 Hello, this is Carl Ackerman, host of Journeys of the Mind. You know, today I have the lovely co-host, Sherry Nakamura, who is gonna be asking our wonderful guest from the beat in Berkeley, Roger Dillahunty. And of course, the show was talking about dancing into the studio because Roger has had such a long-term career in dance. And of course, Sherry has had two. And so this should be an interesting conversation about dance. And I will be asking Roger some biographical questions and Sherry will leave it to Sherry to talk about dance because she's the expert. So, Roger, tell us about your journey. I know you grew up in Southern California because I went to high school with you. So tell us about your journey in Santa Monica and then going to the Bay Area and how you got involved with dance. Well, thank you first of all, Carl, for having me here. And it's a really wonderful meeting you, Sherry. Well, in Santa Monica, I actually was more into music. As you know, we both were inquired together. And so it wasn't until I actually moved to the Bay Area that I actually started to get involved in dancing. And so, but my experience with dance started even before I lived in Southern California when I was in Arkansas as a child. This was in the 50s. I would listen to these vinyl records that my mother and my aunt would play. I would listen to music and I would dance around. And even at school, I danced and we had contests and we had productions. And so those are my early experiences with dancing and I fell in love with dancing. But it wasn't until I moved to the Bay Area that I decided I wanted to take dance. Sherry, we mentioned a person, a mentor, my Celia Martha. I met Celia Martha and her sister, Elvia at a party and they were so inspirational to me. I kind of left my body when I danced with them. And at the end of the party, there was a person who came up and said, oh, you guys are such beautiful dancers. And I said, no, I'm not a dancer. They're the dancers. And they both looked and said, baby, you are a dancer also. That was the beginning of me really, really having the bug for dancing by me. But it wasn't until a couple of years later that I actually started to take formal training. My first classes were at Laney College where I started a modern dance class. And then I started taking some jazz and ballet. And I decided I wanted to further my teaching experience and training, so I went to the College of Alameda. And all of this happened in 1976. And between 76 and 78, I did some intense training. I ended up being like the TA for all the dance instructors who were on staff at the College of Alameda. And that was how I got sort of my formal teaching training. I had mentors that were wonderful. One of my teachers was a dancer. She went on to do chorus live. She was in the National Company for Chorus Live. So this was all in between 1976 and 1978. Then in that same timeframe, I got involved with a group called the Planet of Dance. And this was my first professional job where I got paid. The Planet of Dance was actually a program that went into the schools. We did assemblies in the different schools around the Bay Area. And we would teach children the similarities and the differences between the different dance forms, you know, like comparing ballet and it's cousin modern. And it is weird cousin modern, they called it. And then there are distance cousin jazz. And then they had these distant relatives, which was the African dancing and also the classical Indian dancing. And of course we had a child that was the same age as those children who were the person who took us on that journey to the Planet of Dance. And that was a wonderful segue for me to start my teaching. So I started teaching children. And I taught in over 40 schools all over the Bay Area. And that's the beginning of my dancing. Well, I'm gonna let Sherry, our co-host, ask you questions about dance now because as I said, she's an expert. And what I didn't say is that Sherry danced on Broadway. So she's the perfect person to ask Roger questions. Well, thank you Carl for this opportunity. And Roger, even in that short snippet, I do have a number of questions. So myself included, I didn't start taking ballet as a child, but I realized or I came to know when I went to New York to study that it is foundational. Cause I was a jazz dancer. My era was the Michael Jackson era and I wanted to dance in music videos. And so I started there, but then I went back and studied ballet as well as some contemporary. So I had to sort of backtrack. And it sounds like you did that a little bit too. Was that difficult for you to go from sort of a free, a movement genre to a more strict genre in the classical dancing structure? Yes, it definitely was because I had no idea what it entailed. I didn't have the flexibility. I started very late. I was 23 when I just danced. So yes, it was very difficult in the beginning, acquiring a level of technical skills. That was one of the things that was really, really difficult for me. But I fell in love with it. So even though there were hard times and we struggles, it was a challenge and I rose to the occasion. Right, right. So you must have had pretty amazing teachers and mentors along the way that gave you some encouragement, specifically because you were a late starter. And maybe you can talk about some of those teachers who influenced you and helped you along. Yes, let me think back. The first