 When it comes to dark-skinned women, I always feel the need to make sure that you, that I don't present myself like I think I'm better than you because I don't, that's not who I am. I don't ever want to come across that way because that's not who I am. It's like me constantly having to prove myself in trying to convince people to like me. Tell me how you really feel because I just want to build with you. Black girl, tell me how you really feel. I want to keep it real with you. I want to live better, eat better. I want to love better, sleep better. Yeah, I want to feel so aligned. If you woke up tomorrow and you were a man, describing as much detail as you can, what kind of man, black man in particular, would you be? And then I'll explain why I asked that question. Okay, if I were to wake up being a black man, what kind of black man would I be? I love the thoughtfulness. I like it. Yeah, this is okay. Would it be weird if I said my dad? No, but just explain. What is your dad? Who is he? Why do you jump to him immediately when you think of a man or your ideal? Well, one is because he is my father. He's the first constant man in my life, thankfully. And he just like, he just has this aura of peace. He walks in peace. And I'm just like, dang, like he, it's just freaking amazing. And obviously he's, well, not obviously because y'all don't know him. You don't know him. But he's just, he's a man of faith. So I mean, we're a Christian based family. He is so, I just admire his like, self-discipline and consistency with like, I guarantee you, if I were to go over to my parents' house today, he would be in his office at rather like either in his Bible or some type of deep study in regards to God, the word, all that. And he was able to retire. He's only 55 and he was able to retire last year. That's because he, the job that he was working at, he had been there longer than I've been alive. So that's amazing. I'm like just like, wow. Because I think the retirement age is like maybe 70 something by now. I think it's 65 or something. Yeah. It's old. It's old. Yeah. So he was able to retire. He's just like doing, like taking it easy, just living life, like still being consistent and active because I don't know, I feel like a lot of people think, like when you retire, you're just going to be like doing nothing. But no, you can still have things that you're passionate about that you can now give all of your attention to because you're not on somebody else's time. You're on your own time now. And I admire that about him. And I'm so happy for him. I mean, he's just enjoying it. And just like I said, the peace he exudes. Yeah, I'm just, so I guess, yeah, if I were to wake up a man, be my dad because that is the first man that's ever been in my life. And he's been constant. Yeah. So with the peace, do you feel like as a woman, it's something you lack or do you think he does it in a way that you're unable to as a woman? It has nothing to do with like gender. I just think, yeah, I do, I don't have, I'm striving to have peace, to be at peace and content with my life and what's going on. But he just walks in it. And it's just amazing. So that's what I aspire to be. Has nothing to do with like gender. No, I do not have it yet. But I'm Do you think gender plays any role in his ability to walk in peace and maybe your difficulty in walking in peace? Do you think there's any aspect of that that's gendered? No, I feel like it's because he has a solid relationship with God. And I've struggled. I'm rocky. I've fallen off. I can't tell you the last time I've even had a conversation with God. That's the peace. That's why it's a struggle. And plus, he's much older. And yeah, I'm just not there yet. I've got a lot going on personally. But I want to get to that point where it's just like nothing rattles me. I'm just completely at peace. Doesn't matter. And that's where he's at. Okay, so let's bring it to another side. Let's talk about actually, I'm just gonna ask you the question. Do you consider yourself a woman who happens to be black or a black person who happens to be a woman? Oh my gosh, what? Think about it. Think about it. Basically, do you prioritize your gender or your race or ethnicity in your identity or your identifying of yourself? And then why? Dang, that's a very good question that I've never even thought about. Well, I love being black, so I'm a black woman who happens to be a woman. I don't even like I don't know how to answer that any other way. Why was that your reflex? Because I'm the same way. I think of myself, black first, male second. Why is that your reflex? Like if you could expound on that, how would you? Because I recognize and accept the fact that I'm black and black is beautiful. Black is magic. It's everything like so. Even though I'm light skin, I'm still black. And that's the beauty of the black experience. We have different shades. That's gorgeous. Well, pops in my head immediately because I'm not light-skinned. I guess this is also from my perspective as well, because I only have the perspective of a dark-skinned black man. How have you experienced blackness as a light-skinned black woman? Or being black, not blackness? Unfortunately, the colorism is an issue. And I understand why it's the freaking white supremacy that has favored lighter skin people, obviously going back to slavery and all that stuff and the favoritism over the different skin tones and blah, blah, blah. And I mean, I can't control, like nobody can control how they come into this world skin tone-wise. But I do recognize in the black experience, the black community, the divide within the skin tones. And I hate it. I hate the fact that just because I'm light-skinned, which I have no freaking control over, by the way. I hate that we were like, stereotyped as like, I don't know, I've heard like stuck up or you think you're better than this person. And that is not the case. And sometimes I feel like some darker skin people feel like light-skinned people don't struggle or feel ostracized or anything like that. But the thing is, there's been a lot of cases where I have been ostracized. And I need reassurance and I need to be lifted up. But I don't know what it is about people thinking that light-skinned people don't feel like, don't ever have like a bad day or feel like crap or don't need encouragement or something like that. It's like, oh, well, they're light-skinned, so they don't need to be told that they're beautiful, blah, blah, blah, or stuff like that. So yeah, I've struggled with stuff like that in regards to friendships with darker-skinned people. I have no issue. Like all of the men that I've been attracted to, it's not like I