 We have the select board, we have Vic Dwyer, we have Bill McManus, and we have George Longenecker and Elias Gardner. So welcome everyone. Any amendments to the agenda? Sarah? No, not really. We're just bringing that thing up about the building efficiently from the Energy Committee. We're bringing that up under correspondence and Mitch has something to say about that. But it's not going to chime in. Okay. Mitch is not here though, is he? I am. Sarah, by the way, I'm really delighted that you weren't sick with COVID and we just see we're fatigued from doing such a great job with the elections. Well, thank you, Mary. I guess I'll start the recording now. You could start the recording then you can, then we could say we're glad to see you back, Sarah. Right. Yeah. The recording's on so you can say it again, Mary. Oh, Sarah, I'm so glad you don't have COVID as you were just exhausted from doing such a great job running the elections. Very well said, Mary. Thank you. So with that, we'll move right into our budget workshop and up at the head of the line is the highway department and Sarah is going to put that budget document up on the screen so we'll be able to see it. Well, okay, just it doesn't work as perfectly really the person who should be putting it on the screen is the person who is explaining the budget, but I'll tell you what I've done. I have emailed this budget to everyone. I've also put it on the middle sex website and so that there are links so everyone can see those budgets and I sent one copy to Vic Dwyer. So as far as I can see everybody here should have a copy of the budget. Does anyone not have a copy of that? Okay. Okay, perfect. Perfect. So Steve, you're up. I am. Okay. So I prepared the budget. These percent change numbers may be off a little bit one way or another. I didn't readjust those after I went over it again today, but overall the budget increased by $7,000, which is like less than one percent. Less than a half a percent, I think. But anyway, 0.9. Thank you. You've got it right handy, didn't you? Yes, I did. Okay. So starting off with, you've got the sheet there. We'll just, we can go down item by item, but winter maintenance decreased on the overall budget because of the sand. We still have sand to do and I've got that in there. We're going to have this sand screened and then we'll have some trucking in there also, but we're taking on a third of the trucking. Normally we haul about a thousand yards when we're hauling it from other places, but this time we're hauling it from our pit to shorter haul, but I've got our two trucks and hiring four trucks. So overall that, that budget went down by 20,000, 25,000. Don't get too excited yet. Wait till the next line. I'm just talking that Dorinda's making comments. Making comments. Oh, I thought you went, whoo. So next we have the summer maintenance. Going down the sheet, I mean, let's see. Stone line ditching, I increased that. I increased some of our hay mulch and netting for some of the work that we'll be doing, so that increased a little bit. Road gravel. Are you still on the page? I'm lost. Summer maintenance. We're on page three. It's marked page three. Page three of the detail there. They're all marked in the upper right. Yep. Are you with us? Yep. Okay. So on the road gravel, we've got a lot of resurfacing to do, but so anyway, I figured out some stuff for road gravel. Our road gravel increased substantially, and I'm up at 27,000 for road gravel, buying it from two different sources. One of the reasons for the sources, McCullough has some really good gravel. This is a little more expensive, and I've got barons in here also. Their gravel is pretty good. It's very clean, but it's not good for hills. It's good for the flatter areas, so that's why I've got two different gravels in there. Roadside mowing went down from what we had budgeted last year, but also last year, we only used one mowing, and I've got it in here for two mowings. That's what we had been doing before, which is quite a bit better. Chloride. Increasing with putting the stuff on the roads, we're going to end up using more of the chloride, so I've increased that. That was an increase of 36%. Went from 16,000 to 21,840. Rental equipment. Last year, we had a miscellaneous thing in here for 1,500. I've got it in here this year for a saw, and when we're doing some of our work last year, we rented a light base. I don't know, Phil, you might have seen it. When we were working up here under the guardrails, we had that light system. That means I can use the whole crew. It was cheaper than hire and the flaggers, so I've got that in there for that. Tree service. We've got several trees that we need to have down. Something we can't or I don't want us to do it. We need that professionals to at least take them down and then just leave everything bulk right there and 10-foot lengths and whatever. We can take care of that, so I've got an amount in there