 is better. Like I'm not, I'm not going to argue, but having the cat and cranberry sauce at Thanksgiving, I was like, this is very nostalgic. Like I kind of missed it. I'm not gonna lie. It's really just a can of high fructose corn syrup to be honest. Yeah, pretty much. But that's why you like it so much. Yeah, it was like, and I haven't had it in so long that like, I wasn't tired of it anymore. I was like, Oh, this is, this is a fun, you know, trip down memory lane. I always get the song stuck in my head. I always want to come up with words to it. Oh, yeah. Make your own theme song. And then we can have a karaoke night. And sing it. And everybody will be so confused. Well, wait, you didn't come to my karaoke thing for my wedding. Because right before I got hitched the night before, I did like a karaoke at a Korean karaoke bar. No, I think I missed out on that. So it's so Jew and a bunch of other stuff. But it was great. Did I fly in the day of your wedding? Because I know I was there. I think no, you were there. I think you flew in the day of, yeah. Okay. It was fun. Was I there? I think it was fun. Yes. I remember being there, but I remember Eileen. And so by, by, by association, yeah, no, that makes sense. That tracks. That's right. Eileen was there. We took a picture together. Okay. So there's evidence. At least that she was there. Still no evidence. Well, I'm totally spacing on her names. Revision three. She worked with Max. Why can't I remember? Veronica. No, no, Veronica was there because you're talking Katie Katelyn. No, not Katie Hayes. She was, she was on camera. She did, she did, she worked with Adam Sessler. I just saw Mark Watson and Trisha Hershberger at an event. Nice. It was so fun. I do too. She's such a sweetheart. She's the best. We were 20 with our laptops. There is one Adam 12 in our chat room right now. One Adam 12. Happy Thanksgiving late, J-Rom 20. Good morning. Happy Thanksgiving. And thanks for the sub. And you too, windmill Steve. Thanks for the sub. 43rd month. Wow. Your name has no I. Who put an I in your name? Me. Oh. R-I-G-E-R. That's how you say it. Oh, it was just a typo. Because I've seen people put a D in your name constantly. That's how they slightly name it. Like Rod? Yeah. In fact, the first time I got an email from him at ZDTV, it had a D and I went and asked him like, is there really a D in Roger? And he's like, no, Lotus Notes just has it wrong. And I can't figure out how to change it. No, no, it's someone, whoever an H-R or I-T set it up. Because the name on my outside of my cubicle also had a D. Because Leo went by, it's like, you don't have a D in your name. It's like, I know. I told them that. I always thought that was like, well, that's just a weird thing. And then I saw other people who knew nothing about that would do it. Like who puts D in Roger? But a small subsection of humanity wants to just put a D in Roger. Roger Roche. Zoey says some people try to put a Y in her name. I could see that. Zo-Z-O-E-Y. Yes, that would be Dodger, not Roger. Maybe that's why. Maybe they're thinking of the Dodger. Although she did take over my desk. She should probably make sure everything is set. Recording. I have two R's and two T's in Merit. That throws people off sometimes. Have a good show, everybody. Good day, Internet. Good day, Internet. Good day, Internet. We, Usans, have had a long weekend with our Thanksgiving holiday and our Black Friday holiday. Did everyone have a good holiday? That was a delayed reaction, because I was like, what is it, Usan? It's from the USA. I get it now. I had to spell it out in my head. I had a relaxing one, sort of. I started Diablo 4, so. Oh, very nice. I must have had some spare time to crank that up. Very good. Very good. I had a friendsgiving and I didn't check email for three days, so yeah, it was good. Oh, that's great. That's wonderful. We had family over. It was like a raucous, full of food time on Thursday, and then just kind of chilled the rest of the weekend. It was good. Well, I hope you all had a wonderful past four days, even if you aren't in the United States. Let's do the show. Here we go. In three, two, the 10th year of Daily Tech News show is made possible by its listeners, thanks to all of you. That includes you, Tony Glass, and you, Philip Less, and you, Howard Yermish, and New Patron Doug. Everybody, welcome, Doug. Thanks, Doug. On this episode of DTNS, Shannon Morse vets the rumors about the Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra. Science confirms Zoom calls are exhausting, and while your local news is scared of iOS 17, the answer could kill you. This is the Daily Tech News for Monday, November 27th, 2023, in Los Angeles. I'm Tom Merritt. In Studio Colorado, I'm Shannon Morse. And I'm the show's producer, Roger Chen. It is the return from the long weekend here in the U.S. of A. I hope you all missed us. We missed you. It's good to be back. Let's start with the quick hits. Bleeping Computer is one of many outlets noting a growing number of Google Drive users posting on Google forums that their recent files and folder changes have disappeared. The user's activity logs show no recent changes, indicating no, they didn't just accidentally delete them. Offline caches might contain the missing data, but there are no clear instructions from Google on restoring from a cache. A post from Google support volunteers does say that Google product engineers are aware and investigating, and they advised Google Drive users who are affected not to make any changes to the root or data folder until the engineers provide further instructions. At the same time, Google is scheduled to begin deleting Gmail data and photos from inactive accounts starting December 1st. Now, I'm not trying to apply. There's a connection between these two, because I really don't think there is. But it's a good thing to know. Your account is considered inactive if it has not been logged into for more than two years. So if you've got a Google account you haven't logged into in a couple years, you might want to log in before December 1st. Reuters sources say TikTok parent company ByteDance will shut down much of its new-verse gaming division, which publishes Marvel's Snap, among other games. I know, it's sad. ByteDance told Reuters that it will quote restructure its gaming business after a review. Reuters said ByteDance told new-verse employees they must stop working on unreleased games by December. It's coming up quick. It's unclear where released new-verse games like Marvel's Snap or Crystal of Atlan will end up. Layoffs do appear to be underway. A ransomware attack against Fidelity National Financial has disrupted the ability to use the company or its subsidiaries related to title insurance, escrow, title-related services, mortgage transaction services, and technology related to the real estate and mortgage industries. So you can't use services like loan care, for instance, to pay a mortgage, and you can't get anyone on the phone because the phone system is down. The only public statement from FNF has been in SEC filing, which said we blocked access to certain of our systems, which resulted in disruptions to our business, you think. So if you can't pay your mortgage or get that title insurance approved, that could be why. Hopefully we don't get in trouble for not paying our mortgages. Yeah, right. Oppo's Realme line of phones announced that they have shipped 200 million phones in the last five years. Realme sells phones with decent specs for a discounted price. The Realme 11 Pro sells for less than 300 euros. The next flagship phone from Realme is the GT5 Pro yet to be announced. This is a piece of news that's helpful for people in the T-Mobile store, so they can go like, oh, Realme, you know, they ship 200 million phones. Oh, wow, you really