 Moratoriums expiring and the rents come and do. Economic and market uncertainty are a dangerous duo. Are we the divided states of America or is it just a divided Congress? Let's start the discourse. Hi, I'm Robin Byro. Welcome to American Discourse. Who else out there thought like me that after Joe Biden was inaugurated, we would have nothing but delightfully boring, slow news weeks immediately thereafter. Well, I mean for at least four years, right? Well, with a pandemic on the decline but still raging and millions of Americans out of work and an economy facing all sorts of uncertainties, it is becoming painfully clear that it just wasn't gonna be as simple as ushering in a new presidential administration. Gone are the flashy headlines and the endless parade of executive staff turnovers, circus-like chaos, daily drama, and round-the-clock turmoil. You'd think that that would signal a return to some sense of normalcy. Think again, the media hasn't known exactly what to do with themselves. They've become absolutely addicted to the daily dopamine drip of drama and so it continues, well, at least on our favorite cable news channels. But that is just a distraction because bubbling just beneath the surface are some stories that just aren't getting the traction they deserve, despite the fact that they have the potential to dramatically affect the lives of millions of everyday Americans. We are here today to cut through the diet of nonsensical news stories and click bait headlines to give you the stories that you really should be paying attention to and to arm you with the tools and information that you need to make sense of it all and survive it all because in these uncertain times, knowledge is power. Right off the bat, the biggest story that I think is not being covered anywhere is what happens when these rent moratoriums and mortgage forbearances that millions of Americans are taking advantage of expire, which guess what you guys, it's a lot sooner than you think. I could tell you that it varies from state to state, lender to lender and landlord to landlord. So a lot of Americans are probably losing sleep at night right now because of all that uncertainty of what the heck happens when the rent comes due. Now look, I've been a frequent, very harsh critic of our former president, but I did actually pause and give him credit for the protections that he put in place. But I don't think that any of us thought that the pandemic would last this long or impact our country to the extent that it has. I mean, I remember you guys telling my kids last March, okay, we're gonna stock up and stay home for about a month and then everything's gonna get back to normal. How did that work out? Yeah, we all know. So now we've got a new administration taken on the challenge. Part of that challenge has been the extension of these mortgage forbearances and rent moratoriums put in place by the former president, which is good, right? I think we can all agree on that. But here's the thing, we just can't kick the can down the road forever. If we stick it to the banks and landlords, are we setting ourselves up for another financial crisis like the one that we saw in 2008? And landlords and banks, are they seriously expecting for millions of Americans to just pay all of that back due rent all at once when these protections expire? Don't start panicking yet. I'm not here to do that to you, but we are going to be breaking this down in a few moments with an expert. Another story that has been downright perplexing is the bizarre congressional testimony going on right now about the stock market. I mean, just last week, we saw a private citizen called into testify about how he seemingly got millions of Joe Schmoes to stick it to a hedge fund and really upending the stock market by buying up stock in GameStop. He did it with nothing more than some social media posts that were gobbled up and followed by a pack of everyday small-scale private investors. And it really did, you guys. It absolutely upended the stock market. It's a crazy story. I've got a lot of questions for our guests on just what the heck is going on with all that. Lastly, before I bring on our guest, I've got to tell you right off the bat that she and I are from vastly different political ideologies. She's someone who I've debated before on mainstream media, live national television. But we have been able to agree on some issues in spite of our differences. After all, this show is American Discourse. It has discourse right there in the name. So what have I got to tell you? We aren't here just to bring you sick of fans who are here to agree with us week after week. My guests and I have been able to find common ground through civil debate because we listened to one another and heard each other out. Can Americans do the same and be truly the United States of America? And what about our elected officials in Congress? Do we have any hope of them being able to work with one another to actually do their jobs, represent their constituents, or are we too entrenched in political warfare? With all of that said, the time is upon us for the Discourse Deep Dive. Now for the audience back home, the backstory is that Melissa and I have debated each other numerous times in the media. So this should be really interesting because this is a different take. Now, Melissa, we have a lot to talk about today, but one concern that I know that we boast here is about the millions of Americans who signed mortgage forbearance agreements and rent deferments without really knowing what they were getting themselves into. I mean, we know the agreements had to happen because of the pandemic and the record unemployment levels that it caused. So I praise the federal protections that our