 So David Remnick of the New Yorker sat down for a relatively lengthy interview with representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and This was really fascinating There were a lot of moments in this interview that I found very very interesting and we're gonna Primarily be focusing on what she said with respect to American democracy and how it's in danger because she is Characterizing this in a way that I've seen few lawmakers characterize it in like she actually outlines How dire the situation is currently when it comes to American democracy and how it's hanging on by a thread and It might not be here much longer like we're talking in our lifetimes in the near future We might see the total collapse of democracy and I think that you know, we have to phrase it like that In no uncertain terms we have to make it very clear to people Wake up democracy is dying I don't even think that most liberals and leftists even have come to terms with the reality of democracy in the United States Being completely eradicated in this country. I mean, it's gonna be a slower burn, right? It's not just gonna collapse all at once, but we're treading into very dangerous and treacherous territory and what we need are for people to wake up and that's kind of what AOC is Seemingly trying to do here in this interview, but there are other moments that that are worth reading as well Which is well linked to it down below. She criticizes Joe Biden. She calls Congress a shit show She discusses issues with the Democratic Party's leadership But I mean she very clearly pulls punches when it comes to Nancy Pelosi and David Remnick actually pointed that out It was pretty interesting She also addressed the prospect of her leaving Congress and that was really interesting to hear You know what she had to say about what she might be doing in the future really interesting But overall we're gonna focus on her comments about democracy because this is very important So she was asked you've used the phrase if we have a democracy 10 years from now Do you think we won't and she responds by saying I think there's a very real risk that we will not What we risk is having a government that perhaps postures as a democracy and may try to pretend that it is but isn't David asks what's going to bring us to that point you hear talk now about our being on the brink of a civil war That's the latest phrase in a series of books that have come out What will happen to bring us to that degraded point she responds saying well I think it has started but it's not beyond hope we're never beyond hope But we've already seen the opening salvos of this where you have a very targeted specific attack on the right to vote across the United States Particularly in areas where Republican power is threatened by changing electorates and demographics You have white nationalist reactionary politics starting to grow into a critical mass What we have is the continued sophisticated takeover of our Democratic systems in order to turn them into undemocratic systems All in order to overturn results that a party in power may not like David asks the concern is that we will look like what other nation? She says I think we will look like ourselves. I think we will return to Jim Crow. I think that's what we risk He falls up saying what's the scenario for that? She says you have it already happening in Texas where Jim Crow style disenfranchisement laws have already been proposed You had members of the state legislature just a few months ago flee the state in order to prevent such voting laws from being passed in Florida where you had the entire state vote to allow people who were released from prison to be Reenfranchised after they have served their debt to society. That's essentially being replaced with poll taxes and intimidation at the polls You have the complete erasure and attack on our own understanding of history to replace teaching history with institutionalized propaganda from white nationalist perspectives in our schools This is what the scaffolding of Jim Crow was so there are many impulses to compare this to somewhere else There are certainly plenty of comparisons to make with the rise of fascism in post-World War one Germany But you really don't have to look much further than our own history because what we have I think is a uniquely complex path that we have walked and the question that we're really facing is Was the last 50 to 60 years after the Civil Rights Act? Just the mere flirtation that the United States had with the multiracial democracy that we will then decide was Inconvenient for those in power and we will revert to what we had before which by the way wasn't just Jim Crow But also the extraordinary economic oppression as well now what she says is really interesting The way that she frames this is I think important because she's correct here I think that people kind of chalk up concerns over democracy to hyperbole because they visualized these authoritarian regimes like North Korea, you know Or even China perhaps to a lesser extent where you see a censorship with respect to pop culture and criticisms of the government and Sure, that's possible But really what you saying here is important because reverting back to Disenfranchising of you know black and brown people the Jim Crow era that really is the more likely scenario Sure, I think we will see in the event. We continue down this path You know deterioration of civil rights and civil liberties So we could see more censorship of you know criticism if we have this authoritarian Demagogue like Donald Trump who very clearly didn't like that the media was criticizing him and talked about opening up libel laws You know, we could see a situation where censorship is more rampant in the United States where criticizing the government actually comes at a cost But I think that the most likely scenario in the event We do see further destruction of our democracy and it doesn't get changed or addressed by Democrats Is this Jim Crow era kind of returning? It's not going to be identical to the Jim Crow of the past But it's going to be very similar and the playbook that was used then will be used now It's just a modern version of Jim Crow, which is horrifying to think about but again Let me link you to an article down below about what's happening in Texas after they passed their Jim Crow 2.0 law Where voters are already being disenfranchised and voting is becoming increasingly difficult in these GOP controlled states So it's really important now She addresses Republicans and whether or not they share the same concern for democracy and I think that to a large extent They do but their concern for democracy is a little bit different But let me tell you what she says first. She was asked Do you think many Republicans share your concern about the fate of democracy? Do you have those kinds of conversations? She says it's a complex question because there's so many different kinds of Republicans But I'm reluctant to get into the naval gazing of it because at the end of the day they