 We're at three o'clock. Must be the rainy weather brought all the people out to this afternoon meeting. They didn't have anything else to do. We're meeting at three because of the annual historical society meeting at 5.30 tonight, so we met early so some of us could attend that. Are there any modifications to anything that's on the agenda? We've got one information item from Jeff Kilgore's office and I have a budget report that there's not time we can wait. It's not much of a budget this year, so if you want to put it on and we have time for it, that's fine. And if we don't have time for it, we'll do it after the minutes. Whenever you want, we can do everything at the end, things that I've talked about. Sure. Is there anybody here as members of the public for something that isn't on the agenda? I haven't seen the agenda. I thought probably you were here for the historical presentation. Okay. Hearing nothing else, first up is the concert schedule at Rusty Parker Park. Lynn, do you want to join us and you've got the schedule? You're ordering the weather? Yes. Sun every Thursday. So yeah, I'm here to request permission for the park from 6. 6 o'clock would be start time, 8.30 ending from June 7th to August 16th. So that's shorter than you did last year? Same. Same. How many total? 11. 11. Do you have any suggestions or changes? No. You've got your decibel meter? I'm pretty happy. They've done a good job. Thank you. I don't see any problem with it as it is. Any new bands or anything? Well, every year I try to mix it up, yeah. Yeah, I got a copy. The list is somewhere else, but great. House of fire? So it's every Thursday and Saturday. Beginning on June 7th to August 16th. You want to make a motion to approve that? I move that we approve concerts at the park from June 7th to August 16th. Just 8.30 at now. I'll approve that, not approve it. I'll second it. Second that. Okay. The motion has been made and seconded to approve the schedule for the concerts at Rusty Park Park. Starting on June 7th and through August 16th starting at 6 p.m. going until 8.30. All those in favor say aye. Aye. And is the farmers market on the same day still? Yes. So I bet if it's them, they have more people around. Yeah. Have they filed a request or anything yet? No. But I was at the office of their insurance agent because I had noticed that their insurance had been canceled. It was going to be canceled for lack of payment. The village is unnamed insured and I was there on other business. But while there I asked about it and he said, oh, they paid the day before the thing expired. So they're all, they're planning to do it, obviously. Okay. Well, thank you for coming in and we wish you a successful season and good weather. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for providing that. Thank you. Next up is a review of the historical survey of portions of the village that we were looking to possibly expand the historic district and things. And do you want to introduce Scott here? Sure. Kind of explain what you're doing. Absolutely. And we're going to use the. Yeah, Scott's going to get the laptop and if we have any incompatibility we can switch right over to our laptop if there are any issues. So if we want to see if we need to move over there? Probably would be a good idea to come around this side and just roll around. Scott's got a presentation that he's going to do here. We just have to get the computer compatible with the projector. Like I say, he's got a lot of drive and we can put it on his mind. So. I'm sliding it with the laptop. Yeah, there is some. Okay. The light was on, right? Yeah. Can you switch it to show your. This looks like we're headed in the right direction. Right. So I'll just introduce the project for the benefit of neighbors. Here. So I'm Steve. I'm the. Community planner for the town village and the village of water. Mary decided to. Reserve a our village of water very historic district or water where a village historic district is technically what it's called. And so. The voters approved funding for this project and we hired Scott Newman, who is here today as our consultant and Scott's been working diligently reserving the properties. And he's going to go through this in detail. We decided to survey some additional areas on South Main Street, basically going from approximately that shoulder street south end of the South entrance into the state complex down to the neighborhood convenience store formerly depot beverage. We also added the area on Union Street, the low end of Union Street that goes out to the North Main Street and then we also added an area around the school. It's actually the area that's bounded by High Street Hill Street, Railroad Street and Stow Street. That is not currently in the Waterbury Village Historic District and Swayze Court. So Scott has looked at all of these areas and the goal of the project is to first submit to the state. And I've got a schedule here that we can talk about after Scott's presentation. So we would submit this to the state to the Barrett Division for Historic Preservation. They review the complete report and once their comments are incorporated, they forward it to the National Park Service which is the entity that reviews historic district nomination for the federal government to have districts listed on the National Register. The ending goal is to have the revised district listed on both the state and the National Register. So with that, I'd like to turn it over to Scott and have him go through his presentation. Well, that's the first half of my presentation right there. I'm on. I could start. No, thanks for the opportunity. And if it's not clear, I think there's going to be another public meeting. Is that right? That's correct. We're ready to submit. So in the second meeting, I mean, that's where we talk more specifically about the history of Waterbury, going through the different sort of layers of buildings and building types and so on. Some of that will come up today, but today, as my understanding was more about the mechanics, the status, the timeline, examples of this, the area surveyed, and sort of the metadata behind this project. So I hope if you are willing to see all pretty pictures of buildings, you can come back to the next one because there's going to be a lot more. I know we do want to have one to start. So again, thanks for the opportunity to do this work for 106 Associates. And Steve, you've been terrific at providing guidance and support all the way through. So if you can tell me again how much time we have right now, I'll try and... Sure. As I understand it, we have till about four or so. Is that correct? Yeah. Yeah. You're taking the bull. Go ahead. Maybe I'll give a few minutes. It's certainly been a good opportunity to spend more time in Waterbury. I spent a lot of time here during the permitting for the Main Street project years ago and worked with Steve. And that's when we were tagging all the trees and had our measuring tape out about trenches and sidewalks and everything. And so I'm sort of feeling like a back and familiar turf at some extent. As far as doing the National Register, it's safe to say that Vermont is behind on their National Register nominations statewide. We've got 12,000 buildings and sites and districts listed. But it's a well-known fact that we're fairly behind, particularly with these village nominations. So I think you're very timely and sort of a good foresight in getting this done now. It's been 40 years since the last one. And a lot has changed. And a lot has not changed remarkably enough in Waterbury. And just a couple of the other towns that are doing that Woodstock is now underway doing theirs. They just put out an RFP. Bennington is 2008. Rutland is 1980. And that's just a very small one in the downtown. Montpelier is 2017. And I want to tell you that Montpelier's nomination took 14 years to do. So you're doing well on the timeline too. Winooski has no district, no National Register District at all. And there you're talking about a very substantial area. Burlington has a number of small National Register districts that also sort of connect at church in Maine and go off in different directions. Brattleboro has a very small one and only in their downtown. So really you are ahead of the curve in terms of doing your village nomination. Certainly not playing catch up at all. So what's the National Register? I don't want to over this too much detail, but it says at the bottom there that 12,000 building structures, sites and districts in Vermont have been nominated and listed to the National Register. And it is a role of properties that are deemed worthy of preservation of the national level. So what are some of the advantages, certainly advantages of having a district known for planning purposes for you all in the village and soon to be just town? Town of Waterbury, is that right? I don't know. Soon to be only the town. Soon to be only the town, yeah. I don't know what you said, he said it perfect. Soon to be only the town, yeah. Certainly there are advantages that you can tap into for travel and tourism because National Register districts get on certain lists and you can exploit that for tourism. And in study after study it's shown why do people come to Vermont? It's for that compact New England village center to experience the authenticity of Vermont's history. So this is certainly in line with that economic development opportunities and certainly that's kind of more about the historic tax credits at the bottom. And once these properties are listed in theory they can then apply for a 20% historic tax credit on qualifying rehabilitation projects. We can do an hour on that but just safe to say for the moment that that possibility will be out there for a much larger range of properties in Waterbury than it currently are. I should know one thing and I'll load it now and I'll load it again at the next meeting and I'll line it and highlight it and bold it. There are no encumbrances that come with National Register listing. It does not mean that you have to paint your door a certain color or you have to keep your roof line or you can't put on additions. Encumbrances like that normally come from the local level design review districts for example, DRBs, that kind of thing. The National Register imposes no restrictions whatsoever. So you can in fact have your property listed in the National Register on Tuesday and demolish it on Wednesday without the federal government having anything to say about it. We hope you wouldn't do that but there you can. There are no restrictions whatsoever. Steve, anybody has any questions? Why don't we go through your presentation and then open it up unless there's something urgent by all of you. So this is just the