 Okay, we're streaming, but I don't know where to Still thinking like it's playing chat or a ladder something link relaterates with the links. Yeah, I think it's streaming To a different site again Yep We are streaming I'm good But I'm but I'm here all good this link in the chat Hopefully the seven people watching and here's let me put it here. So this This is our actual link Because I can't get it to stream to the real link because it makes me reset everything Thank you. No worries. Sorry Last year it was seamless Hmm, so you're not so much but should be Should we like post this link to somewhere so people that waiting can I put it in the chat of the other one of The like original link And I put it on the website So hopefully people will find it that way But yeah, put it anywhere. You feel like it needs to go I'll just be back in a minute. I'm a second Oh good, it looks like people are making their way to the stream It's more than just me watching it now And last time was I also deleted the original one Melody have you heard from Some really good taping sound. Yeah And then you're any over extension on the keys. I Realize how loud I must have Yeah, we just speak and didn't find noise I know some people that are into like mechanical keyboards and like press one of my friends was like I want a keyboard that had 50% less sound. I'm like, why Sometimes I like the feedback of the keys sometimes We just got a email from Viola They don't have a zoom link. I accidentally pushed archive instead of answer and now I can't find the email All right, well, hopefully They'll pop in and then we can get started Since it's nine o'clock now Just wait a couple more minutes, maybe Hope you while we're waiting. Do you want to talk about your reflections on yesterday's session? Would you on the spot? Yeah, no, it was cool with between the community thing, which was like that was a lot about life-coding humans So there's always a bias in life-coding humans because humans are computers, but are not computers at the same time So it is always fun of thinking of how we bring life-coding to non coders and also vice versa and With systems explorations a lot of interesting things like knitting instead of typing That's a life code that is good because knitting is mathematical Shout out to Alex McLean because if you guys know about a pack that's a lawn that was the whole point where there's a lot of patterns in textiles and Juggling and all that so it reminded me of that of how like you can code without a computer Because code is just math and math is life and life is math And also coding on cell phones because I do like coding on cell phones and it is sometimes we do forget that like People have mobile devices and it did remind me of like one experience where I had to like Improvise that so they did a workshop that no one brought their computers But everyone has smartphones so then it's like okay, but you can do this on a phone So oh, it's nice to think about how like for some people they bypass The whole laptop industry or even now tablets right like a lot of kids don't use Laptops they learn from tablets. So I don't even know that like, you know typing and mouse work A lot of kids have to learn that later. They don't have that Quick act. So we what stop x-rays if anyone knows what I'm talking about For sure. Yeah Yeah, I always think about that like we call it a phone, but it's actually a mini computer That we carry around It's actually barely So when you want it to be an actual phone You have to get one of the really They don't even let you do that anymore. My mom really wanted an actual phone. Just Right. You have to have a smartphone You have to have the computer Only computers Well, every time it's a computer right, I don't know like You saw someone recently put like the game doom on a pregnancy stick Because you know like the display screen is tech it is a cpu like even microwaves are computers So I think like everything is a computer in a way, but it's not a computer because it's really just one and zeros and All that stuff All right, now that we're all here. Should we get started kofi? Yes, we should right Melody, are you doing the time this session? Yes, I uh, yes, I can Or do you want I can do it if you want Can I can? All right, so we have all that in order All right Hi everybody, welcome to the fourth edition of the hlci hybrid live coding interface We had two wonderful sessions yesterday in community and humanity as one and system explorations But since we're talking about live code and math and hybridity What better way to talk about this stuff but the worlds that we build and in this in this session We have various aspects of world building And now to start it off we would have lkk speaking about live coding as a community gathering And as an extended gong assemble Yes, thank you Can everyone hear me well? Can I get like thumbs up or something? awesome Thank you all right, um, so um I'm on behalf of lkk I'm going to share the video that um gang and I Recorded in that once So bear with me while I'm sharing Let me know if you don't hear anything I can pause and restart the video again, but here you go Keep research base group. Sorry. We are lkk We are collaborative research base group consists of artists including me Nietzsche dotong You also can call me fame. Hi. My name is keng chacat keng kan kha And today we're going to talk about um our project jit extended gong assemble Is a multi-channel audio and visual network live coding collaborative sound making and And extended branch from our process oriented ever-evolving project series called jit jit extended gong assemble is inspired by the community gathering gong assemble Where each person participating may have only one or two gongs Hence collaboration is a big part of creating this virtual music Everyone has to contribute to make this music work Thus eliminating the role of dominant force and underlining The agency of each individual who participates We also invite audience to participate with file objects, whether it's keys in the pocket You can some other Metal objects that they can easily find the participatory element become really crucial to the Extended gong assemble as accessible point for audience to make sound with us community that they lost their original gong that they use this using the collective memories to tune it And use it as a gong as well The sentiment of network gong is to democratize interaction with each live coding performer The performance is created with specific frequencies tied to Southeast Asia sound culture It uses these tunings as a constraint to create a virtual music performance with melodies and rhythm spread out along live Collaborative life order are connected to a midi network that share the same plot so we can perform together in time In an essence Live coding gong ensemble is also borrowing the hocketing technique to improvise and create this virtual music Culture has always been exchanged migrates and evolved But in an attempt to avoid colonization by creating a centralized national