 conversation. But before that, as promised, we'll also announce our second winner of the Twitter contest. This is for the most innovative tweet. We already had our first winner announced. And our second winner for the conference, we have Amar Shah. I repeat, Amar Shah with a Twitter handle at the rate Amar Shah 30. Sir, are you there? All right. Superb. Can we have a round of applause for another innovative tweet there? You can all follow him at the rate Amar Shah 30 to take a look at that innovative tweet. Let's have you on the stage. All right. Ladies and gentlemen, and with that, let us now gear up for this interesting conversation that we've all been looking forward to. It'll be spearheaded by Dr. Raghbatra, because in this very, very interesting fireside chat, as we call it, he will be joined by someone who's a very, very renowned personality in the advertising and media industry in the Asia Pacific space for the last 30 years. He's in fact built Densu Aegis Network in India from a 15-member team to a 3,500-member powerhouse, now the second largest advertising and marketing communications group in India, overturning for the first time in the existing ranking, which has historically been placed for over 80 years. Ladies and gentlemen, we in fact have the August presence of the Chairman and CEO of Densu Aegis Network, South Asia, none other than Mr. Ashish Basin. So ladies and gentlemen, let's have a thunderous round of applause to welcome Mr. Ashish Basin and Dr. Raghbatra. Louder, louder round of applause. Ladies and gentlemen, as I say, save the best for the last, and this is the conversation that we've been looking forward to. Good evening, Mr. Basin. Good evening, sir. You know, today on stage, we just don't have an agency CEO or a network CEO. We have an entrepreneur who's created more entrepreneurs. So for creating more entrepreneurs and making sure that the ecosystem of entrepreneurship and digital and communication growth give Mr. Ashish Basin a big round of applause. You know, he's made, and you know, beauty is that all the acquisitions, I can tell you, the acquisitions he's made, all those people are very happy being in the system. Normally entrepreneurs, you know, they wait for their payouts, but they're restless. I see, you know, I can talk about two of them who I know really well are very happy. So Mr. Basin, I'm glad you've done that. Today we are talking about mobile advertising, right? You started many, many years back, three decades back. Most clients would ask for a TV plan first. When will the mobile advertising plan be the first to be discussed? Has it started happening? Well, this might reveal my age, but when I started, they didn't even ask for a TV plan. TV was just about coming in, right? Because we were largely a print dominated thing and TV was a relatively new thing then. But yes, I mean, moving now many years forward, I don't think anybody has yet asked for a mobile first plan. And but I do believe that we're not too far from it, probably 24 to 36 months away from it. I'm hopeful that people will start asking more and more for digital first plans and digital only plans because in many ways mobile and digital is a very interlocked ecosystem. And in some manner, it reflects the maturity of the client, the maturity of the brands. And once that starts happening, it'll be a matter of time before mobile comes in because we move from a mobile first nation to now a mobile only nation, right? Where for so at the moment, there are about 40 crore 400 million people, the 460 or well, it depends on whose figures you believe, but I'd like to believe there are about 400 million people on the internet totally, right? We're on the internet. I think this number is going to grow by 2021 as per the density network studies to something like 700 750 million, right? Which means 300 350 million more people are going to come on to the internet in the next two, three years. Almost 95% of these are going to come only through mobile. So in the last one year, whatever number of people have been added, 96% of them are mobile only people. So if we start moving to a digital only plan or a digital first plan, then it's a matter of time before it'll be a mobile first plan. Fantastic. You're saying Sankal has made a beautiful presentation about how those 12,000 villages contribute to maximum sales and how rural India is becoming mobile, more and more mobile. Hope your CMO next time asks for a mobile first plan, okay? I hope you engineered that. You know, there is a famous venture capitalist in the US. We all look forward to her report every year. She does this report called As an Entrepreneur, I look forward to reading what will happen in internet and she's been pretty accurate in the last eight years, Mary Meeker. Now she has this principle that the share of audience and the share of spends converge at some point. Now the share of audience, you just said 700 million, even if we take 400 million, that's bigger than TV. That's two and a half times than the TV audience. But the advertising is one-third of the TV audience. So when do you think this convergence will take place? So I am a big believer that advertising follows eyeballs. And once the eyeballs start going to some place and sticking there, advertising does follow. Your numbers are directionally