 It's the Sunday special, Tannis, Marin and Annemarie on DS106 radio. So I am here with three of, to my mind, three of the most interesting, dynamic and charming leaders in educational technology. I'm here with Marin and Tannis and Annemarie, and since this isn't really a formal session, I'm not going to do a whole lot more intro than that. But, and in fact, given that we're talking about a DS106 radio show, which is more than ably hosted by our three guests, I may just recede from the conversation entirely if I do this right. But maybe I'll just kind of jump right in and we're not going to, unless you really want to, I'm not going to ask you to introduce yourselves or anything like that. I'm hoping people know who you are and all of that. And I'm going to be tying together all the little pieces back here on my big board. I'm just wondering maybe to start things off, because we're talking about the DS106 radio show that the three of you have been doing now for a year, just had your anniversary show. I'm wondering if you would maybe try to let people know for the few people out there who haven't experienced DS106 radio, how would you describe it to someone who doesn't know what it is? Well, for our usual 11 listeners, not every single person at OER by domains where we hopefully expect more than 11 people is going to be familiar with the show. So maybe I'll just start and Annemarie and Tannis will jump in. It's an interesting form of very informal open practice where the three of us have been heading to the airwaves on the DS106 radio every Sunday or most Sundays for the last year. It started as a kind of emergency ed tech broadcast lockdown project. Annemarie Tannis, do you want to jump in and maybe start with a little more? I think for me it started when we got cheated out of OER 20. That was the catalyst for it. We all three were supposed to meet up for OER 20. We started with that picture of us all together at OER 19. I think we were doing a virtually connecting session together there. Sorry, not OER 19 etog, which was in 2019. And we were doing a virtually connecting session there and we had plans to meet up at OER 20 in London. Tannis and I also had plans that involved shoes, that involved cocktails, that involved art galleries, and all of that got ripped away from us. But we still brought the t-shirts for you guys. It was a way to have some time together when we realised we weren't going to have time together and who wants another Zoom call or Skype call or Teams call or whatever goddamn platform we're using these days. All of them, all the time. Yeah, I mean not a whole lot more to add other than like for me it's like it's kind of just it emerges, right? Like it starts with something and it's evolved into a whole lot of different things. So I think it's a good example of again the open practice thing, but also just seeing where it goes to I guess play with it. Do you remember your first show that you did together? Like kind of how it came together? Definitely remember our first show and one of the things we've used to curate our radio shows has been collaborative playlists on Spotify. And we were just reviewing our first shows playlist and all the other playlists that we've made. And we had a couple of shows where we had special guests. So Clinton Alon was one of our special guests and Hero was one of our special guests. We had a super amazing show that I remember where we took requests by the DS106 radio hashtag with a lot of audience participation. And well our very own Brian Lamb and his colleague John joined us for a Christmas special as well as a lot of wonderful tribute in brackets only shows for most of the Sundays that we broadcasted. So it's been very much a community production just like OER by Domains. Yeah and we kind of jumped into a community that already existed. We were kind of aware of that. Maybe a little nervous about it when we first started. I've talked a lot about how nervous I was about trying this online broadcasting thing because I do the production side of it and we might talk about that a little bit later. But yeah I was nervous not just about making Marin and Tannis look foolish but also about to some extent elbowing our way into a space that was well established and wasn't necessarily ours. Not that it was ever unwelcoming at all. The whole point of DS106 is that it's completely free for them and anybody who wants to play can with a little bit of kind of community participation guidelines. And actually I do remember our first show, I was looking at the playlist today, has Al Wilson's The Snake on it because Scott Lowe snaked the feed for our first show. A long time broadcast around DS106. Yeah they grabbed the feed as we were going on for the very first time. You kind of came aboard when DS106 had kind of had a renaissance. Like it had its kind of first big wave in I think about 10 years ago, a little less than 10 years ago. And then obviously I think with the pandemic it kind of had this new prominence. You've often quite explicitly all talked about the role that this show has kind of played as a, I don't know how would you describe it, an outlet, a connection point, I don't know