 That's that here's an old here's an old time joke for you. That's what dick vital said when he was accused of copyright infringement parody, baby There's like maybe two people get would get that job. Yeah, what happened to him? Anyways, he'd still I don't know What happened to dick vital? He was huge when I was in college That's that he's 77 years old and Still live and still with us Dickie V No, I don't think that should be surprising. I think people on average live. All right, so we're true. Yes, PN. Oh He's tough cool. I guess he's just not doing as many he wrote a kid's book called dickie V's ABCs and one two threes. I Guess he's just not doing as much color commentary, which is why I don't see him He has a book called turning primarily paired with play-by-play announcers Mike Patrick in any CC games and Dan Shulman for Saturday primetime He appears as an in-studio analyst with Reese Davis. I just don't watch enough college basketball. That's why I don't know Yep He wrote a book in 88 called vital His book yeah, no that was one just for him. I guess the kids book was 2010. That's the last thing he's done Last book he's done last book right right. He's probably done lots of other lots of other stuff You can breakfast stick by town driven to the corner store. Yeah, it's all sorts of breakfast What do you call it? What do you call a corner store? It's all Lake City you call it a well depends like it hasn't Like if we have these places called Maverick it used to be circle K and they bought them all out Okay, I remember circle K's and they and so if you say where you going I just run over the Maverick like that Over yeah, it's mostly names like Kim's going to Sprouts or I need to run the Harman's or Safeway or you know Whatever we used to call them convenience stores when I was growing up But then when I got to San Francisco they became a corner store seemed to be the more common Usage yeah, I don't feel like we've said that much lately, but I could be wrong. I don't know what the kids call them Kids called places were old people shop because I get everything on Amazon 7-Eleven's where we used to call it the Seb when I was in high school You called it the Sev go to the Sev everybody called it that I hated it But everyone did it so I think I probably joined in they call them bodegas in New York sometimes. Oh, yeah Occasionally they'll call them Mercados out here, but Mercados growing up. They were all liquor stores It didn't matter. It was just a liquor store because of invariably 99% of them had some sort of liquor. Yeah 7-Eleven's us were a place to play ice climbers a place to get a slurpee and a place to get a Charleston shoe That was pretty much my whole my whole rotation there. All right Well, now it is a place to do a daily tech news show excellent. Let's do this here. We go Who's responsible for this if you went to daily tech news show comm slash support and gave a nickel a day Then it must be you Thank you This is the Daily Tech News for Wednesday June 22nd 2016. I'm Tom married joining me today Scott Johnson How are you Scott Johnson? I'm fantastic Tom Meredith Tuesday. I mean Scott Johnson and Tom Meredith together at last We are very excited about deep fried Macaroni and cheese coming to Burger King. Oh, but we will try to set aside That expect you're not as excited. Are you I want to be I really do want to be but I feel like I feel like this is the thing I would have been super jazzed about in my teens and now it just sounds like a stomach ache waiting for me Yeah, probably you're probably right about that. No We're seriously going to talk about a proposal in Europe's parliament to grant robots electronic personhood Not a joke now neither was the deep fried macaroni and cheese actually But yeah, that's gonna be our main story first though C-span isn't allowed to turn its cameras on during a US House of Representatives sit in so it's Re-broadcasting feeds from Periscope and Facebook live instead here are the rest of the top stories Amazon announced a new Kindle starting at $80 or 60 pounds UK If you agree to receive ads on the device if you want one without the promotions as they call it It's a hundred bucks the new entry level Kindle adds Bluetooth audio support the ability to email your notes and highlights to yourself Doubles your storage to four gigabytes and has a easy to hold rounded design You can pre-order it in black or white today for shipping in the next few weeks They also added a white version of the paper white for 120 bucks or 110 pounds. Do you? This is like a return to the white design. They haven't had this I don't think I can't think of another Kindle since the one that had the crazy keyboard on it where that wasn't just a Straight-up black device. I'm excited about the white. I I'm glad you're excited. I haven't used a Kindle since the first one I'm not even joking like I think I have it sitting up there on we've talked about this You've been able to pretty comfortably jump to using tablets and phones to pick up your book wherever you're at You like to syncing all that stuff's great You still use Kindle as a service but not necessarily the devices my life was utterly changed by The most recent paper white before this one That's the one I got I guess a year ago, and I love that thing So I don't know what it is. I think maybe I think I just appreciate e-ink in a way that I didn't think I would And I kind of put that off for a long time and I can read longer than I could when I was reading on tablets So I'm all about I'm all about these Kindles doing well I hope they keep iterating and making them nicer and cheaper and all that and you are not the only one I feel like the outsider here because it seems like everybody's really excited that Amazon added this this new Kindle And it's not even that big of a deal like you said It's like oh, there's now a white and a black one and it's got four gigabytes of storage And the Bluetooth audio is the biggest Significant advance if you are someone who relies on it to read the text You know the text to speech functionality for whatever reason that's that's a big deal now You can use your your wireless Bluetooth headphones with that or a speaker or something like that But I mean I I guess they sell a lot of these things So there's a lot of people out there which means a new version would make those people excited it strikes me as iteration means progress and it means they're committed to the format so when you see even small incremental changes even ones I'm not planning on buying it says to me that there's something healthy happening And I think that's good for for the e-reading public in general drop box speaking of iteration drop box Who's always iterating? Business users can now use the iOS mobile app to scan documents and upload them directly to drop box It's got optical character recognition will make the Documents searchable within the app so you'll be able to search in the text that you scan a big plus button allows the creation of word PowerPoint or Excel documents most common formats obviously you can now look up Look at previous versions of the documents for easier reversion so you can kind of jump back and forth Drop box drop box not saying when this is going to come to Android. However, but iOS ready to roll Let's go. I use drop box a lot on iOS mostly just for I need to quickly send out a link to a file