our game up for us. That was huge, right? Hey, Doug, bring on the bird, yeah? Yeah. This quiz brought to you by OrganiFi. For those days you fall short on getting your organic veggies or whole food nutrition, OrganiFi fills the gap with laboratory-tested certified organic superfoods to help give your health and performance the added edge. Try OrganiFi. Totally risk-free for 60 days by going to OrganiFi.com. That's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com. And use a coupon code, MINEPOMP, for 20% off at checkout. Our first question is from Beno Greenaway. Looking to increase my carb intake, but rice seems to increase my inflammation in my elbow. What's your favorite go-to carb other than rice and grains? That's interesting. Sounds like he noticed. Sounds like he has a food intolerance to rice. I was going to say, that's not very common, right? No, rice is really good for me. It's easy to assimilate. You know where there's a larger percentage of people with rice intolerances? Asia. Asian countries, because they obviously eat more rice. Did you look him up to see if he was Asian, Doug? No. Beno and Greenaway is not, I think that's a Northern European name. Really? We're totally assuming. Well, you know, one of the ways that, like so I increase calories, so when I am trying to gain or put size on and I'm trying to increase calories, I just make like my own homemade smoothie. So I'll take like the... I had one of these, they're good. Yeah, no, I mean, fruit will jump your calories real quick. So, and I'll pair it with like our Organifi smoothie. And I like Organifi when I'm doing like fruit smoothie. So I go back and forth, I've shared this before on the podcast, that I use both our Organifi protein and then I also still use whey. I like the whey when I'm doing things like chocolate, peanut butter, my coffee smoothie that I make. If I make fruit stuff, so strawberry, banana, smoothie, things like that. If or even if I put like, all even if you really want to bump the calories up, like I'll put yogurt and stuff inside the smoothie. So I like doing that so I can actually control my calories and intake a lot of it to eat because I'm measuring out the food. How many calories are your shakes typically? Oh, it depends on the goal. Back in the day when I was a kid, I used to make shakes that were, did you guys make shakes when you were a kid? Back in the day, just massive calorie shakes? Oh yeah. Yeah, I used to throw a few raw eggs in there with like peanut butter and then like- Whole milk. Whole milk and chocolate and yeah, it was a total calorie bomb. Oh, it's terrible. I like the Organifi protein with the green juice. Have you guys tried mixing the two? I actually have not. Protein with the green juice. Yeah, so vanilla, the vanilla Organifi protein with the green and just like that. Just either in coconut milk or water. I like chocolate and milk together or chocolate and mint together. So I could see doing that. So I'll try it out. But I mean, this person is obviously trying to chase getting more calorie. I think they're trying to get more starches, more carbs. Yeah, more, and what I think that obviously that's probably to gain. The fruit is a good answer to that. Yeah, so I think fruit's like a really good answer to that. Fruit's good. The problem with fruit, for me at least, is when I, it works great for smoothies, but if you try to eat a shit ton of fruit, good luck. Yeah, you're gonna be there for a little while. No, it's great to just do it. Here's a great starch. Here's a fantastic starch, especially if you tend to have food and tolerance issues. Now, normally I would recommend rice because rice seems to work for most people, but if you're in one of those rare situations or rare instances where rice doesn't work for you, try buckwheat. Buckwheat is an excellent source of carbohydrates. It's gluten-free. It's easier to digest than rice for a lot of people. It is even for me. Like I can eat a shit ton of buckwheat and I feel like I ate nothing in my gut. What is quinoa? Like is there gluten typically in quinoa? No, quinoa is gluten-free. Quinoa is relatively high in protein for being a, I don't think it's a grain. I think it's a seed. I think it's a sprout or something. I believe so, but it's another really, really good source. I haven't eaten that a long time. Have you guys ever tried buckwheat, like hot buckwheat cereal? I've had buckwheat. You use pancakes. So when you go to whole food cells and actually Thrive Market has it as well, you can buy this, it's like this mix and it's a powder and you, not really a powder. It's like ground up. Cream of wheat or whatever. Mix it with some water, throw in some butter or you can throw in milk or you can throw in cheese, Justin, or bacon or whatever. It's fucking amazing. What brand are you using from Thrive, do you remember? I don't remember the name of the brand. Is it the same one as the pancake mix, people? No, you got me on that and