for that. It was a substantial increase from $1,000 we had last year to five this year. Greenup is the same. We have our stormwater discharge fee. Emergency road repairs. It was in there as emergency. I put it as unforeseen, and I put a $5,000 figure in there that takes care of these little things where you're not going to get reimbursed for it. You've got a quick little storm, wipes out a culvert or two or something like that. Okay, so that the summer maintenance increased by 36.9% and as I said, some of my percent figures may be off a little bit, but Durando will correct me on those. Then we're on to equipment maintenance sheet five. I left the equipment repairs the same. The parts and supplies the same as last year. The Plough and Sander equipment the same. The bulk oil and the DEF for the trucks the same. Inspections went up a little bit by $100 and then tires. I bumped that up by $1,000 for the tires that we're going to have to get. That took care of that. On the equipment maintenance was a 2% increase. Then we come to the specialized services, which we haven't used. That's at $40,000 for truck rental, renting an excavator, and wages for hiring somebody to run the excavator. We will be using a portion of that. I don't think we'll use it all. We may, but I don't think we will. We'll be using a portion of that anyway for some ditching once we get through mud season. So in this same category. So you're talking about using what's in this year's budget that we haven't yet spent. That's correct. Right. This is for. Well, I was just explaining what was there for last year and then for this year, for this budget that I've just prepared, I put ditching in there, but I put it in as a subcontract instead of doing it like I did before and just doing, excuse me, a small amount. So my intent would be that we start sometime mid-June or so, do some ditching and then let it go right through and do some more ditching, which would come into this budget. So that would be my plan on that. And then I also put a little mud mitigation in here of $20,000. And also I put that under subcontract. So anyway, from last year to this year, it was a decrease by 18.7% in that category. So I'm sorry, I just have a question. So you're, you're saying ditching includes mud mitigation and no, I got it. If you look at that sheet, Liz. Yeah. That's in front of you. I got two different areas there. I put down a ditching subcontract, $12,500 mud mitigation subcontract, equipment only of $20,000. The two combined comes to $32,500. But you're saying, are you saying, but the $40,000 that is from last year is that special $40,000 that we talked about at town meeting, right? That's correct. And I put this stuff in that same special services. Okay. So this is special. So I'm using that header for ongoing and it may come back to this same thing that we had last year or may not, whatever, but that's where I put it. Yeah. Okay. Grudge maintenance, shop supplies. That went up a little bit, a couple of hundred dollars. Waste disposal went up like 3%. Air gas services stays the same. Fuel tank maintenance. I put $2,500. We had $1,000 for maintenance last year. I put $2,500 in here. We need a roof over that thing. And I think we can get part of that roof done with that money or at least all framed up for that money. And garage door maintenance, I left the same. Office supplies, miscellaneous, I left the same. Small tool purchase. Okay. Small tool purchase. Besides the small tools that we use normally end up getting, I put in here building a table for the chain repair. Right now, the guys do the chain repair on the floor. They've been over. And they'll spend a whole day doing it, more than one day, but they'll spend a whole day doing it. And then for the next two days, nobody can really walk around very good. It's really hard on the back and it's not good for us. And we're going to end up in a workman's comp thing. Anyway, they talked about a table. They do have those tables out there. You can't find them anywhere. However, I've got somebody that I think we can build one. And so that's what I have that money in there for. The next one is utilities. That one here is pretty straightforward. No changes. I left everything the same. Electricity, heat and the phone internet. Gas and diesel. I'm at the same place I was last year. For the money, the way we had figured this stuff and the price on the gallons of fuel, it's down right now. I don't know what it is going to do. It's down right now from what I've got in here, but I think we're covered for the fuel. Anyway, so that stayed the same. Wages and benefits. I went over everything with Derrinda and it's basically a 2% increase over everything. And I think all the figures that Derrinda might will be checking some of these figures for the FICA and all of that stuff. We went over a couple of them changed it, but it's an increase of 2% overall. Highway miscellaneous. I don't know