 This is the Humanist Report with Mike Figueredo The Humanist Report podcast is funded by viewers like you through Patreon and PayPal. To support the show visit patreon.com forward slash humanist report or become a member at humanistreport.com Now enjoy the show Welcome to the Humanist Report podcast. My name is Mike Figueredo and this is episode 276 of the program Today is Friday, February 5th And before we get started I want to thank all of the individuals who make the show possible of our Patreon PayPal and YouTube members All of which either signed up for the very first time to support us this week or increased the monthly pledge that they were already Giving us and that includes Andrew crowded crow Dominique Richardson Douglas young Greg Tides Harold L. Nicole Inez Williamson Jenna Knicks Joe Cross John Ellis John Mertz Judith Moser Mark Melissa Lynn Michael Martin Owen Johnson Peter Pollard Ray Ray Scott Rizzo Shannon J Brooks and Tyler Geisbrecht So thank you so much to all of these kind individuals if you'd also like to support the show enjoy the independent progressive media revolution You can do so by going to humanistreport.com slash support Patreon.com slash Humanist Report or by clicking join underneath any one of our YouTube videos We've got another fantastic episode for you this week We will talk about COVID deniers that shut down a vaccine site Additionally Marjorie Taylor Green is a lot crazier than any of us imagined and The peasants took on the Wall Street hedge funds and one we'll talk about the reaction to Wall Street bets from elites Also, Republicans proposed a counter offer to the Democratic Party stimulus plan We'll talk about that Additionally Dave Rubin has a theory about the far right that they are actually the far left Yeah The my pillow CEO made a splash on Newsmax TV. We'll talk about that Additionally AOC shares more details about the traumatic day when the Capitol was stormed by far-right extremists That's what we've got on the agenda for today's episode. Hopefully you will enjoy the program Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez has recently talked about how during the January 6th Insurrection of the Capitol there was a moment where she actually thought she was legitimately going to die She hasn't really talked much about that incident until now During an Instagram live stream where she discloses some more details and she shares how it really was the situation where She felt like that was the end of her life So we're gonna show some clips from her Instagram live stream And then we're gonna talk about the response because the response to her sharing this traumatic experience. I Don't even know what to say. It's Absolutely Morally reprehensible and you really just you're learning how cold people are in politics where they've dehumanized folks Like AOC to the point where you know, they are laughing at her having what she believed was a near-death experience And it's just gross But nonetheless, let's listen to her story because I think this is important I opened the door when all of a sudden I hear That whoever was trying to get inside got into my office And Then I realized that it's too late That it's too late for me to get into the closet and so I Go back in and I hide back in In the bathroom behind the door and Then I just start to hear these yells of Where is she? Where is she and I just thought to myself they got inside and so I hide behind my door Like this like I'm here and the bathroom door starts going like this like the bathroom doors behind me Rather in front of me and I'm like this and the door hinges right here, and I just hear where is she where is she and This was the moment where I Thought everything was over And the weird thing about moments like these is that you lose all sense of time In retrospect Maybe it was four seconds. Maybe it was five seconds. Maybe it was ten seconds. Maybe it was one second I don't know it felt like My brain was able to have so many thoughts in that moment Between these screams and these yells of where is she where is she and so I Go down and I just I mean I thought I was going to die And I had a lot of thoughts you have a lot of thoughts I think when you're in a situation like that And like also one of those thoughts that I had was you know, I just happened to You know be a spiritual person and be raised in that context and I really just felt like you know If this is the plan for me Then people will be able to take it from here I Had a lot of thoughts But that was the thought that I had about you all I felt that If this was the journey that my life was taking that I Felt that things were going to be okay And that you know, I had fulfilled my purpose That is horrifying it sounds like a nightmare Now she later learned that the individual who was screaming where is she was a capital police officer and Once he came in they still kind of got weird vibes because if you're a capital police officer shouldn't you announce that you are capital police and After he was talking with her he was still super aggressive and he told her basically yelled at her go to this area in the capital He didn't tell her which room they should be in in this particular building and when they got there they ran there They weren't escorted there her and one of her staffers ran there and they were basically left wondering where do we go? They heard the rioters outside, so they were questioning whether or not they were in more danger after listening to this individual and Even though in theory like you think okay, this is someone who's supposed to protect me It's a capital police officer, right well after seeing the way that they opened the gates For the insurrectionists. I'm not so sure that that individual Was on her side like if I were in that situation and Capital police basically let this happen at least the substantial portion of them when they were taking selfies I wouldn't necessarily feel safe So the fact that they got a bad vibe from this individual after you know, he was screaming at her I Don't blame them. I don't blame them at all now She explains that this situation was particularly traumatic because she experienced past trauma before and she came out as a sexual assault survivor Which is something that is very very difficult to do folks who tell us to move on that it's not a big deal that we should forget what's happened or Even telling us to apologize these are the same tactics of abusers and and I'm a survivor of sexual assault And I haven't told many people that in my life But when we go through trauma Trauma compounds on each other I give her credit that is something that's really difficult to do because in this day and age when we're supposed to be Applauding sexual assault survivors and encouraging them to come out and share their stories like this is the Me Too era, right? You have so many people like laughing this off downplaying it. Oh, she's just being melodramatic Nobody wanted to kill her is that so because one of the individuals who was charged during the capital insurrection Opely talked about wanting to assassinate AOC specifically. Is it really that shocking? To think that white supremacists who are violent who were storming the capital wouldn't be targeting individuals like AOC Ilhan Omar Rashida Tlaib. I Just you know the callousness is really what strikes me from this story Like the response to her is what strikes me and I don't want to give you this false impression that most people Dismissed this and and mocked her Because most people were supportive most people, you know are standing in solidarity with AOC as she shares This story, but usually, you know the most negative Things that we see are what kind of stay with us now one more clip that I want to play for you before I talk about the response from Right-wingers and some who claim to be on the left Is from representative Katie Porter in an interview with Lawrence O'Donnell on MSNBC She talked about how when her and AOC connected the response That AOC had like the look on her face. Um, she was rattled. Well, at first, you know, she saw me She and we waved and went into my office and a couple seconds later She not and she said, you know, could we could we come in and I said, of course and she began to Do her staffer was trying to describe what had happened and Alex is really usually like unfailingly polite And very personable and she wasn't even really talking to me She was opening up doors and and I was like, can I help you like what are you looking for and She said I'm looking for where I'm going to hide and the thing that will always stay with me The two memories that really, you know, especially as a mom. I think we're just really Powerful for me was when she said, you know, I I was saying, well, don't worry. I'm a mom. I'm calm I've got everything here. We need we could live for like a month in this office And she said I just hope I get to be a mom. I hope I don't die today And the second thing is she was wearing heels And I remember her saying to me I was wearing flats and I remember her saying to me. I knew I shouldn't have worn heels How am I gonna run? And we went and we found her a pair of sneakers to wear from one of my staffers So that she could run if she needed to literally run for her life I can't imagine what she was going through that sounds absolutely horrible And this is going to be something that stays with her for the rest of her life Like she was already dealing with existing trauma being a sexual assault survivor, but that moment that's going to Stay with her forever. Uh, she's gonna carry that with her for the rest of her life Um speaking from firsthand experience when you deal with Psychological trauma, it doesn't just like go away like you can't just get over it as easy as that sounds you can't It stays with you for years and decades Um, but the response was just as I alluded to earlier I don't even know how to describe this. It's just it's cold-hearted So, uh, right wing conspiracy theorist Steven Crowder tweeted out an image of Carl Marx with the shirt that says sees the means of reproduction And he wrote allegedly aoc's abuser was found. Um, I'm not necessarily sure what the joke is here Apparently, this is supposed to be funny. Uh, but this is just his way of belittling her experience there Uh, Michael Tracy tweeted out good to know that any loopy delusion Expounded by a politician must now be respected and quote believed under the aegis of trauma Unreal and it's not just right wingers. There were some individuals who claim to be left wingers Which I don't think that they're left wingers if they're downplaying this. Uh, that's that, you know, they're just laughing at this Oh, well, you know She's being melodramatic. Um, you know, what about the folks Who are uh dying because they don't have health care since she didn't agree to the strategy of force to vote Therefore that means she doesn't support Medicare for all in my twisted view of the world and therefore, you know, I don't care if she thought she was gonna die Because what about the people who are dying now? Like the the mental gymnastics that people jump through in their minds To downplay this it just shows you that like there's there's no rationale. There's no logic There's no human empathy. It's just like in politics We've come to a point where we always work backwards from whatever conclusion we've arrived at and some folks Have just chosen to make aoc the enemy demonized like one of the only left wing members of congress Who's a genuine ally demonize her and so whatever she says is invalid anything she says is wrong because she's the enemy She's the enemy. This is the result of uh Conditioning by folks with very large platforms who just do nothing but rail against aoc attack attack attack She's the enemy. She's stopping you from having medicare for all. She's the problem. It's not corporate democrats. It's not republicans It's her. It's just sickening like the state of the left right now It it really worries me. Um, it's just it's like a snake eating its own tail, right? Demonizing aoc like I think that holding politicians accountable is absolutely necessary and warranted You have to hold Everyone in congress accountable because they're in a position of power They're in a position of great influence where they can actually affect change But perhaps Maybe when they're like sharing their story about how they believe that they were going to die That's not necessarily the right time to do it. Maybe Maybe this is just me Wait until a different instance. Maybe when it's more appropriate To bring up something like maybe when they're Sharing the fact that they're a sexual assault survivor and dealt with existing trauma That might not necessarily be the best time to air your grievances with this individual who was an ally to us. Believe it or not It's just shocking to me and because she Wasn't actually being hunted down by you know a far-right extremist storming the capital because it was a capital police officer People are claiming that um, she's just being melodramatic Does that make her feelings? Any less real There are people who literally suffer from panic disorder Who have what's known as amygdala hijack? I think it's called where they just like inexplicably have panic attacks They uh Have this like influx of adrenaline their heart starts racing. They start sweating And they have that fight-or-flight response. It could be Like just the most random time ever You could be in the store grocery shopping and all of a sudden you get the instinct To get out run because you feel like you're gonna die. There's no reason for it. But people get this Does it mean they're actually in danger? No, but are those feelings real? Yeah, they're pretty fucking real. They're pretty fucking terrifying I'm speaking from firsthand experience Where you could just be Doing the most random thing ever watching a movie you're relaxing you're having a great time and all of a sudden There it goes You're in full-on panic mode out of nowhere And you feel like you're going to die you have that instinct to Run away, but there's nothing that's attacking you So you you kind of just like sit there and you try to play it off because you don't want to look like an idiot in front of other people um, but In in your own mind and your body you're feeling all of this it's not just psychological It's physiological as well Your heart's racing And it's horrifying Is there actually danger? No, but that doesn't make the feeling any less real And horrifying and each time you suffer from a panic attack like this, you know, um, you remember it You fear when the next one is going to come This is what aoc is trying to talk about because she had existing trauma like She's always in that mindset Like where if something traumatizing or scary happens She immediately is going to think oh my god, it's happening again I'm in great danger And it's not like she didn't have a good reason to believe that she was in danger During this insurrection because again, there are violent white supremacists who want her dead And I just I don't understand the callousness. I don't get it I just um, yeah, I'm very very Uh discouraged at the state of politics currently on the left, but thankfully You know, we're kind of in this echo chamber where The dumbest folks usually are the loudest, but they're not the majority and we still can move forward and progress Um, but the help of allies like aoc and so if we expect her To, you know, represent us and have our backs, you know, maybe at a time like this We should be having her back And uh, defending her because what she went through is awful The trump supporting ceo of my pillow mike lindell appeared on newsmax tv to talk about how he was banned from twitter I'm assuming he was planning to complain about how he's being censored and this is cancel culture But the interview itself came to a screeching halt when he said something That prompted the anchors to stop the interview Because they were worried that this guy was going to get them sued So they basically had to read what appeared to be a legal statement from newsmax tv And hilarity ensued, uh, take a look I don't want to say much more about this because I don't want to spoil it, but this was absolutely golden So what happened? What what happened with your twitter account and the company page? Well, first mine was taken down because we have all the election fraud with these dominion machines We have a hundred percent proof and then I when they took it down Mike And then I'm gonna put it back up my personal I put it Mike, thank you very much. Mike. Mike You're talking about machines, uh, that that we at newsmax have not been able to verify any of Those kinds of allegations We just want to let people know that there's nothing substantive that we've seen and let me read you something there While there were some clear evidence of some cases of vote fraud and election irregularities the election results in every state Were certified and newsmax accepts the results as legal and final The courts have also supported that view So we wanted to talk to you about Canceling culture if you will we don't want to relitigate The allegations that you're making mike because we we understand where you are So let me ask you this do you think that this should be temporary because it appears to be permanent Could you make an argument that it is temporary? what Could you make an argument that this could be a temporary banning rather than Permanent no, I wanted to be a permanent because you know what they did this because i'm revealing all the evidence on friday Of all the election problem with these machines. So i'm sorry if you think it's not Mike's Can I ask our producers can we uh get out of here, please? Uh, I don't want to have to keep going over this We newsmax have not been able to verify any of those allegations Mike hold on a second. Everybody hold on a second. Mike. Mike. Hold on one second Let's talk a little bit about just what is happening overall in terms of censorship Cancel out my company and myself in this country. It's cancel culture wow, I mean, I don't know what they expected because Mike Lindell has kind of proven that he is A deranged lunatic and he was banned from twitter specifically because he was spreading misinformation about the election So did you not expect him to bring up dominion because I felt like if you were going to invite him on your program That would be part of the conversation But the reason why for those of you who don't know newsmax was really worried about what he was saying there and they had to stop him Was because they don't want to be sued In fact after they were spreading this information about the election and defaming dominion Well, they threatened them with a lawsuit. So they had to basically Come out with this apology and statement saying that there's no evidence that dominion was involved in flipping the votes It was this big thing So they're trying to move past that and then they bring on this jackass Who's claiming that dominion was part of the effort that led to the election being stolen Which there's no evidence for but they literally had no choice like legally they were obligated to stop him And read that legal statement. It was just it was hilarious Play stupid games win stupid prizes invite lunatics on your program Don't be surprised when they say things that are so crazy that you're going to be worrying whether or not You'll be sued and I'd love the plot twist in that segment I don't know if you caught it But when uh the anchor tried to change the subject back to twitter and asked them So do you think that you can make the case that your twitter ban should be? You know temporary instead of permanent The ceo Michael indel says no, I want it to be permanent Well, then why are you complaining if they literally gave you exactly what you wanted? What's the problem? Like you you say That you've been banned and this is bad, but yet you want the ban to be permanent No, I don't know what he was trying to say like maybe the point was that well I want to be permanently banned because this just proves that the left supports cancel culture and they want to censor conservatives Maybe that was the point, but overall the way that he Was trying to make his case as to why twitter banning him was bad But yet he wants the ban to be permanent like it's just it's incoherent like I don't get what the overall message is And for whatever reason right wingers have become so accustomed to like playing the victims that now whenever they're banned from like twitter Or facebook or whatever they conflate that to Their free speech rights being violated. You know how like we have the first amendment and the government isn't supposed to censor us Well, now if a private company like twitter banned you that apparently is tantamount to your free speech being violated This is why they need to teach civics in high school because nobody knows The meanings of the political terms that they use and we just need to like get a little refresher because That doesn't mean your free speech was violated Now, uh, you know, there's the conversation that we all should be having About how these silicon valley tech companies have way too much power and they need to be uh reigned in We need to regulate them more. We need to use antitrust laws to break them up Nationalize them if need be regulate them as public utilities. That's a legitimate conversation But what republicans like to do donald trump michael indell is They'll get banned After they have had repeated Warnings and then they play the victim immediately like donald trump people forget this He wasn't just bad immediately when he started to spread misinformation Um about the election which ultimately led to the capital insurrection that culminated in you know him getting banned from twitter, um Every single