 Good afternoon I'm Elizabeth Sackler and I would like to welcome you to our 2015 series of states of denial the illegal incarceration of women children and people of color For those of you who know and for those of you who don't know states of denial is a continuing series Three in the spring and three in the autumn and we'll be ongoing until we no longer need it Once you are aware of the terror and torture within our prisons and jails Once you know that oh, there's some more people coming out. I'm so delighted. Hello. Take a seat Once you know that 70 million people post-incorcerated people can no longer Get any federal assistance housing Medicaid food stamps. No less jobs Once you know that children and I mean children 13 14 15 year olds are sentenced to life Without parole for non capital crime. They will grow up. They will grow old And they will die in prison Once you know the punitive use of solitary confinement The beatings and sexual assaults regularly committed and ignored Once, you know all of this and more you cannot but assist in Revealing and demanding change to the concentration camps that have disenfranchised entire populations in this country So I welcome you here today in this auditorium to learn and to Become activated. I hope for those of you who have friends who weren't able to join us This is going to be taped and will be online at www.brooklynmuseum.org slash EAS Video and you can see our hashtags above The month of March in addition to being a women's history month marks the anniversary month of the Elizabeth A. Sackler Center for Feminist Art It's our eighth anniversary and To acknowledge and pay homage to both We're offering three exceptional panels Three exceptional programs for states of denial This month today I've invited the new press to take the stage with the panel called burning down the house Rebuilding juvenile justice together It's by now burning down the house is by now Bernstein who's here Bernstein March 22nd Prison women and change a conversation with Ina get she Taifa Who is senior policy analyst at the open Center in Washington DC and Susan Rosenberg who some of you may know is a former? Political prisoner turned writer and teacher and a March 28th inside out Piper Kerman returns author of the new black Author of orange is the new black and she's going to be in conversation with Joe lawyer a man who survived years of prison and Solitary and he thrived actually to author the man who outgrew his prison cell and you can read more about all of those upcoming programs on our website Today in addition to our panel, we're going to have time for Q&A and then we will have a sale and signing of Nell Bernstein's book To round out the program For 25 years the new press year in and year out has published books grounded by the constitutional foundations of our country the new press books address racial inequity and our legal and penal system enriching Public discourse and helping us understand vital issues of our time I'm sure you will forgive me if I don't list the 661 books that the new press has published but there is a list of them outside, which you were Hopefully you will take and read some of them if not all of them There is no other publishing house thus committed and we are all in their debt And I thank you very much Diane walk down who is here their 2014 publication burning down the house the end of juvenile prison by Nell Bernstein is the focus of today's panel and Takes us Inside juvenile prisons the horrors of physical and sexual abuse solitary confinement life-altering trauma the sorry realities of reentry and Leading us to the obvious conclusion that this must stop To me reform is A meek word and it's an inadequate approach to the horrors that we're facing and My personal thank you to now for bringing us inside the walls That destroy our children for speaking out on their behalf and suggesting that what we need to do in fact is burn down the house I Thank you to the new press the Brooklyn Community Foundation and the Brownsville Community Center for co-organized Co-organizing today's program and panelists along with our author Our panelists include Jasmine Brown youth justice social worker raise hand Abdul Francis with Brownsville Renee Gregory our first assistant district attorney here in Brooklyn Krista Lawson Director Center for Youth and Justice and Our moderator today is Tanisha MacKarras Tanisha MacKarras joined Brooklyn Community Foundation as director of community leadership in June 2014 she has worked with foundation since January 2014 helping to launch and implement the Brooklyn insights Initiative in her current role. She is developing the foundation's core initiatives and grant-making strategies Previously she was director of programs and community engagement at Newark Trust for education director of community program for Penn Newark and Newark program director for the Sadie Nash leadership project Tanisha is a graduate of Rutgers University and has completed postgraduate training in Columbia's business school Social enterprise executive education program as well as the Robert Ford Johnson Foundation and creative Center for creative leadership executive education program. She is on the board of Sadie Nash leadership project Chad schools foundation and art and abolition Ms. MacKarras lives in Bedford-Stuyvesant with her sister Tamieka The pair are the subject of future HBO documentary, which I hope we will all watch another night in the free world Featuring young women activists Please join me in welcoming our Women activists to my right Thank you very much for being here looking forward So the lesson to me today is whoever wrote my bio deserves a hug from me and a paycheck. Thank you And whenever Elizabeth Sackler is the one doing your introduction. You are an incredibly lucky woman. So thank you so much, Elizabeth How we feeling today? Love my yeah, okay So we are about to have an incredibly beautiful but hard discussion And it takes a kind of love and a kind of community that when I say how you're doing I need you to respond like love and community. So how are you doing today? Alright, and so let's let that be the spirit that takes us to this conversation because what we want this to be is a Conversation, I am incredibly honored to moderate this discussion I'm gonna say really quickly for three reasons and then explain to you how the format of today's discussions is going to be one This issue is incredibly personal for me I've watched people in my own family be imprisoned and incarcerated and seen the direct consequences of what happened when they came back home To I've worked For several years with young people who were incarcerated in juvenile facilities across New Jersey And I've seen the most brilliant and beautiful and courageous young people have to fight for their spirits being squashed in a system That didn't love them Three I'm also excited And honored to be here is because I'm a part of a foundation the Brooklyn community foundation That is dedicated itself To commit to lowering youth arrests in the borough because we all need to take a role and Philanthropy is not short. It needs to use its resources It's political leverage its will and its platform to announce to the world that something has to be different and The Brooklyn community foundation has just launched youth justice as it's one of its leading priorities moving forward So those three reasons make me really I'm humbled but honored to be here too. I'm humbled. I'm humbled for one other another reason this book I know Elizabeth mentioned it earlier now created an incredibly honest piece of work Centering the experiences of young people who are in the inside and said one that they are experts and Shared their stories directly But then called us to move and called us to action and to have now here today to share To share with us why she wrote this book what this book means and what she's hoping it'll tell the world I'm incredibly encouraged and last this is a fly panel y'all So might give me a snap for that. This is a fly Because come on to do movement work We have to recognize that we have to honor when things are just fly and dope and in the spirit of what might feel So overwhelming you have people that bring an incredible passion and love and fears because everybody appeared looking kind of cute today too And so I'm encouraged to be with them And so here is the the way our panel is going to go and I'm gonna get started So one I'm gonna ask each of our panelists just to share a little bit about who they are to you if that's alright Say alright, and then they're gonna share what brought them to this work and Then we're gonna get into some questions I've had prepared my own questions for each of the panelists and then we're gonna open it up to question audience because that's where the Brilliance really comes in in terms of questions And so we're gonna open it up to all of you if that's alright say alright Okay, so we're gonna start with now share a little about who We're gonna start with now and everyone give her a round of applause to get her excited I always feel you need to introduce juvenile justice advocates the way you introduce like big football players during a big game You gotta get start screaming we need that encouragement. So we're gonna start with now who tell us a little bit about who you are And we're brought you to this work You know, I I'm not a writer first and foremost I guess I if there's one thing that's a consistent thread in my professional life. It's that I'm a listener I spent ten years editing a youth newspaper and several years before that Working in a group home working in a day treatment for emotionally disturbed kids and run away shelter and in many cases being part You know with the do-gooder instinct, but finding myself part of crushing institutions I think my real kind of epiphany moment was as editor of this youth newspaper during the 90s When my beautiful brilliant staff started getting arrested on the way to on the way to work and This this was happening already, but I was with them during the birth of