I was ordering that from Thrive for a week for a hop. No, there's a different one. I'm so bad with remembering games. But you turned us on to the protein pancakes from Thrive and I started ordering those. The paleo, those are the paleo pancakes or whatever. Little birch benders. Yes, that's what it was. Birch benders, no, no, no. No, this is specifically buckwheat itself. So buckwheat's one of my favorites. So you take that and then you mix it in something? You just make it like hot cereal. So you put it in water, so you boil water, you add it to the boiling water and you stir it. Just like you're making cream of wheat. So is it like cream of wheat or? It is, except it's a little bit, it's not quite as like, I don't know how to explain it. It's in between cream of wheat and rice in terms of its consistency. Or oatmeal. Yeah, but it's super, super light. It's very starchy. It's dense with carbohydrates. It's one of my favorite, favorite sources of carbohydrates besides rice. I do love, love rice and I can digest rice pretty well. What about like potatoes, sweet potatoes? Potatoes are excellent, sweet potatoes. The only problem with like sweet potatoes and yams, I think they're a great source for someone who's trying to lean out and who's like, cause it's not getting the calories. Yeah, it's not very calorie dense. I mean, you can eat a whole sweet potato and it's only a couple of months. Why am I adding like butter, bacon and you know what I'm saying, cheese. By the end of the day, it's like a lot of calories. I can overeat potatoes too. For some reason, potatoes will actually bother my gut if I eat a whole bunch. Cause trust me, I've tried like, you know, calorie loading on all kinds of different types of starches. I've done it where I've eaten lots of potato. I've done it where I've eaten lots of rice, lots of corn, the ones that'll, and these are all gluten free cause I'll stay away from gluten for me personally. I'm assuming this person too. The gluten free sources of carbohydrates that seem to work best for me and for my clients are white rice, buckwheat and quinoa. That's like the winners. Is sourdough bread considered no gluten or low gluten? Lower gluten. Lower. Because of the fermentation process, it breaks down the gluten. So people who have, if you have celiacs, you can't eat sourdough, right? Right, right, right. But if you're, so I've been, I cut out a long time ago, I cut out bread, tortillas, things like that. And I've recently, in the, probably just the last few months, reintroduced sourdough bread. It's become a consistent thing almost every morning you saw me eating today. I've been eating it with my bacon and eggs. You just, as long as it's real sourdough, you know a lot of places will make bread and then they'll flavor it to taste like. To flavor it, yeah. And it's fucking regular bread. Cause I've had some that have just really, I got a violent reaction, you know, versus the other ones that were like, it's a fucked up move. It is. You have to look at the ingredients and it'll tell you what they're doing. I knew it. And it'll say fermented, you know, whatever in there. Well, so far I've been lucky cause whatever Bill's is serving over there, it seems to be sitting pretty well with me. Where normally when I do like regular bread or when I was doing wheat bread before, I'd definitely get like a bloat right after. Do you really? Oh yeah. What about pasta? You know what, I haven't had pasta in a long time, dude. Yeah, I haven't done pasta in a really long time. So I bought some gluten-free pasta, but it was made with corn and rice. And I should have known better cause corn, I can eat corn, but if I push corn too hard too, I'll start to get some gastro- Corn doesn't work with me very, very good. You don't even digest it, it comes right out. Yeah, yeah. It's just, there it is. And it really bothered my gut. So now when I go gluten-free pasta, it's gotta be just what, it's gotta be just the rice option. But it does suck if you're somebody who's got an intolerance to gluten and an intolerance to rice because almost every gluten-free food you're gonna find, that's gonna be the alternative, right? Buckwheat, I can tell you right now, I think is gonna make, it's gonna start becoming much more popular. In Russia, in Eastern Europe, buckwheat is a staple. That's one of their number one sources of carbohydrates. Really? Yes, it is. Okay, you got me sold now, I'm gonna try it. Oh, thanks, Doug. Doug pulled off your three. So organic buckwheat, oh, that's the, see there is a pancake one, but it's not birch bender, it's arrowhead mills. Both of them are. And they make one that's maple buckwheat, flake cereal, and then there's a hot cereal that you can make as well. $3, $4, I tell you what, thrive market man. Shout out to them, it's not even a commercial for them, but I tell you what, these guys fucking kill it. Exactly, exactly. Next question is from VMA, Mr. Black. Can you still be overtraining