identity Ciamis called music has become a part of this new identity and spread throughout modern thailand There is also some written evidence that the central tai government banned folk instruments and music jit pumice also criticized the ignoring of these folk music and communal music that was forced by the tai elite And the status quo in his series of essays Cemetery of tai music And the last thing is the visual the extended gong ensemble is always an audio visual project What you see here is the screen capture from the live coding visuals from the past performance which an assembling of performing documents using words extracted from jit pumice The cementary of tai music that criticizing tai music itself also You can see some Figure and footages just the post here Is the archive footages From the core wall era, which is a lot of it is propaganda We wanted to present the idea of the southeast asia tuning itself that Have been oppressed. We wanted to also Create like the new iteration of the visual which is our idea is more community approach So we are being working on the visual that have like the crowd sourcing text from different communities and Live as we performing um, we want The audience or everyone else to be able to contribute to like the the small data set and Keep it as an archive for future performance as well We hope that we can learn from this project a new mode of collective expression And navigate our life together in this modern time with care We hope that this project could be an example or inspiration to act and move forward with inclusivity in mind Like jib has say in his essay We should add as many voices as we can That's it. Thank you so much for listen to us and tune in to this top Thank you. And I think we have some times for question So yeah, so I'm one that's one. It's a little deep but because you said You're thinking of how it can be archive and I know gongs were first mentioned in 5th century 80 But they tend to go back to Second manelium bc. So we're talking maybe 4 000 years of gongs And now you're trying to archive in a digital space And since you're trying to build a culture, this might be a tough one But since we're doing world building where do you see this going in like the next manelium like year? 3023 someone Encounters the gong ensemble. What do you want to what do you want to be preserved in the tide of what you're trying to do? um so There is like, um, I think I think like main two different things which is like I talking about like the archive at the end is toward the um The text which is presenting in a visual And our hope is to include um instead of like keep the identity as like tie as we inspire from like tie writers and um identity we wanted to let go of that and have um more community approach include more languages into The the visual part In terms of the gongs house um The thing is that we um encounter to begin with is um A lot of instruments are like even like the tie pedagogy um teaching in music tie music is uh based on um 12 tune um Eurocentric um standard um system um and um Even that There is like a standard version of like the tie chord music that's seven equal that still not include all like the The music are like the south from different communities that they actually don't have like the standardized tuning But instead of that that's why we use the word south culture instead of tuning To kind of like have like a different voices from different communities. So before we perform every time we will talk about like different um communities that we inspire from our use the the tuning of south system form and uh use and just actually the south of the gong that you heard in a performance is actually all the synthesized gong sound um, which is not a real sample like not a sampling sound So that's the essence of like kind of like it comes from like the physical or the form of it into frequency data and to the digital So let's say that Yeah, I think I think that's great, especially like since we're burning ancient to digital to post digital So it's very nice that you are thinking about a whole holistic way of keeping it tie But representing the moon the many cultures within that culture. So I think that's great. Thank you very much and in the end We will have more discussions on that Holy neck Thank you. Next up we have Viola Hopefully I said it right and Viola would be talking about Viola has two presentations this round And the first one is live coding and site specificity Exploring collaborative immersive performance You can Um, hello everyone. My name is Viola um Thank you. I like I come for your presentation and yeah, I have two things to present today. Um The first thing I'm gonna share is I'm gonna share my slides now Okay, um, so this presentation is called live coding and site specificity exploring collaborative immersive performance And uh, mostly I want to use this opportunity to talk about our recent performance Very loud um, a recent performance I put together At live code and I see In collaborations with wayfarm and festival tanami in chili and we put together the show called anti-patterns Incorporated six musicians three visualists and um kind of manifested into And our actually an hour and 30 minutes long live stream And I want to talk about just kind of like the intention behind this project how I came to be and Um, kind of like in what way that this is like a difference. I guess interface or world building tool that we can use in live coding Um, so I was commissioned by wayfarm for this project for this festival in chili called festival tsunami and their entire prompts for This year's festival It's called situated listening and you would define situated situated listening as to listen Extends beyond the listening ear Accounting for the totality of the body and its environmental and contextual positions For me, I think this manifests in understanding what environments we're in Kind of what venues that we're playing these shows at Um, and also just thinking about who we're with um, so it's kind of like subverting a little bit of like what's um, a usual like coding show or like in new york kind of like we do a lot We do a lot of typical algorithm performances that I'm going to talk about a little bit later um, where it's usually like um Based on acts, um, but I really want to put together an event that just like feels like an hour long soundscape That's really immersive and audiences become a part of the performance as well Um, so before I jump into the project itself, um, I had a little bit of theater and performance arts background um, and I always See a lot of like discourse in this artsy relationship in performance are and specifically I'm very intrigued by size specificity and also size specific immersive theater as a concept um Many people would define size specific Practices as to articulate exchanges between the work of art and the places in which its meanings are defined um, so it's not just like a locational concept a lot of times people also use it to talk about Um situations it's to talk