all make the same decisions You might be able to appeal to the good natures or even a sense of charity of a handful But ultimately we have what we have at the end of the day, you know Who cares if they're true believers or if they're just complicit They're still voting to overturn the results of our election Remnick asks We're constantly told if you could only hear what's being said in the cloak rooms A lot of Republicans find Donald Trump repulsive But know that they're going to lose their seats if they say so is being in Congress such a great job that you will trade Your principles and soul for that job AOC responds by saying what I think some Republicans struggle with the very few that are in that position is a concern That they will be replaced by someone even worse, you know, okay externally. I might look like a good soldier I might look like I'm falling in line But if I lose my primary and I get replaced with 10 more Marjorie Taylor Greene's will be in an even worse situation That's perhaps where they may be coming from and to a certain extent you do have these critical moments You have January 6th And if Mike Pence had made a different split-second decision that day and done what President Trump was asking him We would be in a very different place right now. So I actually Disagree with what she's saying here. I think that she's giving Republicans too much credit She's referring specifically to these Republicans who will publicly pay fealty to Trump but privately try to combat his influence within the party I mean, she points out that that is indeed a distinction without a difference, but I don't think that they care I don't think that what's keeping them there is this idea that they'll be replaced by more Marjorie greens I don't think that they give a shit So I think that they like being in this advantageous position to where they get Insider insight into what's gonna be happening which helps them with regard to you know Trading stocks and what have you on top of that, you know, they like the influence that they have being in power Setting themselves up for a future career as lobbyist or leader of an industry that they're regulating currently I mean, they don't care. They don't care about anything, right? They know that climate change is real But yet they watch as we destroy our planet entirely and they let the fossil fuel contributions roll in They know that vaccines are safe and effective But yet they pretend as if vaccines are bad because that's what the base wants. So there's no limits There's nothing, you know, that is going to make them wake up and say, okay, enough is enough Because if that were the case, they would have already done it. So I think she's way too kind to them You know, sure, there's a difference between the Marjorie greens of the world and the Adam Kinzinger's of the world but I mean it's Two different buttcheeks on the same ass It's it's the same it's the same thing. It doesn't matter at the end of the day. They're both Against democracy. They both, you know, govern in a way and I use the word govern charitably that it's detrimental to the health and long-term survival of our democracy it's just that one is Accelerating the decline of democracy or as the others are aren't doing it as fast but still doing it and when it comes to the GOP overall like with respect to their base and whether or not they're concerned with democracy I think that there's this contradiction that they're currently fighting because on one hand you have GOP voters Who are concerned with democracy because they were told that the 2020 election has been stolen So in their heart of hearts because they're deluded they think that oh Democracy was subverted. So I care about democracy. That's why I'm siding with Donald Trump That's why I'm fighting Democrats But on the other hand they support Trump so deeply and believe Communism or socialism is such a huge threat that an authoritarian dictator like Donald Trump Maybe, you know, if he's perpetually in power with unlimited legal authority Perhaps that's the only way to stop this communist threat I mean there are people with this mentality and they vocalize this at rallies when interviewers, you know talk to them So perhaps they view extra democratic methods as a way of ultimately saving democracy long-term I'm not sure either way GOP and their base is Absolutely one of the main drivers of democratic decline in the United States now to be clear That's one thing that I wish that AOC would have been more explicit about saying but still what she's saying here And laying this out is important But you know another thing that's important to note is that Democrats? Yes, they are also culpable here They are indirectly responsible for the decline of democracy because they're not fighting them or Republicans enough rather and on top of that You know, they're not doing things to address what makes people so desperate, you know That desperation makes them more susceptible to radicalization makes them more likely to fall for a demagogue like Donald Trump So yes, Democrats are complicit But what somebody in DC needs to say is that the Republican Party is a threat to democracy Full stop and they're not just the threat to American democracy. They are a threat to the planet Because as complicit as Democrats may be as little as Democratic Party officials care about the climate change and democracy It's still Republicans who are demonstrably Accelerating the demise of democracy and life on earth period So, you know, it needs to be laid out like that in no uncertain terms and people need to understand What we could be facing in the next five to ten years a full decline Of democracy. It's not like it's impossible. I think that people by and large Still trust American institutions enough and believe that they'll protect us from an authoritarian strongman like Donald Trump or Ron DeSantis But it's time to wake up. I had that belief too but the institutions are failing and When institutions that protect democracy fail Democracy fails. They're kind of, you know, the stopgap between Democracy and authoritarianism. So I'm glad that she's laying it out, you know, in this way because I don't think people really understand How dire the situation is so to have more lawmakers put it pretty bluntly that yeah, democracy could be gone in like 10 years I think that's important and the way that she explained it is really really necessary because I think that people just think What you think you're gonna we're gonna be like North Korea When no, nobody's positing that we're gonna turn into a you know, a totalitarian regime What we're likely witnessing is the prospect of illiberal democracy where we're a fake democracy essentially where we have You know the the facade of democracy and we have some civil liberties and some civil rights But by and large we don't really have much sway over Our government and we don't already but like much worse than than currently so yeah really Bleak shit, but it needs to be said people need to be given this hard truth