tweet almost that he made after the election was a lie And twitter flagged all of them So it wasn't until like a month or so later when there was actually violence as a result of his lies That they took any action Like and and so it's shocking to me that folks defend individuals like michael indell and donald trump When normal folks get banned all the time from twitter and nobody makes a peep about that But the minute it's like this right winger who literally incites violence And michael indell is part of that too if you're lying about the election That led to people thinking that they needed to storm the capital to save democracy you're part of that as well But like that's that's when people like Choose to die on this hill no i'm i'm pro free speech. So we literally should allow people who incite riots To have access to a twitter account like it's weird to me But it's funny that like this dude was going on there He was gonna play the victim and newsmax thought they had this easy segment where you know We'll just bring this idiot on he'll talk about cancel culture and how the left wants to censor conservatives But they uh, they got something that they did not bargain for They got him saying something that would almost get them sued And so now I really want to see more conservatives go on newsmax tv and mention dominion So that way they have that uh Little scrambling session where they try to like stop them and um It gets to a point where they just leave because they don't want to be involved They don't want to be personally legally accountable I love this Every second of that was golden It is almost impossible to keep up with all of the news Regarding marjorie taylor green a congresswoman from george's 14th congressional district last week We went over all of the most bizarre conspiracy theories that I thought she believed but believe it or not There's even more conspiracy theories that may be more bizarre than the ones we already knew about For example, she once suggested that a space laser controlled by jewish elites may have been responsible for the california wildfires She also suggested that ruth bettergainsburg died and was replaced with a body double So of course, you know, trump wouldn't be able to name her replacement Now I think that that conspiracy theory was disproven last year But nonetheless the fact that she believes these things Leads me to think that there's no conspiracy theory that she wouldn't fall for and you already see some leftist online Trying to catfish her in a way by uh sending her dms through twitter saying listen I've got some evidence that's going to lead to the arrest of hillary clinton Like she's very trollable because she will believe anything. She's a rube like anything that has a hint of conspiracy to it or um Anti-semitism it seems like she'll gobble it up. It's it's honestly sad Especially because like we're not talking about some random individual who's lost. This is a policymaker You can't function as a competent policymaker if you don't have like a bare minimum level Of intelligence and you're that far gone and she hasn't even been in congress for a month And she already can't even coexist with her colleagues because kory bush asked her to wear a mask Since they're kind of neighbors their offices are close to each other and that led to her berating kory bush And kory bush then feeling forced to move for office because this person Is very clearly a lunatic if you can't even react like a grown-up to somebody asking you to wear a mask And you berate them then i mean i don't i don't blame kory bush I would want to move my office away from her too now in a way I think that even though like what she represents is utterly terrifying Democrats can use this to their advantage if they're smart if they're savvy if they're disciplined in their messaging And what they need to do is make her the face of the republican party because like it or not She kind of is an accurate representation of a significant portion of the gop's base all of their years of you know Trying to appeal to racists using dog whistles, you know conspiracy theories playing loose with the facts has culminated in this a possible takeover of their own party With lunatics now thankfully it does seem as if democrats are planning to make her the face of the republican party And i think it would behoove them to do this because they want to turn people off like overall This will make republicans more popular with a certain sector of society But most normal americans are going to be turned off by this and thankfully what marjorie taylor green is doing Is kind of causing this civil war slash existential crisis to occur Within the republican party at least when it comes to george's republican party Because they're currently panicking trying to find some way to distance themselves from this lunatic who's already been legitimized by Donald trump. Donald trump called her a rising star So the question is like what what do we do after we spent years? Appealing and catering to these people like we never thought that they would take over our party But here we are so the question is what do we do? And uh, this story is laid out beautifully by mark caputo of politico who writes the georgia GOP is tearing itself apart in a civil war It lost two senate seats in an ill-fated january runoff election And the once republican suburbs in metro atlanta the most part of this part of the state Have bolted toward the democratic side now It's contending with another budding public relations catastrophe Representative marjorie taylor green the newly elected congresswoman Who's extremist beliefs and promotion of bizarre conspiracy theories have rocketed her to national notoriety The calls for censure and her removal from congress don't appear to have damaged her standing in her conservative north georgia district And may have even strengthened the so-called qanon congresswoman there for now She tweeted friday that she raised 1.6 million off all the controversy and on saturday told her 300 000 followers She just had a chat with the support of donald trump the former president who has referred to her as a future republican star This is what a nightmare scenario looks like. Yeah, I bet And to that I say you've made your bed. So now lie in it Play stupid games win stupid prizes try to appeal to lunatics Don't be surprised When they end up taking over your party because that's exactly what's happening The republican party is being taken over by complete lunatics. It's not just marjorie taylor green Laura bobert is another member of congress who supports qanon or was subscribed to that conspiracy theory And she during the capital insurrection literally tweeted out Nancy Pelosi's location presumably because she wanted Nancy Pelosi to be targeted by the insurrectionists Like these folks are deranged more so than the already deranged members of the g.o.p. I mean when you think of ted Cruz And uh louis gomer jim in hope you think These people like you can't get worse than them But then laura bobert and marjorie taylor green show up and it's like okay So I guess that the bar is even lower than I thought So, um, you know, I don't know how this is going to play out Is there going to be a civil war in the republican party? I really don't know because when we saw the way that the republican party establishment handled the tea party they kind of did it in a pretty Strategic way like they didn't necessarily reject the tea party outright They kind of co-opted that movement and embraced it Not that it was like a genuine grassroots movement because this was funded by billionaires like the Koch brothers But they kind of like embraced them and adopted some of the rhetoric and just overall Shifted further to the right to accommodate the tea party. Um So what's gonna happen? Like are they going to shift further to the right to accommodate these q and on conspiracy theorists? I mean in theory Q and on should be done because everything that q said was wrong. Trump is out of power He didn't arrest people. Biden was sworn in so that should be done But I mean when it comes to these sorts of conspiracy minded individuals who makes alex jones seem reasonable in comparison What are they going to do? I mean, I would think that they're probably going to do what they did with the tea party and just embrace This element of their party shift a little bit further to the right Just to accommodate these people because how many republicans are already signed down to donald trump's scam To claim that the election was stolen and how many voted to not certify the election results So so they're already kind of doing it like they're already kind of shifting to the right And becoming authoritarian to accommodate folks like this So and it's not just to accommodate folks like marjorie taylor green specifically to be clear It's to accommodate the gop's increasingly extremist base. So what is this going to lead to? I don't know. Will she be censured? Don't know. Will she be expelled? I don't know. Should she? Absolutely because if you don't even accept democracy itself If you refuse to certify the results of the election and your anti democracy, you shouldn't serve in a democratic body Will she though don't think so. I don't think so And if she's not then democrats would be foolish to not use this as an opportunity to paint her as the face of the republican party To try to turn off more people because I mean the republican party is already extremist. So I don't know what more examples you need But if this doesn't turn people off to the republican party Then america as we know it is in a lot worse shape than previously thought So i'm sure that there's going to be more conspiracy theories about marjorie taylor green that come out And i'm not going to lie. I'm really enjoying this story Any news surrounding her i'm gobbling that shit up because it's entertaining like it's sad because it hurts democracy But at the same time it is kind of nice To see everything we predicted come to fruition even if we were hoping to be wrong Like when we said years ago that the republicans are playing a dangerous game by pandering to these types of folks And it's going to come back to bite them. It is nice to see us be proven right Even if that comes at a cost, but you know, we'll see how they handle this. I just I don't know. Uh, I'm too cynical. I think that they're going to end up embracing folks like marjorie taylor green They're just they're too far gone. The party is is I don't know how you deal with this party. It's fucking insane So I think that a general issue that we all anticipated with regard to the covet 19 vaccine Is getting people to want to take the vaccine We can't actually end the pandemic if people are skeptical about the vaccine or are afraid to take it So we have to get them to want to take it. We have to combat the spread of misinformation That's something that I think we all knew was going to be part of this process But one thing that I didn't necessarily anticipate was getting people who don't want to take the covet 19 vaccine To not want to stop others from taking the covet 19 vaccine Because that's what happened. There was a small protest at the dodger's stadium in los angeles And they blocked traffic and ended up shutting down the entire vaccine site temporarily So this is something that we also have to deal with So as mary popinfuss of huff post reports anti-vaxxer and far-right protesters blocked the entrance of a mass vaccine site at dodger's stadium in los angeles on saturday Forcing officials to temporarily shut down the operation dozens of protesters holding aloft signs reading save your soul And covet equals scam halted traffic Stranding hundreds of people desperate to get the life-saving injections the los angeles fire department closed the site at mid-afternoon The los angeles times reported it was reopened about an hour later reported nbc news The protest was apparently organized on social media the quote unquote scam demic march organizers One participants to refrain from wearing trump slash maga attire as we want our statement to resonate with the sheeple the times reported This is completely wrong said german jack kez who drove some six hours to get to the site I've been waiting for weeks to get an appointment. He told the times. I am a dentist. I'm taking a big risk being around patients I want to be safe for my patients and for my family. Yeah Now here is a quick video that gives you a little bit of a taste of the insanity that ensued followed by A shot of the traffic jam that this caused and it was massive Gee you think maybe because bill gates is paired start playing parenthood and they like to kill babies And sell their body parts to the highest bidder. You ever think about that? Needless to say my faith in humanity is at an all-time low Um, there were these fact sheets quote unquote fact sheets that were handed out to people in cars And some of these so-called protesters were harassing individuals in cars calling them sheeples and whatnot There's actually a clip of that as well Hey guys, there's two That is just Insane, um, this is really depressing and I was starting to feel a little bit more optimistic But this kind of got me back into that doomer mindset seeing this really, um, it kind of rattled me because Look at the way that we're responding to something that theoretically shouldn't be That confusing If we can't even address a pandemic in a competent way and you see all of these conspiracy theories pop up How the hell are we going to solve a much more pressing issue? Like climate change. I just It you know seeing things like this it makes me feel hopeless And you know, they were saying have fun being a byproduct of bill gates And there was another lady like walking around filming the people in the car And I think she was calling them sheep Um, you had a lady on that had a shirt that said fake news and she was referring to cnn But ironically i'm sure that she gets her news from facebook memes and oan the problem is that Folks they've arrived at like the correct conclusion in a way But the way that they got there Has led them astray. So like they have this vague idea about elites like bill gates And they know that elites in general billionaires in general are bad But they don't know why they're bad. They can't articulate an intelligent reason why we should fear people like bill gates Like for me from my perspective Bill gates is a billionaire He exploited the labor of his employees To get rich make billions of dollars and the wealthy elites in this country In a capitalist system wealth equals power and they use the power that they have to perpetually rig the system in their favor So they continue to increase their wealth while the poor gets stuck with crumbs So that's why we should not like the elites But to these individuals the reason why they don't like elites Is because they think that people like bill gates are either satanic pedophiles or in the case of covet 19 He's not actually trying to like fund the vaccine to stop the spread of the virus He's trying to inject people with like the mark of the beast or rfid chips I don't know what the conspiracy theory is in particular Related to bill gates and I will say that like we shouldn't have to rely On the generosity of billionaires to fund projects like this or help fund projects like this Whatever his role in this was and we should just be taxing him and funding these initiatives through the government Like big farmers should be nationalized like i'm aware that there are criticisms with you know elites But the conclusions that they arrive at like how they get from point a to point b point b being that elites are bad Is where all the problems arrive It's why you can't work with right wingers because even if they agree that the establishment is the problem and elites in this country are bad Well, since they arrived at that conclusion differently the solutions That they would apply are completely different. So in this instance these folks think you just don't get vaccinated because You know, it's bad. You're getting Sick from the vaccines on top of that. They think that you are going to receive the mark of the beast I'm guessing there's so many conspiracy theories related to the covet 19 vaccines that I can't keep up But this is dangerous This is dangerous People are dying in america. We're almost at 450 000 deaths and you have people like this Blocking traffic and literally getting an entire vaccine site shut down. This is the largest vaccine site in los angeles And just the small group of people shut it down Imagine if the rest of the conspiratorial people who are trump supporters Knew how easy it was to do something like this This is horrifying absolutely horrifying Now I want to show you some additional pictures here. You have one guy holding a sign that says end the lockdown You have this guy He has a sign with really small text that you can't even read but you can kind of see exactly what you know It's alluding to that vaccines are bad. They have a bunch of chemicals in it He can't necessarily explain why vaccines are bad, but they're bad because chemicals sound scary So, you know, I don't know what it is ignorance breeds fear You have this person that has a sign that says I only like muzzles in the bedroom So she's just, you know, so clever so edgy and the other side of the same sign As you can see from the picture on the left says 99.96 survival rate Now I've seen this statistic a lot As reason to like not take covid 19 seriously First of all, that's wrong. That is not the survival rate. It's about one percent But it really varies depending on your age your medical conditions if you have any co-morbidities And furthermore, like when you just look at that number one percent, it seems small In a vacuum But we as human beings we don't exist in a vacuum. So you need some perspective here back in may of 2020 The attending physician for congress predicted about 70 to 150 million americans would contract covid 19 Now currently we're not there yet. We're at around 26 million cases with 440,000 deaths But if that early estimate actually did bear out, here's what a one percent mortality rate would actually look like Quote a one percent mortality rate at that scale of infection is between 700,000 and 1.5 million dead Roughly the population of washington dc on the low end or the entire population of hawaii on the high end So yeah one percent might sound small in theory, but if you just look at the raw numbers, that's a lot of human lives That are lost if like the worst-case scenario bore out if hawaii just suddenly disappeared like that Wouldn't we be concerned or would we think well? It's only like one percent of the us population or the human population So, you know, there's a lot more humans statistically. You're not likely to Disappear so we shouldn't care. No, of course not because we're human beings We have empathy for other human beings I just I don't get this thinking Well, you know, if i'm young and healthy, it's probably not going to impact me as badly So, you know, if old people die, fuck it. I just I don't understand this thinking I don't get it how selfish and disgusting this is and it's not like oh, well We shouldn't care because there's a high survival rate of covid 19 Most people do survive covid 19 But the issue is that there are long-term health effects that linger for who knows how long how long do people with covid 19 lose Their sense of taste or smell is it permanent? We don't know and also this photograph provided by texas tech university shows That the people who had covid 19 their lungs even compared to smokers looks absolutely terrible Like you don't have to be an expert or be able to read x-rays to know Why it looks so different why it's much worse than normal lungs or even smokers lungs like this is serious and like Even when it comes to the common cold, we all get colds. We know that we're going to survive this But still if someone had a cold Would you just let them cough in your face because you know that there's going to be a high percentage that you survive that? Of course not because it still sucks to get sick So this line of thinking is fucking stupid and not wanting to get the vaccine yourself That's one thing but to literally actively stop people From getting the vaccine under the guise of you are protecting them. You're trying to save their soul Which tells me this is some like nutty evangelical thing it's just The species cannot survive with this level of stupidity And then you have figures Who spread misinformation with large platforms about vaccines and that also compounds makes the issue much worse It's just it's really really frustrating So, uh, the vaccine is needed to save lives. You're not helping. You're hurting people if you're against this You're hurting people By doing this and if they genuinely believe that like they care about these folks then wouldn't calling them fucking sheeple Not persuade them to your side like that sounds fucking stupid How many of these people who are using the term sheeple watch oan follow trump religiously subscribe to a religion And they're calling other sheeple like these people are the dumbest in society like they are the absolute dumbest of the dumb And it's individuals like them who hold the entire human race back So these folks should be absolutely ashamed of themselves, but they have no shame They genuinely believe that what they're doing is noble and they think that they're saving lives when in actuality They're not they're hurting all of us Dave Rubin otherwise known as rave dubin has a really interesting new theory About the far right. Um, his theory is that they're actually the left I don't have the full clip. So I don't know like what the full context is like Why this was included in the broader conversation that he was