 Hello and good afternoon everybody. I hope you're well and I hope you've had a wonderful day so far and Thank you so much for joining us for this afternoon's session on cracking the conversation code where we will talk about how to have those uncomfortable conversations in the Workspace and we really want to be interactive. So pop questions in the chat and Really ask questions share ideas thoughts and everything really want you to feel like you can be involved in this session with us today And so my name is Gabby I am co-founder of diversity ally and we help industries become more diverse and inclusive in their people culture and image And we do this in a number of ways through educational workshops like this and through consultancy through organizational assessments and through events such as our virtual roundtables networking breakfast and diversity events award And I'll let my co-founder a chance to introduce herself Good afternoon. Good morning or good evening depending on where and when you watch this We're really pleased to be here. My name is Ashanti. I am the other half of diversity ally And uh, we will be taking you through cracking the conversation code in this session Okay, so Gabby. Yeah, brilliant. Um next slide please slide three Oh, yes, I'm doing the slide That's all right Um, so a little question for you here. Um, do you enjoy a good conversation? And what makes a good conversation? And if you could share some thoughts or ideas in the chat, that would be fantastic And really Gabby our thought process we we're always having chats, right? The majority of our work is conversation led Yeah, essentially And we get that these conversations might be uncomfortable at times about diversity and inclusion but ultimately There are things that make us enjoy a conversation or remember it hopefully for positive reasons Uh, you know, what kind of makes a good conversation for you? Or are there things that you know for you make a conversation? Maybe unpleasant or uncomfortable for example Do tell us in the chat function I think for me I'll I'll kick off from what makes a good conversation With anyone whether it's with friends Um when it's with colleagues whether it's with family. I think it's when you feel like You go a little bit deeper Yeah, and you're talking on a level and there's real honesty coming out and you're getting deeper into something And the deeper you get into a conversation the more honest you are The more connections I feel that I make Yes From my perspective what makes a good conversation? Yeah, you know what it's interesting that you say that actually because That's a really good point. It is about feeling I guess like you've understood somebody a bit more And you also feel understood when you come away from the conversation as well I think that's really quite a good point actually So yeah, my one was the set it was similar where I feel understood essentially Um, and a good conversation is when we seek to understand each other So what are we going to be talking about then this afternoon gabby over to you? Okay, so um Today's session we're going to be looking at how to approach difficult conversations with colleagues How to overcome internal resistance to receiving feedback And how to use conversations to get better understanding of our colleagues lived experiences Yeah, absolutely. Thank you gabby. So you might be wondering. Okay. There's two ladies from diversity ally This is a talk that might be about diversity and inclusion while we're talking about conversations So this is a tough conversation. It's a broad conversation as well So depending on your job role your lived experiences who you work with who you talk to Diversity and inclusion could mean a myriad of things to you in that context But here's the thing regardless of exactly what the conversation is about We do need to know how to have a conversation in a productive way Thank you Anna for sharing. Um, good conversation is when people are talking on the same level not from Authority. Yes Yeah, absolutely And it's really interesting that you brought that up Anna because we're going to be talking about conversation code You probably think it's a bit cheesy because you probably work with or around code all the time But we kind of thought that could be this could be a good way of framing the conversation Around code essentially, right? Um, how can we make this easy to remember easy to use? And it become a habit the way code can help us do things repetitively Over and over again How can we get ourselves into that frame of mind when it comes to hearing engaging in participating in conversations that might be uncomfortable? That require us to see somebody else's point of view Maybe understand something that they have experience that we can't necessarily relate to So that's what we're talking about when it comes to conversation code. Okay So Here we go Now it's really interesting to maybe start by thinking about what stops us from having a good conversation Anna you picked up on that well when we don't feel maybe like we're respected in a conversation Like it's not a peer-to-peer conversation in exchange and equal exchange Um when we may feel like the other person is not trying to understand us or even listen to us Yeah, and I think trust comes into that quite a lot as well because if you don't feel safe within that space that you're talking in It makes it a lot harder to share ideas and thoughts has got to be that element of trust there as well Absolutely exactly um Tell us what stops you sometimes from having a conversation with somebody that you might not be looking forward to Or might make you feel a bit uncomfortable What is it about that person or indeed? um What is it about the topic that makes you feel uncomfortable? Yeah, um, and so This is a really interesting thing to start thinking about now Just to give you some idea and some prompts bias Okay, so often the attitudes and beliefs and ideas that we might have that we might have been taught That we truly believe are right Sometimes those are actually bias Okay, which means they lean one way without much maybe qualification or challenge And