correct, but not entirely right. So TV today reaches about 750 million, about 75, 80 crore people, right? Internet reaches, digital reaches about 40 crore people. I think it's going to be 2021 when the reach of both will converge. It'll be more or less equal by our calculations. It's around September, October of 2021. Now, once that starts happening, then mobile, digital, et cetera, will start becoming relevant to FMCGs because they want, I mean, like you saw the presentation before, they want large numbers. They want to reach almost the entire country if they can. And that tends to be a tipping point. If you look at South Korea, if you look at China, wherever the reach of mobile has started nearing the reach of television, you suddenly see a huge or reach of digital starts going towards television. You see a huge inflection point. I feel in India that's going to come somewhere around 20, between 2020 and 2020. Next three years. Next two years. Next two to three years. Good. So I think that augurs very well for everyone in this room. Do you think, you know, when we talk about digital and we talk of mobile, bots and ad fraud have become a major deterrent, you know, you look at some global brands that globally scale down their digital and mobile spends because the ad fraud was taking or wasting money. Tell us what as an agency or clients custodian of money of investment, you're doing to tackle ad fraud on mobile. Look, it's a big concern area for most clients. In fact, I would say almost for all clients. It's not just ad fraud. It's also the environment in which your ad is coming, whether you're getting what you're paid for, paying for, etc. This is probably one of the two things I think which are going to run to the detriment of digital and mobile as a medium because no client is going to want to put his money in ads that appear on Isis sponsored websites or ads that you know, some bot farm sitting in Bangladesh has been sort of doing it, etc. No client would want to do that. So that's one thing that can really kill the medium. And I'm hopeful that there's only technology that can beat technology and we will and the big boys, the Googles, the Facebooks who are raking in 70, 75, 80% of the money is they should be investing and they are investing. But I think all of those guys need to do a lot more to bring in technologies to weed this out because this is going to be perhaps the single biggest deterrent to the growth of the medium. The other, which we underestimate is actually measurability because I feel that this is the world's most measurable medium. You know everything about the medium, how much time who goes, what, what do they do? Where do they go? A lot of data is there, but we don't have a single agreed currency, which goes across. So and as the market matures, as the size of digital advertising increases, I'm hopeful. I mean, Bach has been attempting to make a come. You know, you have multiple hats. You're the chairman of MRUC or the chairman of the triple is of high. So you have like your it's in your power, apart from being the chairman of dense to make this happen. I wish it was as simple. I mean, a B's tend to be pretty powerful, but not always that powerful. I'm married to that. My wife is very powerful. Influenced. But you know, the whole industry ecosystem needs to come together and recognize this because look, we can sit on this room and say this is a mobile conference or this is a digital conference. The consumers not seeing it that way. The same thing. When you think of yourself as a consumer, you're watching television and you're watching on your iPad and you're watching on your mobile and you're reading the newspaper called it screenage. So if it is a screenage or I'm a screenager, we may not be teenagers screenagers. Why are we being measured as television viewers or print readers or you are the chairman of this thing? So I think that's the I mean, that's where we need to push the industry to get to measurement. And I feel that once that measurement bit is cracked, that will give the clients a lot more confidence and automatically, you know, that tipping point that you were talking about and why I said it's two to three years away, because I think it will take two to three years to set the right ecosystem for that. And that includes measurement in my view. You know, you preempted a question of mine. I talked about in the morning that out of the 18,000 crores that is spent on digital, of which last year I have this year's report, which will get unveiled. So I don't want to give you the mobile advertising number. But according to last year, 32% of the digital spend was mobile, right? But whether it's in digital or mobile, there's a duopoly. Facebook and Google have 14,000 crores of that. What should publishers and the ecosystem or mobile and digital stakeholders do so that the Indian players or other players beyond Facebook, Google can get more money and work better with clients? What's your advice to that? I don't think any client is wedded to a Google or a Facebook or a Star TV or a Times of India or to any particular medium. They want to make sure that what's the most effective, cost effective, impactful way that I can reach my target audience, right? So any medium, any publisher who is able to give that stands a good chance. But