teacher I had was Jones Agata. She was a black belt and karate. Her husband was the karate instructor at the College of Alameda. She was a strict disciplinary. I mean, I couldn't do any of the things that she did in the beginning. It was very, very challenging and difficult, but she was a wonderful mentor in that she was nurturing. And so it was very, very encouraging. And she was the person that really helped me when I had my first major dance injury. It was through her that I was able to get and seek the medical help that I needed to help me get through that. I also had a wonderful teacher, Pam Drake, told me one of the dancers that she danced with Dance Between the Lines, which was a professional show that was being held in San Francisco. Henry Garvin was the choreographer. And Pam Drake was really instrumental in helping me to become a teacher. She was really a mentor. I mean, I acquired a lot of skills through her. And she later on went to do Chorus Lie with another dear friend of mine, Woodrow Thompson, who was in the international company. But I also worked with, there was Yvonne Daniels, who did the Donham Techniques. So I did Donham Technique through Yvonne Daniels, Eleanor Barnes, who was a jazz instructor. I took through her. Naima Gwen-Lewis, who was, I think she's in Washington, DC now. She was also very instrumental in helping me and was a wonderful mentor. And I also got to, as later on, when I acquired more technique and started to experience a bit warmer, I started to work with more renowned teachers and there's a whole list of things that I'm interested about. Right, so Carl, you may imagine that in the dance world, right, we come across these artists and we can learn from them and build our own artistry through the influence of others. I'm kind of interested about your performing career. It sounds like you had a performing career and also a teaching career. And probably I'm assuming you're also a choreographer. So maybe you can speak a little bit about your performing career. Maybe what was the most, I don't know, euphoric experience or memorable experience in your performing career. We'll start with that. Well, I have had a lot of opportunities to perform. There are a lot of highlights. And for example, in 1983, I had the opportunity to do the Universidad Games up in Edmonton, Canada. So that was a wonderful experience for me because it was, I got the opportunity to choreograph the show that we were presenting. It was through a theater arts group out of San Francisco. And we went up for the games for the week that was held in Edmonton. But also that following year in 84, I was a part of the Olympics Arts Festival in Los Angeles. And so we performed down in Japan town. That was a wonderful highlight. And the same year I went to Martinique, where my choreography was featured in the opening number for an international festival in Martinique. And that same summer, I had the opportunity to travel throughout Germany and went throughout Europe. And later on, had the opportunity to do workshops in Berlin, workshops in Vienna, in Austria. I did a decade of performing up in Juneau, Alaska through Juneau, a limited, which is a dance company that would host guest artists from all over the states. And so I had the opportunity to go there for almost, for over a decade. And that was wonderful. Have you been to Juneau? I've never been to Juneau. No, so yeah. So I have a whole list of performance experiences. I also got the opportunity to work with Alonso King, was a member of a six-member dance company called City Center Dance Theater. And we danced together for about 10 years. Originally there were six of us. Later on, we opened the company up for other members to join in. And that's who I went to Martinique with. But Alonso King set a piece on our company. I got the opportunity to work with Diane McIntyre out of New York, Kale, Tali Beattie, who set a piece on us. So I've had a number of wonderful experiences in the same amount for y'all. It sounds like it, it sounds like it. Let me just interrupt here. I'm just for a second, Sherry, sorry. Roger, because Sherry eloquently talked about your teaching part of your career also. And I'm very interested in how you establish your studio. And I've heard stories from Sherry about how difficult it is to be in the arts and where she made her career in New York City and was, and actually was able to make it as an artist and as a dancer. But my question is, how did you start the beat? And I wanna, you know, if you go into your wonderful studio there's a picture of Gregory Hines and you later told me in conversation because I just happened to ask about an old friend of mine someone who I knew as an undergraduate at Berkeley. She was in law school, I was an undergraduate named Fonda Davis, Angela Davis and sister. And you said that both women have frequented the beat studio. So I'm curious about your following on Sherry's fine question about your teaching but more importantly, how you establish this business. Oh my goodness. Well, you know, for me it was kind of a hard transition to go from being a teaching artist to a business person. It has some experience because as an independent contractor most dancers are independent contractors. As an independent contractors I had to know where my money was going and where it was coming from. And so I had to establish a way of being able to do finances and that. But I also got a lot