 Aloha and welcome to Books, Books, Books. I'm your host, Mihaila Stoops, and my guest today is Susan Bradford. Environmentalist, author, political activist, psychologist, founder of Hawaii Lent Trust, and probably many other things that I didn't get a chance to mention. Susan just published a book, a memoir, called View from the Crow's Nest. This is basically her experience traveling the world when she was only 25 or so in the mid-60s. So Susan, thank you so much for joining me today. Yeah, it's fun to be here, Mihaila. Thank you. We've known each other for, I think, about a decade because of the great decision group under the umbrella of the Foreign Policy Association. And I got to know you through that group and more on a political level, I would say. I didn't get to know so much about you, particularly about your life experiences in your 20s. And I have two questions for you to start with. Okay. How did you get this idea? Well, what caused you to write this book? And secondly, not more of a question but a statement. I'm dying to know what you did after this whole experience. That's a common comment by people that have read the book. Yeah, well, I never meant to write a book. That was, I'm as shocked as anybody, more so maybe, that I even wrote a book. I came across about 10 years ago. I came across these letters that I'd written to my parents when I was 21 and I called them from Berkeley to say that I was gonna start hitchhiking on sailboats around the world and they went, you know what? And so we had a little meeting and one of their caveats, I mean, they weren't paying for it so they couldn't stop me, I was 21, but I wanted their blessing. So one of the caveats is that I would write these letters. So I, trying to soothe my parents' poor souls, I was pretty good at writing regular letters to them. And for some reason, I wrote extensive letters and then I asked my mother to keep them and she gave them to me like 20 years later and then I put them away and then 20 years later I found them again 10 years ago and I started reading them and I just started sobbing, getting to know this young woman who was curious and adventurous sometimes, wanting to understand the world in herself and figure out what to do with her life. And so I decided, I didn't know what to do with the letters but I decided to join a writing group. So I joined, every Thursday I went to this writing group, we had no idea, I'm just gonna play around with the letters and I went every Thursday for weeks and months and years and after a while I had gotten a lot together not only the letters, but the stories I didn't tell in the letters plus why would a 21-year-old woman do such a thing? I was pretty adventurous sometimes. So I had to answer those questions for myself. It was really a personal venture, just trying to understand myself. You're calling this person, her, as if it's not you, as if it's somebody else. And I mean, I realize you're looking back and you feel like, well, this is not me or it doesn't feel like me and this is totally me, but what are the differences between you and you at now and you at 25, traveling to the Solomon Islands and Papua New Guinea and Indonesia and India and the exotic place of Berkeley in the 16th, that was also exotic at the time. And you're traveling by, essentially by yourself, you make friends along the way, but you are by yourself. So you call her, you call this young lady, her and you say she likes to take risks, but she is thoughtful. Yeah, well, as I started to read those letters out loud myself from the tears started flowing and I became really curious about her. And I read, it was her because I wanted to know who she was. And the interesting thing is, as I became, as I came to know her better, not, you know, we have personalities and egos and things that we put out into the world. But I think that underneath it all, we often ask ourselves, who am I really? Who am I underneath, you know, under all this? And I began to see that that part of her was really still in me and hadn't changed. That part really hadn't changed that much. And so I called her her because she was that, she was my teacher and she was, that's why I dedicated the book to her and that part of all of us that's seeking the transformation and understanding. And knowing more than we already know. Is this book for fellow 20 plus year old women of today to get inspired? Well, when I wrote the book, I was really writing it for myself. So I didn't think of that until it became a book. And as it became a book, I realized that I would love it if people, if young people were at all inspired. I know it's a difficult world we're living in now. And if young people were at all inspired so far, mostly the people of the Reddit are people that I know and they're more my age. And for them, it's like, they all have stories. They all write and say, one, I want to hear more. And two, boy, that reminds me of all my adventures. And I'm hearing about it, jiking and sailboats and other people adventuring out in the world. So so far, it's really inspired older people, but I would love it if it inspired you. Well, we have some pictures and I'd like us to go through them before we get into more information about the book itself. So obviously this is a really nice picture of you probably related to the Hualien Trust, right? I was honored as being one of the co-founders two years ago. And so this was at that event. That's a Ola Henry Lulao. That's me and my mom. I couldn't have been very old there. Yeah. And there's me with my dad. And, you know, my parents play quite a role in this because I'm using these letters to them. So people get to have an understanding of my relationship with my family as we go along. So you talk very fondly of your parents and both your mom and your dad. And you say, you know, they'd come to help you if something you rely on the fact that they'll jump in and kind of extract you from these exotic destinations if you need to. And you also carry some really interesting political conversations with them, particularly your dad when you talk about capitalism. And so again, this is the 60s that you're having this conversation. We're still questioning this now in 2023. As a matter of fact, our little group just had a discussion about this. And it was interesting for me to read what your dad said. Like, so far it's the best system that has been invented. But where do you stand? Is it the best system we're on? Well, it's interesting, because I grew up in the Midwest in the Twin Cities and had a very small, all little life. I was five and 10 in 2015. But when I went to Berkeley in the 60s, all