 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump with your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. In this exciting episode of the Mind Pump, I put the in front of it. The Mind Pumpers. The Mind Pump. In the first 41 minutes, we do our introductory conversation. We mention OrganiFi's new Mind Pump page with very handsome pictures of your hosts here at Mind Pump. We made it your favorite hosts. Yeah, we are sponsored by OrganiFi. I do want to mention that. If you go to organifi.com forward slash Mind Pump, first of all, you'll see the picture I'm talking about. You'll also get 20% off for using the code Mind Pump. It's 20% off. I don't know, is that big of a discount? More than you thought. We talk about Adam's Dawson Creek doppeldinger. Little cherub-looking guy on there. Yeah, he's got a nice baby face. Looks like Adam when he was a kid. We talk about ButcherBox's bacon bonanzo. That's a lot of bees. Dude, dude. Free bacon for life for life. Have you guys lost your mind? I almost want to get that tattoo. Are you out of your mind? Have you lost your mind? Are you out of your mind? It reminds me of those- Bacon for life? You know, it reminds me of those commercials on like those used car commercials as old ones. Like if you buy a car, I'll leave my hat or something. My mind is blowing. He'll give you free bacon for life. If you go to butcherbox.com forward slash Mind Pump, you will get the free bacon for life and $10 off your first order and free shipping. Damn. Then we get a little somber. We talk about Anthony Bourdain and Kate Spade. Terrible losses. Very sad. Very, very terrible losses. So we talk about that a little bit. We talk about finding purpose outside of material success. And then we get into the questions. The first question was, you know, this is a kind of a controversial one. Do we think bodybuilding and just training in the gym is for people who just suck at sports? That's why they do it? I don't know why I just think it's a hilarious question. Justin had a phone with them. You felt that way, that's why you asshole. I checked myself though. You did. You guys can listen. You called yourself out. The next question was, what are the best exercises for poor posture like forward children? Now we gave some advice using bands for exercises to help this are really, really successful because you want to do them frequently. We'll also make sure that Jackie links in the show notes the YouTube video that you sent over to me and then I'm going to forward to her. Yes, yes. And now Rubber Bandits is the bands that we like to recommend people get to or buy because of high quality. They're the best quality out there. Now here's the deal. You can get Rubber Bandits from our website. It's kind of a pain in the ass. Here's what you do. You go to mindpumpmedia.com, go click under apparel, go to apparel, and then scroll to the bottom and then you'll see the Rubber Bandits. Hopefully you find an oracle that will guide you. That's right. And from there, you'll make it to Mordor. Mordor, yeah. Give them a gold coin. Good luck. They'll take you across the. On your quest. The next question was, for someone who's training for OCR, obstacle course races like Spartan, what's the optimal way to work out or program your training? We talk about math performance a lot in this part of this episode because math performance was literally designed for people who are looking for this kind of performance. The next question was, why should this person buy a map split, went up until now, we've been talking shit about split routines. Kind of true, but we explain ourselves in that part of this episode. They called us out. Finally, this person wants to be a personal trainer, but they're a total introvert. Should they be trainers, or should they stay at home and surf the internet? They must have taken them a lot to ask that question. Also, dude, there's only two days left. Two days left for the $50 off of our new program, Maps Split. So if you go to mapssplit.com and enter the code split50, you'll get $50 off. Now, this is a pure bodybuilding routine. It is a bodybuilder's program. You have to be relatively advanced to do this program because it will kick the shit out of you. You need a baseline coming in. It is a tough program, but if you are advanced and you want to bodybuild, this is the best split program you'll find in the entire universe. A little overconfident there. A little overconfident. I believe you. I feel good about that. But there's two days left. So mapsplit.com, enter the code split50, get $50 off. You only have two days left for that promotion. Now, we did also want to include a promotion for other people who maybe Maps Split is not appropriate for, like beginners or people who don't want to go to the gym and just want to work at home. We have a program for you. It's called Maps Anywhere, and we made it really enticing. We actually cut the price in half. What? Yeah, yeah. We've lost our minds like butcher boxes. This is the first time we have actually ever cut a program in half for more than a single 20, for more than 24 hours. That's right. This is 50% off for the whole month of June. You can find Maps Anywhere at minepumpmedia.com. Doug, what's up on the screen? Let's hand some bodies. That's our new Organify link. Oh, they made, they gave us our own I'm so glad that they didn't use the stupid picture that everybody uses. Yeah. Doug, can we please get that other one off? I'm gonna put a ban on that. Wait, which picture? Hold on, which picture? It's a picture everybody uses of us. I fucking hate it. It's the very first picture we've ever taken together. Yes, it's like, we're in Doug's living room. Oh, the one where I'm in the back of my neck. I have glasses on. Even that one's okay. That one's like halfway cool. Which one? It's the one where I, like... Justina's glasses on. I'm wearing like a guest long-sleeved shirt. I'm like, and I'm like hunched over you. You look all tiny. And like, I look fat. It's, yeah, it's a terrible picture. Well, this one looks good. It's not inaccurate. This one looks good. This one, Adam's beard is fuller than normal. It's a little out of control. You know what though? It doesn't look, you know what you look like right there? With the full beard like that? You look like very fatherly. Fatherly? Yeah, you know what I mean? Like paternal, like, oh, look at him. He's a nice, he's gonna take care of people. You just, you need a flannel. You're looking pretty manlier. Yeah, it looks very manlier. Justin looks like Justin. I don't think he ever changes. He's always looking Justin-like. Yeah, I'm the guy. He looks like he goes too hard at everything. He looks loveable right there. Super loveable. Yeah, you just want to spoon him in. When's the last time you hugged? I don't know about that. When's the last time you gave him a good squeeze? I haven't allowed it. I haven't given him a good squeeze. You know what? It's very hard to get those from me. The only time, I think, I almost got one out of you when you were drunk a while ago. You started getting all lovey. Almost. You know what, Sal, everybody has that story. Yeah, I'm like, oh, shit, I almost got a hug. I'm like, should I go in for a hug and take advantage of this intoxicated state? I watched Deadpool 2 last night. How'd you like it? So good. Isn't it good? Oh my god, I need to see it so good. It's so out of the loop. You know what's crazy? It's so good that it makes me not like any of the other Marvel comics, dude. It's that good. It's so much better than all the rest of it. The movies? It's because it's comedy, dude. That's what the sarcasm and everything in there are. Did you guys read comic books when you were kids? I loved the first one. Did you guys ever? OK, so Deadpool. He was like that in the comics. Yeah, he broke the, what does it call, broke the third wall or what do they call it? Broke the mold? No, no, there's a wall in storytelling where the character never acknowledges that they're in a comic book or a character. Deadpool would do that. So in between fighting, he'd look at you as you're reading and he'd say some shit to you or make a joke. And so they broke a rule with Deadpool. And that's why he does that in the movie. It's so good. It makes the movie so much more entertaining. It's hilarious. It's well done. The fourth wall, I said third wall, didn't I? Or the fifth wall. It's the third rail, the fourth wall. The presence of the fourth wall is an established convention of modern realistic theater, artist's draw attention, direct attention to it for dramatic comic effect when a boundary is broken. Well, oh yeah, when the character dresses the audience, he broke the fourth wall. There's a fifth wall? What the fuck's a fifth wall? Wasn't that like, I remember Fred Savage, wasn't that like part of his show? He'd like talk directly to the audience and then like get back into it. No, his voice was. Oh, his voice was. That was the wonder years. Wonder years, right. God, you know what? I hated, I liked it, but I hated that show. I liked that show because it was a good show. I hated it because everybody said I looked like Paul. His nerdy friend was on it. Yeah, the nerdy one was on it. I actually would get. My brother used to get screech all the time. That used to piss me off. I used to get, what's the kid from Dawson's Creek? What's his name? And he also was in Varsity Blues. Right, right, right. I can't think of his name. That's what I, in high school, that's what all this Dawson, I don't know. I can't think of his name. His name is Creek. He's the blonde guy. Not the blonde guy. Or the other one. Yeah, the other dude. Doug, pull up. Oh, oh, so it's 20% off people get with Organified. I've been telling people 15% off. Did we cut off your commercial for Organified or? No, no, I just came back up and I didn't know it was, so you get 20% off everything when you use the code. I thought it was 15. I've been lying to people. We know what's good is they go on there and get a pleasant surprise. They get more. Doug, pull up Dawson's Creek. I want to see a picture of who Adam looked like apparently. Yeah, this is what all the girls, I didn't even know. So he must be good looking. No, I don't think he's that good. I don't know. Well, I'll let you guys decide that. I don't know. Remember in high school, I wasn't like, I wasn't like, from what I remember. Which one? So there's that guy, right? Joshua Jackson? Yes, yeah, yeah. That's a bad picture of him though. That guy? Yeah, look back at high school. He's like, he's my age or older now. He's in a new Netflix series, I saw. So go Joshua Jackson Dawson's Creek. Let's see what he looked like when he was a kid. James Vanderbeek. He's not a bad looking dude right there, but he's older right there, right? Yeah, so we'll see. I mean, he's got the chubbier cheeks. Yeah, he's got the round face. That's what I have going on for me. You know what I'm saying? The fat face that kicks in. You gotta hit him. It's beneficial when you hit 90, you know what I'm saying? Like, that was when you were eating ice cream every night. So there you go. Do you see it now or what? Yeah, you did look like him. When I had a more full thick-headed hair right there. Like, that's my hair. You used to look like a bowling shirt. Yeah. You did have like an innocent kind of look to your face. It's a baby face. Yeah. But like innocent, like he looked like he was just a super, like he's a nice guy. He's not coming out. Like he needed the beard. Look how much Barry looks with a beard. Yeah, yeah. Now you look, you still look like a nice guy. You look like a rougher, nice guy. A rougher, nice guy. Yeah, like more. Dude, how about this? What about me and Mapps and Abolic, those videos? Yesterday it was a case he's like, that looks like he's about 12. Yeah. You do look way younger. You know, those videos aren't that old. How old are they, Doug? When did we shoot those videos? Okay, so it's a little while ago. Five years ago. Dude, I wish you would just trust me and like, you're so stubborn, like if someone suggests them to you, you're like the worst, like you don't want to do it. It has to be your idea. But if you were to dye your beard, you would look fucking sick because the silver in your hair looks badass. The beard, it looks like shit on your face. So, you need to, if you were... Why are you getting that? Because someone needs to tell you. You're trying to hurt my feelings. You don't like any salt or pepper there? I've tried to get you to just do it one time and then see the response you get. It will, what it will do, so here's the thing. Who did that? It was the guy in like, what was that like, that movie