about like political environments and to talk about the community where within And I actually think I think it like I guess performances is also a good example of just like not only looking to historical and cultural context, but also kind of looking for the political context um in which we perform at And it had there has been a long history of size specific performances and like that manifests in many different ways and people are defining um them in a Border and border sense. I think beyond just like location itself Um, I think notably I think because we're all like digital artists and we work with digital mediums Um, there has also been a long history of like trying to define a digital mediums or mixed medium at site um In this book in tango technology and the transformation of performance the writer wrote Who performs and where should our media saturated and accelerated gaze fall? um have the Architectronic of the projected image sufficiently overwhelmed the human body so that the screen itself now becomes the new site and body of performance Um, none of these concepts. I feel like we're exploring right now are new Uh, for example, john cage had this performance in 1969 where basically they had I have notes here. Um, it's a five hour long image and sound performance that uses computer commands to execute um, I think seven harps 200 something computer generated tapes and like 64 slide projectors and eight film projectors um, and it's this immersive performance where the concept is that it's undirectional um that um audience are encouraged to witness and move in and out and fully move in articulate their own experience um, so I feel like I'm very much working in the line of a lot of these like pioneers Um that do these kind of audio visual performances from a more installation or performance are kind of point of view um So now how does that relate to live coding? um So I've been reflecting a lot on like just the standardized live coding performances or like algorithmic formats Obviously, my experience is very limited within the united states and mostly like the new york scene Um, how I think we do a lot of like algorithms where we have two performers Right like you see a visualist and a musician and you project your code and visuals on your background and the audience standing in front of you um, and I think a lot of times so many of these topics coming to play where You know, where does the gaze fall? What directions are people paying attention? Um, how does the collaboration manifest and how do we engage with the audience? Because I think we're all creating sites with our audio visual experiences I kind of sometimes want to challenge this notion of like it has to be a parallel um Position or you know, it has to be two performers. It has to be only an audio visual collaboration um, and I know again people have been working along these lines for many years And I think this is the kind of like one of my first foray of like just like really trying to define this performance as um a very highly collaborative immersive performance Um, so yeah, we hosted this event at hex house. It's um a space in east williamsburg new york Brooklyn that's mostly a co-working space and they host a lot of events and stuff So most of this like setup and formation is informed by what this space already is like and what we can utilize in this space Thus site specific And before the performance, we really set our intentions for this performance Not notably will want to play with You know the quality of the space itself how people's Movement and position will change their perception of the performance And I really wanted to be kind of like a relay kind of performance also because we're doing a live stream So there's no set up breakdown time. Um, so thinking about like performance like overlapping with each other um And then like really just creating like this like big soundscape that people can jam together And also different ways to engage with the audience because um, it's not either a live stream recorded acts or a live performance This is kind of like more of like a studio recording kind of situation where we do have live audience And we can engage with them and they become a part of the performance. Meanwhile, we also have audiences listening from the outside Um, and also before the performance we talked amongst ourselves. What are the themes that we explore as artists? um And people talk about feedback. Um, what does it mean to care for space or ourselves? What does it mean to define and reconstruct? um music and performances What does marmaration mean? Um, just like flocking in space. So these are all of the things that we were um playing with um, so Yeah, we use this uh collaboration tool called flock. It's a p2p web browser based Collaborative tool that allow people to code different things in different languages I think it supports hydra for visuals. It also supports like flocks dots title cycles strudel and a lot of different things Oh my god, I don't have time very quickly. Um, and we also explored different problems of interaction We have our visualists void Playing a game in real time and like inviting audiences to play the games together I had this middle Point where I had an intermission where I invited audience to like stand up and walk around and then using a lot of the movement prompts that I've curated over the years that I do like movement theater And um, obviously there's a lot of like tech setups and thoughts behind all of this and I would just really want to appreciate all the artists. Um, that Came out and supported us and also participated in this. Um, as you can see we all used different toolkits Um, and kind of the space is set up to be able to prioritize Everybody and then we really just like wanting to circles and each person played. Um, while I also jammed together Um, yeah, I also have this meticulously planned Thing because producing Um, cool. And now we just have some images the streams recordings are available. I can give a link in the chat Um, and that's it. I want to thank everybody well Thank you very much for that presentation. It's time, but don't worry. I have many questions Especially since I said that stage design thing. So that's very cool because that's an aspect We low key don't talk a lot about I feel in life come but stage design is very important because performance and space So we are going to have more conversations on that Once again, thank you for that. All right next we have Katerina who is going to be exploring the concept of feasibility within the Good good that k experimented. I think I butchered it this time and experimental design theory Creative response and live coding. Uh, thank you kofi. Um, so Let me share. Okay. Um, can you hear me well? I can assume. Yes. Okay So, um, welcome. I'm katerina and like kofi said, um, I'm talking about exploring concept feasibility Duncan experimented experimental design theory creative responses and live code So this talk is a combination of reflections and speculations based off of my past