actually those attitudes and beliefs might actually be making somebody else feel uncomfortable Or maybe Disadvantaging that person In the workplace in our space in our community and in our society And because we're all humans we all make mistakes We can only but develop based on what we've been taught and what we think we know what we think is right We can all be biased We can all be biased Um Tell us how that makes you feel to consider that maybe some of your ideas or beliefs about people about things about different cultures May not actually be Right, they might be biased We can see some questions Yeah, and we've have um A sharing here. It's not to me if we don't get progress on the same understanding anymore line talking without listening to each other That's also true. We're always human humans, aren't we to um get our ideas across and our thoughts and opinions across and make Understood and one of the key elements we've done on this is that The listening so it's actually probably a lot more important than and moving up expressing your thoughts and feelings So, yeah, that's um, that's really the point Yeah, it is and also Stefan where you've talked to me about um It stops you what stops you if you don't feel like you're getting progress Of the same understanding. We're going to touch upon that later because Sometimes it's a different way of thinking about things that sometimes the conversation might not Result in progress But it's still the value of having the conversation itself So that's something that as humans really honest their stuff and that if we don't feel like we're going to make any progress Or anything's going to change we might not want to talk about it essentially um, but what we're going to talk about is the value in Still having the conversation Even if we don't get what it is that we would like or our best outcome Um, let's still have a conversation about this. Thank you for sharing stepham I can also see that uh yashica How um to make a comment how to have a conversation To know more about our senior colleagues lives without making them feel uncomfortable about sharing it Would be intention to learn from their experiences and mistakes Yeah, that's a good one Let's go through some of the codes then that we came up with to share with you That might actually help and answer that question about how you can have a conversation how you can ask questions Without making people feel uncomfortable Okay, so here we go code one curiosity I guess that's what you're really asking yashica, isn't it if you're curious about someone or something How do you start a conversation or have a conversation that makes them feel comfortable? So here's the thing about this particular code curiosity If we don't come into conversations with an openness a willingness to learn and to understand something or someone It can shut the conversation down before we even get started If we come into a conversation, we just wanted to say what we want to say And not really hear the other person Then we lose this curiosity piece and we shut the conversation down And if a conversation is new to us new to the person we're talking to The conversation is maybe even controversial. There might have to be some tension. There's difference in opinions We have to try To remain curious Remain open to learning about that person's views and why they feel the way they feel Okay, now yashica something practical you could do is be open and transparent about why you're asking the questions So quite often we get asked the question and we're not sure why what the intention is what the motivation behind the question is But if we have a question we can say I'd love to know more about you. I'd like to learn from Your experience. I'm trying to avoid making mistakes myself. I'd like to develop in my role I'd really appreciate given your years of experience if you could share with me How you got here or what tips or advice do you have? Um, what things have you tried before that may not have worked? Um, that you're willing to share with me so I can avoid making those mistakes, too Do you see it's about that curiosity? But maybe being more open and transparent about where your curiosity comes from because then you provide a psychologically safer place For a senior colleague or a manager to share with you To share Those mistakes to share their advice and experiences I hope that's helpful yashica Okay, so curiosity Is important we often get to an age in life where we're told not to ask questions anymore Uh, essentially but actually when it comes to having uncomfortable conversations conversations about differences Conversations about who we are and how we experience life Curiosity can be really useful Can be really really useful do let us know if you have any questions about curiosity Okay The second code Is keep it factual So have you ever shared something with someone a really deep maybe experience something that happened to you that wasn't pleasant and They maybe dismissed or ignored what you said or maybe they said to you are you sure that happened? Maybe it was just a bad day How did that make you feel How did it make you feel when you had that conversation? So this is the thing if we can find a way of staying or keeping to the facts when we need to approach a colleague Approach a peer about something that we may have experienced or that they have experienced If we can ask questions like who was there what happened? When did this happened happen? Were there any witnesses? Keeping it factual in the beginning of the conversation Helps us to reach a common ground. It helps us to agree on a set of facts And after we agree on this set of facts We can then maybe add in well, this is how I felt This is the impact that that thing have had on me Can you see how useful it is to start from a place of fact? Because if the experience that i'm sharing with you is completely new or if it's a conversation That's completely new it gives you a chance to get up to speed on the facts and understand see why This might be important to me in the first place Does that make sense? Do you pop any questions that you have into the chat function