how do you think of it because you were talking about this morning. Well I think it's both of that for me. It definitely wasn't outlet. It was something new to do during what would become pandemic boredom, but also to play with a different format and explore that a little bit. But also like the community, I think seeing people pop in on Twitter while we're doing the show is, it's unreasonably exciting. I don't know if people know how much we appreciate that. And certainly I think we were buoyed quite a bit by having a lot of people do that in our early shows, which was really, again as Henry said too, an extension of being together at the OER conference. But a lot of the same people were popping in and listening to us. And I think it's sort of the next best thing, right? So that was pretty great. I think it was also a time when, you know, other tech community folk were broadcasting from lockdown all across the world really. And we were joining a lineup on DS106 radio, which wasn't a formal one, but certainly, you know, many of us started our days with Jim Groom and his wife sharing recipes of home baking and the initial wave of sourdough craziness hit us all. And it was amazing to hear people on the airwaves that, you know, we had no way of connecting with. And two of us at least had just moved to a new place in the world, which we didn't know anybody in. So I think Anne-Marie and I were kind of sitting surrounded by moving boxes and trying to not just figure out how to cope with lockdown, but also how to do that in a completely new place and new cities that we didn't know. So the radio gave us a chance to connect and also to not be on video calls that we had to deal with day to day at work. Yeah. And it brought it brought different listeners as well. I think we brought quite by accident brought an audience with us as well. And some of it again goes back to that group of people that we would have connected with maybe around we are 20, but some of that, some of it is, you know, people in that wider Fem Ed Tech community, because we kind of branded it a little bit that way, not fully intentionally, but, you know, using that photograph of the three of us with two Fem Ed Tech t-shirts on it can help, but brand it in a certain way. And so, yeah, there's, I guess we brought a different audience as well. And it's been lovely to see people from across the world sometimes. You know, join in and and do your point to Annus about people giving us feedback on the hashtag and how exciting that is. And to have those conversations while we're broadcasting. Yeah, it is. It's what we do it for. It's what I do it for. It's a lot of fun. I enjoy the chats that we have, but to know that to know that other people are listening is good. Like, we don't perform for an audience, I don't think, but we like the feedback. It occurs to me listening to you that the metaphor of radio might almost be a bit deceptive, because it seems to be a much more participatory interactive medium than we typically think of radio, where it's, you know, one source and then a group of kind of relatively anonymous listeners that aren't connected to one another. And yeah, you're absolutely correct. It's like every listener is almost as important or every bit as important as the people that are theoretically on the air. It's not just participatory because anyone can get on. I've had the, as you alluded to, I've had the pleasure of being part of your process. And I actually think it's one of the coolest things about your show and actually having worked with you once or twice as you put a show together and then been on the air and the experience of being what's going on when you're broadcasting. Do you think you can try to capture a bit of a vibe like just what's a typical week on the Sunday special about how this show comes together and then what actually happens when you're doing the show? Yeah. Semi-controlled mayhem. I mean, it's part of what's important about this. And I think we decided this fairly early on is that it shouldn't be a chore for us. It has to be fun. We're all of us doing work day in, day out throughout the week, which taxes us heavily, has a lot of responsibility to it. So we have a responsibility to each other, but we also want this to be fun and don't want this to be a lot of work and a lot of production. So we started having guests, for example, and we've had fewer guests than we maybe originally thought we would because we realized that there's a level of effort and preparation that goes into having a guest and we didn't feel we could necessarily sustain that all the time. So our typical week is normally, once we agree we're going to do a show, throw up a collaborative playlist on Spotify, maybe throw music into it over the course of a week. We don't put it in any playlist order. We don't pre-decide a playlist. We do have a little WhatsApp group that we use behind the scenes just to get ourselves ready to go in there. And we choose our opening track. Sometimes we choose two, especially if somebody's running late to get on air. And after that, we wing it. We just play what we fancy and we work it out as we go on air. And I think in the times