 Well good morning everyone. Welcome to the Cloud Foundry Summit. Pancake Breakfast, huh? It's good to be here with Pancake Bot. But first, before I talk about Pancake Bot, I promise I won't talk about cake with Pancake Bot the whole time. We have other topics to discuss. But I want to first give a big thank you to the Cloud Foundry Summit. And the Cloud Foundry Summit has had us here. We podcasted here yesterday. We're so happy to be here. So thank you very much. We really appreciate it. And I'd also like to thank CloudSoft. And CloudSoft is a sponsor of the new stack. And they've been a sponsor for a long time. And we're very happy, you know, to have them part of the pancake breakfast. And we're going to, unfortunately, Duncan couldn't make it. But we have Adam Lewis here, who from ATOS is going to talk, you know, about kind of how they're working with CloudSoft. So before we get into the discussion, which is about the move from disruption to transformation, the path to the multi-cloud, I wanted to just, you know, kind of tell you a little bit about the Pancake Bot over here. So, you know, I promise I won't take up too much time. But before I do that, Lee Calcoat is in the back. And he has questions. And he'll be there to answer your questions. And if you ask a question, you get the pancake. And this was the one we just printed this morning. It's in the shape of the letter Q. So I started these pancake breakfasts, I don't know, last year sometime. And then I think it was a few months ago, I saw something for the pancake bot. And it was like, I was obviously immediately intrigued. And it started as a Kickstarter project. And they actually found a manufacturer and they just started to work with them. Well, so I said, well, let's just order one and see what it's like. Well, this has been quite the experience. It's actually given me quite a little bit of an education in the Internet of Things, for sure. And I've learned more about firmware than I ever thought I would. I've had questions. People ask me, can this be connected to an API? I don't know. We'll have to, that's the kind of a question I think we'll have to answer the next, the next breakfast maybe. Sarah Cooper came by yesterday and said, ask what kind of chip is in it? And she said, is there an ASIC in this? And I did not have the answer to that. But she said, you should put an Arduino in this. And I'm thinking, well, gosh, you know, can you just imagine that where you could have like, Alexa, I want a pancake pretty like the Eiffel Tower, please. And, you know, and, you know, so I think that's actually in the reality. Or maybe the couch will order, you know, the pancake from the pancake pot and start serving them up. So there's just, you know, endless possibilities here. But, you know, it actually did make me think a lot about the Internet of Things. And when we're talking about distributed computing, we hear a lot about this, you know, this concept of the Internet of Things. And whoa, that wasn't me. Pancake pot. Calm down pancake pot. Somebody just dropped the mic. So I, oh, is this because I'm slipping on a cable here? Maybe. Stop doing that. Okay. So, well, you know, we talk about connecting all the things, right? That's what the Internet of Things is all about, right? And so, but it's evident that there, that this pancake pot over here is actually a very first generation kind of device. But, you know, but it does speak to this kind of era of transformation that we're seeing, for instance, GD and its predicts platform, right? We're seeing all these kind of new kind of ways for us to think about data and how we use data and how, you know, how we can like use data with applications, how we manage that data, how we store it, how the networking capabilities work. And so, you know, I sat down with a few people yesterday who, you know, who are thinking, you know, basically, there's CIOs and I just can't imagine being in their shoes, right? Like, you know, and that's really kind of gets to the topic of the conversation today, which is this idea about disruption, right? And this whole, you know, I worked at TechCrunch and, you know, for two years and we had this event called TechCrunch Disrupt, right? And it was all about disruption and all these startups coming in to disrupt, but I kind of feel like we are kind of moving out of this into this new age of transformation. And so, that's kind of what I wanted to talk about today. And, you know, and so I'm hoping this will glean something for you as you're thinking through, you know, how you're actually building out your own distributed environments. So, why don't we, I'll go in alphabetical order here according to the panelists on the slides here. We have Abby Kearns. Hey, Abby. Hello. We have Adam Lewis. Hi. Brian Swanson. Morning. And Chris Ferris. Howdy. All right. So, just again, we're going to just get the conversation going. And if you have a question, raise your hand and you'll get a pancake. So, Abby, you know, so you're at the Cloud Foundry Foundation and, you know, and what I really like about the Cloud Foundry Foundation is like, these are companies who are just, you know, you see a lot of companies coming in trying to think through what this transformation means, right? So, when you talk to them, what, you know, what, what kind of questions are they asking? Are, you know, are they, you know, you must get all kinds of kind of people, you know, people coming in with varying degrees of levels of expertise. But I'm just curious some of your takeaways from that and your takeaways from the conference here. Well, I'd say first and foremost, there's no one an expert at transformation because it's hard, it's complicated, and it isn't just a technological issue. It is a people and process issue. And for the Fortune 500 Global 2000 transformation is hard. It takes a long time. And there isn't a shortcut to change a culture and change