having with his audience nonetheless, what he says here is um We'll call it fascinating Now, is there some far right? Which really is far left because it's collectivist. Is there some white nationalist problem on the right? Well, yes, it's a tiny little thing that is no institutional power. I don't think trump is part of it I don't think tucker carlson is part of it and because it's collectivist It's actually left not right But that that's a whole separate issue if you were if you were really far right That would mean that you're just the ultimate individualist meaning you don't want government So, you know, that's like you want to live in mad max or something which I think is kind of fun to talk about But I don't think it's that real Okay, um That short clip that we just watched dare I say contained Too many high level ideas because I don't know how to respond to that Like my brain is in recovery mode from taking in too many high level important ideas I don't I don't know what to say I took the time to transcribe everything that he said there because I really wanted to dissect this And I still don't know How to make heads or tails of this he says now is there some far right Which really is far left. So his assertion is that there's not actually any white nationalists in the republican party because in actuality the far right really is the far left And the evidence for that is well the far right white nationalists specifically They're collectivist and since collectivists are leftists That means that white nationalists are actually leftists So that conveniently solves the white nationalist problem that the republican party currently has and it is now all of a sudden A problem that the democratic party has to deal with i'm assuming this is a very very, um It's an interesting Take the difference is that Would I describe white nationalists as collectivists because I kind of feel like he doesn't know what that means I think that white nationalists more specifically are tribalists Sure, they do prioritize the group Over the individual as collectivists do But the difference is that collectivists generally speaking from the standpoint of economic politics they Are looking at this from the perspective of in a civilized society Isn't it better that we pull resources so everyone benefits rather than letting some individuals go hungry Go homeless like it's that battle between wit versus yo-yo wit is w i t t We're in this together versus you're on your own. It's a very simplistic economic philosophy And so what he's saying is that white nationalists are actually collectivists because collectivists since they prioritize the group Well by definition that makes white nationalists who prioritize white identity Over everything else leftist It's some really interesting logic. You have to make a lot of leaps from point a to point b um, ultimately What this proves is nothing The point he's making Doesn't really make any sense. I think I've been a little bit too Generous and charitable and trying to make sense of what he was saying If white nationalists like to the extent That they actually support collectivism. It's to the exclusion Of everyone who is not white So if they theoretically support a welfare state, which we don't know that all white nationalists do maybe some do It is to the exclusion Of everyone else not necessarily collectivist. That's more tribalistic But he also said something in here. That's really interesting. So He says that White nationalists are they a problem on the right? Well, yes, it's a tiny little thing that has no Institutional power. He then goes on to name two very popular white nationalists with lots of institutional power He says, I don't think trump is part of it. I don't think tucker crawls in as part of it No, I don't know why he name dropped these two individuals, but donald trump was the president of the united states He was a white nationalist A white supremacist like he retweeted one of his own followers saying White power look at the policies that he instituted over the course of four years Someone who was a demagogue who specifically was demeaning and demonized other races calling mexicans rapists and whatnot That person is a white supremacist and he was the president If that's not institutional power, I don't know what is now when it comes to tucker crawls and someone who claims that immigrants make america dirtier That is pretty clearly white supremacist I don't think that individuals who aren't white supremacists would think that immigrants make america dirtier He also very clearly targets members of congress such as ilhan omar claims that she hates our country Our country excluding hers. That's the implication But he doesn't have institutional power according to Dave rubin when He's the host of the most popular news show In the country on the most popular news network In america So finally he says if you were really far right that would just mean you're the ultimate individualist Meaning you don't want government. So that's like you want to live in mad max or something Which I think is kind of fun to talk about but I don't think Is that real? so His view of political ideology is really really oversimplified and I don't think he has a grasp of the political terminology that he's using I just don't understand why he has a show Like he has to be the dumbest person in all of political commentary And this is across the left the right. I'm including the most extreme figures He's the dumbest out of everyone. You could tell like he's just genuinely Disinterested in politics Like he would be more suited to do commentary on gossip related to celebrities or something like that and he kind of did do that A long time ago like when he had his own show in the young turks He would interview celebrities like lance bass and whatnot and they'd talk about gossip and sometimes they'd get a little bit political But you know nothing nothing too in depth He doesn't want to be doing this you could tell but I mean he made this bed And this is the grift that he pursued. So, you know, you can't really back out. It's it's lucrative So he's pursuing it, but you can tell like he just he doesn't care like he doesn't read Political philosophy. He doesn't read any of the right wing figures that supposedly influence him He just he doesn't even know the talking points that right wingers use generally speaking like if I Listen to timpul's podcast. He's going to say Certain things That a lot of right wingers Say if you consume right wing media, they're all kind of going to think the same way and as a result say the same things They kind of parrot each other and whatnot um Dave Rubin doesn't sound anything like them like he's not part of That right wing echo chamber as his colleagues are like for me like if you watch Uh, David Dole, Kyle Kolinsky, Benjamin Dixon, you know, all of us We kind of have the same themes in our shows, right? We say kind of the same thing um, and the same is true On the right because if you think a certain way if he's subscribed to a certain political ideology like you're going to have a lot of overlap, but Dave Rubin's show is so like unique the only area where there's overlap with Other right wingers is when he talks about like cancel culture and stuff because that's easy You don't necessarily have to do research You just bring on like some right winger who was banned on twitter And you say this is evidence that we don't have free speech anymore. So unless it's like the laziest thing imaginable I mean his shell is almost apolitical. It's it's just so stupid. So I don't know what to say. Uh, this is uh, this is uh Dave Rubin very serious political commentator Who says that white nationalists the far right. They're actually the left Okay, rave Well, as you all know by now last week a single subreddit Wall Street bets beat short sellers at their own game And gave these hedge funds a taste of their own medicine And it was just beautiful to see and all of this culminated in the company that bet against GameStop Melvin capital Taking a hit of more than 50 percent You love to see it This really is a David versus Goliath story And what I also love about this story is it proved to normal americans that the system is rigged Against you and that was especially evident when robin hood interactive brokers and weeble all Literally stopped allowing people to buy shares from GameStop and amc All to protect these hedge funds that bet against GameStop Now we'll go to a story from the intercept where they talk about how this really demonstrates how financial tech firms Have far too much power and have to be reigned in But first I do want to have some fun because I want to talk about some of the reactions I didn't get a chance to talk about last week. Uh, that just really made my day First of all, I've got to share this clip from msnbc The butt hurt here is palpable This elite does not like that the peasants beat the elites at their own game. You're learning here Maybe it's fun fine. Maybe it's a movement But be prepared to lose 80 to 90 of it and if it's still worth it then have at it But the biggest loss of capital here will be the human capital of young men Who are sitting and staring at their phone and watching the price of bitcoin Or the price of amc and ask yourself Would you be better off taking that one or two or three hours a day and working out trying to form relationships? With mentors with with with romantic relationships with people at work Getting graded something so you can be the person on the other side of the trade The greatest loss in capital here is is from young men who are more prone to gambling addiction who don't understand The markets, I think we are setting ourselves up similar to how there's a ton of young women out there Who became very depressed by sitting in their rooms looking at instagram Self-cutting and self-harm skyrocket. I think you are going to see Uh an explosion and young Male depression and I think a lot of it is going to be reverse engineered to apps that convince you You're part of a movement or physically addict you to your phone ask yourself Would your time staring at robin who would be be better spent somewhere else? That is the real capital destruction that is taking place. I'm sorry What? That's a bit of a stretch. What do you say? He should he he's concerned about you He's not concerned about these hedge funds That are losing money because if you he's concerned about you Like shouldn't you be off of your phone? Shouldn't you put down? The phone get turn off robin hood go out there and uh Take a walk The fact that he said this and things people are going to take him seriously is hilarious Another clip that I have to share with you is from real life monopoly man billionaire hedge fund manager Leon cooperman who uh literally claimed on cnbc with a straight face that this is an attack on the wealthy The reason the market is doing what it's doing is people are sitting at home getting the checks from the government Okay, and this fair share is a bullshit concept It's just a way of attacking wealthy people and you know, I think it's inappropriate. We all got to work together and pull together He literally said that They're attacking wealthy people. Oh no Dude Are you serious? He can't be serious Do you think that people care about wealthy people When how many americans are losing their jobs? Are struggling to put food on the table not even making them a living wage You think that we care about elites because they lost money I think they're gonna be okay And uh, we actually have some live footage of elites reacting to wall street bets and uh game stop Do you think you'll let us stay? No, this place is so clean You and me, we're family You promised never to do it today And no one's ever gonna break us apart At this very moment you think that's pretty special Yeah, now for those of you unfamiliar with leon cooperman He is a bit of a drama queen. The last time that he made headlines Uh was because he literally was on cnbc and he cried Because the subject of the wealth tax came up. I wish I were making this up But I'm not he cried because he felt as if The rich in this country. They're just being demonized too much. I mean, I think it's kind of obvious people can Not only see the emotion on your face, but hear it in your voice When you talk about this lee why? I care That's it That was magical Now we've had our fun. So uh on a more serious note I do want to talk about what is uh, I think obvious What I hope should be obvious to everyone That we shouldn't allow these financial tech firms to be able to manipulate the market on behalf of these hedge funds They shouldn't have that much power. They have to be reigned in and the intercept laid out this argument Beautifully, this is by timmy iwayemi and max maran who argue to spite hedge fund bros Retail investors led a surge in game stop stock price largely through the trading app robin hood While progressives relished watching wall street's old guard scramble amid the chaos Financial tech firms like robin hood apps for lending investing and so on certainly aren't seeking an end to financial capitalism Indeed once wall street began shrieking about amateurs beating them at their own absurd game robin hood warned against the very market Volatility it was facilitating then shut down trading of game stop and other memed stocks Leading to at least one class action lawsuit and senate and house progressives calling for investigation Ultimately, it looks like the hedge fund robin hood users targeted melvin capital management Will just be partly bought by a different larger hedge fund citadel capital management a separate company called citadel securities Which has the same owner as citadel capital management ken griffin the richest man in illinois Facilitates some of robin hood's transactions robin hood itself makes money by selling data on users trades To giant wall street firms who then stake their own positions based off what the little guy is up to The securities and exchange commission also charged robin hood last month for offering bad trading prices to unsuspecting users Since those trades were routed through firms paying robin hood If true robin hood users were effectively paying a premium on their trades despite the app marketing itself as commission free This took place between 2015 and late 2018 when robin hood was growing rapidly according to the scc You wouldn't know any of this from robin hood's faux populist marketing about democratizing finance But much like traditional wall street and big tech firms before it Financial tech is building an echo chamber of industry voices and former regulators to ease oversight and permit its predatory practices These range from as the intercept and type investigations have previously reported High interest lending like best egg to legitimately novel efforts at least in our lifetimes to privatize and Surveyor the basic operations of the monetary system responding to fine tech will be a key regulatory challenge for the biden administration But it enters this fight with one hand already tied behind their backs American financial law vastly predates the digital era and is often ill-suited to describing online financial activity And plenty of fine tech firms design themselves to deliberately evade falling under any legal Classifications and regulations that follow them now the conclusion as bernie sanders concisely puts it Is that the business model of wall street is fraud? That's exactly what this is. That's what we're seeing here um now of course We have to rein these companies in but the article goes into great detail and i'll link to it down below about how biden's administration has a lot of conflicts of interest And why it's not going to be likely that the folks who are benefiting From these companies are going to want to rein them in and when it comes to the treasury secretary Janet Yellen actually took eight hundred thousand dollars more than eight hundred thousand dollars in speaking fees From citadel and that's according to slate. So the question is why were these individuals who are overseeing these financial tech firms want to regulate them and rein them in when They're not incentivized to do that. They're incentivized to let them kind of Do what they want to do and regulate themselves Look, it's why nothing really seems to change in this country Because of money in politics And i'm not just talking about the traditional legalized bribes of campaign contributions where these private companies They'll give money to politicians and then those politicians will in turn Represent them past policies that they want Like it goes deeper than that the corruption is rampant where folks who are likely to get jobs based on You know their previous positions They will be buttered up by these companies I mean hillary clinton before she ran for president got tons of money in speaking fees as soon as obama got out He got money from speaking fees as a way to I guess kind of like pay him back For not regulating them as hard as he should have so, you know, it's a revolving door. It's Corruption, it's legalized bribery. I mean this really is the intersection of everything that is wrong With our system and why we never see changes Why when it comes to policy outcomes? Average citizens have a statistically insignificant impact on what actually gets passed Whereas special interests they actually do dictate what policies pass out of congress. Like it's It's a rigged system Like it's rigged against you It's rigged against us from a policy perspective and really what this does is it lifts that veil Normal americans can finally see because of this story that the system isn't working for you And that's the beauty of this story. This is basically occupy 2.0 because the little guy won And they didn't just win they got the entire system to expose itself and that is a beautiful thing And the meltdown that ensued afterwards that will continue to ensue Is something that I am absolutely going to enjoy Because it's about time that these assholes and these elites got to taste of their own medicine Like it's fine for them to have the system rigged in their favor But the minute things don't go their way Well We saw what happens They're so brazen Once again republicans have proven why nobody in the country should be taking them seriously And more importantly why they should be sidelined from any and all future negotiations related to the stimulus package because They are trying to get biden to agree to their water down version of stimulus relief When they have no leverage, but their pitch to joe biden is is laughable what they've come up with So 10 GOP senators have basically said this to joe biden. I'm paraphrasing Hey, we know that you uh, you know, you're trying to Promote this idea that you want to unify the country We hear democrats talking about abolishing the filibuster and passing policies using budget reconciliation We'll make it easier for you. You don't have to do any of that We'll give you the 10 votes that you need no questions asked All you have to do is basically everything that we want you to do Take your 1.9 trillion dollar package that you already admit is insufficient and make it completely inadequate to the point where it doesn't do anything That's that's basically the pitch like of course I'm being less charitable, but you have these 10 so-called moderate senators who actually think They have the leverage To pull this off Now I know that democrats usually get ruled by republicans in congress, but this is so laughable So painfully idiotic that I can't see how anyone goes for it So they're saying they're going to give joe biden the 10 votes that he wants if he agrees to these conditions This is according to jeff stein of the washington post So when it comes to his plan if he cuts three months of unemployment assurance knocking it down by a hundred dollars a week Uh cuts 350 billion dollars in aid for states and cities cuts the monthly child benefit removes the 15 dollar an hour minimum wage increase reduces checks from $1400 to $1,000 cuts parts of school funding Then they'll be more inclined to go along with it Additionally, they want to further means test the already means tested survival checks So that way instead of making the threshold, you know, it means tested above $75,000 per year in income They want to means tested above $40,000 like that's that's insane Also, they want no money to assist renters in need who face eviction if they have lost their jobs It's almost like they're trolling in a way like this. This is that laughable How about this if i'm joe biden if i'm the democratic party i'm telling them We're just going to go ahead and pass this stimulus package without you and then you get to explain to your constituents why you denied them relief Why we voted to give them money, but you said no, I don't want to give my constituents money You have no leverage here. We don't need you. It'd be nice to have you But if you don't get on board with this then fuck off. You're the one who has to explain yourself We'll do this without you Now the question is whether or not democrats will actually, uh Allow this to happen Joe biden is uh holding a meeting with these 10 senate republicans, which I think is not even Something he should be doing It doesn't necessarily seem like he's willing to budge at least according to his press secretary because he already knows That the 1.9 trillion dollar proposal isn't enough So he doesn't necessarily seem To want to like go even smaller when the idea is maybe we should even be going bigger But the fact that he's meeting with them and even humoring them. I think is too much Thankfully though the congressional democratic party leadership doesn't seem to even want to waste their time entertaining this stupidity Pelosi's office actually announced a joint budget