I created for somebody who didn't get the email or or whatever. I'm thinking I might use this This feature this is something I could I could I could actually mess with and get some you know Get some actual value out of yeah, you do need a business account That that's going to be the downer for a lot of people that otherwise might be excited about this But I have a business account for a Daily Tech news show So I I am excited about this and and now I understand how it feels when someone's not as excited about your new e-book Because I'm sure not that many people are excited about this But I do use cam scanner an iOS app to do a lot of document scanning I'm putting them into drugs and it allows you to upload to drop box So I guess I guess it's nice That I'll be able to do this directly in drop box And I probably will although cam scanner can allow me to do Google Drive in box and and so maybe I shouldn't maybe I should Continue to use the third-party device that gives me more options rather than drop box built-in version I don't know how often I would use my phone to create a word document But it does show that Microsoft is definitely saying yeah, we if you don't want to use one drive That's fine. We're still gonna support all kinds of things and they've been integrating more and more with drop box As time goes on so that the previous versions thing is the best thing because it used to be you'd have to Revert then you look at it like up. Nope. That's not far enough. Revert again. Ah, that was too far You know, let's go forward this allows you to just preview and find exactly the document version that you're looking for and you can Revert I've been a genius scan user for a long time, and I don't think I've ever used it for OCR I don't even know if it does it but it has you know built-in touch ID and some other nice security features So yeah, whether this replaces my workflow when I'm trying to scan in things and create PDFs I don't know but the more the merrier I say and the more drop box gives me options the happier I'll be as a user as a business as well Tesla announced an offer to buy solar city. That's the company that goes around and installs solar panels on houses If it doesn't strike you as unusual that Tesla would offer to buy a solar city That's because you forgot Elon Musk founded both of them He's the CEO of Tesla and the chairman of solar city Tesla would buy solar city for between 2.59 billion and 2.78 billion depending on on how the agreement works out Musk has recused himself from Considerations on this as has another member of both boards So that only the people who don't have a stake in the other will be making the decision Solar city stock has been declining as its debts increase It got a little boost from this but then it kind of fell back down somewhat to earth in a statement Tesla pitched itself as becoming the world's only vertically integrated energy company And it's worth noting that Musk owns 22% of solar city and 21% of Tesla So him recusing from this takes takes a big chunk of the shareholder vote away and leaves it in the hands of others I wonder how many people are surprised to hear that Elon Musk only owns 22% of one company He found it and 21% of what he didn't want to associate some with it must seem those must sound funny to Still the biggest shareholder in both majority owner of either 22% of multi-billion dollar companies is a very nice percentage But anyway, I actually kind of agree. This is seems like a good marriage I mean, they're they're building batteries at that plant in Nevada We talked about a little bit this morning on TMS and those are being you know It would make sense to to utilize all of those technologies and your production line and everything else to sort of feed companies that feel like they're in a similar business, which is Non-traditional energy solutions. So I don't think it's a problem. And if he's recusing himself all the better That means, you know less weird entanglements and strange, you know sure conflicts. So it's got horrible idea The only reason I'm just I'm just gonna take this side of the argument The only reason for this to happen is to save Musk's money Solar city stock has been declining because of huge debt Tesla is actually not doing so great on debt. The last thing it needs is to take on more debt So really it's a way for Musk to elegantly bail out solar city without losing a bunch of money personally The Bloomberg article I read today says it sounds like the shareholders of both Tesla and solar city are not terribly excited about this And that would make sense for the Tesla side because Tesla stopped dropped on this news The only reason solar city got a bump was because people thought well crap Now he's gonna buy this stock for more than it's worth right now I might as well jump in and get it at the discount. Yeah, I agree You're right and you've been you often are right about these sorts of things But silver lining here at least they're kind of markets that aren't exactly opposed to each other It's not like you're asking SpaceX and a food company to join forces. You know what I mean Yeah, I know I get what you're saying that the solar panels on the superchargers and stuff like that But I'm just trying to point out that this isn't entirely like a merger that would happen without Elon Musk involved Exactly in a photo of Mark Zuckerberg celebrating Instagram's 500 Millionth user think of that for a second 500 million people using Instagram. That's that's huge Laptop can be seen in the background with something like tape covering the mic and camera Security company semantic warned users not to keep computers with webcams in their bedrooms on and or to keep them in their bedrooms at all And quote not to do anything in front of one that they wouldn't want the world to see Unquote except DTNs, which were obviously broadcasting right now via camera Well, we want the world to see it so that makes the fix of course But I've got a question for you and I don't know if we have the answer either individually or collectively here, but If my camera is plugged in but we're not talking and it's showing, you know little indicator light is off There's no services connected connected to it for VoIPer, you know video or anything How isn't there's has to be a way to tell if your camera is broadcasting something like everyone talks about it in a conspiratorial way, but can't you tell we can figure out if it's doing it or not We can see what signals are going in come Here's the thing a friend of mine mocked me because I had a post-it note over my camera one time Yeah, and he's like come on man People are not interested in getting to your camera and I said sure you're probably right Most of us don't have to worry about this, but I am also afraid that I will accidentally have that thing on when I shouldn't Here's a way to make sure that neither of those things happen And and yeah Sometimes it is seen as as a mark of of ultra paranoia to put put the thing over the camera But in cases like I don't know you're the CEO of Facebook taking your laptop into a secure area That has prototype code and whiteboards and stuff you want to make sure that you don't Accidentally have that camera on as well. So there's there's that side of it is like hey I'm preventing myself from doing something done Yeah, the other side of it too is you you may you