and we can absolutely answer any comments even okay any comments even because When something has just happened to us or maybe it's been happening for a long time We can feel very invested we might have more emotions frustration anxiety sadness All of these kind of emotions and so when someone finally asks us tell me about your experience tell me how you feel We overspill very naturally as humans with our emotions But if we're in the context of a workplace with a manager or with a peer for example often the managers or colleagues are in Go mode. So they're just listening for the facts basically. I'm busy I just want to hear the facts and that can feel them sometimes like someone's disinterested they're dismissive But actually what we can do is approach the conversation with some facts so that we can meet in a common place and it gives your colleague or your manager an opportunity to Get up to speed and understand why this might be important to you Why this might be a conversation that they need to engage in a little bit more Okay, so this is a really key key piece of the code that can help us to have Uncomfortable conversations conversations that have conflict in them conversations where we're a new learner We're new to the conversation And right now in the world, there are lots of conversations that are happening for the first time on a global public scale And we might not be versed in them We might not really understand all of the the conversation. We might not understand why this matters even How does this apply to me? How does this relate to me and what I do? What does this have to do with technology? What does this have to do with my job? Why is this talk being featured on this platform in this conference in the first place? But understanding the facts goes a long way to helping us appreciate Why something could matter to someone? Yeah, so this is a really good comment Stefan about Sometime people's reactions. Maybe they're angry or they come across as angry If their fact is questioned, even if you're trying to be objective Yeah, so this is really interesting Stefan. This is a good you brought up a brilliant point. Okay about interpretation of fact Okay, when we're talking about people's experiences We have to be able To give them space and honor that experience Even if we believe that they've interpreted something in a different way to the way we would have Okay, so there are individuals and groups of people who do experience things that can be difficult to express And we might not perceive that to be factual We may perceive it to be a perception or an experience or an interpretation And that makes it quite challenging sometimes for us to engage in healthy conversations. I appreciate that But you know, it's really important where we can when someone's sharing an experience in the workplace and outside of the workplace That we don't understand we don't relate to and potentially yes We disagree with their interpretation of that experience It's still quite important to help the conversation keep going To stick and start with the facts first Try to understand where they're coming from and then take it from from there I really appreciate you bringing up that point Stefan because it is such a common one You know, we may feel like we're trying to stay objective But at times that could present to other people as if we don't care as if we're dismissing their feelings Okay, so it's it's something that both parties in the conversation need to be aware of Really um Yes, exactly. So I see a comment in the comment section about allyship. So yeah part of supporting other people is listening understanding What they're going through in terms of listening to what they have experienced Even if we don't always understand or relate to it, but we can try we can try here So this is code to keep it factual Okay So keep it factual if you're the one addressing the conversation and Try to lean into the facts if you're the one being approached in this conversation So this is an interesting one Uh gabby, isn't it the right participants? So quite often a conversation can go very wrong if the wrong people are having it essentially Okay, the wrong people are there this can go wrong And sometimes, you know, we come out of a conversation thinking Either that was a waste of time or that didn't go the way I hoped it would go But often if we think about this third code and we ask ourselves should this have been a one-to-one conversation or a group conversation? You know, there are some conversations We need to have on a one-to-one in a private discreet place and other conversations. They're okay to be had in wider forums This conversation right now is happening on a on a wider forum Okay, because we're talking through how to have healthy conversations conversations that are uncomfortable about differences And different lived experiences But maybe for example If one of you were sharing a very personal experience, you wouldn't necessarily put it in this chat box function You would seek a safer place a more discreet place with the right people Someone who could help you for example So in the workplace setting if you've experienced something with another colleague that wasn't present Which person should you be speaking to about this? How should you approach them? Do you say something in the breakout area in front of everyone at your desk or It may be better to take them aside into a breakout room into a meeting room And have that conversation So it's really about understanding who the right people are to be a part of the conversation at the right time Okay, so that's the third piece of code that can help you be successful When it comes to having healthy conversations is make sure the right people are in the room at the right time Okay, please keep sharing your comments. Yes, and I'm here To respond to you so do keep sharing So Anna that is a brilliant point. I'm afraid we can't always pick the partners for a necessary conversation Yeah, sometimes something happens in that moment and Or sometimes we respond very quickly and yes Sometimes we might not have access to the right people at that time to have that