where they like, were stripping? You know what I mean? Magic Mike? Magic Mike. He's not one guy, the older guy. Munginello or whatever. I feel like he had like a dark beard and then silvery hair. Listen, and this is suggestions not coming from me. It's coming from like my hairstyle. It's like, they'll tell you like a man's beard is like a way to contour and shape his face. So when it gets all gray and speckly, it doesn't do that. It's all looks like someone threw shit on your face. Now, if you take it and you dye it black, it will start to contour your face. Adam doesn't hold back at all. Because I've been trying to suggest it nicely for a long time and he won't listen to me and I'm like, just try it once. Dude, you can wash it out or get rid of it or shave it. You know what I'm saying? It's not gonna end you. You know, your meanness convinced me. I think she's gonna chase. Just kidding. That's a terrible sales actually right there. I can't sell you. You know what you gotta do? Now just be jabbing it. You know what you gotta do? Actually, the corner. What I have to do is when we go on another trip, whisper it into my ear while I'm sleeping, and then maybe I'll wake up and be like, I have an idea. I'm gonna dock in at this, Adam. I want you to literally apply it to his face. And I'm gonna video it. Oh my God. Can you dye my face? I just know if we're gonna do it and you're gonna be like, you're gonna look good, dude. I used to dye my beard a few times. I like the gray. Like it looks good for sure, the way it's speckled into your hair, but your beard, it doesn't look right. And because it's what shapes your face. And if you were to darken it, I promise you, you would. Well, you know what? I think we'll leave it up to the audience. We'll let them, we'll see you guys. No, because you know why? All the people that are in your camp are gonna be like. No, no, no, no, no. I don't really care. Look, here's why I don't care. Here's what you have to do. You have to do it. And then you put a picture of it and then let people, that's what you have to do. Here's why I don't dye my beard. I'll tell you why. Because it's a step. Don't sell it. No, I'm not selling it. It's not, I'm not gonna say anything about it being chemicals on my face and ZNOS or GEN, cause it can't take it. Although those things may be true. Get out. I'm not gonna say any of that stuff. It's just another step. You know what I mean? It's another thing. No, I respect that. That's a process. No, I don't want to do more stuff. No, no, no, no. I respect that. You gotta wear a little bib. Because I'm not, I mean, I have somebody in mind, right? You don't want to get it on your neck and stain your skin. Yeah. Then I have to like. Then you're fucked. I feel like Jessica would love doing that. It'd be like a fun. Girls like doing stuff like that. She likes my gray beard. That's true. That's why it's fucked up your head. You know how many girls too, they tell their guys too, like, oh, I like you like this. And you're like 30 pounds overweight. It's like my mom that says my dad still looks you with this hair behind. Like he looks like he has a mullet. I'm always like, dad, give me your fucking mullet. And he won't, cause my mom likes it. Don't be fooled by our women telling us what they like all the time. They're trying to keep you off the market. I looked at my girl. I was like, what the fuck were you not checking me the way I was dressing like four or five years ago and stuff like that? I totally lost my swag. And you didn't even say nothing to me. Oh, I like the way you dress. Oh, I like this. Like, oh yeah, it looks good. I like that you're losing muscle strength. Yeah. Like, do you really? Yeah, right? Oh, I don't know. Cause you didn't even hit the gym. No, it's paid attention to you. Or they're calling you think they're old. You think it's a conspiracy? It is a conspiracy. It is. Damn it, babe. Are you trying to keep me ugly? All women do this. Are you trying to do that? It's not, it's not heard, dude. Does it make that big of a difference? We'll see. We'll see what happens. I might, I might do it. I might not. I don't know. You know, not to get all somber on it. Wait, wait, before you do, I want to bring something up because I feel like ButcherBox has lost their mind. I feel like they've lost their mind. Oh, wait, wait. Is this the bacon deal? Dude, can I just say this? Can I tell you how brilliantly amazing this is? They did this last year. And you know, they had to stop because too many people were doing it. Yeah, yeah. This is, so here's the deal. Let's call this the bacon bonanza. If you subscribe to ButcherBox, you get free bacon, ready? Forever. For life. For life. Like get out of here, bacon forever. Well, how is that even possible? I have no idea, but like I'm signing up. What happens if we have the scarcity of pigs one day and like the price of bacon goes like, are they fucked? I mean, what happened? Probably, but let's let, let's worry about that later. Right now it's all about bacon forever. Forever. Justin on his own. Listen, I told you guys, I make, like I make everything with butter and the other like big components that's bacon. And cheese. And cheese. Butter, bacon, and cheese. Justin diet. It's very, very much my diet. We should write a guide. Okay. Called the bacon, butter, and cheese diet. Oh. I guarantee you will sell millions of copies. It makes you very humble. How to paint toilets all over the world. Paint toilets. That's just a little bit of a contributor. I call it this. Okay, so I fixed that problem. I call it the speckle bowl. So explain the special, South, because I know that Taylor. If you subscribe to ButcherBox, where you, you know, you pay monthly, you get a box of whatever you pick, right? Chicken, the beef. Super, look, here's the deal. The reason why we're working with ButcherBox is the quality of their meat. The sourcing is, it's insane. It's the best quality. But they were delicious. And it's very good. Good quality. So, but if you sign up and you pay a fee and you get it delivered to you, whatever, just for signing up, as long as you keep your membership, forever, they'll give you free bacon, which is... I just have fun. That's so funny. I'm so excited. I feel like free bacon can get you anything. Like if I were running for president, for example, I'm like, hey, everybody who votes for me. It's almost like, here's some cocaine. It's like, that's so exciting. Yeah, vote for me. You'll get free bacon for life. Bacon, are you kidding me? Hey, I want to invade the rest of the world. I want to take it to the world. Don't do it, but if we do, we'll get free bacon for life. You're literally gonna put a smile on everybody's face. You can convince anybody to do anything if you offer bacon for life. So dirty. Easily, easily. I wonder if they'll have to shut it down like they did last time. Like this will be like a rush of people that will come in. It's kind of like what just happened with all day. I hope so. I hope we like crash their website. Like the movie pass, right? Yeah, we crash their website. This is a wave of bacon. I love bacon. Did you know Matt, you know who hates this? Vegans. This really goes against their morals. Because you know what bacon comes from? Yeah. Cute pigs. Cute pigs. Now the best part, the best part really though, aside from it being grass fed, grass finished is also the fact that, obviously not the bacon is, but I mean the meat that they send over, it's also the pricing. I mean, you can't, to get grass fed, grass finished beef is so expensive as it is and then to be able to undercut the prices at a store and then have the convenience of it shipped to your house. I think that's what it is, right? They eliminate the middle man. Yeah, they did exactly. They did like they thrived it. I mean, this is the future to me. The future of how we're going to get. That's a nice. Doug just pulled up a gif of a bacon like acting all sexy. Like wearing a bikini and dancing. You know what? I wouldn't be that surprised if I walked in on Justin. That's kind of turning me on. Jerking off to that. Oh God. I wouldn't be that surprised. Oh God's disgusting. Yeah, it is. But you were saying about them. No, it's just that I think the future of how we're going to get. I mean, how convenient is it now that we can get food like this shipped to your house? Like literally almost overnight, man. That's so that's so bad. Technology, bro. I know technology has created has eliminated so many barriers. I wonder what it's going to do to like grocery stores in places like that. You got to think in the future that it's just. Did you know you can because, you know, Amazon and Whole Foods, right? Amazon owns Whole Foods now, right? Right. Did you know that you can order your groceries online from Whole Foods and it'll be delivered to your house in two hours? Did you guys know that? Two hours? Yeah. Of course. Of course. How the fuck are they doing that? Because it's Amazon. Two hours. Pretty soon. It's crazy. Pretty soon you're going to order food and it's going to be like Star Trek where it's going. Yeah. There it is, right? Or it's already built in and you get a 3D print it. Yeah, that's true. Dude, did you guys see all the people on our forum that have 3D printers already? Yeah. Our forum is so cool. Yeah, they are. We do have their cool. I was like, wow, you already have that? I know. Some guy said like immediately once you bought it, made another one. Printed another one. Like another one. One of our forum guys has three. Has three in his house already. You know what, so I get a lot of questions, actually a very common question is, Sal, where do you get your studies that you quote so much? These days I get them from the forum. All from the forum. It's such a great resource for me because people will post and I'm like, cool, I'll talk about that on tomorrow's episode. Anyway, somber. You were going to bring something up. I think I know what you're going to talk about. Yeah dude, we have Anthony Bourdain and Kate Spade this last week. I know, young, super sad. 61, Anthony Bourdain was 61, who I was a big fan of his, I don't know about you guys, but I really liked that guy. He was a jiu-jitsu player. Dude, everybody believed like he had the life, right? Like you mean. Yeah, all over the world, like yeah, dude. He was, I mean, food wise, everything else. Like he's made a massive impact. He's one of the few people I've heard other people say like, I would love, I want his life. Like I've heard people say that before about like what he does. He's a very, very interesting guy. And then Spade, she was 55, I think. Crazy. Did she hung herself? Yeah, what happened there? She hung herself. Yeah, I mean like what, so she was an actress? Like, what do you know? No, no, she made purses, like designer purses. Kate Spade purses? I don't know. Oh, you don't know the brand? Oh yeah, it's a very popular brand. Okay. Yeah, it's, you know what it highlights to me is that, because if you look at the drug abuse rate, the mental illness rate and the suicide rate in regards to celebrities, in comparison to the average population or whatever, it's kind of high. And I think what it highlights is here are people with fame, money, access to, you know, sex, drugs, like whatever, basically, way more. Like if you're a celebrity at that level, your life is so different than the average person in terms of access to all these material things that you want. And yet these people, the depression rate is so high and I think, and I'm speculating, I'm not a psychologist, not a psychiatrist, but it is a subject that I'm very passionate about because I find the human psyche very interesting. And I think what happens in these situations is, here you are, you're somebody who may be suffering from depression or whatever, and you think you're going to find meaning and purpose and happiness in material things. Like, okay, I'm just gonna devote myself to working my ass off to make a lot of money or I want to achieve this particular level of success because that's what's gonna do it for me. And then the worst possible thing that could happen for you is you actually get what you want. Exactly. And then you realize it is so much like the Twilight Zone story you share, the Alchemist. I mean, it's really, how crazy is it that when we start to look at that, when you see these type of examples, like, is it maybe the no that you can't have or that you have to work towards that that's where the joy and the happiness is really found? Like trying to look at things like that, like, wow. These people, how many nos do you think they had? How many nos do you think they get or things they