may See hacks out there That can turn on the camera quickly grab a photo and turn itself off In such a fast manner that you'd never even see the light turn on There's other more sophisticated hacks that can can maybe capture things without that light going on and letting you know It's there so it's all about how much paranoia you have I will I will tell you you had me at the point in the conversation where we're talking about Mark Zuckerberg and his tape and You saying it is often thought of as the mark of paranoia and that's kind of where my brain said yep We're that's his new nickname mark of paranoia Zuckerberg. You know what it served him well So don't mock him for it. Don't mark him for it either. I Wonder more about the microphone because putting tape over a microphone Maybe muffles it a little It's not much of an impedance like you put a post-it note over a camera You will see only yellow or whatever color the post-it note is yeah You put tape over a microphone. You can still hear things right and worse You and I are really screwed because we've got big old amplified mics sticking out of our stuff So we're saying stuff again now on purpose right because we want the world to hear us But yeah, what if we leave these things on but but just no just Mike on a laptop You're not really reducing the amount of audio that it can capture that look at it one other way And that is if Mark Zuckerberg is doing it and I and I actually believe in my heart of hearts That what you said about him being around sensitive stuff code on white boards in rooms where it matters What's being said or shown and not wanting to have any reason why anything leaks that makes all the sense in the world To me and doesn't speak of paranoia as much as it does about security and him wanting to keep what's theirs There's I get that but the idea that mark Zuckerberg one of the leading CEOs of companies anywhere in the world dealing with technology Thinks it's important to do that to his maybe there's a message in that. Yeah, the message is yeah Sure, you can use da-da-da as your password, but you better cover that camera I'm just saying he is like if if he know he may know things is all I'm saying like you can connect some other Conspiracies theories to this one and all suddenly I'll make a bunch of sense and Tom Hanks is gonna come to your museum and find out Why you died with a cross on your benefit now? Security flaw that is more likely to be of concern to you or if you're watching this show more likely to be a concern of your friends and Relatives BBC reporting on a new scam that's similar to the one that would cold-call people and say hey We've detected a virus on your windows machine and people like I use a Mac and then they'd hang up The BBC reports on a new scam involving malware that launches pop-ups. So you're just browsing around Maybe you hit a weird website. Maybe they load a page in the background through an ad Some hair somehow, but whatever happens a pop-up comes up that Appears to be from your ISP and they can tell by your IP address which ISP you have so it's gonna be the right name the right logo It's gonna look super official and the pop-up claims that malware has been detected and puts a phone number up for you to call for Immediate assistance callers then connect with people who sound like they operate a call center, you know Thank you for calling Comcast. Thank you for calling Time Warner. This is our rescue team We'll connect you with a technician. They are then maneuvered into downloading Trojans or giving out credit card information just like the cold call Things that we're more familiar with malware bites has found scams impersonating Verizon AT&T Time Warner BT plus net sky and talk talk dang Keep that over there Britain. I don't want any of that. That sounds awful. It sounds like Or what I'm Warner, well, I have I mean, I guess I have a I have I have Comcast here Which I don't see on this list, which doesn't mean I yeah, but yeah yet is the is the operative term but Yeah, that's this kind of stuff really freaks me out because it's one thing to accidentally click on a link or even purposely click on Something you think is legit in an email and then getting infected and going oh shoot I should have known and kind of dealing with that but when there are flesh-and-blood people on a phone Talking to you in completely deceptive ways for some reason the deception for me goes way darker Yeah, like that at all that's creepy and weird and I don't want anything to do with it So don't if you get it that way don't click it people Learn from the years of other people. Don't call it, right? I mean you did the the the real thing about this is Anybody can buy an ad right you just go into an online marketplace you buy an ad you can do it through Google Google has safety precautions in place and they're pretty good about kicking out malware ads But it's not hard to get a one-by-one pixel and one of those ads that can report back Your ISP and then allow you to figure out how to deliver a pop-up to that person It's not it's not difficult so anybody could get this right If you're not running no script or privacy badger or something like that In other words if you're if you're playing by the rules of big publishing You're more likely to get this pop-up because you're not blocking ads now once you get it Here's the thing and here's the key message to tell people never Call a number that shows up in a pop-up or in an email always contact your bank your ISP Anybody who wants personal information from you from a reliable number that you already have and For sure bill that you get or going to their website making sure it's their website Whatever it is, but if a pop-up says call a number don't call that number call the real number if you're really convinced It's for real, but don't call that number don't click on a link in an email Don't call a number from an email make sure that you're contacting the actual place because these people are going to be Impossible to tell once you've called the number they're going to pretend like they're your Comcast agent And the other tip off is if they start to ask you for things like your account number You know and your credit card number once they start asking for that If that's not something your ISP might not ask you they might ask you to verify your account number Sometimes but as soon as they're asking for personal information you want to be extra sure you're talking to the right people Yeah, your alarm should go off and I'm just thinking about my mom this entire time She's gonna fall for this one if it happens to her and I'm really hoping yeah Well my my father-in-law got the cold call. He told me about it. He didn't he almost fell for it He went to the computer and was navigating doing what they said and then he got suspicious at one point when they asked for his credit Card member he's like I know I'm gonna do that So hopefully your mom's internal suspicion would would pop up when they started to ask for the stuff that they need But yeah, it's tough My mom Sorry mom if you're listening just give me a call. Let me know and I'll say by the way Big Jim is in the in the chat room here campaigning. He's like let's waste their time If anybody sees this pop-up like call them and keep them on the line for a long time I don't know if that would really do anything. Yeah, maybe You