cover page that was done in 1978. I don't have my screen up here which I normally do because of the way it connected so I'll be looking up here a little bit. And it was done by Terry Winters and she was a Columbia HP graduate. Currently I've looked her up and she's currently doing marketing in Boston doing well but having nothing to do with historic preservation anymore. I gather Boston marketing is making her more lucrative business. I don't know. You know the nomination was helpful in some instances for my work and in other instances it proved to be pretty confusing because she was mapping and describing a bunch of properties some of which are no longer here many of which she did not provide addresses for so it really took a lot of sort of on the ground and mapping to figure out which property was which. But we did get through that ultimately. So this is Miss Winters map as you can see here this was done in 1978 includes 187 properties and also includes a state hospital complex you can see the boundary line thing sort of dash right away looking line going around the historic district there and includes the CBR portion well at least part of it as it goes through the north part of the village. So you can see that it's it's not a pointer right. Well let's assume that left is I mean for my purposes the Main Street water barrier is a little off kilter so for the purposes of my studies I'm not constantly saying northeast and southwest which would drag people crazy in the descriptions. At this point well you can see the north arrow right here is up there. So if you can imagine describing different elevations of buildings using northwest. So the convention is that on the left of this is north the right is south the bottom is west top is east so there you go and that's stated in the beginning of my text so there's no confusion about what that is. So you can see on the on the right hand side it's cut off just south of Batchelder on the north it sort of goes up to the present roundabout just about and then it stops short up on Union Street and bends down to Meet Main Street. So you know why did they come up with those boundaries then it seems a little bit arbitrary perhaps but it's really not in the 1970s the districts were always smaller than they are today and the reason is well let's take an example on the south side the reasoning at that time was that there are too many modern intrusions in that district so they were looking for historic building building building building building they didn't want to see sort of shopping centers or anything like that interrupting the flow of the district so you can see it's pretty consistent there once you get south of Batchelder there are newer buildings and some interruptions in there so they didn't include that then Union if you look up in the top left you can see the district didn't go down that bend in Union and that's because there was a gap between the next set of properties that are further west on Union now, further towards Main Street so they considered that a point of discontinuous how about that and why didn't they for example include Swayzee Court you can see up there on the very top they didn't extend it down that street well that's because several of those buildings are newer a couple of them from the 1960s until 1978 and 1960s building was pretty modern so that's not the case today but they actually qualified for the National Register so I just want to explain that's kind of why they cut that district short, they also missed well not missed but didn't include several things even within this area which are being included now and that's Parker Court I'm going to show these a little later Parker Court, Warmer Court the rest of Badgshelver that's kind of confusing why they didn't go to Badgshelver I really couldn't sort of figure that one where is Parker Court Parker Court, it's right you know I actually like the municipal building where Ann lives behind the fire station the driveway is right there between the fire station and that little service station and it goes back and tuck back there for I don't know the names and that's and and Warren Court is by the horseshoe yes yeah but that's not indicated that it's not well there's no structure shown on the map they just, right, it's within the boundaries a lot of these places but they just didn't pick up those properties and I don't know why other than to say that in the 1970s districts and I've seen a lot of them they're just smaller and there are a lot of emissions they just, they take like the cleanest most contiguous parts of the village cores and that's what made it onto the register I just never understood why the Deal House was never on there which is the Red House yeah, it's one of the most pristine beautiful historical houses well well be thank you there's some fantastic buildings down there so but you know that issue is going to be resolved so what was my scope of work originally you could see that this was the map I had to work with initially the center kind of what purple I'm kind of colorblind that area is the initial, the original district and then the areas that I was asked to look at were sort of top left and bottom right and that top left is Union Street where we looked at before it bends back to Maine and then extending Main Street, South Main Street all the way down to the river and also including a little bit of River Street so these were the two areas I gather they were worked out with with the village and the state and you know that's why I was asked to look at those areas it says over there so can I ask just a question or send the green is what you're thinking of adding correct those were the areas that were given to me initially I'm just wondering across the horseshoe those are the backs of properties it does include everything on all the buildings so I'm thinking the big old houses in there so is that not executed isn't it can you back up one slide please the vertical line goes to the right of the horseshoe runs to the top of the page those between the word village something district was that the actual district in 2011 at the time of the flood of Irene that's actually just a paper fold line so in that case where was the Montpere and of the downtown designated the dotted line just beyond Batchelder street this line right here comes up around cuts across main back across Batchelder and starts heading north again so that's the south extremity well to my question I owned property at 112 Greer and 104 and at the time my doctor he said I was not in that district at the time I told him he was correct and it was tax credits which were given to in due respect to Ed Steele Christopher Amill and the W. Claw firm and those were the tax credits that were given out I think they qualified to one who was told inaccuracy perhaps at the time it's not maybe happy of a cent but anyway thank you for going back to that slide of course so we went through this so a quick moment on another area that we added after spending some time in the district and driving around and looking at the properties it became pretty clear to me we needed to look at this additional area that's highlighted in blue that's up on high and railroad and Swayze further north on Stowe seemed to me that this neighborhood was fairly continuous with the area I was looking at and that we ought to take another look at it and to see if it should be added to the survey I mean it's the buildings were of approximately the same age anywhere from the 1850s to the 1920s roughly in that area was very dependent on the railroad a lot of these areas Eldridge Last Block Company was up on Railroad Street a lot of the buildings were owned by that company workers housing and so on so I met with Devin Coleman about it he looked at it and he said we definitely need to add this area to the bill of survey and in fact it wasn't sort of a question at that point of whether we wanted to we said you have to because the National Park Service you need to defend the boundaries when you send in the nomination of the National Park Service and if they see this area they're going to ask well why wasn't this area included it's easy for them to look at Google Earth and drive down the street and see all these buildings that apparently connected to the village that weren't in them and they would have thrown it back that's my understanding so it would have ended up doing it anyway so I want to appreciate the rapid turnaround of the village so I could keep going on the project as it was no real hiccup or anything I think a couple of days and then we were right back on it but it did extend the contract period so those are the streets on the left approximately 46 more buildings I think I counted too low Steve I made the contract extension but it's 46 I have another question when you opened your statement you said you were going to add you were going to put North Union Street in so South Union Street already is in right because there's a lot of houses there that's the first fact that you weren't having it that's right there I can I know but I want to make sure I understood because when you spoke to begin with it it made it sound like that was the only part going to be put there but you could see the north sort of the purple is existing we looked initially at that upper part that's in green and then we ended up adding that that the reason the trustees initiated this was the inequities we found after the Irene flooding that the houses in the historic district were exempted from being raised whereas similar age houses not in the district weren't exempt so that this was a way to look at being equitable if the house is qualified there that's why the lower end of Union Street was particularly added when Steve brought that to our attention and the other end of South Main Street they would be exempt from having to be raised I had to separately in one of our houses to be on the register to get an exit determined to be eligible yes I was eligible but I am a little bit about the areas that were added inside the original district I remind all those additional pieces but what pieces did we look at that were sort of integral to Ms. Winters 1978 so these are the pieces that we added so the Hope Cemetery was added the full length of Adams Court not talking about the bottom left this is all along the back of your hand to you folks and then moving right there's that piece of Parker Court that we captured the next one off Main Street that's the Warner Court they're only a couple of buildings down there it turned out they didn't contribute they were not considered historic buildings anyway but it's important to know for planning purposes whether they are or whether they're not so it's good to survey them and then again extended Moody