 Okay, just a few people entering the room, but I think it's time that we can already start. Welcome, first of all, to the session, recurring revenue for your Drupal shop. I think each of you watched the keynote of Trees on the first day, and I was a little bit inspired by that keynote for my session because we felt that everybody is waiting for Drupal 8, and that's not just I wanted to be there because I need the features, it also has a business impact. And I talked to many Drupal development shops here at DrupalCon, and I realized that, yeah, people are waiting that their business starts to grow again with Drupal 8 because in a transactional business model, which most of Drupal shops have, you always need to search new projects, you always need new projects, and actually many people are waiting for Drupal 8 to come out, and only few care about Drupal 7. And in this session I want to talk about methods and share experience, how it is possible for a Drupal shop to use the existing core competency to grow recurring revenue to be more independent from, yeah, situations that we have right now where we wait for a new business that is closely tied to the release of Drupal 8. To introduce myself, my name is Manuel Pistner. I was, I founded Pride Solutions in 2006. I studied computer science, that's my background. I'm passionate about sports and improving business processes using Drupal. The answer to the question, why there is a sense in growing recurring revenue for a Drupal shop, yeah, is easy today because we are all waiting for new business and those Drupal shops that have recurring revenue implemented or have a recurring revenue business model implemented, they don't have the needs to, yeah, get new projects to always try to keep their business instead of growing their business. And in my session I want to give some examples about what works and what does not work. There's a good message and a bad message about that because the bad messages, I cannot tell you 100% what works. The good message is that I can show you some templates that you can use to implement some new business models or new ideas to grow your recurring revenue but it's not a guarantee that it will work for you as well. All of you might know the situation. You get a new request from a potential client. It's a huge revenue and you think, wow, now we are growing, we have new projects, we can stuff up our team, our business is growing with that new customer, we will make it up to, yeah, 10% in revenue or in stuffing up our people. But there is one trade-off and you should always check if this revenue that you get is a good one or a bad one. Why good and bad revenue? It's a fact that you can grow to death. I'm not sure if you have some friends or if you know some other companies that struggled with the situation where they've grown and grown and grown and finally they fall down to the bottom. Hopefully the company still exists but they don't do very well. And that's the kind of revenue that is not sustainable. That's the kind of revenue that lets you grow to death because you cannot plan reliably and you cannot build and grow your business based on the things that you achieved in the past. You always need more and more and more to fit your team, to pay your expenses that also grow with stuffing up your team. And that's the problem and why I make the difference between good revenue and between bad revenue. At the end, what counts is what remains and the profit of course. There is no sense in making 100,000 euro in revenue and the loss of 10,000 because you have a bad contract, you have not so good customer or the customer orders a project that has no value for you and also no value for him. What is good revenue? Good revenue if it is predictable. If you can predict that you will earn a certain amount of money and you will have a certain amount of revenue in the next one, six, or even 12 months because you can plan with it. That's the attribute that makes recurring revenue very attractive. Yeah, project business is dangerous. Who would not agree with that? No hands up, okay. Who will agree with that project business is dangerous for you or for triple shops? Okay, nevertheless we all work in a project business and it's not only bad. It's a good thing because you already have business and you can base or build new business models based on that business that already exists. We will come to this point later in a few slides and we will see how it can work and how existing projects can be a pool for innovation. The only problem is that project business is hard to predict. It's also hard to scale. If you want to scale your projects you need to scale it with people. You always need additional people if you have additional work. And I think you might know the situation that you either have too few people or too few projects. There are only a few months where you have enough people, enough projects and you also make profit. And that's the thing I think we can fix with a recurring revenue model that is implemented in our triple shop. Yeah, and what makes the project business dangerous is dependencies that are a one by one relationship or a many by one relationship just as in this graphic here. Very often we see examples where we have many developers serving one customer. That's exactly the example that happens when you get a new client, a big one. He gives you lots of revenue and you add many developers to your team that serve this one client. It's obvious if you watch that chart that if this one client quits the working relationship with you, what will happen with the other developers? You need to feed them, you need to pay them, they need their work, and they all rely on this one client. And that's a very dangerous dependency. And this dependency is the same vice versa. If you have one developer that serves a few clients, that's also not a healthy dependency because if you lose that one developer and he takes away the whole knowledge that is necessary to serve the other clients, your business is somehow in danger or even lost. And another thing is if you are a business owner, I think you care about the value of your company. And I know that many of you think that the company is worth at least two times the revenue that it generates in a year. But if you have a closer look at how companies are valued, then you will see that it's not the revenue that remains or that counts for the value of the company. It's on the one side the profit and on the other side it's what remains if all your people leave. And now take a classical triple shop and assume that all developers leave the company how much revenue remains during the next one month or even a year. And if you take the revenue that remains in the next year, that's the value of the company. You may multiply it by two, but zero times two is again zero. All right, that means who of you guys has more than 20% remaining revenue if you kick all your developers. 