know your phones. Wall Street Journal sources say that according to internal Amazon data, the company's in-house delivery system delivered more packages to U.S. homes in 2022 than UPS. This is Amazon trucks. This is Amazon's in-house shipping unit. We're not just talking about Amazon shipped a lot of packages. They also delivered them more than UPS. Amazon already passed FedEx back in 2020, so Amazon is now the largest package delivery business in the United States. Data indicates that Amazon will increase its lead on the others this year. All right, folks, if you've been seeing a promo on your local news either in Ohio or maybe in Detroit, they have been reporting that police have issued warnings about iOS 17. Shannon, the police are warning parents, beware of iOS. It's an Android user's dream. They're not saying don't use iOS 17. The Middletown Division of Police in Dayton, Ohio, I think, was the first to do this. They posted a warning on the Facebook page for the police about iOS's new name drop feature. That's the one that lets you touch two iPhones together, so you touch the heads of them together, and then you can share contact info. The process can be canceled very easily. In fact, just moving the device away often will interrupt it even if you want it to happen. Locking the phone will also interrupt it. Once the transfer is complete, you also have to approve sharing your info and accepting info from the other person. However, the police are warning parents to turn it off in the Bringing Devices Together setting under the AirDrop settings if they have children, so their children don't accidentally share their contact info. Shannon, I'm not against this warning, but does it deserve this much attention? It seems like this is out of proportion for the risk. Yeah, I feel like it's kind of clickbaity in a sense. It's running on that fear tactic of people not fully understanding how a new feature or a new technical aspect works of the devices that they already own. We see this kind of thing happen so often when it comes to mainstream media where people are just like, oh my god, your thing can get hacked, and you're like, well, I mean, it's a very, very specific use case. It's a very specific use case, and it does require you to be active. It sounds like you have to be actively using the phone in order for this to even work. Now, you have actually tested this, correct, because I'm an Android user. I haven't tried this myself. Yeah, and I think that's what caught my eye because if this had just been the local news saying there's a new feature to be aware of, I would have dismissed it. It's the fact that the police posted about it on their official pages that caught my eye, because yeah, I have run into this at conferences, at meetups with my relatives, where even to airdrop, you could actually airdrop photos this way, too. You just touch the tops of the phones together and then a little thing, you have to hold it there. You kind of have to push a little bit, and then a thing will pop up that says like, hey, this person wants to share their contact info. Are you cool with that? Do you want to send yours? And you say accept, and then it does it wirelessly, transfers all that info, similar to how airdrop works. I've had it not work a lot, because maybe somebody doesn't have iOS 17 yet. I've had it not work because your hands are shaky and just can't quite, it's like you have to hold it very still for it to be like, okay, no, we're really doing this, we're really doing this. So it's kind of hard to make this happen accidentally. Yeah, it does sound like this is something that I wouldn't be super concerned about. However, if you are a parent, there is a reason why you may want to disable this for your kids, especially if your kids are like going to school on public transit, like in a city, you might be a little bit more worried about them. I don't know, maybe meeting a stranger and getting groomed or something like that. Like you might want to worry a little bit there. You might get socially engineered into doing something like this, and your kids might not fully understand or grasp what they are transferring or sharing with another party. So in that sense, like, yeah, you might want to disable this. But I think for most people, since you do have to actively accept and or reject the data that is being transferred back and forth, I think that there is a sense of, okay, yes, it is opted in already, but you do have to actively choose whether or not you are sharing this data. It's very much like airdrop and it sounds like it's very, very much like nearby share for my my Android phones where I do have to accept the transfer before anything actually happens. Brian in our YouTube chat says, I'm in Metro Detroit, heard this on the news last night, thought it was a bit weird to hear this warning from the general news instead of DTNS. I thought so too. I'm like, there's nothing wrong with this. Shannon's absolutely right. If you're a parent, you might want to look into this just so your child doesn't get tricked into using it on purpose. It's not likely to accidentally happen. So I wondered, like, okay, why this? There's so many other things that are also risks or higher risks on a phone. Why are the police paying attention to this one? And it didn't didn't strike me that it is the new iOS 17 feature that the most people I know know about. Everybody who I've run into where I said, Oh, do you want to do the thing? They all know they're like, Oh, yeah, that thing where you tap it together. So maybe this feature just got more popular and more awareness. And that could explain why the police are like, Okay, everybody knows about this feature. So let's make sure people know that, you know, it's an on by default, which is another thing. Apple turned it on by default. They don't always turn these things on by default. Yeah, I think you're right in the sense that like it's it's the popular thing. So I think it's the thing that everybody is grasping onto. But without understanding how the entire system works, there's a little bit of I want to say misinformation, but there's a little bit of skepticism or again, that fear that's coming into this explanation. Yeah, I would hurry to add, I almost said hesitate to add, I would hurry to add that there are lots of other things you should pay attention to on your children's phone, you know, and look those up, don't feel like if you turn this one off, you've done everything to protect the phone. Yeah, I don't think it's a bad thing necessarily that police are warning like, hey, this is a thing. But for me, I would say okay, and or okay, but there is additional information that you should know about how to use this. All right, we've talked about Zoom fatigue before on the show. It's a thing a lot of people have talked about since video conferencing became much more widespread back in 2020. Previous studies have been done on self reported feelings indicating that there's a real effect. People say they feel exhausted. They say they feel a little more drained after a video conference. But for Austrian scientists wanted to find out if there's physiological effects that it's not just self reported. So they have published a paper in the journal scientific reports called video conference fatigue from a neuro physiological perspective, experimental evidence based on EEG and ECG. So scan in the brain, scan in the heart. In other words, they didn't just rely on self reports. Participants in the study viewed a lecture, some of them in person, others over a video conference, and then they had their heart rate measured, their cognitive attention at tasks measured while they did the tasks. And they were also asked about their mood. So there was some self reporting data in here too, but it wasn't the