 Hello, and welcome to senior moment. My name is David refson. I am your host for the show Senior moment is about seniors and for seniors. I am very pleased to have as my guest today Russ Vernon Jones a longtime educator and climate change activist Russ has a blog on climate change and racism Russ welcome to the show. Thank you, David It's a pleasure to be here with you and on Amherst media good so I Know currently certainly a lot of your energy is being put into climate change and racism It's a big area for your work currently right now But you started out someplace different. You started out as a welfare case worker Maybe you can shed some light on that and what actually is involved in what you did back then Well when I graduated from college the Vietnam War was going on as a conscientious objector to the war I Had a two a two-year obligation to do alternative service and my draft board approved a stint as a welfare case worker in Pittsburgh And it was the first time that I had worked consistently in a black community and I got to be in a lot of homes and see people situations and hear their stories and Really came to understand more about how much racism Hits people and impacts their their lives and their and their families There was a group of white Vista volunteers in town who were organizing a welfare rights organization and friends of welfare rights and One of the really pivotal moments in my development. I think was a party. They invited me to one night Bunch of black welfare mothers Who I had previously felt distant from or felt like Maybe they wouldn't accept or welcome me They were so warm and engaging. We spent the night talking and dancing and having a great time together And it really shifted my perspective about how much people of different races Do belong together and can be united in caring about each other and working to make a better world Back in the days that you're talking about certainly my time to People of color were segregated. They were not Part of the overall community were very segregated which added to the obviousness of racism that was going on I'm sure you experienced that in Pittsburgh as well. Well, I did but the other thing I experienced was that there was a black community Right, and it was we white folks who were segregated from that. That's true didn't get to be with Those folks and enjoy the the life and dynamism of the black community One of the things that happened while I was there is the state of this was in Pittsburgh So the state of Pennsylvania threatened welfare cuts and we as welfare case workers knew fully how Devastating that would be to families And we organized what we think is the first ever picket line in which welfare case workers and welfare recipients marched together On the same picket line in downtown Pittsburgh to oppose the welfare cuts. What happened the cuts were postponed and Eventually We didn't get benefits raised the way we wanted to but we were successful Good that sounds really interesting. So at some point you started to transition to being in the education field Can you talk about that but you have a long history as an educator? Both as a teacher Among other things and as a principal. I know my children have had you in various capacities over the years But can you talk about that a little bit too? You don't have to Heavily expand but I'd like to know about that part of your life Well, I started out teaching in Groton. I was a kindergarten teacher first and After a while, I taught in Newton and a multi-age second and third grade classroom and Newton was participating in what was then the Metco program Which was a program that busts inner city Boston students out To cities like Newton. So we had a racially mixed class and It was it just felt like a real privilege to get to work Day after day with a mixed group of children and to help them build relationships with each other and Then I worked up once I became a principal I was first a principal in Shelburne Falls and Realized that these students had very few experiences with people of color at all But I was able to set up For at least one for our fifth grade. I was able to set up a sister school relationship With the arena school and holy oak And we took our fifth graders down to holy oak and spent a day with them They came up the Shelburne Falls and walked through town and had activities together and it was you know, it was a small step, but it was So rewarding to see young people who had had no experience with each other Quickly build relationships and come to like each other and be more interested in each other's lives. I Often think that small steps lead to big steps So I think that's really important that that went on and eventually you moved here I I ended up as the principal at Fort River school And had been told By a few families of color that there had been some issues around race So in one of my first newsletters to the community I said, you know I was interested in our being a school that was committed to racial justice and that if there were issues we would try to deal with them and Then I invited Parents of black children or children of color of all kinds To have breakfast with me one Saturday and I heard a lot of stories about things that had happened But and it was easy of course for me to listen to them because I bore no responsibility What happened up until then later it got a little harder sometimes But I had white parents come to me and say we didn't have any problem with racism till you got here And it was you know black families hadn't felt the had the space To share What had been going on for them? But over time