former president put in place. And I think it was the right call for our current president to extend them. That being said, due to all of these back payments being, will they all become due all at once and when fell swoop like in one month? Now I need you to break this down for us and maybe give the people a little bit of hope so they're not gonna be so anxious at night. Well, I wish I could, Robin, but to be honest with you, this pandemic has gone on longer than anyone ever, ever could have imagined. So when President Trump, when former President Trump put in these pandemic, they pushed off the moratorium and they kept pushing off and pushing off for rents and foreclosures. I think the first initially it was 30 days and it was 60 days and it was 90 days. And then finally they said December, 2020. And now here we are and they're probably going to push them back again. The federal evictions for if you own a home for foreclosures is extended now through June of 2021. For rents, it's through the end of March. Well, we're almost into the end of March. So that's coming up and just a little bit more than 30 some days. So I think the problem is that like you said, people have signed and agreeing to pay all of this back rent and realistically, how is anyone gonna be able to do that? If someone's been at work, yeah, I mean, if someone's been out of work for 12 months or more or six months or more or four months or more, the number one concern for them is one, finding employment and two, feeding themselves and paying current housing going forward. So it's going to continue probably to be extended and the problem is like you mentioned earlier for banks and for people that are holding mortgages even if the bank isn't holding the mortgage if the landlord actually has a mortgage on a property they are not getting paid. But of course, they have to pay the loan on their mortgage with the bank or say they don't even have a mortgage on a building. They still have to pay all the costs associated, insurance, taxes, all of the costs that's associated with owning a building and being a landlord. So I gotta ask you right there in your professional opinion, are we setting ourselves up for another financial crisis like we had in 2008? If we leave landlords and banks holding the bag because wouldn't that hurt us all? You know, right now today as we're talking what's really interesting is I looked up Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan Chase, guess what? They're making brand new all-time highs today. Those stocks are rallying. You say how can that possibly be happening? The market is not even making new highs today and the banks are making new highs. Interest rates now for mortgages have slightly ticked up as well. They're still roughly around 3%, which is a good rate. But what's gonna happen is it's gonna come back around where banks end up taking back some of these properties and driving up rates and fees. Somehow the banks always end up making out. To say that it's gonna come back to hurt them, there may be a dip, but banks somehow always end up making out. So really at the end of the day, the people that are gonna be hurt is the people that can't pay, the people that end up and say that this is a problem and this is something that really that the Biden administration needs to address. They can keep pushing the can down the road, as you said, but what's gonna happen to people's credits? If someone signed an agreement that they would pay a back rent for 12 months or from whatever time they had a lease in and they keep extending it and then eventually when they stop extending it, are they gonna put something on their credit or put a judgment on their credit that they owe $25,000 worth of back rent or whatever it is that someone in the Biden administration needs to address that. They need to look into it because then that wouldn't be fair for the people either. Yeah, that's a really great point. And I remember early on in the pandemic, I logged on to my bank to pay my mortgage and I saw the little button that you could click to to get a mortgage forbearance agreement and they made it really easy. But if you didn't look at that small print on there, you didn't understand that all of that money was gonna come due all at once at the end of the 180 day term. Now, I said no thanks, but I really worried about those little guys who didn't take the time to read that small print. So the question that I gotta ask is, surely our government isn't setting citizens up for a massive increase in homelessness, are they? Well, okay, first of all, let's address two things. You're talking about signing these agreements. First of all, my advice to people is, if you can make your housing payment, make it, okay? You are better off staying current with your rent, staying current with your mortgage payment, not going into default, as enticing as it may seem for all these things that keep prompting up people to, if you're having trouble, you'd wanna skip a credit card payment. If you can keep making your payments for all of your bills, please do so. You don't wanna hurt your credit through this. It's a different story if you're out of work and you can't pay your bills. It's a completely different story, okay? But if you can, I'm saying try and make it. Before you sign any agreements or before you agree to anything, people must read the fine print. And I gotta be honest with you too. Some people don't understand it. If you don't understand what you're signing, don't sign it. Wait, ask someone that understands it. Ask, go into the bank. Just sit down with someone at the bank. Can you please explain this to me? I don't understand what this means. They have banks have reopened, like in New York here, banks were