and adopt processes and, and change the way people think about technology. And so, Cloud Foundry is a great enabler of that conversation and a great way to start that and enable and reinforce practices around continuous delivery, test-driven development, agile and lean practices. But at the end of the day, the heavy lift is really the transformation of the culture around that. So, so what is that transformation? Is it like bright colors and like beanbag chairs and t-shirts? You know, I mean, to me, I want to hear that this topic come up. I think, okay, transformation, okay, well, the office environment, you know, hasn't really changed that much in the past, you know, I don't know, since, you know, since the post-war. I mean, now people more work at home, right? So now they, they could actually, you know, be, you know, be two steps from the kitchen or in the kitchen. So I guess that's a change. But, you know, what are, what are the possibilities of this transformation of, you know, of like, what are the things you don't want to happen in this transformation? What are the kind of things that you, you don't want to see when, when companies start to go through this transformation? Well, you don't want them to assume that the transformation is the end game, right? We're all agile now. So therefore, we are, we're innovative, because those two are not the same things. You can transform your culture, you can become agile, but that doesn't necessarily also bring you the innovation. So I think as companies make that shift and become able to deploy code to production and are writing more software and are, are doing all of those things, there's a certain degree of innovation and expectation around that that they should also bring in. Because I don't think, you know, having bean bags in an open workspace and, and matching t-shirts makes you innovative. Well, maybe. Actually, probably not. Brian, you know, what are your, you know, tell us a little bit about, you know, about data skill and the transformation you've had to go through. Yes, well for us, it was, do I have to turn this on? No, you're good. All right, good. You guys all can hear me. For us, it really was a top-down driven, a little bit of a sideline. Data skill does services. We've done a lot of traditional on-premise software, but our founder and CEO also races an offshore powerboat. So he's a world champion offshore powerboat racer and drives his boat at well over 150 miles an hour out in the ocean, you know, bouncing around. And he wanted to transform his sport. So when you watch on TV, you see all these great animations and overlays of data. If you watch NASCAR, and he wanted that to be available for the fans as well as his crew. So he wanted to be able to get all the data off of his boat and up for analysis and review in real time for his crew, and also in real time for his fans to be able to see on a webpage. And what he came back with and says, well, why is this hard? You know, why can't we just do this? Let's go innovate and let's make it happen at a reasonable cost. And I look at your pancake bot there and I actually started my career and my degree is in robotics. And so if you looked at what the cost and the idea of I could have a robot make a pancake would have been prohibitive, right? The amount of time it would have taken to build the interfaces to that, write the program to do the pancake. And now you can say, you know, hey, hey, Alexa, make me a smiley face. It's actually, you know, it's incredible. So I think the challenge for us is to not put some of our preconceptions on there of, well, this will cost too much or it's too hard. So, you know, what can we look at and say, oh, you know, we can do that. Let's try it out. Let's do it quickly. And for us, it was that being able to go to multiple different sources. We've got a lot of different race teams that we work with, each one of them with their own data stores and their own idea of where they're going to put data and what cloud services they may want to use. So we had to be able to very quickly be able to allow them to see across lots of different options. But we needed to consolidate that up into one view for our channel out to the race officials, the fans, and the crews. So Adam, what does that mean then, I think, you know, for your customers? You know, I think of, when I think of disruption, I think of just, and sometimes I just think of my own experiences as we all have had them when you could, you know, for me personally as a journalist, I could like, I could get a blog up to running in minutes and start posting to it, right? You know, that to me was like amazing self-service because I came from the newspaper world where, you know, you know, it was about, you had to get it printed, you know, it wasn't nearly as easy as a pancake, but I'll tell you that. And so, you know, so now, so now we're kind of moving into this world of self-serve, right? But it's not exactly self-serve, right? So, but you know, I'm curious about kind of some of those, you know, those things your customers want. Do they want the self-serve capabilities? Do they not want to have to have the services integration? Or do they want to compose the applications themselves? Or do they want to have those applications ready in May? Because we're talking about multi-cloud platforms. We talked about this yesterday. You're talking a lot about consuming the application infrastructure itself, right? Absolutely. So the first thing is no customer is the same as another customer. They all want something different. They all want it on demand and as fast as possible. The one consistency that we continuously see is about helping manage the complexity. And I think by having standards, certification and platforms that people can base and harness any change on, then it allows a focal point to happen to accelerate and people with trust. And then you can start bringing the