experiences and it's created with the hope of inciting discourse So I'm katerina when I live code I perform under the stage named cougars or cats too And I'm relatively new to the live coding scene I've dabbled with live code in New York City and in Bangor, Maine in 2019 But then got reinvolved Through interactions with the live coding community in New York City Over the past year and I'm based out of westchester, New York So, um, that doesn't mean I haven't been involved in other creative Events, so I've helped organize various Events instructed mid music dance and coded um An intermediate artist specifically one with a heavy stem background and extensive flute and dance experience My work is not media specific. I chose my media based off of the experiences I intend to create I aim to facilitate others in finding joy belonging acceptance and connection through my work And I view live coding as a new tool in my arsenal So algorithms and collaborating through live code are new media to incorporate in my work They differ from some of my past media choices and that these require my presence and active engagement and creation In front of an audience while showing the inner workings of code sorry, okay so um, why did I start live coding? Again, it's because I wanted to connect with others using some more media in my geographic vicinity And some of the strengths I find live coding brings to my art and how um, it's um A great way to prototype quickly and iterate It's an easy way to collaborate with other coders to incorporate public failure and recovery um And it's a way to perform with computers plus the focus of this talk Um, I'm trying to use it to user experience test that algorithm So, um, what do I mean by testing to understand my thoughts on testing look dive into my past My undergraduate experience involved taking various physics classes These classes introduced me to purely speculative experience Experiments conductive because it is impractical or impossible to conduct an experiment in part or in full So the professors called this idea gedanken experiment or thought experiments They mentioned it being spread by albert einstein through the world of physics And we learned about them because we were taking a special relativity class And it would be impossible for us to send right off the right flying through space at 350 for experimental purposes Um, and we contained my friends and I we continued to conduct speculative experiments in our free time For example during dinner and calculated calculating how many pieces of bread because back between a specific point of campus in the moon um And going on I later studied how to design rigorous experiments Experimental design theory allows one to calculate how many tests need to be run before One can be say 99 or 98 or some other presented certain that a specific situation is going to occur Um, and given a correctly designed experiment one can physically test the subset of possible variable combinations And still be sure of success So we can also use computer simulations to test expensive endeavors such as launching rockets Which can reduce the number of failed physical tests and the cost of sending up the rocket rocket eventually um so I was introduced to the more artistic side of the position and experimentation through creative responses rapid practices from Social dancing and jam sessions I find that completing creative responses ends up reminding me of some lessons from my test heavy path But what is a creative response? So given a set of content say is that a reading a talk etc A creative response is a way of investigating investigating the content And exploring your artistic goals simultaneously Due to my personal interests my creative responses tend to involve different ways of inciting participation And my moderating the participants responses In an effort to better understand how to help participants facilitate joyful explorations my work I began to take notes after installation I've supplemented my personal observations by asking for feedback after installations This had less frequent but more detailed and less speculative response I began to implement note taking after live coding shows shows and realized that I could use them as grounds for small sets of crowd-based experimentation So this led to purposeful observations and recently, um, I've set out With the objective of viewing the audience's reception to certain aspects of my performances Why well, I normally woke or sorry work in isolation and do not have access to testers So an algorithm provides a platform from which to test small sections of the larger work in progress in front of an audience The audience contains a mix of highly knowledgeable and first time observers. So this makes for an interesting set of advice and feedback Um, and then beyond observations they like code performances yield material For example sound files that I could use in future work So my question for you um Is on the screen but basically I believe that I am not the only one to consider live coding or the environs of an algorithm as an avenue to test something else And I'm interested in starting a conversation where we discuss ideas such as what concepts have you used live coding to explore What non-live coding projects or experiences has it helped develop? How has a live coding experience become part of iterating for your larger performance or another work? So does this idea make you uncomfortable and if so how and why? Thank you Feel free to reach out on these um platforms or if you're on the live code new york discord About this and I'll get back to you when I can Continue the discussion Thank you for that katharina. Uh, we have three minutes for questions. So I want to see if there's any questions, but I have a question So it seems that in your world building There's a lot of math and physics in it. You know that's saying it it's not rocket science, but literally we saw like rockets and test this sign so For that we know that math and physics can be limitless, right? whereas One of the you talked about failure and we know one of the constraints of live code is that since you're Improvising things that you're testing sometimes in real time You're most likely going to fail right like mathematically of course. So how do you balance this notion that? you're going With something that's rigorously trying to prevent failure In conjunction with something that like you're probably going to fail uh, so actually take inspiration from my past um with social dancing and with jam sessions Um, and I view it as you have to practice like you have to practice Before going on stage. Okay, maybe this Experiment will fail, but you have to practice. How might you recover? What are some ways you might recover? So I make sure I practice relatively consistently before I perform So your confidence interval and p values are quite low, right? Confidence high and then yeah I'm confident in my ability to recover Yeah, what I think is uh Probably an interesting world build within live coding, right because