the super predator which people here probably remember was a mythical creature with hoodie and a black face and No conscience no spirit no soul whom we were asked to believe Lived in the bodies of our teenagers and once that creature hit the scene, you know One of my kids stopped coming to work. He just said it. It was too taxing Emotionally to make people feel safe for 45 minutes along his route You know as I was listening to miss Sackler say once you know I think that's where I started as a writer. I was seeing both I Was seeing these beautiful spirits maligned and misrepresented and I was seeing this horrific treatment go un unquestioned and Once again naive. I thought if I could tell it People would be horrified enough Change and I'm gonna stop here, but I think the most horrific thing I learned in my reporting was that we have always known Since the 1800s when we first started to build buildings in which to keep our children against their will We have had investigations and exposés and indictments So I really appreciate the frame that we were given today now that we know what are we gonna do? You know I'm Christa Larsen. I'm the director of the Center on Youth Justice at the Vera Institute of Justice What brings me to this work? I am the child of a woman who cannot walk through the supermarket without stopping to talk with someone about some struggle They're having that was my lived experience Forever and I funneled that into a career in social work. I relate to that I also relate to the era of the super predator. I was in graduate school in Richmond, Virginia in the early 90s when it was a very segregated city and we were hearing these messages which did not relate at all to the young people who I Met every day in the middle school where I worked and in the family court counseling unit where I worked and That discrepancy has sort of continued to fuel my work that I don't recognize these these messages And the young people when you see them individually Hi, I'm Renee Gregory first assistant district attorney at the Brooklyn district attorney's office. It's a pleasure to see all of you What brought me here is the long story that I'm going to make very short. I promise In the middle 70s when I graduated from college. I started teaching I worked 16 years with what was then known the board of education and most of my teaching Experience was in Bedford Stuyvesant and in East New York I did some time as a school administrator not a principal. I have full respect for principals But I was in the district office coordinating staff development teacher training and after about 16 years, I think I was a little Frustrated with what I saw were the was the really the lack of Providing young people in public school with the education that they needed And so I decided first I take a sabbatical and when I was trying to think about what to do on my sabbatical I said, you know what I'll go to law school That way when I graduate from law school, I'll get out and I'll sue the board event for all the things that I know are wrong Of course, I went to law school and in my third year third and final year I interned at the Brooklyn district attorney's office and The first day that I was in court It was somewhat like the gymnasium or the cafeteria in a public school. It was noisy. It was dirty It was gritty. They were unhappy people and and so on and I thought this this okay This is where I belong like I can do this and I can also continue to help people because that was was was really my focus It wasn't about Prosecuting to lock up, but I had an appreciation. I guess having taught for so many years as to how people get to The criminal court building not all of the time Poor education is not always the blank to blame But I just felt like I I knew what this was about and what could what could I do to help people who were now here? Good afternoon everyone My name is Jasmine Boo and I'm a youth justice social worker at the Brownsville Community Justice Center And how did I get to this work? Well, there are so many things that brought me to this work But mainly just my passion to serve young people in disenfranchised communities such as Brownsville For many reasons such as they're over and misrepresentation in the justice system And just want to be able to create innovative programming that will render services Fill gaps and be able to provide support in order to reduce recidivism How y'all doing y'all, how y'all doing out there? My name is Abdul Francis. I'm born and raised in Eastern York You know, I was just like I cost already about a year ago for a little stupidness in school when it's in that and Otherwise, I've been in the Brownsville Community Center. It's been treating me real good lately You know, I've been having job and been going to school lately. My grades have Increased rapidly. So Thanks to Jasmine, you know, I just been on a roll Yes for a great great increasing rapidly y'all better give up So I will just prepare you gonna be laughing at me as the day go the night goes on or day goes on because I end up stomping My feet snap in my fingers whenever I feel moved. So laugh or join it. Okay So we're gonna start with now There was a many things that I'm incredibly powerful You talked earlier in your introduction about how we already know it's what are we gonna do and What you talked about in your book is we know that Incarceration for young people for children for all people but for children particular is incredibly traumatic in particular because what's so important during adolescence is Positive relationships and connection. So we know this but then you talked about this cycle that we go through We go from revelation to reform to recidivism Can you talk a little bit about what you're trying to get this book to call this country to call everyone that reads It to do that's different than the cycle Revelation reform and recidivism that often happens when we already know the truth Yeah, that's I mean, that's a really profound question and I I'm so I can't honor or hopeful when I hear things like We're gonna start intervening and not arresting kids as opposed to we're gonna start rehabilitating them or We need to burn the house down not we need to fix it I thought that was gonna be a radical and challenging idea that was gonna hit a lot of resistance But it turns out that it's It's so commonsensical that I that I haven't found that I think your question was what do I want to have happen? Okay We know that the institutions where we keep our children are dangerous and destructive and often Just kind of suck the life out of them, but I don't think we know yet that these are our children I think that that once you put someone in an orange jumpsuit and put a label like offender or delinquent on him Or her it's very easy to start thinking of that person as a different kind of child And as I travel and speak I'm always so thrilled when a young person is With us because honestly, I feel kind of awkward speaking for you And for that reason in particular, I'm gonna try to be brief but I'm also the mother of two adolescents and They're for 14, so they're just kind of entering Actually, it starts really early, but I Always share a couple of statistics and then I stop with statistics 90% of all American teenagers in confidential interviews Acknowledged having not only broken the law, but done something serious enough that they could have been incarcerated And although that seems high if you take a moment look back at your teenage years your teenagers It kind of resonates, right? but my kids aren't getting arrested and The kids that I met in Brooklyn were getting arrested During stop and frisk outside of the rehabilitative institutions to which they had been assigned under a reform movement So I think when we understand that 90% of kids are delinquents then There's no avoiding Understanding that there are kids. They're no different. They're just tracked differently I think it was Glenn Martin who said this at an event in New York a few months ago But we already have the greatest diversion program imaginable and it's called being white and it works and it doesn't just work to divert it works to rehabilitate because you leave a kid alone In most of the circumstances for which we incarcerate him and he grows out of it So I guess that's a message that I'm really trying to communicate that there's actually no such thing as a juvenile delinquent Not if 90% of us are a word juvenile delinquents It's a developmental phase and I think once we can see that and once we can see the humanity in The kids were locking up and the tremendous Loss that we're incurring by suppressing that humanity then maybe maybe we'll take what we know and Create lasting change not just a cycle of reform So I'm gonna turn it to my right now to Jasmine One of the things we had talked about during our prep call is we need some more love for social workers y'all And so I'd like for you to talk about the Brownsville Brownsville Community Justice Center I'd like for you to talk about what your work is And what why it's important to reimagine the way that we treat and talk to it to treat and deal with young people Absolutely, so Being like a direct service provider actually on the field working with these young people both inside of the detention centers and outside of the detention centers One of the things that's most salient to me is the fact that they experienced so much trauma Prior to offending and I believe it's so easy for us to become reductionist It can we can reduce them down to their offenses and that further victimizes them And so even in these detention centers is so easy for them to be retraumatized and what I find is that we don't we never really deal with the root of the issue and so the quickest way to get to the top of something is the first deal with The bottom of it and understanding why they exhibit these Externalizing behaviors and so that's just something that I've been committed to doing at the Brownsville Community Justice Center Just working with them on an individual basis And that's why these programs