Court in this survey right to the end so these pieces were just sort of were left out of the original survey the other thing you see here is the red boundary that's the State Hospital District and I did not survey that and the reason for that is it was listed as its own district in 2016 as you know because they did a lot of work there in re-having that property after the flood several buildings were demolished new buildings were constructed and so part of the mitigation for the loss of those historic buildings was to nominate it to an individual nomination for the State Hospital complex so I did not survey that area it's its own district but because it used to be in the Village District as you know from 1978 it's still going to be part the National Park Service we asked them that question you put its own boundary around it but you will maintain it within the Village Historic District so I think that was probably a good outcome and one that Steve was kind of advocating for when we talked about that so the Fed agreed just to clarify Batchelor Street was added as well across from the south entrance yes that was added the reason it doesn't have green around it is because that piece of Batchelor was included in the extension that was originally given so that original extension went up Batchelor and then went south that's good clarification so on November 8th, 2016 this was the new configuration of the State Hospital complex probably most of you have seen this and it has their own numbers now from 1 through 9A and so I'm taking that material and folding it into my nomination I mean it's quite a few pages as opposed to including the whole thing so just a little bit talking about the mechanics of this survey so you're really getting sort of behind the scenes look at what consultants are working on this what do we use for a base map I mean for me and a lot of other preservationists I'll solve up the mapping if you don't have a clear map people are really never going to understand what you've done, they won't be able to find their properties and it's not as valuable for planning so I got the one on the top left of the map from BCGI and I said well if you have anything that's a little clear because those footprints are they're not really rectangular I think that's an automated process where there's a computer program that outlines those buildings and that's why they're not square and then they sent me this one on the right and I said well that might be an improvement but it really doesn't include all the garages and a lot of those footprints are out of date so really and then I got this one from the town so this has footprints as well, I mean the footprints are great on this a couple of issues though with this one by the time I got finished putting my dad on it it would have been so busy you wouldn't have wanted to read it with all the parcel lines on it and secondly, Steve I know what date was this I think it was done in the early 90s early 90s so there are a number of changes and I would have had to make do another overlay and change a ton of footprints on that one and somehow take up so I really had no base map to work from, aww shucks what are you going to do so I ended up making one almost out of out of hold cloth this is I mean that's just a screenshot of how clear it is on the next slide but that's the general shape of the current district and it includes the south extension of union, it includes all the buildings excuse me, north south along main street river road as you can see it still includes the state office complex and it includes the area up to the east you know the high street and railroad and I've been over this map on the boundaries with the state and they're good to go this is what we want to see we like the map, we like the clarity of the map a few things have been added that were not there we talked about the four courts the buildings on those we added the cemetery the park, Rusty Parker Park is now a property instead of just a park so it's described and the shaded properties are not contributing and the unshaded properties are considered historic so this is a draft now the state is going to go over this with the photographs in May they may ask for more information they may say I don't agree it's possible these are my determinations you just mentioned four courts the four court streets all called courts so those are all in there as an example you can see right above the papers there's that little water the two there but the way it's showing here those show is white but they're black I think it's just the numbers you can see Adams Court over there and Union Street they're all now included I don't think I had much more to say about that so you said the dark shaded ones are not contributing correct? alright so where did I get these footprints? I got them from Google Maps a lot of them and I was able just to trace open this is a to scale map which is kind of unusual in historic district maps normally they're like this drawn a conceptual map but this one here is actually to scale the footprints of the buildings aren't exact but they're they're fairly close but the map is a hybrid of several maps they put together and a lot of those footprints I drew in just by going to the property is there a garage? what's its location? so a bottom like this map ideally did I miss any? we're going to go over that but it includes everything except the garden shed there are various listed here and each building described as a historic or not a historic and I'll show you some pictures later of some of the garages we looked at did I miss one? what about the properties on the south side of Randall Street? oh this is just a screenshot they're all in there they'll around I don't want to make you nervous there they are okay so I really just took a snip yeah that's a map just to show the clarity so you can see here so here's 270 and you look up 270 in the text it gives you the address and a property description and then its garage for whatever reason is not considered historic 2702's garage is so is 274's and so on and obviously 275's is can you go back here? you have 270's you have two neighboring 270's why do I have that? I don't know but I think I corrected that in the actual map yeah I think I corrected that in the actual map this is kind of an older screenshot do you want me to go back here? yes I'm trying to find a park where the park is let me make a note of that so the house is on the corner so the ones that are all black in there is that the motel? well there's the shopping center which is the cluster of yeah I see that Crommoody Court that's the Washington County mental health building no she's talking about the Gateway Motel and the 200 Roads yeah those are all shaded in so the motels are reconstruction I guess they were made to put it back the way it used to be in the front so no they weren't made to do that they weren't required I thought they offered to reconstruct the crime building this space that we're here is not shade and dark Jane's house I know would be historic but I'm not going to split a building in half saying which is contributing and which is not if there is a historic front part of the house then that whole block gets shaded otherwise I mean it would be unbearably complex for me and for you particularly in Waterbury because there are so many buildings that have multiple extensions going back yeah so thank you for the 270 I think I got that but I made a note of it just in case so I went to show you detail what the map looks like and because this is a digital map this is the way to look on your computer I mean you can zoom right in the clarity gets better as you zoom in because it's digital so that was for mapping so what about data I got this top sheet from the town I hope that's not proprietary and then I converted that from my use on the right showing this is what I used out in the field folks saw me out there with clipboard for week after week so noting what the materials were and did I get my photos and the reason I do this and not from photos is because it's really hard to tell sometimes what shingles from asbestos sighting in a photograph and hardy plank from one and some of these things you really need to note and a brick foundation may just be visible and just a 10 foot section that you're not going to see in a photo so I'll try and find those things when you're on site and that's the way it looks when I'm out in the field trying to take notes and traffic and you know as I put this on I did notice one thing I put a little smiley face in that block which is sorry there's an actual reason for that because it says two over two wood with four light wood storm windows on there and I was pretty happy to see some original windows with some original storms and so that's how that little happy face ended up there because there's a lot of vinyl window replacement in Waterbury as you all know what about photos so I took about 1,500 photos in the district they're all digital got them all categorized here so you can see for example on the top right again this is just a screenshot two Elm street so seven pictures at least of two Elm and then what another six or seven or more than that of three Elm and those are all you can see the sizes of the images they're all between 3,000, 7,000, 8,000 so they're pretty high resolution images so you know the town will take possession of all these so you'll have 1,500 images all cataloged by street address and also about another 100 streetscape images and you can see them they're on the bottom here so I think this is a really good snapshot of 2018 so what ends up in the we're not putting 1,500 photographs in the national register nomination there are 305 properties now instead of 187 so we'll end up with 400 photographs total sort of because the way I've arranged it is I have some of these may get cut by Devin it's like a nice picture of a house and then maybe a detail of a house close up so this is a difference between 1978 and 2018 what we do for photographs so you can see that the old nomination there were only 35 photographs for 187 buildings that's because in those days I guess it was expensive you had to print them out and so on so they would take them in gangs of three and four instead of individually and they all get printed on glossy 8x10s I'm old enough that I did one of these printing the 8x10s and it was painful you really wanted to get that photo right before you had it printed so but we're not in that box anymore so yeah we'll have like 375 to 400 digital photographs in the nomination of this one I think this is 32 just kind of an example we'll try to get the houses a 3 quarter angle so we'll try to get one the long side and the short side and if the porch wraps around we'll