we had a wonderful faculty and the faculty and the community worked together We established procedures for dealing with incidents of racism if they arose And really took an educative approach and found that over time we really built a more integrated racial community in the school Then I think existed or maybe still exists In very many places among adults right even in Amherst. Well, you know having Two children of color myself I Appreciated what you did it was really important for that to happen at Fort River Hopefully is carried over to the other elementary schools as well, but I think it was an important step for sure I think the other schools are Do good work right in that regard as well, right? So when did you actually start? teaching about racism where was it more sort of what you did as opposed to like an actual Teaching situation with racism. Well, I think at Fort River. We Realized that if we were going to be successful and what we were trying to do about relationships The children needed to know more And one of the things we found for instance was that the curriculum materials about Africa Tended to focus on so-called primitive Were traditional ways of living? And it communicated at impression of For one of a better term backwardness In Africa that didn't reflect the traffic jams and computers and things that were going on in in urban areas so we really worked together as a as a staff to Shift the curriculum so that if we were looking at another culture we looked at the most Technologically advanced aspects of that culture as well as some of its traditional strengths Let's talk a little bit about climate change and we'll talk eventually about How the two interconnect climate change and racism? but when was your first maybe not first but When you started to become really active in the climate change Discussions for your own self and so on well I have to admit I was a little slow to come fully to climate change my wife and my daughter led the way and in our family and Over time I came to understand that they Really had their finger on something very important I think Hurricane Katrina when it hit New Orleans Played a big role in my understanding More about climate change, but also about how climate and race interacted I Remember a piece I read that said you know The the natural disaster Was one thing it hit everybody, but the unnatural disaster that followed it the inability of People of color in the ninth Ward to get out of New Orleans when the storm was coming The racism of the police departments not allowing people of color to cross a particular bridge that would have led them to safety the The scene and of one neighborhood after another just being destroyed and I went to New Orleans school vacation week to Participate in some cleanup. This was April. So this is months after the storm hit and The ninth Ward was still completely devastated. I mean it It reminded me of abandoned bombed-out villages from pictures of the war Whereas the French Quarter and Bourbon Street looked like nothing had happened because money got spent immediately of course, there was also some very serious issues with the Stadium that was housing people who needed a safe place to be where there was Water was at a premium or food or other issues like that and a lot of the folks that were there were people of color They had no place to go. They wanted to be safe. And so the stadium was opened up I Think that didn't help and it didn't help that the president at the time was declaring how wonderful his FEMA director wasn't dealing with all these issues and That was obviously not the case. Well, it's one of the classic ways that we that we've dealt with racism in this country Is to have white people say things are fine And not to listen to the voices of people of color and I have to say I don't claim to be You know inherently Brilliant about racism or to have lived the experience what I Learned fortunately for early early on was that if you really want to know what's going on you have to listen to people have different experiences than you have and as School principal in particular. I was fortunate. I got to listen to a lot of families just as I had as a welfare case worker and I Think that's one of the things that those of us who are white can can do with regard to racism is figure out how to listen to people of color and Sometimes we find out that what we've been told is a lie and the truth is different At some point and certainly this goes to some extent to your blog which is on climate change and racism You started to put the two together at some point Climate change is still a major issue. It's not going away and currently what's going on our country a lot of people most Believe what's going on, but there's others that don't can you connect the two for me? Can you talk a little bit about that and how you put them? Maybe we've covered it a little bit But well the the easiest clearest connection is that people of color are being disproportionately impacted by climate change all around the world and Katrina's you know one example it It hit the lower ninths award the hardest Because people were living people of color were living in more vulnerable Locations and that's true in many places around the world And they had the fewest resources to recover afterwards and hit racism in the recovery effort in the way FEMA worked with them And this is pretty much the story around the world People of color other marginalized people tend to be hit the hardest and then because of a History of racism or colonialism and imperialism. They have fewer resources to recover And I mean the