are so important because it gives us the opportunity to do so And with that I'm always always always super excited to talk about the Brownsville Community Justice Center Because I absolutely love what I do and we have been being able we have been able to make some Do some really really incredible things particularly With our alternative to incarceration program and so with that well how many people know about Brownsville Anybody in here know about Brownsville a lot of people know about Brownsville. Well, that's awesome So Brownsville is not very far from here It's a few miles east of here is no more than less than two square miles of space and is the largest Concentration of public housing so that says a lot right there even in itself And so it's really really easy for the people of Brownsville to feel isolated and not having access to all the resources and opportunities that the surrounding communities do have and so with our program we understand that You know reducing the incarceration and getting their cases dismissed is the first priority But it just simply cannot stop there And so what we've been able to do is really create some groundbreaking programs in which we can have these young people to Be involved far beyond when their mandates have ended and with that I believe about 75% of the young people that come in contact with us They continue on a voluntary basis and that speaks volumes because it goes to show if they just give if they're just given an Opportunity that they actually sees the moment. And so that's what we have here with this young man Abdul Francis Who's actually one of my participants We've been working together for a really really long time and he has been doing absolutely phenomenal So it just goes to show that the work does matter and sometimes we get overwhelmed And we don't know actually what kind of difference we're making but here's a prime example right here, so So Abdul's been put on the spot, he's like you are a prime example Can you talk a bit about what it what it's meant for you to be a participant at the Brownsville Community Justice Center? Well, you know, I like coming in, you know, I mean, I only called it really to get out of trouble I mean I've been really never had a child as a kid, you know I've been selling drug at a young age. There's really nothing different between me and y'all really So I try to push myself higher, you know Be out there be more different from people people like oh right now, I don't really do this dress-up joint But I look good in it though I try to be out there, you know, I try to go to school more When I was locked up, I really never went to school or nothing like that, you know, Joe's Up there is really Something, you know, it's different. So I'm not gonna really get into all of it, but it's different. So I just I'm glad that I Made it out there, you know And for all y'all young people out there is trying not to get in there, please Certainly, can I ask you a follow-up question Abdul So you talked about how there's something different happening at the Brownsville Community Justice Center Can you point out one thing that's happening different that you see a lot of your peers not getting? That you would like to see more of for every young person Instead of getting straight up locked up when I like to see with them The people would show, you know, they had you see opportunity They in front of you don't throw the weight in face Brownsville's I don't really associate with Brownsville I used to live in a little but I don't remember too much about it I live in Eastern York right now You know kids out there they it's too much games and too much game violent. It's game by anyway, but It's most games. They don't care really they still as I work with them You know, they still fighting each other when they get out the program I mean, I'm in an intrapreneur program because it's different programs in the level I'm in the intrapreneur. I mean, I'm working on the business right now, but um Some people don't know what they're missing. They just want to leave the program early I mean, I come there for the money and I come there for you know, the experience for the knowledge I mean, I don't know what's more that they want. I want everything. So I've been too too much. I know that's right He said I want everything. I love it. Okay, so I'm gonna I'm gonna flip it over to Renee now So Renee, you know when a Brooklyn Defender DA Ken Thompson came in he just represented so many progressive ideals one of them Saying just straight up out loud that we need less of our young people arrested it in systems And so I'd like for you to talk a little bit about sort of your work at the DA's office And then specifically to talk about something called project reset Yes district attorney Thompson is very Encouraging I think to the Brooklyn community and and actually with with marijuana policy, which I'm not you know Going to go into detail because everyone's shaking their head and they say yes It they know what that is and what happened and ultimately what happened city-wide as a result of mr. Thompson Starting the ball rolling so that These arrests were no longer arrest. They weren't clogging up the system there was an opportunity for young people not to become engaged in the court system and it did by no means meant that he encouraged the use of Smoke in marijuana, but it just needed to be addressed that situation in another way Besides being processed through the court system At the district attorney's office, and I'll just speak very briefly we do have several diversion programs and one of them is For gang members who have committed serious felony offenses. It's called project redirect and These are young men who have been involved in gang activity and as a result have been arrested and say and face Excuse me very serious upstate jail time but based on Conversation with the court and their attorneys and our office and the young person themselves There's usually and a desire To to make a change and when that is so indicated This is someone who can participate in a project redirect and I have to tell you that over the last Year and some months that I have been supervising a project redirect We have had and we and they've always had the project is not new but they've been great successes I mean I've attended graduations of young men who are now Electricians or in construction not off the books, but a part of a union There's a young man who finished two years of college here and now will be attending College for the remaining two years upstate So when given a chance give provided with mentoring Provided with counseling through social workers like Jessica Good great things can happen, you know, but of course it Takes a lot of funding as well as a lot of energy Because what happens with those young men is their visits to their schools visits to homes visits visits to their Workplaces to make sure that things are going well But I want to just take a moment to talk about project reset because this is a Diversion program for 16 and 17 year olds who've been arrested for the first time and There was an interest in not having these young people who were arrested on nonviolent misdemeanors to become engaged in the criminal court system not to have to come to court at all because I'm not going to say that a touch with coming down to to the courthouse Is going to change someone's life completely, but it can we know that it can impact about what a person thinks about themselves when they get down to the courthouse and you have to go through metal detectors and you have to wait in court and See a judge and so on So this is a pilot program Which is currently active in the 73rd precinct, which is Brownsville and the 25th precinct at East Harlem But that's the out of the Manhattan DA's office and what happens is that if a 16 or 17 year old is Arrested on a nonviolent misdemeanor pettit larceny jumping the turn style and Some of the delinquency that now you mentioned that we 90% of us have have all been involved with They have an opportunity and they're arrested in the 73rd precinct now They have an opportunity to go to the Brownsville Justice Center and attend two after school Sessions where it will be determined by a wonderful person like Jessica whether it will be community service youth court group discussions individual Counseling sessions now. They're only obligated to two After-school sessions and if they complete those two after-school sessions Then the arrest is sealed and they never have to come to court So this program is an is an effort to divert or deter young people from becoming actively Engaged with the criminal justice system, but I know you mentioned it what? the additional hope is that when they're there they catch the fever like Abdul did and that they stay around and You know get more have more services provided become active Activing the community service and the art projects and so on so that there's something for young people to do now This is a collaboration between the district attorney's office The New York City Police Department and the Center for court innovation And at any time I just want to put this out there when this program is offered To a young person they always have the opportunity to reach out to one of the defender services Or their own attorney if they have questions about it. So we it's a full comprehensive Project that we hope after the piloting in the two precincts Now will will go city-wide. So when you hear the words project reset You'll you'll know what that is It's it's really an effort to reset that person back to the status that they were before Whatever happened happened so that they're able to take responsibility for their actions and Understand the consequences of behavior because that's very important for young people and then move on towards future successes Thank you, right what I appreciate so much of this being a pilot is that the potential is for this to be city-wide Y'all hear me this one saying potentials to be city-wide right and so I think what we have to consistently doing and now