of a sudden, it was during the free speech movement. I write about this in the book moving into the anti-Vietnamese, the Cesar Chavez and the equality for all and equity for all and freedom for all. And so it kept me all stirred up. And I thought, this country is pretty good. And I still feel this way. This country is pretty good, but it's not really good for everybody. And so there's a lot of people that still suffer. So I guess my thoughts probably haven't changed a whole lot about that. And I still don't have any answers and I don't have a better solution. And going back to your parents, your parents are basically your first readers, the first ones to kind of know what you're doing. And they're like your sound board, right? And I was amazed to see that the post took maybe five to six days to get to you. That was amazing. Some may think, well, what kind of communication was that? They were writing a letter a month or how? But no, it sounds like it was weekly, basically. Well, when I wasn't on the sailboats, which sometimes it had to be a month because I was a month in between like Honolulu and the Solomon Islands for a month. But mostly it was a lot shorter, yeah. Yeah, but I really encourage everybody to pick up this book and read it. And there's so much information in these letters that Susan is writing to her parents. So I really enjoy that. So let's see, we have a few more pictures. So yeah, you added my high school sweetheart that I thought I'd be with forever until I went to Europe and learned that there was a bigger world out there and that actually I was a part of it. That was what amazed me. I didn't know it at the time, but writing this book I realized that a year I spent in Europe between high school and college because my parents were there really opened my eyes to the fact that I'm part of a much bigger universe than I ever imagined in Minneapolis. And I just couldn't go back. So I feel like this her is trying to find herself and what her mission is in the world, but she's also looking for love. She embarks on this trip on her own and makes friends along the way. And then there are three, no, two different big loves that I noted. And one was Richard, the scientist that you meet in Hawaii, but it turns out he's not quite, I guess the spark is not there when you see him a year later in India. And there's Daryl that you meet while you're apart from Richard. And obviously it feels like you have the perfect formula right there, yet he's committed to his fiance. You've committed to meet your boyfriend Richard in India, Daryl goes to meet his fiance. You're heartbroken, you're absolutely devastated, but you get to see each other in London about a year later, I think, or a year and a half. And it's not quite working the same way. It's as if the love didn't work the same way in a different place. Timing is everything probably, and who knows? Yeah, I started off on the quest not to find love really. I was truly trying to figure out what to do with my life. And in those years, in the fifties, many of the job advertisements in the papers for jobs that men only apply. And I had no role models. I got out of college and I'm like, no way. So it really started as a quest to find my place in the world. And especially after several tragedies that had happened that made me really think I have to live an important life. I can't just let life just take me away. So that was started. But yes, in the process, Richard I had already known and all along, Richard was really a fascinating man, really a brilliant scholar and not exactly my type. But he was funny and smart. And we went on these adventures together. Now, Daryl, when I ran into him in the South Pacific, unfortunately I had just written to Richard that morning saying I would meet him in India. And he had just that morning sent a letter off to his woman friend asking her to marry him and so then we met. So in some ways it was a problematic right from the get go. But yeah, I mean, and it was the beautiful love. And then he went off to fulfill his commitment to her, which didn't work out for more than three days. But anyway, so yeah, I've seen him several times over the years and I want to know about that. Like what the last thing I know is you met in London and it's not working out, but you do say it's not the last I see of Daryl. So what happened afterwards? Yeah, so maybe six years later, I'm in Nepal once again with Richard. And I get a letter that Daryl has sent through my parents and they forward it to me saying I'm leaving London, I'm going to Australia and I want to come visit you in Minnesota and I write back and say, I'll be fine to see you, but I'm in Kathmandu, so sorry. And a few days later, I get a telegram saying I'm arriving in Kathmandu in three days. So I went to Richard and I said, you know, this is Daryl is coming and I need my space. I mean, Richard was no dummy. He knew that things weren't perfect between us or, you know. So anyway, he agreed. So Daryl and I spent a week, but it was not hot and heavy or anything. It was tracking and processing and enjoying Kathmandu and he left and that was sort of it. And then on about eight years later, I get a letter, I'm in Minneapolis and I'm working as a psychologist to the Scott Wright degree in psychology. And I get a letter saying he's coming through again. And so I said, sure. So he came through again, but now I write in the book how, and it wasn't just those years, but then I was spent another three years in Asia and India and Nepal and so on right after that. So I was a little untethered. I just wasn't like, I didn't feel grounded. And Daryl came and he was looking for crop circles and energy points. Now I had to drive all around Minnesota trying to find these energy points. And it just was a little out there for me. I just wanted meat and potatoes. And I was getting a little something different. So that didn't work out. And then 10 years ago or 12 years ago, when I started to write this book, I looked, I thought, what ever happened to Daryl? So I looked at the plot and I found out, it turns out that Winston Churchill's grandson flew to from England to Australia with a suitcase full of MDA drugs and was caught at the airport. And Daryl was the prosecuting attorney. And so it made the Sydney morning hero. So I called the prosecuting attorney's office, of course. You know, well, here he is, I found him. And they said, well, he's in court. And I said, oh, when's he coming back? And he said, they said about three hours. So I, yeah. So in three hours I called and said, you know, get to. And anyway, we had a conversation and we talked and emailed back