without being sore? You know what, this is a good question because how many times we've mentioned on the show that being really, really sore is an indication that you did too much. So I can imagine people who are thinking, well, I mustn't be overtraining because I'm not sore. I'm not sore. That's a really, I'm glad you picked this question because I actually would, might even venture to say that it's more common that there's people that are overtraining and are not sore. And that's part of why they're overtraining is they don't realize that they're overtraining because they're still chasing being sore and their bodies just become so adapted to whatever movements they're doing or whatever program they're following. So they just keep adding volume, adding volume, adding volume. And so the body is not really getting sore from that. And so they think they're not overtraining but they're just constantly caught in what you'd call the recovery trap all the time. So this happened to me years ago. The first time I really learned about, because I used to think that I used to think, well, if I'm not sore, I mustn't be overtraining. And so years ago, I was probably 27 maybe, 27, 28. So it's about over 10 years. I went back and started reading Arnold Schwarzenegger's Encyclopedia Bodybuilding again. And that's a book when I was a kid. I used to look through all the times. One of my favorite, favorite. If you need a reference guide for old school free weight, mostly free weight exercises, it's the best one there is. It just lists every single one. So I was going through and in the back, it lists recommended workouts and then it also tells you Arnold's workout. So like what Arnold used to do in preparation for Mr. Olympia. Now Arnold was known for doing high volume, like fucking high volume and high frequency. He would do these double split routines where you'd work out once in the morning and then again, once at night. And he would split the body, but he would also hit the whole body three to four days a week. So that guy was a total maniac. So I'm going through this thing and right around this time, I'm experimenting with more frequency and I'm realizing that it's working for my body. And so of course I do the next logical thing that my male brain makes me do, which is fuck, we're just gonna do, we're just gonna go for it and do the routine that Arnold did. So that's what I did. Me and my workout partner decided we would do a double split routine and follow Arnold's actual routine, which was literally 20 sets per body part or more, per, and it was three times a week. So I was doing 60 sets per body per body part per week. Shout out to Joe Donnelly. So here's what happened. The only book he read. Here's the crazy thing that happened, right? I did this thing and obviously of course the first week I got really, really sore. But by the second and the third week I stopped getting sore and I thought that that was a good sign. I'm like, oh shit, this is totally working. I'm gonna totally be progressing. No, as I kept pushing that program, not only did my body stop progressing but I started regressing to where my strength started to decline and my performance started to decline. I started having sleep issues, like all the classic- Aren't those good indicators too, right? Your strength diminishes significantly and I've had that actually happen where I was just honing in on this same way of training to the peak of it and I'm testing myself and I did not, I just felt my strength starting to get away from me almost immediately. I think that's how you've mentioned this before and this is when I really pieced this together was, because this was definitely, I was a classic case of the overtraining for sure. I just figured the more I trained, the more I lifted the bigger I was gonna get and that was just how it worked and I just was never able to consume enough and I wasn't letting myself completely recover to grow and build like I need to and the first sign where I started to pieced this together was when I would start letting myself have two or three days off in a row and then when I come back that fourth day and I was actually stronger and so I think that's a good indicator for people is if you take days off consecutively and get back in the gym and when you go to lift again, you're as strong or significantly strong. It means you did something right, which was take time off. Right, yeah. So that's the big one. I mean, here's the thing when it comes to judging whether or not something's working for your body, there are lots of signs and you have to look at all of them. It's not just one. Now one sign can many times be pretty clear. Like if you're super sore and you can't move, you don't need, I don't need to necessarily look at other signs and signals to tell that I'm probably doing too much. But you gotta look at all of them and when you're trying to judge whether or not you're doing too much, excessive soreness