This is just many in our last conversation is we can't just think of something as just another alternative that goes flat As soon as the issue is no longer sexy if y'all hear me and so I think there's a Conversation about how do we make sure that we create enough support so that folks pay attention and so that when success Happens that that it is it is a reason a clear explanation To make sure that this is something that sticks across the city It's not just a one-time deal and so one of the really important things also about burning down the house is you go in many talk In many different states about the challenge of the juvenile justice system and one of the things that we all know up on this panel No, many folks know in audiences. We got a problem in New York we have a problem and You talked a little bit about criminal responsibility being right now at the age of Florida at 16 so in New York We are one of only two other states in the entire country that charges children at the age of 16 as adults One of only two states So we have a problem right and as we think about new models and the outcomes of those models really showing Success is that we have to organize for something different to happen in our state So Krista you've been working really strongly around the raise the age campaign Vera has been an incredible partner with this Commission Can you describe the work of the Commission and the work to try to make sure that children don't get charged as adults anymore in New York? So ten inches exactly right We're one of two states that automatically considers young person an adult in the criminal justice system on their 16th birthday It's regardless of their offense So in contrast to you know other states where you are in other Circumstances where you hear about kids being tried as adults. That's not what we're talking about for 16 and 17 year olds all of them in New York go to district attorney's offices like Renee's Not all of them are quite as progressive In having some of these options for young people. So last year in his state of the state address governor Cuomo Said and I quote said it's not right. It's not fair We must raise the age and he charged the Commission on youth public safety and justice Not with whether New York should raise the age But how to develop a plan that really looked at the comprehensive needs of the juvenile justice system and adolescent justice in the adult System to look at where the problems were and where the challenges and where the opportunities were to include 16 and 17 year olds under juvenile jurisdiction But also to make improvements in the juvenile justice system that would benefit all young people not just those 16 and 17 year olds So for 16 and 17 year olds right now in New York when they're arrested by the police The police have no obligation to contact their parents to let them know that they're in custody They have fewer opportunities outside of describe outside of programs like Renee just described to have Diversion opportunities or appropriate services which they are more likely to get in the juvenile justice system and they face the Possibility of adult incarceration both pre-trial with young people being held in jails like Rikers Island But also they can face state prison time in other parts of the state so what the Commission did was look at Basically everything from arrest through reentry looked at what's going well looked at national practices and scholarly research that could inform a Comprehensive plan to transform juvenile justice in New York State and issued their recommendations In January and the governor has accepted the recommendations in full, which is really important because The the report really does focus on this in the importance of these light touches for minor offenses and about three quarters of the young people who get arrested as At 16 or 17 have these not and violent misdemeanor offenses or nonviolent felonies that can can be handled through services Pretty easily so Not that the work is easy, but we can think about them in a different through a different lens, especially given this 90 percent Statistic so what this what the Commission's plan in total would do is pull about 86 percent of the 16 and 17 year olds who are currently charged in the adult court and Pull them into the juvenile justice system where the plan increases funding for community-based services to keep them out of custody It requires parental notification for 16 and 17 year olds so that the police have to call a parent If a young person is in custody and it bans Adult custody for any minor in the state of New York So in the whole it's a really important sort of comprehensive look the governor introduced it in his budget legislation For this year, which is moving through the legislature right now And so we'll probably have an answer in the next few weeks about whether New York State is going to take This on this year and make some real change for these young people Thank you so much Chris. So I know I'm going to say something that I know that many of our folks on the panel Can't say raise the age is about to go down in the next budget process in a couple of weeks y'all hear me and So I'm gonna say something I know I can't put put people on the spot to say but I'm gonna say it so say Tanisha say it Okay, y'all clearly don't want me to say it say Tanisha say it raise the aid is going in the budget process March 23rd and Their assembly looks like they're in support and so does the governor But we might have some problems in the Senate So I'm gonna say is and this is a no disclaimer because I know I'm not speaking for folks here up on the panel But what I am saying is we need to call we need to talk and we need to organize Because we we have time in the next two weeks So I call on everyone to look at raise the age New York dot dot or To find out more information and what you might be able to do and the quick talking points that we have We know that this was this legislation is not the end all or the be all But we have to have a multi-pronged approach to making sure that we live in a state that treats our children like human beings This is one step if y'all hear me say I hear you Is that right sorry panel? Sorry. Okay, so you know, sometimes you got to say stuff. You got to get permission So we're about to open it up for some discussion And I know I've got some people in the audience that have some questions And so I'm gonna ask one final question To to both Abdul and now and we ask folks to line up here at the left if you have questions if that's all right say all right Okay, so I'm gonna see some lines going up on the left-hand side one of the things I think is critically important is Now you talk really earlier on the book it of You say this really important statement that you learned from someone at the KC Foundation and you said if it was if it was our child if we were to close Our eyes we would not deny our own children the very freedom that we see thousands of children around this country being denied The feelings of trauma the kinds of sexual and physical torment that they go through every day But if we all pictured them like they were our children We would have the courage and the will to do whatever it took to save and to love them the way they all deserve one of the Most beautiful ways you honor the young people in your book is you center their experiences You make them the experts and you even I'm not gonna give everyone a Sneak a sneak preview because we're gonna get the book, but this is direct accounts from young people I'm gonna ask you really quickly Why is it important for us to make sure that the young people who directly? Experiences every day are the ones who are actually telling us the stories and Leading us and then I'm gonna ask Abdul the same question I never thought of it in terms of my making young people the experts. It's just that That's who I've always learned the most from with all due respect to the tremendous academics and researchers and Dilettants like myself the deepest truths that I've learned have come from from young people and One thing that's really important to me So I think there's sort of two two ways in the book in which young people rise I don't know who came up with this phrase But the the idea of the two-foot drop from the head to the heart that we can know something in our head But until until it happens to my child or unless I as a writer can make you feel that Connection with with somebody in the book. You don't feel it So that's one reason but I also it's very important to me not to sort of trot young people out to tell their sob stories and Then have me as the writer analyze them and say what they mean because In all honesty, I don't think I know better and one way in which I was really blessed Well, there's many ways in which I was blessed in writing this book, but Well, I just have to recognize the stills family who are here and who supported me through their foundation in hiring a Researcher young man named will Roy who had been incarcerated for six years himself and Because of their support I was able to bring him on to work with me on the book and he did two things Well three things he kept me honest He has this piercing gaze that just you know kind of pins you like an insect and the reason I had to hire him as I tried to interview him and He had sort of because he was quote-unquote articulate Become a poster child upon emerging from the system and was tired of tired of that role So he didn't let me interview him. He said I'm not going to give you my experience to do it as you will So I had no choice but to hire him. I Hear that I wasn't gonna let him go because he's He did these amazing interviews and they weren't just amazing because he had that shared experience to break the ice He asked questions. I I never would have thought of remember listening to a taped transcript of an interview He did with a young woman who was talking about The way that when I when a young woman in the facility where she was Became depressed and talked about suicide She would be stripped naked