conversation So there is something we can do which is actually the fourth piece of code Okay for conversations healthy conversations reflection Now what we might have to do Anna depending on what And I'm actually interested Anna. Tell me what you mean by we can't always pick. Do you mean you can't reach them can't access them? Or do you mean you? Sometimes a conversation just happens and then you realize after that this could have been the wrong person to have the conversation with I'm really interested aren't we Gabby and what you actually mean in that instance because If something's just happening or happening in the moment, maybe it won't be possible to choose who we take the conversation to so maybe in that situation and we Maybe don't engage in the conversation any longer. We go away We reflect and think about on what we need to say who we need to speak to and who needs to be involved in that conversation In other instances, we might be able to address it in the moment If a conversation about difference is happening or someone's expressed an opinion that we might find offensive Or you think is alienating to even some of your other colleagues in the workplace Context is definitely everything I'd appreciate it Anna if you could share with us What you mean by not being able to pick the partners for a necessary conversation Is it that maybe senior management aren't always available and accessible? Maybe they don't have an open door policy Is it that when you do approach them to have a conversation that they're not that open really to feedback In reality when you try to have the conversation Because that can happen okay, so Um that the fourth piece of code is reflection And then the fifth piece is the feedback loop So when we're approached about something that might be sensitive or might be unpleasant might be a problem Where a colleague or someone we manage is feeling You know uncomfortable or was offended by something that is happening in the workplace or was said We have to be open to that feedback. We have to be able to take feedback Ask small questions and understand where it is that they're coming from so I can see Anna and everyone That you'll you really want some advice really on allyship And how we can take this conversation code into the real workplace environment and get some changes So let's answer a couple of your questions before we get deeper into talking about diversity So how do we recruit the right people? How do we get people to become allies? So in answer to your question about allies this conversation code is very key Okay, because allyship looks differently to different people. It can be small acts. It can be big acts But here's the thing if we can't have productive conversations That's really hard for an individual to know how to support you and then go on to support you So using this conversation code where possible will enable individuals who want to support you in the workplace To do that because they will be able to open up conversations potentially in spaces that you're not a part of that could be a management meeting a board meeting that could be You know on a team or in a campaign Where something is being produced that might impact you or other marginalized groups women Disabled persons individuals of different Sexualities or gender identities. So in order to become an ally We have to use this conversation code the principles of it to understand what the problem is And understand how that individual group would like us to support them Do you have any other comments gabby? I know on that point about allyship I think you covered it pretty well there shanti actually. Yeah Okay Yes, no, that's okay. And Anna um, thank you first of all for sharing your experience It is incredibly difficult to share experiences, especially in public forums. Um, you know And I can appreciate that at times we may have spoken up before about uh, you know things that we don't think are right, um, especially if We are personally affected by them Um And it's very common to go to a superior and not receive the response that we're looking for Okay, that is also very common. So i'm sorry that you had that experience first of all And secondly, yes in that circumstance. His superior was not open to feedback because we're talking here about healthy conversations His superior didn't reflect on what you shared and they certainly didn't maybe gather the facts with you To be able to honor and hold space for your experience and then go on to make changes and do something differently So Here's a question that you she goes up, which I think is somewhat related to your question, Anna, which is how do you identify The right person to ask feedback from So this can be really, um Challenging To be honest How do you choose the right person to have a conversation with about something that you're experiencing or you're concerned with Or maybe you are passionate and want to be an ally yourself for diversity and inclusion in your workplace and sector So Within the workplace structure, for example There are stakeholders who are responsible for the well-being of everyone So again, it's about looking at who those stakeholders are Is that a manager? Is that your manager a different manager? Is there a HR manager a human resource manager? I know it might be called something different in other parts of the world So is there an individual that looks after the well-being of people? Okay, they often are Hopefully a good person to approach About this kind of matter Now what you want to do usually is gather your facts Approach that person And choose a time or context that could aid the conversation So maybe it won't be appropriate to approach them in a general networking area or break up Room. Maybe very practically speaking. It's about finding a pre-scheduled time A pre-scheduled time for a conversation with them Start the conversation by saying how you Why you're there? What is it you want to get out of the conversation? Why are you having a conversation? And also why you've chosen them to have the conversation with Now what that does is it Let's them into where you're coming from your intentions and