we have to face that Up front And you were talking about a lot of design and and also brand in the past and I realized there's a cohesive team that Everyone so far has mentioned a thing from their past that world build into their live coding So I'm asking you where where do you think brands from your mathematical background science background? What do you think that has aided in your ability to do your world building? within live coding Okay, um So my mathematical background hasn't Aided my world building in live coding um it So when I set out to solve a math problem Or really solve a science problem anything um, it I was led to approach things by finding sources seeing what other people have done in the past and so I think Those same techniques you first try those then you do small tests here small tests there see what combination of things works What combination of things doesn't work? Um, I've started doing that and so that's been incorporating to how I build my performances Um, not necessarily the same as how I'm evaluating like the concept I truly wanted to test it's more if that part goes more into How am I structuring my overall performance? Yeah, oh wow and you were on type as well. So thank you very much and as you know, we're gonna be talking more later Thank you very much for that And now we are going to shift gears because we've been talking about gongs. We've been talking about site specific and Todd experiments and now we are going to have a video from daniel ohm Where we're going to go into the world of html flowers So and there's a video. So I think someone's gonna share screen Yeah, hi, um My name is daniel um I've I was born and raised in new york I'm I currently live in bricklin and I'm pre-recording this video because Um, by the time you're watching this or when you're watching this right now, I'll be working in person Um At work right now so, um I use the other pronouns and For more context I've I have very actually very little technical experience with live coding. Um, I've I mean, I've installed like title cycles I've like I've read maybe like a bit of like the beginner tutorials that's available on um, I think the website that um That alex mclean um Runs or partially runs And um Yeah, I I have some coding experience. Um I've I used to know like some javascript, but then like I forgot it all after not using it for like two years But um, I don't know. I I've always really been interested by Or in like the live commie coding community Um, and how diy It feels Despite me like currently simultaneously being really like intimidated by um, just all the technical aspects of it, but Yeah, I don't know. I I feel like when I saw the um, the announcement for For this whole like symposium thingy um, I just had this like Half-baked idea in my mind and I figured I'd share Where I feel like it'd be kind of sick if if we could somehow incorporate live coding tools and like adjacent Um To make like I don't know like websites kind of at like kind of how there's like Uh, I forget what you call them like in like the game development world you have like There's like these little like competitions or events where You try and make a game within like a week or something I forget what they're called. I can't remember off the top of my head. Um, so I feel like it'd be kind of cute to have those kinds of events in regards to like website building Where you can just make like cute little like static html slash css slash javascript based websites where like Instead of like whatever you're live coding triggering sound samples you're kind of triggering Like website element based samples and like as you're like coding I don't know like I guess like the sky is the limit right like your imagination is the limit of that like you can a bunch of like different forms or buttons or like Grids or tables could form and like I don't know. I feel like visually it could be kind of interesting or a trip um Just because I feel like like again, I'm not like super technically oriented like I've kind of gotten into web development just like I don't know just out of boredom um Uh, I wouldn't say I'm like um Like I didn't major in cs and I don't have like a tech job or anything like that but Just from like a user layman's perspective. I do feel like a lot of the internet is rampant with this really like design oriented like really heavy like Like high brow just like Taking yourself like really seriously kind of vibe um And I don't know. I feel like it'd be sick to kind of treat Website design from this perspective of okay, like this doesn't have to make sense like we can just Be really raw with it and like kind of just like go crazy um And I feel like that's that's kind of like at least For my perspective That's what I find really or partially really interesting about the musical aspect of live coding where I you know, like I I know like some people have used like Fractal equations or like I don't know like wild stuff and um I feel like it'd be sick to apply that from like a Again, you know like a website design perspective um I think that's like pretty much all I have to say about that. Sorry. I don't have any like Fancy like part-perd presentations or like visual things to to offer but um You can see you can see how to make hat freddy Hey All right, he's not saying hi, but um All right, I'm gonna end this video now. Bye The manual is not here, but there's a lot of interesting concepts that I felt were brought up and I feel like this is thinking of the past to bring into the future Because earlier in like tech if you like ever use the internet during the nineties or zero zeros websites for a while You had anything from jail cities to my space and what was cool about my space and jail cities people were just Making anything colors were clash. There was no concept of color theory in some cases and then other cases color three was it And I remember that that I think that's one of the aspects that even brought me into more into computing because you also had the same thing with like msn plus Where people would have different fonts and I remember that's where a lot of the data about comic songs Is that a good design theory? or or these little games like Like yeah, who or even torrents back then because you have to keep designing. So I really think there's that Big connection of wow, let's just make Individual flowers or even I'm in cat basin Canada. So even snowflakes because the 10 about a snowflake They say that every crystal of a snowflake is unique. So what if we live coded? That aspect of unique where instead of just thinking about the algorithms and the tech way What about if we were able to just code to bring out our personality? So I think even Daniel kept saying I'm not a programmer I'm not tech one thing that we often conflate with programming is that before you program as explained many times You got to think about Where you're coding you got to think about the history But you also got to think about the design and elements before Because programming and live coding doesn't start