closed for a long, long time. Oh, so you're the banks were closed. Now they're open partial hours. Walk into the bank, set an appointment and talk to somebody and get all the answers because what you don't wanna do is sign some kind of agreement, be obligated then legally to something and you're not gonna be able to even meet those requirements and it creates another problem. So that's one, okay? Second of all, is it setting people up for a failure? You know, this is just the whole system right now as a disaster. This is what I'm talking about. I can guarantee you they're gonna extend the rental moratorium past March 31st. That's gonna be extended. And at this point now, if things don't get better where they don't start speeding up the vaccinations across the country, not just in certain places. I mean, all across the board where everybody can start getting it, not just the older people, by June they're gonna end up extending it through the end of 2021 or the fall of 2021 again for the foreclosures. And it's just a matter of how long can banks go without payments? And that's what I'm saying. It's so odd that you have the banks making new highs today. When you look at the fact that people have been paying. Now some of these banks, what they did is that people went in and they signed an agreement where they just stretched out the loan where they may have signed an agreement to tack the loan on. Say you had 15 years left in the mortgage or 12 and a half years left in your mortgage. Were you signed an agreement then to extend it where you're still gonna pay but you're gonna pay and the loan is out now further but you're still getting charged interest. It's not like they've stopped charging you interest. They're just stopping the payments. And that was my concern earlier where I'm saying what's gonna happen to people's credit if they can't pony up them or rent by the time they move out. I mean, I'm gonna be honest with you. Again, if people haven't worked in a year where they're gonna come up with the last year's rent in one big lump sum. No matter how much stimulus you get people no matter how much extra unemployment they give people it's just not enough. People are barely trying to get back on their feet even now. Last week we had a higher unemployment number. Week over week the claims are still nowhere near under a half a million. We ain't gonna get those numbers down. And the only way that's gonna happen is if states fully, fully open up. And even here in New York they just open up restaurants Valentine's Day at 25% capacity. And I gotta be honest with you a lot of them didn't even open up. They could have opened up. They didn't. Why? It doesn't pay for them to open up and pay the rent and to keep the lights on and pay all their employees at 25% capacity. You can't hardly get anybody in there to make any money. You know, and I'm glad you brought that up because I know that you live in Manhattan and nobody questions that a huge portion of our national income depends on New York City. So what's your roots on the ground perspective the way the housing market looks? What it's like for small businesses, retail, everything else that drives the economy where you live. Do you think it can recover once people get vaccinated? I want you to give us some hope here. I think the problem is two things right now. Fear is a major problem. People are just full on still afraid of getting it. The vaccination will help people be not so afraid. Okay, so that's part of it. Once people get vaccinated I think they're gonna kind of get out of fear. And they will want to go out and they will want to do stuff and they will want to go to restaurants. I mean, the problem is that people have gotten so sick and so sick and people have died that people are afraid. So until more people get the vaccination, again, they're saying now people are still getting it after they get vaccinated. I don't know if that's true or not but the vaccination will help the fear level. It'll take the fear level from here all the way down into here. It's not gonna take it down to zero but it's gonna bring it down. It's gonna temper the tone of what's happening across the country where people are so afraid of getting this virus to say that it's never gonna go away. It's never gonna go away and that's the concern. That's a concern. How long is it gonna take for these places to recover? I think here in New York City, I live here so I don't know what's going on in other places but when I went home to Pennsylvania things are slightly more normal there than they are here. The problem with New York is that so many of these businesses have been shuttered. They're gone. They ain't coming back. I mean, they are just gone and people are gone too. So the problem is if you had two kids, three dogs and you had two parents that lived here and they packed up and left in the summer of 2020, it's not like they bought a house someplace else. There's kids who are in school someplace else. They're not gonna just pack up and come back here now because there's a vaccine. I mean, it just doesn't work like that. So I think New York City has lost a huge amount of their tax base. That's problem number one. And problem number two is the state hasn't it's not allowing all these businesses to open up but even if they said boom, turn off the light switch or turn on the light switch and open everything up tomorrow. I'm telling you, people are still so scared to get COVID that they're not all gonna run out and that is a big problem. So I think New York City is a long way from coming back to normal. You can't, the production is not spread out. You don't have all this money and all this productivity happening in one small place which is New York City at the height