organization and its people through a period of disruption, because it's always going to be disruptive, but we can help manage that with a core set of beliefs that you can then have across all of the organization and its people. And it's never about the technology. Technology is easy, right? It's about the people and the processes and changing the mindset. And I think you can do that by saying, here, here's a great example of a paradigm that works, whether it's based on Cloud Foundry technology or any other platform, it's a standardized capability that people can understand and it's a great story to tell because they can believe on it. Okay, so let's get to the people part of it, so it's very difficult to start really thinking about continuous integration, for example, and continuous delivery, right? So Chris, what are some of the pathways you're seeing to that? And what are the technology adoption curves that you need in terms of the people that you're having join you? So talking about disruption and transformation, IBM is going through a lot of that lately. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just a little bit. Anytime you try and take an organization that's got 370 or 80,000 people and do a left turn, it's a huge challenge. And some of it is technology, as you described. I mean, this is one of the reasons why we've embraced Cloud Foundry, but also that just one of the reasons we've embraced open source generally is because I think of disruption as really being in a state of not really paying attention to what's going on around you and being somewhat myopic and blinkered in your approach to things. When you're engaging out in open source and various open technology communities, I think it's a lot easier to sort of be aware of what's going on around you. And I think that helps you prepare better to be less likely to be disrupted for one. But the other aspect of it is just changing people's, to Abby's point, changing the whole culture of how you go about just how the company interacts with itself. So we hear a lot about the culture changing, but I'm wondering about, for some, like I'm getting this, let's get a little bit granular here, okay? So the workflows, right? The workflows change quite a bit, don't they? So like, traditionally you hear a lot of the story about throwing the application over to the networking team, right? So take us through that as an example. What is that transformation in the workflow that happens when you have to think differently about actually getting the application employed? It's a combination of changing the workflow and also getting people to be willing and capable of doing more than just the one thing that they were doing before. So typically you would have a development team and they would just develop. And then you would have a QA team and they would write the test. And the developers would never write the test. They can't write tests. They don't know how to write tests. And today, in order to achieve the kinds of transformation that we're going through inside IBM, we actually had to sort of completely break everything apart and reconstitute into these small two pizza-sized teams that were doing all of it. They were doing the development, the test, the CI pipeline, all one team, right? For a particular small micro-services kind of a thing. And this changes from having to interact with some of the department where you have a document of understanding between two different directors that they're going to do this on this kind of terms and so forth and give you the thing that, no, no, no, now the team just does it, right? And it doesn't have to be any kind of agreement because you've got this complicit agreement. We're a team. We have to succeed. We have a clear mission. And we're just going to go off and deliver this capability and continually improve it over time. And as long as you can set a clear direction from a corporate perspective, we're going to be doing cloud. We're going to be doing cognitive and analytics. Then you can sort of, things just sort of trickle down. You don't have to be in complete command and control. You're really setting a coherent strategy and letting people find their own path through that. Abby, so you came from Pivotal and, you know, at Pivotal, you have this, you know, they have this concept of pair programming. Can you explain that and how that fits into this discussion from disruption to transformation? Well, I think, you know, to add on to Chris's point, command and control. And that's really part of the, that's part of the framework and the mental set you have to break, right? You can't operate and command and control and drive at that scale and drive at that level. And so, and I think that's where pair programming really comes into play because you're having to, you know, as a developer, you're having to work in tandem with someone else at all times. And there's a focus and there is an expectation that you are a team. And going back to the cultural shift, you're changing the paradigm and you're asking people to think about what they do and how they do it very differently. And I think pair programming is a great way to reinforce those behaviors and reinforce that expectation that you're operating in a team, you're operating in a small, highly functional team that is focused on a business outcome. And I think that's part of the shift. And I think that's where going back to reinforce, you know, technology being a reinforcement as well as common habits and common practices, those become reinforcements of those behaviors which drive those outcomes. We've actually been using it also for skills transfer, right? So when we break the teams down and we put, you know, somebody from QA and somebody from development and somebody from operations to get, you know, put these people together, pairing and constant rotation helps to share those skills across the team and