10%, five, zero, also a few. Okay, yeah, and that's a dangerous thing. That's exactly the dangerous thing and that's the issue that we can fix somehow if we have recurring revenue that is generated by something like a revenue machine where not only the developers are the ones that generate the revenue, but an object, a thing, whatever you build. We will come up to this point later. Yeah, that's how a revenue machine should work. A revenue machine is something that is built by many and serves many. You don't have a one to one or many to one dependency from or between people. You only have the dependency to this thing in the middle that I want to call revenue machine, it's easier. If you cut it away, of course your business is in danger, but it will not die, it will not leave the company, it will not get ill and if it's ill, many people can fix it because many people build that machine. And it's not only serving one customer and if that customer is away, this revenue machine will lose its complete value and its complete revenue because it serves many customers and that's the template we should have in mind when thinking about ideas that generate recurring revenue. And talking about, not talking about a business, but talking about freelancers, I think there are also ways for freelancers to grow recurring revenue and that's a healthy thing for yourself because you don't need to stress up yourself always getting new projects. You can also build something like a revenue machine selling, for example, support contracts that give you a passive income and this passive income makes your business more sustainable and more predictable and lets you sleep at night. Yeah, why is the project business unpredictable? A project in its nature is always something new. That's why we do projects. We have a situation, we want to improve something and to do so we need to build something one time and after this goal is achieved and the product has been built by the project, the project is done. Of course we have agile development, that's an ongoing process, but there is a time when the project is finished and for project-based businesses that means the revenue is cut in the same way. A project has a fixed start and a fixed end and it's nature that usually you have big revenue with one project, okay? That's in general a good thing but we always fell too secure if we have a new client with big revenue we think, oh, we own the world, now we can stuff up our team, we can invest in marketing, we can hire or rent a bigger office building or whatever and that's a dangerous thing and that's why a project business is unpredictable with all these attributes. Why is it hard to scale? I already mentioned it before, if you have a new project and you want an additional one, you always need to add new headcount to your team and new headcount is a good thing of course but it's very expensive, it's in general the most expensive thing or the most expensive investment that is also unpredictable that you can do. That means if you have more projects, you get more revenue, if you have more projects on the other side, you have higher expenses, more people. If the project stops, the revenue stops as well but people keep in the company. If you stuff up your team, if you work with let's say freelancers, contractors or partner with other companies that do the work for you, for your projects, that's a little bit more predictable and it scales better but I think that's also kind of risky because you always rely on the availability of your partners. Yeah, so project business is somehow called a transactional business model. That means you do something, you get the money, you give the product away and that's it. Maybe you can sell additional services or the customer contracts you again to rebuild the product because now there's Triple 8 and everything needs to be done again or to migrate it or to operate it. Anyway, you need to start every year from zero. I think all of you guys know the situation when you are at the end of the year and you think what will happen next year? That was a great year, we earned let's say one million and then there comes up the question how should we do this again in the next year? Because you start from zero, maybe you take away some clients with ongoing projects to the next year and they will add some revenue to your company but basically you need to start from zero and win new clients or new projects in the next year and you cannot base on what you achieved in the last year and that's why we sometimes feel as running in a circle, in a loop, in a wheel, whatever because we always need to get new and new projects and we cannot focus on growing our company until we get the base level of revenue that we need to keep our stuff paid and to keep our company existing. The recurring business model is a little bit different. It's not you give something one time and you get paid some money one time. It's also not you get a huge amount of money where you think wow, I've grown my business, now I can add new people and so on. It's revenue that you get paid each month, a smaller amount usually and you deliver a service continuously and that is something that makes the business more predictable as you will never have the situation that you have lots of money and you think you feel you need to add more stuff to your team and in the next month you don't have the money anymore but the team remains. That's much easier to plan and to predict and also you start the next year, not from zero but you start the next year with the customer base that you already won in the last year and with the revenue that continues in the next year. So you can focus on growing your business in the next year and not only struggling with revenue or new projects that help you to keep the company existing. And this small revenue that you usually get by