classic case of course is Puerto Rico right after Hurricane Maria It took many many months before Electricity was even nominally restored to everybody and and the island is still suffering correct and That's that's Puerto Rico. That's part of the United States And that you know is repeated around the world In a more severe way, so that's that's the biggest connection and obviously the reason that Puerto Rico was so damaging was the hurricane which had a lot to do with climate change to even have that happen Exactly, and there's no question about it. I mean you don't need to have You know any kind of eyes to see that that was clearly what was going on and to acknowledge that Yeah, the what the scientists say is that for any particular storm You can't say it was definitely caused by climate change But the tremendous increase in both the frequency and the severity of storms is without question And on a firm scientific basis the result of climate change so there's no question and You know at this point If the figure is about 24 million people a year are displaced from their homes by catastrophic storms Now where does that happen? primarily in Africa in Asia and in Latin America and So we in the United States partly because racism tends to Blind us or make us less attentive or caring about what's happening in the rest of the world Have been slow to respond to climate change because we haven't fully understood what was going on It's very clear in Africa or India or Latin America the effect the climate change is having on people's lives and their displacement from their homes and agricultural disruption that makes it subsistence farming unreliable But We have I have a real belief that Human beings are inherently connected to each other. Yes, and that we love the natural world And feel connected to it and that a great many of us love people of all races and backgrounds around the world and I think if we can face the information of what climate change is doing both in the natural world and to our fellow human beings around the world That we have the potential to make a difference. It's not too late Humanity can come together to solve this problem But frankly one of the things that's difficult is that we have so many feelings about looking at it It's horrible. It feels overwhelming. It's scary And You know, we've sort of been trained in this society to think oh, you're not supposed to feel those feelings, you know Take a pill distract yourself. Whatever. I think the only thing that's going to work is for us to Understand that we have to look at things that are painful We have to look at things that are going to grieve us and scare us Because if we don't we aren't going to be able to know what reality is and we aren't going to be able to respond And you may know the ways that we need to and you may not have a plan at 100 years or so down Exactly One of the things I read recently on this issue sort of climate change is farmers in the Midwest and the farming communities out there have been ravaged by flooding So bad that their crops are being affected very badly by it. They says the worst flooding they've ever seen ever and it's destroying their fields to produce food Which could eventually become an issue where Either it's too dry or it's too wet and it's all I think connected as we've talked about with climate change Yeah, absolutely, and it's gonna have a very disruptive feeling on All of us because we're interconnected as you say, but it has a lot to do with our food sources Temperatures are going up dramatically people across the European continent probably here are somewhat dying from the heat because it's so overwhelming Yeah, what's going on and this is part of why I think racism is key It's a global problem. Yes, and we're going to have to come together as a world to solve it And right now I think racism is one of the things that's most in the way of that happening Another way it plays out in the United States is in our in our politics And this is not just Trump. This is I understand certainly the Republican Party primarily but not exclusively Has for many years manipulated racial fears and resentments in order to elect more right-wing politicians Well, who is it that's getting elected people who? Deny climate change But also people who don't want the government to play a significant role in the country They see the government as the enemy. They want the government to be smaller Well, the government is the way we deal with things together. It's the way we build roads We build bridges. We build airports. We help eradicate disease All of those things. That's how we work together climate change is this huge problem maybe more a bigger problem than humanity has ever faced and We are more gonna need to work together than we ever have in the past and it's going to take government to do that So the way racism is used to manipulate the electorate to elect politicians Who are standing in the way of what needs to be done about climate change? Is really a key way in which Racism is making things worse not just in the United States But the role the United States is playing with regard to the whole world I know the Paris climate accord isn't the total answer But just having to pull out from that was not a very good thing in terms of the entire world who's committed to that accord and Provides a framework for the possibilities of climate change and we decided to pull out and that was one of the part of the Issues that we're talking about. Yeah, I think the I mean the Paris Accord was not everything we need Right, but for the first time the nations of the world came