and a SWAT team would put her in an empty cell She talked about how girls who'd been there for a year or two would suddenly show up in pink jumpsuits Which indicate pregnancy and there were no young boys for that to happen and I remember will said to her You know, does it ever bother you that we talk about this stuff like it's normal? You know, you and I are just sitting here having lunch talking about this and we're not crying That was one of the many moments when I just woke up and he also he he honed my thinking Because he challenged and that's what I love about adolescence. Actually, he challenged things that I had never challenged For example, he would say what is the relationship between crime and time? Hmm, I mean, I don't know if anyone can answer that at some point We made a decision that when people young or old stepped across the line of the law We were going to sever all their human connections Put them in a room somewhere and make them pay in the currency of time And that's something that's so deeply ingrained in our thinking that we just don't think to question it But adolescents, you know, if any of you had any in your home, no question Everything and I think that that that's why their voices had to be first and foremost in the book Because I really did want to get beyond this kind of as you said cycle of reform and Institutional recidivism mm-hmm and young people ask the piercing questions When I was on my knees for two weeks in chains Because there'd been a fight on my unit and I would listen to the guards laugh and banter to pass the time This is one young man said I would ask myself. I thought he was gonna say how could they do this? I would ask myself. Where is God? You know, where is the God I was raised with and I lost my faith in that moment So it was those kinds of insights that made it essential for me to have those voices be have Be first and foremost in the book. Thank you now So I'm gonna flip the question and ask you the same thing Why is it important for us to talk directly with young people to listen to them and have us guide the way that we should think About changing the juvenile justice system You say about changing mm-hmm. Well, let's get a talk in there because we know No, we deal with it not even inside the jail outside the jail Say what you mean by that? I mean I live in Not leaving I'm going right back to the hood so I See if you you know me getting locked up every day my block on most bullshit. I see Gangs being up here. I'm just saying I see crazy being up every day And I mean I'm in the game, but I'm not really in the game. You know what I'm saying I'm blood. I'm not trade, but I don't really Put myself out there. I mean I keep it behind me if anything I think I always have to speak to my boss on the higher But other than that kid at the side I see young kids getting some of weed. I mean, I saw some we had Hey, I'm 13 or something. Mm-hmm. I see now and then I see kids and we that six They don't know if gave me like damn. How do you get to this yet? I mean you Same thing in there when I was like, um, it's a lot of day. I get provoked everywhere walking around I mean, I never really got bullied in there. Um Let me see what can happen. Um, it's a lot of things Yeah, I'm people when you people feel scared in certain places. They want to run away. You know, I mean and There because it's everybody on a back. I remember the whole one time the whole camp is trying to Beat me up because you know, I mean they it's like you snitch on there You snitch and approach it inside thing I never snitched with if you disrespect a certain staff and all that now the whole came is gonna come at you You know, I'm saying can he put headouts? It's crazy. It's crazy. Well, um, other than that It's gonna talk to him because they know the pain they feel and they know Who to relate to you know, I don't know. I really been locked up before what I Know to relate to y'all, you know, whoever been locked I've been do a lot of things, you know, I've been homeless for a year Been locked up the crib and all that A lot of things never really had a mom's. I just learned to start seeing my pops a few years ago. So Other than that, I don't really know what to say, you know What people really been through. I don't know. I know how to relate to kids. I tell everybody like Get out of this game like go to school do try to do because at the end of the day You know, it's we always gonna wake up on the corner store 514 no, I said mother with the same figure in your mouth, but you're not going to school, bro So I appreciate so the two of you actually said something very similar Which is the reason why the young people who have experienced being incarcerated in these systems We need to be listened and led by is because they're the only ones that are gonna keep us honest They're the only ones are gonna be able to tell us the truth and they are the only ones It's that's to what Jasmine is saying is going to be able to talk about the pain There is a conversation about trauma y'all that we need to have and Go ahead. I just wanted to add to that as you spoke. There's there's another reason which is that I Think that one of the primary functions of incarceration is dehumanization And that happens in two ways everything about incarceration is Dehumanizing your name is replaced with a number your clothing is replaced with a jumpsuit You're allowed like six belongings your time is regimented, you know kids March from school to lunch So it there's no concluding anything, but that it's custom designed to erode humanity We also know that not only is this not effective It's Criminogenic if you control for everything under the sign including the precipitating events being locked up as a juvenile doubles The chances that you'll be locked up as an adult So it's dehumanizing to the kids and it also is dehumanizing in terms of how we see them I mean I interviewed kids on the outside and I interviewed kids on the inside and it takes a while on the inside to get past You see a kid in shackles. He looks scary, you know, you see him Anywhere else and he doesn't so I think that The only way that we can continue with an intervention that we know and again, there's no question about this Doubles the chance that a kid is going to go on to exactly what we say we're preventing The only way that we can do that is not to see their fundamental humanity And there's nothing I can say that's gonna make anyone see that Only only by really listening to the kids and not just looking at the jumpsuits. Are we gonna see that humanity and You know, we've had a 40% drop in the number of juveniles behind bars over the past 10 years. That's pretty phenomenal but The prime driver of that has been the Great Recession And the fact that we could no longer afford to spend 80 to $200,000 a year to lock kids up And if that remains the driver at some point the economy is gonna Swing in the other direction and those empty beds are gonna fill up again unless we change the way we see the kids So that's the other reason why that's so crucial And also I'll just say you said something about before after and that was so incredibly powerful that there's a way that We can make young people feel like incarceration is inevitable before they even get locked up and the ways that young people within their own neighborhoods even in the schools that they attend and The way we begin to make them feel already like criminals and the way that time The way that what they have to wear how they're able to speak How they're able how they're told not to speak is starting to model a system that looks like they're more so Preparing them for jail than preparing them for a life where they can love themselves and have and feel like they're living with dignity Can I can I just offer a preview for an event that's coming up in a couple weeks? Joe loya who's gonna be in conversation with Piper Kerman is an old friend of mine and He also really pushed my thinking he started out Experiencing a lot of abuse and ended up in a shelter where he was you know stripped and deloused and put in a bunk And he went on to become a semi legendary bank robber I mean if you met him now that would be hard to believe he's a teddy bear But what he said was one institution prepared me for the next once I could see myself as institutionalized It it lost it wasn't scary anymore And it began to seem inevitable and I people are just starting to focus on the crossover between the child welfare system and The juvenile justice system, but it's also why I'm so heartened to hear people in this room talking about Not arresting kids not stopping it at some point later because I've had kids tell me that one night Changes the perception of themselves and again I think if we ask ourselves the one child question if one of my kids were locked up for one night I would lose my mind It's not okay with me, right and it shouldn't be okay for anyone's kid unless there is a Real and immediate danger and I've never I've never heard a conversation in a community that focused so much on stopping it Even before it started and I just want to recognize the Brooklyn for that. Well, you know Brooklyn We always try to be trendsetters But we got work to do Can I add just in terms of raise the age some of it does sound like it happens later But one of the things that we've seen in other states that have gone from setting the age at 16 Or even moving it from 17 to 18 is that arrests drop There's something that's fundamentally different about how the young people are viewed Even beyond the sort of normal decline because we're seeing arrests decline nationwide and in those states But the drop after raise the age reforms was even it was about 30 percent lower Then it would have been following that trend So it speaks to this point as well even though a lot of the changes are technical and happen post arrest It does seem to have some in other states and We use New Yorkers like to think of we're different not not just Brooklyn, but all New Yorkers, I think But there does seem to be a trend that it affects arrest