in digital, there is a difference. The difference is that when you are against the big boys and the gap is so much, you need to have the staying power because there are a lot of flashes in the pan. So that many people have come and said we now have 500 million users, 80 million are coming in every day. And you know, you get all those presentations seeing that one year later, they're gone. They're not even they don't even exist on that. So if if there is an Indian publisher who wants to really get into that league, there is something that those guys are doing right, which is getting them viewers month on month, which are sticking there, which they're able to prove by their research and data. You've just got to concentrate on that. Once you've got that advertising will come because there are thousands of guys whose job is to buy media was scouting that where is the audience lying? And where can I pick up a cheap deal before somebody else recognizes it? So they'll find you. But what you've got to make sure is that you are creating a long term sustainable model and not just a flash in the pan, which is only proved by your own numbers and you know, nobody else sees it. So I think that's big. I feel the answer will actually come in regional languages because the other thing that's going to happen is that the next wave of internet mobile, et cetera is not going to come from Bombay, Delhi, and the big cities is going to come from tier three, tier four towns, villages, et cetera. And their regional languages will become much more important. And I think Indian players should have, I hope, a natural advantage in that area. And therefore, I feel that's where the next big guy will come in. And I'm hopeful it'll happen in the next two, three years. My last question before I bring the audience, really the audience in our business is the real deal. Everything else is around the audience. So we'll bring in the audience. My last question, your last acquisition, you've done 12 acquisitions in India. Your last acquisition, SVG, was mostly a mobile acquisition, if I may say. What's your budget for acquisitions? What's your advice to some entrepreneurs, players who'd like to partner with Dan or work with you? Is there a watches that you have? Well, I've got as much of an appetite for acquisitions as you can get me good companies that are profitable and that are growing. In India, money is never a problem. I can tell you that for any good, if I get a good company tomorrow, which I'm convinced has a future and is growing and is profitable today. What I don't like are companies that come and say, five years from now, I'm going to be very profitable today. I'm only making a little bit of money. But if there are companies like that through your forum, I'm saying, bring them to me tomorrow. My acquisition for, you know, I knew Siddharth Siddharth, a web technique, I knew Vivek much before the market I should have brought to you. I would have retired by now. Well, maybe I could have retired as well. They have they know that look, there is a lot of money to be made in the whole digital mobile space in India for the next 15, 20 years. And this is by sheer demographics because so many more, if 400 million people are going to come to new users are going to be added. That's like a USA plus or a Europe plus being added in the next three, four years. There is enough and more money for anybody and everybody to make. So I don't think money is going to be the problem. I think the problem is that digital entrepreneurs and which includes mobile entrepreneurs have started building their companies with valuation in mind and with the intent of how can I make it look more attractive. Those businesses never last. If you build your business that this is a solid business, it is satisfying a customer need and it is growing, generating revenues by itself. It might take you a little longer, but in the long run, you'll make a lot more money. Beautiful. That's my view. Thank you for always being real and sticking to the basics because basics will always count in any rational or irrational market. As I said, we'll take a couple of questions. So if you have a question, raise your hand, ask a short Twitter like question. Any questions to Mr. Basin Sanjay Mr. Trayan, any question you would like to ask? You know, Sanjay sponsored our first event. I remember the first, he was the head of HG.com. He just started HG.com. So, you know, in some way he has helped us on our journey. And I'm glad he's part because he was the early entrant in digital. If no, yes, your Romani has a question. Romani runs a consulting service for startups and incubators and he helps them get market ready. Thank you, Anurag. I just had a curious question. So we talk about reaching audience in the rural area. And most of those people might not be on platforms like Facebook or Google. So how do you really address that, you know, using a mobile app? I'm not sure even I understood. Can you repeat it? Can you just repeat the question? Sorry, I didn't. Even I didn't understand it fully. I understood it partly. So we're talking about reaching out the rural audience and the audience which is not on Facebook or is not very familiar. So before this we had a presentation from Heinz, right? They had... So how do you reach out to people who