recurring revenue or subscription model will not mislead you to the wrong assumption that you are so big that you can stuff up your team. I think it's also interesting for our team members not only for our business to care about our own things to build something for ourselves. In a project business, you get a new project and everybody's excited about it. Everybody likes the idea and the thing that you build and your team is very happy to do this new project and then if it is done, you give it away to the customer. Maybe they come back someday but your team has nothing to do anymore with the project and that's some kind of, yeah, disappointing because you like to care about what you build and where you developed your passion over the last two, three, or even 12 months where you develop the project. And it also means that if you have something that you invest in the long term, sorry, you invest in the short term, that's just, that's why I posted this picture here. The same example if you have a baby and if you grow a baby, if you grow a sustainable business and recurring business model, you invest and you will benefit in the long term. And that is why sometimes it's hard to start with it because a big back of cash that you get from a project is some kind of attractive instead of earning small amount of money with a service contract or with a service that you sell and that you get paid for each month. You should avoid to have a revenue chart like that. This will not let you sleep, this will not let you plan. It's hard to predict and it's hard to crow with this kind of business model or of revenue chart. You have the red ones, some bad months where you don't know how to pay your stuff. That's where you have some kind of loss and you need to see how to get business in the next month. So that's the kind of chart we don't want. What we want and what we wish for is a planability, is more something like this chart where every dollar or every euro that you earn is predictable. You know that you earn this euro in the next one or 12 months and you can plan with it. Yeah, that also lets you sleep much better at night and you can grow sustainable. And now we come to the points where we're talking about the sentence, oh we need a product. I heard this many times also here at TripleCon where many triple shops or freelancing people talk about I need a product. The question is why and what does it mean to have a product? We saw that revenue machine some slides ago and that's the understanding of a product that is a one tool that is built by many developers and serves the needs of many clients. That does not mean that everybody of you should now attend this session and after it's finished you should go away and think oh what else can I do then just triple development. That's definitely the wrong thing. You should focus on your core competency that's usually project management, application development, triple development and if you keep your eyes open there are so many things in the world to improve and you can start with your own needs or with the needs of your existing customers to build something that serves many because I'm pretty sure that if one of your customers has a need and you fulfill it or you solve a problem others have it as well and you can try to resell that product. So yeah what is important to say you should not disrespect NDAs because if you have a customer who comes to you with a good idea and you sign an NDA then you leave and quit the relationship with your customer and do it by yourself that's not the way your business should work and that's not good for your relationship and also not good from a little perspective. Yeah reselling is another option. What happens if you develop a project many of you give it away but you can make more business with that project because it needs to be operated, it needs to be supported in triple you need to apply updates to keep it secure you need to maintain the site and also there I mean in times of services there are many services that are connected to your triple site to make it valuable and to make it work correctly for example an e-commerce site you need a payment provider you need maybe a newsletter system that is not built in triple you need of course a hosting platform all these things are business models that already have recurring revenue and if you give your project to those businesses that earn more with the results you developed in the project why shouldn't you earn some money for the recommendation and that's money that's passive money that you get each month for the recommendation and that's one very very easy start for every triple shop to grow some kind of recurring revenue without the need to develop a complete new product which is a high risk yeah strategic maintenance we were at the point four years ago when I realized that yeah we have a transactional business model and in every December I don't know how to grow the same kind of revenue in the next year that's when we decided okay let's use our existing projects and write the guide which projects we take and which we will not accept and in this guide we have written the rule that we only take projects that either result in recurring revenue because we operate the site or we integrate it with another product that we have or we have the chance to make a high profit with that product or project then it's also worth doing it or the customer is a strategic customer because we know that we will make more business with a customer in the future that may end up in recurring and stable revenue yeah and that was the point where we always had a clear base for decisions which projects we take and which not that prevented us from growing with the wrong projects that only produce revenue but no profit only produce revenue but at the end we only have expenses and a loss and then we try to implement it and try to sell support contracts that's a good thing in general because every site needs support every customer needs support or even ongoing development but the question is always how to do that there is a video I really liked it it was sent to me from another session there's a guy that shows how not to sell service contracts I will post my slides and then you can see the video you need to give a value to the customer and the value is not letting the team move away that has the whole knowledge of the project and that's one reason why