couldn't have? Like you get to a point where you make that kind of money, you're at that level that people are just giving you everything you could ever possibly want and some and anything you do want, you can literally go purchase and buy or experience and it really might take a lot of the excitement out of life. Part of the excitement over life is seeing something that you potentially can't have or been told no, you can't have it and then having to work towards it. And I think it's not the end goal or it's not the thing that you achieve when you finally get there, but really the beauty is in the journey there. I agree and I also think, if you look at the human existence or the human condition for the vast majority of the time that we've been on earth, life for everybody, everybody, men and women, children, whoever was extremely difficult, was extremely oppressive. We died from everything. We were hunted by other animals. We were starving, so much mystery in life. We didn't understand why we would get sick, why people would die, why our children would die, wars and famines and it was a grueling, miserable life in existence. And I think humans evolve and here's the thing, we're also blessed and cursed with consciousness. We're aware of a future and a past. We're aware of all these different things and I think in order to deal with ourselves with that consciousness, we had to learn how to find purpose and purpose is not being happy and having good things happen all the time. Purpose is finding meaning in the bad shit, the bad shit that happens to you like, oh, I lost my job or I lost the loved one or this terrible thing happened to me. Well, what's the meaning behind that? What can I take from that? Why did that happen? And if you don't find, if you try to fill that hole within you with material things, I watched a great video with Bishop Barron, he's that Catholic priest I was talking about. The reason why I love the guy so much is forget the religious stuff, that's not the stuff that attracts me to him, it's he talks about these real things and he talks about this spiritual silo that we have that is what gives us purpose and meaning and he goes, if you're trying to fill it with material things, if you're trying to fill it with stuff that you can buy, if you're trying to fill it with- It's a bottomless pick. It'll not only will it never fill, but it gets bigger and bigger and bigger and you start to become more desperate as you realize this isn't helping and I can't imagine a more desperate situation than being depressed and searching for those things and thinking you're gonna get it, oh, you know what, when I finally make a million dollars, when I finally make five million dollars, when I finally get famous, when I finally get all these things, then I'll finally find peace and then you get that stuff and you're sitting there and you're like, fuck, I didn't get what I thought I would get. That's a scary situation to be in and that's- Well, I think that's what happens to a lot of these really like super famous people that we hear that take their lives. Now, of course, we are completely speculating you have no idea what else is going on in this person's life or if there was, and many times it's not- How much is chemical? How much is it coming from? Right, there could be many variables that send them over the tipping point to take their own lives, but more than likely, I think you're on the right track that all these things that many of them thought were probably gonna give them this happiness. Yeah, and it doesn't. And then on top of that, maybe chemicals or maybe someone in their life they lose or whatever. Could you imagine being somebody like this? And again, this is me all, I have no idea if this pertains to them, but could you imagine being somebody who has literally dedicated your entire life to chasing money or chasing things or success while you had this incredible partner all along the while with you and you finally achieve it, you're there, life is so grand and then that you lose them, right? They die or something. And you think back, like, holy fuck, I had the last 30 years with them, but I was so myopically focused on my own desires and goals and monetary things and these things that I thought were gonna create happiness that once I achieved all of them, I realized it wasn't. And in fact, it's all those little moments that I had with her or him that were really feeding my soul and I really devalued that because I was so focused on these other things. Imagine how crushing that has to feel for somebody potential. Oh, terrible. I think your story, Adam, is one that I like to communicate is where you were in an industry making a shit ton of money with potential to make way more fucking money. And you left that industry because in your words, you were like, well, this is not what I thought it would be. It's not what I wanted. And you came back to the industry that made, that gave you that sense of purpose, which is health and fitness. I mean, that must have been, what was that, what was that like, figuring that out? Well, I think, I think- And kudos to you for being self-aware enough. Well, I think I'm really lucky, right? I really believe that one, I was rewarded for getting into a space early. Funny you bring this up because I just posted it. Did you see my post I just did yesterday? You know, I was rewarded for getting, moving into a space or moving into blue water before it's shark infested like it is now. I mean, everybody and their mother seems to be jumping on the cannabis bandwagon. So I was rewarded for that and saw a lot of success really quick. And so the lucky part was that it came quick, right? Like how much that would have sucked had I moved into that space and it got drug out over 15, 20 years. Oh yeah. Right, chasing. That's a good point. Chasing it where I was rewarded really quick and then all of a sudden I had this abundance of materialistic things. And I remember just kind of, and for about a year, it didn't really sink in. For a year it was fucking rad. Like I'll be the first to, you know, it was, you know, the toys and the travel and the, you know, crazy nights and parties and things that I was able to do and stuff. And also too, I'm a big giver. So I was able to bring a lot of people along with me. Like I elevated many other lives along with me, which that kind of fed my soul a little bit for a while. But then it got to a point where, you know, I'm definitely not, it was not an Anthony Bourdain or Kate Spade's level at all. But for me, and what I thought I needed to be at, you know, as the young kid that didn't have much growing up, you know, I had achieved what I wanted to do financially or as far as success was concerned or what I thought was success at that point. And when I realized that, when I, you know, looked at my life and thought about like how I felt physically, how I felt emotionally, the relationships that I had built, the interactions I was having on a daily. And if I was really being honest with myself, I really wasn't happy with a lot of that. I wasn't happy with the people that I was networking with on a regular basis. You know, that's a big part of what I love to do. And, you know, if I'm having to communicate with all these people that were into a lot of drug dealers, a lot of shady people, a lot of people that just have different passions than I did and I wasn't into that. My health was the touring. I was starting to start to really decline after, you know, the first year or so that I was getting into it. So I saw that the relationships that I was in, I had a failed, the first time I ever had like a really failed relationship. First time a woman had ever cheated on me was during that time. I mean, I had a lot of things outside of the money success that I was having that was really kind of telling me. But a lot of people I think, what they do, and I did this for a while too, is you numb it with, like, nothing like a, you know, it's cool when a girl cheats on you and you can hop on a plane the next day, go to Vegas, drop $20,000, $30,000 with a friend, poolside with girls all over you, and I mean, that'll numb that right up, you know? And you can only, but you can only do that so many times before you realize like. You have to keep upping the ante, right? Exactly, you know, because, you know, before that was a big deal. When that becomes no longer a big deal anymore, it's like, well, what else do I need to do to try and band-aid this stuff? And so, you know, I started to piece that together. And, you know, where I think I was blessed and lucky was that I was wise enough because I was older at this point in my life. And so I had, and I've shared this before on the show that I took my, I had this, you know, after I had made a bunch of money when I was in my early 20s, spent and lost a lot of that money and saw where my house went as I lost a ton of equity with the whole, you know, 2009 era and stuff like that. What I started this thing were, okay, I need to be more responsible financially. And so anytime that a month went in, I would evaluate my income and say, okay, let's say I had $500 or let's say I had, you know, $15,000 extra at the end of the month. I had to invest or save half of that. And then the other half of that, I could, you know, go blow and spin. So because I had implemented that into my life, it really saved me because, you know, after a couple of years of blowing a lot of money and trying to fill this empty hole, I still had a lot of money that I had put away and saved and covered myself to now reevaluate where am I at in my life right now? What really does serve me? What does make me happy? And that's what drove me back to fitness. And I was, okay, I was lucky enough to be able to say I could walk away from everything. I could say, I'm gonna just bury my head into this. We'll figure it out. That's when Justin and I really reconnected again and we started working on the app at that time. And you were dating Katrina at this point? I was just starting to get with Katrina. So Katrina was with me on the exit of the cannabis clubs, but still was with me when I was still brokering cannabis to all of the clubs. So I used a lot of my relationships that I built when I was running the clubs to then use to broker and I was also growing and doing all those things. So that was, and then I continued to do that for a while. And until finally I was just like, and I had lost family or I've lost friends. Like so one of my best friends, we don't speak anymore. So that happened during that time. A family member, a cousin of mine, like I completely rode off him during that time. So I destroyed more relationships. At the time during that I was making the most money and had these things that I thought were so important, I destroyed the most relationships, both family, friends, a female relationship, like in that time and that's me being looking back now. In it, you don't see it. You know what I'm saying? In it, it's them, right? Is she cheated on me? It's her fault, right? You know what I'm saying? That's bad on her. Yeah, clarity comes when you step out of a situation and if you're self-aware enough, you can start to get clear. But when you're in it, it's like being in a game versus watching a game. You're in a game, you only see what's right in front of you and that doesn't tell you the whole story. It's so great too, because I even look at my attitude now with the way we handle this business and I'm again so glad and lucky that I went through all of that first before we all came together. Because even when I look at money and finances now, because I still enjoy that stuff, I'm still monetarily driven, but I look at it more like a feedback or like a point system to me now than I do like I need to reach this dollar amount. So like when I see revenue coming in for the business and it's not like, oh, I get excited because I'm gonna go buy myself something. In fact, many times we don't even touch that kind of money, right? It goes back into the business. It's more like a feedback of, oh, it's growing. Oh, it's doing well. Oh, it's like the business is healthy right now. Yeah, right. It's like scoring points for us for the win, you know? It's a difference between being happy that you see your business growing and needing it to do that kind of stuff. There's a big difference. It's that needing that's a, for me, like my kids, I mean, they do that for me more than anything else I can imagine. I mean, having children is the most, I could easily say the most challenging thing that I do on a regular basis. And it's challenging for a lot of different reasons. It's challenging