as well So now we're gonna open it up for questions But I just want to say that as we're we're talking about Making sure this is not about incarceration or court diversion. This is about arrest diversion our kids shouldn't even be spending nights in jams Because the trauma as you were mentioning of arrest is so great To be first of all y'all for a moment some of us have experienced in this room Just imagine what it's like to be taken away from your family to not be be allowed to call your parents To and I'm talking about think about this as your own age right now To not to be allowed to call your family folks who can support you and help you through it to them We put metal cuffs on your hands and put metal cuffs on your feet and then to not know where you're going to be Transported not know how long you're gonna be there and then to show up to a courtroom We're a lawyer and a judge is saying a bunch of things you don't even understand now imagine you are 16 years old Our children don't need to be in those positions Period and we have models and opportunities and DA's office and organizations and young people and Authors prepared and organized, but there's something called implementation advocacy It's one thing we gonna do it But we need to figure out how do we support the allies are in positions and places of influence and power to make sure they get the support to Do it right if y'all feel me say I feel me. I just want to say I absolutely agree But when you talk about now addressing the issue of a young person who's got into trouble And we don't want them incarcerated. I mean them with we're leaving up side very very serious situations Where where are they going home to that needs to be addressed? Do those families have a support system? Absolutely, you know is is there a family? I you know I heard you mentioned that there was you know some some lack of support From family members and so we can't just look at individual pieces To this it has to we have to address these issues globally So that there there is the support for a young person who has gotten into trouble absolutely All right, we're gonna open it up for Q&A. Do we have any questions from the audience? All right So we're gonna I'm gonna ask you to to go to the left right here So I want you to say your name And then you can ask your question and then I got five I got one rule everybody say one rule It's called the five B's be brief baby be brief. Cool. All right. Thank you. My name is Matthew This is this question for district attorney. I was incarcerated as a juvenile as well as an adult So I do have experience and I do feel you bro. My question is this What is your experience of the ratio racism within your office? That's my first question and the second question is this how do you see? Or how do you view? incarceration as a sense of population control in the United States and in a sense modern-day slavery and Us being very PC and not saying that it's what it is on a day slavery Well, I mean I can speak for Renee and I and I can tell you that for the last 17 years that I've been at the district attorney's office Decisions that I've made on cases whether they've been for young people or people not so young have been based on on the what happened who the victim is and What's best for Public safety in Brooklyn because that's the ultimate outcome of all of this so in in terms of Racism I I have not experienced a Feeling within me that there should be a different Different way to address Persons of different races now I will say to you that when I started working at the district attorney's office as as a black woman a Woman who has a husband who's black and a son who was black It was it was troublesome to me that most of the people coming in and out of the courthouse On their cases were people of color black and Latino people, but again, I think coming from the then the board of education and having 16 years of Recognizing that there wasn't always the type of support Community support Support in the schools Shortage of guidance counselors and social workers to help families address issues Not as excuses Why there were predominantly black and Latino people in the in the courthouse, but it Contributed no Thank you, and I just wanted to add to that another thing. I was Glad to hear the sack was saying to hear you say is the word Racism because in the conversation about justice what we hear is racial disparities, which is a very different You know that could just be a natural artifact, but the reason that we need to talk about systemic racism is that what I found is that Systems have their own Imperatives and it's not really a question of the people in them being racist although that's an issue but When you wind up with numbers like I mean this is there's a I'm not gonna put Blacks and whites use drugs about equally a black kid is 48 times more likely to be incarcerated for a drug crime That there's nothing that can explain that away, and what I hear is I'm sorry to get it backwards. Thank you You're not related to the moderator Okay, so You know I'll talk to a really well-intentioned Black warden and I'll say you know I noticed that every single kid in here is black. Does that you know what he well? This is who I get District attorney's office you can only deal with who you get And Not always book ahead And you know even the police are assigned to patrol the neighborhoods that they're assigned to patrol Which is not in my neighborhood So I think it feels like passing the buck But I think that we have to start thinking not about systems and how to rearrange systems But insisting on outcomes and I'm just gonna give one quick example of how we can do that friend of mine in San Jose activists named Raj Jayadev Worked with the district attorney there the racial disparity The racial injustice there was so profound he convinced the DA to Impose a moratorium on juvenile strikes Until he could bring some racial balance into that. Mm-hmm. So he just said no this DA just said no I'm not gonna I'm not gonna charge strikes Unless all of you working in every system can do something to create some equity so I think the cross system accountability and Because you know that kid who's locked up with a bunch of other kids who look like him When the kid from across town isn't I don't know that it matters that much which Bureaucracy is responsible. It matters that it's that it's so You want to just I Don't disagree. It's not that we have to look at individual Bureaucracies, but they have to work together. Look again, as I said knowing what was offered to many students who are in school That is part of a system that that needs strengthening as well It doesn't by any means explain why There's as you indicated perhaps over policing in a particular neighborhood as opposed to Another neighborhood, but again, that's another piece. I get nervous when we start looking We start picking apart that the individual pieces instead of Right look looking to see what needs to happen globally Mm-hmm. And so and from what I'm hearing from folks in the audience I know you had a second part to your question for the secretary Children's defense fund calls it the cradle to prison pipeline that there are so many systems in the pipeline for when a young person is born that Unfortunately can end them into a trajectory of prison and oftentimes not often it happens in working-class communities of color And so why one are all those systems and the relationship that they have with each other there is an issue around structural racism and There and then and then the the challenges with the relationship that those systems have even with each other So we can't just isolate one system We have to look at all systems in the pipeline, but I'm gonna we're gonna move to the second question because I know we're in a time Thank you so much for your question. Yeah, so Right behind you we're gonna go next. Yeah For those of us who are short My name is Travis Morales And I'm a member of the stop mass incarceration network and a supporter of the Revolutionary Communist Party And I have a basic question great in listening to what Nell had to say and in reading these articles in the times about Look, it's just utter brutality and torture that they're carrying out Against everyone on Rikers, but you think about these are children. Come on. These are children That they're breaking their bones and they're torturing them And I think the I mean these are crimes against humanity, but my question is this You have I think if you pull back the lens the question is who is responsible what is responsible for putting our Children in a situation in the ghettos and abadios where they have no future. Did they bring in the drugs? Did they ship all the jobs out of the community to foreign lands where they could exploit people more viciously? I mean Renee Gregory made a point about the youth need to understand the consequences of their actions. Well Let's ask that question about who put them there with their only choices They have are selling drugs or some other criminal activity because there's no way to survive because these people don't have a future for our children and the other point part about that is You you think about What they have to go through day in and day out Where they have no future for them and they're not the ones who brought in the drugs And who was it that decided in the early 80s for a conscious Strategic policy in this country of the mass incarceration of black and increasingly Latino people We didn't make that decision The highest echelons of the government made that decision to mass incarcerate our children and part of that is is the criminalization and the demonization and the isolation and I ask everyone here when you go home look up on the internet Genocide read the definition of what genocide is and this fits that definition To a tee that this is what they're doing to our people and my last point is this You know they made this conscious decision in the in the face of two things one They had no future and they have no future for black and Latino children and two