allows us to affect that transformation rather than having to go back to school and figure out how to write tests and stuff like that. So Adam, I'm curious from your perspective. So, you know, when you think about CloudSoft, right? You know, I think a simple way to think about it is a distributed control plane, right? You can compose applications, you know, across VMs, across containers, across bare metal. You know, have this kind of this capability that, you know, you really haven't had before. You know, that's something where these new technologies allows like this capability. How do you help them define the choices they need to make? So, you know, because you could start or is it, you know, or is it just saying to them, just try it? I mean, that's, to me, that's always seemed like to be the right way and one of the hardest things to do. Well, we've been working with Duncan and the CloudSoft team for quite some time and what we realized earlier on is that it's difficult to do application transformation and no matter how you try and change your application landscape, there will always be some a heterogeneous approach you need to take. So, there'll be old world and new world that have to work together. And the control plane and one of the reasons why we use the AMP product, we call it compose, is that it aligns really well with our strategy around all things Cloud Foundry. It allows us to run and join the old world and the new world architectures together. But also, when we're offering a fully managed service on an end-to-end basis, you want all of these things to work completely coherently. You don't want to have dozens of different management tools. You don't want to have complexity of not understanding where your logs are and how you can really get the value from proactively understanding the direction of your application landscape. So, then, and that way you can build added value services over and above that, that helps deliver a better service back to the customer. Brian, any other thoughts on that? In particular, I'm thinking about how, at data skill, you've gone through your own internal transformation. What are some of those things that you guys had to go through? Tell us about the technical kind of matters that came up. One of the interesting things to me is, if you think about kind of the change we're going through, there's identity issues. Am I a developer or am I a network engineer? There's different kinds of constructs now. So now, we used to think about IP and Ethernet. Now we're thinking about clusters and instances and dynamic fabrics and all the rest. Then the third part, you have open source, which makes for a much different kind of an organization. You've got to think about being almost like an inside-out organization. I've been talking a lot about that. You have an internal engineering team, but you're also participating in external open source communities. Yeah, and we're actually right in the thick of all of that. It's very timely. Following on what they were talking about earlier is we've got data streaming off of devices, a lot of devices from the engine to biometrics to weather. Okay, great. If we could just stop right there. How do you collect that data? Tell us about that. Where I was going with this is that that has to get from various different sources. One is from the boat itself, where we actually use a cellular and a UHF radio to be able to transmit that data. A lot of that data is being collected at 100 hertz, which is way more than you need to show a fan view. Now all of a sudden trying to pump 100 hertz for many, many different devices up through a cellular modem just doesn't work. We had to decide because of that constraint, how do we then put some of the smarts down at the device level? How do we push some edge analytics, push some coding down actually down at the device level and make it smarter about how it goes up? Who does that decision? It was a very interesting team get together to say, do we think this through or do we just start building it and trying it and trying different routes? Right now we have a lot of work going on what we call our squid down actually on the boat itself to be smart about how it's transmitting data. But at some point we need all of that data to do the analytics. We need that 100 hertz rate of data to be able to go through and see if there's indicators, predictive indicators, about oil pressure or about boost versus fuel pressure. That means we're going to actually blow up a $100,000 engine. You can't get that in real time, so how do you manage that? Do you take it in batches then? Yeah, so right now we decided to start small and work on just the shorter data rate more visible indicators. So oil pressure is dropping down to zero or going above a certain amount. Throw a big red light on the dash, throw a big red light to the crew chief. We did have a lot of struggles trying to figure out because there's so many different routes to get there. Who is making that final decision? Which engineer, which person is driving that final design architecture? My position was always, well, let's try out three different ways, see which works best. If it's cheap enough and you've got time to do it, let's do it. But then, of course, the people above me are saying, no, no, you've got to tell me what you're going to do. So it's a challenge. So if I could address the question you asked about sort of working in open source with closed source, you know, product development teams. And one of the things that struck me is that, you know, this sort of this transition towards increased continuous integration and delivery where open source projects like Cloud Foundry are sort of pioneering and they're not just shipping code every six months or once a year, they're shipping code every week or every two weeks. And how does, you know, how does a closed source team keep up with that? It used to be closed