motivations But also Helps them understand that you have chosen them really and shown some trust To share this experience with them Okay, and that often is a healthy foundation to start a You know a conversation on especially if it's a challenging conversation And then hopefully And then hopefully hopefully They hear what you're saying now if they're not the right person They should express that and say look. Thank you for sharing with me I may not be the right stakeholder so and so Is the right person that you'd need to speak to about this Okay, this is why it's so important that we all have these conversations managers Senior leaders all of us regardless of our level of seniority within a company Because we all might find ourselves in a situation where we're hearing an experience that's unpleasant that we also need to process And then act upon I don't really have any thoughts there Gabby Yeah, I'd also add add on to that as well on an individual level I think identifying yourself as an ally will make people more comfortable to come forward and then Speak to you essentially if you are in the system or pass them on to somebody who is able to to help them So if we identify ourselves in these roles to our peers and our colleagues Well, it means that we can stop pushing and how we need to speak to people through the right channels if we can't I guess reach the person directly who initially wants to have a conversation with so absolutely No, absolutely and that's a brilliant point Gabby, you know The more approachable we become the better we become at having these conversations with our colleagues and our peers see That we're good at having these conversations They they are more likely to approach us essentially when they have something to share and you know it It's not easy when you've experienced something, you know very similar or the same as what Anna has expressed And it can feel very demoralizing when we have gone out of our way to express that to someone we think has a responsibility Has some accountability to help us And they have disappointed us and maybe even let us down But isn't easy to to deal with And no one should really have to be dealing with that sort of thing alone. Anyway, you know, you shouldn't have to have that weight on your shoulders You should be able to gather your friends your allies your peers around you to support you in that and not have to come with it by yourself as well So, yeah, absolutely Absolutely and it appears as if just based on the information you shared Anna That maybe his superior hasn't been using some of these codes Right of being able to conduct conversations That are productive conversations whereby he can you know act as an ally to you in that conversation And and also think about what further actions may or may not be necessary In that particular context, can you see then why these principles can be very useful? But they're very important for helping us to resolve conflict Around issues that are related to diversity whether that's gender diversity racial diversity Disability inclusion the list goes on Really unless we're able to have better conversations in the workplace We won't see the changes that we're all hoping for I'm just checking the chat function again See what questions we have Yeah, having someone with me might have been a good idea in this situation. Yeah, we all do that We all kind of think we can handle ourselves and we can handle ourselves But yeah having that backup or somebody just knows what happened and the situation that happened is A little bit of kind of support for you. Yeah, it's really absolutely You stop up about Don't and this is the thing it is an ongoing practice. Sometimes we get it right. Sometimes we get it wrong Sometimes we look back and think I could have done that better or I wish that was possible Something that gabby said that's really crucial is about taking someone with us at times Do we need to have these conversations all the time by yourself? No We talked here about code three the right participants So sometimes that could be taking a third party in to a meeting with us that can support us during that meeting Or when we talked about gathering the facts who was there was there a witness. Is there somebody else? That we can also Take into a conversation with us. So that's a brilliant point there gabby and yes, ana I'm having someone with you may have provided more support Um, if we want to continue this conversation, absolutely. So you can find gabby and I um On linkedin you can find us on um linkedin. We'll just scroll to the last slide there This is where you can find gabby and I You can drop us an email directly you can find us on linkedin You can pop on to the website Because the website has a completely free guide as well as a podcast show where you can listen To different episodes about how we have Conversations about diversity and inclusion that are really productive There is also and I'm not sure whether this slide will be shared But there's also a link as well where you can download some further resources as well either. So yeah Um, so either way message us on linkedin and we'll send it over to you or if you get these slides You'll be able to download it directly as well. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Um, and so maybe ana Let's see what we can do to look forward Really, how can we improve? These conversations because ultimately these conversations are still going to happen. They have to happen Unfortunately, we can't avoid uncomfortable conversations forever You know, um Unfortunately, it's going to take time and it does take time For our environments and the cultures that we work into change where maybe people are treated More equally regardless of their differences As human beings So how can we improve our conversations about race? And our conversations About gender for example, but specifically about race now. Why are we even talking about this? This year more than ever conversations about race have been happening on social media in the media in general And in a way that's never really happened before and before now individuals didn't have permission Okay to talk about Race without repercussion or without fear or anxiety in the workplace setting The problem though with all these conversations happening on social media and in the media Is that those conversations aren't within a context? And so we can't always process or ask more questions when we have them and so part of being able to have a healthy conversation Is being open to listening to what others have to say So if you're wondering why is race being discussed to the extent that it's being discussed all over the world Or maybe you're thinking I don't see any issues with race around me Or I don't think this is relevant to the job role that I have or to my organization Well race is important Because it is a difference at times and unfortunately some groups within the workplace some groups within This sector may not feel as comfortable as included. There may not be enough representation So you may not work with a lot of people of different races. You may you may not Maybe you've never had a manager of a different who is of a different race before So here are some tips really about how we can use what we've learned about having uncomfortable conversations When it comes to talking about race Um gabby, you're always really good at talking about a couple of these actually the one about listening in particular Um, yeah, sure. So I think it is a A skill a real skill to Learn how to listen and it sounds strange that we need to learn how to listen, but it is a skill It doesn't come naturally all the time to people even for those who are say, um, Less extrovert or more introvert even then. Um, even as an introvert doesn't mean that you're a skilled listener So I think a lot of the times it's about letting the person speak and share and then Giving yourself some time to reflect before then responding and choosing the way that you want to respond And as the chance mentioned earlier with regards to things like biases We can often jump to conclusions about what somebody actually means when they could be mean something different And that's another another key as well. I think to that is If you're not sure you don't understand what somebody is mean or Meaning or trying to refer to is to really dig in and ask them again to explain a bit further So you get a real deep and better understanding of what they're trying to convey Um, I'd say those those are the key things I always have to take a pause before I want to jump in and speak about something and just make sure I've actually heard somebody Properly not So I just didn't turn into what I think they were saying or what they could be saying And that's a really interesting gabby when you said that because what we think they're saying And what we may want to hear Yeah It's not easy to hear unpleasant experiences But other people are having especially if you've been working with them for a while We may even regard them as a friend We may not have realized that this was their experience in our workplace or in their community in our community We may not have realized that they were Experiencing these things and that's why it's important to put aside our preconceptions About somebody about groups about cultures Sometimes we have to put our preconceptions aside so that we can do the listening part as well I mean what I had a conversation with you didn't I I think a couple of days ago shanty and I was saying it was a little bit kind of upset about conversation I'd had with somebody and I'd actually made the assumption that they had meant something that they didn't because of previous conversations and Interactions we had had rather than seeing this as a new conversation And a new and a new topic or subject matter I related everything that I thought about them previously to that conversation we had and it took it took a nice worth reflection to come back and say to myself and realize That's that's really not what they were saying. Yeah Yeah, except back think and reflect And so that's again how these biases and assumptions who come into play become unconsciously aware of those Will be really useful when having an engagement in these conversations Yeah, absolutely. And you know what grabby thank you for sharing that and I've had those experiences before myself You literally can go off on a tangent internally And that might not be what the person meant or was trying to say Um, and so yeah, you're right taking that step back and thinking about okay What is it this person's trying to tell me what are they trying to express and You know, sometimes instead of trying to figure it out by yourself arcs I asked you What do you think of this, you know, how could I see this differently is there's something I'm missing Uh in this conversation. That's good. And then someone could help you Understand their point of view a little bit better. Okay, so it's hard. This is stuff that we all Have to practice as human beings. It's not easy To have hard conversations and right now one of the hardest conversations happening is about race You know, particularly if you're in the u.s And the uk for example conversations about racial discrimination Um diversity are happening Okay They are happening Whether we like it or not and it's a challenge to know how much to say what to say if to say anything Much less how sometimes our colleagues or friends if they are of different races might be feeling Really uh and so that important thing about approaching the conversation with respect Is important Okay And we're just going to make sure by the way we've been asked whether the slides will be shared absolutely So we will send the slides send the slides to uh You can tell I tongue tied at the moment We will send the slides So that you can ponder over these you can reflect back at some of the codes that we've shared and be able to Try and practice elements of those codes when you're having these conversations about race Now, I don't know if you're feeling brave. Is there a question that you've got about race about race equality That you'd like to ask remember you can use the q&a function and ask completely anonymously We will not mention your name. Okay Here's an opportunity. Is there