is one of them, but it's not the only one and it doesn't have to be present. The other ones include my favorites, which are my performance. If my performance in the gym starts to decline and I'm working hard, then many times that's telling me that okay, I need some time off. My sleep is another one. Now if I keep pushing it, this is what I notice. If I keep pushing it, keep pushing it and I'm hard headed about it. And my workouts keep, I try to keep ramping them up and my performance isn't increasing. The next thing to follow is my sleep. And I'll notice I'll go to bed and I'll feel restless. It's a very strange feeling. Like I'm exhausted, but I can't sleep. I experienced this, especially when I was training in jiu-jitsu. We're really, really hard in pushing my body, where when you're sparring really hard, you're not necessarily monitoring your intensity because you're sparring with other people. So you have to push yourself and I would come home and I wouldn't be able to fucking sleep. I'd lay there exhausted and I'm like, why can't I? You can't pick your arms up or legs, but yeah, you just can't sleep. You ever get that for football? Yeah, football, especially when we're in like just like double days and we train like twice a day. And then we'd practice in between and it was just like my body was just shredded to bits. And I was like so overly exhausted, but I couldn't sleep very well. And I would wake up and it would just repeat the cycle again where I would just felt like just worthless at that point. Yeah, the other one is a loss of libido. That's another sign of overtraining. Like when I'm pushing my body too hard, I just don't have the same kind of libido. Libido is actually a great signal by itself to tell you kind of if you're doing the right things. Like I know when my workouts are on point and I'm getting stronger, my libido almost always kind of follows along. I don't know if you guys noticed that as well. Where I feel like, oh shit, everything's on point and I'm also feeling more random. Yeah, I toned down my masturbating a little bit. You did? Yes, a little bit. Yes. So those are the things that you know to really pay attention to. But I think loss of performance is a really good one. I also remember back in the day, I used to hate this. I don't know if you guys ever heard this, but back in the day people would say this stupid line which was, there's no such thing as overtraining. There's only under eating. Did you guys ever hear that? That was a popular saying for a lot. What a dumb, what a dumb. There's a lot of athletes out there that don't even believe overtraining exists. Which is hilarious to me. No, it's for sure exist. I would say, look, if you're not performing, if your performance isn't improving, if your sleep is off, if your body's not changing, there's a few things you could look at. Change your routine. You could look at taking some time off or you could look at working out more and working out harder. Yeah, I think you guys hit on it as far as taking that time. Maybe it's just a day, maybe it's a week off. And then just, if you even have an inkling that you've been pushing it really hard, just do that. Experience it. See if it either charges you a ridiculous amount or if it's just not real noticeable, but it's not gonna hurt you to see whether or not you've been overtraining. I think that saying that Sal said where that came from is just because a majority of people don't train enough. A majority of people aren't consistent enough. Majority of people, so it's kind of like that. Consistency is the first battle. It's that motivation. Yeah, it's like talking to the average person, like, oh, I'm not getting progress. I'm working out once a week. That's too much. Because of that, right, right. So it's, you know, who I'm talking to, like the message is gonna be different for whoever this person is, right? So if this person, if you tend to fall in the group of people that never or rarely ever miss a day in the gym and you're very consistent and you love to train, then my conversation is different to you. If you're somebody who's kind of just getting started and you're trying to figure this whole soar overtraining thing out and you're hearing one message from one guy telling you you need to train more and you're hearing mind pumps say, like, be careful you're not overtraining and then you're asking a question like this, well, you may be somebody who's just now getting in the swing of things and maybe you're not sore because you might be following the same. Yeah, it's definitely for somebody who's been doing it for quite a while. Right. Now here's an interesting observation. I've made this argument before a long time ago that it's easier for me to overdo intensity than it is to overdo frequency when it comes to workouts, at least when I would train people. Like I could take a beginner who's deconditioned and I could really fuck them up in one workout to the point where