how I got that category, but it did. Culverts. I increased our culverts. We've got a few more culverts that we need to change. And so I increased that budget by a couple of thousand dollars for culverts. Signs. Increase that just a little bit. We've got two more years of signs to get. And to get everything back up to the standards they're supposed to be at. Bridge fund stayed the same. Put 6,000 in the bridge fund. Put 30,000 in the paving fund. Equipment purchase. I had put here the purchase of a cutoff saw with the blades. It would end up being a diamond blade so that we could cut or like on cut a piece of guardrail out or cut in the concrete. Whatever we need to do there. So that was an increase. I went from 1,500 to 2,500. Then there's the last item down there is building fund, the town garage building fund of $5,000. This will be the third year we've done that. And so that overall budget was an increase of 5.6%. And then I went into construction. This construction can cover various different things, but we've got gravel in there. Again, it isn't a huge amount of gravel, but there's gravel in there, ditch stone, hydro seating, ledge removal, erosion matting, and the mud mitigation. Now that's where the mud mitigation was in before, which we had done. I put that mud mitigation is in that special services area. So that went down. So this overall budget of the construction went down by 27%. We went from 23,250 to 16,930. So overall, all those figures, the render will correct me, I'm sure, but we went up, like I said, about $7,000 from $7,029,81 to $7,027,501. Very nice job, Steve. Very well broken out. Thank you. I only have one bad question. Go ahead. Chairman, that we have a big truck. We're purchasing this next year. Okay. That's a good point. And I know we are not purchasing a large truck this year. We just, that's one that needs to be replaced is the one we just put $70,000 in and we bought a three-year service warranty on that. So that truck would end up being in, I don't have that sheet in front of me, but that truck would end up being fiscal year 23. That's what you wrote on it. Yeah. This fiscal year, thank you. fiscal year 23. We do need to do a greater, but that will end up being in fiscal year 22. Am I correct on that? Well, it depends when you buy it. So if we were to buy it in after July one, then it wouldn't go in until the 23 budget. So anything you buy after July one, you don't pay on it until a year later. So if we were to buy it after July, it would be the following year. Yeah. That's assuming we don't make any kind of a down payment. Right. Right. Is the existing greater worth anything? Um, it's, it's worth something, but we won't get a lot for it. That's for sure. It's too worn out. Right. And so anyway, on the only thing that I didn't talk about was we've got to replace the pickup, a pickup, one large truck and a greater. And the way I did this, and Dorinda, you can correct me if I'm wrong, because I don't have that paper in front of me, but it's, we'd do this in three different years. And what my intent would be, the pickup was going to be this next year, but what I'll do is we will do that in this fiscal year. I think we can do that with that $30,000 extra that we got from our highway fund or, or whatever. But that would be my proposal is that we could replace the pickup this year. The greater would go into the following year. And then the following year would be the big truck. And then from what I looked at in the thing, we don't have two units to replace in any one year. So we're thinking just going on the conversations you and I've had, we're thinking that net cost to that greater is going to be roughly $250,000, right? $250,000 to $300,000, yes. Excuse me. The plan would be, I believe, to do that over 10 years. Yes. So, you know, we'd be looking at a $25,000 payment a year from this July, something like that. Yeah. Not in this, not in this year's, not in this year's budget. And that's, and that's assuming we get $40,000 or $50,000 for our existing greater, right? Yeah, I don't think you'll get $40,000 or $50,000 for our greater. Well, I heard, I heard Dorinda wanted to buy it because she wanted to use it to go get her groceries with. Yeah, but she was only offering $100. Oh, she's not listening. I am listening. She's not paying attention. I thought we just got that pickup truck. Has it been that long? Yes, it has. How many years have we had it? Six. No kidding, huh? The only reason I said I wasn't going to do that, but after looking at the equipment schedule, it made sense to be able to get that vehicle and then get every, so that we're not trying to purchase two items or two pieces of equipment in the same year. So you're saying pick up in this fiscal year next year, greater and next year, greater in the budget we're talking about now, and then a year after that, the big truck? No. Well, yes, that's when we would get them. The payments wouldn't