that you've joined us, Brian, that might have been a little stressful for you. Ladies? Yeah, I think, well, I think it's evolved too. I think in the beginning, certainly I was showing up more prepared and that, you know, and as time went on, it's, I mean, I'm always doing something in the background. I mean, at one point there's a show where I'm insulating my shed and, you know, muting myself as I click the staple gun. You know, I, this morning I made breakfast and I don't even think I muted. So I think like, yeah, it's sort of, for me, it's become something that I do extremely casually alongside other things, which is really nice because I think that's like, again, it's, there's no pressure. Well, I guess I'm planning like dinner surrounded and cooking times. So like sometimes our shows, which are meant to be an hour long, which are generally 90 minutes, but sometimes go on for longer than that. I've had to kind of rush off because suddenly like dinner was burning in the oven. And I feel it's a really great example of collaboration in practice. And we obviously all have some skills we bring to the table that make that possible. But the person who holds it all together technically is Annemarie, really, who's doing all the producing and all the actual streaming to air. And it's true that everybody can get on the S106 radio, but having failed to get on it, despite some efforts on my part for a whole year, that's not to be underestimated. So Annemarie has definitely been keeping us, keeping us broadcasting. And that's really appreciated. Well, you're welcome. And it's, it's been, for me, it's been fun to learn how to use some of the technologies as well. I started, I've always used audio hijack. There were some previous open source tools, which were well documented on some of the older DS106 blog posts from Alan and Jim and David Kernahan and others. But for whatever reason, I found one key one just did not work on my edition of the Mac operating system. So I bought audio hijack, which is not expensive. We're supporting small independent software companies. And that's been a dream. And actually, those people who've come on after us, people like Lauren Haywood, for example, she, she's picked up and used audio hijack as well. I think Jim switched over to using it. Brian switched over to using it. I think there's a picture up on screen. I mean, it is like drag and drop move the pictures about simple. There's so little technical knowledge required. It's become, it's made it quite accessible for me. But then learning how to tweak the show. So when we first started, I was playing music and you couldn't hear it. And I was always having to cue you back in. And I couldn't talk to you before the mics came up. So the mic would come back up and then I would have to speak to bring you back in, which meant I was always speaking first. And I know I do that a bit still. But we, I think we've changed over the years. I've tweaked the broadcasting setup so that we can all hear the music and we can chat behind the scenes when the music is playing. And for me, anyway, that's felt more comfortable and a little bit more equal and a little bit more participatory. And we don't use video. We actually do an audio Skype chat. Like we're not, again, this is completely video free from A to Z. Just this as well, because I'm normally in my pajamas on a Sunday morning. And a certain someone made us some bumpers as a Christmas present, which meant that our production values increased fantastically. Google Yike cookies. Fancy slippers. Crazy campers and pub dates. It's the Sunday special. He has well six radio. Makes me laugh every time. And we do. I think Ann Marie, I think I just want to take a moment to step back and if it's okay to interject to celebrate Ann Marie's production, because actually it's extended beyond the Sunday special because she wrote those great blog posts and that's become the unwrap for a number of the newer broadcasters on DS1 to 6 radio. We typically send that to them, although her one setup, I still struggle to use it, but it's incredibly helpful. I'll never forget actually because I'll just give a quick shout out to my friend, John Fulton, who he had the idea. He wasn't so inspired by your show that a couple of weeks into it, he wrote, could we just even put together a playlist of some of our favorite women artists and give it to the Sunday special for them to ignore or use as they see fit, just as a salute. And then I was the person that said, well, why don't we just play the songs ourselves and do the shout out and compliment Sean. You were also welcoming and awesome about that and I want to thank you. But it was so funny because we did about 10 of these shows and then we did our joint show with Ann Marie's set up with the chat behind. And of course what we what we learned was it was actually the most fun that happens is actually not making it to the air. It was all the chit chat that was happening during the songs. And I think John was quite disappointed in me. Oh, this show could be fun. We could be enjoying ourselves when we're not on there. But I just want to give that shout out. And hopefully somewhere in the show