I've overdone it, but I can monitor and adjust intensity to the point where I could probably train them every single day. I'm just gonna do very, very low intensity type movements. So that's another thing to keep in mind. Sometimes overtraining doesn't mean you're working out too much. It may mean you just back off on the intensity a little bit. So you might not even need to have a couple days off. Maybe you just do a week of easy workouts where you're in the gym and just going through the movements and feeling a little bit of the pump and getting a little bit of the stretch and doing the full range of motion type stuff and then see if your performance starts to improve again. Next question is from Fit M28. What's the difference between neat and cardio? Yeah, so the specific differences are neat represents all of the non-cardio, non-workout, non-planned exercise activity that you do throughout the day. So it's just your daily activity that's not a scheduled type of workout. Cardio is scheduled workout. Now, technically, cardio is when you hit a certain heart rate for people too, right? Everyone has a different cardio threshold. Oh yeah, that's when you're getting real technical. Yeah, if you were to be real technical about it. I mean, even when you first get on a treadmill and you just start kind of jogging or moving, even though you're no longer in neat and you're technically doing work, you're not technically doing cardio yet until your heart rate hits a number and that's gonna be different to each person. So that's when you talk about like VO2 max and testing that and finding out, they share with you what your cardio threshold is. Where your optimal zone is. Basically just shifting systems, right? Yep, yep. I mean, Adam made a big deal about this when we kind of first started the show, talking a lot about neat and how it was something that he prescribed. And I thought it was absolutely brilliant and I'll tell you why. I think neat, increasing your neat for the average or for most people is superior to trying to schedule cardio and figure out how much cardio you need. Now, here's why, let's just imagine you do more neat and versus this, you know, more cardio and they equal the same calorie burn, they equal the same, you know, benefits in terms of fat loss and all that stuff. That's fine and dandy, but here's why neat is superior beyond that. Even if they were the same in terms of results, neat is superior because when you monitor and adjust neat, what you're literally doing is you're changing your lifestyle. Cardio being scheduled within your day, taking an hour out to do it is different than me monitoring my day-to-day and saying, I need to move more. That tends to be, I've noticed with clients since really implementing this, it tends to be something that they put in their life. Right, so much easier to manage. Yes. So much easier, not only that, but then you add in which one's more likely to be overused or abused, right? You can't go wrong just moving throughout the day more and being more active is just like walking, but you absolutely can overdo cardio. So there's more risk for you to over prescribe with cardio than there is doing something like neat which is just moving around and like back to what Sal was saying, like to me, when you start teaching and speaking to clients just kind of steps in their movement, it's much easier for them to manage where, you know, and you gotta go do cardio and you know you gotta go sweat on a treadmill for a half hour. You gotta go change your clothes, you gotta schedule a time, get on with cardio. Yeah, and you're thinking about like, do I have it in me to do that right now? But how hard is it for anyone to just be like, hey, you know what, I know you really wanna sit here and watch three more Netflix shows because you've already watched five and you're stuck into the series. You know, is it that much effort for you just to get your fucking ass off the couch and just go for a stroll and walk outside? Like, believe it or not, that's a much easier task. And just being much more productive. Right. Like using that, like, and this is really how I've personally like adopted it is like, there's an extra incentive and motivation to go do projects and do things around the house, get things done, like it improves, you know, the lives around you too. So it's like, the problem I have- It saves lives. It does, man. But think about it, think about like people that really, really get into fitness all of a sudden, right, and they're on this quest of like getting in the ultimate shape and it's so self-centered. And a lot of times it's really hard to pull people in your camp like, hey, yeah, rah, rah, rah, you know, you find people that are like, you know, helping you out. But like, this is one of those things that also brings in the people around, brings in your family, like they see you up actively, see you doing things, you know, you're helping them out because it's