of training through the Jillian Oregon in Berkeley that did collaborative work with the Lincoln Institute out of New York. And so I got to learn a methodology of teaching that not only enhanced my teaching as a teaching artist in the schools with the children but also with adults and also credential teachers. So I got to do that collaboration. But through them I also got the experience of being able to facilitate. So that allowed me to be able to see that I could run a dance studio. But it was difficult because that changed from the teaching artist to a business person took a lot. So what I had to do and I have a list of things because I won't remember everything. Let's see the structure of put the studio together. Of course, one has to get a business license. You have to have an employee identification number which is the E, the E-I-N. And now I think California causes the U-E-I which is the unique entity identifier. You also have to have a big, I can't even say it, business name and a mission state. So I created a mission state and I also had to get a 1023 form filing. I had to get the IRS 501-C3 which, you know, my studio is a non-profit. Had to get the state of California Department of Justice, a letter from them. We had to get an SOS which is the secretary of the state, a letter from the secretary of the state, management record fees, liability insurance. So all of those were the technical aspects putting together the business. But the history itself didn't start with the beat, the Berkeley Performing Arts. Originally, the studio was known as Studio J. And Studio J was actually started by a woman named John, John Flint, and Studio J was actually her initial. And John hired me to come in to be one of the first jazz instructors and she was lovely. And, but she only had the studio for three years. She passed away in 88, but this was 85 when I started. So the studio went from Studio J and it was run after she passed away by two ladies up until 1999. In 1999, it became the beat Eddie Brown Center of the Arts. Now Eddie Brown Center of the Arts was run by a woman named Babs Yo-hai who was also friends with, cause Carl mentioned Gregory Hines. She was also friends with Gregory Hines and Gregory Hines had frequent Studio J a number of times. He would do master classes, but they were in house master classes. It wasn't open to the public. So a whole students and teachers at Studio J in the beginning were able to attend the later on, the beat Eddie Brown Center of the Arts. And in 2006, I became the manager of Eddie Brown Center of the Arts. And as the manager I came in and there were some priorities that the owner at the time wanted to oversee to bring the studio up. This was I think during the beginning of the dot com crisis. So a lot, there were a lot of closures. A lot of studios were just all in like dominoes. In fact, during those years, I lost a lot of my work, you know, 45 years at a school, Cabrillo Elementary School, 10 years at the Japanese by links top. It's the C third way, all of those studios close the C city center dance theater. A lot of places had the problems where they couldn't keep up with their rents and stuff like that. So a lot of things changed. So becoming the manager was a segue for me to get more experience in my business. And in 2008, I took over and then that's what I went in. And I, as I mentioned before, I got my business license, I got incorporated, you know, and we got our nonprofit status that same year and we became the beat the Berkeley Performing Arts. So as a 2008 to presence, that's where we stand. And just a follow up comment that I'm gonna let Sherry ask another question and that is, you know, you had mentioned to me when we talked about this interview that you had to figure out how you're gonna not be at the beads because you had classes going on. So we're really grateful for your attendance here, Roger and this you being here and answering questions. So before I get to Sherry, I wanna also mention that, you know, your career in music also, because you share that with Sherry, was quite significant. And I think you're being very modest about your choir experience in Santa Monica High School because of course, sitting near you was Jubilant Sykes who's gone on and had a wonderful singing career. And you know, people had, you know, many people had, not me of course, but many people had perfect pitch in that, in that giant choir and you had Stella Gray and other people, you know, had really good pitch. And I have to make this comment, it's a personal aside is that I was always very happy because you're also very kind to someone who is Elizabeth Hicks now but was a 2D acrobat at the time. And you're always so kind to 2D. So Sherry? Well, no, I don't, it's not that, I don't have any questions at the top of my head, but I just wanna make a comment. I know how difficult it is to maintain a dance studio, especially through the years and turbulent economic time. So it's really a testament to your creativity and your discipline and the effort you've put in. And so it's very, very impressive. I wanna take your class actually. So I hope you have any video classes online still. Well, it's, I mean, I know, I love dancing myself. I actually still teach dancing at a ballet studio. I teach basic ballet to adults. And sometimes you're so tired that, you know, you feel like, oh no, I can't do this anymore. But then the music starts and you're with