source development would use open source by just, you know, they would just download the dependency and it would be frozen in time on some DVD, you know, for years and years and years to come. Increasingly, these things, these worlds are so intertwined now that the continuous integration delivery from the open source is now sort of infusing the same continuous integration delivery of a closed source development team to the point where they treat it all as a single code base internally. But it's really helped sort of turn people's view towards more open collaboration, which I think generally helps to accelerate the right and pace of innovation. Good. So I want to open up to questions. And yesterday I sat down with Sam Ramji and, you know, with two very smart young developers and I thought maybe, Sam, if I could present you with the first pancake here, the first question pancake, Sam Ramji, the CEO of the Cloud Foundry Foundation. Maybe you can, you know, talk, maybe have a question for these folks or basically kind of like what insights do you glean from them? Because it's actually a very interesting discussion just about how, you know, how they're bringing on people, you know, and how they're training them and what transformation is made for them. What do you think the best way to bring a large organization up to speed on cloud technologies is specifically Cloud Foundry, obviously, but it represents such a different approach to programming. And when we think about what we've done in Silicon Valley, we're usually talking about 40-person teams. But the companies we're talking about are, you know, 1,000 person, 10,000 person teams. We keep hearing that the restriction on adoption is we just can't hire people fast enough. All states at it, you know, almost every major speaker, Comcast, has said it. So what guidance do you have for the community on how to get there fast? We all look at Chris. You know, it's interesting, you know, and this is coming again from sort of an IBM perspective, typically dealing with Fortune 500 companies with, you know, your search traditional software sales cycle of, you know, you schmooze the CTO or the CIO or whatever and his or her team and, you know, and you have to set up a POC and it's all very expensive. And what we're finding is that that's, you know, it's unnecessary, right? And what is starting to become, I think, a little bit more effective is engaging developers directly, right? They're not afraid to just sort of get an account on Bluemix or PWS or whatever it is and kick the tires and try something out, especially when it can be done in, you know, in the short term of a, you know, a two or three hour hackathon, right? And so, you know, increasingly it's through meetups and through hackathons and so forth that we're starting to build this sort of bottom up approach to having this technology adopted. And then the senior managers start hearing about it and they're like, oh, I need to know more about this. And it really turns the whole cycle on itself. I have a question for the audience. Raise your hand if you've been to a meetup in the past year. And look at that, almost everyone. In the past six months, in the past three months, in the past month, in the past week, awesome. All right. So tell us why, why don't you tell us what meetup you went to? And this is a, and tell us who you are. And we met yesterday. Hi, my name is Siddharth. I go to the University of Wisconsin-Madison. So last week, I went to a Stanford igniters and entrepreneurs meetup by Don Douglas. He's a game entrepreneur, renowned entrepreneur in Silicon Valley. It was a great meetup. He talked about startups and how he got into the industry and it was great. My question is like, you know, these companies? Sure. So I haven't been to a lot of meetups, but when I go there, I see a lot of people who are older than me. So they're mostly in a company working for a company. They're either engaged in their own startup or they've been working on, you know, their company's ideas in emerging technology. So I go to meetups where they're more entrepreneurial focused and, you know, geared towards innovation. So I meet people who are software developers, entrepreneurs and people who are just engaged to learn and innovate. So what are you curious about when you're talking to the companies? What are the questions that you're having? Are they more technical oriented or are they more entrepreneur oriented? I would say both because I'm really interested in the conversions of both the tech and the entrepreneurial side. I have a question, and this actually came up in the fireside chat with Dell yesterday, that companies, particularly larger companies, are finding new opportunities and new channels to reach students that are in college and considering a field and they're using Cloud Foundry and the Cloud technology as a way to really extend that and make it seem interesting. Is that appealing to someone like you, where these larger organizations are shifting to agile methodologies and are using technologies like Cloud Foundry to change the way that they function and they work? Is that appeal? Definitely. And for me personally too, when I heard about Cloud Foundry, I just went online and I wanted to learn more about it. And it was there in the first page. So things like that, engaging students, like offering student discounts and giving us access to a lot of technology was one of the factors why I was interested in this. And like you mentioned, companies that are opening up their boots and they come to our career fairs, they talk about meetups and they have these information sessions. So it's definitely engaging. At least in my university too, from my experiences, we have an internal things lab on campus and we have a lot of campus engagement with companies and it's been very helpful for us to learn and engage with the community. So this seems like a good