organize your own private thing let us know how it goes Reuters reports data from the International Federation of Robots a robotics Rather that is such a cool sounding thing Shows global industrial robot sales slowed to 12% in 2015 That is a drop from 20% in 2014. It's a little higher a year before China's growth slowed dragging down the global number as China accounts for more than 25% a full fourth of of all of it Of the 248,000 industrial robots that are sold Sony or excuse me, South Korea was the second biggest robot maker Sony's that you have Japanese companies You know Sony South Korea get mixed up all the time They are the second biggest robot market followed in order by Japan the US and Germany Robot sales double to Mexico though and this is due to its expanding automotive production Which makes sense down there. There's a lot going on down there with automotive stuff So it's interesting. Do you think the slowdown means anything other than hate shifts in the market? No, probably not You know, I don't think it says too much about robotics and the technology of robotics It probably says more about China's economics situation and the fact that you know, they were expected to slow down They couldn't keep double-digit economic growth forever And so that slowdown is gonna hit factories and factory building and construction Where robotic construction is booming is places like Mexico and India Where factories are being built and and the jobs are starting to move So just like jobs move to China when labor there was super cheap as the labor gets more expensive there It moves elsewhere and the robots follow the robots work for cheap, too. Yeah, also Makes the robots I assumes much of them are being made in the countries that use them the most and or if not they're being imported from Ones that do like China's probably manufacturing a lot of This stuff China's trying to bring more robotic manufacturing domestically, but they're actually made a lot of times in Europe There's a a German company called Kuka. That is the target of a hostile of a takeover bid by China's Medea And and there are several other robotics companies in Europe And and also here in the United States that make these the car industry really dominates these kinds of robots Oh, sure. Yeah, those big. Yeah big soldering arms and all that But I just I start my head starts going chicken and egg big time when I start thinking about all right Well, they're making automated robots for this industry Who's making those robots are they being built by other robots and are those industrial robots built by other? Industrial like like at what point is just a dude make turtles all the way down Scott Weirds me out for some reason. Yeah at some point humans have to make something and that still happens Finally an amendment to the US criminal justice appropriations bill to allow the FBI to access a person's internet browsing history email account data and other Electronic communications without a court order in terrorism and spy cases did not Get the 60 votes needed in the United States Senate to pass it ended with a 58 to 38 votes So it got majority approval, but not enough to pass and therefore it will not be amended Although there are other efforts to get that kind of national security level National security letter level appropriateness for these kinds of bills also the lone wolf Provision here that would allow you to go after somebody even if they aren't associated with the terrorist group Did not pass although that is part and parcel to other bills that already exists Thanks to all those who participate in our subreddit submit stories and vote on them at daily tech news show dot reddit Dot com it absolutely helps us make a better show every day tg stellar Sewell to omer Tron flow Bama's this the suck except spelled T. E. H. S. U. K. C. K. Are all in They're doing their best to help make a better show you can do daily tech news show dot reddit dot com And that's a look at the top stories All right, let's get to this proposal non binding draft resolution keep that in mind any resolution the European Parliament passes Non-binding because they cannot create legislation yet in the European Union, but a resolution dated May 31st is Very long but somewhere in there it says that quote at least the most sophisticated Autonomous robots could be established as having the status of the electronic persons with specific rights and obligations including that of making good any damage that they may cause and Applying electronic personality to cases where robots make smart autonomous decisions or otherwise interact with third parties independently Wow So if I'm reading this right Scott this says They would be granted electronic personhood with the rights and obligations and they would have to pay for any damages they cause and They would have to testify what like what does apply electronic personality to cases mean? I don't know But we talked about this a bit this morning and I've it's been eating at me all day because I'm trying to get my head around how you would start to apply What is what is basically some basic human rights or human expectations onto machines? Obviously, they're much more Specific and narrow. They're not saying that they have you know It's not the same as human rights necessarily They're not going to demand eight-hour days and vacation time and everything else like But all those questions keep coming up and I start thinking about all the Specifics and one of them is seems really plain and obvious. That's hard to answer Which is how does it account for paying for any damage? It does does it mean monetarily? Does it mean emotionally like if the damages I knocked a dude's head off while I was running past and that wasn't supposed to happen Well, who's paying for those medical? I was not programmed to regret Exactly so it is an odd I won't say precedent, but it's an odd thing, but it also in a weird way feels important to me. It feels like we're Making a step that maybe won't matter in 50 or 60 years or won't matter until 50 or 60 years come to pass But yeah, somehow we're gonna get to the point where we have to start thinking about What rights do they have and I'm not really talking about this simplified kind of Star Trek way about what if they had feelings? I just mean in general they're these creatures really that that we've created that do things in a way that that You could argue. Yeah, they need to have some quote-unquote rights and some Responsibilities even if those drastically different from that of human beings and it's all really fascinating to me Yeah, as far as the liability goes. There's a lot of provisions here about insurance There would be a requirement for robot owners to buy insurance to contribute to a group fund To pay out limited liability There'd be robot registrations The creation of a European robotics agency for technical ethical and regulatory expertise and all robots would have to be registered They're already going X-men on us. Oh man, or or civil war depending on how you want to look at it well, and if you're Elon Musk or somebody who worries about the future of AI and Depending on how far you take that worry What we could be doing now is laying the groundwork for what happens in the future And if what truly happens in the future is Autonomous robots do become thinking perhaps even feeling machines