 Yeah, yeah, then church I go to is the reverse is the reverse. Yeah, you got to go to a better church Because they're only there cuz they're like we're gambling. I don't know about you guys Sure, it sounds like you believe in a guy. Yes. Why? My personal experience is Extraordinary I've faced death And I mentioned we're talking about the Christian God. Yes with Donald national seventh. They haven't That's cool. Some day evidence, please don't associate me with Ben Carson Fair enough fair enough, I'm glad I caught you on a Okay, cool, that's nice nice. Yeah, so where's where's near church words name of church? Hillcrest seventh day Adventist church national. Yes Near downtown 25th and Clarksville a lot of old people lot of old people nice and peaceful. Yes It is well part of it. Well, no, but when I say a lot of old people. I was I was making a point We do have a significant Senior population, but we do have a young adult population as well otherwise wouldn't be there our pastor is younger than me Oh, wow. Yeah, so we are the oldest black seventh day Adventist church in America. What do you? So how confident are you that God exists like say like I scale from zero hundred I am I am beyond confident Because because of my personal encounter you want to show me like on this like this is like absolutely no way I could be wrong I'm close-minded. I'm absolute versus no way. I'm close-minded. I'm absolute. There's no way the God exists So you're beyond close-minded I'm beyond close-minded that there's anything other than God you're beyond close-minded Yeah, God is God exist. God exists whether I would believe in it or not Can I ask you a question sure what made you so confident? How do you become so confident to justify it had it and it's a weird question? So I'm just gonna say it again because I'm most likely sure what method are you doing that? Justifies that high level of confidence I'm the kind of person that I have to have a personal experience with you in order for me to believe you I'ma show me person right, you know, you you tell me you're the world's greatest arm wrestler I'm gonna put my hand on the thing and say let's go okay, right? Yeah, you got to beat me And if I beat you does that mean you're the best in the world? No, but it means that it means that I'm open to believing it Okay, it makes you more willing to believe it even if I can if you have a personal experience Absolutely, it could still be wrong. It could still be wrong, but at least I did it will open my mind right if I have a personal experience that that That affirmed my point of view I could still be wrong My personal opinion my personal experience that leads to an effort though that affirms That still that it could be validated somewhere along the line Yeah, right further down the line Further down the line it could be if it didn't it but I'm not ruling out that it could validate for me at that moment Our personal experience is a hundred percent reliable No, no not always a hundred percent. Let's justifying your over a hundred percent level of confidence So my personal experience I was diagnosed We know it's personal it can't be a personal experience because personal experiences aren't a hundred percent reliable Well, they're not a hundred percent reliable, but they can serve. I just want to know what's justifying a hundred percent Sure, I know that's a great story that you're about to tell me no no no no So well where where I am is my my personal experience Not only affirmed but validated where I am. Okay now Does that mean that God exists in the greater strategy for everybody else that's where the question really does Starts to develop it's like just because I had what personal experience could that be unique to me You could have been absolutely correct that this God exists I'm just wondering what's justifying the hundred percent certainty if we get agree that a person experience aren't a hundred percent reliable because I'm Validating it with and this and this is what Christianity is based on I'm Validating it with the experiences of others around me. Okay group experience That validates the personal experience that I have okay group experiences that confirms that is it possible to have a group experience? That validates a personal belief and still be wrong about it. Absolutely, and that's where you've also got to that That's where you've also had to have some level of observation of people outside of your sphere of Connection believe it or not. It's not a hard question. I'm asking. I'm just generally wondering like I'm 100% confident. I should expect a hundred percent reliable method Can I show you an example sure if I had a coin and I flip it just come yet? This is completely separate put on the back of my hand. I don't know if it's heads or tails You know if it's heads or tails now that might be the best answer because I'm aware that my options are 50-50 My confidence on whether it's heads is 50-50 my confidence or whether it's tails is 50-50 because at best I can either be 50% confident either way what he's I could be a hundred percent confidence on a personal experience Does it really change the odds of this coin flip, but you won't hear something crazy? Here's what you here's what you know beyond a shadow of a doubt. Talk to me. It's one or the other it is 50-50 It's it's either gonna be heads or it's going to be tails Sure, would I be justified at a hundred percent if I don't have any other way? Absolutely, you'd be justified at a hundred percent. Tell me about that because what am I doing to justify a hundred percent in this coin flip Where I know I can I know the result will be a hundred percent and we can demonstrate that right is the foundation of Christianity is called And finally got to the faith so because that took a while because