have a preference, but it just happens to be that men I've been attracted to have been darker-skinned. I just think it's just all of it is beautiful. We're black. I don't know even know if I'm answering your question. You are. You keep going. And I have a tendency to just go off on a rampage and just be going on and on and on and then end up going off course. I'll bring you back. So I used to have, in grade school, I had like a dark-skinned best friend. And it just, it was, it obviously dissolved, but I just felt like when it comes to dark-skinned women, I've always filled the need to make sure that you, that I don't present myself like I think I'm better than you because I don't, that's not who I am. I don't ever want to come across that way because that's not who I am. I don't, it's like me constantly having to prove myself in trying to convince people to like me and not think a certain way about me just because I'm light-skinned because I'm not, I'm not, I'm not stuck up. I don't think I'm better than anybody. And I just want people to like see me and just give me the opportunity. But a lot of times just off the bat, I get it. There's this wall and you just don't even, some people just like, you know what? I don't even want to waste my time. And I've just gotten to the point where, okay, I can't control how other people perceive me because I'm light-skinned. So I'm not doing that anymore. I'm not wasting my time. The people that see me for who I am, that's who the people, that's who they're meant to be. That's who's meant to be in my space, my circle, whatever. I can't control perception. And for a long time, like I said, I just wanted to be liked, accepted. I wanted to like make sure, hey, you know, I'm not, even though I'm light-skinned, I'm not trying to be white. I'm not, first of all, I can't be white. I'm not trying to, like, I'm not being better than you or whatever. Anyways, I feel like I'm being redundant and rambling. You're not. There's a documentary, I don't know if you'd call it a documentary series, because you did two. So it's only two. But the first part was called Dark Girls. And then the second part was called Light Girls. I think it's by this guy named Bill Duke. And in Dark Girls, he talked about colorism, obviously, from the perspective of a dark-skinned person, man and woman, but more specifically women, because, you know, beauty is part of you guys's currency, right? And then in Light Girls, he talked about the opposite experience, right? And he talked about, or he interviewed some light-skinned women who talked about being ostracized, having to prove their blackness, and even that creating a personality of hyper-blackness, you know, like they're the ones with the dashikis, and they're the ones with the incense, and this, this, and that, because they have always felt the need to prove themselves. So what's, what's been, what's something that we might not very easily assume that is part of the experience navigating the world as a light-skinned black person? What comes to mind? That you wouldn't easily assume that we have insecurities as well. We're insecure. And, yeah, just feel like we're always on the outside. Say more about that. What do you mean? For me, I feel like, because when I was talking about, like, I always wanted to feel accepted and just wanted people to like me. And it just seemed like I've always just been on the outside personally, from my personal experience, just on the outside, like as far as friendships. It's just, it's really trippy. It's really weird. But I am a loner also. So I've, at the same time... Hold on one second. Are you a loner? You've had to become one because of these experiences over time? That's a good question. Because I have always, for the most part, stayed to myself. I had like people that I would talk to and interact with, certain people, specific people. I used to be shy. So that was a really good question. I feel like the experiences did play a part. But I do still feel like, because I'm an introvert. So, yeah, I feel like, yeah, I've been a loner. But those experiences definitely kind of reaffirmed. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. That's what it is. It's the, yeah. So, okay. One of the, and they touched on this in Dark Girls, men have these conversations, women have these conversations about Black men pedestalizing women who have a proximity to whiteness, whether it's white woman or whether it's a light-skinned woman. So being on that side of the conversation, how has that been? Have you felt like Black men have treated you differently? Or have given you extra brownie points that they might not have given your darker-skinned female counterpart? And then how has that either advantage or perceived advantage played out in your relationships with Black women? I'm sorry. Repeat your question one more time. So, okay. In Light Girls, they talked to this little girl who was light-skinned, long hair, and she was getting bullied because the other little girls were jealous of her. They were cutting her hair. They were beating her up. And it was that same who that she thinks she is, even though she was five. And very often you'll hear Black women talk about the advantages that lighter Black women have in the dating market at a whole nine because of their proximity to whiteness. So as somebody who has those quote-unquote advantages, what's been your experiences, not just with men, but with other women? So starting with men, so I've only obviously been with men. Not obviously. You don't know me. Oh my gosh. Why do I say that? Anyways. So I've only dated Black men and I honestly don't know. I mean, well, some of the Black men that I dated, their past relationships, they were with other women of ethnicities or know how to answer that. It's really weird. Let me think about this. Take your time. Let me think about this. So you have dated quite a few men. And again, this doesn't have to be polished. It's a conversation. It's a conversation. So you can ask me stuff too. It's not just one side of you. I'm such a perfectionist. I'm in my head right now. It's supposed to be imperfect. Trust me. Trust me. It's supposed to be. Do I feel like I won with the Black men that I've dated being a light-skinned woman, basically? I wouldn't say won. I would say received an advantage or have been treated differently or have had different expectations. I can't. Honestly, I can't not even speak for them. I don't know about their past relationships to even. And I honestly don't even know what any of their ex-girlfriends, some of them, they had past photos of them. But other than that, I honestly can't say. But I honestly don't care either.