Which is really not all that different than what we are and we figure out a way to cross that divide We need to be careful like we can't There's gonna that's gonna be a real controversial moment. I know this Settle down Scott settle down movies. It's too many movies. What's the thing? You're you're falling on the matey delvo side of this issue matey delvo is the MP from Luxembourg Who is the rapporteur for this resolution? She says if we do not create the legal framework for the development of robotics our market will be invaded by robots from outside That's what she wrote in fact in fact, let me read you this the motion actually starts Whereas from Mary Shelley's Frankenstein's monster by the way I like give her points for getting that right to the classical myth of Pygmalion through the story of Prague's Golem to the robot of Carol Kepec who coined the word people have fantasized about the possibility of building intelligent machines more often than not androids with human features Yeah, also quotes as a mob laws as a mobs three laws Which she says in a weird way are flawed and therefore we have to investigate ethics I think she's overreacting Germany's Patrick Schwartzkopf of the German VDMA Group they represent a lot of these large robot manufacturers says look this isn't a bad idea He's like Scott. You're right. We need to be thinking about this, but Schwartzkopf says in 50 years not in 10 years. Hmm So in her case She's doing like me. Well, by the way all the references she pointed to are all fixed fiction Which I think says a lot about where some of our heads are right on this I just feel like we are a race of human beings with a long history Poor decisions when it comes to you look different than me you act different than me Therefore, I'm in the majority and you should be subjugated or whatever and again I don't want to take it too far But it does seem like an opportunity for humanity to change that cycle a tiny bit and get ahead of the game and Make good decisions now that are also good later There aren't too crazy and drastic and acting like our toasters are gonna rise up and kill us or something dumb like that Well, and maybe that's why this is good as overwritten as it is It is beginning the conversation. It's not even beginning the conversation has been going on But it's it's bringing that conversation to a new level a new level of awareness The one thing that I liked in here is a beginning definition for smart autonomous robots Tell me what you think of this all right acquires autonomy through sensors and or by exchanging data with its environment and trades and analyzes data is Self-learning Which is noted as an optional criterion, but I think that's a good one and has a physical support So in other words, it's a robot. It's not just an AI So this is differentiating this from just an AI sitting in a server somewhere Sure, they're not obviously they're not saying well only the ones that talk or only the ones that Weren't programmed to love or whatever millions of variations. You could say I just think it's a I don't know. It just seems like this is I'm not saying this is a turning point in history Right, but part of me wants to say that part of me wants to say. Oh my gosh This is humanity seeing the writing on the wall and knowing that we're just gonna get better in this and one day It's Alexa and the next day. It's a it's a dog that brings me food or whatever Let's think about it ahead of time Yeah, let's be like a head of this thing and I don't I You know, I don't want to be paranoid and I'm not about this sort of thing I'm actually really excited about a future that includes this sort of thing But but it could become a thing, you know There are people are already mad that they're taking their jobs in the first place But there's there's argument about whether they are or not And I'm not gonna we don't need to get into that argument right now necessarily a lot of people saying well No, what happens is a robot takes a job and that opens up better jobs for people to go get yeah It's the Lotus one two three rule It's everyone all the accountants thought that they were gonna have their jobs stripped away and instead it created a whole new industry So I totally agree with that But you could see how some may be concerned about it and isn't part of this proposition or part of this resolution as Non-binding as it may be part of it is they want funds to go To the social good in that those who used to occupy jobs like this and are now older and don't have skills in other Areas that maybe this yeah, yeah, there's a So many provisions this thing is so long if you go we'll have a link in the show. Let's go read it They do consider a lot of those elements of things Don't forget also 2012 South Korea issued its own robot ethics Charter and coincidentally today Google's Chris Ola at Google Research posted a five long-term research questions for AI Essentially five rules that we need to think about for AI. So They are one avoiding negative side effects AI shouldn't disturb its environment while completing a set of tasks to avoiding reward hacking Avoiding rewarding hacking so AI should complete tasks properly rather than using workarounds AI aren't allowed to hack even for good Cleaning robot that covers dirt with material. It doesn't recognize as dirt is not doing the job is the example Scalable oversight AI shouldn't need constant feedback or input safe exploration It shouldn't damage itself for the environment while learning and robustness to distributional shift Which essentially means it should be able to recognize a new environment and still perform effectively I just think if you could go back 15 years and talk to the Tom Merritt or the Scott Johnson of that era of 2001 and say guess what? countries and European unions and organizations like Google are going to have charters and recommendations and proposals to To target suggest how we need to be treaty treating our robots I think that would sound cray-cray Freakin science fiction weirdo to us in 2001 so either way I'm bullish on it I'm excited about it I just love the idea that we can actually start thinking about this because stuff's getting to a point where we kind of start needing We have to start I think I think maybe is a little early on the robot thing, but the AI part of it I think is spot-on And I know a lot of you out there like as a mobs laws if you haven't heard as a mobs loves or fiction They're bunk for real ai's and robots Roger Clark said it is not possible to reliably constrain the behavior of robots by devising and applying a set of rules like that And in fact he points out that in as a mobs later novels the robots inflicted their worst long-term harm by obeying the three laws So the three laws there they were a great thought experiment. That's not what's happening here. These are real considerations They're not laws. They're saying these are the things we need to pay attention Yeah, if we only needed three laws humans would already have just three so No, it's totally it right there all right Let's get to our pick of the day Dean from rainy Perth Australia wants to recommend the purism computer line of products Which promise to have no tracking and respect your privacy It's Libram line of products are supposedly endorsed by the free software foundation I say supposedly because they say it but I didn't go