so I'm tired because because I Can't prove I can't prove to you that God saved me from cancer Okay, but I was the one that was laying in the hospital bed room a room on the edge of death when the doctors came in and said You don't have very long and then they switched right? Yeah, but I'm also the one has friends who have been through a similar experience Or that I've now seen somebody on TV took a while right? Yeah, but here's the here's the deal No, I have to believe I have to believe in faith that that person that's on TV had the same experience that I had if I'm Going to put it in the pool right of belief that I have that God exists a hundred percent So we know personal experiences enough group experiences enough you need to have faith you've got to if you don't have faith You can't get to the guy can't Personal experiences enough that a hundred percent group experience not up to a percent need faith to get absolutely can ask you questions Yes, what is faith? Well the definition is what does it mean to you? well Faith is Having the absolute belief in something or someone Without having enough proof Science without having enough scientific evidence To prove it beyond a shadow of doubt to prove it beyond a shadow it out Can I repeat that yeah having absolute belief in something without having enough proof scientific proof to? Know that that is the case. Yes, I Have I have faith that my son is not going to do all of his homework tonight I'd also say you'd have a reason what to face with that That's the thing can I can I have can I have if I put that point and I'm here Yeah, I have faith that it's heads. Yes, could I be wrong? Yes Can I have faith that it's tails? Yes, and I could also be wrong. Yes. How does having faith change? anything Faith doesn't change the outcome Faith Establishes where you are no matter the outcome. Okay fair enough so I could have faith in something be just wrong Absolutely, what's just the fun? I would hope that you'd want to be correct with this God Right if you're using faith to get there and you can believe in things that with faith and things that aren't true and faith and things That are true What's justifying the hundred percent certainty that you have faith in something that is true because you can have faith and things That are absolutely. So what does it say about as a mechanism? Can I repeat this yeah, what does it say is as a rely as a reliable way to know something's true or not? If I could have faith and things that aren't true What does that say about faith as a system? So you're actually in my opinion asking another question because It's very reliable faith faith for me doesn't determine whether something is true or not. Oh, man Then what are you doing to know that this is true that this God is true? You told me you're here because you know, it's true. You're confident that it's this tree What are you doing? What's the method that you're using if it's not faith? So let's and if it's not personal experience a group experience, let's adjust the syntax just a little bit. Yeah Saying that I know that it's true and believing that it's true aren't always synonymous. I believe I know Now do I know that do I know that there's got here? We go back to your coin flip. Yeah, do you know? I know I I know that either there's a guy or there isn't okay, right? Do you know and you combine this yeah in in my in my world? I Know that there is God based upon the things that we listed great if I I don't attribute any of you know to a hundred percent Certainly, I believe it to a hundred percent certain. I believe everything to a hundred percent because I can't I either believe it Or I don't believe right right, but you're confident that the gods true I am confident and you're using you're a hundred percent confident like as in you're beyond close-minded Yes, but you're using methods that aren't a hundred percent reliable absolutely Does that seem reasonable to you? Yes You know why why because if I'm wrong I'm wrong. What are the consequences of me being wrong? If there's no God and I die tomorrow What's the consequence? But if I'm right, and I die tomorrow What's the consequence so it's a gamble? No, it's not it's not literally a gamble No, you set it up as a wager by you by utilizing the door If I if I got nothing to lose right, isn't that what you just gave me the nothing no no no I didn't say I got nothing to lose out of what I'm because that for me because Because if you live you if you there are certain things that you don't do Because you believe that there's a god consequence. Yeah, because you believe that there's a God. Yeah Then and there ends up being no God then you short change yourself like an example like stealing a cupcake or something Yeah, if all I want to do is fulfill myself. Let's just say Let's say I want to go out and do something that's criminal car still car. Yeah, right. Yeah, and I really really want to do that Yeah, right, but I don't do that because I believe that there's a guy Yeah, and I believe he's watching me and believe he's judging me and believe it one day It will determine whether or not. Yeah, right Does there being less crying or someone not stealing car prove that a God exists? No does not prove it and then I'm still lost because I don't know what a hundred percent reliable way to know that a God But that's a reliable way for me not for you. Why? Why why not have the most reliable way that we're convinced everybody isn't this the most important question for you whether or not this God exists or is there a more important question on whether or not a God exists? There's more important questions than that. There's more important questions because whether or not this God exists for me to you for me an example from Is there absolute truth? That's more important