it is okay to charge the customer a fixed amount per year so that the team remains and is available if there are some issues to fix or some additional development tasks to do for the project just ask the client what he thinks how much he needs to pay to build a new team in your company that has the same knowledge to do the same tasks in the same amount of time compared with just taking the team that remains and that's why he pays you so that the tasks that should be done are done in a shorter period of time and more efficient also if you want to sell support with updates for example I think that's the easiest thing it's obvious that the triple side needs updates and if your clients want to pay you only by the time you do the updates then you cannot guarantee a reaction time a reaction time needs to be paid if there is a critical update or if the site is broken and there needs to be done something immediately all your other guys are in projects why should somebody leave the project to fix a site and he's paid the same amount of money that he can earn in the project from a business perspective there is no sense to make such a decision just to make the customer happy so what you can do is to sell support contracts that guarantee a reaction time and that also guarantee a certain amount of money or a certain amount of development time you get each month we had one customer that didn't want to accept this and he always asked okay can you implement this and that feature yes of course we can okay give me a quote then we made an estimation gave him the quote hmm yeah okay that's expensive but when can you do that okay let me check the schedule then we check the schedule and we told him in two months we can do it oh that's not fast enough we need to make this process faster then we recommended let's do it like this for us the current situation is unplanable because we don't have recurring revenue each month we are always on a transactional base the customer always asks us to deliver the work faster but we can't because all our team is in existing projects and that's a situation that is not very satisfying for both of us and what we did is we had an agreement that on Monday, Wednesday and Friday from 10 to 12 we give the customer two hours where we only care about his project where we work on tickets where we do updates where we give him support or do ongoing development tasks that makes the workflow and the process more predictable and more transparent for our customer and it's planable for us because we know a fixed schedule Monday, Wednesday, Friday every two hour slots we work for this one client and then he knows how he can add his stuff to this time schedule to react on our questions or to test the results that we deliver and that was a complete shift of the project that was almost to be cancelled because of that unsatisfaction from both sides and now we have the best cooperation and a recurring revenue model that makes us plan better from a financial point of view but also in our team from a team planning perspective so that was one good decision that was just a small switch and everybody was happy and the project was much more planable and better to predict another thing is to cooperate with customers but to tell it in advance you should make a good choice with which customers you want to cooperate and with which not I think there are many requests oh, I have a great idea I don't have the money yet but you get a revenue share of 20% okay, you can do that but if you don't understand the business model behind it might happen that you never see at least one euro what I mean with cooperation is that if a customer comes to you he has a problem and he wants you to solve that usually he has to pay a huge amount of money he has to invest quite a lot to in the upfront just to build the product where he wants to earn sorry, something in the near future and what we do here is sometimes if the customer tells us oh, that's way too much money I cannot invest that amount of money it's to ask him to cooperate with us and how does that look like we try to understand the problem in detail and the business behind it and then we try to cooperate in a way where we either are participating in this business that we build and all the revenue and the profit is shared with us by a percentage of 10, 15 or even 20% or we just have an agreement to share the monthly revenue but we are not participating on that project and that's a good deal because you don't need to lose your your core competency you still are the part in that business that does the development work and the technical things and on the other side you have a customer that has good knowledge in his industry and he knows problems not only of his company but also of other companies and that helps you to build a product together that scales and this one customer may have the chance to earn money or to participate in the revenue that is produced by his competitors that's one thing that might look a little bit strange and it needs a good base for a long-term partnership but it's definitely worth considering because yes, some clients are looking for that but they don't have an idea how that could work so with corporations we made very good experience if you choose your customers right and that's how a revenue share model could look like if you build a product or yeah in the project this product has a certain value usually the value is measured by the time that we need to build the product but there is also another way to sell a project or a product that's called value-based selling you understand what the customer really needs and what impact this solution has to your clients and to his business that means how much money will he save how much additional revenue will he have and that's a much better base for argumenting your price okay if you build a product that has no value for the customer then you should better consider not to do this at all because your customer will not earn money with that he will not be happy with that it's just an investment and he has nothing and you can be sure that you will not earn with that product that you build in the long term because it has no value and if we see the value of the product that is calculated by the hours we spend multiply it with the revenue per hour that we have this first line is the limited profit that you can grow in one project that's the