be for the following year. You also, one of your 2018 dump truck, the last payment is in FY24, and that's when I believe you would be starting to pay for the greater if you were. So that's one payment would be dropping off and you would be picking up another one. The other big truck does not drop off until FY26. So you would have a couple of, and that's when you're scheduled to replace the loader. We're off for a year. Well, we may be able to. I mean, the loader's in good shape. I mean, it's been a good loader, but it is what it is. I mean, you have to use it just so much and we just don't want to get, you know, what scares me is when we have a situation with that, like we did with that truck motor, when all of a sudden we have a $65,000 or $70,000 bill. Yeah. Well, I mean, that truck is older. I'd like in a way, but we paid for that warranty on that thing. So, I mean, and with that transmission in there and everything that we've done to that truck, I just, we might as well throw $70,000 right out the window if we traded it right off. Great. Questions? Select Board Budget Committee? Well, actually a couple of things. We really haven't had a discussion about wage increases. And I know Steve used the two, but I get a little concerned about whether or not that's enough for us to retain people and kind of the same discussion we've had, you know, in other years about, you know, not churning through staff, but we can talk about that as we get along here. The other question I have, and I guess I'm thinking back to, you know, last spring, is there any way that we could consider starting to peel up some of this tar off of the center road? I've got that in my radar because I think that if we can make it through this spring without having to put gravel on top of that black top so people can get through, my intent would be that sometime during this year, we'll probably take it up on the other side of the culvert pass Kroll's house and rip it up all the way past the farm here. Okay. Because that is the worst part and just put that back to gravel, at least we'll be able to maintain it. Yep. I mean, if we got our paving grant, we'd be doing that anyway, but yeah. So yeah. This is really bad. Yeah. Okay. That's good news. Yeah. Steve, can you hear me? Yep. I just deleted it, but I shut down the budget. But the section, could you repeat again where you were saying how you had to buy like sort of twice as much gravel? One was from McCullough and one was from another company. And why you had to buy twice as much? Why increased? Because we need to resurface roads. And that's what I thought. All right. Yeah. We need to resurface those roads and that gravel isn't going to go very far. Right. I know. We bought quite a bit of gravel from McCullough for McCullough Hill Road this year. And we went over our budget substantially, but we couldn't just stop there in the middle. And we didn't do the entire road. We got up past Vicks House, almost to the top of the hill. And we did the upper Barnett because we were working on that road too. So anyway, that's what that budget is for, is to increase that gravel. Hey Steve. Yes. Yeah. I just curious, do they still have the prison culvert program with the state and the paving program? The grant programs? They do have some grants. We've applied for the grants. Yeah. I just wondered if they still had those programs. I used to be in charge of them. That's why I asked. Oh. Yes. And we've applied. Yeah. Okay. Liz, did you have something? No. I started mumbling to myself. I'm sorry. When you mumbled, the paper comes up. Too many Zoom meetings. You don't even know. So Steve, I had a new record the other day. I had six Zoom meetings in one day. That's horrible. By the end, my brain was so fried. I didn't know which meeting I was in. George. George grant applications pending for paving or culverts. We have grant applications out there right now for either paving or culverts. We've got an application in for paving out there right now. I think this will probably be the third year we've applied for this section of road. So I don't know where it's going to go or what's going to happen. But I'm kind of going in the direction that we probably won't get any grant this year again. And if that's the case, then we'll have to do a portion of this road like what we just talked about. Rip it up and put it back to gravel so we can maintain it. I mean, it is when you when you think about it. And I know we've had this discussion before. Having that one little whatever it is 1.2 mile section paved on all the rest of our roads or gravel is a little crazy. It's one thing. It's one thing if the state is helping us maintain it, but if they're not helping us maintain it, I mean, we could spend we estimated what Steve to redo that road properly to dig it up and get the good sub base under it'd be over a million dollars. Right. I would think so. Yeah. That's almost our entire town budget