to you than whether or not a God exists because because I already believe that God exists That's why it's not a question See, I'm not starting at ground zero. This is this this is over 48 years of experience This is over 48 years of interaction This is over 48 years of test and come back and test and come back your Humphrey's Prince confident that you're right right 100% confident that you're correct I'm 100% cool. I'm 100% Convinced that there are only two choices either exists or he doesn't I agree I'm also there too, but you also believe on to absolute firm certainty that it's the one of the choices Yes, okay, and I do it in faith and you do it in faith Do you are you aware what it would look like if you're wrong? Yes, what would it look like if you're wrong? Whatever it would look like to the people because I won't what won't be around What would that look like can you so you wouldn't be aware because you wouldn't be around wouldn't be aware So I asked you the first question that you will be aware what it looks like if you're aware So you don't know what it looks like if you're wrong No, only the people only the only the people who would still be existing would know that like, you know what? Karlin thought there was a guy so in short you wouldn't know you aren't aware of what it'll look like You're wrong if I am a hundred percent certain that I'm right But I have no idea what it would look like what goes wrong It's my hundred percent certain that I'm right just I mean I'd be justified, but it's validated I want you to think about that Yeah, because there's in my mind I can be open-minded and so believe in a God and have that be justified with like reasonable amount of evidence But there's no value in being closed-minded What do you think I do believe that there is value in standing on your beliefs I Believe there's a tremendous amount of value. Can't you do that open-minded? Yes, you can and sometimes Sometimes it can be a detriment. It's the biggest detriment being open-minded that you might change your position No, or what's the isn't close-mindedness a detriment in itself? Again, is it good to be the closed-minded? Is it good to be close beyond close-minded it depends on what it is really I'm close. I'm close. I'm close-minded on murder Murder's wrong. Well, it's defined as illegal. It's the illegal killing of a person still it's by definition illegal But what if the rules were different then it wouldn't be illegal and if it wasn't illegal What would govern your actions to keep from killing someone? Knowing that my consequences it benefits me not to kill people well, but you started with the word consequences and in that Consequences in that one wasn't that one of the words that I use with what were the consequences? But I'm open-minded if you can convince me otherwise Right, but in the meantime, you know, I'm still open-minded. Yeah, but in the but in the meantime show me a good case for murder I'll be like, yeah, I'm for it. I'm there. I don't want to be close-minded about anything right again I'm not talking about Killing under certain scenarios or I'm talking about murder. Yeah, like I'm open to it in Certain certain circumstances. Absolutely Despite the consequences, I'm open-minded to it. Generally. I have a position on it, but I'm open-minded if I'm wrong See, here's what we have the experience of living this life in this open Community that we have called the world We see the consequences of our actions on a lot of things. Yeah, right by close-minded people sometimes By close-minded people. What's the benefit of being close-minded? What value is it? You can protect yourself in society on certain things certain things see you're generalizing and saying that you know Close-minded and and that's what we are today What benefit gives you what benefit does being close-minded offer? If I'm We were talking about God, right? We're talking about the existence of God the belief that God is you know the Governance from on I if if I believe that there is also a set of Guidelines that he has given us to live by IE the Ten Commandments or something like that. That's not kill. That's not steal. That's not come in adultery Shouldn't bear false witness against your name where of them if I but if I believe that there is a God and that those are Guidelines that came from him that there are consequences for the and I'm close-minded to that There's Another way to live without consequences coming from those actions That can be a protection. Is it possible to not believe in God and also not want to kill people? Absolutely Why do you need to be close-minded about God to not kill but I didn't say you need to be close-minded? I also agree that you don't need to be close-minded. Why are you beyond close-minded? Because again because of my because of my experiences, okay, which we know are not a hundred percent reliable Okay, is that gonna have personal experience with okay? If you had had to be hot chicken here in Nashville, and you said that's it There's no better chicken in the world than had to be his hot chicken And I am closed off to anything other than had to be formed, right? Right, but what if you've had? Bolton's chicken and Prince's chicken, and then you've had some other but you haven't had everybody's hot chicken But you've had it you've had enough to say I don't need any more. Yeah, I'm good I have everybody. I'm straight. I won't know either way right, but I'm but I'm good I'm sure but you also have the ability you also again going back to your yeah No, it's a perfect example because I would say I'm good with this chicken I'm open-minded to the idea that there's better chicken out there, but I'm good here Okay That's that's a slight adjustment to what I told to what I'm saying. Yeah, I this is the best chicken for