check it and Richard Stallman all Devices support core boot and the operating system based on devian is available as a standalone free download in case you want to try it out on Either bare metal or on a hypervisor host you can go to Puri dot sm if you want to learn more they've got some crowdfunding efforts to make even more devices So thank you Dean for the pic No, very free dot sm send your pics to us folks feedback at daily tech news show calm We want to hear what you think is interesting It's how we share it with other people the reason we do the pics is we don't take ads So some people are like yeah, but that's sometimes how I find out about the coolest stuff So we give you the chance to tell each other about coolest of them. Sometimes we pick some stuff, too All right couple messages Doug in Atlanta Said I just had a chance to finish listening to episode 29 27 91 About the DMCA there's much that it is disturbing to me about content ID But one of the scariest to me is a potential consequence of a situation Patrick mentioned if I use a piece of material for commentary or review Purposes and it gets flagged not only can the special privilege few in the system monetize my work instead of me They could choose to leave it up or take it down in other words. They can control what is being said about their work I'm not sure if this has happened. Yes, it happened to me Doug But I could easily see a case where a company chose to monetize for themselves content that is favorable and forced to take down of critical commentary Yeah, when I was working at twit at Tech news today. We did a story on mega upload Which was this you know a questionable product? I suppose But we were commenting on the mega upload video and our video version of that on YouTube got taken down By Universal music even though we were a news program And it took a day or more to get it up and when you're a daily news program that that pretty much killed that video Yeah, this this is I hadn't really thought about this. This is a real double-edged sword here and the idea that Content ID can both serve or be a problem for different companies is kind of Kind of weird in that they are the ones that get to choose and I know it's impossible that when you're uploading Millions of videos a day or whatever YouTube's getting now for somebody to sort of be the arbiter of that like that's the big problem There's just no way to sort of manage that traffic. It's like a running faucet and trying to keep track of every water molecule That comes through there And because of that, you know, we have what we have but I hadn't really thought about it that way and I you know There's these cases where I've put up a stink and they've backed off about They said that I was doing wrong and there's been other cases where they just flat-out said sorry I can't show this video anywhere and I have full rights, but YouTube doesn't have a way of knowing So it's just a mess everybody can agree, but I haven't thought about the idea that they could I don't know sort of Mess around with what gets said about them and what gets not said about them in a way That's a pretty nefarious way to do it. This is an interesting email and it made me think now Sarah in sunny Seattle pointed out That if YouTube were to lose its safe harbor, they would then be on the hook for policing everything They would have to police child safety Terrorism political correctness everything an individual uploads becomes suspect by default YouTube becomes incentivized to squash content under a better safe than sorry attitude and The freedom of speech not first amendment free speech. That's a different thing But your freedom to speak on YouTube would become a battle with a large and powerful corporation Of course, this all assumes that the company can even afford to bear such a resource intensive responsibility But that's a great point too sir an incredibly good point and it's just such a I mean It really is like when the when the ants realize how they're way more of them than the grasshoppers I always look to a bug's life to help me with my world's problems You realize that when you're talking about this kind of numbers We may have that I mean I don't want to freak anybody out We may actually at the moment have the best way to handle this that there is like content ID as much as we all complain Might know and do tell me a better way Do you have a better way the DMCA and no content ID? The only reason we have content ID is YouTube is trying to pacify its partners in big content So that they will strike better deals with them. This is what I was talking about yesterday It's billionaires fighting with billionaires. They don't care about you The best system would be a system that says hey, you're not guilty until proven innocent They have to show that it's not fair use before they can get it taken down That's not even the way the DMCA works But the DMCA is better than content ID and we need reform to the DMCA and we need reform to the copyright act That says these are the rules that will actually encourage people to produce things not discourage them to produce things because they threaten The bottom line of billion-dollar corporations right and content ID is a self-imposed thing by Google This isn't like something that was forced upon them. Anyway, this is them interpreting norms and saying alright Well, here's our solution. I'm just saying this maybe the best we get out of Google right now Yeah, you may be right about that Pat in regular atmospheric conditions with Carolina. I love that Says you mentioned Motorola doing away with the headphone jack and Apple might be following suit You guys keep talking about wireless headphone issues But in the use from my jack for the audio port in my truck is to listen to podcast and music on my truck speakers rather than Unsafe headphones if all devices go this route How do we continue without either having to unplug the charger or use earbuds? Nobody ever thinks about the poor truck drivers just trying to stay awake during long daily drives And don't even get me started on that asinine self-driving truck crap Okay, first of all, I think the self-driving truck might turn out to be a benefit for you Pat But leaving that aside for the second you will they will probably sell adapters That allow you to use the charging port and the headphone port at the same time and you'll be fine There's the annoyance is that you're gonna have to pay 20 bucks probably for some stupid adapter to do this It is a virtual guarantee that there will be adapters Part of this move may be a thinner phone It may be a million reasons why these guys want to do it more battery space more space for the actual kit of the phone But the bottom line is one added benefit to this is they're going to sell a crap ton of accessories And they know that and I I don't even mean that in another conspiracy here They really know there's money in that stuff I will buy one because I'm gonna need one if that's what happens. Yeah, same here I have an aux cable in my 2003 car and I will buy an adapter if that's the way it goes if I had to yeah, I would as well So don't worry that stuff will be there the worry part is the yeah You'll probably have to spend another 15 to 29 dollars for another adapter Yeah, boo boo is right But the thing is to do we forever until the end of time want to just keep using 3.5 