try to get where it wraps around the other side and again some details that will include so in the top two we got a couple of architectural details I think both of those are on Randall street in the left you've got this gazebo backdrop by mountains by the way it seems like everything is backdroped by mountains in Waterbury at the end of every street there's a mountain right up a window in fact everywhere you look the backdrop is a mountain and it really makes it fantastic and you can certainly see that here there's one there there's one there so the curved does that belong to anybody here does that mean okay you know what's really impressive to me is they looked am I right they're curved sash up on the top the glass is curved underneath as well there's flat storm windows there but underneath the original windows the curves are they give you the feel of the very top windows pretty rare I only found one other I travel a lot I only found one other turret at curved glass most of them have been placed with flat glass one in St. John'sbury has got curved glass as well and I hunted and hunted trying to find more no I hope it's okay if we include it it's really an impressive feature and the scallop shingles and the conical roof with the finial and you know the whole thing like a z-bow backdrop by that beautiful sort of mountain scene again a random how many pictures are there of the commercial center of Waterbury are there like a hundred thousand I don't know but they're everywhere so we'll add a few more and the St. Wanooski street these are you know go back to the mid-19th century these two houses and there's just not a lot of Eve's front building in a Waterbury each front I mean the long side most of the gables show you see all these are all gable front these two are Eve's usually in much older house of federal style from 1850s 1860s and just like just beautifully preserved so again that's kind of a nice streetscape type shot that we can show so that's kind of it for photos so what about the building description so I'm showing you one a description of this building so that's how it was described in 78 I described it 18 so again was there some helpful stuff in the 78 guys sometimes some of the historical data was important like who lived here or something like that as far as the descriptions go those are read did those from scratch because so much had changed I'm not particularly in this one and that's one of the questions I had for you Skedmis who lived in that house it was so impressive but I've got a whole list isn't that the state office they just sold it they just sold it Dr. Groud's house Dr. Groud originally when it was built some of the houses are just so impressive you know that it was sort of the doctors and the business tycoons and then there's some fantastic workers housing and other places so that was just to give you a and here's kind of a standard description for a smaller building and I guess I don't need to do this now because I don't have an easel or a chalkboard but what I can do is sort of break down a description like this to relate it to a building and you don't need to be an architecture student or have any great grasp of architecture to figure these out most of the ones I've done standard form they start wood frame how many stories gable front we talked about that gable front that sim only means when this is facing the street instead of that piece side hall plan just means the doors are on the side instead of in the center a duplex we know that clapboard siding asphalt shingled roof it's got a rich chimney facade porch has tuskin columns tuskin just means round in and tassus that sounds fancy all that means is they taper at the top so it's really, you know, it sounds more complicated than it is and they rest on a shingled half wall which is the case with half of the villages the posts come down, they rest on kind of a solid railing that's shingled or sided the clad corner boards rights to meet open eaves decorates open eaves means there's not a box around your soffit it just means they're open and verge board means that fancy trim that goes down the eaves maybe half a dozen houses waterbury gingerbread there you go exposed rat so all of these things the exercise that I plan to do there's not time to do it today I'm going to draw the house based on that description and see how close we actually come to the house which is that now I have seen it before but I'm going to really plain Jane show you how we come up with that house from that description I'm not saying anything else it doesn't disqualify it I mean it really depends if it's lost everything plus an addition yeah so some of the garages that we looked at again none of this was included in your last nomination so the two on the top are considered non-contributing there have been too many changes you can't really read what that was the roof it probably had an actual hay door and then maybe some wood doors down below this one on the bottom left you know that's got a pyramidal roof it's got these exposed rafter tails it's got its original tube base now it's missing its doors right but that's not enough to disqualify it I mean we're not these sort of hardcore purists about this if you can more or less read what it was and it's fairly intact we're going to err on the side of including it we're not in we're here to include not to exclude properties and on the white right the bottom right this is the one that that makes my it's just got it all I mean I hope that they understand how rare that is at 27 North Bay wood siding a 4 over 4 historic window Eve returns, freeze board, quarter boards it's got the original 6 light over wood panel doors it's just it's just great and there are several like that but that may be the best example so could you bring these two back could you make those eligible you might get that question a lot well if it's not eligible can I make it eligible you could for that one I'm not exactly sure how old that one is but if you put clapboard siding back on it and then put a decent door you know would we have considered it historic probably would have erred on the side of it's got a few tear building down and you rebuild it to the more or less original design that's not you can't list it can you like the gateway were they rebuilt it to the measure drawings of what it was more or less that's a good question Steve I talk about that in the description of the gateway I said you know give this building more time to sort of settle into its new skin it really was a nice faithful reconstruction of the building and I think it could be re-listed as eligible but it's too soon right now you want to give it at least 10 years for a building it's a little different for a bridge because a bridge is important for its engineering which you can reconstruct faithfully with covered bridges and so on what was the original the original what was the gateway originally where it was burned what was the original was it a person's house or was it a William Allen house and then George ran a little bit later so here's another thing that I'm going to try to speed this up we tend to four I'm getting through this so these are buildings from the late 1950s to 1965 and they were excluded from the 1978 nomination and they included them in this one as being eligible for the National Register this is an agma mid-century called minimal traditional style post-bore construction and although it's not really sort of ornately architectural it has some distinct elements it's sort of like the ranch size the gabled roofs that sometimes intersect small dormers the corner window, one on the bottom left is kind of a unique feature of this style these, and if you notice one thing they all have in common is they have one bay entrance uh, hoods on posts most of them space, sometimes they're cantilever and that's another distinct element there is one one of these I think it may be five I think it's, I have to look back in the nomination still has its original steel divided windows so that's an important feature but that's very few have those I've seen some in New York but I mean to go back to that property and make sure that they're steel before I say they're steel and if they are again, I sure hope that they don't get changed but not everybody listed property either knows or necessarily cares that those windows are a really unique feature from the mid-60s and that helped define the character of that building so it's kind of a new take on what most people would see as sort of fairly modest structures I've got a page printed of this, I'd love to leave it with you because I really appreciate it if you had time to go over it this is kind of again in the talk you can see the total property survey 178 then 305 now plus I don't know, 40 garages the breakdown then, they only had nine not contributing today out of the 305 it's 56 that number may get tweaked a little bit when the state looks at it, up or down sort of hard to say these are the demolitions here, I don't know if I got them all I mean I certainly know what's there now but sometimes it's a little difficult to say every building demolished and a couple of them don't have addresses like 84A we can help you by reviewing that and then the buildings the next box down is the buildings that have lost integrity so they've been changed substantially since the original nomination so they were included then but not included now again I've got that print out here to leave you is it because of the interiors? no, we don't know everything I do inside anybody's house no everything I do is from the right away, the public right away so that's why when you see a picture of the back of a house or of its barn they may be a little hidden or this or that because I don't walk down the driveway and take a picture of it my job is to stay in the public right away I have a question about why the LaRox house was one of the ones not included on South Main Street because the original part of that house was built at the same time as the houses on Swayze Court in the 1960s the number's 142 right the minor street address is 1.20 which was built in 1952 for the 2009 edition I think that's what this was was it shaded? and I haven't shaded out it was hired for me to get a close look I'll be happy to take a look at it with you if we can do it after sure we can look at it happy to take a second look I've already got a print out Steve of all the building descriptions so I'm going to leave you with a copy of the map full size map all the building descriptions and this sheet so this is if and when you all had time to look it over to kind of proof that because that's really sort of the nuts and bolts of this going forward so what's the status and what's the timeline so this is what's done