because you have to sacrifice a lot of course, money and time and freedom. It's challenging because nothing will challenge your sense of vulnerability like a child, if I don't have kids, if something happens to me, I mean, of course if something happens to my family members that I'll worry about that kind of stuff, but it's not like worrying about your kids. Like when my kids to walk to school, if my son forgets to text me when they get there, there's that kind of challenge, right? There's a challenge of that fear. The challenge of watching them go through their challenges and growth. The challenges of when they wanna, test and be rebellious. And they haven't even become teenagers yet. So I don't even know what that's gonna be like. Like it's the most challenging thing easily I can say that I have to do, but at the same time, nothing gives me purpose and meaning like that. Nothing at all. Like I look at them and I look at what I do and what I do for them and watch them grow. And it's fulfilling. It's fulfilling. It's not happiness, although there are extreme times of happiness with my kids where I'm just ecstatic. But you know, you get happy, sad, frustrated, mad. My kids will piss me off too. It's fulfillment. It's hard to explain, but I think that's the best word. Well, even with kids or not kids, right? I really think it's the challenge, right? So it's lucky for me that I also have an incredible partner now. I mean, Katrina had been with me for seven years now, obviously is very much so responsible for a lot of my growth and evolution too, because I have a partner I can rely on to check me on my shit or have me look at things differently instead of just jumping on the feel sorry for myself. That's such a valuable thing. Oh, it's incredible. To have somebody there that you know is gonna challenge you. Right, right. You guys were just joking about it before we got on air. Yeah, we did yesterday. We were watching this video that we all did. We're using a teleprompter that we have and we're doing this presentation thing and we all watch it as a group with our marketing team. Like everybody's there. So it's like a big group or whatever. And at the end of it, we're like, oh, that was good. That was good. And Katrina's like, I could tell Adam's reading or something like that. Real quick to let me know what's up, right? But she also does it too. We're like, this is a business and there's definitely hard days and challenges and I'll come home and I'm venting. I'm frustrated because something's not working the way I want it to or whatever, right? And she always just checks me that, would you want it to always go your way? Like you wouldn't, would you? And it's so true. It's like if it was so easy, how quick would you be bored? How quick would it be unfulfilling that? It's like if anyone could just do it or if it was that easy, then it wouldn't be desirable for me to pursue it. The fact that it's challenging, the fact that I have these setbacks, the fact that I fall down, the fact that I fuck up, the fact that I make bad decisions or I get frustrated is the real sauce, man. That's where it's really sweet is learning to. Yeah. It's interesting to me just to think about how many people are really like stuck in that frame where they're still trying to hustle and trying to get to a place and a destination and they're not pursuing anything that's giving them current purpose. They're in a job space where they're doing and it's out of like, they're trying to survive. It's protective, it's comfortable, it's safe. And it's interesting to me because I mean, it's not that long like I've been an entrepreneur. Like I was sort of in the mindset of like I need to get a job to scarcity like side of that. Like it's frightening, how am I gonna make ends meet? How am I gonna do this? And to be able to kind of pull yourself out of that and then create something yourself. I mean, it's so empowering. It's funny, because I'm always like suggesting that to people, but it's not for everybody at the same time. It doesn't have to be with business. It could be with so many other things. Sure. One of the things that I enjoy communicating to people and clients is doing things for the sake of doing them or doing things for the sake of the enjoyment of doing them. And when you can find that space, and I use this usually in the context of fitness because when I'm talking to clients, obviously I'm trying to help them, create a healthy lifestyle, a fit lifestyle. And so I try to communicate them that training and exercising and eating for goals, there's nothing wrong with that necessarily. All of us tend to set goals and wanna achieve and accomplish particular milestones. But if that's all of your motivation, you're not gonna be in a good place. You're not gonna be consistent and you're gonna find very quickly that it's not gonna be enjoyable. Now, if you exercise and eat right for the sake of the pleasure of doing those things, like if you sit down in front of a plate of really fresh organic vegetables and grass-fed meat or whatever, healthy, well-prepared types of foods, and you're doing it not for the goal of losing weight, but if you're doing it for the sake of the pleasure of doing that one thing and you find pleasure in that, or if you find pleasure in exercise, like I work out today, and I do have goals sometimes, but the main reason why I work out is I enjoy working out. Like I just enjoy the process of doing it, I'll never stop because of that. What you're describing is, we keep talking about being present, but even the challenge of raising kids and they force you to be present in that very moment. None of that other shit you're thinking about matters at all to them, and they want that attention, they want that the eyes, and they want your being to be there with them, and that's what I'm finding that even more with if I'm training or if I'm, yeah, I wanna get ready for whatever the fuck goal I have or whatever, but what really matters is what I'm doing right now, and how about I just focus on this specific exercise, this specific workout, and the more intent I can bring into that process, the better it makes everything, and plus my mental state is way better and healthier in that process. It's such a mindset too, like if I'm sweeping leaves in my backyard, it wasn't that long ago where any type of manual labor, I fucking dreaded it, I hated it so much, but now what I do and the mindset that I create now when I'm doing these types of things is I say to myself like, well, I'm here, I'm doing this, I wonder if I can find enjoyment in the act of actually doing this, and you know what's funny? You can, and you can do it many, many times. I've done this when working with my dad, my dad works with his hands a lot, and when I was a kid he used to bring me along, and although I enjoyed spending time with my dad, I used to also hate doing mixing cement and grabbing the buckets of sand and bringing them on, I was like so hard or whatever, but at one point as I got older, I remember thinking to myself like, well, I'm here with my dad, this isn't gonna last very long, because at some point I'm not gonna be doing this, I'm gonna be moved out of the house and stuff like that, and so at one point I started just enjoying what I was doing at that moment, like I'm here with my dad and we're building things together and we're doing, and it's like a light bulb, it just, it switches and all of a sudden, it's almost like- And changing your perspective. Don't make reality your enemy, like don't go to war with your reality, make friends with it, if you're too short, if you're too fat, if you live in a place or whatever, sometimes you can make friends with it because it's the reality, and you can work towards changing things at the same time, but you can make friends with it and find that, it'll change, I guess it gives you kind of a little bit of a purpose and meaning behind what's going on, and I'd like to say this, I know we have a large audience and maybe you're listening right now and you're in a sad state, maybe you're depressed, you feel empty, you feel numb, and I tell you what, like you can always reach out to one of us and hopefully we get lots of messages, so, but hopefully we'll see yours and we'll reach out to you, but just know that there's people definitely care, even if you feel like nobody does, people definitely do, and the first person that needs to care is you, and just I hope that'll help people just by hearing that, so. For sure. My sister just sent me a text saying that Kaepernick is trying to sue Trump. Please pull that up, please pull that up, Douglas, please pull that up. Are we talking about that on this episode? Can we? Can we? Why not? Can we just go right now, record this motherfucker, let's do this. I know what you'll do, be like, hey Doug, before you say the question. Yeah, yeah, yeah, all right, all right. Doug, before we go, pull up that thing that Adam just mentioned. Dude, my sister just texts me right now that, that breaking news. Kaeperdork is trying to sue freaking Donald Trump. For what? I don't know, I got it, we got it, Google magic over there, let's go, Douglas. That's, talk to me here. I didn't even know this was happening. The last person you should try suing on earth. Report, Colin Kaepernick expected to subpoena Donald Trump. What is that whole article saying? I can't read it. Mike Pence. The next, well, I gotta read it, you gotta open it. The next move in Colin Kaepernick's collusion, collusion case against NFL could involve subpoenas against Donald Trump and Mike Pence. His legal team are expected to seek a federal subpoena to get testimony from Trump and Pence and other officials about what? The goal is to find out via the Federal Arbitration Act what Trump, Pence and those officials said in direct discussions with NFL owners about Kaepernick's free agency. Oh, he just wants to find out what they said to the NFL owners, what their influence was. He can do that? Like you could subpoena the president about a private conversation? Well, apparently, we live in a world like that, you could do that. I guess they're trying to use the subpoena Trump. The Federal Arbitration Act, good luck. Wow. Yeah, good luck with that. Come on, they just laugh at that, right? That's a lot of money. That can't carry any weight. I don't know. How much money does that cost to put all that together? Sister, I appreciate the love sending over so I can look this up, I don't think that this has any legs. I don't think you, I mean, come on, Donald Trump's just gonna, it's just probably a publicity stunt. It does sound a lot like a publicity stunt. Right, Trump's gonna laugh at it, be like, fuck off on the president, bro. Fucking subpoena me. Yeah, we'll see. That'll be interesting. It is interesting. I'm sure we'll get a lot of support with it, but yeah, I don't know if that's gonna go anywhere. He's already got a ton of support as it is. All right, bring on the question, Douglas. This clause brought to you by Organifi. For those days you fall short on getting your organic veggies or whole food nutrition, Organifi fills the gap with laboratory tested certified organic superfoods to help give your health the performance the added edge. Try Organifi, totally risk-free for 60 days by going to organifi.com. That's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I dot com and use a coupon code MINDPUMP for 20% off at checkout. First question is from Carmen Alessa. Do you think bodybuilding and just training in the gym is for those people who aren't talented or good enough for real sports, such as football, soccer, Olympic lifting, et cetera? Explain that to me. Do you think bodybuilding? So she starts off by saying, by the way, she's a huge fan. She's a pretty ripped young lady. Carmen Alessa, great page. But anyway, it says very controversial question in not her opinion. Do we think- I like this question. Do we think that bodybuilding in the gym is for people who aren't that talented at real sports? Yeah, yeah. Well, definitely not, because I did it. You know what I'm saying? I can play sports. It's completely different. Although, I will say that it is very common to meet a lot of very unathletic bodybuilders. Yeah, you know what's funny? It is common. It reminds me of just because somebody's muscular and built because they lift weights in the gym, does not make them athletic. Well, let's unpack this a little bit. They're just muscular. Let's unpack this a little bit. And this is an overgeneralization, but it's true that many bodybuilders that are huge, big, monster, steroid guys out or someone who grows that size were driven through insecurities