like 10 million people living here are very tiny island. Our financial capital, right? They've moved, I don't know what I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah. And so I think it's a big problem now. You have these businesses like some of these commercial buildings, they're empty too. Talk about real estate. I mean, you have these major corporations. Well, it's a real problem. So I gotta tell you, I gotta move on to the next topic while I've got you here because you're our stock expert too. And I gotta tell you, I was all hyped up when I saw those redditors investing what looked to be their life savings into game stocks, game stop stock and making millionaires overnight of some everyday people. I mean, that was fun. But what little I know about the market is that once you learn about something like that it's pretty much already too late to get in on it. So I've gotta thank you. Thank you for telling me and others in your videos to stay away and not invest what you couldn't afford to lose. But I'm so confused this week as why this private citizen was called to testify before Congress. Can you help explain that to a layman like myself? Well, he was pumping up the stock on videos prior to that big jump. So they're investigating it now and they want answers as to whether or not he really created something called a pump and dump where he was in the stock already along it. And did he honestly just believe that the stock was going to go higher and buy it and just through these videos? And that's the question. I don't think that they really got the answers that they wanted at the congressional hearing. And I think that there's gonna be more investigations into this. I watched the gentleman's testimony and I have to be honest with you. I don't think he really took it seriously enough because he started out saying that he wasn't a cat. Well, obviously he's not. I saw that. I gotta talk about that congressional testimony. In your opinion, was Congress right to scrutinize the app Robinhood? Because to my understanding, they froze trading and they were only letting retail investors sell certain stocks and preventing them from buying others. So in your opinion, did they do anything wrong? Well, they said that they had liquidity issues. And quite frankly, if they can provide documentation that they did have liquidity issues then they did have a right to do what they did. Remember, some of these traders were trading on margin and so there's a clearing house where all the trades go through. If they really, in fact, didn't have enough cash, I'm talking about Robinhood, to be giving people margin to be in this position then they were in danger of going belly up. So that is the reason- Okay, now I get it. The decision. Thank you. That makes sense to me. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, that makes sense to me. That was the best explanation I've heard anyone give yet on that. And look, I can look and read it on Wall Street Bets and the whole impetus, according to them, was about sinking a hedge fund that was trying to short businesses. So did it work specifically? Is that one hedge fund sunk? I don't know if they're sunk or not. I haven't read up on that recently, but prior to that, they had said that they lost about 30% of their capital, which is disastrous. And if they're not sunk, their reputation is sunk because who's gonna invest money to those people again. So I don't know what the future holds for them because if you were a person and you had money and say you were a billionaire would you invest with those people? No, you wouldn't. No. You wouldn't do that. Now, just anecdotally for our listeners, you and I have debated each other, like I said, frequently on mainstream media and we're aligned very different politically, but we've managed to find common ground on some issues and we've made friends, we've become friends and remained friends in spite of our political differences. So we've done that through constructive discourse and it gives me some hope for our country that maybe as a country, we aren't so divided that we can't hear one another out. What does constructive discourse mean to you and how do you think that you and I managed to stay friends through an insane political cycle when all you see across the country is evidence that politics is driving a wedge between families, neighbors and coworkers. Have we done it? Well, because our friendship is more important than proving either one of us right or wrong. I'll say that for one. Amen. And not only that, you're not extreme on the left and I'm not extreme on the right. So I think the problem is that the media is covering extremes, extreme right, extreme left opinions and that is the problem. And so when you have these extremes, you have these extremes, those people are never gonna find a common ground, but I don't, I mean, I could be wrong, but I don't think most of the country is extreme left or extreme right, no matter how the media portrays it. So I think if most people don't like to lie and talk about things and have regular conversation like people used to do at parties, a cocktail party. And listen. Yeah, and have a good conversation. What's wrong with having a good debate? Having a good debate is a healthy thing. I love it. Yeah. Yeah, and I really do appreciate your friendship. And the fact that you take time to listen and I take time to listen to you and hear each other out, that's what's needed in America. You bring up a great point about the extremes in either direction. That's really not where the bulk of the country is, but you're right. The media does make those look like nice sexy controversial stories. So let's talk about our elected officials. There's hope for the citizenry, right? Cause