me, right? And I'm sure of it, but there might be better chicken out there. I'm at least open to it. I haven't tasted it So what you're what you do you're butchers thing what I was saying about personal versus collective, right? Collective you are beyond closed-minded Okay, but the collective but the collective thought is that there could be something other than God out there Are you open to that? I am not Then we're talking about the same thing I want you to think about a method that at least would be a hundred percent reliable to get to your Confidence But lacking that but why be a hundred percent, but my my goal is not to convince anybody else that God exists I would hope that your goal would be to be justified in your own beliefs, but I am justified in my beliefs But you have to demonstrate that but that's that's where we differ. I don't have to demonstrate it to anybody else I don't have that doing it because because we're talking about something that is personal here Isn't justifying by definition Explaining why you're justified because I can be justified in any belief how I just want to hold in my belief to myself Yeah, but that if it didn't require faith could I okay? If faith was not involved in the equation. Could I be justified that zero gods exists? Yes, absolutely. So if hear me out if that guy in that gray sweatshirt Here's me saying I'm justified that there are zero gods and you're saying I'm justified that my one specific God exists How can that guy figure out which of us is right? OTS someone asked for it His Only if he asked for that justification is it even something How can you tell which of us is right? Because I'm justified and you're justified in yours, but what can he do with that information? We wouldn't even go down that path because I would not come up get you to say I've asked Tyrone's wrong, and I'm right. No, no, no I need him to ask a car. What is your experience with God, and I would tell him Here's what my experience is with God and this is what proves to me that God exists cool Now you now you hear my you grace weather guy Go have your own experience right and then come back to me and tell me do you believe it whether you believe in God So and I'm open-minded so listen to both stories absolutely come to his own decisions See the problem here is And here's the thing We can't both be right if I if I say there's no God and you say there is a guy right like it's non compatible One of us if I had that position that there was no God and that's not my position one of us would have to be right And I'm looking for what that guy is looking for a reliable way to know who's right when they say that yes Because you're not the first person to come here and say I believe in this because I possess trust I've talked to atheists as well. Here's a difference. I just want a reliable way to get there And as someone says I'm a hundred percent reliable, but none of my methods are a hundred percent reliable And here it's the same problem that I get from both sides. Here's the beauty. Here's the beauty of Christianity It is not a one-way street. I do not have to sit here and prove that God exists God has to prove to me that he exists and he's already done it. I would like that and so That's that's why that's why I say if somebody comes to me I would say this is what this is my experience, right? Yeah You go have your own experience and come back to me and tell me did God speak to you Did God touch you did God did God provide for you? Did you feel some level of revelation is impossible or experience coming up Is it possible to feel like you've been connected with a God and be wrong? No So Hindus who have had spiritual connections with Shiva. Yes Vishnu They have connected with Hindu gods. They have connected with a deity. They've connected with their specific gods Yes, like how you connected with your seventh-day Adventists. They connected with their God of the Bhagavad-gita Seventh-day Adventism is just a vehicle God. God. God. God is God whether our seventh-day Adventist Baptist or whatever So so so God God God God is God not because I'm seventh-day Abbot seventh-day Advent is just having to be the comfortable vehicle that I choose So your God may not exist at all It may be the Muslim God or it could be the Hindu God you could be actually worshipping Shiva this whole time God could be a God is a deity if that's the case. Why are you a hundred percent certain about your own God? I'm certain that my I'm certain that my deity exists. Oh, so now we're on deity God God and deity are synonymous with me interesting because I asked specifically what the nomination and I didn't get deity I asked you what God you said Christian God. So I was like we're talking about the Christian God I so are we not talking about the Christian God anymore? So God is God our concept of God is based on our finite burn could be flawed could be flawed And we have a finite appear and we have you're beyond closed-minded that you're right. No, I'm beyond closed-minded that God exists deity exists the deity of God is here you're going. It's a little confusing for me The deity I like to think about this a little bit more. I can tell you I'm not absolutely convinced right now But I am open-minded if you have a reliable way to reach that conclusion And I'm more than happy to talk about conversation with you. Feel free to take a card Yeah, yeah, thank you. I really appreciate it. All right. Thank you. See you Cool. 40 minutes Yeah, OTF is a hard one. It's really really hard for me to throw out. But like by the time I do that, I'm just like oh He left his phone Sir, sir, is this your phone? Thank you so much. You're welcome Well, OTF is my favorite You're welcome and shout it out. Okay I think I'm bringing in a POV about this crazy Yeah, I'm fine Yeah