nuts, we'll share a link to Ann Marie's post where she shares her setup on audio hijack because it is brilliant. And I want to thank you for that. But I do I do love what it gives us in terms of the back channel conversation. Again, back to the the original point. This is about making a way to connect and spend time with each other when we can't do that face to face or or any of the other kind of events or gatherings that we that might be possible. So how do we how do we ensure that spirit is there and it doesn't become another tour, another piece of the day job? I think it's been fantastic how little the day job has really surfaced in our shows over the last year because it's definitely not been a boring year in ed tech. And I think sometimes we've talked a bit more political, you know, we had like outbursts of anger around proctoring. We've certainly talked about International Women's Day and the sort of impact of the pandemic on different communities. But for me, it's been a really great space to have, you know, being like a senior in my day job doesn't give me a lot of freedom to talk about things other than work. So for me, it's been fantastic that we've talked like, you know, running and baking and she sheds and working from home and all sorts of differences between the UK and Canada in terms of lockdown. That's been a real privilege for me. And I'm really glad that hasn't turned into, you know, at tech radio. Yeah, and I want to just say to like, I love that Brian and John created this show that preceded our show originally, and then follows our show now, since we swapped time slots. And like, that's really, that's been really special to have that as well, because a, I just love the music that you guys play. But also, I think it's just this whole idea of extending, building on each other and extending the community a little bit more. It's just really nice. Oh, thanks for saying that. We love doing the show. And it's actually really enhanced the way I listen to music. As Ann Marie, who's in my bubble, knows, I now make a real effort to like keep my ears open, particularly for female, for women artists every week. And I've discovered people, and that's just the nice thing, you know, just even to know, you're going to play for a handful of people. It's not because of the listenership. There's not that many people. It's pretty much the three of you and maybe three other people. But yeah, it's, that's the cool thing about it. It's more, it's very much like blogging or something in that way. It's really not about the audience. It's about the act of it and the interaction with the various people. I don't certainly want to move things to some sort of arbitrary conclusion, but we've been chatting for about 22 minutes. So I just maybe want to ask any of you, I mean, for either moments, memories, you know, knowing that we were going to do this, were there memories that were popping into your heads that you were hoping to share, like where there's shows you particularly enjoyed or just weird moments or anything like that that you'd like to share? Wow, I think there was so many. I remember playing at Loud Show for me. Yep. I'm remembering our conversation earlier about Sue Buckingham and Rick Savage from Death Leopard. The kind of confessions that came pouring out on Twitter during that show. Yeah, that was a highlight for me. And then she posted this photo of an aged version of her and Rick Savage. And she did, didn't she? I'm not remembering that one. I think she went to school with him. So she's known him for years. He's still friends. Yeah, it was a lovely picture with her and her husband and him, I think. I've been loving the pop dates, particularly those of our listeners who've been contributing either kitten updates or cat updates or pop dates on Twitter as well. It's been great to meet everybody's pets over the last year. I think I followed the evolution of various pets and that's been a real highlight for me. And also, obviously, shoes and tights. Yeah, there's definitely nothing. It's nothing deep, right? It's just it's really, but I mean, it's kind of those little things that I mean, build community to, I think. It's just knowing people differently than how they show up at a conference or, you know, how they show up in these professional kinds of places where most of us know each other. So I don't know. It's nice to have that space to do that. Even though during the pandemic, I mean, we're pretty limited as to what we can talk about. Like it's cooking and walks and pumps and really more interesting than that in person when we don't have a pandemic. We do things. But sharing music, I mean, that's something we can still do no matter what's going on in the world. And just like Brian said earlier, I've discovered so much more through our collaborative playlists. We've got quite different tastes. We've got a lot of overlap in our tastes and there is a Venn diagram of the cure, the pixies, the kings, Jesus and Mary chain and a few others, but there's a lot of differences as well. And so that's given us something fresh each week or each time we're on air to to share with each other when sometimes there is nothing else