only data they had. And they did all of that before the lecture and after the lecture for everybody who was in person and everybody who watched it on zoom or whatever video conferencing app they used. The lecture was about 50 minutes long. And they found that those who watched the video conference showed signs of fatigue that there was evidence that their brain had to work harder than the people who were there in person. That's really interesting. I mean, it kind of makes sense in a way like I remember sitting in classrooms and just like falling asleep when I was in college. But that's when I was younger and I didn't fully understand a grasp like my health and how I can stay awake and what interests me the most. Sure, sure. Yeah, and that is one of the things about this. They did it in an academic setting, not an office setting. The mean age, like the average age was 24. So these are young folks. They didn't do an all ages thing. And they admit this in the study. This is good science. They're saying, you know, we notice that self reporting indicates this. We wanted to see if there are physiological effects. We noticed there was physiological effects, but our sample was limited in this way. So further study should look at other things, etc, etc. All of that said, I think a lot of us are probably heartened that, yeah, it does seem like doing a video conference is harder on us or more exhausting than being in person. And there's a lot of theories as to why those haven't been tested. But you know, my personal theory Shannon is that the fact that you know everyone can see you, you know, that that's why a lot of people turn their camera off. But even then the feeling that there's a camera, I am definitely seen is different in a video conference than it is when you're sitting in a conference room and you know everybody's eyes are pointed towards the speaker, right? So you don't feel the pressure on you. The way you do in a video conference where you're like, well, everybody could be looking at me. I don't know who is, but everybody could be. And I mean, even from our perspectives as presenters, there's definitely something to say there in terms of even if it's not in front of a live audience, being on camera is very tiring because you are more poised like you're working your core and sitting up straight like your posture. You're using your voice and expressing a lot more and using a lot more like gestures and hand gestures and whatnot. So there's a lot more that goes into it when you are being looked at and you know that you're being looked at. So you're we describe it as being on quote unquote all the time. And that's that's something that you definitely experience when you're in a video conference. I would love to know I would love to see them do a test to kind of compare like an office setting with people doing a video conference where they're in a meeting type of mindset for 50 minutes compared to listening to a lecture for older people for like, you know, 30s 40s, people that are really, really deep into their careers to see if it affects you in terms of like, working from home. Like is it is it better or is it worse? Like that would be a really interesting experiment for me. Yeah. And and is being young worse because you have less experience, you know, being on than people are older or does that make any difference? Lange of video in our Twitch chat says I sit in the last row of chairs in church for similar reasons. I think that does sort of explain the last row phenomenon whenever you're filling up a conference room or an auditorium they always have to ask people come on sit in the front nobody wants to sit in front because they don't want eyes behind them, right? You want to be looking at everyone else, not everyone else looking at you. If I do my hair good, I'll sit in the front row because then I don't mind. And well, and I was about to say and that that also applies to video conferences. If you do your hair well, then you're less likely to be worried about people looking at you. But I then I immediately jumped to the fact that like it probably is and this would be interesting to study to slightly less stressful for us to do Zoom calls because we do this because we're used to it, right? Yeah, because it comes a lot more naturally to us. Yeah. And because we we've gotten used to like, oh, of course, I do this show every day. So I'm used to people looking at me. But even then when I when I took my I was taking a Zoom class in Korean earlier this year, and it was interesting to have the video on all the time and know like, okay, anybody can be looking at me, even though I'm not supposed to be on even though I'm not talking. Yeah, makes a difference. Well, folks, we have a YouTube channel. You may have heard me mention it earlier in the show. And there's lots of great stuff there. If you want to watch the show as a YouTube show, instead of listening to it as a podcast, you can do that. You can even listen to it as a YouTube show. Go check it out. We have other shows there as well. I enjoyed Faithful is on our YouTube channel and a show I do called Top Five. This past Friday, we released the top five historical newsroom technologies. I kind of did a tour through the tech of newsrooms throughout history. You can catch that and all the other good stuff we do at youtube.com slash daily tech news show. Got a lot of phone stuff happening. OnePlus revealed its new flagship phone, the OnePlus 12. It's going to be coming in white, black, or green. They released a teaser. It was mostly pretty nature scenes. But it did show the phone sometimes. And that let you notice that there are these new color options. There's a new location for the alert slider on the left hand side now instead of the right. A lot of people who are OnePlus fans are very interested in that. OnePlus said the new location is meant to accommodate a more powerful antenna. That's why they switched the sides. Yahoo Tech HK also reported that it'll have a 2K display panel from BOE, support for Rain Touch, and infrared remote control. And OnePlus is holding an event in China on December 5th. So we'll get price in all the shipping details then. Global launch is expected to be announced December 15th. That's one trickle of specs in advance of a flagship phone, even farther out, or at least sometime after the first of the year, maybe as early as January 17th, is the Samsung Galaxy S24. Shannon, what are we hearing about that one? Yeah, I'm super excited about this. So there is a leak of Samsung's Galaxy S24 Ultra, which is the highest rate of flagship by an ex-user last week, which showcases the upcoming phone's larger screen and the flat back, which is a slight difference. The curved side design of previous models is also eliminated, and the S24 line is also rumored to feature Samsung Gauss, the company's proprietary generative AI model. I'm excited. I'm very excited. So you're an Android fan, you're a Samsung user. Which Samsung are you using these days? Yeah, so this will be fun for me because I'm currently an S23 Ultra user with my beautiful Sailor Moon case on it, of course, of course. And I'm very much in that high end. I need all the high end flagship specs. I need to be able to edit with 4K and be able to take pictures and edit all my photos and do social media and do vlogs. I always buy the biggest of the best flagship, and that's one of my daily drivers right now. The other one is my 8 Pro because I always carry two phones. So for me, I'm very curious about the fact that they switched to the flat back and the flat front. Those are two big differences that we're going to see on the Ultra, of course. The current model has a slight curvature on the screen, which a lot of people don't like. But if you use the little side dock for applications, then