the students and you're actually moving to music and it's what it's all about. And afterwards I always say, I'm so glad I'm doing this. But sometimes, especially as the years go on, it's harder to get yourself up to do the class sometimes. So really it hats off to you for sustaining a studio or actually even taking over the studio and making it your own. And, you know, following up on what Sherry just said is, you know, why Berkeley? You mentioned that you've been in Berkeley for a long time and, you know, I can't give enough praise to that city because I love good and I spent many years there going to college, but why Berkeley, Roch? Well, what is it about and the location of your studio, which is right near this where they're renovating and there's all these shops and everything looks so great and you're not too far away from the San Francisco Bay. Why Berkeley and, you know, why the beat where it is today? Well, you just said it. It's the location and the people. I'd love the Bay Area and when I first moved here was Oakland and, you know, and I enjoyed where I was staying when I was in Oakland. When I moved to Berkeley, it just, it felt like home. You know, I mean, I've traveled, I had the opportunity to travel all over the world and I always appreciate when I come back home and I know all in the house I lived in, but I've lived in it for 46 years and so to me that is my refuge. And we're near everything. I mean, we're close to Redwoods. San Francisco is just across the bay. You know, we have the mountains, we have the sea, we have the bay. All these things are factors, but Berkeley is just a wonderful place to be. I love it. I just think, oh, no, Sherry, you go. Well, no, I just, I mean, it's probably gonna be a long answer, but I'm curious to know how you approach school kids and dancing because of course there are kids who already have sort of a natural ability, but there are those who don't. So how do you spark the interest for these little people? Well, first of all, I give them a voice and I teach them how to be able to see the world with just using their senses, their eyes. So I first make them aware of all the different intelligences they use to be able to process. So visually, auditorily, aesthetically, analytically. And so we do, I actually put together a lesson plan or each class that is kind of like a script. And it basically shows what we're gonna do from the beginning to the end, get introductions and using all these different activities that's engaging, that helps them to be able to do only visual things, to be able to only rely on, be able to use their eyes to be able to take your information and or only using their ears. So no talking, just being able to see and hear and feel patterns. I have a line of inquiry, which is the question that is gonna be the umbrella of the things we're gonna be covering over all sessions. But then I have guiding questions that the activities are created around and those are the lens and the threads that go back into the lot of inquiry. And so everything is reinforced, and in this method, the kids love it because it's their own creativity. There's no wrong answers, it's all open-ended. And so it really, really helps them to be better listeners. They'd be more attentive, being able to use their eyes. And the most difficult thing is silence, being able to be still, that's a hard thing to do. And so, all the classes reinforce all these things, visually, auditorily, both, embodying all these different qualities. That's very cool. And I have to say, observing both of you, that it's really a credit to both of you in your hard work to have established careers in the arts. So, I wanna ask this question of both Sherry and Roger. If you have to give advice to younger people who are gonna be watching this video on the show, on Think Tech Hawaii, what advice would you give them in terms of they're like a high school kid and they wanna go into the arts professionally? Well, what advice, and we don't have much time left, but short advice, let's start with Sherry and then go to Roger. I would encourage it, but tell them that it's hard. It's hard work, but I would, if they wanna do it, I have support of all the way. And I did it, I also did all that in that it's very, very difficult. It's hard to see how a person sees himself as being successful, for example. And so, what happens is we tend to make goals for ourselves that are too hard for us to achieve. It's when you want something, you have to work for it. But don't be so hard on yourself. Do it in increments. Set goals that are easy to be achieved and you can succeed. Because once you get to a certain stage, you can look back and you can say, oh, I was there, but now I'm here. And so, but if you make it too high and too far, then one of the problems I find is the children are too impatient. If they don't get it instantly, they don't wanna do it. Oh, I'm bored. I don't like this. It's too hard, nothing comes easy, but if you work on it, you can set your sights on something and you can achieve anything that you go for. So, I would just say if you wanna dance, dance. And that's a great way to segue to the end of this show because you're dancing into the studio. Mr. Roger Dillahunti, thank you co-host Sherry Nakamura. This is Carl Ackerman, host of Journeys of the Mind for Think Tech Hawaii, Hui Ho and Aloha Toll. Thank you for having me. Thank you. Thank you, Roger. Thank you, Sherry.