They remember the tremendous uprisings of people particularly black people in 1960s It shook this country to the foundations and put the fear of revolution in them And so they came up with this strategy of mass incarceration Okay, and the the question is what is it going to take to actually stop this and I will end with this And I would like people's response. Look this system has had 400 years to do right by black people and other People of color first there was slavery then there was Jim Crow segregation with police tear with with the KKK lynching and the terror and all of that and now there's the new Jim Crow of police murder Discrimination and the shooting down of our children in the streets, and I would say this they've had three opportunities Three strikes, and you're out. It's gonna take revolution nothing less to do away with this and in this So brother I appreciate you we can give you Appreciate people to ask questions and then answer it in the question. Yes But now wants to answer it anyway though with a little bit of a challenge Who's responsible who did this to them? We did We can't point at the people that we elected We can't ignore our own fear I think it was Jesse Jackson who said in one of the most tragic moments in his life is when he is footsteps behind him And he turns around and he's relieved to see a white person who among us has never clutched our purse Never crossed the street never shrunk in an elevator, and maybe I'm talking mostly to my white friends here, but The moment you do that you're telling a kid you're a criminal If you don't make this a litmus test when you vote, you know I mean tremendous changes were made around reproductive rights because people said this is a this is a defining line for me and Pardon me, but I do still believe that we live in a democracy and it also speaks to what you keep raising so Importantly, which is what are the homes that kids are going home to what are the neighborhoods that they're going home to and why are they so? profoundly under Resourced there's a concept. I've been wanting to introduce every time you raise that which is justice reinvestment Which says you don't take the money you save by cutting back juvenile incarceration 40% and throw it into the general fund To to balance the budget you reinvest it in the communities that have been devastated by mass incarceration I know and then you begin to answer some of your questions 47 and I think and I love social workers, too I was gonna be one, but I wasn't brave enough But I think more than having a social worker investigate a kid's individual family We also need to think about why there are community centers in my neighborhood, but are there in yours? Community centers rec centers that And these are things that we're all responsible for and on a really basic way those of us with More resources with privilege are gonna have to give some up if we want to see all kids have an equal chance So I don't think it's them. I think it's on us Here to roll shut shut off for st. Kofa. Thank you. My name is Raul I first like to start off by Defining the terms of the debate or the terms of discussion. I learned that in high school in forensics. It's a There's a difference between bigotry and racism a lot of people like to confuse the two you can be a racist without being a bigot And I would suggest that everyone who participates if you pay taxes is a racist in a racist system To the degree to which you fight racism you are not a racist But everybody who lives in this country is a racist because we participate in a system that keeps one race Superior to another which is the definition the institutional definition of racism So you don't have to be a bigot you can still feel good about yourself But understand that you are racist if you are participating in a system that holds one race superior to another That said my question is this the Ferguson report that came out last week Whitewashed as it was Mike Brown was murdered Speaks to I think a a To the system that exists on a spectrum Ferguson is at one end of the spectrum Every other criminal justice institution is on the other Black communities and brown communities are utilized to support a System that certain people think need to stay in place We employ judges and police officers and we over criminalize and over police certain people because we can and it justifies our jobs and our budgets and And and the security of our lives We have to begin to look at the criminal justice system and the way it's Brutalizing and and taking advantage of black and brown communities. It's doing that because it can because those communities are less power Powerful it was an article I read the other day where a US Marshal and DA agent came out a black one one of the few It said we weren't allowed to go after white communities who were doing just as much drugs because they knew politicians They were judges. They were lawyers. We couldn't start arresting their children So they're going to the opportunity that they can to take advantage of powerless communities if America wants to do right And this is my final point. I want to ask the question about how the criminal justice is The criminal justice system is on that spectrum of Ferguson. That's my question But I want to say this if America wants to do right and we want to do the thing that there are Different differing opinions. We've got to integrate communities We've got to live together as all Americans to think that we're doing that now There's economic bigotry that's going on right now and it mostly affects black and brown communities But if we're really going to integrate and be this one nation one for all type Utopia we're gonna have to break down the walls of racism and end even the definition of white and black People should look up where the word white was first used in British law 1681 to break up a people's rebellion called the Bacon's rebellion that was multi-racial Look it up. That's where white people have been defined You call yourselves white because you've been taught to call yourselves white by the 1% that decided to call you white in the law Look it up. There's a woman that talks about it. It's called birth of a white nation. Her name is battle aura It's on YouTube. Thank you But your question specifically I will was around where does so the DOJ report came out and We could talk about Criminal justice system as part of the spectrum got it of Ferguson was obviously using Jim Crow Sharecropping tactics on the North County communities in St. Louis period all of them all 93 of them Use it as a way to employ themselves I'd like to talk about the criminal justice system and how it's taking advantage of black and brown communities and exploiting them So they can keep a system in place that makes them feel safe hmm Which one my parents want to take that one? Great point, but it's kind of a Very well made. It's very well made. I know But maybe if I could what did Ferguson and if folks at a chance to read the DOJ report What did that also teach us about law enforcement in the criminal justice system in general and the challenges that we have Particularly around with structural racism But I think you said it and when you talked about being incarcerated on the inside and on the outside There's a sociologist Victor Rios who talks about the culture of control that young people Live with as they walk down the street as They go into their schools as they go into stores, you know even in their own community And I think there's no more kind of visceral image of a culture of control then body on the street without Without a cost and I think the other thing you talk about the spectrum of The criminal justice system the the other piece of that spectrum that it plays out Just brazenly is impunity. I mean we have something called the prison rape elimination Act which is a law that Not requires but encourages states to implement measures to reduce the number of children who are raped by guards But it's already illegal Everywhere else, right? And I do think this is related to your point there I tell the story in the book of a girl who Was arrested for her involvement in the sex economy And was told she'd be given counseling in an upstate New York facility and her counselor Made her describe in graphic detail what she had done as part of that work And then he made her enact it with him and there's this moment This was not my own interview. It was a human rights watch report But there's this moment in her story where the guy is raping her in an office and somebody else opens the door And you know you if your breath catches because you feel like there's going to be rescue and there's going to be justice and You know he acts like he's walked in on a sort of office affair I'm sorry. Excuse me. Excuse me And that's the moment the floor just drops out from under her because she realizes not only can this happen to me The person who is going to do it has total impunity and for me the moment the floor dropped out was when I was on a major National radio station talking about this and the really You know insightful wise interviewer said wait, so you're telling me somebody walked in on them having sex and just walked back out They weren't having sex She was being raped So I think that the same impunity that that we see in Ferguson Is lived every day Inside juvenile prisons and it tells the kids Not only that they're not valued and not only that life isn't fair But it also tells them you're not here because of what you did You're here because of who you are and nothing could be more morally corrosive than than that Hmm. Thank you. No, and so I think we might have time for one or two questions unless the Organizers tell me we have a little bit more time. We have two more questions right here. Hi there My name is Judy Komaki. I have a question about Preventions specifically in the high schools Donna Lieberman who's at the NY CLU they have successfully gotten a lawsuit passed on Stop and Frisk with the police The easy part she says is stop and frisk on the street Mm-hmm hard part is the police presence