or end with the code you're doing it comes from your mental State your emotional state your cultural state and I think bringing that perspective of let's have a jam session where we're just making websites and explore our feelings is Interesting idea for a jam session And also the accessibility of it the creativity of it, and I think it's a like a nice way to bring that in All right, so we're going to discuss about that later as well And now we bring back Viola, we bring you back on for live laugh code live coding comedy and computational humor Hello, I'm back Um, yes, okay full disclosure. This is going to be a very very silly presentation um and Uh, I think a lot of the concepts are not like fleshed out, but I'm gonna do it anyways Um, this is called live laugh code. Um, I've been talking to people about uh live coding comedy for a little bit because Um, I didn't introduce myself in my last presentation. This one's a little shorter. Um, so my name is Viola he and um, I come from kind of a theory Uh slash performance art background and I've also Um done some dancing and um, I do stand a comedy in new york sometimes. Um So I think a lot of times this is like a questionable approaches of someone that comes from a very multidisciplinary performance arts background and I often I think attempt to merge these practices or like think about what are the transferable or relatable things that I can Take from each other and I think today um, a lot of these like thoughts and experiences come from either doing sign up comedy improv comedy or Um, coming from jazz dancing, which is another thing that I've done Prior to going into live coding and I think this session is really interesting because a lot of us are just um I guess non-tech workers or people who are self-taught people who like came from Not a tech background, but we can bring kind of all of these practices into our live coding practices And I think that's super cool um So computational humor, I think a lot of times is like Defined as like a study whether computer can understand interpreter or generate humor Like I've had multiple attempts of like asking chat GPT for like a programmer joke And it just like doesn't do it or it's like really silly But I think what's really cool is that we are humans with computers So we have a more organic control over humor in regards to computers. I guess And a prime example would be um, this is the meme from the live coding yc server when um, We hosted events called Oh my Your headphones dying. Um, can you can you still hear me? We we hosted an event called queer coded. Um, this past june. It's an all queer live coding performance and Uh, someone posted this meme in our server, which is cute. Um So, uh Jumping into kind of the things that I'm like trying to explore One big thing about comedy is that we do a lot of proud works Um, a crowd work is usually when like someone hosts Or like some people's approach is just more like audience interaction based You will like thank the hose you ask the audience questions You ask them for names and you stare at them and then you tell some silly jokes and you roast them um So like so sometimes what I do in terms of like proud working or like engaging with the audience um code annotation is Interesting medium for as like an interactive device um in all of all in almost all of my performances I try to use the annotation like live um to like talk to people um And people seem to really enjoy that because again a lot of our audiences I think also come from a them programming background And I think the code itself doesn't mean much to them other than like an aesthetics And when they see these annotations sometimes I explain what I'm doing. Um, sometimes I tell them a little bit background of the track I'm about to play. Um, sometimes I just be like, hi, how's everyone doing? And they're like people are really happy about it. And sometimes like I draw some asky art. Um And I think it makes like really accessible this is uh A performance this past month at Brooklyn art house where you can see I'm like live commenting On the code and kind of trying to do some interaction and this is exactly what I would say when I host a comedy show I'll like ask everyone how they're doing I will introduce myself um in case I introduce my partner. You will say let's give it up for the co-host and um I also attempted to ask everyone's names and have them yell it out which they did um And I think I've done another version where after they yelled out. I also roasted them, but There are different approaches and I've attempted this a couple times Which I think is always just like a silly little segment that I can incorporate into my sets um And people had always come up to me and told me that they had like really enjoyed um having these kind of intermission uh in like in the middle of your music playing So there's that um Okay, I'm just kind of gonna skip this uh In comedy we have this thing called a punch line. Um, but I think what I want to show is I think a lot of times we can use uh repetition as kind of like a device to create this punch line And I actually want to show this clip from a swing dancing competition because like I see a lot of um Correlation in live coding performances and or practice and also in jazz dancing that I used to do um because both are these kind of like subculture that's like rooted in structured improvisation Um, and both are kind of very like repetition or pattern based and you will see what I mean in this um We're gonna we're gonna be seeing this um This dancer is called remi And he's doing this completely improvised uh bit with live music in the background And like I think about this like little blips all the time where he repeats the same movement three times And the fourth fourth time when you're expecting him to do something Like he does something else But then he still gives you like a satisfying resolution And how much that just like reminds me of like kind of like a classic comedy structure where um, you would do Like, you know, you will give a string of things and it will be thing one thing two And as you're expecting thing three that you will give you something unexpected And that is kind of a good way to use repetition to call for like a punch line And um, I actually had I had an example, but I can't show it now. Um But like I always think about how like I use the title cycles for uh for live coding and title cycles is a very It's cycle based and it's a patterning language and so much of times. I think we think about Um, especially I think when we first started at least when I first started I think a lot of my frustration was I feel like title cycles is a little bit too cycle space And sometimes like you're stuck in playing this loop and then it's like difficult to offer change But then if I think back on how like using these kind of repetition Can call for a humorous response and it's like a very like organic in the moment kind of responses from like playing in this like cycle based rhythm then there are opportunities that Emerges