opportunity for companies that are trying to hire is having a better outreach program and using the new technologies and using the innovations as a way of pulling people in and increasing the pipeline and increasing that pipeline of new development. That seems quite relevant, doesn't it? I'm curious from our panelists, maybe, Adam, when you're going out into the community, what kind of things are you asking? What kind of questions are you trying to get answered when you're talking to people who are developers or ops persons or like the people who are here? What are the questions you have? I think it's about helping people understand quite a complex set of new technologies and they really want to understand how they can become part of it. So at ASOS we have an extensive internship program as well and a lot of the people that I've actually had working on my products around Cloud Foundry are literally fresh, not even going to university in some cases. They are straight out of school and we immediately build a community around that person to give that support. So how do you build a community around a person? It's important that we have the support networks in place that we make aware. We've got things like Slack for asking questions and we always make sure that we're doing pair programming for example and it's a learning culture. It has to be a learning culture because people want to have and thrive on that knowledge for more information and we're all learning as we continue to develop open source. That's what the whole community spirit is about, right? Yeah, Brian, do you bring them out on a speedboat or something like that? Yeah, unfortunately we don't get to go for joy rides in the boat. We're working on the number two boat to enable that and for us we had a fairly small developer team and so really we just said go out, get an account, try and build up something quick and easy for us. So just pick a project of your own and I'd be curious as to after your meetups do you go and build something or do something afterwards to try it out and so we just wanted to make sure that our developers had that access to be able to do that. So competitions and hackathons can really happen in that space. So what have you been building? So I've been working with Google's Project Kango and I've been working with Bluemix and Raspberry Pi so back in the lab and back at home too I've been developing and I have a team we're working on Google's Project Kango. I don't know if you're all familiar with it. It's an integrated depth sensor and indoor navigation all integrated into one mobile device. So like a mobile device that can see and think like humans and can navigate indoors without the use of a GPS or Wi-Fi or Bluetooth beacons and I've been just programming and hacking on it for the past six months and I've been developing an app that can navigate indoors in my engineering building. So this is what we do so we try to go to hackathons and meet new developers and form a team so in the future if we can brainstorm and come up and come with an idea we start working on it. So like you said after meetups we do network and try to find people who are like-minded and want to work on innovating new things. Does anyone have any questions at all who like to you know just for the general crowd or for the panelists as well? Any questions about teams and you know and how you build your teams or the technology challenges? Anyone have any okay great here we go we'll get the mic for you. It's been a lot in that press lately about co-location versus remote work and how do you see that evolving as the push towards two pizza teams and higher efficiency comes to the front? Chris? Sure. So it's interesting you know I've started working on the Hyperledger project and you know this is one of those sort of exciting new things you know around blockchain and what I found really interesting is that you know people are coming from across the globe. I've got a number of individuals whether they work for a company or whether this is a number of students from China, from Singapore, from Australia, from Europe, from the States, from South America all sort of engaging, wanting to sort of and and sort of very much like what Siddhartha was talking about in terms of this is some cool technology I want to see what I can do with it I want to hack on it for a while and so you've got contributions coming in and they're all very dispersed. Now the interesting thing there is that everybody there is coming at it from the scratch and itch kind of a perspective right and then you have a need for I need to get stuff I need to sort of meet certain deadlines to be able to deliver a project and so forth and that I think typically requires a certain degree of colocation so I think the the challenge is in balancing out I think where the real innovation happens is on those scratch and itch kind of contributions whereas in order to get things done typically it requires a certain degree of face-to-face collaboration colocation just to increase the fidelity and the bandwidth of communications so it's a delicate balance and I think it'll continue to evolve in that way that we'll find ways of whether it's a through a dojo or some other kind of co-located experience to do development paired with a lot of you know contributions coming in from people just scratching an itch. But I would argue that one of the things that should be that we should be focused on as a community is how to improve that fidelity with more global and remote workforces because I think at the end of the day if we're all working towards one thing which is innovating and being as innovative as possible with the technology that isn't something we can expect to house in a single room and it's in a single company in a single organization and I think figuring out how we can better connect that and improve that fidelity for people as as we bring in more