perspective. So I don't think we're going to be doing that. No, we can't do anything with it without without a grant. Any questions? Okay Steve, thank you very much. That's a really good job. And I do agree with I do agree with Phil. I'm just I'm just presuming that we're putting the discussion off until our budget discussion in January. Yeah. And I'll also add because we just put in as a placeholder like Paul's wages because we don't have anybody there. So we just left that number in place. So there is a whole discussion needed around not just the highway department, I think several departments. Right. So I think that that's just a placeholder. Right. Okay. Those and just on that, I had done something a little different on on wage increase for the highway department. But after I went over everything with Dorinda, I mean her just putting that 2% and took care of everything that I was talking about anyways. So that can be of a discussion for another day. But as far as budget is concerned, this figure should cover everything right Dorinda. Well, it wouldn't it doesn't cover if you're trying to do the wage increase you were talking about it doesn't cover it. If we add on back in the other person, it only covers it if you keep that you know the way it is now because Paul's Paul's figures just in there as a placeholder. So you're using right. I think that but overall those figures when I had done my original figures and then after you and I went through the thing, you were pretty near the same figure I was at. Yeah. Okay. Any news on that front though Steve? No, not not yet. Okay, so conservation commission. I'm here I had to step away to take care of the dog. I'm taking off my budget hat and putting on my conservation cat. Pretty small request compared to public works $500 the same as last year and and the same basic categories. We did finish the kiosk with last year's money and and we'll be working on trail signs this year assuming that assuming things get back to normal and we can get out and do trail work and the other money is the as we noted is the special article. We're not sure how much we're going to request for that but that doesn't come under this budget. But this is probably the time you're thinking $5,000. We have to discuss it at our next meeting. We might ask for less. Questions for the conservation commission. Can I just quickly just give an update from the last meeting we had about the fire department and that I got in touch with some representative of the FEMA grants for for fight for volunteer firefighters. And he said there's another round of grants opening at the end of the end of November where the fire department or I guess us on behalf of the fire department can apply for those air tanks. So it's kind of a pain because it's a FEMA grant but I can't I mean we have to do it. Is that the way we have to do it the town applies and I don't know. I think probably I mean the thing is is the fire department is their own nonprofit aren't they Sarah don't they are number and stuff so you know maybe technically they should do it. Do they have the expertise do you think to do it? No I mean we'd have to help them. I'm just saying you there's just a couple things that need to be in place before they can apply like they have to have an account with FEMA and they have to you know have a Duns number and all that and if they don't have that kind of stuff it maybe they can get it but maybe the town applies. I mean I can ask the guy what normally happens in those circumstances. Well I wouldn't and I'm just playing the devil's advocate why wouldn't the town on the air tanks we own the trucks we own the building we own. Yeah so maybe we do own the air tanks and maybe we are the grantee. For having the fire department rolled into the town as a department as opposed to a standalone. Well it gets back it gets back to that whole question but to you know it doesn't make sense to me I mean for one thing I don't trust the fire department to do the grant correctly just to be just to be fine and to administer and submit the proper paperwork and all that so I agree it's a pain but uh you know I think we can do it and especially especially if it's real money it's well worth uh it's well worth doing. Well the guy made it sound like he's like you should get that you know figure out if you have this stuff and then get back to me ASAP so we can talk about this application like he sounded like he wanted to be helpful I'm just not sure who you know I'm happy to sort of get the ball rolling on it I'm not sure who in the fire department except maybe Eric. I think Eric I think Eric lives and I think you should get in touch with Eric and I think you'd be more than willing or unhappy to just work with you okay on that because I think he's got the wherewithal to do it. Right yeah because I mean you're gonna need stories like how many how many tanks we have how many trips we go out on. Well I think