going on. We have just got up sat in front of a computer for eight, nine, 10 hours a day and done that five days in the week. And then I don't know gone outside and tried to exercise so we don't have a deep vein thrombosis or something. The cure, the pixies, a story about mom showing trousers for the kings DS 106 radio to the wing of monkey who's doing our production is even repeating bumpers, but he's got other ones. That's the thing. Anyway, we're not paying them. I don't think I'm not paying them. The I did want to say like I have such fond memories like it's it's been a tough year. Everyone says that, you know, you know, it was 2020, first year ever, all that stuff. And I don't mean to diminish that. It's been a tough year. But I have honestly, I think maybe when I think back, some of my most powerful memories will be getting up doing a radio show with John and then fixing, and I did it in honor of you, you know, an orange juice and with something in it and listening to your show while I sit outside in the sun and listen to your music. And and though there's been a bit of joking about, you know, the songs that maybe are a bit of touchstones or groups that are touchstones, you also always surprise us. You always play songs that we don't expect. And and getting to do the show with you and seeing how that process emerges is so cool. I just think we have to do either a crazy kitty update or a pup date from everyone. How how are the animals today before we sign off? Well, I think I'm going to jump right in there because I think I've got the newest animal in my life. So I think when we started the show, I was heartbroken because I had to leave my cat behind when I moved house last March. So now I am newly sleep deprived with a new puppy that's arrived in my life a couple of weeks ago. And following Tannis' footsteps in trying to bring up a hugely energetic little dog. So here is to far more running and listening to Diaz 106 and their special playlists for me. Yeah, I well, people know that I got a puppy during COVID as well, a COVID puppy, who is now almost a year old, you know, not quite nine months. But yeah, very energetic. I got to watch him. We took him to the beach yesterday where there's lots of rabbits and I got to watch the full on pointer dog chasing rabbits in the dark. So that was kind of fun. So yeah. Yeah, and I started off while I left my cat behind in Scotland. Tiggie, big fat tabby thing. Lived in Edmonton for 10 months in an apartment where no cats, no animals, no pets allowed. And when I moved to British Columbia, I think within five minutes of arriving, was in the local BC SPCA, saying show me your cats with special needs because they're the ones I want. So I have two one and a half year old great abys, Ozzie and Audrey. And Ozzie has a urinary problem and Audrey is very badly socialized. And right now they are in the garage because they use that like a jungle gym and put them in there to play. So they don't come in to disrupt the broadcast to get locked out of my office now. Fantastic. So I said to all of you before this, I wasn't quite sure why I'm here because the three of you are more than capable of chatting for yourselves, especially on the radio. You show it every week. But maybe why I'm here is because maybe I'm the proxy for all the people who I'm not even going to try to name them because I know I'll forget somebody and then I'll feel terrible for months. But all the people who chime in on the hashtag when you're playing songs and chatting and engaging with you. It's a really fun community and it's a fun group. And I'm really thrilled to be one of those people. And I'm thrilled to be one of the fans of the Sunday special. And I hope we're emerging from this pandemic. But I also just allow me to say on behalf of all those people that are joining your show that I hope you'll find a way to keep doing this at least some of the time. But I just want to thank you all for the brilliant radio and the great Sundays. And thanks for this. I want to thank Tannis and Marin for being willing to give it a try when I suggested the crazy idea. And I want to thank them for the one radio show when I was too sad to speak. And I broadcast and didn't say anything. Well, I think on that note, I hope that this has been a bit of hope for other people as it's been for me and for us. And I'm delighted that we can talk about it now in terms of open practice and in terms of community building. But for me, it's been very much about friendship. And I can't wait to enjoy this amazing online conference and then move on to amazing face-to-face events again when I get to hug all of you again. Yeah, I'm just grateful we got to do this. And you know, grateful to all the people who tune in consistently too. We know who our fans are, so that's really nice. And yeah, and honestly, I guess I'll just leave by saying, I'm really glad this hasn't turned into we have to attach learning outcomes to this idea, right? It's sort of, we don't need to ed-tecify everything and turn everything into an online course. So I think it's a nice reminder that education needs spaces that aren't necessarily constructed in around courses and outcomes.