in schools where as you know they Arrest a much higher proportion of young black males and send them off to get arrest records So my question to both the author and to the moderator and to anyone else is What kinds of things are being done to prevent the arrests from occurring particularly in the high school? I had an opportunity to work in a high school in East Flatbush, Brooklyn Where I actually observed a principal who set up a safe supportive climate So his graduation rate for the school was 95 percent the arrests were very minimal if any and I think things like this might be really helpful in terms of legislation in Terms of models of how to prevent the problem from occurring in the first place So my question is do you talk about those kinds of things in your book and when you go to lobby for legislation? Is there any emphasis on trying to set up model programs? Implementation research to see what we can do to prevent the problem of arrests from occurring in the first place Love it. Awesome. So I'm gonna quickly respond because the Brooklyn Community Foundation is about to launch an initiative Now and we'll launch in next school year, but I think that's just a really powerful question So I just want to put out a couple of important facts for context one The NYPD currently manages the safety plans for all DOE schools in the city of New York The NYPD designs it and manages it. Do y'all hear me? So if the New York Police Department is responsible for working with the Department of Education on what school Safety looks like and the response to when kids break the rules. What do you think happens? So there is a there is a punitive model for discipline not a restorative one The reality is is that schools across the country particularly schools in white and affluent neighborhoods You do not have the same discipline responses kids in our schools across New York City and in Brooklyn are getting arrested For the smallest of things kids are getting arrested for not even coming to school How you gonna get arrested for not coming to school and then when you get to school You are then arrested for doing small things like a kid can get into a fight in the school yard and be 14 years old and get arrested in Bed-Stuy and So there's really interesting Opportunities and models that we're looking at the foundation one of the most important ones just right now is restorative justice the idea of working with a whole school to say Discipline if we love and want to support and also bring young people in the solutions around the challenges They face it has to be a restorative model not a punitive one And so there's all different kinds of really incredible ones operating across the country some here in our borough But what we want to do is really pilot this strong in high schools that have really high Suspension rates because suspension is a direct correlation to arrests kids are getting arrested in school And whoever gets suspended is getting arrested right next and saying instead of getting suspended and arrested for the smallest of things What are the kinds of counseling programs? What are the kinds of community group counseling programs? And what are the kinds of things that kids can be brought in in creating their own sort of ideas of resolving challenges They have in their schools And so we're about to pilot this restorative justice project with the hopes That we can make the argument with a community that will support us to say the DOE needs to change its discipline codes In schools and not arrest kids for things that kids in other neighborhoods would not get arrested for My name is Gabe, and I'm a social worker Okay, nah, nah, nah, nah, I said y'all gonna start treating people like it's the football game say that one more time My name is Gabe, and I am a social worker. I Just want to say it's really powerful to see a group of women and young folks talking about these issues and I'm curious about the specifics of Girls girls in the system Now you alluded to the increased risk of sexual assault and I'm just wondering about both the experience of girls in the system and Programming at Brownsville that's targeted towards girls. So I'm gonna pivot that to Jasmine Programming that's targeted towards girls So actually what we are currently doing at the Brownsville Community Justice Center Actually, what I'm currently doing is working to create programming for young girls They are my there is a really we look over them a lot And so trying to figure out ways to empower them trying to figure out ways to have them to be able to Own who they are as women and give them other opportunities because oftentimes it's focused so heavily on young man, which is awesome But we're working on trying to figure out a way to create some kind of summer Institution where young ladies can be able to come and be able to allow their voices to be heard and be able to figure out how To be activists in you know fight for things that they are really really passionate about so We too at the Brooklyn District Attorney's Office has a program Grasp as you know for young women most of the referrals are from either ACS or Family court probation, but it's it's with an emphasis on the unique Situations of girls because sometimes they are there are differences between what's going on with the boys and Girls so we have a program as well and we're just going to make a shameless pitch We're always we're always looking for mentors to Be involved in in the program. So if you have an interest, please let me know I Just I just wanted to also answer your question about what's different about girls a Lot of the sexual abuse that takes place behind bars It is actually young men who are victimized That's something that people but but prior to incarceration Girls come in with a very heavy load of trauma and victimization of all kinds including sexual So it's not just you know, are they going to get? Sexually assaulted, but they it's for sure. They're going to be strip-searched You know, they're gonna have to squat and cough whether or not they're pregnant They're gonna have to go through in one institution twelve pat-downs a day And these are retraumatizing to young women who have already Experienced that kind of trauma. The other thing is somebody is the word externalizing You know, it's a cliche, but boys externalize girls internalized So you give them the message that they're worthless and they will just eat that up like candy And that's the message that you get when you're when you're locked up and then when they express that through Despair especially suicidal despair they're again Traumatized sexually for some reason we have this intense desire to strip them naked before throwing them into isolation cells So I think I think even without something that would get categorized as sexual abuse The pre-existing trauma and the retraumatization retraumatization are more intense for girls And the one thing we can't do is make them invisible in the larger conversation around juvenile justice And so that's why I appreciate you highlighting it. They're not invisible. They're there Hi, I'm Robin Sampleton. I teach at Hunter's Roosevelt House for public policy I'm from Louisiana and serve on two boards of nonprofit community groups that work with Adults and young people and parents who come in contact with the juvenile and criminal justice systems So I'd feel remiss and well first I want to share just something that happened last week Most of you probably know that the education system and many systems serving communities hard hit by incarceration have just been dismantled in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, which we're now looking at the 10-year anniversary of and these systems haven't been rebuilt so charter schools Have taken over much of the school system. They have no accountability. They have their own rules they can't be held accountable by law and so students are routinely arrested at their schools for Failure to behave is the technical term they use behavioral malfeasance One charter school last week just unilaterally with no notice cut its bus system So kids who couldn't get to school were picked up for truancy and sent into the system, but I also want to talk about two organizations Families and friends of Louisiana's incarcerated children and a national group that was started by a woman Grace Bauer from Louisiana called Justice for Families and both of these groups work to support the parents of kids Who get locked up because the parents are also criminalized and they're blamed and they're lied to and They're disempowered Grace's son Went into the system at 14 for stealing a pack of cigarettes. He's still in it and and she was just directly lied to and so Just from this experience as a mom of a kid who's still in the system She's growing this national organization comprised of local organizations of parents who are becoming leaders and Advocates for their own kids and training other parents to be advocates to fight for national Reform and fundamental anti-racist change, but also to support parents who are equally traumatized along the way Thank you for highlighting that we need to talk about the families and the parents y'all And the love and support that they need often before their kids are in positions like this and then certainly after one room Really beautiful young person told me how come you only paying attention to me when I get locked up and So the same for families there needs to be critical need for support and resources and so thank you so much for that comment I think we're listening to a conversation that tells us we do not live in a civil society and I thank you all for coming and addressing it and I hope we all work toward it to improve it It's a horrifying And I thank you for all of the good work that is changing it But we've got to keep going and going and going there's a lot to do we're going to have a book signing up here So please let us set up the tables and you can come up. You can chat you can buy books You can have books signed by now and please let's thank this fantastic panel