because you were probably very small. Most of them have these great transformation pictures of when they were a 16-year-old boy. And so they probably didn't have the most athletic build when they were younger. Therefore, they probably weren't very good at sports. They found something that fed their physique and was able to build it and shape it and they latched onto it and fed. Now, that's an overgeneralization. There's exceptions. I'm an exception to the rule. I was an athlete my whole life. I pursued it for other reasons. So of course, I'm not alone. There's other people like that. Well, Phil Heath, Mr. Olympia, wasn't he a college basketball player? I don't know if he played college, but he played basketball definitely in high school. Now, he was an exception to the rule as far as he was this just genetic freak. And that's why he's named that. And he was that way. In high school, he looks better than what I look like on 500 milligrams of testosterone. Oh yeah, you see that picture of him when he's in high school? Yeah, in high school, playing basketball. I don't even know if he's lifting weights at that time. Just shooting a ball around made him look like... Wasn't Ben Pekolsky like an athlete too before? Yeah, I think Ben was. He said the first time he squatted is like 400 pounds or something like that. Yeah, he just naturally just sat into it. Fuck you, Ben. Okay, you and your genetics. But I definitely think there is a lot of, I mean, I think there's a lot of insecurity in bodybuilding. I think there's a lot of people that... That's not a controversial statement. That's true. Yeah, right. And it's true too that I think a majority of them are unathletic. Now, it doesn't mean that there's still a bunch of them that are athletic. I think... There's a lot that are. I mean, not a lot. I would just say that it's totally an overgeneralization. I think it just hits on something that, whereas an athlete, you kind of look at some guys that are humongous and you want to kind of take them down a notch. You know, there's a little bit of that too from the insecurity from the athlete side. Oh, of course. You know, like kind of looking at these guys is like, oh, well, they're huge. Yeah, but they can't fucking move. And then every now and then you'll see one that does like back flips and like, can jump out of a pool and you're like, oh, shit. Right. So it's just funny to me because it highlights a lot of like this division where it's like, you know, I want to, I see somebody doing something awesome and I want to kind of cut at them a little bit, you know? And it's funny because I actually caught myself a lot growing up with that kind of chip on my shoulder that like, I'm an athlete, you know, I'm an athlete, I actually fucking use my muscles. You know, those stupid bodybuilders like all they're doing is just puffing themselves up to like peacock around and look like assholes and be a douchebag in the gym and check themselves in the mirror. Right. Like, I don't live like that. Like, you know, and I had this like total like, like perception of them. Meanwhile, you're walking around at a badass because you're an athlete. Yeah. It's just like, it's one of those things though. I had to check myself on that and like really like calm down and appreciate it more as I started to train that way too. And I remember like going through that and like starting to do hypertrophy training. Oh my God, this is fucking brutal. Like it's a brutal process. And then there's that other side of the eating component that I was like completely uninterested in. And then going through that, it's like it gives you like an appreciation that yes, it's just such a discipline on a completely different spectrum than what I was doing. That's all it is. It's just different, you know what I'm saying? I mean, I remember when we used to hang out with Craig a lot and he was when he was living over here and God, he used to get so mad if you referred to a competitor, a bodybuilder as an athlete, you know? Cause I still talk like that. Like when I work, to me, they're all sports and you're an athlete and you're all... You know, that was a debate back in the day. Is it a sport or is it art? In the 70s and 80s, it was a big debate. Right, right. And I think there definitely is a athletic component to it. I don't care what you say, you know? Like you can... There's an athletic skill to lifting weights. Here's the deal, bodybuilders definitely build athletic ability at their sport. So if you watch a bodybuilder work out, they work out good. They know how to work out, at least their body. It is specificity. Yeah, they know how to contract muscles, isolate muscles. They know how to, you know, hit a body part a particular way. They know how to angle, you know, exercise. Which to me, I think is no different than comparing a tennis player to a football player. I mean, there's a lot of major differences between those two sports, but there's still sports in their own right. Take a top level swimmer and put them on a field and watch athletic there. They're not, you know? Because what makes you good at swimming probably makes you terrible on land and vice versa, right? You need short legs in the pool with a long torso and long arms. On the field, you want kind of the opposite. Here's a, this is a little bit of a generalization, but there's a lot of truth there. Generally speaking, more strength and more muscle will benefit you at whatever sport you do. Generally, not always, of course. Like if you're a, you know, if you race horses, you don't want to be a massive person. If you're in a weight class, you don't want to be a massive person. But generally speaking, more strength will definitely benefit you. So bodybuilding or resistance training, I should say, will benefit any sport. But if you go into, if you never played sports and all you do is go to the gym to build muscle, you're not gonna get better at sports. You're just gonna be a bigger, stronger version of yourself, which was someone who was non-athletic to begin with. There is no place I see this where it's more prevalent than in the fighting sports. So much more prevalence in the fighting sports because in the fighting sports, you know, if you're a fighter, if you're a boxer or a wrestler or a grappler, you're always testing yourself against another person and it's dominance, right? Can I pin you or can I choke you out or can I knock you out? And big dudes with a lot of muscle, you know, if you get two people of equal skill, like exactly the same skill, same fitness level, except one of them is bigger and stronger and they fight, the bigger, stronger guy is gonna win because strength does matter. It's just not gonna work. Well, we saw this, we saw, if you're gonna use MMA, you saw this example when we saw Brock Lesnar come into the UFC, you know? He came out and kind of dominated some of his fights right away because his brute strength was so much, he was so much, it wasn't even the technique. It was no technique. Well, he was a wrestler and he was a D1 wrestler. Yes, so he came in with that back. I'm just mean in terms of life. In comparison? Yeah, comparison. Well, yeah, then you saw, he ran into Frank Muir and Frank Muir fucking ankle locked him and fucked him within the first round. The next time they fought, yeah, that didn't happen. No, no, I mean, yes, bigger and stronger if all of the factors are the same, it's gonna help you win. But I used to see this in Jiu-Jitsu all the time because a big guy would come in, would wanna sign up, has zero skill in Jiu-Jitsu. And Jiu-Jitsu is one of those sports where, you know, if you're throwing punches, there's always a luck, you always have a lucky puncher's chance. Like if you connect luckily with a punch and you're a big strong dude, you're gonna put someone to sleep. There's no luck in Jiu-Jitsu. You have to know the technique or you don't. Like you're not gonna submit someone just out of, you know, sheer luck. Well, you're not gonna submit somebody that has technique and understands it, right? I could go put someone in a chokehold without any sort of practice of Jiu-Jitsu. But I'm not getting a guy who's a black belt in Jiu-Jitsu. I'm not putting him in some choke or anything. I'm getting choked out for sure. And so you see them all the time. And abiding by their rules. Right. And so you see it all the time and it's always fun because you know you have skill and technique and so it's like, it's your own ego, right? Oh, I'm gonna show this big guy, I can manipulate his body and choke him out and put him an arm lock or whatever. So you see that all the time. But yeah, why do people pick bodybuilding? It's not because they suck at sports. It's because they want a bodybuild. I mean, I got into lifting weights not because I sucked at sports. I got into lifting weights because I wanted to build muscle because I was insecure about my body. It wasn't because I said, oh shit, I gotta find something I can do because I suck at everything sport wise. The reality was I didn't even care about that. I really didn't give a shit. It was, I'm gonna lift weights because I know that's what's gonna put the most muscle on my body because that's the one thing that's designed specifically to do that. And so that's what I ended up getting good at. But in terms of like, why are they doing that? Is it because they suck at sports? No. But yeah, bodybuilding isn't gonna make you better at sports. Although I will say this. If you take the average sedentary person who does nothing and then you take the average guy or girl who lifts weights on a regular basis and both of them are shitty at sports and then you have them go play a sport. The dude that works out or the girl that works out. That's an advantage for sure. Yeah, they're fit. They're more fit. They're more strong. There's more strength, more mobility. Yeah, strength, cardiovascular, everything that comes into play. Yeah, all that comes into play. The funny part was when we used to have when we were at 24, our fitness together and we had a group of trainers. Everybody was in great shape. Great shape. And then we went out to play softball and you just quickly realized who has any athleticism at all. And it was very, very crazy to me. There was only like maybe two or three people that actually had athleticism. And I was very thrown back by that because I just assumed right away just based off their physique and the way that they moved that they had athleticism. It was not even there at all. No, that's why I think it's very interesting. Where she's heading with this question, I think there is some truth to this that I do believe that there is a large portion of people that tend to gravitate towards bodybuilding that maybe failed towards athletic pursuits or maybe never really pursued them at all. Didn't care. I'm sure it's happened, yeah. You know what I'm saying? They instantly fell. I mean, Sal was an example. I mean, very young age. His passion for lifting at 15, mine was for sports. I had the lifting in the garage with my friends was an afterthought. I was looking to play basketball outside or go hit balls on a field. That was what I was doing at that age for sure. And even into my 20s where somebody who might've found bodybuilding at a young age like that, they just never really pursued athletics and they went towards sculpting their physique more. Now that all being said, if you're looking at the average person or you're looking at the population and if you had to pick something that would benefit their lives, their regular lives, more fully than anything else and forget bodybuilding for a second. I'm just gonna say resistance training because bodybuilding is very specific. Oh, you could still say bodybuilding because I know where you're going with this argument. Yeah, it's way better than a sport. Oh, yeah, no. I mean, you take the average person, you're like, okay, we're gonna make you fit. You know, that's the cross. We'll play basketball. You know, that's a big crossfit defense, right? So crossfit always comes back and says, like when people talk about all the injuries that happened in crossfit, the joke within crossfit is that you get, there's way more injuries in the, you know, average American that just plays pickup ball. It's probably true. It is. No, it's definitely true. I mean, being somebody who played pickup ball his whole life, it's rare that I would go to the gym and somebody didn't go down with an injury. That's true. Because you have a bunch of amateur people that aren't trained. Moving explosively. Yeah, moving explosively. I mean, I'm shit. Fuck, that's how I tore my Achilles. That's how I tore my ACL MCL was