it's very useful. So it's not something that has ever troubled me. I did notice that in terms of the design, as far as where the cameras are set up and everything, that doesn't seem to have changed very much, which is kind of interesting because I've found using the 8 Pro that the flat glass back, which covers all three of the lenses all at the same time, is a lot easier to clean. And it's a lot easier to put a case over it, and it doesn't wobble at all when you set it down on a hard surface because it's this straight flat back casing. But with the S23 Ultra, and it looks like the S24 Ultra as well, you're going to have a little bit of wobble from the lenses, and they're all going to be in separate casings for each of the different lenses, which can be kind of hard to clean. Lots of dust gets around those and such. So in terms of, like, if you have a pet at home, you might not like that as much. Yeah, especially with the foldables, because I have the Pixel Fold, it just starts to become really nerve-wracking to see all the little pieces of dust working their way in on those edges. Supposedly, the S24 Ultra will have the newest Snapdragon as well. I believe last year's was the Snapdragon 8 Gen 2, so this one will be the Gen 3, I believe. Yeah, so I'm looking forward to that and doing some benchmarking and testing to see if it's improved anything. But the fact that they're bringing their generative AI model into it, I'm hoping that will help with some of the photography downfalls that we see between the Samsung Galaxy line versus the Pixel line. The Pixel line has blown it out of the park with everything that they've been doing with generative AI. And I'm hoping that we see the same thing out of Samsung, because that would be really good competition in that market. But it sounds like we are facing yet another flagship that is ever going to have people saying evolutionary, not revolutionary. All of the true, all of the big updates are in the camera. And the one difference would be Samsung Gauss, the AI on device AI. But that's another example of Samsung doing a thing that everybody's like, well, there already exists. Like you can already use the Google one. I could put Bard on there. Why do I need Samsung's? What's going to be better about Samsung's? Yeah, what's going to be better? I mean, they've always done hardware really, really well. And I feel like if they keep that focus on hardware, even if it's just a very simplistic upgrade between the S23 line and the S24 line, I think that will definitely help like keep them at the very high end for flagships. And introducing generative AI, like yeah, it kind of feels like they're playing catch up to other brands, especially the Pixel line in particular. But I think it's needed at this point. Like I think they need to focus more on that because there's only so much that you can do with hardware at this time without turning your devices into something much larger. I just, I don't know. I'm trying. Now I'm blanking on what was the Samsung voice assistant that's still kind of hidden in there? Big Bixby. Big Bixby. Unfortunately. Gauss just has a Bixby feel. Yeah, it's cringe. It's such a potato. And they do this partly because of their Android partnership where they'll have their own thing, but you could still get the Google version. You could still get the Android version of whatever it is. So I wonder if that's going to change with Gauss. I'm definitely not expecting it to though. Yeah, I'm not really sure if it will or not. So I'm definitely looking forward to it. And I'll do a comparison, of course, between the two phones. I'm hoping that I can get a one plus in my studio too. So I can review those because the big thing with that that everybody's freaking out about is the alert slider changes. Yeah, everybody's like they changed the side. Oh no, it's been it's been the same for such a long time. Like that's going to be a big difference if you're used to just that muscle memory. I have a feeling a lot of people are not going to be super happy about that. Yeah, so there's a lot of really interesting upgrades happening. One thing I noticed between my eight pro and the S 23 ultra is the Wi-Fi is a lot faster on the eight pro and the S 23 ultra. I think that's just based on the Wi-Fi spec that's included in the eight pro versus the older Samsung phone. So hopefully we'll see faster Wi-Fi to kind of complement what we're seeing from pixel right now. And hopefully we see some AI going into those cameras. I would love to see some increases there. Yeah, yeah, some improvements there. Just to remind people again, the one plus date for the Chinese announcement is a December 5th. That's when we'll get all the details. Global launch date will be announced December 15th and we don't have an official date for the Samsung Galaxy S 24 Ultra, but we are expecting Samsung to do an unpacked on January 17th that will of course announce the Galaxy S 24 Ultra because if you're doing an unpacked on January 17th, what else are you going to announce? Unless they come out with a headset to compete with the Apple Vision Pro, which I guess would be an outside shot, right? But probably going to be fine. Yeah. All right, let's check out the mail bag. Scott wrote in and said, I've been meaning to email you for several weeks just now getting around to it. Can you tell me what happened to Rich Truffalino on Daily Tech Headlines? My wife and I would listen to him every night before bed and we would both say together, thanks for listening. We'll talk to you next time. And from all of us here at Daily Tech Headlines, remember have a super sparkly day, which is how Rich signs off Daily Tech Headlines. Scott said, we miss Rich. We'd love to hear him again. Is that a possibility? Yes, we still work with Rich. He produces, it's a thing, with me and Molly Wood, but he no longer hosts Daily Tech Headlines on a regular basis. He can fill in from time to time, so keep your ears out. He might be popping in if somebody needs a day off. I know he's done that for us on DTNS once, but he went over to David Spark, our friend David Spark's CISO series company. And so he's doing security headlines over there. So if you like Rich doing headlines, head on over and get his enterprise security headlines from David Spark. That's at the CISO series, CISO, and check that out. But yeah, Rich did a great job for us. We were sad to see him go, but we were happy that he found something cool to do with David and we love what David does over there. So it's all good and it means you get more Rob Dunwood. So hey, everybody wins, right? Right, right, right. We love Rob. Indeed. Thank you, Scott. Scott was among many people who wrote in. It was like, did I miss an announcement? And we did make an announcement, but not everybody listens to every second of every show. I get that, so I thought we would pass that along as well. Shannon Morris, thank you so much for being here today with us. What do you got going on to let people know about? I got a lot going on. Well, I left Threat Wire on the Hack 5 YouTube channel. Speaking of moves. Yeah, speaking of moves, even though it still says Threat Wire back there, I got to take that down. Sorry about that. I know. Little awkward. YouTube.com slash Shannon Morris is the best place to find all of my content. I'm still doing security and privacy content on my own channel. I just did a really fun 8 Pro review. It's super, super in depth. And I did a bunch of photography and videography examples in that video, including some of the AI stuff. So that was really fun. I had so much fun creating that video, so please check it out. Fantastic. Go support Shannon as well. Also, if you're a patron of the show, you not only get an ad free version, you not only get bonus content like Roger's