conversation? Or question rather that you have about race about race equality About maybe the black lives matter movement that you've seen on social media That you would like to ask we're open. We're here to use that conversation code And and maybe answer and help you with that question. Do let us know Um, just on that as well. Um Ashanti Yes, these conversation codes Actually work in all areas of life But you can start by practicing these on your friends and family before you take Taking skills out to the workplace. It's good for all relationships. Yes, you know I don't know why it's just suddenly come to me. There's quite an obvious thing, but You can practice these skills anywhere. Absolutely. You're so right. You can write, you know, you can test them first Rotest them. Yeah. Yes. See how they go and then to see what you know People think and how they experience Yeah, okay, and Angiom shared something as well saying thank you for giving this talk Um, I feel like this sort of interactions and conversations are really needed in the tech field Especially seeing some future science and tech and really lacking in diversity and you guys being here and taking part in this session today Sharing your experiences is hopefully building that confidence and awareness to bring it out into the wider field And stop talking about this more in your organizations and the more people who talk more people share the more And easier and easier you stop bringing everyone on board with me with this. So No, thank you. And I think, you know, you know, we thought very carefully about how we crafted this conversation to make it relevant to Get the balance right between sometimes the heaviness of the conversation Um, but then also thinking about the usefulness of the conversation You know the fact that this conversation is happening on this platform is an act of allyship in itself Because there'll be many individuals whose voices aren't being heard or they're not sure they don't feel safe to speak up to share their views But this conversation alone Can do a lot of good I don't think I've got a really good one here from from ana actually Um, she was saying I actually had a conversation with a friend about the professor that she spoke about earlier um And to get an example of sexism in tech um And he the friend basically said, yeah, but you know, this is just one guy Um, she said I feel like it's always just like one bad apple It's only one person. It's only one bad apple And she's even said here that I made that mistake towards people who've told me about racism Um, which is interesting that you've shared that with us. Thank you for being really honest there So how can we communicate to others at social issues like things and some problems like these are not just individual ones. They are Community society issues Yeah That's really good. And this is the thing, you know, one of the things that I often Think about is I am an able-bodied person. So I don't experience life as In the way that an individual who might have a physical disability does right and so You know, I have to be aware of that as well And and maybe um, I may it's in five years time I could have a physical disability and then I will might look on that in a whole different way, right? So you're right, ana. Thank you for being so transparent. Sometimes we can forget other uh Inequalities You know and the way we may have Related to those inequalities Before might change and we start recognizing we're experiencing one now Yeah Yeah, yeah. Um, this is an interesting question though Gabby that we could discuss. How do we Communicate that these are not just one-off Experiences Hmm You kind of communicated a little bit previously actually recognizing and that a particular area such as Talking about race or a body people or our older more mature communities or our youth And because we don't experience those personally We find it difficult to sometimes empathize and take these things on board but um It's having that awareness starting to become conscious about the way you think about things and see the world Around you. I think and I think that is something that's really happening now Um through globally through every industry through every sector due to what's come up over the past year or so Um, so that is starting to happen and it is practicing and it's a skill that you are teaching yourself consistently And that skill that you learn Like how to have these conversations how to show more empathy towards other societal groups is something that you can pass on to others and share Yes, essentially. Yeah Absolutely. Yeah, I agree with that and um, you know just Learning how other people experience life Can just open up our eyes to realizing that it isn't just a one-off Experience, you know, sometimes we have to be open to learning about other people's customs their traditions their cultures You know and and seek out that knowledge Seek out that knowledge because then we'll start to realize but it isn't just a one-off situation There's not just a few people Experiencing this we can then bring the issue to life Uh, and realize how widespread it might actually be And I even made a good comment here as well about we will have biases and need to become aware of those And how can we use those biases and actually that's really and really smart because As soon as you recognize the bias that you have you then go and find out about why you have that bias redoubled about that particular group or person or circumstance that you and Where you've kind of got that bias from so actually it makes it quite easy for you As soon as you can you can run a little list and go, right What I'm going to find a bias is I'm going to take don't do the work to go and actually search why And yeah, these are thoughts processes. Absolutely Yeah, so true So true Um, so too and and this is a good time to discreetly think about what your biases are, you know No one has to even know at this point. You can discreetly think about okay What ideas and attitudes and beliefs might I have that may not be quite right? Okay, um that I could explore a bit further That could mean that I see or