playing, you know, rec league type basketball in my mid to late 20s. So yeah, no, I think that that's a, it's a common argument or debate that crossfit will have when somebody tries to point out their injuries. So they're like, okay, so you're saying that, you know, it's not safer than, you know, Joe Smough going down to the gym and playing and like, okay, I can see that defense. Next question is from Mofo Lolo. Mofo Lolo. What are the best exercises for poor posture like forward shoulders? Forward shoulder is quickly becoming the, like an epidemic. It's the state. It's already been an epidemic. Posture, yeah. And it's the. Thanks to the phone. It's the most common posture deviation. There's a lot. C.D. Rose, a great one. Yeah, in fact, when I was, when I was a personal trainer and I haven't trained anybody, you know, like, except for like maybe online coaching, I haven't done anything like that for a few years now, I could, I would, I can guarantee you if I'm going to do an assessment on you, that it was rare to not see this. I would always, I would say I guarantee we're going to see forward shoulder. Especially here in the Silicon Valley. Like think about it for yourself right now. All the assessments you did, how often would you do an assessment on someone and be like, oh wow, they don't have forward shoulder? No, I've read it. I've talked about this before, maybe not on this podcast, but that upper cross syndrome is, I think it's like present in 75 or 80% of the population. So. What do we also call kyphosis is another term that's when the low back is also, that's a and that was an old, that's an old stat that I used to ramble off. So I think it's worse now than ever. I mean, I go outside and find someone without it. Yeah. You'll be out there for hours. I'm blown away by what we're seeing right now with, you know, the four, I went to the movies last night and I'm walking out of the theater and it was crazy because it was like just a busy time. Katrina and I went around five or so. So it's like six, seven o'clock in the mall, which is crazy time to be in there. And I just don't go there a lot at that time. And as I'm walking out of the mall, you know, there's probably a herd of 20 people or so coming from all different angles to walk funnel into the door. And I'm looking out at everybody who's kind of like walking towards me and I'm dodging people and every single person was walking, reading their phone while they're walking into the mall. With the forward head. Yeah, yeah. Just heads down, looking down at their hands and texting, I'm like, whoa. Like we, people don't have no idea, shrimp. Yeah, dude, you have no idea what's ahead of us in the next 10 years. Your body molds and shapes to what you do the most. Okay, and on extreme levels, humans have figured this out and have shaped their bodies in very strange ways. Like for example, if you look at pictures of the, you know, Geisha girls from Japan in the 19th century, where they used to bind their feet as they were kids. And what they would do is they take their feet because it was desirable to have these little tiny, tiny feet and they would bind their feet as children. And as they grow, the foot would actually grow underneath itself. So you step on top of your toes. Yeah, and it looks like a little hoof. You can actually Google pictures of this. It's disgusting. No, it's horrific. And you can, Doug's about to do it right now. No, don't do it. And you can see. I've seen it, I don't need to see it. You know what? It's actually Chinese. Chinese, I'm sorry. Sorry, Chinese. They also used to, in some cultures, they would bind, they would bind like planks of wood to people's heads or to children's heads to shape the head so that they were elongated so that they had these long upper, no way. Yeah, and I forgot what culture was that did it, but I knew the rings. The rings in the neck, that's another one. We're elongating the neck, but the one on the head is funny because you have all these conspiracy theorists who are like, oh, that shows proof that the aliens visited and they wanna look like aliens. Yeah, they're trying to mimic the alien overlords. And I'm always like, how do you know what a fucking alien looks like? Like, how do you know that's what they're trying to do? You know what I'm saying? It's stupid. But yeah, your body molds and shapes. Because aliens, because I saw Independence Day, duh. To what you do the most of. So the reason why I'm saying that, the reason why I'm trying to make that point is, we're gonna go through some exercises. We're gonna tell you what you need to do. But here's the key. The key is frequency. Okay, when it comes to changing a recruitment pattern, it's different than trying to build muscle. Doing it two times a week in the gym is just not enough. Not if you're trying to correct an issue that you have going on. You have to do it all the time. Yeah, take, like, adamantly take breaks from sitting at your desk or whatever you're doing at the time, really present yourself up, right. Get your chest up, get your shoulders back. Look up even. A lot of times, I'll check myself to look up and get my body in full extension because, man, it just feels great to do that. Yep, do this. Do this. If you have a poor posture, like forward shoulders, well, first off, here's the issues that it can cause. Besides looking like it looks, it causes neck tension because the upper trapezius muscles try to stay tense to stabilize your shoulder so you have neck tension. You'll feel tension in your upper back. It could cause shoulder problems. It's connected to headaches too. Connected to headaches because those muscles in the neck attach at the base of the skull and when those get tight, it can trigger headaches or migraines. It causes your head to go forward so you get that kind of weird forward head look that comes along with it. It can cause breathing issues because as the shoulders come forward, you're not able to get a full diaphragmatic breath which then contributes to the feeling of being in a sympathetic state which feels like anxiety. So I've literally- And you're talking on all things. Now, I feel like it's important to even say too, like this is something I used to do with clients just to show, especially my female clients, especially if you're curvy and you have shape to you, like, bad posture looks so- You got some boobs. So bad. Like you can take somebody, not lose any weight. Like I used to do this test all the time. Like, you know, I'd stand them in front of the mirror and look at their body and stuff like that. Then I would put them in the correct posture. Like this is what you're supposed to look like. Everybody looks better. Oh, you look better than if you lost 15 pounds by standing upright. Somebody that immediately, your confidence goes way up. Yes. Not only does it go up because you look different, but it actually goes up because there's this feedback mechanism with your body where how you feel in your mind or emotionally changes your posture. But your posture also sends feedback to the brain that says you should be feeling a particular way. It's the power pose. Yes. I mean, it literally works. It does. I've done it like going into like big meetings. Like I will literally throw my hands up and I'm in this like victory position. So you know what's funny is that I remember when I was first starting as a trainer and I remember learning NASM and the corrective exercise stuff and all the like quadruped, the prone cobras and like all these exercises that I felt were mundane. And I know I didn't put a lot of energy and focus on with my clients. You just knew you kind of had to do them. Right. Yeah, you should do this every now and then. Like I know I was taught to tell you and teach you and stuff like that, but I really didn't. Looking back now, I look at these are some of the most important things that you can incorporate either into your day or into your routine. Because of what it's addressing. The prone cobra for the average person that does it. Amazing exercise. They look at it and even they do it and they're like, okay, you know, whatever. Don't really feel it. But what it's addressing is literally the most common areas that everybody is neglecting with. Imagine if everybody just stopped in middle of work and did that a few times a day. Oh, 100%. It would change the way your day felt. Yeah. You know, for all the reasons that we just covered. Look, here's an easy thing. This is very, very easy. Get yourself good quality resistance bands because they're super easy and convenient. You can take them anywhere. You some pull-aparts. The company that we like to work with is Rubber Bandits. And the reason why we work with them is they're, I've worked with bands forever. It's part of, it's trigger sessions of MAPS anabolic and bands snap and they're just whatever. These are really, really quality. So get yourself good quality bands, take them with you to work and several times a day. Okay, and here's the key now. Because you're doing it so frequently you're trying to change a pattern. You wanna do it frequently, but you don't wanna go super intense because then you start to tap into recovery ability. So then if you go too intense with lots of frequency you'll actually cause yourself more problems. So the goal is several times a day, three to four to five times a day for a grand total of 30 seconds. Take that band, put it around an anchor point like a door. In fact, I think the Rubber Bandits comes with door anchors or whatever. Stand up real tall, do a standing row where you focus on, forget the arms. I should do a whole YouTube video on this. Forget the arms. The arms are coming back. Shoulders are trapped in pinching. Squeeze your shoulder blades back and down. The down is important too. Don't just bring them back because otherwise you'll just shrug them because you probably have shit on you. You'll notice you wanna elevate your shoulders. Let's do this video. I think this would be a great YouTube right here, Doug. If we got time after this I would love to actually do a video because I've been wanting, remember I told you I've been wanting to do like an iPhone thing? This is like the same thing, right? It is the same thing. I think we did one, didn't we? I think we might have done one. No, we have not specific to that. Like I wanna do one that's like addressing iPhone postures like I wanna call it or how do you address the forward shoulders? I do a little more Taylor. And I wanna give some practical exercises like this and so they can see, because here's the thing too, this is what's really important. Okay, now if you have really excessive forward shoulders and you go to do a movement like a prone cobra or you do like a seated row, some people, it's so bad because they've been in that position for so long that they can't get connected to the muscles responsible to get them in the proper alignment when they do it. And so they don't really actually help. They just solidify this poor recruitment pattern that they already have. So how you do the movement, how do you do these little prone cobra or quadruped? Are you do these types of movements? What's up, Sam? I did, I did, I did. I'm gonna send it to you right now, Adam, so you can maybe we'll link this in the show notes. But it's the title of it is How to Fix Rounded Shoulders and the picture in fact is me on my phone with rounded shoulders to kind of show people what that looks like. Oh, when did you do this? I did that with a while ago, like three, four months ago with Taylor, specifically. I don't think anybody was in here. It was just me and him. Oh, I don't even remember you doing this. We didn't even notice. Yeah, we should definitely put this in show notes. Put that in the show notes. We'll send that to Jackie. But yeah, so do grab a band, do some standing rows, pull the shoulders back and down, squeeze real hard, let them roll forward, repeat. Do this for like 30 seconds, you know, every day four or five times a day. And within a matter of a week, you'll probably notice changes in your posture because you're changing those recruitment patterns. And it makes a life-changing difference to do this kind of stuff. It's not about intense workouts when we're talking about changing pattern. In fact, like Adam was saying, if you go too heavy or too hard, your body's gonna revert to... Default. It's default pattern and you'll actually strengthen the wrong thing. So make sure you go easy and light and bands are just perfect for this. Next question is from Stellar Hefe. For someone training for an obstacle course race like Spartan, what's the most optimal way to program training for aerobic