are not on Google, who are not on Facebook? Right. So what do you do? There's a lot of audience who are not in decisions based on Facebook feeds, right? So how do you reach out to people who are not on Google or Facebook? What would be the marketing strategy for that? If there is a social idea or a program or a product which needs to be reached out to tie free rural areas. So he said Indian language. Sanket talked about the fact you're Sankal, sorry Sankal. I'll get to the second name is tough, so I'll remember it first. Pot Bahre, right? That's very Maharashtrian, yeah? That's Maharashtrian. So he talked about what's happening in rural. I think as he can answer that better, but Ashish talked about the fact that Indian languages, as they grow, maybe some of these users that you talk of were in tier 3, tier 4, also the access rates have fallen now. The average data consumed is 8 GB, right? As videos become big, from a market as gamification has become big, as these trends accentuate, GEO has added its own wings to growth of this ecosystem. So that will happen, but Ashish, your view. I think to answer your question, if you're trying to reach a rural audience which is on digital and is not on Google and Facebook, actually that leaves you with very little, because the numbers, if you believe the numbers that Facebook and Google etc. gave it, I would think over 90% if you combine the two, over 90, 95% of the people who are on digital will be on one or the other. So there isn't much of a number left to reach over there. However, the bigger challenge is that how do you reach people who are not yet on digital, on the internet, and are not yet on, therefore connected to the web. I think that we have a gentleman in Anteladu Thang, which is Mr. Rambani. So if there is one person that all digital companies and mobile companies should thank, if you have an entrepreneur of the century for digital, I think it should go to him because he's completely disrupted the business. I mean as a customer today, I'm getting 20 times more bandwidth at 5% of what I was paying just two years ago. So because of that, there is going to be much deeper reach of internet, which is where the next 400 million people are going to come, because he's also cracking the handset price issue. So far, people were, even if you had data, even if you had the connectivity, the cost of the handset or smartphone was an inhibitor, he is now brought out, brought that down as well. And once a disruptive player like that comes in, it forces everybody else in the ecosystem to force them to do it. So that is something that is going to happen, and that's what I was talking about that in the next two, three years that's going to happen, and therefore that's how you'll be able to reach. And he's now doing, he's in acquired cable company, so the last mile, he's doing direct to home fiber, you know, so he's making sure that there becomes every way the consumption of content and excess of internet is in some way through his gateway, you know, right? Unless until somebody else figures out the scale that he's built, so that will happen. My last question, nobody else is asking, you know, you've seen these 12 entrepreneurs you acquired, in some way entrepreneurs are leaders, you know, that's how they built. What give us one or two interesting anecdotes about acquiring them, you know, some trades that you'd like to recommend to people in this room to be successful. What do you look at when you, apart from the profitable, what do you look at it in the founders? Because I'm sure a lot many come to you, you end up doing only a few deals, possibly reject 10 times the deals than you actually do. So give us some thumb rules. I think there are two things that you must always remember when you're dealing with entrepreneurs. The first thing is that for the, so when you're doing an acquisition, money is very important because you're not going to pay more and he's not going to, he or she's not going to sell less, right? Because so money is very important. There are multiples that are established. All of that. So there are enough guys who will look at that. So that, but I think we overestimate money, right? The role of money. To me, the most important thing, and there are some very attractive looking deals on paper, which I've let go. See, the guy that you partner with, at least that's our thinking at Densuages Network, it's like marriage. You're going to be in bed with that person for the next 20, 30, 40 years. People don't leave us even after they're, so it has to be a person whose chemistry syncs with you. I keep saying chemistry comes before economy. My father was a professor of chemistry. Otherwise there is, every morning you'll wake up with friction and we have a one P and L model which is that it doesn't matter which part of the company you are in, we all work towards one goal, right? Now that's not going to happen if the person is not syncing in with the rest of the team. So what I first look for actually is, is this the kind of a person I want to be as a part of my team? And of course the finances have to fall in place. But the other very important thing from an entrepreneur's point of view you have to remember again is that much as they will say, no, no, I want this much money and all, that is not the most important