together and agreed on something That was totally in the right direction And we need to do everything we can to reverse that decision as rapidly as possible in the United States And to have cities and towns and states take action where the federal government won't We have a you know, the United States has cumulatively emitted more greenhouse gases than any nation in the world China's so big that they find the caught up with us, but our per capita emissions are still more than twice China's so we you know, the United States really got rich in three four four major ways We enslaved Africans. Yes, we stole land from the indigenous population with an attempted extermination We extracted wealth from all of the developing world and we burned fossil fuels Burning fossil fuels was a key piece of the United States becoming rich But its effect is now destroying the climate for the whole world no question and one of I think one of the the big challenges for our country is how to face the role we've played the role this has played in our wealth accumulation and take some responsibility for participating in the international solutions one of the things that I find sort of fascinating is this student movement the young folks who were getting out there and there was a Walkout, I think it was in March if I'm not mistaken not just here in this town but all over the country Where the young people are starting to realize what's going on and becoming to some extent a forefront of This issue there was a young woman who we featured on one of the other shows called Greta Thornberg Who did a speech at the UN that just Every human being should see that speech. It was just absolutely incredible Well, you know Greta started a one-person school strike Last fall in Sweden. She went and sat outside the Swedish parliament and demanded action on climate change in less than nine months That strike grew the the one you referenced was actually March 15th 1.6 million Mostly young people all rallied and protested on the same day So whenever I get discouraged about climate change Like, you know if you can go from a one-person strike to 1.6 million In about nine months Now that doesn't just happen. That's a lot of young people doing very serious hard work organizing and communicating with each other But I think at this point it's clear the governments can't and won't do what needs to be done without Tremendous pressure and I think we in the United States need to play our role in building a large mass multi-racial movement To stop climate change And again One of the issues is going to be Can we deal and here we're talking more individual racism? Can we deal with our racism well enough to Create a movement that will in which people of color and white people will be able to work together I think it's going to have to be a movement takes that takes on both racism and climate change. I agree But we need a mass movement because the government can't do or won't do what it needs to do I think it won't and the fossil fuel industry won't do but we if we Build multi-racial coalitions and it's going to take those of us who are white are going to have to do some of the personal work and I think you and I were talking earlier one of the things this summer Amherst media is sponsoring a youth racial and climate justice workshop It's July 15th the 26th in the afternoons five days a week For young people and their allies young people of color and their allies Who are in middle school or coming into middle school or high school? And much of it will be located here at Amherst media, but there'll be all kinds of field trips We've got some wonderful college students with lots of youthful energy and expertise to help lead the group and Anyone who's interested could contact Amherst media or go on the Amherst media website I think it's going to be a really great program. It's Amherst media work by the way I know that D. Shabazz who was the president of the board of Amherst media and yourself Kind of overseeing this project of my can you talk a little bit about that? I know you're not actually doing the workshops well, I realized that The climate action now and the other climate organizations in the valley are predominantly white Yeah, and it seemed to me important that we have more voices of color in the movement So I've met with some of my friends of color and asked how they Saw the situation and what they thought needed to happen and the first thing they said is we want something for the young people of our community to have a sense of power and Understanding and connection to the natural world and that's that's really what this this program is about I think that that youth are sort of the Under-realized group that has enormous potential Just a backtrack for a quick second When the gun violence happened in Florida, I believe it was or not that's may not be true But the young people came out and there were drastic changes that were made or changes made in Florida About gun control issues. So young people have power and What they did about gun control was partly a message to young activists around the world about what was possible with regard to climate change I just had another quote by Greta Thunberg. She says, you know people want hope and she said When we start to act hope is everywhere so instead of looking for hope look for action then the hope will come I like it We have to stop at this point Russ. I want to thank you so much for being my guest I also want to thank Amherst media and the folks here who allow me to do this show And we hope to see you again at some other point. Thank you Russ, thanks very much