column or our rewind show, but you also get more DTNS. We call it Good Day Internet. It's the extended show. And we're going to talk about using hand gestures to control devices. It always sounds cool. And people have tried it multiple times over the past decades, but every time we get it, we don't end up using it. So we're going to talk about whether we really need it or if this time around is different. You can also catch the show live Monday through Friday for PM Eastern 2100 UTC. Find out more at dailytechnewshow.com slash live back tomorrow with Patrick Norton. I think we're talking about card tech. Stick around for that. This show is part of the frog pants network. Get more at frogpants.com. Well, that was a fantastic show, Shannon. Thank you so much. That was fun. That was good. Yeah. That was a great way to get back into doing videos was doing a live DTNS episode. How enjoyable. Just jump right in. Just jump and write it. I hope I remember how to do this. Oh yeah. It was like you never left or never win anyway. Showbot.tv slash DTNS 2 is the place if you have a title and you're listening or watching live where you can submit the titles and vote on them. So get over there and vote on them now. Roger is going to be looking over your titles with a judgmental eye, a discerning eye. So you want to put your votes up so that he can see where public sentiment is because I think Roger is more amenable to public sentiment than many of us. He's more democratic. He is, yes. He will argue both sides. That's right. So you need to let him know where the winds are blowing. All right. Let's talk about this Bloomberg article, Austin Carr. I think it's one of their newsletters that Austin Carr writes. And the first thing he had in his newsletter was an article called Will Handgestures Replace Touchscreens and Keyboards. And of course, it's pinging off the fact that human AI have started selling their little pin thing where there's no interface. It's just gesture controls. And of course, Apple Vision Pro coming, which has a bunch of gesture controls, Meta putting more hand gesture controls in the Quest. It also notes the previous failures of devices like the Microsoft Connect or the Leap Motion. Not exactly failures in technology as much as failures to get people to use their motion control for things. Leap Motion was supposed to be the tech that people would put in everything. And it just never materialized. Are these new approaches any different, Shannon, or is there something about gesture control? Because like the Pixel's trying to do it too. Samsung has a version of it on the flip and in the fold. Is there just something where we're like, no, it looks cool, but we don't want to do that? I feel like, and maybe this is just my personal experience, you might have a different personal experience. But whenever it comes to the huge variances that humans have in terms of how we conduct our own gestures, it's so different that it can be incredibly frustrating to try to get somebody to use the correct gestures if the way that the technology is fine tuned does not account for those differences, that variety that you can end up with. Take for example, and this is just using a screen on a phone, like I can easily scroll on a phone, right? Like I'm like, yeah, 120 Hertz, like I got this, like I can scroll all day all day, it's fine, like put me on threads or X or whatever. And I can scroll just fine. But you give the same phone to like my grandma, who's not as familiar with an Android phone, and she will like poke and prod that thing so hard with her finger, just trying to get it to scroll. And then instead of like swiping, like I do, where I just like let my kind of smoothly let my finger just swipe off the screen and let the screen keep scrolling after I remove it, she'll hold her finger down and move it really harshly up to the top of the screen. And like just seeing how other people interact with a phone makes me less likely to think that, you know, air gestures, for example, would work out so well for humans. I don't know, like, is it just me or is that something that you've experienced? It does not appear to be just you. Certainly a lot of other people have had this problem. I see a few people in the chat room saying, well, the connect had problems, it was glitchy, and it was, don't get me wrong. I think the connect was most glitchy when you tried to use it in a game. It was not ready for games. But I used it a lot for selecting things. I actually used the voice control, the voice control and the connect was actually undersold. It was really good. But I would occasionally use the hand control. And it had a good system of you hold your hand up, you'd see the hand on the screen, you'd wait for a minute, and it would like kind of pop. You'd see a visual confirmation like, okay, I'm watching your hand now. And then it actually worked pretty well as an interface device. But who wants to do that every time you want to just reach up and like it's so much easier to hit a couple of keys or touch a touchscreen, not let me hold my hand until they're out. Okay, I think I recognized it. And I see that with the Samsung Galaxy flip as well, because it has this cool thing where you can hold your hand up and do the selfie, right? But every time we do it, it's always like, I think it got it. I think it got, oh, it's taking the picture. My hand still in the way. Like, there's just not a good visual cue and there's no haptics, right? And I think that's what somebody has to solve. I don't know whether it can be solved or not. I'm not saying it can or it can't. But it has to become second nature where you know when you're doing it, it works. And there's no doubt. There's no like, is it working? Oh, wait, it's working kind of situation. Yeah, I feel like we still have so much trouble getting people to understand how to use devices that have display like touchscreen displays that even like when it comes to tablets and laptops, like that's still an issue too, that I've experienced with trying to teach people how to use these products, like just telling them, you know, oh, you have to hold down here and then drag it and then lift your finger up like the various simple things for us since we're in the tech world constantly are a lot harder for some of the folks in our families or in our lives and trying to get people to move over to gestures just seems a lot more complicated. Yeah, now they have now they don't have like a they wouldn't have like a device or a screen or something to focus in on where they they have like borders that they have to focus on. And I think the solution would be if someone can create an Apple, you know, seems like the kind of company that likes to say they've done this sort of thing. If somebody can create a system where it's second nature, really easy to learn becomes automatic. And and it's easy to know when it worked and when it didn't. Like that could be teachable. That could be the kind of thing that gets over all of those objections because it's like, Oh, this is easy. A touchscreen was one of those, right? You're you're even your relatives don't have a problem knowing Oh, when I touch this, something happens. It's always like, Oh, how hard do I have to touch? And where do I have to move my finger that they have to learn, right? The touch part of it is easy to grasp. Like, Oh, I touch and things happen, even like children are famously good at picking up touch screens and knowing how to use them. Yeah, gesture control isn't like that. Yeah. When when does gesture control get so easy? It's like, Oh, it's obvious here. I can figure it out. This is how you do. I still have trouble with like VR handsets that you hold in your hands while you're wearing a VR headset. Like I still have trouble figuring out how to use those