endurance, strength, and the functional skills required to do these kinds of events? Is it best to focus on one specific type of training, per session, or incorporate several of, or all of these? Do master formats. So this is what, so Katrina races on Saturday. Oh, is she doing another one? Her and her brother are doing another. Oh, so she got bit by the bug, man. Well, they're trying to, you know what Spartan does really well? It's so brilliant. So... You go to see them, man. I know, let me tell you, this is so brilliant. Like, so when you do their race, they have different ones, right? They have a sprint, they have the... What's the big monster? The biggest monster, I think it's one. I know it's not a monster. It's something else though, but they have like three levels, right? And as far as how challenging, how long they are, how many obstacles, how many miles total. And when you go through it, you get like this really cool medallion. But it's a single medallion, but it fits into a bigger medallion if you have all three. So you want to complete the puzzle? So you want to complete the puzzle, dude. And it's a pretty dope piece already, as it is by itself. And then together it builds like this super cool medallion, right? So of course her brother got that, like, he got it. The gamification they built this for him. Dude, we went out to eat after I went last time. Motherfuckers wearing it inside, like, I think we stopped by him. No, he didn't. That's dude, he's walking around with this. You know, and I totally did not say it. So if I love you, if he's listening to this right now, it's just teasing, right? Like, you know, but it just shows you the sense of pride that it put in and it's kind of cool, right? So Larry's, you know, my brother-in-law's 40 years old and, you know, he used to be an athletic guy when he was younger. He's now, he's had a computer. He's a computer guy. And he sits at a computer desk all day long for like 16 hour days, some days. And, you know, there's a part of him that he, the reason why he signed up with Katrina was to just see if like this is something that he still can do, you know? And just him completing it gave him this like sense of fulfillment, made him feel good. You could see that. Then they reward you with the medallion. So you could see the sense of pride in him wearing it around later on, you know? So anyways, back to how I'm helping them. So I'm actually helping both of them train for this. And Justin's right. Maps performance would be a great thing to be. Oh my God, how long is performance? It's like, is it 14 or 16 weeks long? It's a four phase? Yeah, because there's like two week phase where it's like all just devoted purely to completion. We actually had somebody in our forum that actually did it and they crushed it. They did better than the previous time. So it works really well with that. Now, I took it to the next level and was really specific because now I've had the opportunity to go to these races. I've seen all the obstacles. Plus you know them. You get to train the person. Exactly, I know them and so I'm there. And so what we do is, so most of the races, you never have more than about a one mile run between each obstacle. So I have them run for a mile and then I have them do a couple drills. So that might be a dead hang that I have them do because there's a lot of that type of stuff where you have to hold your own body weight up or go across monkey bars or climb over something. So having good grip strength and being able to hold their body weight. So we do that. We do some pull up work. We do some like sled dragging because they have to drag some things like that or pushing or carrying so sandbag carries. So there's a lot of things like that. And so I typically pick two or three exercises that I incorporate in between each little lap that they run. So they go take off and we're running outside because I want them to be used to the impact and running on the ground. It's not, you could use the treadmill for cardiovascular reasons, but you want to obviously emulate what they're doing outside as much as possible. So they're running outside. They do about a, you know, three quarter mile to a mile run, do a couple of obstacles, do it again, come back, do a couple of obstacles, do it again. And we continue to increase the amount of volume of one, the obstacle stuff they're doing, and then also the amount of time that they're taking to get through the mile or so. And that's kind of how I've progressed Katrina to get ready for that. This is something that I would love for us to do because I think we have a large OCR audience that actually would love some specific programming. I think in general, I think Maps Performance does a really good job that if you're following that, you're gonna get the benefits of doing it. Oh yeah, if you're 16 weeks out from a race, first off, you need to do the specific, you need to be smart and trained specifically for the obstacles and stuff. Practice, because they all require a high level of skills, not just about being fit. It's also knowing how to swing across things, climb things. You don't want to find a gym that has ropes and the sandbags, like you mentioned, to carry and all these types of things. Yeah, so do all that for the specific skill portion of it, but you can do Maps Performance from beginning to end and have the end of it lead you up to your event, so you peak for your event and you'll be perfect. From a fitness standpoint, you'll be perfect because it's literally designed to address all aspects of athletic performance. That's the whole thing behind Maps Performance. It's full spectrum athletic performance. So strength, agility, speed, mobility, having a bigger gas tank. And the way we designed it is that it ends right into a season. Because when we first wrote the program, the goal was like, okay, this should start in the off season, but then it should lead to being in season, so then you're ready for your sport. Maps Performance is perfect for this. And then you can introduce those very specific skills within the portions on the mobility days as well. So that would be something I would suggest. If there's some specific skill, I'm trying to learn how to climb a rope better. I'm trying to learn how to manage a big stone and walk with it. I would actually apply that on those days and really focus in on that. Great idea. And then that way I'm still building and applying and getting this general strength overall and then building my skill set as well. Next question is from Mark Calhoff. Why would I buy Maps Split when up until now I've been told full body three to four days a week is superior? For example, anabolic and aesthetic. I love how he's saying that. Jam, jam, jam. No, you know what? It's true and in exactly why we released it the way we did was for this reason because for 80% plus of the population out there, a full body three to four days a week is superior because there are very few people I have trained in my life and I believe the boys will add to this that can actually work out consistently six to seven days a week for month on, month out, year on, year out. Most people have other lives and other pursuits that they or family and kids and things that get in the way of being able to train six. Most people can do sprints of that, right? And what we have found that most people have long-term success where they can keep themselves in this shape for a long period of time when you can build and structure a program that is designed that they only need to be in the gym three days a week. Now, that doesn't mean that there's not a 20% of the population that are more like probably the three of us who love to be in the gym six, seven days a week and have made it a part of their lifestyle and their career and they're in there all the fucking time and so there is ways to split the body up and be very beneficial for that person. That's a good point because body, let me tell you why body parts splits typically suck. The reason why they typically suck is the programming. It's not that you're breaking up the body. That's not what makes them shitty. It's the fact that most modern body part splits, first off, hit each body part once a week. That is too little frequency of training for most people. Most people need two to three days a week of frequency. Two to three being the average and a lot of that depends on the volume and your independent genetic, the way your body recovers and all that stuff, right? But most modern splits work out like this. Monday is chest day, Tuesday is back day, Wednesday is shoulders. They're literally going to the gym hitting one body part and that's it for the entire week for that body part. That's just not gonna work for most people you need more frequency. In fact, the original body part splits that Arnold and Franco and all those guys did still train the whole body two to three days a week. It just devolved into this and the reason why it devolved that way is because body builders are on a shit ton of steroids. They don't need to train that frequently. They can hammer a body part once a week and their anabolic signal stays elevated all the time. Somehow they can still walk the next day. Yeah, they're on tons and tons of gear. Not to mention too that the training the six days a week split type of routine is more volume than again, 80 to 90% of the population needs when they first. Most people that are listening to this podcast right now are coming on or off the wagon. They were consistent for the last six months or year. Oh, they got busy, work, family, travel, whatever the fucking excuse is and they're getting back in the gym. They have no business going right to a big split routine that's six, seven days a week. But somehow they get this impression or this idea they need to be doing what their hero is doing on Instagram. Right, well that's what's marketed to them right now. You have to be doing this because Jay Cutler is doing this every single day and this is how it works. Right, and you're not Jay Cutler. Jay Cutler has been doing that for the last 20 years. Yeah, but forever. Consistently and has built up that his body can handle that much volume. Andy's a genetic freak. Right, that it needs that much volume to maintain that mass. Andy's on gear, Andy's on, you know, that's his job. Here's the other thing. Body part splits, modern ones, they never phase or periodize. There's no periodization in body building split routines ever, it's literally one body part a day, go to the gym, eight to 12 reps, change your exercises every once in a while, do that forever. Yeah, and it's all about the supplements. That's gonna be the end. You know what's funny? I don't know any other resistance training modality besides the typical modern body building type modality that doesn't periodize their training. Olympic lifters do it, power lifters do it, kettlebell athletes do it, people that work out with clubs and maces do it. The reason why they all do it is because the body, first off, they measure their results by their performance. Bodybuilders measure their metrics. Yeah, bodybuilders measure by aesthetics. Well, I can not progress in the gym at all with my workout and just change my diet and it looks like I'm progressing, which is what a lot of bodybuilders do. Or I can manipulate my water and my carbs, or I can manipulate my drugs. Now, performance athletes, they can do that as well, but you're not gonna get your squad up 50 to 60 pounds just by doing those things. You have to have really smart programming. In fact, if you look at the typical, you know, dumb, and I say dumb not because people are dumb, but dumb in the sense that there's not a lot of programming involved. You look at the typical dumb body part split routine, look at it in front of you, and compare that to the typical power lifting routine that's accepted that people will use like Smolov or some other, look at the difference. You're gonna look at the power lifting routines and just have percentages of maxes. It's gonna have periodization. Here's where you go max effort. Here's where you go light effort. Here's where, because that's what works on the body. So that's another reason why splits tend to be shitty. They don't do that. So what we did, and by the way, this entire time that we haven't written a split, this entire time that we've written full body routines, we've been getting pestered by people. We wanna split, we wanna split, and we knew at some point we would write a split, but it just wasn't time. But we knew when we write it, we're gonna do it the right way. We're gonna make sure you get the right frequency, the right intensity. We're