resolution that lets them pass the plan using budget reconciliation And democratic party members of congress in general Seems to be just dismissing it outright according to jeff stein of the washington post So I mean we'll just have to wait and see when you get a proposal like this that is so unreasonable to even entertain it Is a joke. I mean imagine if when the republican party was considering their tax cut plan for the rich And democrats said listen the only way we'd go along with this is if you put medicare for all in your plan like that's the level of Unreasonableness here. They'd say well, why do we need to put medicare for all in this? We don't support medicare for all and we don't need democratic party votes to get this passed Like it's the same thing like they want you to take this bill Water it down to the point where it's not even the same bill And make it effectively meaningless also They comply with you No, it doesn't work like that Okay, if there is no bipartisanship, it's because of you not because of democrats Do you understand and democrats the problem is that? They need to be disciplined They're never disciplined in their messaging and they always allow republicans to monopolize discourse in this country They need to actually hold their ground and say look we reached out to republicans We tried to let them get some input here But all they wanted to do was further watered down for their means test what was already not enough So we had no choice we had to go without them and we gave everyone in this country More economic relief when they you know watered it down I mean what it seems like they're basically trying to do is force Joe Biden's hand getting him to prove That he was serious about unity and if he slaps this down Then I guess he wasn't serious about unity in their eyes, but I mean Okay, if you make it seem like he's going back on that promise to unify the country You're simultaneously forcing him to go back on other promises like he already promised $2,000 jacks And it's down to 1400 and you're saying no further watered down that promise which was already watered down effectively cut the 2000 check promise in half and You're you're using this to convince him. It just it doesn't make sense like trying to make sense of this Is unnecessary because it doesn't make sense It's unreasonable. They're clowns and nobody should be taking them seriously if I'm democrats I'm sidelining them and we don't ever meet them Halfway because they would never do that if they want to actually help the american people We'll welcome them. We'll welcome their input But they're very deliberately slapping down Something that isn't even sufficient when we're in a crisis in america So we don't get blamed for that they get blamed for that and if democrats somehow end up letting them You know capture the narrative here then that's on them. That's their own stupidity If they get rolled that's on them because you have all the leverage in the world right now They should be laughed out of the room. That should be the response. Joe Biden shouldn't even be humoring them with the meeting I think that's that's stupid, right? But he wants to at least put up this facade That there's going to be unity But there's no unity because you have a party that's completely captured by extremists so Do what you need to do Pass relief and then brag about it and claim that you did it without republicans. That's that's how you own them Actually go bigger Don't go smaller. You already watered it down. You don't need to water it down further to appease these dipshits like susan collins Bernie sanders is now the senate budget committee chairman and he is already flexing his muscles and this is just truly It's awesome to see it gives me at least some hope a little bit not like a lot But some hope so as warren gunnels tweets out today budget committee chair sanders introduced the 1.9 trillion dollar budget resolution Allowing the senate to boost direct payments to $2,000 provide $400 a week to the unemployed Raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour prevent mass layoffs and more and the motion to proceed past 50 to 49 Let's go and I love this because you know Democrats they were already too kind to republicans like they tried to reach out Tried to give them some input and they already proved within a matter of weeks They're clowns. They're not serious actors like the The counter offered that the 10 moderate republicans proposed to biden's 1.9 trillion dollar stimulus package It should get them laughed out of the room like they're not serious about actually delivering to the american people at a time of crisis So sidelined them pushed them out of the way you gave them a chance Now it's time to pass what the american people needs using reconciliation now on the floor bernie sanders responded to um Attacks that republicans have lobbed against him because he is pushing for budget reconciliation to make change And uh, what he said here was just it was perfect. Now, mr. President. I have heard from some of my republican colleagues Who tell us that well this reconciliation? Concept that's a radical idea. Why are you using? reconciliation And they are telling us that it is absolutely imperative That we go forward in a bipartisan way And require 60 votes for passage But I must say that when republicans used this same reconciliation process Mr. President, I didn't hear much about bipartisanship at that point in fact republicans used the reconciliation process To provide trillions of dollars in tax breaks To the top one percent and large profitable corporations By a simple majority vote The only people who voted for that bill were republicans no bipartisanship in that bill My republican colleagues used reconciliation To open up the arctic national wildlife refuge For the drilling of oil Once again by a simple majority Only people who supported that Were republicans not one democrat As we all remember painfully My republican colleagues used the reconciliation process To try to repeal the affordable care act and throw up to 32 million americans Off of the health care they currently have And as you'll recall mr. President That was a 100 partisan vote Which fortunately lost By one vote further Weeks weeks before a presidential election last election My republican colleagues Pushed through their nominee For the supreme court With 50 votes A few weeks before the election Not one democrat supported That nominee totally partisan vote Well as the incoming chair of the senate budget committee This is what i believe If republicans can use reconciliation To help the wealthy and the powerful And pass legislation Strongly opposed By the american people We can and must use reconciliation To help americans recover From the worst economic and public health crisis In the modern history of our country This is why i love bernie sanders This is why i love bernie sanders because he's calling out the gop's hypocrisy A blatant double standard Why is it acceptable to use budget reconciliation if we're delivering tax cuts to the rich? Or if we are confirming a supreme court nominee that corporate america really really wants on that court But the minute we try to actually push through things that help the american people especially at a time of crisis Well all of a sudden we're questioning. Where's the bipartisanship? Why can't we work together? Why can't we hold hands and sing kubayah after we've been obstructing everything that democrats have tried to do for the last I don't know 10 15 years I mean republicans are they're not serious They're a party that has been hijacked by not only extremists But private interests Corporate america and it's not like the democratic party isn't also, you know, um controlled by big business But the republican party they're not even trying to pretend to represent people they won't even do the bare minimum and like If you want people to spend money have purchasing purchasing power to buy the things that capitalists produce then you can't like Bleed them dry. You can't Only give them crumbs and expect the wheels of capitalism to keep on turning. That's just not the way that it works So democrats at least Being capitalists that they are acknowledge that if we don't have money To buy all of the goods and things that capitalists make or their workers make to be more specific Then the system isn't going to work. But republicans have become ideologues They are only about delivering to corporate america And if they can't actually deliver anything to corporate america, if it's just about helping out normal americans Then they're they're not in favor of it unless there's something for their corporate donors It's why they agreed to the carers act only because There was a bailout for large multinational corporations So it's just they're so transparent and bernie sanders is basically stating the obvious But it doesn't get set enough in dc So I love what he said there and i'm looking forward to seeing the way that he um Governs as the uh chair of the senate budget committee love it When donald trump withdrew from the jcpoa otherwise known as the iran nuclear agreement You know and started saber rattling against iran and almost bombed them according to multiple reports I thought there's no way that the next administration if it is democratic is going to be able To get us back into this peace agreement with iran because that's effectively what the jcpoa was It was a peace agreement iran agrees to not enrich uranium to a certain extent And as a result, there's no justification for an invasion or regime change when we get you know A bloodthirsty administration that wants to actually do regime change and you know We came close during the trump years with john bolton in his ear But I was pleasantly surprised to learn that iran was actually willing to come to the table and the president of iran Actually had called on the incoming biden administration to re-enter the agreement So I thought wow, maybe this is possible. Maybe this can work Except fast forward to today and biden's administration is dragging its feet when it comes to renegotiation Of this agreement and I don't know if joe biden is going back on his campaign promise to re-enter the iran nuclear agreement Or if there's a saboteur in the ranks of the biden administration who is trying to make peace less possible I'm talking about anthony blinkin and let me just say before we get into the specifics here that If the biden administration fucks this up Then the next republican administration is definitely Not going to re-enter this peace agreement They're definitely going to continue to escalate and ramp up the tensions as trump did So we have one chance We can't mess this up But they're already bungling it and we got signs that this would be the case when secretary of state anthony blinkin emphasized the importance Of consulting with israel before re-entering the iran nuclear agreement Um, we don't have to consult with another country about our relationship with a different country that doesn't involve them Especially when that government who we are supposedly going to be consulting with is hell bent on Escalation and regime change we then learned that secretary blinkin was fear mongering about iran suggesting that they could Be weeks away from having material needed to build a nuclear bomb And now newsweek is reporting that biden's administration has dodged an offer from iran to discuss their re-entry into the deal Now we will listen to the new secretary of state struggle to articulate a good reason why We're not actually Talking with iran why we're giving them the cold shoulder when they're literally reaching out to pursue peace um With regard to iran President biden has been very clear in saying that uh, if iran comes back into Full compliance with its obligations under the jcpoa The united states would do the same thing And then we would use that As a platform to build with our allies and partners What we called a longer and stronger agreement and to deal with a number of other issues That are deeply problematic In the relationship with iran But we are a long ways From that point iran is out of compliance on a number of fronts And it would take some time should it make the decision to do so for it to come back into compliance And time for us then to assess Whether it was meeting its obligations, so we're not We're not there yet To say the least And then with regard to How we would engage this issue if Iran decides to come back into compliance I can tell you that we will we will build a a strong team of experts And we will bring to bear different perspectives On the issue We this This is something I would say this across the board by the way One of the things that I feel very strongly about Is that in any of the issues we're engaged on in any of the issues that we're tackling And that our foreign policy has to confront That we are constantly questioning our own assumptions and premises That we we do not engage in in groupthink That there is as much Self-criticism and self-reflection as we get from appropriately The outside whether it's from from you or whether it's from people who disagree What the policies we're pursuing so I think you can expect To see that as we move forward both with regard potentially to Iran And for that matter to just about any other issue we we tackle. Thank you so To put it more simply he's saying that we're not going to talk with Iran without preconditions We will renegotiate the terms of the jcpoa if and only if They are within compliance of said agreement that we pulled out from What We're the ones who withdrew unilaterally from that agreement. We're the ones who broke the deal We're the ones who weren't compliant with the deal So isn't that a little bit unreasonable like imagine if Iran said, you know what we're not talking after you violated the terms of this agreement unless You get rid of all the sanctions We're not going to talk with you unless there are preconditions. Imagine if they said that we would be outraged by it the u.s. government more specifically would be outraged and they think You know, they would think how dare you Put these conditions on this negotiations like we're the united states. How dare you do that But Iran is being pretty reasonable here. They're saying. Hey, here's an olive branch Do you want to get back into this agreement? Which is mutually beneficial? Or do you not and biden's administration at least for now Is saying you need to do this for me first Do you want peace or not? Because if you fuck this up if you don't renegotiate this deal reenter the jcpoa, guess what happens A bloodthirsty neocon is going to get power and actually do what trump was too afraid to do Bomb Iran start a war with Iran I mean, this is part of biden's campaign promise So I don't know if anthony blinkin is at odds with joe biden and is undermining him, but either way This is absolutely despicable Talk to them pursue peace even if you fail the mere fact that you're pursuing peace that in and of itself Makes you worthy of applause Donald trump was in over his head when it came to negotiations with north korea I don't think he had the first clue about korean politics I don't think he knew what would actually facilitate long lasting peace between the north and south of korea And you know north korean the united states, but the mere fact that he was talking to them and not trying to you know threaten them every other day um That that was preferable. That's better like we should be pursuing peace we should be Trying to write the wrongs of the past four years as you claim you wanted to do joe biden Donald trump withdrew and you disagreed with that So now why are you doing donald trump's bidding by not talking to iran to form this peace agreement? We violated the deal we reimposed sanctions After we pledged to not do that because that was the terms of the deal So if you can acknowledge that they're not in compliance anymore that acknowledge that we're also not in compliance I mean look this is all early discussions. Maybe they're just posturing either way It's deeply infuriating Because I did not even expect iran To want to work with the us again because it's a hard sell It's a really hard sell like the hardliners in iran They already were against the jcpoa in the first place And so you're making it a lot more difficult for the moderates To sell this to everyone else in the country like the iranian people Are much more moderate than the government itself But the moderates within government at iran like you're making their job a lot more difficult You're making this a harder sell and if you genuinely want peace If you want to like put back together the pieces of obama's legacy that trump destroyed This is easy. This is easy This is a simple thing you can do that the left would be happy with and that would actually be meaningful But they're botching it and now that i'm shitting on joe biden I should also take the time to um call out the fact that his administration is considering Rom immanuel to be the ambassador to china or japan And I just don't understand why they can't let this guy go. He covered up the murder of laquan mcdonald He's a racist. Why do you have to give him some job like I don't understand The relationship here why you're so attached to him. So look, I'll leave that there I don't know why democrats have such a heart on for um For rom immanuel and I don't know why this is so difficult for joe biden's administration Trump undid your legacy. Do you want to repair what was broken? Or do you want to like make it easier for some neocon who comes to power to invade iran? I don't know but either way. I don't like it. I don't like what I'm seeing. This is bad And if it doesn't change Then we actually need to form An anti-war movement in the country. I mean we need that regardless But the reason why both parties are so hawkish is because there's zero pressure I mean part of it is capitalist forces, all right as well Obviously, you know the defense industry the military industrial complex But we have to have some sort of leverage and unless there's like a real movement To stop wars in this country like this is going to be the status quo. It's not going to change regardless if you elect democrats or republicans So, you know, if he doesn't actually move towards peace, it's early But if he doesn't act and if we continue to see what looks to be sabotaged by secretary blinkin Then there needs to be pressure on biden's administration. Absolutely without question War with the wrong is is not even on the table at all. It should never be Joe biden hasn't been president for very long But yet since he's been inaugurated already almost 300 individuals have been deported under his watch Now you might ask yourself Why is this happening when his administration immediately halted most deportations for at least 100 days? Well, the answer is a trump appointed judge decided to throw a wrench in that plan and at least Blocked it temporarily for 14 days. So this is complicated and even though This kind of gets in the way of joe biden's agenda There are things that he could have done to subvert that judge's ruling because it is temporary And these 300 deportations that have taken place They were unnecessary. He could have stopped them. So I don't know if this is Necessarily due to him being negligent or incompetent, but either way It's something that he needs to stop if he truly does want to right the wrongs of the obama era In terms of the way that they treated immigrants So immediately after joe biden was sworn in the department of homeland security announced that it would halt most deportations of non citizens And also they paused donald trump's cruel remain in mexico policy Which basically forced asylum seekers to stay in mexico while they waited to get a hearing in america However days later after this policy was changed as cbs news reports a trump appointed judge decided to block biden's moratorium on deportations At least temporarily and they explained US district judge drew tipton of the southern district of texas agreed to pause the policy for at least 14 days While he considered a lawsuit followed by the texas republican attorney general Ken paxton who argued in a complaint on friday that the deportation freeze Violated immigration law and a legal agreement the state brokered with the trump administration before mr biden took office the moratorium one of mr Biden's campaign promises shielded most immigrants facing deportation from being removed from the united states As long as they entered the country before november 1st of 2020 It does not apply to those who pose a national security risk or are suspected of terrorism or espionage Immigrants could also agree to voluntarily leave the country on january 8th Ken cuccinelli who was then the second in command at the department of homeland security Signed an agreement committing the department to consult texas and consider its views before changing policies Governing the enforcement of federal immigration law DHS signed similar deals with other states and localities, but legal experts have questioned whether they are legally enforceable So basically the ghouls in trump's administration Anticipated that this change would be coming and they put in place a last-minute policy That required the federal government to consult with states Before implementing any new changes and this was basically a brazen attempt to stop or at a minimum delay The progress that joe bided wanted to make when it comes to Deportations they knew he would be halting deportations for 100 days And um, they are now making this argument To stop it texas is saying well, you know since the department of homeland security didn't consult with us Or at least give us a forewarning that they'd be making this policy change looks like it's invalid It looks like