advantageous to do that as opposed to just, I'm fucking running on, you know, a hamster wheel to get to where I need to go, meaning me. It's on, you're 100% right, Justin. The people that I work with that I prescribe neat to instead of Cardi, which is now all of them, what they end up telling me, because we end up talking about it, and what they end up saying is, oh, I find myself doing more chores around the house. Why? Because they're sitting there doing nothing or watching TV or on social media. They know that they probably should increase their steps or whatever, and they're like, but it's not scheduled cardio. They just know they need to move more. And they're like, you know what? I'm just gonna go wash the windows or I'm gonna go do the yard work or I'm gonna go clean my room or take the dog out. And they end up, it's an additional incentive to get them to do their normal chores or to do more of them. You actually become more productive. And that's my point. My point is with neat is that when you pay attention to neat and focus on neat, you end up, it's so much easier to incorporate that into your life than scheduled cardio is. Scheduled cardio is an easy thing to cut out. You know what I mean? It's easy for me, if I'm the average person, to say, I'm supposed to do 40 minutes of cardio. I don't wanna do 40 minutes of cardio. So I'm not gonna do it. Versus, oh, I'm supposed to get into the 2,000 steps in today. You know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna go wash the car. Or I'm gonna go for a walk outside or I'm gonna go in the backyard and do some yard work or whatever. It's easier to incorporate into your life. Therefore, it becomes a lifestyle versus a scheduled workout. And as personal trainers, the easier you can make something a lifestyle, the more successful you are as a trainer, the more successful your client is. You really get them to buy in. It's also a better way for you to lean out and guarantee you're gonna hold on to more lean body mass. Yes. So if, and this is how I used to use it with competing is I cracked me up when I would see these competitors that would be doing these hours and hours of cardio. Like you're sending a signal to the body to adapt and get leaner, faster, harder, because you're pushing the body faster and harder. Where if you're just kind of moving around and you're low calorie also, the fact that your body is going to probably metabolize mostly fat and use that as a primary source of energy. But if you are calorie deprived and you're pushing the body really hard constantly, well, and it starts to run out of that source, well, that's where you get into this point where the body starts to adapt and lose muscle mass. So there's less risk of losing lean body mass by using neat versus pushing the cardio. They've done studies on this. Well, they'll compare one cardio session versus two or three cardio sessions, but equal amount of time. So in other words, you know, they'll have a group of people do 60 minutes of cardio once a day versus another group of people who does 20 minutes of cardio three times a day or two 30 minute sessions. So they divide it up. The ones that divide it up burn more body fat, even though it's the same total amount of time. Now, neat is split up and much more than that, typically, if I'm aiming for 15,000 or 12,000 steps in the day, there's probably gonna be blocks where I'm doing a lot of that, but then there's also throughout the day where I'm kind of throwing in and injecting periods of time where I'm actually moving a little bit more. And so you find that you spread it out throughout the whole day. So following along that theory of what those studies seem to suggest or show, if we go along that logic, neat would also, and I think it's probably splitting hairs, to be honest with you, but if you're somebody that is really high performance and you care about every little hair, like I'm saying, neat is gonna be superior. Like a competitor. Like a competitor. This is how I coached every single competitor. You don't even have a mad cardio unless they absolutely have to. The way we use cardio was because you couldn't get your steps in. You couldn't get your knees. So like as I get a competitor closer to stage, it's we're talking about, okay, that when we, here we are and we'll say eight weeks out and we're moving 10,000 steps and then we're seven weeks out, we're moving 12,000 steps and then we're moving 14,000 steps and 60. Then eventually I've got them up to 20,000 to 24,000 steps, which that's a lot. That's a lot for somebody who's just gonna be walking around. So then you may have to use a cardio session to get there. But if you can just be active and do that, I use the weight training and the calorie management as the way for them to lean out and very, very successful holding on to their lean body mass. Now all things being equal, the most important factor here when you're thinking about your workout or cardio, the