treat this particular person or this group of people in a different way I've been doing it lately with regards to age and assuming that Younger this sounds really basic but assuming that younger person doesn't have as much experience of me because they haven't lived as much As much as lived as long as life is me or been through what I've been through yet And actually that's so wrong to make that assumption and that's something that's a bias and assumption that I've had that I'm working on the moment ages them Um, so yeah, yeah, that's a good one. That's a good one, isn't it? um That is a good one because it can go either way as well, can't it you can Think someone's too old to do something and we see that in the tech industry a lot And actually age is a barrier to entering the industry and being really proficient and good at what you do Um, and so that's a really good one Gabby. Um, You know, it requires us to be reflective and again The things that we're talking about here are these kind of conversation codes Reflection, so it's important to remember that when we go back to these, um Elements in this code. It's not a linear process. It's a continuum We will go back and forth. We will learn something. We will get it wrong and then we'll go again You know, it's it's um, it's It's Managing our own expectations even of ourselves if we're in the learning phase and the fact that that learning never ends And Stefan as well as mentioned here about systemic issues and and obviously talking to people of a different age People have varying opinions About the history and psychology of all of this but one positive I'd definitely say is with the future generations generations coming up generation said coming up. They are really all about social impact Activism ensuring that we live in an inclusive world and that we are there to support all diverse groups So, I mean, yeah Historically and maybe some people still have narrow minded views But I'm really hopeful for the future and our younger generation coming through that This is going to start changing for sure and it will take time It takes effort to really make impact to change but I see it happening. So yeah, absolutely. You're right. So um, again younger generations feel differently as you say, so that's something that we can You know draw comfort from that younger generations want things to be different for everybody regardless of who they are And they're trying to work really hard to make sure that that happens in industries like the tech industry and in the workplace environment Does anybody else have any more questions for us because we've gone through those key conversation codes I'm going to review them briefly, but the slides will be shared. So you'll be able to refer back to them The first one is curiosity Be open to learning about other people and asking respectful questions The second one is keep it factual either when you're sharing an experience or when you are being Approached about an experience try to find the common ground who what where when that can really help the foundation of a conversation to You know grow into something productive where the best outcome is reached Think about whether the right people are a part of the conversation Okay, are the right people in the conversation should this be conversation be public? Should it be a group conversation or should it be a one-to-one conversation? Does it need other people involved i.e. a neutral person a third party? Think about context and timing to get the best outcome Reflect on the conversation. What is being said? What is the person asking for? What actions are required from you and remember you can reflect throughout all of these stages It doesn't have to happen at the end or just at the beginning Use reflection as a way to be more conscious and think about okay What outcomes are we looking for? How can I be the best ally I can be? And then the final one is feedback Be open to feedback sometimes we might hear some things that we don't agree with that we don't understand That we can't relate to and instinctively we might become quite defensive Dismissive We might shut down. We might respond with silence as well Know that these are all natural human emotions And we just need to be aware of them identify them and work through those feelings So that we can provide safer spaces for us all in the workplace Okay, so that's a quick review of the conversation codes Okay, and how we can have more productive conversations. Gabby is going to take us through Where you can find more resources? Yeah, so actually before I do that if you do have time over the weekend or any time of an evening An opportunity for you to do some reflection for yourselves around this You think about there's an uncomfortable conversation Perhaps that you have been avoid and avoiding whether that work or even if that is a Friends or family and how you would use these codes that we shared with you today To approach these conversations that if you have time that's something that you want to take away and have a go at fantastic Um, yeah, so if you want some more from us You can find us both on linkedin a shanty vent would do and gabriel are still brown on linkedin And our linkedin page at diversity ally. You can also find us on instagram At diversity ally and head to our website. We have lots of resources there for you We have a resource hub where you can find white papers research Ted talks podcast everything if you continue your education Um, I'll just feel to feel free to pop us a message by email Um, and uh, we also have a guide as well. I've got to mention that we launched that a week ago So feel free to download a guide on our website and and you might be able to use the elements of it with your team in the workplace Yeah, and don't forget to look to our podcast as well. Um, I'm sure you'll find some really interesting insights Around how you can have these uncomfortable conversations and how we're moving the needle closer to diversity inclusion Globally, essentially, so thank you very much Did I miss anything there shanty? No No, not at all Thank you for joining us. We make like time precious Bye