we can still continue to deport people Now, um, this is definitely disgusting. It's it's cynical. This is taking place during a pandemic You are putting these lives at risk But there is a way that joe biden could have subverted this obstacle So if all of the deportations that were already scheduled went ahead as planned because of this judge's ruling All joe biden's administration needed to do was simply reschedule these deportations at least delay them until after we get You know a final ruling from the courts until this is litigated And um, you could have stopped these 300 people from being uh deported But that's not what happened So as ap reports a federal judge last week ordered the biden administration not to enforce a 100-day moratorium on deportations But the ruling did not require the government to schedule them in recent days US immigration and customs enforcement has deported immigrants to at least three countries 15 people to jamaica on thursday and 269 people to guatemala and honduras on friday more deportation flights were scheduled monday Two legal experts say that regardless of the judge's order on the deportation moratorium ice could release immigrants with deportation orders keep people detained or otherwise delay the deportation process Scheduling deportations is still a matter of discretion for the agency said steve yell lower an immigration law professor at cornell university So even though a trump appointed judge stopped joe biden's moratorium on deportations from going into effect And even though trump's administration made last minute changes to kind of at least delay progress from taking place anything that joe biden wanted to um put in place You know, this was avoidable joe biden could have easily just rescheduled these deportations So it's uh deeply frustrating that this was not the case It is tragic that folks are being deported during a pandemic and one of the individuals Who was deported was actually a witness to murder So it might have been useful to have a witness to murder remain in the united states while that case was uh Was litigated. It's just it's deeply sad. It's deeply sad I think that this really demonstrates the necessity of immediate comprehensive immigration reform And we don't just need like to put these folks on a path to citizenship They're paying their taxes. They're living here. Their children go to our schools Make them citizens There's no need to prolong their pain and delay it. They should be given immediate citizenship So I absolutely blame joe biden for this because even though donald trump's administration They did this this is like the lasting legacy of trump's ruthlessness when it comes to immigration joe biden's administration should at least be savvy enough and competent enough To stop anything that they should have anticipated legally, you know any Obstacle that you know, these republican governors would have put up They should have anticipated that and had a plan to respond to them But they didn't now I do have to give joe biden credit where it's due He did sign executive orders that are good when it comes to the issue of immigration First of all, he created a task force that aims to reunite separated families Also, uh, these executive orders give aid to central american governments in an attempt to address the root causes of immigration And I actually do think this is a really good start considering the us's role in destabilizing this region in the first place You know, you need something more comprehensive But I think this is a really good first step in the right direction Now finally his executive orders will review the naturalization process Make it more streamlined get rid of these draconian rules put in place by the trump administration that make it more difficult for non-citizens To secure legal status if they've received public assistance I mean, this is all a really good step in the right direction But all of this amounts to a piecemeal approach I really genuinely hope that joe biden fulfills his promise of immigration reform and in the event he does Pursue immigration reform as he promised he would I hope that it doesn't get watered down Like it's already not strong enough what he's proposing like if we're talking about a path to citizenship that lasts for eight years I mean, you're giving yourself enough time to have a xenophobic Administration come in after you and undo the progress that you've made or at least chip away at the progress you're trying to make Make these folk citizens like it's it's not that difficult It's the moral thing to do especially during a pandemic when we don't need people being deported To countries that they're not familiar with that they haven't been to In a very long time especially when they've become a part of american society So, you know overall joe biden gets credit for doing some right things when it comes to executive orders He gets credit for trying to put a moratorium on deportations However, he doesn't get credit for failing to act and protect these immigrants when you know, um They should have anticipated a right wing attack on the progress that he was trying to make so again I hope that he's actually truly trying to right the wrongs of the obama era But um If he's going to do this, he has to be more aggressive You can't just allow these deportations to go on his plan because with the way that our immigration system works It's so draconian and ruthless that it kind of almost operates autonomously So you have to take charge you have to grab a hold of the steering wheel And like drastically shifted in the opposite direction if you genuinely are adamant like that you want this change So we'll see um, I'll give them time because uh, you know that we have to see how this plays out in the courts But overall this is sad like there's no excuse for this many folks being deported during a pandemic none I don't want to tell anyone how to think I hope that if you're watching this program You're not like taking everything that I say is gospel and I hope that you're thinking critically And I hope that you're questioning in fact checking everything that I say But if you are one of the folks who really do philosophy have been influenced over you and your opinion on politics Then you should definitely hate joe mansion. That's the one thing I want you to take away from this podcast The motherfucker is so smug so insufferable and even though him and um kirsten cinema both kind of ideologically align And they're on the far right of the democratic party and they're unilaterally holding up any negotiations with regard to the stimulus The way that he goes about it Makes it that much more insufferable because he doesn't just say I don't agree with this Because i'm conservative He'll try to concern troll and say well, you know, I don't think that we should means test You know this new stimulus package because I want less people to get support I just really look out for the little guy cared that the little guy Is uh is getting support and that we're not helping out people who don't need it like it's It's all insufferable And you can tell that even msnbc Is getting irritated with him and you saw this subtle jab In an interview that he did on morning joe where they juxtapose the republican governor of west virginia And him saying he supports biden's 1.9 trillion dollar stimulus with joe mansion the democratic senator saying Don't really support it like he he claims to support it again. This is why I hate him He's so disingenuous, but then he has reasons x y and z as to why he can't he can't get on board Watch what he has to say here and why he is not going to support the 1.9 trillion dollar stimulus at least as it stands Economy is going to sputter and we've got to get ourselves out of this mess and it's the way we need to go West virginia's republican governor jim justice voicing his strong support for the administration's covet relief bill The state's democratic senator joe mansion believes the stimulus needs to be more targeted and he joins us now from the capital senator mansion Great to have you with us. So You're the man of the hour here Good, what's it? What's it going to be? Is this going to be closer to 2 trillion dollars in this package or is it going to end up being more targeted Making the worst thing we can do is put it put a price tag on it We just to get what the needs of the people are and basically how we keep the economy going How we keep people basically Ready for this economy to come roaring back and they're prepared to be part of it So if it's 1.9 trillion, so be it if it's a little smaller than that And we find the targeted need and you know, that's what we're going to do But I want it to be bipartisan So if they think that they're going to basically we're going to throw all caution to the wind And and just shove it down people's throat. That's not going to happen Chuck Schumer said yesterday on the floor. He said this is going to be a bipartisan process We encourage your bipartisan process. That means democrats and republicans will have amendments We have many many opportunities to make the necessary changes and make your point And that's what it's about the process needs to work He really cares you guys. It's just that he wants this to be targeted He wants to make sure that someone who's making 150 to 200 000 dollars per year don't get this stimulus because that could be taking it away from someone who really needs it Except here's the problem with that theory if you make it universal and you just tax it all later So that way if someone really is making above the income threshold That you're imposing here gets that stimulus when they weren't supposed to will you just get it back from them? Think of it as a temporary tax break like he's making this more complicated if you genuinely cared Uh about the american people then means testing Only slows things down and you concern trolling pretending to care about the working class and them really needing it Like you're not you're not convincing anyone and he's such a fool that he contradicted himself like within seconds So he says uh, look the worst thing we can do is put a price tag on it then seconds later. He says I wanted to be bipartisan Okay, well you have to pick one or the other because republicans are putting a price tag on it They're taking joe biden's 1.9 trillion dollar proposal and they're cutting it by like 75 percent and they're saying this is what we want So you want to make sure that the american people get what they need And if it's going to be 1.9 trillion then so be it But at the same time you want the republicans to get on board But they're saying they're not going to get on board with it. So the question is what are you going to do as a democrat? Are you going to hold everything up for everyone in the country until we get at least one or two republicans on board? Or are you actually going to do what you say you want to do which is help the american people? It's just it's so insufferable He's holding the entire democratic party back even more so than other corporate democrats uh, the good news however about joe manchin Is that he's an idiot and he is very easy to persuade So all you have to do is is exert a minimal amount of public pressure and he will buckle We've seen him buckle on you know the direct cash payments and he's also against the minimum wage He doesn't want it to be 15 dollars an hour. He wants it to be 11 dollars an hour I guarantee that if democrats push him enough and he faces public backlash He'll buckle on that as well because joe joe manchin He doesn't have like an underlying governing philosophy Like he's kind of naive in the sense that as long as republicans and democrats are holding hands and singing kumbaya As long as whatever legislation is passed is like bipartisan right down the middle and that democrats get 50 percent and republicans get 50 percent That's that's all that he cares about because that is the most surest way that the donors who fund both parties are going to be appeased Uh, but he he has no spine. He has no backbone So you can get him to budge kirsten cinnamon on the other hand I don't know because she's a newer member of congress, but we've been dealing with joe manchin joe manchin's bullshit For a really long time and he is easy to manipulate But what I want to do is I want to show you a clip of bernie sanders He was on the view and he was asked his thoughts on bipartisanship and listen to what he says because his reasoning Is very different for bipartisanship and his reasoning as to why this is a necessity Is a lot different than what joe manchin says So bernie um president biden said yesterday. He's open to compromise On some aspects of the nearly two trillion dollar proposal For covid relief and he met with republicans earlier this week to hear them out Um, you've been very clear that your priority is moving this as quickly as possible Through whether republicans are on board or not. I have a question. What's the downside of your proposal? If any Let's say we move it right through without without any republicans involved Is there a downside to that at all? Or should we just do it? Well, joy. Look, I think we all want bipartisanship I hope republicans join us But the most important issue right now is to understand That working families in this country today Are in more economic desperation than they have been since the great depression I don't have to tell you in my own city burlington vermont, which is doing better than many other locations around the country Hundreds of people have lined up in their cars for emergency food delivery help All across the country families are struggling to prevent eviction in the midst of the pandemic People can't afford to go out and find a doctor We have a pandemic today, which is taking some 3000 lives every single day We're not getting the vaccines out as quickly as we can Half of our people are living paycheck to paycheck Millions are working for starvation wages. In other words We face more problems today Than at any time since the great depression and we got to move for working families And we got to move yesterday and I intend to do this as quickly as we can That right there Is what joe mansion would be saying if he actually cared about getting these checks out You see if you if you genuinely cared as much as you say you do that that interview on morning joe Was like more than 10 minutes, I think and the entire time He's trying to emphasize how much he really cares and he wants to help out the american people and save the economy if you actually cared That's what you would be saying what bernie sanders said He listed the specific reasons why we can't wait and even though it would be wonderful to have the republicans on board They're not going to get on board So the question is do we want to actually give the american people relief now? Or do we want to twirl our thumbs waiting for republicans to find a heart and jump on board? That's that's inconceivable. It's not gonna happen So if you actually care about the american people as you say you do joe mansion, which he doesn't There wouldn't be any stipulations. You wouldn't say well, you know I'm only willing to support the $1,400 checks, which they should be 2000 if their means tested further I'm only willing to support the minimum wage if it's you know, uh, $11 an hour I'm only willing to support this 1.9 trillion dollar stimulus package if it has bipartisan support These are all excuses that amount to nothing more than you concern trolling and ultimately getting in the way Of your party delivering relief to the american people. So what's it gonna be? I think we all know where joe mansions loyalties lie He is a republican. He cares about his donors. He couldn't care less about the people in west virginia He's a political opportunist and he loves that he has so much power right now, right? He's kind of like always going to be the swing vote so long as the senate is split 50 50 So he loves that whenever democrats propose something it basically has to go through him Oh, what's that you want to do this incremental reform? Well, it needs to be even more incremental and it needs to be further means tested Or i'm not going to get on board without me. You can't pass it like he loves all this So if he likes this attention, then I think that we should give him exactly what he wants Give him that attention that he's so desperate for Pressure him give him a call Let his office know that he's holding up money that you desperately need There needs to be a massive public pressure campaign and I am confident that Joe mansion is someone who can budge who we can get to budge because again I don't think he's very bright kirsten cinema on the other hand again. I don't know If she is a little bit more stubborn, but joe mansion is stupid enough to where we can actually control him right now He's soaking in the spotlight, but this isn't going to stand for very long He's enjoying basically being the most powerful senator in congress right now But uh That isn't going to last very long because the peasants are going to revolt if you give them nothing but crumbs and they're starving So get it together Shut the fuck up. Stop making up excuses and pass the goddamn steam list joe mansion for fuck's sake So even though some individuals such as mitch mcconnell has uh condemned marjorie taylor green the new QAnon republican within their ranks Without mentioning her, you know other republicans their response after being at least Seemingly embarrassed by her is not kind of just Yeah Because uh republican leader in the house kevin mccarthy has decided to not take action against her When it comes to stripping her of her committee assignments and on top of that reportedly like half of the republican caucus Gave her a standing ovation when she stood up to speak during a closed door meeting So this party has gone full mask off They're literally embracing someone now who liked a facebook post Threatening to kill nancy polosi someone who's openly hostile and vicious and Wants violence against her own colleagues republicans are like sure So if you were wondering like what it would be like if roi moor was elected a pedophile Or if a kkk member or someone who self identifies as a nazi was elected How would the republican party react? And i think that the answer would be meh But behind closed doors, they'd be pretty excited about it. This is the republican party. They are Absolutely insane now. It's funny the way that they're defending themselves Rather than running away from marjorie taylor green, which is kind of what they were doing at first Now they're embracing her and they're using what aboutism to defend themselves So now they're saying okay. Well, we have marjorie taylor green. She might be a little bit out there But what about ilhan omar? So that's what's happening now fox news and republicans are drawing this false equivalency trying to compare A cuban conspiracy theorist who wants other members of congress murdered To a muslim woman who is progressive. Yeah So in an interview with chris haes on msnbc ilhan omar responded to this And what she said was great because not only did she shoot down this bizarre idea that she's comparable to marjorie taylor green in any way But she said what we're all thinking about the republican party. It's nice to hear someone who's elected to congress actually say this Representative of the congresswoman. Did you expect that you would be pulled into this because you have become kind of the A go-to figure in these moments for the republican party Sadly, this is the republican playbook We saw it with donald trump that anytime they are faced with consequences for their actions to undermine our democracy They blame muslims. They blame immigrants. They blame black people. They blame women I just happen to embody all of these identities and I just want to make sure Chris that we are clear on this. This is not about me and it should not be about me This is about a member of the republican kakas who has Repeatedly incited violence and republicans can't just wave a magic wand And attack the black congresswoman Uh, it was notable that um, there's been a fundraising effort using you The fundraising of he complained the democrats are trying to expel me from congress And it was interesting the democrat behind her. Uh, there is you Not, you know speaker Pelosi or house leadership. I think everyone understands what that's about I guess my question is this there's this dynamic that functions now where she will use this attention, right? and and this sort of oppositional to fundraise like Do you think about breaking out of this cycle and how to do it if there's any way out of it? No, I mean the you know the the republicans Truly have lost their way. Um, their party is destroyed Their base now is conspiracy theorists. It's cowards. It's opportunists. It's grifters and sadly They're becoming the loony tunes, you know, these are People who we can't take serious. They're not here to do the people's business. They are here To just be obstructionists and make a mockery Of not just our government, but our country There is um, of course this individual congresswoman who is the subject of of this question today in this house rules committee Attracted attention she ran because of this ad with her with a gun next to you and other democratic lawmakers And you know, it just seems to me that they're and you tweeted about this about feeling Like this sense of threat or menace Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez talked about this. We saw it embodied in january 6th. This is not theoretical But just the degree to which the idea of physical intimidation that the threat of violence of menace of armed people Has entered into the Oxygen the atmosphere of the building and the place you work That should be a question of