let's start at the top the mapping is done just doing final review going to make sure about that 270 building descriptions done final review photographs are complete the historic intro is at 80% and the statement of significance are 80% so those are two pieces of text that go with the National Register one sort of like a brief history of Waterbury and then the second one is why are these buildings significant in the National Register status I don't really have much left and it says form 60% well that's only because when these pieces are done they just they make up the form which is really not a big deal I just I need to have them completely finished when you have a duplex two owners do listos I'm asking that because 270 270A might be a duplex it's beside me I'm going to leave I'm going to leave that one with you I think each building gets a number lefty and I think that it's probably 269 but I think a duplex it's a side by side even with separate owners I think it's just one structure for historic it's going to show as one structure on my map and it's going to have one number but when you look at the 911 address it'll say 15 slash 17 so you'll be able to tell which ones are duplexes that way as far as the owner and who gets notified before the listing we'll try to notify both yeah we'll work on that so that's kind of the status of where things are so Steve you asked about the timeline if I could bring that I spoke to the state this morning just to double check on things the old draft of DHP May 21 so that's hopefully I have a work it out with Skip to meet you to cover my list of questions and and whomever else I want to sort of round table it again because I've got a list of questions the next thing that once that is approved it runs through the you've looked at it and everybody says it's a go it gets posted online by the division on June 26 that same day the letters go out to the property owners and it will show them where to go to look at the nomination because you're asked for your concurrence the only way you get listed in the national register is if you agree it's not like the state register state register just gets a listing the national requires properties once you finish your work and submit it that usually it's accepted the nomination will be accepted but some properties if the owner objects don't need to be but the nomination itself will go in unless every single property owner says no but there are a lot of advantages particularly for commercial buildings with tax credits and so on and you can get a very cool plaque to put on your property with the date this building is listed in the National Register of Historic Places by the National Institute that's pretty cool so the next thing happens is the review by the Vermont Advisory Council that's sort of the last state step before it goes to the federal government and you can see that that June is the month before so they need that draft posted a month before their meeting that's why those days line up and then the submitter to the park service goes on or about August 17th and then the final listing several months later October 30th I was surprised actually it would be this fall I was thinking it was going to be the spring but it would be the spring and Devin thought by the end of the year that was his prediction but this is a little more ambitious I think it may be a little ambitious but that's what I, you know we follow this timeline which we will that's where we end up accepted does it, does Water Bear or the village have one incorporated report you know the 1978 standing and then this 2018 standing does it sort of mesh together or are they float around separately well the 1978 listing it goes away this supersedes it so this incorporates everything but you'll still have two listings you'll have this one which is the state hospital complex which is incorporated in so if you want more information on the state hospital complex you're going to have to go to that other listing but it's referenced but this update really does bring everything it's a package supersedes the 78 and incorporates the state hospital because if you see the descriptions and the pictures of the 1978 properties they didn't look a little different it's valuable to keep those 35 images are great to keep their record of their time and it's amazing how much has changed in some of the properties a couple of things that are really heavy about the change is one of the windows there must have been a vinyl window manufacturer nearby or because the one over one vinyl replacement windows are even on high style buildings often their buildings are to change to one over one I'm not making any judgment call I'm just noting that back and another big change has been the loss of wood siding let me show you one quick this is just an example of some of the things I can show you at the public meeting the Waterbury Inn and then the 1970s bank really loved that if that was still here I would have advocated for that building being historic and then the way it looks today and this is a really lovely restoration of this building this was converted to a housing project it's extraordinary they put back these door hoods with the brackets and coins and the corner boards the whole thing is pretty remarkable and then here's sort of another one, two, three this is also on my list for a skip bottom left, I'm not sure with the date but there's a little railroad car there these are all showing where the Conti buildings were and if you can make it out it's a little bit blurry I'm not sure what that was it could have been a little there or a little repair shop that building burned that's why it had to be put back differently the Conti building with the Brown building that burned to the ground so that's one of my what years burned and again that's on my list and this is just a quick example of the you can't see it all that well the walls of that building it's got these sunburst patterns and scalloped and sawn shingles and it's got this scalloped pattern slate roof and so on and then today it's a little dark this is really unique that's called Eastlake style decoration it's still there but pretty much everything else is gone you know the brackets and all of the slate roof and the woodwork or is it underneath the blanket I suspect there are quite a few houses in Waterbury that are going to get some big surprises when they pull off their vinyl siding and maybe they're going to find this stuff because it's not necessarily that stuff was in bad condition vinyl was simply in vogue in style Perkins Brecher funeral home like a big hex something under the vinyl I got a picture of it oh is that right and then again I'll add a couple more for next week again you can see the 1 over 1 vinyl windows in here again you'll see it it seems like 80% of the buildings maybe 90% but look up in the gable sometimes they don't change the gable window because nobody's living up there nobody has to open and close it so you can often see what the historic window looks like by looking up in the gable so there you've got a nice double hung 4 over 4 true divided light wood sash window which is kind of cool and it's still there and then I think this is my last slide I'm not sure I got I'm pretty sure we were going to be running late by the time I got here which we are so I didn't really put a lot on here I would say that the vinyl siding it might be interesting at some point to see a demonstration product in Waterbury where it comes off because other towns have done that I've seen there are a number of buildings on Winooski Street for example that used to have asbestos siding that's gone so there must have been a program to remove it at some point because a lot of wood siding and then when I read the 1978 nomination it says asbestos shingles I am predicting that at a certain point real estate agents are going to have there's going to be some trouble with vinyl siding buildings once it's been on for 30, 40, 50 years with some suspect about what's underneath because vinyl is very good at keeping water out it's also very good at keeping it in and you don't want that water trapped in the building can play havoc with the building so forget about the historical side of it purely practical and if you look at the preservation trust newsletter last year I wrote a piece on how to how to remove it and how to check it to see what you've got underneath very few modern intrusions great use of back lots to extend buildings as opposed to going out the sides to residents incredibly helpful and friendly I mean not everybody likes having photographs taken to your house let's face it I only ran into one instance where somebody really gave me a pretty hard time about photographing their building so I did it on the other side of the street again that's a lot of I talked about the vinyl windows and the siding and so on so you know I've got sort of more general notes that I can cover about that because if and when the next meeting happens Steve I'm not going over the mechanics of the survey how I made the map but I thought for you all you want to see that I have a question about windows though because we had an energy audit done on our brick house after the flood one of the things they recommended was window replacement because we had the weighted ones and so that meant that all those cavities around them were empty which you had a lot of heat left so we replaced the downstairs but not the upstairs we were going to do that but we replaced them with wood replacements we did replace them so is that better than vinyl I'm suppose but not as good as trying to use on one of the originals correct you know often it's not really so much about the material it's more about the the appearance and the design yeah you know like everything in Vermont was made to look like something else half the stuff we got here was made to imitate stone and it's wood or terracotta so the fact that it's one material instead of another it's a lot about the design and the color and the appearance often you know the bright white windows are a little bit distracting on some of the high style sort of richly decorated buildings you know that's true I'll just say it can they be painted sure they absolutely can but again I make no judgment about them well for us too I live in three houses on South Main Street and they're very high and I can't get out there and clean the windows and take the storms off anymore so the tip in windows were a a lot better replacement a lot better I mean if you're really fond of you've got really nice wood windows you can put in new tracks and have them spring loaded I mean you can do things like that too I'm sort of at the end well let's wrap it up okay Scott thank you for your presentation we'll be hearing