million? Yes analog Do we don't probably no, maybe not not forever is all I'm saying I don't like the lightning port being the deal if it was usb-c And that was just a new standard that we had to go through a little pain and agony to get to and eventually all headphones Have usb-c in a way to charge at the same time then maybe maybe that's there if you believe some rumors that even Apple is considering Usb-c and over lightning I know those are weak at best and we don't really have any confirmation of that But if that's that ends up bearing out maybe and we've got a new standard that would you know Essentially give us the same benefits of lightning but having all the other universal uses for it So yes, Tom is right and that will be a much quicker transition Than four or five competing standards that eventually have to just give in and choose one like 3.5 millimeter connectors Hey, I remember when we went from quarter-inch to three and a half millimeter. Wow Those are the days I'm actually still doing that right now with a adapter right in front of me. That is it Scott Johnson, what do you got to tell people about wait? What are you getting your adapter out an adapter right here? Fourth quarter inch and you can go put a recorder or whatever it is and you put the 3.5 millimeter right in there Yeah, I've got a lot of things going on But I will just tell people about one easy one which is all the stuff I'm doing and will be doing can be found at frogpants.com all the shows I produce if you like daily shows like this one You might like the morning stream I do Monday through Thursday with my co-host Brian Ibbitt Tom marriage shows up on Wednesdays We have a little segment with him and a bunch of other contributors So that's a lot of fun if you're into daily podcasts and a million other things going on So check it out frogpants.com or follow me on Twitter at Scott Johnson You my friends could be a co-executive producer of this show and have the right to show a business card that says it All you have to do is support the show for ten dollars a month at patreon.com slash DTNS huge Thanks to every single person who supports the show in any way find out all the ways to support the show at DailyTechnewshow.com slash support our email address is feedback at DailyTechnewshow.com give us a call 51259 daily catch the show live Monday through Friday 4 30 p.m. Eastern and alphacicradio.com and a diamond club TV and visit our website DailyTechnewshow.com back tomorrow with Justin Robert Young talk to you there The show is part of the frog pants network get more at frogpants.com Diamond club hopes you have enjoyed this bro Boom boom boom boom that felt like a show to me That was very show like now thought it was a good show You know how fast time goes. I'll tell you how fast I feel like you were just here and that was two weeks ago. I know that was two weeks ago I feel like I was just there That's really weird you were just there Two weeks ago two weeks ago we can hear ourselves back Roger if there's any way to put the We got any showbot headlines that we like Mark of paranoia Zuckerberg perhaps We the e-people I wish Mark's name mark mark's name was mark with a seat that would make it more of a fun pun Mark of paranoia What about if it's a iRobot you human V screwed What's the V though I Think it's supposed to be like we V all screwed because it's a Austrian manufacturer a robot sir focuses German Hashtag Robo rights We need some votes we need some votes show about if you're watching live show about TV Because there's too many good ones in here It's a bot make bot world. That's that's your turtles all the way down thing to those five laws of robotics Declaration of AI dependence I Take me to the Tesla city where the batteries are pretty I want to hear someone record that yeah do it like Robot text and no phobia. It's a hard one to read. I Think we the e-people is winning it seems to be seven up there. I kind of like that Hit straight on into the middle Well done Ken from Chicago getting all the votes well done like a overcooked steak Actually, he's got two in the top ten three in the top ten. It's we're gonna casey-case in him I'm Casey case Seaspin musk and musk Robot America civil no We're going with the e-people We the e-people Should be we the e-people in order to form a more perfect Voltron thing Because the robots I was going for a European Union thing. Oh Because it because then that fits the rhyme scheme. That's a good point man. I love those old cartoons What will try have you watched the Netflix one yet? Yes, it's so good You like it board by the first one. I love it. I thought it's really just it's not very interesting at all I found myself maybe maybe we can all my nostalgia bones or something but definitely tweaks my nostalgia boats I knew who hunk was as soon as he came on screen. I'm like, oh, yeah, this is exactly the same But like the stories are pretty dull. Oh, yeah, it's pretty standard I mean there's nothing crazy happening story-wise, but but I would say like in terms of cartoon reboots The best one I've seen so far is the reboot of the Thundercats because that is a very interesting story That was good. It didn't last a good story I mean well actually that and the reboot of masters of the universe he man That was those were well-written stories. I mean those were very interesting Like it went beyond just a nostalgia was like hey We can actually take these characters in new directions, but also we can like tell stories We wanted to tell his kids like what if blah blah blah Happened and the whole thing with the snakeman was awesome. Yeah, I agree. That stuff is all right I really liked young justice as well. There's been some really good stuff You know why they canceled young justice, right? Because they're lame and they're stupid and I hate they couldn't sell enough toys Oh, I thought it was because they're lame and they're stupid and Scott hates them I thought that was in their press release They couldn't sell enough toys That shows the real cool. I Loved it It's got rise Darby in it. It's got freakin Jason or Steven Yoon from walking dead and also. What's his name? What's his name? He's so yeah, so huge also from walking dead plays Darrell. I can't think of his name Oh Norman Reedus Norman Reedus is in it It's full trans cool, man It's a bunch of tigers at all or lions lions lions lions. Sorry, but I'll come together make a giant robot Let's they have me at that. I will say that if they when they issue a tour, I'll probably buy it. Yeah That's like I keep hearing that the story it has real interesting twists as it goes So maybe that story part gets yeah I need to I need to keep giving it a few more chances because also the the pilot is Twice to three times as long as the normal episode. That's true. Yeah, they did Was a little long, but they you know they had to establish the whole let's go get our Lions lions and make sure your personality and let's make sure chunk or whatever his name is bars three times. Yeah. Yeah There's some there's some good dialogue. It's good. I got good quippy dialogue. I like it Yeah, it's got Murray in it going band meeting and meeting. You know, he's my least favorite aspect of that show See his face. I don't see the cartoon. I see his face when I love it I was so excited to hear he was in it Cuz I have a thing I have a dumb sucker for anything he