sort of debating politics Yeah, I mean and so many people have asked, you know, could there be violence could this lead to violence? And you know, they seem to forget that five people have already lost their lives on In the events of january 6th including a capitol police officer Uh hundreds more people could have we currently have members of congress who are moving their offices away Because they fear for their lives You know, alex talked about the trauma that she's living with and has lived with since january 6th I sent a text message To my ex-husband and told him, you know, if I don't make it out, please make sure you tell my children I love them. This is not a joke. This is not a game. These people are threatening To our environment. They are threatening our ability to do our work. They are Really making it hard for people to survive and exist In a free democracy where debate and discourse is supposed to be celebrated Um, we are now living in a situation where every single caucus conversation It's about, you know, where can we find resources for security? How are we supposed to Check if our panic buttons are working You know, can we buddy up and walk the hallways because we are afraid of our own colleagues This is insane. No other work environment that is this toxic Would sustain itself and we can't sustain ourselves as members of congress in this situation I don't envy the position that they're in. I mean the individuals Who relentlessly attack them on social media and you know, call for them to be hung And assassinated those individuals have infiltrated congress. They're now They're colleagues. So how do you how do you deal with that? Like how does that body function? When you have folks in there who literally want to see violence be committed against The opposite party like it's just such a weird Thing to see Now I love that uh, ilhan omar said the republican party, uh, they've lost their way. They're becoming the loony tunes Now she's wrong because the republican party. They never had any sense whatsoever They have always been lost because conservatism is an inherently morally bankrupt ideology But to say that they're becoming loony tunes That's absolutely correct because this isn't just like the party who brazenly looks out for the rich and gives them tax cuts this is the party of absolute psychopaths folks who believe Not just like conspiracy theories that are a little bit kooky But like the most dumbest conspiracy theories not even interesting conspiracy theories literal Q and on conspiracy theories a five-year-old Would probably have more sense than to think well, maybe I shouldn't believe that like one random person on the internet is giving us all this Inside insight to what the trump administration is doing Like the dumbest of the dumb like that's what they've embraced. This is their brand now But guess what? There's a demand for it. Hence why folks like donald trump marjorie taylor green lauren bobert are becoming increasingly popular because there is enough americans who think that way so What's an issue in america that we all have to kind of think about long term is How do we deek program people get them to not believe Outrageously stupid and idiotic conspiracy theories get folks to embrace science And logic and rational thinking a lot of folks operate using emotion and that's true for all human beings But how do we get them? To just have some basic level of common sense once again like i don't know if it's possible So long as the republican party Props up people like marjorie taylor green. I don't know now ilhan omar is correct that you know This is kind of the republican parties go to playbook. They always point to marginalized communities As the scapegoat. It doesn't matter what the situation is. I mean the republican party their entire critique is The issues that you are experiencing as a working class american It's not because of our economic system. It's not because of capitalism. It's not because of our corrupted institutions it's because of These little guys with no money and moat no power You didn't lose your job because of greedy corporations who are outsourcing your job Or who are paying you, you know slave wages you lost your job because an immigrant came in and took your job This is always their go-to It's always so of course it makes sense that they'd replicate that at the congressional level and say well, you know It's not actually marjorie taylor green who's the issue. It's ilhan omar This other member of congress because she looks different. She's brown and she wears a hijab So blame her. That's what they do like uh, this party is the party of white supremacists And i'm not saying that all republicans are racists But if you are racist you're almost certainly going to be a republican And you may even think that they're not racist enough for you Hence why there's this sudden need to create the patriot party because that's what donald trump wants Like he wants this little group of sycophants and cultists who all really believe the same thing And nobody is willing to question their beliefs to like form this political force Because they're a public party even it can't contain the craziness like they're they're trying to they're trying to like Be somewhat respectable, but they can't any longer because it's like the mask has come off fully Now i do have to say that part of the problem is that democrats have enabled this attack on ilhan omar either wittingly Or unwittingly because they never come to her defense when she smeared Like how many times has she been attacked? By republicans who claim that she is pro terrorist or pro 9 11 because they disingenuously Take her out of context take something that she set out of context Where she's basically making a point about how racial profiling is a thing that happens to muslims Because of the 9 11 terrorist attack they take that They clip it out and they say oh well she said because some people did something she's downplaying it She supports terrorism Or if she criticizes israel the government of israel not the israeli people not jewish people But if she criticizes the government of israel who currently is doing a genocide against palestinians doing a modern day apartheid Well, that's anti-semitic And democrats never have her back They target her as well So look, I don't think that we really need to even entertain this equivalence between marjorie taylor green and ilhan omar One of them is completely off her rocker and the other Says things about politics that is politically incorrect She says things about the israeli government and the american government us imperialism That a lot of folks don't want to hear so because she's politically incorrect They'll equate her with someone Who is batshit insane who should probably quite literally be in an insane asylum? And i'm not saying that to you know use crazy as a pejorative i'm saying that because she genuinely needs help She's not mentally fit to be in congress. I think that's that's pretty obvious Hello everyone i'm here with seattle city council member shama sawan representing the third district of the city of seattle She was elected back in 2013 and ever since she was elected as the first socialist in I think over a hundred years to serve on seattle city council There's been constant efforts from capitalist forces big business to take her down But in spite of all of the opposition she's been incredibly successful She led the charge to pass the first in the nation minimum wage of 15 an hour She led the charge to pass the first in the nation ban on chemical weapons Used for crowd control against protesters a lot that we saw during the george floyd protests And she did a lot of other things and now the latest effort after amazon spent 1.5 million to take her down in 2019 and failed at that now the right in the city of seattle seattle's elites are trying to take her down with a recall effort with four charges in particular Here to talk about that is councilwoman shama sawan a councilwoman. Thank you so much for coming on the program Thank you so much for having me mike Your case here is really interesting because you have you have not been deterred You've had nothing but non-stop opposition not just from the right but from the democratic party establishment as well You know the the mayor of seattle jenny durkin is a democrat So you have fought tooth and nail against these attacks And you would think that that would kind of knock somebody off their course But you've been really successful and I think that you you've been one of the most effective members of city council Throughout the country and I think that what happens here is a microcosm of what could happen for the broader national and even international socialist movement So can you talk a little about a bit about the opposition that you faced especially with regard to this latest? Obviously bogus recall effort. It's not the first time as I alluded to I also want to note That you have faced dozens of ethics complaints all of which are bogus you faced defamation lawsuits because you've referred to Killings by police as murder che taylor in particular in seattle So talk about this latest effort to basically Stop you from changing seattle for the better as you correctly said mike ever since we were first elected in 2013 And of course we won the first election in 2015 and our second re-election in 2019 despite The concerted efforts by amazon and big business and I would say also the city's democratic establishment To try and drive socialist out of city hall. They didn't succeed in the effort And now they're trying a do-over of the election result that they did they did not like in 2019 Because there is no reality to the charges that they have leveled against me. And in fact, it's actually concerning especially in the context of heightened Right populism and the far right riots at the capitol building in washington dc The umboldening of a certain current of right wing the death threats against Left elected officials like aoc and ilhan omar and kori bush I've had death threats directed against me recently And the seattle police have done virtually nothing to address those threats to figure out where they're coming from And so the recall effort against jazz is happening in this context where The legitimacy of the capitalist system is at an all-time low young generations are looking for an alternative to this rotten system because Especially the pandemic but in general the system has exposed itself as completely incapable of addressing Even basic needs of humanity look at the crisis with vaccination the pandemic Let alone larger questions of the climate catastrophe for example And so in this context it is important from the ruling class's standpoint. It's important that they try to attack the left, but especially the socialist left and Most importantly their need is to attack any successful examples Where movements have fought back and won I mean, it's bad enough if you have the courage and the audacity to fight back But if you win you should expect that the ruling class the democratic establishment big business the right wing Will come after you and these recall charges are happening in that context And I would say they are really an example of how They what they fear is and what they hate what the ruling class hates is not only The actual victories we have won which is making seattle the first major city to win the $15 minimum wage We just won the historic amazon tax on big businesses to fund social housing and a green new deal We have won a whole series of renters rights that were thought impossible to win before we were we were elected But what they fear most of all is not just these individual victories Which they would like to roll back, of course And we know that they will attempt to roll back many of these if they succeed in the recall effort But what they fear most of all is the example that we have said that it is possible for movements and not just movement but the socialist movement to get organized Win its own office in the midst of political domination by the corporate ruling class Win victories despite the onslaught of their opposition and then spread that example throughout the nation $15 an hour Went nationwide and now the biden administration is being forced to talk about it. That's what they fear the most the example of the emboldened meant of ordinary people of working class people and also the concrete Vision that we have shown that you can fight if you get organized in Democratic movements where rank and file are empowered. That is how we won the tax amazon victory And so it's it's crucial that the ruling class push back against this for for them for for to to defeat the Future efforts of movements and I can say with a lot of confidence that if they succeed in this recall effort against us They will not stop there. They will go after the socialist left and the broader left And that's why everybody all of us have a stake in in Defeating this recall Yeah, and I want to just point everyone to an article that you wrote for jackabin This was published in I think november of last year It's titled democrats and the right are attacking me and left movements everywhere I would highly encourage everyone to read this article because it she really goes through Extensively how they've been attacking her consistently Um, and really with seattle. It's really interesting because this is where amazon is headquartered You have the mayor of seattle. She took $350,000 from amazon. I believe when she was elected in 2017 you see amazon funding To the tune of over a million dollars a campaign against the socialist city council member I mean this entire city has been captured by big business and You have kind of like forced everyone to take their masks off to where even The democratic party establishment in seattle is attacking you and coming after you and the only way that you've really managed To hold that seat and hang on to power is by really utilizing the grassroots And I think that the way that we are successful here and we stop this effort Is by standing in solidarity with you and activating the grassroots. So can you tell us what we can do? If we live in seattle or somewhere else in the country, how do we stop this recall effort? What can we do to help this cause because we want to have that seat remain in your control because you're already doing So much and as you said like the $15 an hour minimum wage that biden's administration is proposing This is kind of being modeled after what you all did in seattle, which They don't they don't want to see this because success it kind of leads to like a domino effect We've seen this time and again We're seeing it with you know marijuana legalization So the last thing they want is for you to make more progress and then pressure other cities and even you know congress to act So how do we stop this? I think you're right About what you said in terms of the domino effect even look at the what happened in the recent election Florida which decisively went for donald trump and that's a dangerous trend These are the same voters some of those same voters who also voted in the $15 minimum wage in that same election What that shows you is how what's at stake for us, you know in defeating this recall but also The larger goal of why there's an urgency to build the left is not only because there is a Real potential with especially the younger generations getting politicized to win real victories like medicare for all And a green new deal although there will be uphill fights, but it also is the florida example also shows that in reality So many millions of working people who might have voted for trump are actually going to be open to a real working class strategy of fight back And it's in the absence of any real left alternative that they end up becoming fodder for donald trump's reactionary ideology and so the best way really of stemming the increasing tide of right populism is for us to urgently build a strong left and a socialist left nationally and Defeating the recall attempt here is part of that national effort And so regardless of where you live, whether it's in seattle or somewhere outside seattle Please go to shama solidarity dot org. That's my first name ks. H. A. M. A Solidarity dot org to get more information about our campaign or as you said grass roots campaign to defeat this recall attempt And if you live in seattle We absolutely want your help more directly right now because of the lockdown with phone banking and reaching people in a socially distanced way, but later we will need Door knocking and face-to-face effort again socially distanced way to keep make sure we're We're keeping everyone safe But nationally if you're not in seattle, then we do need your efforts with fundraising So please send us your individual donations But also if you're able to host a fundraiser where you are Please contact our campaign and we will absolutely help you set it up And we'll have all of the links to that down in the description box down below as well as on the screen as well and and also I would say Please reach out to Left leaders labor leaders social movement leaders in your area and urge them to publicly endorse our solidarity campaign Because it's that kind of public solidarity that we are going to need to help Ordinary people in our district who are ultimately going to be voting on this recall For them to understand that the left is united on this and that an attack Again chamasawan is not an attack against her personally But an attack on the left overall an attack on working people and that if the recall goes ahead It will be a setback for all of us. And so I'm really happy that important Leaders and people who have sacrificed themselves for decades like norm chomsky Have endorsed our campaign labor leaders like sarah nelson have endorsed our campaign DSA elected leaders like julia salazar in new york Mike connelly and boston and byron sick cholo pez and rosanna rodriguez in chicago who are chicago elected alderman They've all publicly pledged their support for our campaign. We need that kind of support from leaders nationwide Yeah, this is what solidarity looks like I think that if you have Members of congress even with really large platforms such as members of the squad representative alexandria kaiser quartets if she were to come out and Use this platform to draw attention to this it really could make wonders In terms of change. So this is really what solidarity is all about I wanted to pick your brain for a little bit because you've been so successful And I kind of saw your strategy as a mini version of the strategy that bernie sanders was running on like he always Stated that if he were to be elected president Unfortunately that didn't happen But he would be the organizer in chief and he'd take the grassroots movement to the white house And that's basically what you've done at the city council level So I think that you being as effective as you have been you have a lot of insight into strategy So I wanted to ask you from an individual standpoint as you know, just people who are consumers of political news what we do To affect change should we sign up for organizations? Should we work for campaigns? And then I also want to pivot to at the congressional level because lately there's been a lot of talk about force the vote and members of the squad potentially withholding votes to To basically force a vote on medicare for all And this is over but I still think that it's an important conversation to have because We're all trying to figure out what the correct strategy is going forward and how we actually can affect change And you being able to affect change using the grassroots to kind of feel you I think you have a lot of insight here. So can you kind of speak to that? Yes, I think that's a key question that people have to grapple with How is it that we were able to win these victories and is it true that you can only do this locally? You can't do this nationally. I think I would first of all reject that false dichotomy I think it's a question of strategy no matter whether you're talking about local Movements and local demands or nationally issues like medicare for all like a green new deal and ending fossil fuel use nationwide I think that we are at it. We are at a time when When a lot of Democrats also Use similar sounding movement language where they will also say i'm part of a movement They will occasionally also maybe show up at strike picket lines And I think we have to understand that there is a fundamental difference between What the democratic party offers and what we have accomplished in seattle as a socialist alternative elected office Where as you were saying we we have specifically used a movement building approach for our office And that means a very specific thing and I really agree that bernie sanders would would have been You know it was that that is where people wanted to go And the fact that the democratic establishment fought him to the nail shows which side they are on really because he would have defeated Donald trump and Not only that he would have gone far far far the more by saying you know by as he said he would be an organizer in chief but what we have done here is Not just use the movement language in order to co-opt it and to Sort of deceptively use the grassroots in order to carry on the status quo of corporate politics While uttering some kind and compassionate words what we have done is in a concrete way Used our office to build social movements to build larger movements alongside rank and file labor non unionized workers socialist and community members And and that also goes into the question of force the vote and I'll come that come to that in a second But I just wanted to give a couple of concrete examples of what I mean when I say genuinely building movements