more because unless anybody has any other questions we should move on to the rest of your meeting sorry about taking so long no thank you and there may be a third meeting prior to the public meeting because hopefully the village is going to go away after 30th of June so the select board will be the responsibility and one of the things is talking with them do they want a briefing similar to this that they weren't involved in getting it started so they could be up to date and then when the final decision comes it's the select board would be responsible with all the zoning and things so will it still be the Waterbury Village district regardless of I think we'll call it probably Waterbury Village district we still have a village it's not going to be I just want to make sure I didn't have to change any names I don't know that's my thought it won't have any governmental implications well this doesn't say Waterbury Village Inc anyway so but it's been very helpful I appreciate that thank you trustees for funding that and getting that done so you support the listing I think South Beach is a beautiful part of town and I said definitely not but that was the implication you know when we then I was built before this one but yeah I appreciate that you have some thank you very much so here is the I'll look at the this because I'm going to give a short name I'm going to leave behind 10% 20% 20% 20% 20% 20% 20% 20% 20% 20% there's a lot of things I can get out of that that's why I got to take it carefully yeah you can't be that much of a treasure if you didn't get him out two years ago what kind of car is it what kind of car is it what kind of car is it what kind of car is it what kind of car is it what kind of car is it next up on the agenda was the update on the the update on the charter change approval with the legislature and Paul Giuliani and we met with the legislative council and the two Waterbury representatives last week to go over some language and to kind of clarify what was attended and we agreed to some changes that I think they've made to the proposal and things they clarified that the village was accepting its property and assets and liabilities of the current village will go to the district it said shall you know retain the assets and liabilities they also we agreed to take out the option to expand the district that the boundaries would be fixed at the current village and there wouldn't be an option to expand those as had been included in the past and also the village would have the option to add a property tax to maintain its properties and things the current physical assets that we own sewer monies have to be kept separately and can only be spent on those facilities but if we wanted to maintain or make repairs to Rusty Parker park or the Elm Street parking lot or do something down by the ice center we would have to find other than water and sewer funds to do that and if we wanted to there could be a tax assessed to do those improvements it all come through the budget process at the annual village meeting which I think would be in May is when we put it so the process would be much the same you know the voters would have to approve the budget and you know if there was a tax to generate those funds so I you know it's optimistic that those are in agreement and if the committee agrees with those then it would be passed out of the operations committee and go to the full house for approval and then over to the senate both Tom and Teresa have said that all the discussions on these things happens in the house that the senate is more of a formality that they let the house do all of the discussions and things so I think by the end of the session we're hopeful that it's all passed but Paul Giuliani has been very helpful with the legislative council in explaining you know what was intended in the language and things that perhaps when Bill and I were there in the past you know they didn't really take our explanation as they didn't pay attention they didn't pay attention yes so about the discussion that was in the paper from the man who lives next to the wire work you know because it didn't make any sense to me because he was going to have more say now than he lit up if it he didn't show up again and I don't think he gave him any language and it really wasn't your main to what we were doing there yes Anne so if the sale of 51 South Maine goes through after the charge changed where does that money go to the district commissioners to set it aside it has nothing to do with water and sewer so it would sort of go into the village the village accounts yes you know we have a tax stabilization fund and we have the UDAG money so we've said that those would be continued in the same way that they have I would suspect that we would put it in with a tax stabilization money that you know unless you have a tax it isn't really necessary and things and that would be funds that we could use for non-water and sewer related purposes maintenance that you talked about trading for could be used as a maintenance budget yes yes where do those two funds stand is that public knowledge the the tax stabilization fund is probably $400,000 or so the UDAG fund the total assets are about 1.6 million about $950,000 of that is lent out and the balance is available in cash mostly investments in the committee a couple weeks ago and things wanted a copy of our audit that showed where all those funds are maintained and that the water and sewer funds and budgets are all separate and things so they were really you know wanted to see that that's actually state law that you can't you know water and sewer are proprietary funds and you can't you know use them to do with it so expect to have an answer in this legislative session yep yep I attended a gentleman street event last week who Tom Stevens was friends over the fifth year by the fellow here who was fortunate to be the chancellor and I asked a question as to and I know will I'm not going to agree with it, that's not the first time when in the housing relinquished responsibility if that's the right term of Stimson graves in the seminary building in the center Stimson graves which I recall being involved with at that point in time that loan should have been paid off and down street should have been negotiated with the trustees for a similar loan which I think was $217,000 correct me if I'm wrong for 30 years with no interest and Eileen indicated that it was approved by it's downstream attorney and she said by the town attorney maybe she said town versus village but my question is in talking with lefty about it maybe with you as well as with you at some point I don't recall any legal information of being in a minute of meetings whether anybody representing the village agreed to that situation and she said the other night she knew about it the town attorney and down street attorney concurred they didn't have to worry about that the cost of transitioning to Stimson graves in a seminary building was $324,000 I have those figures I have an extra copy anybody wants one but they have two extra copies and they have financial report and they had cash available something like $860,000 I think it was so my point being we would not have been doing anything negative to their organization or to the continuation of Stimson graves if the trustee did that the opportunity to renegotiate maybe with the same terms or maybe not but I think that something needs to be looked at and find out just what the truth is because 30 years gone by now close don't we no but the question is it going to change the value of the amount for the down streets I don't know if lefty remembers but we can certainly look into that and if it's legally required to address it and if it isn't we'll have to deal with what the documents say at the time and as the reading minister well, Tyler has those the official ones so that's where it would be if it was in there when was that long done he just said it was 790 so we can look into that later next up on the agenda was discussion about 51 South Main Street that I put on here that we had talked at the last meeting about you know the cost of having it you know demolished you know the cost of having it you know demolished and things and whether or not we've also kicked around the possibility of subdividing the lot how much does parking that Chris Parsons would need and whether that would be room enough to subdivide and things so I put on here you know I drafted up some things for an RFP to go out to have both Lydia and Alex Tuscany to look at the RFP and maybe bring it back to the trustees at you know our next meeting in May to kind of approve going out and also to have Steve or whoever is to take a look at what Chris Parsons has proposed and how many parking spaces would he need could that be you know addressed on the lot and what it would leave you know left over and whether that's feasible to look into subdividing that and possibly selling that to the town and you know selling the other part to Chris Parsons there so I put together some things also another party has come forward and expressed an interest in looking at 51 South Main Street perhaps you know reusing it as is the building and things you know whether that's an option I know Zeb Town is here today I think you know he's looked into it with his wife and things I don't know if you'd like to say a few words about what you were looking at or not you know I've we can introduce yourself for the camera and the I was at town you're not here as the dog catcher today no not today thank goodness he's a good one I could we were thinking of keeping the buildings to see if it's what can be saved and maybe like fill in the basement so that's not there but keeping what the building looks like using the most I saw there were some old lamps when we went through a little tour that were originally on the building that were gas that were turned to lights and I think the ice would bust them off that would be cool to get back on the outside Nina shop the flower shop would be in the like the downstairs front area and where the police department was and there's like an upstairs space could be another section and then you can come in the front door and go upstairs and have office spaces upstairs and I would thought of hearing that parking is a big issue my came up with a design for like 46 car spaces 16 would be for the building for the people renting the offices people stopping in at the flower shop the other spaces would be you know like the two hour parking for shoppers people coming down to 3 hour I don't know what usually is one of those things that you put in and that'd be business hours and after hours I guess it could be as long as you wanted to go to the buyers at the end or whatever you