when you can play something for a very long time and like you have this sudden change And using that as a humor device Cool, so, um, I guess what's next? Um, I think there are still so much that I want to Think about and explore in terms of like what human what does humor mean in live coding contexts? um Also, like I don't really know if there anyone else doing like this type of explorations or work And if anyone know or if anyone is seeing this conference and want to talk i'm available And uh, I think what I kind of want to work towards is like this solo performance where I can like actually like merge dance movements comedy and live coding In one thing But like I don't know if it's feasible. I don't know when that's going to happen, but We march on and we he he ha ha through life That's it. Thank you Oh, I never gave my handles, but it's fine Yeah, no that was that was very great and This is a self plug, but I actually have done A couple of computational humor stuff before So that's why I was very interested in this one actually and it just worked out and everything you said it does go back to like be in the site because Even if people don't understand the code It seems that rep people understand repetition because you know the human brain loves making patterns So one of the things I love doing was I remember one time I made people laugh Because I started from the number one and I just could pet doing 0.1 0.001 and then go what and then people started realizing and then I'm like what number do you think I'm going to do they said zero and then I just started like matching the keys So everyone got a laugh at that. So when you were talking about setting up the punchline and all that It really did resonate because it's like, yeah, we're live coding improv, but it's like You you know, like every like we have a lot of people that have done dance And you know the one thing they always say is You know the routine everyone doesn't so you can always break out of the cycle and then go back So I do feel there's a lot of things with comedic timing and also performance timing. So yeah um And also Kate who's also like co-chairing and my and co-host is this thing also has done some comedic dance bits too So you are in good hands and I would like if you uh Well, since it's time where everyone you can put your camera on we're going to have a group discussion Yeah, and I saw there was a lot of chatter about how everyone feels like the pieces merge So in the so in the form of live code and I guess I'm going to put y'all on the spot From one of the other presenters. What do you think can You can bring that they talked about within your own world building one thing I noticed was that um, both uh, viola and um Alec click uh, um have said that um, they incorporated um other The audience very well into their um work and so far I haven't done that as a live coder I've been watching the audience, but I haven't actually incorporated the audience and in the case of viola's first talk there was um A really large ensemble of coders So those are both things that one day I want to also do I um As someone who my first some of my first instructions to the art was through like dance classes and through music classes Like musical ensembles playing in bands and that sort of thing. I really do want to use the computer more as like sometimes I want to use it more as a um as an instrument that's not just a solo instrument and like Maybe maybe you're playing with one partner or another partner, but just like multiple people. So that's one thing I want to incorporate more um I love the idea of um, viola bringing like all like the data and things that like size specific into the performance because um In a way that many many things is happen during like the live coding performance is like improvisation and A lot of factor that happening definitely influence like how we Decide to write like live up code and and feedback loop in that I think um Yeah, that that is really interesting aspect that I yeah, I would love to bring in um, yeah, and I think Also kind of relate to that. Um, I know I like click a Kind of like work not only like within cultural context, but also just kind of like um Like mic microtonal sound right like I like when you talked about how like western music standards And like how we understand like an octave versus like how all these cultures have already been practicing Um, where like that is not the case um, and I think this is kind of also my intention of like Doing this event and calling it anti patterns because um, I think a lot of times like live coding is about like embracing these like um segments Fractals of things that um like these like western standards or theories don't really like encompass Or have been ignored for years and we have these computational tools that are allowing us To be able to do that. Um And I think with people like Katharina who have like a more scientific background Like this is like a really good tool to combine together and like we can use that to produce counterculture to produce social change I know that was that was good because I saw a lot of feedback So I'm like everyone seems to be going and we have a question from alex Which I think it's going to be very good because when in Conjunction with what daniel was saying because I think everyone here if I'm not mistaken for more red doesn't have uh like a original major in computer science So I think this is a great question Can live coding events be a good place to experiment with different ways of relating to each other? If so, is live coding a kind of counterculture? Yes I've always said that I think live coding is um counterculture And I think this is to just basically to see live coding Beyond algorithms, but also like I think algorithm itself is also a counterculture Um, I remember I was talking to alight a sun Who is a generative artist and then she was talking about their first experience with live coding yc events And how that kind of felt like almost like folk art Because we are wielding these tools of the digital age To create these expressions of our own That are outside of these like capitalist intentions of what programming can be used with And I think that in itself has like a lot of anti establishment ideas built in Um and us by creating these things together and relating each other as humans even though we're using computer tools Um, I think it's indeed creating counterculture for sure Um, yeah, I agree to that. Um, I also don't have background in cs as well um, but on my my whole life working like with media and I think media and everything I um I like the question. I think you asked earlier like how how your background and who what your experience kind of like From you as who you are and making like creating the work as like rebuilding the world as we kind of like us Present our way of seeing um, so um, I I think well um life coding or like art in general. I think is a is like really Sorry, I got like so nervous. I'm gonna pause a little bit Um, I think like in a way that like the the