So when I was first elected in 2013 and I took office in 2014 The democrats on the city council and and we should keep in mind not just the mayor of seattle There's democrat all the other eight council members are part of the democratic establishment I'm the lone socialist and so when I was elected the democrats on the city council made it very clear That in private conversations and also with their public statements often That we were not going to win the $15 minimum wage Which was the main demand that we ran our campaign on and that city hall ran on their terms And yet six months later we had won $15 an hour and those same council members had been forced to vote Yes, and big business that had fought fiercely against the $15 minimum wage were forced to back down Or at least on that demand and the way we did that was soon after I was elected I Myself and socialist alternative our organization many left labor unions together We launched the 15 now grassroots movement now It was not a coincidence that we won 15 we established 15 now and that we won $15 minimum wage 15 now and socialist alternative And rank and file left labor Organizers worth a backbone of winning $15 an hour. And so what we did through the 15 now movement was we launched Action conferences citywide. We launched neighborhood action groups We activated ordinary people to come and fight for this explaining to them Why it is important that their involvement mattered and that it was not going to it was not going to be possible for Me alone to fight on this and win this that my real strength came from ordinary people marching on the streets In the 15 now rallies, but also coming to city hall bringing this was pre covid remember so, you know, people could actually come and Organize inside city hall and so we really completely changed the dynamic in city hall It used to be this ivory tower where pro big business Council members would sit and have polite conversations without any workers And not in the interest of workers. We completely upended this kind of pro big business Ivory tower and we brought the people's voice into city hall It was the similar way in which we won all the renters rights We have won and also the amazon tax that we won last year I mean again It was no coincidence that we won the amazon tax in the take of the black lives matter movement last year because it was that movement that really Put pressure on the democratic establishment and they had to make all kinds of promises which they have since Walked back But on the amazon tax they were forced to Actually pass a city council amazon tax because a specific tactic that we used in our tax amazon movement Was to have the threat of a ballot initiative But not just a ballot initiative in name But a viable threat of a ballot initiative and we did that By collecting 30 000 signatures on the tax amazon ballot initiative 20 000 of which were collected at directly at the george white protest at the rate of a thousand a day That gives you the tremendous support we had in the grass suits Especially among black and brown working people for this kind of tax Basically the idea that all these big businesses that are profited from this city's prosperity At the expense of workers need to pay at least a minimum tax in order for us to be able to afford Social housing and green new deal programs And I will mention that we used the same strategy in tax amazon movement that we did in 15 now Which is we launched a grassroots movement that was genuinely democratically organized We had action conferences each of which was attended by hundreds of community members labor union members non unionized workers and even progressive small business owners faith leaders And we debated all the important points of the movement in those action conferences openly and all members of the action conferences They voted on all those important points When was the last time the democratic party establishment invited you or me to a grassroots meeting where we got to vote on the things that affected us And so that is that example of a democratically organized movement Where even the informally appointed movement leaders were held accountable to the rank and file of the movement That's what's important. So I think that shows how concretely this is different From the movement type language that many now progressive democrats have started to use And I think the challenge really should be that it's not enough to say you are on the side of movements What are you actually doing to build those movements and on top of that? I think this Is also requires and this is how we are also fundamentally different than the democratic party is that We use our position not to you know on the one hand say we are on the side of working people then on the other hand be Giving a word to the establishment for all their betrayals. No, we don't do that We speak we use our office to speak openly about the betrayals that they carry out and force them We put pressure on them to then vote the right way because then when we build that movement using our seat It extracts a political price from them for voting the wrong way by betraying working people and I think that connects to the question on force the vote because I don't contrary to how it was presented. I don't think that the reluctance and ultimately Opposition to that kind of tactic where you know hold the democratic establishment including Nancy Pelosi Oh publicly accountable on a medicare for all I don't think that the disagreement from the squad and some of the dsa leaders that it was a disagreement on individual tactics Now, obviously debates on tactics are completely fair and necessary on the left. Absolutely. We should be doing that But I don't think this was based on a tactical disagreement. I think this was based on a fundamental Disagreement of then what we believe is a fundamental need which is to have head-on combat And bold challenge to the democratic establishment because we feel that this conflict is completely unavoidable if we hope to win Any kind of reforms like medicare for all let alone deeper change and I'll mention, you know, it's not as if Congress members like aOC don't understand what we're talking about I mean when she was asked why why vote for the trump impeachment? If everybody is on your side already what she said and I agree with her She said sometimes these votes create real political pressure that forces developments Sometimes we vote for the historical record to let future generations know we did everything we could I agree with every word of that. But what's missing here is On the on the same congress members part the willingness to direct that same challenge To the edifice of the democratic establishment and corporate stalwarts like nancy policy and I think that's where the real challenge lies we don't have to Really the test is not whether they are against donald trump They're obviously against donald trump and we all should be and we should be building the left to counter the rise of the right Wing and right populism But the only way we will be able to do that is if we also put our elective leaders to the Additional test, which is the key test is are you willing to take on the conflict with the democratic establishment? Yeah, I think you're really speaking to one of the main grievances that a lot on the left have With members of the squad. Um, and the way that I kind of gauge How to support someone running for congress because I bring out a lot of people running for congress is I look at their platform and if they check all the boxes they support medicare for all green new deal You know a decriminalizing drugs sex work all that then I think okay This is great, but I think that all of this event The event's leading up to force the vote and also before that as well It kind of led a lot on the left to reevaluate What we look for in a leader and it does require more than just being correct on the policies It really does require you to fundamentally challenge leadership and that's one thing that's lacking. I don't know Like I don't necessarily believe that this is a character flaw with members of the squad What I think is lacking and you can kind of like um help me out with this In your take is I think that what's lacking is that there is this Disconnect between members of congress and the grassroots and you know after you use the grassroots to get you elected You fundraise, you know using small dollar donations Once you get to congress the movement building is over Like it seems as if like the movement has accomplished its goal We got this individual who agrees with us elected, but then that's it And I think that what you really uh demonstrate is that you have to keep building the movement like getting to congress And using the grassroots. That's really only step one That's just the very beginning because if you don't keep that movement activated and grow it Then the amount of power that you have as a member of congress will be diminished Especially when you're facing, you know, these democratic party leaders who have a lot of institutional power Who have the media on their side and capitalist forces on their side So is that kind of like do you think that that describes the main issue because I would totally agree that My main criticism is that I want to see members of the squad really take on Democratic party leadership And it's a little bit frustrating because the only members of congress that actually do challenge leadership seem to be the more conservative democrats Um, and usually they don't they don't get marginalized in the way that we fear the left would So do you think like if you could give any advice to members of the squad? Given your experience, what do you think they would need to do to actually get us medicare for all like are they being Too savvy trying to play 8d chess with leadership and you know butter up leadership and get them to not hate them Like what do you think they need to do because I think this is really important because The ultimate goal the reason why we're putting folks in congress is to actually get change So what would be the main thing that you would change? Or the main piece of advice that you give to aoc quarry bush and other members of the squad I think it's first of all, I think it's Crucial that we are living in a time when in order to be In order to have Any kind of progressive credentials The times have changed enough and consciousness has advanced enough that Even democrats are having to check as you said check all the boxes and now the democratic party has genuine elected representatives who consider themselves left or socialist and so I don't I don't question the Genuineness of the intent of many of these congress members who have been elected who are now called a squad. I think it was Really a positive step forward that so many of them have gotten elected Through not taking any corporate money, you know that that really The campaign especially of bernie sanders in 2016 really set this, you know It sort of set the watermark of what what actually constitutes even a basic idea of who's progressive Let alone who's on the left and so it is it is actually a step forward for our movements That it has put that that much pressure on politics in the united states that now Having to take only grassroots donations having to say publicly that I support medicare for all I support the green new deal is a sort of a test for Elected officials to get the support of the younger generation and of the left But I think what it shows also is that you cannot just stop there You also have as you said very it was spot on what you said, which is that As long as you have elected representatives, however genuine let's not question their intentions as long as you have elected representatives who believe That once they enter office, they have to limit themselves to whatever is possible While not making the democratic establishment angry at them That is a dead end as long as you have elected representatives who think that that is the way to go It doesn't matter how well intentioned they are. So I don't think we should be having a debate on whether or not AOC is well intention I truly believe she is well intentioned as you said earlier Mike. This is a question of strategy for the left So let's uh, let's not make this about You know, I don't think the left should be engaging in debate about whether or not Uh, she is well intentioned the question is is she willing to do what it will take to win medicare for all? And that's why as I said Earlier the question is not to hurt the question is to ordinary people What are how are we going to get organized in order to make sure that those elected officials who run as progressives Then go into office and don't think that this is about them Trying to curry favor with Nancy Pelosi or any even the middle layer of the democratic establishment And I think the other thing that you said actually is quite perceptive where you said that it seems to you That mostly the challenge that Nancy Pelosi gets such as it is Comes from more conservative members of the democratic party not from the left of the democratic party And how they seem to don't get marginalized Well, the reason the conservatives don't get marginalized is because They have the entire capitalist ruling class on their side. They are speaking for wall street Yes, they don't get marginalized and they are both precisely because they have the entire might Of the billionaire class and the multimillionaires and the millionaires and also of the right wing on their side So that poses a concrete question What are we our elected officials going to have on your side? And that's the question that we have answered so successfully in seattle where we went in crystal clear with zero illusions that somehow I myself with just my personal qualities and My determination and my courage and my self-sacrifice. I am going to win over the democratic establishment No, I mean, obviously personal characteristics are truly important. I won't I won't minimize them but The most important thing that's different about us compared to the squad for example Is that we understood from day one that The the other politicians, you know, the democratic party politicians on the city council Have big business and the entire might of the ruling class on the other side Which means the only way we will be able to change this Completely ruthless status quo of balance of forces is we have to have forces on our side And where do those forces come from the actual movement ordinary people on the ground And so the only way we will win medicare for all for example Is if we have a similar strategy at the national level that we had in seattle to win $15 in our Amazon tax and all the renters rights victories we have won where we understood that our role Our entire role is to unambiguously and unabashedly build the strength of movements And that in that includes calling out democrats when they betray. So in other words, uh Voting for Nancy Pelosi is a non-starter the left in congress Especially now because numerically they hold the balance of vote for them They should not be voting for Nancy Pelosi. They should be actually fighting building a real fight back against the democratic establishment But the only way they will be able to do it and not get marginalized is if they Understand that they have to concretely build movement. So in other words, we built a 15 now grassroots movement We built the tax amazon grassroots movement. Similarly, we will need a medicare for all grassroots movement Where aoc and the squad members are actually calling for national actions calling for a march to washington calling for action conferences in multiple cities throughout the nation where ordinary people Progressive labor unions many other left leaders can stand on their side and really Create a dynamic where far from being marginalized You the left in congress could actually put serious pressure That Nancy Pelosi's establishment not to mention the republican party would come to fear But that is not going to happen as long as we have the left No matter how genuine that is thinking that they have They have only so much room to maneuver and that they have to at the end of the day vote for Nancy Pelosi Look this this is another form of lesser evilism and lesser evilism in my view Is a permanent defensive posture for the left If we if we adopt lesser evilism then that's logic is endless No year no month no day will be the right time for you to go up against the establishment. So we have to Dispense with lesser evilism and understand That you know 70 million people voted for donald trump How are we going to win them over? It is by building mass movements around demands that they will agree with many of them will agree with us on Medicare for all green new jobs ending renter debt, which is now becoming any, you know Huge crisis ending student debt and really building that grassroots effort Yeah, I think that really you are hitting on all the points and answering the questions that we've kind of been asking ourselves like for me, I've I've been Trying to wonder and like reassess my theory of change after bernie sanders lost the primary in 2020 and thinking like How do we ever get to this point? To where we we can get medicare for all, you know I don't think we're going to abolish capitalism anytime soon But at least reign it in a little bit more and move closer and closer Toward social democracy for now Um, and I think that really the question or the answer rather it's always been right in front of us It's not a matter of like well, how much more members of the squad do we need? To start, you know, flexing our muscle in congress. Do we need four more 10 more? It's a matter of we need uh Movements we need people to be activated and you know to me I think it's as little Or as simple as really even organizing people in your own communities if we all do this Then we could have a huge effect at the aggregate level. It's just a matter of like trying to relearn Bad behaviors because I think that a lot of us myself included We've been kind of like hyper focused on electoral politics from the standpoint of like Elections and politicians and I think it makes sense why we focused on that because we were this close to the white house So it's like when you have almost, you know, um the most amount of power in this system You know, it makes you feel as if a lot more things are are possible But you kind of have to go back to the drawing board once that you know is out of the question and think How do we actually get the change and it's going to come from, you know, the bottom up and not the top down And I think that if people really internalize that and they use that to guide themselves, you know going forward to fight for change Then I think everything will be um It's not going to be smooth to say the least, but I think that it'll make more sense Um to have that perspective I would say though that uh, I don't I don't believe that we were this close to Getting Bernie Sanders elected. I it's two things one Were there tens of millions of people absolutely electrified by his message of a political revolution against the billionaire class? Absolutely. Yes Was there a real opening for the left? Absolutely. Yes, but Was it going to happen through the democratic party? No in fact, when he when bernie sanders Socialist alternative my organization and I we supported bernie sanders both in 2016 and and last year And I've spoken at his rallies, you know campaign rallies both times But when he was about to announce his candidacy in 2016 In a public forum On the climate change in new york city in manhattan I asked him publicly to run not as a democratic party candidate, but as an independent candidate And obviously he didn't agree and he ran as a democrat and I think it's a very simple Uh, calculus. It's very simple calculation here if you will run in a party that Whose establishment is aligned with the billionaire class? How can that be the party that will tolerate a campaign against the billionaire class? It is as simple as that It's not, uh, you know, we should we should uh, we should Understand that this is this is the essence of politics and this is something all working people can understand It is not something that's inaccessible to them. You don't have to have a phd to get a very simple fact It's a question of you know, what logic you're following And I think one of the main components of why We were able to do it differently and show a different example is because I am not part of a Party I'm not a member of a party that is opposed to the agenda that I'm running on which is for the working class I am a part of socialist alternative which itself is you know, it's a it's a socialist organization that Is made up of rank and file activists who are all have democratic rights within the organization Who discuss and debate all important questions such as should we run a candidate? Who the candidate should be what the campaign platform should be it is not done by one? elite individual And furthermore socialist alternative itself is rooted in the wider social movement our members are Members of the working class. They are women. They are people of color. They are ordinary people They're grocery store workers amazon bear house workers tech workers educators Librarians these are these are the people who are rooted in the social movements themselves I myself, you know, I'm a teacher by profession. I'm an economist and teacher by profession and I'm a member of the teachers union and so I think All of the questions that you raised mic They bring up the one of I think the most important point which is that in seattle Socialist alternative and me being part of socialist alternative has been the absolute backbone of everything We have been able to achieve because