know downtown kind of making the entrance a little bit bigger moving the fire hydrant so it'd be like two lanes so there would be traffic congestion with any of the cars coming in and out solar powered car port for the charging of the electric cars couple of things like that we saw in the black parking lot and that's kind of what we were so you were looking into you know I know you've looked at the RFP we did for and that the trustees were looking for $200,000 from a lot so you're looking into the possibility of funding and stuff of that yeah yeah and I saw on the paper there been some money for like I don't know if that was just like brought in for the parking lot itself I've read in the paper that $37,000 that other people were thinking of coming up with it to help with parking I'm sure the town has offered something but they wanted a 99 year lease to go with it which is that amount actually owning it so you know if you wanted to get 30 parking spaces for $37,500 for 99 years that would be a pretty good deal so I don't think anybody's looking seriously at being a practical thing to do there so Subdivision idea work here though Pardon? The subdivision idea work here where you subdivision parking the village and then that of course reduces the what you would get for the half like you'd make it up with the other half You know this has left these ideas that you know we're looking to formalize and know just what you could do for a subdivision and how many spaces you would get and then depending on the size of the lot what's that worth versus you know the part with the existing building and we've also set aside $50,000 to take down and make it into a parking lot during Main Street construction and we've all don't know what it really costs so sending out an RFP folks you know to get real costs to do it maximizing the amount of materials that could be recycled or reused and things there's still the issue of there's some asbestos in there in some of the things I don't know if you're going to tear it down and send it to the landfill does that have to be removed if you're restoring the house you need to get it out of there I don't have the answers to that. I'll speak to that a little bit because we're going through at the flato property because there's a recent law passed on that so you have somebody come in they see how much is there and then they oversee it going and you pay somebody to monitor it and taking it out we finally got our plan approved that's why that's Bill has been sitting there because we didn't have a... quote of $6,000 to remove it out of $51. Dan Johnson did the investigation and we need to get it in writing for him to use the report which we haven't done yet so so this will be getting information about the real costs of removal and demolition and or subdividing and things I think if we approved RFP at our next meeting it'd take couple three weeks to get back and it'd be something we would have the costs looking at in June and at the same time if you could you know look at how many spaces Chris Parsons proposal would require and how that could be fixed on the lot and things those would be two pieces of information that we would use to look at deciding where we would go with this in negotiations either with Chris or what options the trustees would recommend so I mean I come up with I already designed like a whole parking lot with all those spaces measured all that stuff out there just you know I went out with the tape and taped some stuff off and designed a few different parking lots three so far I've come up with I did different size spacings do you have a two-way drive? yes two-way drive I was going to see where the hydrant could be moved to and I was planning on leaving at least 10 feet off the brick building because the fascia is the boundary line but I figure material falling off and snow removal at least leave 10 feet for brass base and then along the building the municipal building would just be like a painted walk area instead of a raised sidewalk so it would be a little more clear and I think that was giving me 10 or 11 feet on the lanes so that's about 10 for this travel way with and I didn't know what your guys' parking sizes were but I know I measured some of them and the ones you have there some of them are smaller and some were the same size as the ones that I planned on the ones that are behind the building more bigger than the ones that are up against the other one and just those white spaces and I figured I think five motorcycle parking spaces in a spot that wouldn't be really used long enough for power spaces but you can get the bikes at an angle so you can fit more motorcycles in there and the ones on the south side would be good for like one of the charging a charging thing because that will happen in the future, those are popping up everywhere so you also getting some estimates for what restoration type that's yet well it was tough knowing like I didn't know where all this stood like am I is it too late to come in and be like hey this is what I think because I do need to get in there probably for two days to measure and see what's in there or whatever to be able to figure out what the house is because I didn't get up in to see what was leaking in the roof and I figured it would take at least two days to go over the whole thing to figure out what me and Chris Jendro could rebuild it for. I don't have a real problem with you looking at it and things you've heard our kind of schedule where we're kind of progressing and if in the meantime you wanted to look further with the idea that at some point you may want to make an offer but knowing just kind of where we are that's why I really do about the parking that's no problem I mean Nina's runs the flower shop that's good for business all the way around to have more parking and then be trafficked by her store so that's that's totally. And we have said that we are going to take it to a vote of the village people would whatever proposal we come up with that we think we recommend going forward you know there would be a public meeting and with the lease there the other thing was like what would you guys would you be planning taking care of like the whole area well we're not going to take care of anything so that's what I mean the town like if the town has it and there's a lease on it like what was you know with the good grass spaces around the old like those are just some so if we subdivide it they would be totally responsible if we don't then it would be up to the town to kind of negotiate you know whatever use you were to allow them and what they were willing to do for it so that would be something totally outside our control to do yeah I just didn't know that I don't know I don't think they've even talked about it yes you know came up with that thirty seven five but that town meeting it was passed with a condition they got to own them for thirty ninety nine years and things so you know I know Chris Parsons didn't think that was a real he didn't want to tie up those lots for ninety nine years necessarily if you know whatever there were a cloud bowl haha oh you folks have anything to add to that or no I just think that if you pursue and dig in and want to make a proposal that that is something that that is the next step I guess so it's not too late to do anything we like you said we are moving forward we've been working with Chris Parsons there's interest it just kind of keeps shaping a little differently you know the way we're considering you know the TD Bank we don't know what's happening with parking there it's just caused a lot more attention and maybe you know that consideration is what we have in our sites 451 South Main and so that we're trying to create you know maybe some more standard parking but nothing is set so we can appreciate notified interest that would have to come in the form of a proposal so that it it has all of the piece parts that you can clearly state and you're intense because we need to review them and then share that with the village voters and then be the final viewer and decider so I'll just hold the person for a couple of days I'll get over you yeah have Woody here nobody cuts as far as the previous arrangements for plowing and mowing there was no written agreement on it the town just basically did it but there was no I think from the village to the town right as long as the village owns it I think I direct the town we take care of the cost centers within the budget but it's in the private ownership if it skips that if the property is subdivided whoever owns one will be responsible for that property and whoever owns the other will be responsible for that if it's if the town decided to exercise its lease option if you will I think that's unlikely yeah I'd like to just say two things I didn't know anything about this whole thing but I know for the years that we've been discussing 51 South Main Street there's people who would like to do the modern housing and all that but there's also a large group of people who have wanted to keep that historical house and I know there are plenty of reasons why not but there was a mentality out there that a lot of us have really awfully damaged houses that we moved back into so I think that might satisfy the group of village people secondly I just want you to know that Chris Gendro is amazing he's restored the farmhouse built around barn it is integrity about historical preservation is just amazing so I was I think that you're dealing with some people who they might not be professional developers but they definitely are people who have integrity and the ability to make it work so I want to say that you didn't hear anything about it because they only started two weeks ago Chris is working on her house right now but I mean the interest in trying to do something in terms of the trustees that the tipping over of the oil tank in that building put in in a much worse condition than the houses we went back into that's what happened to the family physical therapy too that happened they all cleaned up they did it's back so I know but I'm just saying that and I also this guy he must have started his new business but we worked with him on the historical preservation name for the grant yes he knows so there's money and I forget the form I think if you has to do with the cost of the land versus the cost of the building if you take out the cost of the land if you put more than 50% in you get some money back from the historical preservation well I think we're talking about the historic tax credits it was helping to rehab the buildings and that used to work because I dealt with it twice when we were going to buy the big old house he came down and told us that the village wasn't eligible for that the village wasn't a