does I loved him in that funny funny man funny funny stuff I'm making I think I'm just gonna make all of my cultural illusions from now on be circa the 70s All right battle the network stars Bionic man person imitations bionic man under woman. Yeah So I'm up for your your dystopic future Chips I just need to watch a lot of the Dean Martin roasts. Oh, those are great Those still are great. If you find them on YouTube like the jokes are so pretty funny Yeah, I like some too. I mean they're they're pretty off-color jokes, but man Well, they're They're weird right because they're not too off-color or they wouldn't have been allowed on broadcast television But they're off-color in the sense that we as a society have Being in good taste They're clean and off-color at the same time. It's weird. The best one of those is still a Johnny Carson's Karnak the his skit on the tonight show. Yeah, I was good This audience would laugh at Diana shore backing to a meat into a meat thermometer I See it's like they're great jokes. Yeah, what does that mean? It was a pretty good bit. It was always funny Backing into a meat thermometer at the time Everyone would try to interpret it that in the innocent way whereas these days. We're all like we don't want any means by that It was always a little subversive, but it didn't it wasn't apparent It's it was all the innuendo. That's and that's some of the brilliance of the jokes is that they walked that fine line because they don't Literally say anything lewd or I couldn't get away with it But I'm Carson had his job because Jack Parr said water closet on the tonight show for goodness sake Yeah, and like so everything is an illusion or innuendo and so that's what makes us like What makes it funny is like the cultural concept. Yeah, I know what he means I forgot how much of a role that Ed McMahon played on that show too. Oh, yeah, no being a second fiddle He had to laugh and be that guy or else. It was essentially a co-host He was just shy of being a co-host Yeah, and he you know The he would drink enough before the show that it almost was its own co-host as well His drinks were also. Yeah, you know, Roger got to meet Ed McMahon. No way. I totally Fixed or I totally showed him how to use a webcam That's cool. He is at the time when he was still alive, and I met him. He was one of the coolest He met a living I was I was hoping you were on star shirt search or something. Oh, I would have been awesome What would I do? I guess I could have done the junior dancing bit except I've never seen any guys on that It was always girls. You're always girls. Yeah, they have their they have their sexism in stone there I do remember they did one where they had you know They had rock bands on and one of the bands they featured was a Japanese metal band and they won Like they had like these really kind of outrageous outfits like shoulder pads with spikes on it Like very mad maxi or mad maxi It was what was that loudness sounds like loudness maybe Japanese family, but uh, yeah, they won. It was great The comics were really bad though. I did not find any of the stand-up comedies. They had funny Well, yeah, cuz Ed didn't want anyone to threaten him Throw a chain from beyond the grave. I know No, and the other one I always thought was weird was the spokespersons Oh, I mean I understood it the spokesmodel like oh you have to wear an evening dress a swimsuit and then you have to Say something I forgot Say something yeah, like they have it was late sentence It was basically for them to do a beauty contest without calling it a beauty contest, right? Yeah, it was a way for them to insert a beauty contest for the eye candy Like really who would stick around to watch a bunch of kids jump around dancing You should do a competition for frog pants spokesmodel. I'm getting on it. Roger. Are you interested sure? Oh Spokes frog Spokes frog. Oh, we're a we're a singlet. I'm trying. Oh gosh If you're our spokes frog will turn you into a prince. Yes. Oh Hey, have you seen the Breton Reed? You know who Breton Reed are if those is two guys that do those Really funny commercials on a budget local commercials. Isn't that Rhett and link Rhett link desi? Yeah, I was like, I don't know Breton Reed. I do know Rhett and link. Sorry. I'm in red. This is a Breton Reed Is Woods and I know Rhett and link they did one for the Salt Lake Salt Lake City Community College Beauty School. You did have you seen that one? Yeah, we played it on $2 for a haircut such a way I know the thing is I've actually been in that salon or whatever you want to call the college school thing I would never ever freaking get my haircut there. Really? Yeah, it's like Mmm, how do I put this? It's it's all students Right. That's the whole point. I know which I understand and this is how they learn and they cut hair and stuff But I've I've never seen anybody sitting there getting up to leave or that I've heard that went there that ended up with like a Haircut that wasn't kind of a nightmare So I don't know what that is. I never tried it. So I can't say for sure But it's only two dollars You know what if you get twenty dollars worth of haircuts there eventually they'll get it right. Yeah, just keep going You'll eventually hit somebody that's gonna graduate. Yeah Although now they have a massage school there. That's real good. They're cheap and then they're good masseuse people Here's the thing there was a point in my life where I cut my own hair because I was that broke and Roger knew me at that point I Would have if I could have found a place for two dollars you do it course you would yeah I have a I have a record. You don't know about you want to know my record and That maybe you'll look at me now and think oh well That's obvious now Scott now that you say it but I have never paid for a single haircut my entire life Oh Because you've always had friends family that were always have my mom do it So when I was growing my mom was always doing people's hair mine included to the other kids neighbor kids everybody else from them In college had a friend who did it and then My mom still doesn't town and then when I met Kim and we started dating from dating all the way through our entire marriage She's cut it. Huh? So I've yet to ever pay for a single haircut and I don't think I have okay hair. It's fine Yeah, you're for you. I would have never been like no you can tell But now it just feels like this challenge where I can't I can never pay for a haircut now ever mm-hmm And it's not that I'm cheap fine. I'd love you know, whatever. I'm sure they do a great job But I'm gonna I'm gonna get you drunk and get you to take you to a barber Break two streaks at once Find a bar with a barber and Barber without a bar. There you go. All right Well, I my dad used to cut my hair and he would he would sit me in the middle of the kitchen on a small chair And he would cut a newspaper with a hole of those red brown stuffed it around my head so it'd be like a little Or they call it, you know thing to cover you and he would spend it a bull I wish you would spend an hour and give me like the worst haircut at least it was Symmetrically bad on both sides. I would get a buzz cuts my dad would you know just take the clippers out? Those are pretty easy though. That was only in the summer All right. Thank you everybody for watching. We'll be back tomorrow with Justin Romberg young