having an own my own organization with me an organization furthermore that is rooted in the working class Makes sure that I am never alone I may be one in on the dais with eight other democratic establishment people who may oppose me on Or attempt to oppose the working class agenda that we bring forward But what they are going up against is not just me They're going up against socialist alternative and the working class that socialist alternative is rooted in and so really many of the Questions of organizing for medicare for all also bring up the question of our How can we do that with inside the democratic party in my view? We need a new party for the working class a party that is not organized as you said not organized top down But it's democratically organized where actually Not as an aspiration, but actually members of that party can hold their elected officials accountable But not only that a party that is rooted in social movements And it's not just simply an election running machine So I want to pick your brain on this a little bit um if if you have a little bit more time Because I actually disagree I don't think that bernie sanders should have run Outside of the democratic party even if I wanted that to happen And even if he wouldn't have those institutional barriers that prevent change The problem is that and i've kind of gone back and forth on this over the last couple of years Is even though at the local level, I think it is possible to to subvert douverier's law How how can we do this? How do we actually get a third party to be viable given our majority and electoral system because I I was of the thinking and this was my reasoning in 2016 for supporting the green party is that You know, maybe it's the case that if we can get the greens to five percent They'll get national funding and that will kind of get the ball rolling But what I realize is that like the two-party duopoly in the united states It's almost like culturally ingrained and so I feel like people even leftists will check out if you just mention like A third party and I think the answer to that is electoral reform First because in order to have like a multi-party system or an alternative to What is basically I mean one-party rule if we're talking about capitalism in the united states Is you have to have institutions that allow for proportional representation So what do you say to um Folks like me who think bernie was right to run of the democratic party because that was the only way for him to actually Win but then when he's in as president you can change the institutions like how do we how do we subvert duverger's law? Is that possible? It wasn't actually a way to win because they didn't let him win, right? I mean sure what what evidence would anybody use to Prove the hypothesis that running the to the democratic party is the only way you can win But you didn't win so sure what's the evidence? uh, but I would say that you know just starting from your original point about electoral reform Obviously, you know there are pros and cons of different electoral systems And I wouldn't you know, I don't want to start a debate on those but what I will say what I will offer is Now I my home country, india has the kind of system that your electoral system that you're talking about proportional representation And what do we have in india? We don't have just two parties. We have multiple parties And yet what have we seen in the same period, you know in the same three four decade period What we have seen is not one of those parties actually fighting for the working class in fact Many of the parties that used to be somewhat left-leaning or progressive have actually moved to the right and the more Right-leaning parties have now become, you know, absolutely fundamentalist and somewhat deadly to to even basic ideas like democracy as you're seeing with the BJP and the Modi regime, right? And so I don't know. I don't actually believe that this is uh, you know This comes down to electoral reform in the sense that if we fix this or that electoral law Then we will be able to run left campaigns and get somebody To win as president in you know, somebody like bernie sanders. I don't actually believe that and and going back to my account of how when I asked bernie sanders That was in november of 2014 I believe in manhattan the day before the big people's climate march that I believe you should run As an independent because I don't believe that running inside a party that is Off the billionaire class will allow you to run a political revolution against the billionaire class And bernie sanders response was something along the lines of well, I don't want to run an Educational campaign, you know, I don't want to run a campaign just for the sake of it. I want to win And my response to that is of course. Yes, absolutely. We want to win We've won three elections as an independent socialist in seattle. So absolutely. We are about winning the left has to win Especially with the ticking clock of climate catastrophe. We have no time to mess around We have to be very very serious about winning But the this is the point the democratic party Has proven what we socialist alternatives said in 2014 that they will never allow Bernie sanders is working class agenda to become that party's agenda because that party is controlled by billionaire interests by fossil fuel lobby by all the powerful interests that are Completely hostile to even minor reforms let alone an actual socialist vision as an alternative to capitalism so the problem here is that we Will be stuck in this hamster wheel Of running a left campaign inside the democratic party every four years now that you know now that bernie sanders has opened that road And and losing again and again As long as we think that this is about running that one, you know magic presidential campaign Once in some four-year period and winning and again, maybe that changing everything I don't think it is going to work that way at the end of the day I think it is a question of seeing this to the lens of a longer-term movement building approach and not Understanding that this one election is not going to be the result of anything I mean, I will also say this even if bernie sanders were to win I don't believe that it could win inside the democratic party But even if he were to win do you think that they would just allow him to do all the things that he wants to do for the world class Exactly. So my point is that this temptation that I completely I'm completely compassionate to this idea But I'm what I'm trying to point out that it's it's a dead end, which is that it's understandable that people believe that well Building a new party from scratch. That's just seems utopian. That just seems too daunting Let's try something that seems less daunting which is do it to the democratic party. I understand The temptation to go that route because something else seems more daunting My counter to that is actually Not only is the democratic running the democratic establishment route just as daunting because look at the kind of attacks and chicanery that they used to destroy bernie sanders campaign, which they absolutely did That they would do it that it would be just as daunting in fact Thinking working class agenda can succeed inside democratic party. That's utopian in my view So there's no avoiding a massive class struggle type of clash and I mean, I don't mean physical clash I mean a political clash between the haves and the have nots the people who Have any incentive to keep this rotten system intact, which is the billionaire class and their political cronies And the billions in this world who have every reason to urgently bring about a social shift There is no avoiding that political clash that political clash is going to happen one way or another And the sooner we understand that as long as we keep ourselves beholden to a party that is controlled not by us But by the billionaire class we that is going to run into a dead end. So it's never going to be Easy I'm not trying to sell this idea that if it's going to be easy to build a new party. No, I promise you when we do build that new party I promise you that There will be all kinds of hostile elements Who will become part of that party and then try to use that party's platform to further their own own careers So we should not expect and this is the main point I'm trying to make we should never expect that it's ever going to be easy It is going to be hard The question is which is the right way to go which is the way that's going to yield us the most results And this is where I'll come, you know, full circle to Bernie Sanders a response He said something like I don't want to run an educational campaign and my response to that was Well, you are not going to be able to win inside the democratic establishment for the simple reason that they will not let you win They will use every trick in the book to undermine you which is exactly what they did And on top of that you will send a wrong education of you know, it won't even be the right kind of educational campaign Where the message, you know, the right kind of educational campaign is our campaigns where we say openly and honestly to Ordinary people, this is the way to go We can we can do it. It's not going to promise you that it's going to be a rosy path But this is the only way that will yield results. The last point I'll say in in response to your very important question Is that I think we should also stop um engaging in this what I feel is the False dichotomy between local and national politics any idea that the democratic establishment will let you do what you want for the working class locally is Is dispelled that idea is completely dispelled by Looking at what how how hard they're going after my office There as you said they have attacked us in every which way I have lost count of the number of lawsuits the number of attacks, you know, based on so-called ethics Uh that have Been done against us in 2019 They're democrat the progressive wing of the democratic establishment Latina council members women they ran a candidate against me in the primary So the and now we are facing this recall attack So my point is that there is no Space where whether it's local or national that we will be able to build the left without an onslaught of attacks By the ruling class and no we are not going to win every battle we we take up It's a question of which direction you're heading though. That's the point I think you make a lot of really compelling points And you may be right that they would have never allowed burning to win because I'm recalling the times when We saw the discussions of them using super delegates to basically steal the nomination away from him in the event He did get a plurality of pledge delegates, but not an outright majority Um, so I think that actually is a really compelling point My my only issue is that I I've been kind of like trying to broaden out my analysis And I kind of look at both of the parties as many institutions within a larger system a capitalist system And so in the event, let's say hypothetically speaking Bernie Sanders were to win the presidency if he did pursue Uh, a third party option. Don't you think that the same institutional mechanisms that would have kept him down? Um, if he ran within the democratic party would still exert that same pressure on him If he was outside the democratic party because he'll still be working with democrats and republicans in congress So I'll have to caucus with them as an independent president So I'm just trying to figure out like in terms of long-term strategy. I kind of like my my Theory of change has kind of been a two-pronged approach I think that you do have to try to take over the democratic party even if that might be almost impossible but I also think that third party alternatives are effective at putting pressure on the other parties because they can only get So out of step with their base until they start losing portions of that base to third parties So I think that you you know using both to your advantage When when it when it's effective is going to work But how how do we like I think this is kind of like speaking to a broader question um of capitalism in general and like is capitalism Allowing us to make the change at all and you've kind of answered that question in the sense that so long as you have movements Really you can you can do whatever so long as that movement is activated and working class people are are brought into this process and not kind of sidelined To your first point wouldn't if if bernie sanders had run as an independent and if he had won And I think that is a loaded point because the only way he could have won is if we had a completely different situation here In the united states with movements genuinely empowered on a national level like the small example that we have shown in seattle, but it would have to be 100 times over So as far as your question wouldn't wouldn't they have attacked him even if we wouldn't the democratic establishment have attacked him Even if he had run as an independent Absolutely, they would have and that's not a hypothetical question. Look at what they're doing in seattle Look at what the democratic establishment is doing in seattle. I am not a democrat I am a socialist alternative member. I ran independent of the democratic party. There's been no shortage of attacks I mean, as I said, I have lost count of the attacks. They have made against my office. So I don't think the point of difference between Whether you run as an independent or you run as a democratic party member Is about how much they will attack you what they are hostile to Is if you are genuinely wanting to fight for the working class Bernie Sanders is genuinely wanting to fight for the working class Which is why we supported him and yes, that is precisely why the democratic party Establishment will be utterly hostile to his agenda whether he ran as a democrat or as an independent That's not the question. The question is which is the way in which we can genuinely build The strength of the grassroots or the strength of movements of ranked and filed people of millions of young people Is it going to be within the democratic party? Or is it going to be to build to begin to build an independent force? And that's where I think the answer is latter not turning everybody into this blind alley of the democratic party Which we know doesn't work because they are hostile to our agenda. That is why we need our own organization and Bottom line again the only way we have been able to do what we have done in seattle is because I am not alone I actually have a force with me, which is socialist alternative That's the kind of difference it can make if you have your own party standing with you because no individual However, extraordinarily gifted is going to be able to do this on their own So it doesn't matter how genuine and courageous Bernie Sanders is alone He is not able to achieve it and he's he's clear about that He said he talked about being an organizer in chief where where I disagree with him is Is that possible from inside the democratic party? And I don't believe that it will be and at the end of the day, I think you also made an important point yourself, which is that as long as you are running inside the parties of capitalism You cannot build a force against capitalism. I mean, it's as simple as that and that is why what we need is a political organization that will be For and by the American working class That will be tied to the rank and file of the labor movement that can actually present a collective, you know so organized challenge to the might of the capitalist class and running candidates from this this kind of party will be part of the work that the party would do and in reality The most important point would be the party would be rooted in the working class and really build helping to build movement and I think Again, these these questions are To be posed even to the squad even even though they've they've run as democrats The question is what is stopping them from for example, launching national days of action for medicare for all Really building action conferences. We but we organized tax amazon action conferences in seattle They can organize medicare for all action conferences nationwide Do you do you do we believe that there will be any shortage of enthusiasm on the part of ordinary people for something like that? No medicare for all is one of the Most popular demands in the united states including a huge proportion of republican voters And we are in the middle of the pandemic Everybody who is on the ground wants medicare for all. So what's stopping the squad from doing it is not any? A suspicion that there's enough and that they may not be enough enthusiasm on the ground What's stopping them at the end of the day? Is that they are afraid that if they did that they would be completely, you know, that that that would be the The sort of it's it's a call to arms, you know, it's a call to action to the working class That is completely against what the democratic establishment wants and it's not just Nancy Pelosi It's you know, it's it's that whole group of them And many of them who even call themselves progressive they are not going to agree with this So at the end of the day the only way that The squad could do this is if they had their own party with them and that is why I'm saying that we need a new party because You know the conservatives the corporate Politicians they have a very big force on their side, which is the capitalist class and the capitalist system itself What do we have on our side? Millions and tens of millions of people So unless we organize them in a serious way with a political organization that goes beyond just election years And is rooted in mass movements. We are not going to be able to achieve that. Yeah, I think this is really fascinating and I've kind of been like Uh, I've been both sides are on this issue Like I kind of like I think we should try both things at once Like I think that try to take over the democratic party try to form a new party put pressure Build up existing parties organize I think that at the end of the day Even though there's there's like a lot of disagreement on the left and it is somewhat divisive and it's dividing a lot of members of the Left one thing that I'm always willing to admit is that if we find a strategy that works Then I'm willing to abandon what I previously Knew, you know, I'll unlearn the bad habits And I think that you certainly are coming from a place of legitimacy Having been able to accomplish so much that didn't just change a lot of Seattle But it's having an impact on the national political discourse because again, we're kind of seeing the democratic party Copy your minimum wage model in Seattle, which you kind of spearheaded So it's it's really interesting and really thank you so much for coming on I've taken up way too much of your time But I think that this recall effort is it's really important that we fight this and just having you explain like What it takes to truly like get change is is it's just perfect? So thank you so much Shama. Can you tell us where we can find you online on twitter? Um, and whatnot Yes for the solidarity campaign against the recall attempt, please go to shama solidarity dot org Which is my first name ksh a ma solidarity dot org. You can find My council office stuff, you know, really interesting stuff on twitter My twitter handle is cm shama that is cm and my first name And of course, you can just google my name or you can google socialist alternative and find out more information Now really welcome anybody who's watching this if you have Questions about socialist alternative or how we have conducted our work in the city council What it means to be a socialist how we can win any of the victories that we're talking about the necessary things like medicare for all Please don't hesitate to reach out to me and I really appreciate you mike for asking all those really important questions Yeah, thank you so much for your time. It's nice to like have someone on Who has done so much like explain what it takes because I think that like I'm really I've kind of like I went into this like doom and gloom mode after 2020 and it felt like everything was hopeless But to really look to these examples of success in the united states I think it shows that not all hope is lost even in this late stage capitalist system like we can't affect change it's just a matter of like Doing the right thing and most importantly organizing, you know talking to people. So thank you so much council woman so on It's been an absolute pleasure Thank you so much mike and as you said, yes, it does feel like doom and gloom and it's completely understandable I feel that way too and it's it's because there is a lot of You know, we see the system not working for us But I think the thing that really makes me Feel better when I'm having one of those doom and gloom moments is when I remind myself Of one simple logical reality, which is that if we don't fight Then we are facing doom and gloom. We have no option But to fight and I think that should really help us Remember that it is worth fighting for this planet and humanity is worth fighting for And what better what what better way there is to spend our life? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, thank you so much. Beautifully put Thank you so much. Mike really appreciate it Well, that's everything folks. Thank you so much for tuning in if you've made it as far as usual I want to thank everyone who signed up to support the show you help us not just to survive but thrive as well And you all are absolutely integral to our success. Thank you so much. I will see you all next week My name is mike figurative. This has been the humanist report. Take care everyone