ad in an older form Not like the computational art or like not the the ad with the computer have Have like a different power structure Also, I think like with like the digital age and also like um computer art like with the Coming of internet we have more fluid in terms of relationship of the power structure and I think that somehow like there is a many way that we can hack and and being fluid So like I totally agree with like the counterculture um Yeah, hope that makes sense So I'm sitting here trying to decide what I think a counterculture is. Um, and I guess I'll probably side with both of you and say probably a little bit of a counterculture um I don't know the idea of so I don't know I see Like I said, I see like both coding as a tool and it's like really what do you want to make of the tool, right? So if you're interested in exploring um Different ways of relating to each other. Um I I am I hope others are too. Um I don't know. I think we could make some really interesting Work and truthfully some of my favorite performances I've seen have been focused around they having um multiple performers interact different in different ways or um How um the audience and the performers interact or interacting with something that happened in the past and so therefore um, I guess the data from something that happened in the past is not quite interaction but Responding to something that happened data-wise in the past. It's um I don't know. I think it could create different just it's just another tool to see how can we um How can we understand things and then in this case, how can you understand the relationship between? um people No, no, no. That was a very good question. I send great answers y'all And I guess uh, oh we still have some time So I'm going to ask another out ball question because I don't like to be generic. It's not in me So we're talking about world building So and this is hybrid life coding. So let's be speculative What is like an improbable Live coding scenario that you can think of within your framework or another framework that you would like to see realize and you and y'all can like oh Or small depending on the thing. Uh, okay. So this one is probably going to be kind of unpopular but um, so As a social dancer, there are some things I like about social dancing. One of them is that it's like provides say a specific structure Of how you have to interact with people and also like specific ways where it's like socially acceptable to say like Touch someone and so I'd be interested in either of those concepts happening. I saw a very cool Art project once made but actually I can't remember who made it But like the whole point was like the work didn't work until like two people sat next to each other and like touched each other Somehow like shoulders hands whatever means like they had to do something um, and the work didn't work until then so I'm kind of curious about like what we could do with something like that or like if there was more of a Just someone was very specific in the formatting of like this is how The performance is is based off of a set of rules that it's um, this is how people are going to relate to each other during this particular performance And that's going to build the whole entire experience. Anyway, um, kind of like performance scores Yeah Yeah, first of all, I cannot believe by like whole swing dancing. Shapil is actually relatable. Um And yeah, like I I do agree with the with the social like aspect of it Um, and I think for me like this rule-based thing is really just kind of like I think what I've been exploring with all of this I think I have a very like structure or like rule-based kind of mindset And for me like creating improv is always creating rules that you can break Um, this is why for me whether it's jazz dancing whether it's like doing stand-up comedy or it's doing live coding It's always been like trying to like figure out like what this rule system is That's at play and then like what's the limitation and like what's the freedom? um, so I think it's mostly For me it's always like iterating on these systems and these rules that we're able to like play within um And I think in the line of like performance and or immersive theater. I really think about um, how This like immersive concept can scale Not necessarily scale up, but just like scale in different ways um I think and like ways we can like actually like engage people into our things and also another cool thing about social dancing I think it's like the consent to touch Sometimes it's like very non-verbal and it's like very Like fluid and like you you have this like social context within that like you lure people in It's almost like an invisible onboarding where like when people enter the space and then like enter your realm Like you establish this communication connection that like doesn't have to be like very explicit And I wonder if like that can happen in live coding where like we can get people to interact in permission To explore um for the audience to become performers without like having to announce it I think The dream I I think like that. Yeah, I kind of agree with uh, we a lot in terms of like There is like no like the dream one ideal to framework um and Um, the way that we also present our project is also like Making like a different iteration as well. So like um Also, like with that idea. We actually Rude it from like a kind of oral history. It's like slightly changed every time that we Um present so like added new idea always so like we be like let's say like Like the jit project we've been presented for like two years three years already. Um, which is like from the beginning until now It's like totally different version of it so Yeah, but but like I mentioned in my presentation what we wanted to include more is like something that can include like different languages Into into like the the dataset of the visual but also I think like the dream Framework that because I present here in Bangkok and also in us. Um, it's kind of like Always like different languages between the two so I hope like there is like a easy framework to be fluid in that languages, but you know translation is not always um Exact so yeah Thank you for answering and this was a very great conversation. I can see this conversations being done many times offline and all that so thank you very much and that will end this session And also if you want to know every 10 from The past sessions are on the website and even the past editions all the links from the youtube links and all that are there so Yeah, and then the next session Would be moderated by kate and it was going to be a great one at the moment I cannot think of the name, but it is there I think it's live coding as life Um, yes live code as life. Yeah, and stay tuned for the links since none of my links that I set up are working But we will get it out as soon as we start streaming and thank you to all the presenters in this session This was amazing. This was fantastic. And this is why I love hybrid live coding Thank you all so much