and forth. He said he wanted to come to Maui to visit me and I said that would be fine. And that, you know, but most of it was me initiating. And I found out that he had never married. I was just getting through a divorce at the time, but he had never married, didn't have children. And I think he had maybe some health issues. I don't know. Anyway, that was that. But I did send him a book that he got two weeks ago. So I may never hear from him again. I don't know. I think you will. I think you will actually. So let's look at some more of those pictures. Okay. Demonstrating at Sparrow Hall. That was an isn't giant. Nothing like it had exactly happened in this country in the 60s and it was political awareness that people were just coming in from civil rights movement. There was sex, drugs, drug and role. It was a, I mean, I didn't mean to be there. I just, it was just a fluke that I happened to be there, but I wasn't there. So I gobbled it up. So of all these places you've been to, including Berkeley and, you know, Europe, you were in Switzerland for school and Italy and then the South Pacific and then, you know, India and Indonesia and you go to Nepal later and so on. Which one, which one place or which one experience was the most formative for you that really made you who you are today? Well, I think it's not place. It was experience. The first one was what I explained in about Europe where I felt like those people look like me but they had an amazing history with Roman roads and, you know, cathedrals that were centuries old and I, wow, there's history here and it's my history. So I feel like I'm part of a much larger history. So that started it, but then when I went and what probably helped me to be willing and excited and curious to go to other places where they didn't look like me. But I spent a lot of time with indigenous people and in the sailboat going from island to island and living in Papua New Guinea when they were just wanting to get their freedom from colonialization and that, those people opened my eyes to the fact that there's so many people in the world that they're all precious, you know, and I'm a part of all of them and they're all a part of me and that's why I would love to have young people be inspired by this book because it's not just going to Europe or going someplace where it's familiar. It's like realizing that we're part of a much larger whole and how it's impacted me is I just want the best for everybody. And you talk a lot about human suffering that you see along the way and how it impacts you and it poses a philosophical question for you. You share two quotes from Ram Dass that I actually found very interesting whereby he says that suffering for other people is a waste but at the same time when one is suffering, others are suffering, we're all suffering as well. And particularly in the light of what's happening in the world right now and Maui, I found that very interesting and thought provoking. Yes, you asked about suffering, empathy and yeah, I mean, I think what he was meaning is that if we go into suffering like our lives fall apart because somebody else's life is falling apart where it's no help whatsoever but having that sort of compassion. Yes, in the world today, I guess there's never been a time in the world where it hasn't been true but certainly now that we're living in today's world, it's quite challenging to learn. To know there's a lot of suffering, there's the climate change that's bringing all kinds of things happening, negative results to so many people and knowing that and not burying our heads in the sand over it but at the same time not being so swept away by our own suffering over it that we're unable to respond in a way that might be helpful. And I think that's really what he was trying to say. I found it very interesting and then it caused me to and think about also you're very candid in your book and you talk about your experience experimenting I should say with recreational drugs. And I know I'm not speaking from experience, I just know that some people are using them to sort of escape the burden of reality that some things are too difficult for them but that wasn't it for you, am I right? Yeah, no, I was experimenting and I think drugs are really different for everybody. I mean, some people seem to do drugs and just cash out of life. They just go off on their own spin. I know other people who do drugs and are really works the world, they're part of the world and they're doing a lot of things but for me, they didn't work. For me, acid was just so intense that I think my nervous system was just too delicate for it. Richard, that boyfriend I had, he would take a handful and he said it was because his head was so organized that he needed to stir things up. Well, I never felt that I needed to stir that much up. I'm already stirred up so it didn't work for me but I think it's really different for everybody but I agree, there's definitely some people. I think they're all seeking God. That's what they say in A and A and it's seeking something, it just doesn't work. Well, I hope that this book inspires 20 year olds and 40 plus year olds like myself to search. To try and find either themselves or what their mission is or what their purpose in life is. I know that reading about your experiences was like, for me, made me ask myself, oh, what am I gonna do now? Because I feel like I've done nothing by comparison. Oh, for heaven's sake, you've done so much and we're all on a journey and as I mentioned in the book, when my leather, you know, between the ages of 95 and 103 when she died, I saw changes in her. I mean, we're all on a journey that's never over. I don't even know if it's over when we die but I at least know up until then, we're on this journey and we get to be curious and interested in and you've done so much and so many people. The other thing about this, everybody has great stories to tell. I told mine by accident, sort of, but everybody, you have an amazing story to tell and we need to listen to each other because they're really precious. That's it. You're inspiring me to work on the book that I said I'm gonna work eventually. So definitely an inspiration on that and I so thank you for coming over to have this discussion with me and I am really looking forward to a sequel. Thank you and I really appreciate you inviting me and I wanna hear more of your stories. And to our viewers of all ages, male or female, you know, please read the book. You're gonna find something you like for sure because there are so many themes in so many places and so many questions, the ponder. And until then, a hui hou. Sure.