gonna program it right. We're gonna phase it. And we really took it on as a challenge. That's it. Well, and then we're also gonna present it as not the ideal place to start. So if you're somebody who has maps anabolic and you've followed it, and then you follow maps aesthetic and you also are open to going to the gym six days a week, I highly recommend split to you. I think you'll love the fuck out of it and you'll see great, because it's added volume. You're definitely gonna see change and progression. Now, do you think you can maintain six days a week and continue doing that that much volume? I don't know. You know that answer. And we know that a majority of people, the answer is really no, which is why we waited to put it out this long. It's not us changing our tune from, oh, full body is superior to now saying like, oh, hey, split is superior. No, this isn't like a fucking sales pitch. It's there are some people that this is going to benefit. There are some people that are at this level and could use this. And it is, like Sal said, something that people have been begging for for like the last two years from us. So here it is now. And here's how we recommend that you use it. We don't recommend it for everybody. Here's the ultimate bodybuilding training cycle. Ultimate, start with anabolic, go to aesthetic, go to split, start to cycle over. Okay, if your goal is only bodybuilding, if that's all you're looking for, literally, we always recommend that you individualize your training, especially if you, once you've done the program once, that you start to individualize it. Cause at the end of the day, we're great trainers, but we're not training you individually. We're writing programs for everybody. So when you start to learn about your body, make sure you individualize it. But if you want to just follow the directions, here's what you do. Anabolic, aesthetic, split, rinse and repeat. Anabolic, aesthetic, split. Watch what happens to your body. Cause you can go from low volume, heavy strength, higher volume or bodybuilding focused to straight bodybuilding focused. Start over that cycle again. That is like a, that is an infinite cycle of progress. And I think if your diet's good, you will probably reach your genetic potential faster, following a cycle like that than anything that I can think of. I love it too. Cause it highlights like how we approach things. Like it's, we're not, we're not married to an idea. You know, like we're, we're challenging ourselves to like, like find the truth in, in multiple different pursuits. And so I think that, you know, I love questions like these because it feels like people are like, no, well I put you in this category. Right, right. And then it's like, no, no, no. We, you know, yes, we do feel strongly that, you know, it's superior for most people, but guess what? You know, we're going to challenge your ideas in all kinds of different directions. Excellent. Next question is from FayeBird23. Would personal training be a wise career choice for an introvert? No. Well, let's ask Justin. Are you? Well, I'm not an introvert. You're not. What's hilarious is that people think that just because I get uncomfortable when it, when it's like all the attention. I don't think that people think you're an introvert. Some people say that. You know what? I'm definitely not. You know, I've never heard anybody say that. You know, it's true about this. People have told me that. Oh really? Yeah, a little bit of a contrast, because when we're talking, he's with me and you who are, if we're in front of Mike or camera, we're super. Here's the thing about introvert extrovert. We're needy little bitches. Yeah. You guys talk a lot, you know? I know people, people don't realize that, you know? Like, like getting a fucking word in edgewise has taken me three years. Are you know what I'm saying? How do you not go crazy with a couple of big mouths like us? Oh, I love it. See, that's the thing too. I love good conversation. I love listening too. So it's not like, I'm not scared to talk. It's just like, I get enthralled. I get like into what we're talking about. Dude, I have to fucking talk. It's why this works. I see people that are trying to build something similar with three hosts and it's, what I see them failing miserably at is that it's really tough to find. You need to have a Justin. You do. You do. You gotta have somebody who doesn't give. Soften it up a little bit. They don't care about talking that much. It's not their thing. They have something to add when they wanna add it, but for the most part, it's not a need for you to be in there and interject all the time. Here's the thing with introvert extrovert that I learned a while ago, not too long ago, but a while ago. Depending on the situation, first of all, it's very rare to find a pure extrovert and a pure introvert. For the most part, it depends on the situation. For I'll use me as an example. If I'm on the microphone and I'm doing a podcast, if I'm in a small group of let's say five to 10 people, if I'm in front of a camera, I'm a extrovert. I'm as extroverted as it gets. You put me in a super large group, or if we're going to a party where we need to mingle and I don't know anybody, I need to be with an opener. Like I need to go with someone like Adam, who Adam in those situations is a pure extrovert. Like we go to a big party, I know Adam's gonna break the ice and then I'll come in and do my little, you know, my work when I get a little bit more extroverted, but that whole breaking the ice thing, that's not my thing. That's when I become introverted. So it depends what you mean by an introvert. Like if you're a pure introvert, you probably don't wanna work with people at all. Right, yeah, yeah. No, don't. Be an engineer, something where you can just like type away at shit all day and like not, you know, answer to everybody. Everything's like, yeah, you have to be able to have like some form of communication skills and interactions with people. This is part of the process. You're trying to help other people. Well, that's such a good point because I think that a lot of people think they're an introvert because they're scared to put themselves out there and that's different. Like, so if you're like so sure with your friends and you're outgoing and you're playful and you're loud and you have a great time and like you're a people person, but then, you know, you're comparing yourself to maybe some YouTube stars or even like you just as an example, you see what we've done in fitness and you're like, oh, I don't know if I could get on the mic and talk and I don't know if I, if you're comparing yourself to others that you see doing that, well then, yeah, you know, that's totally different than you being a true introvert where you don't like being around lots of people. And I think you're absolutely right with there's very, very degrees of it. And I think that like situationally, like there'll be times where I pull back, you know, and I'm like, okay, I'm not, I'm not like gonna be all out in the front for this, you know, type of environment in this situation, but there is, you know, times where it's like, okay, I'm gonna be out there in front of everybody. I'm gonna entertain everybody. I'm gonna get out there. I'm gonna talk to, you know, whoever and like lighten it up. And so it's just, it's a matter of like finding your strengths and then like using that and channeling that when you go into your craft, your job, whether it's personal training. So that was something that I connect with people in a different way that you guys each connect with them. And that's something you find within yourself. Oh, it's funny. You put us on a stage and watch Justin become an extrovert 100%. Put us on a stage and that dude all of a sudden becomes like super extroverted. It's different from person. I've had trainers. I've had trainers who are very, very successful, who are more introverted than other trainers who are also very successful, who are more extroverted, both very different. That's why I said Justin. I didn't say, I didn't call your name because I think you're introverted. I used to use an example because you're a good example of a trainer who was a top producer. Let's talk numbers right away. Okay, so first, the reason why I spouted out right away that no, is just because the odds are greatly against you. 80, it's an 80-20 rule already with training. So 80% of the people are making only 20% of the money and 20% of the people are making 80% of the money in this space as it is. It's definitely, there's not an even split here at all. It's very tough to be successful and it's not a super lucrative business as it is. So it's already challenging to make a lot of money doing as it is. And then on top of that, if you add that you're an introverted person, you're only making it more challenging. Does that mean there's not a very successful introverted trainer? No, not at all. In fact, we've met YouTube celebrities that you think are extroverted and that are making millions of dollars on social media and shit like that and they are introverted very much so, but because they can perform on YouTube, they actually have learned a way to build a very successful business in fitness because of that. So if you have a strength that you can play to, like Justin was saying, that for example, I think there's room for somebody who's brilliant and that can program really well or is really, really understands nutrition or has worked with so many people and helped so many people nutritionally or these things you have something to really contribute that separates you from the extroverts that are into fitness. Well, then you now have an edge, you have an advantage and you can play into that and you have an opportunity to be successful. But I'll tell you right now, the odds are against anybody, first of all, even wanting to get into fitness is not an easy space to be successful. And then if you're also going to be introverted, it would be, you know, really challenging. It's just like, I would say the same thing too, to someone coming into the space who's fat. Sorry, but we're in a very superficial space and even if you're the most brilliant person, you're getting into, you're adding something to, or you have something. You're adding to the barrier. Yeah, you're adding a disadvantage to being successful in a space that would be, does that mean that a fat person can't be a health and wellness professional that makes lots of money? No, they exist, they're out there, but it's gonna be that much more challenging for you because it's a very superficial space. Same thing goes for being an introvert, doesn't mean you have to be, it just means that a lot of people that are into this are into people like Sal said and a people person, that's really gonna help when you're working with thousands of people. Well, I'll tell you what, we're a part of it. You know, Jessica's a great example of that. If you put Jessica in a crowd or with a lot of people, she can be very shy and very introverted, but on a one-on-one basis, she's extroverted. One-on-one, she flourishes. Now, she's a personal trainer, she's extremely successful. She runs her own business doing it. She likes working in a private studio because that's where she flourishes because it's a smaller environment, smaller group. It's more of that high-quality person-to-person type of interaction. She does very well. But if you're a pure introvert where you really don't like working with people, you're not really, you consider yourself not a people person, then why would you wanna work with people? Because that's a personal training. That's gotta be the worst. Maybe write blogs, maybe write fitness blogs. You're like, ah! Yeah, it doesn't make any sense to me. There you go. Stick with computers. Check this out. We all have Instagram pages. You can find us. I'm at Mind Pump Sal. Adam's at Mind Pump Adam. Justin's at Mind Pump Justin. Also, we have free guides. I don't know if a lot of people don't know this. You can get a bunch of our free guides like Flabby Arm Guide, Flat Tummy Guide, how to maximize your high-intensity interval training guide. You can find those at, where do we find, where do we send people to those? The- Mind Pump Free. MindpumpFree.com Go get your free guides. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at Mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance, and MAPS Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at Mindpumpmedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes, and by introducing Mindpump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support, and until next time, this is Mindpump.