most important factor is not which cardio machine or which form of cardio is the most effective for burning body fat or which method is the most effective for burning body fat. That's not the most important factor. For most people, the most important factor is which one am I gonna do the most consistently in the longest. And neat is lifestyle. Cardio is structured scheduled workout. So I think that answers itself right there. Next question is from Anthony Lyfts 18. For most of my shifts, I sit down watching cameras. I walk around the building sometimes and my shifts are usually eight hours. Even after taking a pre-workout or drinking coffee, I still feel like I don't have energy. Any tips or ideas? Why feel so tired after work to the point where I'm too tired to go to the gym? So something that I discovered, and I don't wanna say I discovered, but maybe rediscovered or really started to understand when I first developed the trigger session concept for MAPS anabolic, which was, I don't know, six years ago, maybe longer, was that when I'm doing trigger sessions and I'm doing them three times a day, so I do morning, afternoon, evening, there's definitely times where I did not wanna do a seven minute trigger session. I was just tired, lethargic, maybe I'm watching movie, maybe I'm on the couch, but I know it's time to do it. And during this period of time, I'm testing the program out to see how it works, so I'm like, I am not gonna skip a trigger session, I have to do it. So I'd pick my ass up, even if I was, whatever I was doing, tired, whatever, and I do the trigger session. And every single time, after five to seven minute trigger session, I feel like I had a jolt of energy. It was incredible and it worked every single time. And so for this person right here, and you're saying you don't feel any energy, you're lethargic because you're sitting all day. You're sitting down watching cameras all day. One of the best things you could do is do your priming session at work before you go to the gym, which doesn't require a lot of energy. This is why I like doing this, because if I'm going to the gym and I'm tired and I'm thinking about workout, that seems like a nightmare, but if I think, oh, I'm gonna do priming and start to fire some muscles and stretch and just move, movement creates energy. It really, really does. Movement, I mean, it's so momentum-based. I get that way too from sitting, just from doing the podcast and I'll have to get up, do squats or walk around, because then I have a commute too to get home. And so if I don't do all the little movements, push-ups, grab something, do some little bicep curls or swing the May spell around, I definitely feel the difference of that very rapidly. My body just, it starts to kind of shut down. I get tired, I get lethargic. I get home, I'm tired, I don't wanna do anything. And so for me, it's essential that I do little things throughout the day to make sure that I carry that momentum going back home. I would echo the same thing and then I would also potentially address the pre-workout and coffee drinking that if you've been doing that consistently for a long time, you're so used to that, maybe fasting from that for a while, maybe a week or two off of coffee and pre-workout. Keep in mind that's gonna suck. Yeah, right. So that's not gonna make you feel good instantly, right? Obviously that you may have some deal which also should be a flag that it's- But reintroducing it will be fantastic. Right, so and then when you reintroduce the coffee and or pre-workout, it should make, I mean, make you feel amazing. This is, well, I love to use coffee and pre-workout this way. I've never been somebody who I like, I absolutely have to have my coffee. I love my coffee, but I don't have to have it. I can go days without it, no problem. And I was, I'm somebody who doesn't use pre-workout consistently, so when I do, like, and today's an example, like I can, today it's hot in the studio or AC is not working. I feel a little tired and lethargic. I'm about to go train legs. There's probably a good chance that I'm gonna go utilize one of the pre-workouts that we have laying around. And I know that it's gonna fire me up because I don't use- Because you never use it. Right, so I think that could be a possibility, but I definitely agree. When you usually have a job where you're kind of sitting especially to focused in on like cameras, like looking, you know what I'm saying? You're just staring at the same thing. This is why- It's just slow death. So here's what I do, okay? For me, and this is what I've recommended to other people. Now I am not the kind of person that can sit down and pay attention for long periods of time. It drives me fucking crazy. Unless I'm super focused and involved in what I'm doing, which I can also do, that's why meetings for me are so difficult because we have meetings once or twice a week. We'll sit in these meetings and inevitably halfway through the