remote workforces around the world and bring them all to the same projects that I think is a huge hurdle that I don't know that we've actually solved for now. I think that the only hurdle that I've seen and I've got a very highly distributed team which is I believe highly performant as well the only thing you need to invest in more is the network because you've got good quality network and you've got the right tools we're using the right tracker you've got the backlog sorted we have our IPMs we have our reg rows we have pairing remote pairing it works. You need artisanal internet. It works I mean as long as long as. It's a joke it's a joke that's never gonna go away Greg never gonna go away. Well I mean you know we joke about artisanal containers too so you know you know all's very good. So we got about five ten five minutes left really to you know for some last questions anyone have any other questions out there I want to make sure that there's one last pancake here it's a little bit broken up. It's been disrupted we got a question we got a question in the back. All right I am from the artisanal company if you guys haven't figured that out. So we love Cloud Foundry and with newer technologies like container networking that brings a lot of challenges with security and PCI compliance which you know we are running into enforcing security policies at the top layer where the infrastructure folks control it or do we enforce it at the container layer you know there are lots of questions what are your guys views about how security is going to go with all these new features which enable a lot of internal communication but creates a nightmare for people who are managing the infrastructure. Wow what a question. So security and in particular securing networks is something that I don't believe there's a particular shortcut for yeah I think we love the fact that the level of security we get inherently within the Cloud Foundry platform helps us but in particular for an organization like ASUS where we will manage a Cloud Foundry for an organization on-premise off-premise on a public or private cloud you still need when you're doing that deployment of a Cloud Foundry and the applications that you hope your customer is going to continue to build an accelerated way on the platform you need to make sure that networking capability is right and in particular that one of the things that we take really seriously is we have to manage that platform on our customers behalf and so we spend a significant amount of time of course working with government organizations and very large-scale Fortune 500 companies as well where we have to do regular audits but we also trust in the community continuously to help do the great work they're doing at the moment about the regular patching identification of any CVEs and what we've seen in particular because of the size of the community now it's wonderful how quickly things are getting done so I think it's one of the reasons why there's a massive increase in adoption Brian parallel to that we're seeing a lot of issues around ownership of the data particularly in the health care so it's not only the permissions but once that gets out there you know who owns that you know set of markers that they found in the DNA sequences and there's a for-profit company out there making benefit off of data that was brought out from others so along with just simply the you know the security of the data we're looking at a lot of companies where they want to keep it in-house behind their firewall because to them it's a it's an IP asset and again it's something that's a work in progress that's happening but I'll add in that to your theme of transformation I think we're also in the midst of revisiting what we are assumptions around security compliance network architecture as we think about abstraction layers and we think about deployments and even microservices and what does that mean I think there's also an opportunity for us to figure out different ways of approaching it and moving away from the traditional framework that exists and for example in PCI DSS v3 there's a lot of assumptions and compensating controls you need to interject in order to accommodate the fact that it doesn't even recognize that in containers so figuring out how we shift the paradigm a little bit as well but that's one of the reasons why we're working with with cloudsoft because the service broker technology that they have allows us to have a consistency in the way that we're addressing and accessing the data in a standardized way which we know is secure and fully compatible with the certified platforms that we run Chris any last thoughts yeah so I think you know Jason actually I think really gave the exact with the right message because and it is it's all about continuous improvement it's about you know many eyes make shallow bugs the fact that we're constantly sort of we're testing this you know thoroughly it's all being test-driven in terms of cloud foundry you know that you have a number of people that are scrutinized the code is there for anybody to see you know those those types of bugs will be will be sussed out I think the networking complexities are are going to require not just the technology aspects of things but moving the needle on the regulatory and other compliance measures because as as as was just said those were developed for yesteryear for a different world right and and so we have to evolve those and they have to be transformed just as we're tech as we're being transformed by the underlying technology and that's a wrap hey guys thanks so much for for joining us on the panel Abby Adam Brian Chris thank you very much your participation thank you all for joining us at the pancake breakfast and we'll hope to see you soon bye bye and I just again want to thank cloud foundry and cloud soft for sponsoring the breakfast and being so generous here so have a great day