and point them in the right way. Like it still frustrates me from time to time. If I put on like a PSVR to you or something like that, like, I'm still like, wait, how do I point it correctly? It's very awkward. I really like the quest's hands that show up when it detects your hands. That's promising to me. That's like, Oh, I get immediately what that is. Those are my hands. And what those hands can touch, you know, and obscure and interact with is what my hands. So you're seeing, even if you're not feeling it, you're seeing it. It's a little bit of a disconnect, but it works better. So what do you think would be a good answer for gestures? Do you think that there's a way I go apply it Apple or or Meta or something? Yeah, you want to tell us on the live video you'd go get it? Well, I might tell you, but I'd probably be I'd be much more hireable for those companies. No, I don't know. I because is there a way is there a way to make haptics work without while still using gesture control without having to wear special gloves? Like, is there need to watch Star Trek? Yeah, is there something where you can like, send static electricity that that so you can feel virtual objects? Because to me, that's what you have to aim for. You have to you have to be able to feel it once you can feel it and it should feel different. You should be like, Oh, this buzzy little electric field, that's the virtual object. So you can tell the difference between virtual and real, right? But but if you could do that, then it becomes easy. It's like, Oh, I can feel the thing I'm trying to interact with and I can see it. It also just needs to be reliable so that you're never guessing like, does it see me or not? When when your hands show up in the quest, you know, like, Oh, it's working, right? It's that one of more of those kinds of things. One of the problems I have with gesture controls is that you like with my television, I constantly find I have to reset it and then redo the little little setup program so that it finds me. It finds the map like the remote control in my hand and where I'm pointing it correctly. So I don't end up having to point it like super far vertically or something in order for it to understand the screen. You have the LG one? Yeah, I do. Yeah, we have the same one. I have the opposite problem where it tends to find me when I'm like, no, no, I'm just picky. I'm just moving the remote somewhere. I'm like, stop, stop thinking I'm pointing it at something. That's the problem. We keep on having to reset it. Yeah, yeah. That's nobody wants that. They'll throw their remote at the TV. We're not going to do that. We just keep it out of sight and we like barely use it because it's like, no, it just That's smart. Yeah. I guess we could turn it off. We could turn off that feature in the settings somewhere. But but yeah, you need to be able to be like, Oh no, I was just waving at my friend. I didn't want to take a selfie right now. It needs to be a little bit. That's true with voice assistants too. They need to be smart enough to know the difference between when you're intending to give a command and when you're not. You mentioned the flip and I ended up turning off the the palm gesture because it was too fast and I can never I can never see the screen well enough like when I'm smiling or whatever, taking a selfie with friends to know when it's actually taking the picture and when I need to remove my hand and it worked too quickly. I was like, Oh God, I have to remove my hand real quick. Every single picture of me with every single picture of me with flips selfies, like you see my palm in the picture and I'm just like, Hey, you're about to give a high five in every flip. It's so so awkward. So I turned it off. I ended up using the voice activation instead and I would just tell it like cheese or smile or whatever the activation word is and it worked so much better because then I was already like smiling and I could already strike a pose and I didn't have to worry about like quickly moving my hand out of the screen and accidentally smacking my best friend or something. I wonder if gestures just need to be limited that like all of these like the connect and the magically they tried to do a lot but maybe it's maybe the beginning is like there needs to be a very small vocabulary of gestures that work and you just get used to those and those are easy. You make them so they're not something people would normally do. You might accidentally do it once or twice but you're not going to be doing it all the time and then and then you build on that. I don't know if I'm convinced that gesture control is something that will be will be widely used. It feels more supplemental like oh there are a few things that will be much easier with gesture control but most things you probably want to do with voice or touch. Yeah I agree with that. However I would hope that whatever those gesture controls are they aren't proprietary to some specific brand because if I have to learn a different gesture for every single product. Yeah that's a problem right now because I know it's about to be a problem because I think it's skipping a song in music is double tap for every single head or double tap in quest but single tap in vision pro. I don't remember which is which but it's a hand gesture in both but it's a different hand gesture in both of them. I have the same problem with head yeah with earbuds like every time I try to you know tap on it right like no I didn't want to skip it I wanted to pause or whatever it might be or do I have to hold down to activate the voice voice assistant like what do I do that stuff's customizable usually in settings but sometimes it shouldn't have to you should know like oh single tap means this double tap means that you know like like Apple did with the trackpad where they put by default it goes as if it's a touchscreen and I always have to turn it off because I want it to go the way I grew up using the touchpad and then everybody else who uses my Mac is like oh why is your touchpad wrong and I'm like oh because I'm old that's why you do it the opposite way I do it the old way yeah yeah I know yeah wait what is the new way the new way is when you scroll up everything scrolls up right oh okay wait what what way is it yeah yeah when I scroll up I want it to scroll down my my browser to scroll down gotcha I'm used to pulling down makes it scroll up whereas your top yeah the touchscreen generation of which you are apparently a mother wants it to go up when you push up right yeah right I was born in the 80s yes see I was born in the 1970s so oh yeah okay well this this track that explains everything yeah this yeah it all makes sense now here's something that all generations can agree on Black Friday lasts forever now so I found it amusing to get a bunch of Cyber Monday deals because Cyber Monday was a name that came along what in like the early 2000s as like you can shop online now so while everybody's back in the office where they have the internet let's give them online deals it's like all Black Friday deals are online there's no difference between Monday and Friday so yeah it doesn't matter anymore do we need to get rid of Cyber Monday like first of all do we even need it at all Black Friday lasts all month now basically okay thank you was it just me or did Black Friday start on like November 1st yeah it started before singles day which is actually the largest shopping day of the year in China um yeah it was I was getting Black Friday deals all month for sure huh it stressed me out because I was trying to like figure out which ones to track and I got so frustrated I wanted to do a video about like my best Black Friday haul or store sales but they they started so early I was like why do I wait until Black Friday now when