meeting, what do I do? I get up, I stretch, I move, I squat. To get my energy back up, I just can't handle it. So what I recommend to clients who run situations like this is I say, look, every set an alarm on your phone and every 30 minutes do one or two stretches or exercises. That's it. It'll take you a grand total of 60 seconds. Try it out. Every 30 minutes, try it out. So if you're sitting down looking at computer monitors for eight hours, that means that 16 times you're gonna get up and you're gonna do maybe 10 reps of squats or 10 pushups or you're gonna stretch your hamstrings or you're gonna do something else. You're doing the power pose or you're getting full extension because you're so like protracted the whole time. Now think of the benefits. You're definitely gonna have more energy because you got up moved and stretched. You're gonna prevent muscle imbalances. You're gonna feel better. You're gonna burn more calories. But that's probably about anywhere between 16 to 30 minutes of extra exercise activity on top of it. Doesn't sound like much when you say, oh, every 30 minutes I'm gonna do a minute. But eight hours, that's 16 minutes right there that you just did every single day. And when I recommend this to clients and they actually do this, oh, it's incredible. The type of feedback I get is way better focus, more productive at work, because a lot of times people are like, oh, I don't wanna take a break every 30 minutes. I'm not gonna be as productive. Not true. You actually become more productive. And then the pleasant side effects are, oh, I lost a couple pounds of body fat or actually got a little stronger because I've been practicing pushups every 30 minutes, just doing like five or whatever. Now it's like, I gotta do 10 to feel the same type of intensity. Right. We don't talk about it a lot in the show, but we have bands. So I mean, they'll be linked in the show notes. I know what Jackie does, he'll make sure to put a link to the bands. The band setup comes with handles so you can do all kinds of stuff. They come with a little door insert so you can put them into wedging between a door up high, down low, the side. Like so you could literally get yourself a nice little workout, priming session, anything in between. And it doesn't have to be crazy intense. You don't gotta be sweating your balls off in between just like Sal saying, couple minutes every half hour, hour can make a world of a difference. That's what I did to one of my clients. She has a pair of bands and she sits at a desk for long periods of time. And that's what she'll do. She'll either get up and do leg exercises or she'll stay seated, hook the bands around her feet, do some curls or do some shoulder presses just every 30 minutes. You could even have some fun with this. Like if I had a client that did this, I don't know what you're staring at on the screen but I would hope to God it probably gives you something a little bit different to look at. Can I get a drinking game? Yeah, right. So every time like, so maybe he's like, I don't know, maybe he's a mall guy and he's watching like people coming in out of the store. It's like every time 20 people come in or out I'm gonna get up and do 20 squats or something like that where try and have some fun with it since you're having to be stuck at work staring at a screen anyways. Maybe when so many things come across the screen you have this little game that you play where you do some movement. It really is funny because it sounds counter right? At first when you say, oh, if you're sitting in your conserving energy you should have more at the end of it. But that's not true at all. When your body's getting adapted to that. Yeah, you are. That's why you feel lethargic and tired. I mean, I couldn't imagine sitting down for eight hours. I bet you could out stare at a screen better than anybody. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? I bet you could stare at a screen. That's what your body's adapted to. Yeah, exactly. So I'd say get up and move every 30 minutes and definitely before when your shift is over or when it's about to be over and you're about to go to the gym I would do an eight to 10 minute priming session which is ideal or a trigger session. And then watch how you feel. You'll start to notice that you feel like you're more motivated and have a little bit more energy to go to the gym. And these trigger sessions and movements do stimulate a little bit of dopamine which dopamine is what gets us to do shit. So give it a shot, see what happens. Check this out. If you go to mindpumpfree.com you can download up to like 12 free guides. We got free guides on there available for everybody mindpumpfree.com. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes Maps Anabolic, Maps Performance and Maps Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com. If you enjoy this show please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time this is Mind Pump.