nature of a transactional business model and the maximum loss that you can have with a project is that you have to pay your team members but you don't get paid by the customer that can help you to consider if yeah the risk is pretty high that expenses are too high if you don't get paid for your time but you have the chance to participate in the long term with the revenue and the profit that a valuable product makes that only makes sense if you really understand the business of your customer and that makes sense if you believe that it can grow revenue and that it makes profit but then you have the chance to earn money without spending your time without working without adding or searching additional projects to your company another thing that is very common in the triple world is to maintain a distribution but again you should really understand the business behind that and you could take the chance to serve a specific niche for customers that have a specific problem that you solve with the distribution just building a distribution because it's nice to do okay you can do this for fun but if there is no business model behind that or if there is no target audience that has a real need for the things you build it has no value just to be fun for you to develop it there are many examples you can go to that link project distributions you see quite a lot and they are all serving different niches from e-commerce up to collaboration to business process management or even being a base distribution for other content sites that's what Panopoli does and it's always a good chance to serve a niche where you are the expert and where you are seen as an expert that helps you as a maintenance service to grow additional revenue each month and you could also sell your distribution as a service with a subscription model that's a very easy thing and people they don't need to take the distribution install it, struggle with patches struggle with installation problems just host it for them and then they can use it and you have payment or revenue each month but what I would not recommend is just publish something in a big bang I mean build something over years and then try to deliver it to somebody and then you realize that nobody needs that that's just throwing money out of the window you should better first test your idea and that's what we do if we have new corporations with customers or new ideas for products we test them first, we don't implement them and how can you test it? You can build a landing page but you should not do that with Chupol it's so much work for a thing that you can achieve with a static template just write down your idea, write down the benefit and whatever do some advertisement at Google AdWords as a traffic source to the landing page and see if people subscribe and if you don't have at least 100 subscribers to the landing page you know that nobody's interested in your product and you don't need to spend the time and money to build it but if you have a landing page where 100 or even more people subscribe to you can be sure that with the thing that you communicate and with the value that you give to your clients this product might work and the risk is much smaller than building first in the upfront and investing in the upfront then trying to do the marketing and fail okay then the product is without any value so the advice is trying to develop and to iterate in small steps and test, improve, test, improve and if you fail at a certain point see it as a lesson to learn and improve again I mean that's the base of agile development in general that's nothing new yeah it should not look like this one big thing just throw it out and see if somebody needs it and if nobody needs it it will fall down, it will crash and that's it okay better try to fly in small steps just as it is visible here on that image and if you did that and if you used your existing project as a pool for innovative ideas for seeing some problems on your customer base that others have as well where you can develop one product that serves many it should look like this and if you only use manual services to do something if you see it works and there's a demand on the market that many people have then you can automate it but don't automate in advance that's the same as if you build a product in advance and nobody needs it so automation comes later if you see that somebody really something really works we also have some clients that want to build an e-commerce site and then they need a payment system integrated they need that's for sure but they need invoice creation they need stunning they need a CRM they need everything in the beginning even if they don't know if the business really works and then they ask oh why is that so expensive I even don't know if my business works and then you tell them okay strip everything away you can do this everything manually you can write your invoices manually you can also request your money manually you can manage your contacts manually you can do everything manually that's not the most efficient thing but from an investment perspective it is very efficient because if you don't need it you don't need to build it and if the first 10 customers ask you why does it take so much time if I get my invoice why does it take so much time until I get support whatever then you can consider to make it better because you see there is a real need for that and that helps you to improve the business continuously without the need to invest in the upfront a huge amount of money ah yeah one thing I forgot to mention while talking to many of you guys here there are many shops that have developed our own solutions for example for hosting for deployment for ticketing for project management these are all good things that are worth sharing and I think it's not so hard to take the solutions you build and provide them as a service to others and if you don't want to refactor your product and sell it as a service because that's some kind of refactoring required you can build a landing page and check if somebody needs it and if somebody needs then you can build the product and earn monthly recurring revenue with that so that's some kind of innovation where you can start by yourself and see what you and your triple shop self need and then you can sell it to others because you can show you know your industry I mean a triple shop best and you can easily ask others