private person could be ready I don't know I know the tax credit program is available both state and federal because it's listed as all I know is he came down to the big old house and he took out the cost of the land which left the big old property at that point we had a contract for 105 it was for 55 and once we spent over 55 the state of Vermont we paid between 30 and 50% of the rest to rehab that might have been part of the flood when it was before the flood but okay well I'm not sure if you knew some of that if it was the old house if it was the elevation there you'd have to check with yeah I can you come in tomorrow or yeah we can talk about that okay we're calling so given all that you're welcome to continue working on your thing and we're gonna proceed with getting these RFPs and if you want to keep in touch you know please do that we'll do you know nobody knows anything is possible till the deed changes hands so alright thank you wait we have a question maybe it was more general I just didn't know if that was an offer for other folks as well in terms of people who want to present proposals I applaud the trustees moving forward getting RFPs and just continuing to move the process forward well we're getting RFPs to take it down on the web yes and to subdivide well we're looking at asking you're letting them to a proposal so if somebody else wants to investigate like Zeb is doing are you willing to listen to that sure we're not gonna advertise it but if they want to do it we did the advertising before and we add that's for right now from the last two meetings my sense had been that the trustees were considering taking down the building or going with Chris Parsons proposal so I haven't done anything for we're negotiating we're negotiating we're negotiating yes everybody at the present time is there anything definite that can be shared or not suggesting that you should share if you have it we have no knowledge of P.D. Bank come on over here yes thank you thank you yes yes yes yes yes yes so I guess I would like the minutes to show that we would like to have the public works director and Bill and his staff to come up with an RFP for the trustees to look at at our next meeting with regard to you know demolition of the building and getting a cost and I've written down some things I think we wanted to include in there like maximizing the amount of materials that are either recycled or reused you know restoring the site to you know fill it in the cellar hall and grading it for parking and I can give you you don't have to write these down but I can give you this and I also would like to store the or save the stones from the cellar hole that they would be removed and stored down at the ice center and use it to build a real stone wall at the parking lot at the Elm Street we had the old stone foundation from the building we took down there but they disappeared from down at the ice center by the time we got to build the parking lot so this would put a real stone wall back in and things and you know identifying that there's a I don't know what the size of the vault is there that's fire proof that needs to be taken out of the building too you can sell it take out that and then also we would have if best of possible to look at the parking required for so that the minutes would show that we would if possible look at that at the next meeting yeah, I'll prepare something is that agreeable to some information and folks going forward and the minutes will show the trustees will look into the Simpson-Grace Seminary Building with Down Street if you said you would so I assume you will it will be interesting we'll look into the legal aspects of whatever document my calculation is you're only four years left on that I guess next up was minutes Bill had a couple things I was going to do them after the minutes yeah you have minutes of every one of these meetings that's the only one we have you did those and let me just look at that that was the meetings we had without Bill oh yeah a bit and a cruiser what's that moving to South Carolina nothing to do no there's nothing in South Carolina isn't that where you just went I drove through it I'll make a motion to approve the minutes of the trustee minutes for April 11th second motion has been made and seconded to approve the village trustees minutes of the meeting of April 11th all those in favor say aye aye motion passes next up you had a couple things yeah this is just a minor issue Jeff Kilgore is moving on from his law firm he is going to continue as the county probate judge and got a relationship with Stackpole and French from Stowe evidently he will be of counsel to that firm so this letter just asks if will we pick up all of our records and take them get a different attorney or is it okay to just have to go to Stackpole and French I think as you know we as the town and village don't really have a dedicated municipal attorney we use Bal Giuliani for a lot of municipal corporations bond council we use Spitzel and Page for a lot of our land use planning stuff we've used Jeff's office we've used Chris Nordle and Barbie and those so my recommendation would be simply let the files go to Stackpole and French you're still going to have a relationship with them if we ever should need anything you know Jeff is still going to be available through that office so that's what my recommendation would be but I just wanted to make sure the trustees do and if you thought you wanted to do something different you'd have to let me know so he'd still be able to represent us in some more matters or he's getting out of it all together he's transitioning out of his private practice I'm not sure what it exactly means when he will be serving of council to that firm but I think if there was something that we really needed to have somebody dig into as long as he's there he might do that but I think for the purposes of keeping files it's just as easy to let it go there you know if we have occasion to use Jeff and he says no I don't do that anymore and we're not happy with the choices at that firm we can move it at any time but I think for now I would just recommend let the files go there we have copies of everything anyway well pretty much probably well all the illegal stuff in the vault anything that's been recorded or filed or anything else we obviously have all of that but that okay was that was good to me made sense to give him a good chance you can show that the trustees agreed with Bill's recommendation let the files go with Jeff there okay keep it do the same thing just do it at the same time do you want to review the budget sure it won't take past five o'clock alright I don't think it will take past ten o'clock that's even better we have a we have a five percent right it's like it's ready it's ready it's ready it's ready so anyway this is a budget report I did it through today as opposed to well we haven't finished the end of April yet anyway and there's nothing special to point out here we did sell the cruisers as the trustees know we took that action while I was away we budgeted $16,000 for the sales of those assets and the actual revenue generated from the sale while I was at the first cruiser was $21,301 they may have been a few other assets that were sold before that but $18,000 something for the SUD $25,000 so on the revenue side under other governments up to the top I have to look at the water and sewer is this really $600 million at all a gas refund is all for the would have been for the police cruisers as opposed to some of it going to the water department sewer department so I'll look at that but right now it's showing that you've got more than we did budget anything but I need to get something there's really nothing else on the revenue side we don't expect a lot of revenues we already have except for the transfer of $75,000 we already have more than we expected or almost as much as we expected to get and then in terms of the expenditures very minimal the professional and consulting services I think part of what we just saw earlier is there the historical district is professional and consulting services we have the bill for any legal services in the general government for this year $50,000 that we talked about for the building is there the town I had the town pay the full administrative service fee to the village or the village pay the full administrative service fee to the town already because I was suspecting the village would be out of business by June 30 so that's been paid um insurance um one about a half of that has been paid the other half of the general government insurance before the end of June and that's it really the police department is along with us when is there a rent? end of May we got one more month to pay on that police department issue I would if you could let the minute show that the trustees really thank lefty for all his efforts to oversee the conditioning and taking care of the cruisers in the meantime and keeping the battery charged and getting the what's that rebate on the recall that he worked very hard to get the village $800 return so is that in here the trustees really express our head did you blow this I didn't question general maybe which could remember what happened with the police officer when the village goes to fault does that end most of those costs are being borne by the village's insurance company so all the court costs and the defense costs the village has had some expenses for associate lawyers and the lawyer that the trustees hired to kind of create the record and make sure due process was following during that but the lion share of the litigation costs in court have been paid by the insurance company if at the end of the day there's an award award that wages or anything the village may have a as opposed to the insurance company but we're still waiting for the final resolution I was just curious because if there's no village what is that the district assumes all the liabilities of the village so you don't get off that speaking about the Hubei case right not the potential slope that Joey might or might not come forward with in the journey we haven't heard any more on that but you were speaking specifically about the Hubei situations by the bills yes so and that's where the village if there was an award we had to pay that it could assess the tax to pay that because you couldn't use water and sewer money to pay it off but we could use money from the tax stabilization fund if we wanted to pay it off but you'd have a meeting to vote how you were going to pay for it but thank you no problem so is that it motion to adjourn for I put on their next meeting which would be second Wednesday of May for tonight that suits me okay I move the adjournment second it everybody say let's go