thing to them either. What is the most important thing? For them, their company is their baby. It's their life. It's beyond, many of them don't have a life beyond that. It's their, it's like they're referring to people like me, right? So I mean, you're an entrepreneur. You'll recognize that exchange for media would have made you tons of money, but exchange for media is also your baby. It's your life. You'll wake up at three o'clock in the night and think, hey, I'm imagining I sleep at three, people who work with the mask. So for an entrepreneur, the company is a lot more than money. And I think I agree with you. If you recognize that on both sides, then that's the only way it can. It's about, it's a baby. It's also a social currency. It's also a passion that kind of creates challenges for you to, you know, you set goals so you, it's like playing golf. It's like, you know, you kind of keep upgrading your level. So the worst way of doing an acquisition is to acquire a company and then pretend that you know how to run his company better than him, change his name, change his everything and say, okay, I'll now show you how you run your company. Well, if he, if you did know it, then you would have set it up yourself. Nobody knows how to run his company better than the entrepreneur who's built it, right? Sorry, I have to ask this question. I'm tempted now that Sir Martin Sorrell has set up his own company, a new company. He will come for India as a market that he'll come after. Do you think the multiples in the domains that exist will go up? Will you ever buy medicine, for example? Will he ever buy medicine? Will you ever buy medicine? Because if you don't buy, I don't think today you will just scale that you don't need to pay money to. Look, that's not a question I'm going to answer on your thing for sure. But I can tell you this that any company established new age, if it is, it must fall as a part of my strategy. There are three things I look for. One is that it must be a strategic fit. I don't buy companies for profitability or ego or whatever. There must be a strategic fit. It must add scale. Our business is all about scale. So any company that adds that or the third thing is it must have something very unique about it. Right? Absolutely. Which that entrepreneur has built. So if any company fits into these three things. So does medicine fit into these three things? It adds scale. It's again not a question I'm going to answer on your Is it about multiple? For you. So I think that's a question you should ask Sam, not me. If you're willing to buy, I'm sure Sam is willing to sell that I can tell you. Not that he's appointed me as a banker. It's about the price he's been trying to sell it for eight, ten years. So I can definitely tell you that we as a company I have made acquisitions as an integral part of my strategy. I want 50% of my growth to come organic and 50% inorganic. And any company that comes into a strategic fit. There are certain areas which are strategically high priority. For me, digital is a high priority because I believe that's where. So the market is roughly 17, 18% digital. I get nearly 50% almost 47, 48% of my revenues from digital. So we are overweight on that. So any company that fits in. With a good thing, I mean because digital is growing at 30%, rest of the business growing at 10%. So obviously it gives you a huge advantage. So if it is a strategic fit, if it is adding scale, if the chemistry is fitting, if it has some unique product in that any and every company is welcome. Fantastic. So I'm sure some of you kind of resonate with what Mr. Basin is saying. Please give Mr. Basin a big round of applause. And I'm sure he'll continue to do more acquisitions and make sure that our ecosystem gets better. But I'll tell you one thing about him. I'm not trying to patronize him. But you know, when I entered the profession, there was a saying 20, I entered the profession 23 years back that nice guy has finished last. I can tell you, I, you know, I worked with some of the best leaders. I deep color made a mistake of hiring me twice. Otherwise he doesn't. I know that I worked with. And you know, my bosses, these are two bosses. And they've both done well. And I see Mr. Basin, I can tell you that nice guys do finish first. So Mr. Basin is the kind of person who proves that. And to me, that's most important. He's always courteous, he's always approachable, he's always giving with his time, with his suggestions, with his graciousness of encouraging us to do the new things that we do. So we partner with him rightly on the 16th January in this hotel, we will do the third edition of the fourth, fourth edition. That is a four season. Four season. On the 16th of January, which is our annual digital report that we partner with Densu Ages Network because we believe what Densu Ages Network is done in the digital space is significant. And they understand the digital space as well as anybody else or better. So just give him a big round of applause and wish him well. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. I'd like to request Dr. Batra to please present the token of gratitude to Mr. Ashish Basin. Well, let's have a huge round of applause. One more time, ladies and gentlemen. Mr. Batra, you can tweet that photo using hashtag screenage as well.