I mean, we're starting to hear each other out again just as fellow Americans. So, and we're seeing some bipartisan support for some things like the stimulus package, for example, but the legislators, they are just admired in political warfare. Do you think that we'll ever get past that? Is there any hope? It's not looking good, Robin. You want to realize it's not looking good. Why brought you on? I have a lot of hope for them right now. Congress, to be honest with you, it seems to be worthless. I mean, we're talking about people and losing their homes and paying their rent. Why don't they get that darn stimulus done? Get those $1,400 checks out to people. What are they waiting for? That's what happened in November after the election. I mean, here we are. It's March, April, June, come on. These people got to, well, I don't understand. It's like these people don't work. If I wouldn't show up to work, I wouldn't get paid. These people show up for work every day and they don't seem to do anything. And they- Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. And I love it. I love that you see that. I see that all of America really sees that, but Congress, all they're interested in is this political warfare and digging their heels in and really not representing their constituents. So thank you, Melissa. I know you're crazy busy, but these were incredibly important topics that really just aren't being covered at all in mainstream media. So thank you for bringing your expertise to the show and we hope to have you back. Thanks for having me, Robin. You know, one thing that really struck a chord with me about President Biden's inaugural address was the call for us to embrace one another as fellow human beings, not red states, not blue states, but to come together as Americans who all love our country and want to make a more perfect union. I guess perfectly imperfect, if you will. I have serious categorical political differences with my friend, Melissa, but you know what? We do both love our country. I know you guys listening at home have family, friends, coworkers and neighbors that you probably even vehemently disagree with politically. But if we want the vitriol and the hatred to stop and for us to heal and dare I be so bold and say, love our neighbors again, it's going to take each and every one of us moving a little bit outside of our respective comfort zones and hearing each other out. It doesn't stop with politics either. We found ourselves divided along socioeconomic lines, racial lines, gendered lines and even generational lines. I'm looking forward to bringing someone on the show to talk about how we've self-segregated within our own communities and how that affects the discourse. I believe that could be a really interesting topic down the road, so we'll put a pin in it. For now though, I'm gonna do some self-reflection and I really hope that you at home will do the same. You may have gotten comfortable in your own bubble of your own lives and think of ways that you can reach outside of your perceived safety zone in a way that shows genuine care and concern for people who maybe don't look like you and don't think like you because we're all in this together. This pandemic has certainly made that abundantly clear. So it is going to be up to each one of us to see ways that we can find in our own lives to heal some of these deep divisions. Okay, with that said, we've hopefully put some minds at ease about what's next for the millions of Americans who are enjoying these federal protections from evictions and foreclosures. I know I'll sleep a little better myself. So that was very interesting to learn about and especially everything that's going on with the economy. But now you guys, I've got, I just need a palette cleanser. So I've got a great story for you up next about writing a generational wrong. I always like to leave you with a good feeling. So let me tell you about this story coming out of Minnesota. Emotions were really high this month when the Minnesota Historical Society returned over a hundred acres of ancestral land to the lower Sioux community. After generations of them being separated from their ancestral land, this ruling righted the wrongs of a broken treaty from years past. Now, this was a joyous occasion to be sure, but it was not lost on any of us that these lands were the site of a brutal and deadly war. It displaced hundreds, if not thousands, of indigenous people. I can't even fathom it. And I get really bothered when our government breaks promises to the people that it governs. The thing is that nobody expected this wrong to ever be corrected. And the reality is that even these indigenous people had given up all hope. Well, hope returned this month. And the look on their faces when their ancestral lands were returned to these people was really something to behold. Moments like this restore my faith in humanity and are a step at reminding me that government really can work for the people that it governs. I don't know about you, but I needed this story during these difficult times, which is why I'm so happy to share it with you today. Well, folks, that's all the time we have for today. If you haven't done so already, please hit the subscribe button and don't keep us a secret. You can find us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, you know the deal. Check out all the links right below. I also always look forward to hearing from you. So please message me and then listen for our mailbag segment where we will take on your questions. I am Robin Byro. Thank you so much for listening to American Discourse, a production of Discourse USA. Our producers are David Kastner and Audrey Kennedy. Until next time, breathe. It's only going to get better.