everybody else posted their videos like two weeks ago I did Black Friday shopping last Tuesday yeah me too I didn't do any on Friday I did it I did it last week it's because they I don't like it they just want a broader window for people to spend their money depending on when they get their paychecks yeah it's it and it makes sense because you used to have Black Friday sales because all the stores were closed on Thursday and then Friday would be the day everyone had off so they could go shopping well now you can shop at home anytime day or night over the internet so those those things still exist closed stores are closed most of Thursday some of them do open on Thursday and yes more people have the day off Friday so you're more likely to go out to the store but with all the online shopping it just kind of blurs all the lines plus Black Friday is named after the crash of a stock market it was a joke like oh Friday is such a you know a stressful day for retail employees it's like Black Friday because of all of the shopping and it's like a dark humor joke and now it's become a brand name yeah it's kind of terrible and they should just change the name like all of them Cyber Monday and Black Friday we should why don't they just change it so we lower our prices and then just leave it like that for the rest then you have 12 not very catchy I'm not you have a 12 month window for people to sit okay we need it we needed a catchy title we need to get rid of Black Friday and Cyber Money and just get I told you I told you titles for the sale for Cyber Monday I told you money bags Monday that's where you wet that's where you act like a baller and you're just throwing throwing less cash money bags let these ones let these washington's flow oh gosh can I come over to your house and shop that sounds fine my biggest my biggest Black Friday haul was a $3 per month subscription to Disney Plus Hulu I just had to change the name and start a new account under different under under someone else's I mean that's a different name so but unfortunately Disney Plus has the ads just like the Hulu so but whatever see you have some month for both for next year yeah I like money bags Monday I'm not gonna lie but it does not reflect our main complaint uh or or observation maybe it's not even a complaint that oh yeah this is not limited to a single day anymore this is just an ongoing sale for most of November it's national okay so we have no shave November no save oh no save no save all of our November yes save no that doesn't really that's not as catchy she can't say no spend no you can't do no spend November because so there's also Moe Vember where you grow the mustache instead of you know so what if it's Moe deals member Paulo said Moe save Moe save Moe Vember hey I like that we should sell this to the president president president president of who of shopping Amazon yes they ship the most packages is fine they're president of shopping I'll be the president of shopping well how's that questar points out there's also giving Tuesday which was a reaction to all the shopping like what if you donate yeah so we don't we don't want to lose that that's all for a good cause that's true giving it is sure um November I mean you could do spendy September if you just move it a month earlier sale what about sale November sale November oh I like that why does it have to be in November again why can't it just be earlier well that's when it is I I don't know why that's oh no I just say we're just like Roger this is when we're trying to we're trying to stretch it out beyond the single I think you're pushing our remit too far like I don't know if we have the power to move the actual no do not do not sacrifice my halloween spooky season okay yeah I think that's the other reason everyone wants to keep halloween distinct yes halloween is a great time to begin a national holiday it doesn't have to be named after November though it could be it could be named something entirely different you can't take it with you November so that's when you you just spend oh you're like I can't take it with you um I don't know uh after after lion jim video said after Thanksgiving it is thanks saving thanks savings not bad I love that you'll thank us for all the savings spend November spend ember from andy toy I don't know did you see that uh this I think it was the city of Paris it was somewhere in France but I think it was the city of Paris like warned people they don't need to buy things on Friday oh wow like you're gonna get all these deals don't feel like you have to buy things it's it's a it's a waste it's bad for the environment to buy things you're not gonna need our GDP shrunk everyone spend buy yeah well the history of finance in France was like you're telling people what excuse me like you're doing what to our economy right now I had no idea that happened no yeah I'm kind of out of it though that was interesting yeah because the black friday thing has gone out of the united states like they have it in other countries uh specifically european countries but also like they have them in they have them in the asian asia pacific area as well yeah people were a little sore it's like why can't I get on get in on these deals because the bigger the bigger sale in asian countries is november 11th so that's that's the single stay sale but they're merging right black friday starts early enough in singles day doesn't just happen on november 11th it's expanding now so maybe we should merge singles bingles we'll call it bingles november but bingles bingles I like this I like this bingles oh bingles bingles can come up with like a specialty like uh holiday can I think you I think we've hit on it oh my god it's bingles bingles month oh my god ah what are you did you find any bingles deals i mean single day it just sounds like you're spending dollar bills right so yeah bingles leave you with more jingle yeah in your pocket right you can't see i don't know i'm starting to think about like places where adults party so i don't um Las Vegas sure sure aruba no no i i i get i get i get rid of what you're pointing out yeah okay i'm glad you think stomp chico state no i got you chico state are you suggesting we should call november so my entire high school the four years of high school every time we talked about colleges uh at least one teacher would always bring up chico state as kind of that party school sure and i don't know they all are every school is a party school if you don't like it if you want to look well if you know where chico state's located it's like it's kind of sure sure you perpetuate your stereotype as much as you want all right tom just because you don't like yo-yo ink i santa barbara oh that's a party school and then all the people at north western university of Illinois that's a party school like it's your people just always call something a party school if they want to pretend what they attend is bigger tom was a big partier at school yeah i bet tom was yep yep that tom was parting on bingles day yeah it was bingles day every day i mean same yeah in college my my life was bingles day every day hmm mine was opposite that's all college students yeah my my college days was oh bogo days buy one get one free i'm gonna eat well this week friend of mine and i was get a job at domino's pizza so i eat free every day smart oh you got to eat free at domino's that was wiser than my deal which was good job at the cafeteria in the dorms give me as much as you want but you're also eating cafeteria food what you do roger is you live in the dorm you don't pay for the food meal because it was too expensive for us you get a job at domino's and then you you get to the point where you're the manager or the assistant manager so that nobody knows like there's nobody above you that knows if you're