if they have the same need and some are really happy and welcome you if you deliver a solution that make their business better yeah and then I just want to share very short some examples that work for us there are quite a lot that didn't work but they didn't work and we realized that in an early stage where we're just testing with landing pages if the model works or if the business works and we didn't develop it in up front and then fail with the whole product one thing is the drop guard that automates the triple updates and that's how we started it exactly in a way where we first built something for our own needs to sell our support contracts more efficient we did that it was just a yeah collection of scripts that helped us to deliver updates in time and to protect us from triple get on and to fulfill the contracts that we have from or with our clients and then we decided when there's triple get on maybe there's a need for others so we built a landing page and tried to subscribe to let other people subscribe to that landing page and that worked and that was assigned for us to build a product based on that scripts that we already have and try to sell it to others and to help others to sell their support contracts in the same way with automation as we do yeah Airpal is a distribution that we maintain and there are two other things that we do with our customers in cooperation and that was exactly the template where a customer came to us and told us oh bright guide for example we have a need we need to make standard consulting processes online can you build that yes sure we can build that it's 20 up to 50,000 euro do you want it whoa that's quite a lot for only a few people that use this consultant service and then I was thinking maybe this customer has lots of contacts in his industry and maybe there are other businesses that need such a solution for standard consulting processes as well and see there there have been some so we decided we build a prototype and we show it to the customer and ask him if this what you need and then he said yes but there is missing this feature and that feature and this feature and that was assigned for me we are on the right way it's not a sign that we build the wrong product we have a correct base and now we can go into conversation with the customer and see how we can improve it continuously and he helped us to sell it to other clients because I asked him to find at least 10 other clients from his industry that have the same need and they pay all together to let us build this feature that all need that's a cut of 90% of invest for this one customer and for us it's again a product that gives us recurring revenue and serves many clients that's the kind of cooperation that we had with Pride Guide and MyFoam with MyFoam that's a industry product where you can design foam inlays that's a very industry specific thing if you want to build a package around your smartphone for example to ship it and it should have a good fit that's a thing where you can design it online and that was built for one specific company and then they decided okay we need so many features to make it work for our clients and that would be so expensive and then we sat together and thought okay how can we develop that product to make it a complete product with all features you need and again it was the same template check in your industry if there are other clients that have a demand or a need for the same features find 10 of them and we share it 10 times so your invest will be much smaller and then we did that and now it's one of the industry 4.0 projects that we have in Germany that serves already 80 clients with that solution and none of these clients has to pay a huge amount of money to use it and we have recurring revenue each month where we have predictable revenue we don't depend so much on Triple 8 nevertheless I really wanted to come and to be released for sure yeah and it makes me sleep much better at night yeah what I want you to take away from this session and I hope that I could let some of you at least think about such processes and about such templates you should not leave your core competency and you use what you already have to improve your business don't throw everything away and try to build something new that's the highest risk that you can get use what exists and improve that continuously and see who else needs the solution that you have protect your values if you have a new project check what you can do with the project after it has been completed try to resell some services use it to multiply and sell it to other clients of course you need to you need the agreement of your client to resell that product but you can give him a price decrease if he allows you to do so by 10, 20 or whatever percent and you should use your projects as a pool of innovation because you always see new demands for something you see a new need that's why clients ask you to do something and to contract you and use those problems with open eyes and try to multiply them to sell them or to sell these solutions in form of products to your clients yeah and cooperation I mentioned that before is a good thing open your eyes and try to build something with many people that serves many people and that's the most important template you should take away for today talking about support contracts and how to build support in detail because that's worth for an own session there is another buff just after this session here it's in room 128 it's hosted by Amazelabs and they want to talk about how different triple shops organize their support business and that's one thing where you can start immediately to grow your recurring revenue so it's worth maybe going there also worth mentioning the sprints on Friday we all want to play to come out we all have a need to let triple release so tomorrow there are the sprints on Friday and yeah I hope that some of you will join the sprints and contribute yeah and then I just only have the words thank you for you thank you for joining my first session at TripleCon I hope you can take something valuable away for your business thank you okay just to make it short some questions yeah everybody's in a hurry to go to the next session or to the booth okay if you want to follow up we can meet at our booth 605 or just follow me on Twitter Manuel Pistner is my name then we can continue the conversation thank you very much