you need some things you're gonna need. Well we got we got that report from uh from Jeff which is a pretty good pretty good indication. We need to have the air tanks nobody's gonna dispute that I don't think I can't imagine. Yeah right. It's a you know a safety issue so anyway thank you for joining that Liz and let's whatever the next step is let's let's do it. Okay you want me to reach out to Eric? No I can um I mean I know I know I'm from my firefighting days. Oh yeah. He was my he was my team lead. So Liz we're waiting we're waiting to see in the budget your air pack and your turnout gear Liz. Great um what's his last name uh Steve? Mateevir. Heavier. Mateevir. Okay we can send you his email. Send me his email. Peter. We'll get it for you. Yes. Now Liz Liz I bet there are neighboring cities and towns who have done these FEMA grants and could give you help I think so too. Show you show you what they did. Yeah they just are you know FEMA grants are notorious for you have to cross every i that needs every t and every i needs to be dotted or else you have to return the money so you have to be really careful. Yeah if you cross your eyes and dot your t's you're out of luck. Right. Yes. They're fussy. That's true. Oh yeah every mistake you make just scream COVID as loud as you can. Right. Okay any any further budget discussion for this evening? Okay thank you everybody. So what what do we have left Sarah? We have you left right? Are you talking about budget wise? Yes. Well we have the zoning left that's kind of a little up in the air considering our zoning situation is a little up in the air um but uh so we have that's that's still to go in the town offices and I can't think of anything else can you Darinda? Yes we have cemetery to go. Oh right. I've asked the listers they're supposed to have something for the first week in December um let's see what else have we got um I think that will take care of it uh well we have the rec committee but nope we already got that right. I think so. Yep I already got that one so we're all set there so yeah so we're down to the cemetery and the listers. Did we have anyone present on the on the rec committee? Usually Mitch just submits a little memo it's not a big deal. Oh okay and we can we can make him come but would it be good if he could if he could zoom in just to talk about what projects he's got in the offering but if he can he can't. Okay I'll just put it in. Perfect. So it's going to be town office uh or the office um the listers rec committee and maybe maybe uh zoning. What about the cemetery? All right for some reason I keep forgetting the cemetery. This COVID thing comes up we may need our cemeteries. Watch out. That's a little depressing. Yeah what's the number in Washington County 239 or is it higher? It's 233 in the last two weeks. All I know is we in Orange County are now in the red having been bragging that we are the lowest now the highest. Thanks to those Halloween parties in Marshfield. Well thanks to hockey. I think the hockey is the big deal. Yeah the Halloween party in Marshfield is pretty bad too. It's awful. It gives us one of the highest rates per million in New England. You guys I'm sorry what are we talking about? This isn't on the agenda what are we talking about the budget for the government like for the um the track we're talking about the cemetery budget needing to get this cemetery budget I'm sorry we got a little off okay I'm just we but we're not talking about like Sarah and Dorinda and all that next time okay that's what I thought okay that's what they were discussing what's going to be for next oh okay okay you missed the transit okay so I think we are uh we've completed our budget discussion for the evening thank you uh thank you budget thank you George and uh Elias thank you yeah thanks thanks okay it is you're right I mean is uh what's this you know the third person on your committee ever gonna show up or is a bill could bill has a con but he'll he'll meet with the budget committee we won't be making them okay there is there's some strange sound coming through here is that Dorinda yeah somebody came somebody came on and I don't know if they went off well there's someone called Dorinda and you know that's Dorinda I have a feeling have we been have we been I think you might have been hacked yeah just delete it I think it might be Susan well well there's another Dorinda that's what I mean and they were making the noise they were making a terrible noise it's scary I thought I thought it was Elias talking to his baby now it's another town of middle sex okay you can delete that one right yes the other town of middle sex it's right next it's another town of middle sex Dorinda's going and it's town of middle sex now I'm town of middle I think it's Susan someone will just jump in I don't know if you can keep them out now it's Vic okay we need to get out of this meeting and sign back on okay and the meeting okay