is this the is this the underground is this the uh the little known dorm to domino's pipeline i've pretty much yeah yeah pretty much the dorm to domino's underground and like i was everybody's best friend in dorm because i would come home and be like somebody didn't pick up their pizza i want that we're the pizza hut yeah same deal it's great dardonel i don't know if all of garden was dardonel's that uh back then but man they wouldn't the only thing free you got was a soda that's like i'm not paying for this i know you make it oh that's not oh yeah pizza i just gave you an employee discount but uh sometimes pizzas got made by accident and no one bought them and then everyone we're going to be thrown out so all the way sometimes we accidentally made pizzas oh this is a mistake i put pepperoni on instead of sausage when i worked at the exploratorium cafeteria we could eat the food it's like yeah you know whatever lunch makes yourself sandwich well that's why i got a job in the dorm cafeteria because then i didn't have to pay the dorm prices for the cafeteria food but i still had to eat cafeteria food i went to a commuter school was cheaper to live off campus i did eat a lot of pizza yeah you're right gpeg 84 yeah that was my life pizza i got very creative i got a job at the university of illinois library so i could eat all the books i wanted oh that's smart so when you go to the library you see like a bite mark that's tom yeah that was me ingesting knowledge that's why i got a job at the radio station so i could eat all the radio he can eat the ratings just yeah yeah that's uh that's why i got a job as a youtuber so i can eat all the youtube's eat all the youtube i don't know if that tastes good my camera maybe it could be a doughtuber and be just focused on uh pizza dough oh yeah there we go although there is that one guy who does like a one bite he does a one bite pizza review he goes to all these pizza parlors and he orders the pizza like whatever the most popular one and he takes a one bite out of it of a slice and then he tells you what he thinks i bet he secretly eats the rest of it after he stops filming i'm sure the rest of the crew that shoots it with it eats it as well crew the other person here mom here's dinner i actually really like i like so you know there's the youtube mover the the trial we watch a lot of the travel youtube shows oh yeah yeah and so there's the there's the move where you like see them walking into the restaurant or you see them walking down going down the escalator and of course you know they're alone so they basically just put their camera down or maybe they have somebody with them watching the camera but they put the camera down and then show walked past it and then had to go back and get the camera right yeah uh there was there was one we were watching the other day that like showed that part of it like showed her walking past and then left in the part where she like walks back and grabs the camera no what's better is when they do it but they try to make it look very seamless but you see the reflection like in the window or something where you see them walking away like and then run back and grab the camera yeah yeah or this person did it on purpose for comedic effect that that's what i was talking about is it mark weens he does like the food review on youtube like huge uh he started out that way but then you could tell at the point where he had enough money to bring you got people no he got his wife and kid along with his wife there's also a woman who does a really good video blog it's fall bard the island off the coast northern coast of norway that's like in the arctic circle so they have the polar night and stuff uh and same thing like she'll put the camera out and then she'll like show her letting the dog out and going back inside and she's done it a couple of times too where she shows like herself running and getting the camera like because you get told by the footprints in the snow they indicate multiple exits and love it i love eating i don't know why it's because eating snow uh well yeah bingles day seems to be the best name we came up with as problematic as it might be so we probably should keep looking anybody got a name for the november sales uh so i do like november sale number is not bad thanks feedback daily tech news show dot com send us your favorite name maybe it is bingles day bingle was his name oh b i n g le s a l e e s a l e y salie salie salies uh meanwhile i want to thank all of the people who support us on patreon patreon.com slash d t n s i have to say i have noticed lately that there are more folks submitting comments it's not just r w nash anymore although r w nash still submitting lots of great comments uh which is awesome to see um but we also have uh shinna uh we also have byron we also have clint uh we got some some comments from michael uh on on your column roger so good to see all of you in there interacting at patreon.com slash d t n s uh thank you very much to the folks who support our twitch channel if you've got an amazon account you can send us some money that doesn't cost you anything extra we got four bits from zoe brings bacon chas based and re-subscribed for the 43rd month there was a hype train pc mylesy and technomanche gave us bits theater monkey who runs the channel re-subscribed for the 52nd month uh windmill steve for the 43rd month and uh j rom 20 for the 50th month uh we also got follows from morpheus 99 day fan and lord vader 1980 thanks all of you and thank you shannon good to see you thank you for having me until tomorrow everyone have a good day have a good day have a good bingles day all right i assume we're naming gdi bingles day but let's let's let's look at the d t s topics uh first zoe brings bacon the leading vote-getter with the last row phenomenon oh there's also airdrop panic like satanic airdrop that's not bad i like that one uh the flat pack instead of the rat pack because of the flat phone yeah oh that's oh i love i just saw this serrat w's goss i know it's you bixby as if goss is just dressing up it's bixby dressed up i know it's you bixby that's funny that's really good uh roger what do we go with we went with the reverb the reverb mics there's no back room in zoom no back row in zoom zoom back room thank you the reverb mic our top focus on the gdi title is in fact super sparkly days are now enterprise level from my engine video which is a dtns uh piece of content not not gdi specific but that's still applicable because it's all in there um i really thought bingles day would be higher up on this i'm surprised high five selfies from zoe brings bacon cyber moan day oh oh okay google i'm not waving david grizzly smith well it was a nice gesture oh that's good that's i that's really good that's good wow bingles did not get voted very high i guess more people are thinking like you should have oh you know someone did someone say spend giving already oh no i don't think anybody said spend giving there was a there was a sales giving i think somebody said sales but not spends shannon ate a lot of pizza from gbeg 84 i mean well it was a nice gesture it is factual oh magnesium cw has a to touch point gesture or dance oh i vote dance we're all forced to dance to turn on our our tech products in the future dance on dance off the reverb mic has what this gesture says up to you oh spend's giving nick with a c that's where it's hot i like well it was a nice gesture i do too cool all right done david grizzly smith you my friend have suggested the title that we're gonna use thank you so much we're gonna send you all over to loading ready run now if you're on twitch tell them we said hello if you're on youtube you're on your own go watch whatever you want we're not gonna be your boss see you later bye see you tomorrow