 because that's good. Yeah, someone literally just pulled up to my house as we're starting Tuesday Tea today. Hey everyone, welcome to Tuesday Tea. I'm your host, Leanne Calderwood, and I am joined today. So excited to talk today with Michelle Raymond. She has her own company called Good Trading Co and linked in pages is her shtick. It is her only shtick. And I got to meet Michelle on Clubhouse. I'm so excited that she decided to join us today here on Tea to talk about LinkedIn pages. Michelle, welcome to Tea. How are you? And I love this is what the part that they don't tell you about LinkedIn lives is anything can happen at any time and you just got to roll with it, right? And so well done you for just like sitting there probably dying on the inside carried on like a trooper. So it is my absolute pleasure to be here. So thank you for inviting me. I'm so glad you're here. And to be honest, my audience knows my dog because I have a YouTube channel Michelle. And in most of my YouTube videos, there's the dog sitting on love it. And I can't get rid of him. So Farley is a little famous. But he's also very protective. And so I think it was Amazon. I love it to go and check out what my husband bought on Amazon. So I'm free plug Amazon. If you're listening, sponsor the show next week. Yeah. Well, Amazon, you've disrupted my show. So we're going to expect some compensation for. Absolutely show. So Michelle, I kind of want to tell people how you and I met how our worlds collided, which it's not an unusual story anymore. But I met you on Clubhouse, which is such an incredible app for meeting like minded people, especially like minded people in different countries. Can you tell people a little bit about yourself, maybe even your LinkedIn background and literally where you are calling in from on Tuesday tea. Yes, which is actually Wednesday tea for me because it's 8am here in Sydney. So welcome from the other side of the world in the future. So I'm going to tell you it's a great day. I'm just getting started. I've had a couple of hours in the clubhouse room with Brenda Mella this morning, you know, talking about company pages specifically in the thought leadership branding, which is the club where we met, which is super exciting. So and Clubhouse is that it's just another place where you can have conversations where you end up, you know, taking them offline and, you know, opportunities like this show up. So Good Trading Co is my personal company that I set up around 18 months ago. And it was actually out of a position that I never thought I would be in. And so I was the general manager for a cleaning chemical manufacturing company. And as you can imagine 12 or 18 months ago when COVID hit, we were making hand sanitizer. We were printing money like you like no one's business. You can imagine, right? You guys have been through this on a whole other level. So we're making all of this money. But then I'm realizing that the person I'm working for, let's just say it doesn't share my business ethics on safety and, you know, making deals and, you know, those values didn't align for me. Something happened. I quit on the spot. That's it. I'm never going back again on the spot did not go back to the office. Like that is how bad this situation got. So fast forward 24 hours when you're sitting there all alone and quiet and you go, what have I just done? And then I go, oh my God, I am never working for someone like that ever again. You know, I had a trail of a couple of bosses that, you know, just didn't work out for me. I was the wrong fit, you know, as much as I loved my customers. And so what happens is I quit my job and at home all of a sudden, I don't have anyone around me. It's super quiet. And I go, oh, what am I going to do now? Now for me, I'd build up such a good reputation in the industry. I could have gone and got another job. But my partner, she said, like Michelle, like, why don't you work as hard for your own business and set up something of your own instead of putting so much effort into these other places and it's just not turning out. I said, but what would I do? And she's like, I don't know, you'll come up with it. So I went through this process and man was it a process where I was trying to come up with, what's the great idea that I could have that I could, you know, set up for good trading code, even coming up with a name was a challenge. So I set the name up and then I go. And then so what happens is here in Sydney at the time we went into lockdown. Now that has all kinds of emotional, you know, things that go along with it. I just quit my job like it was a winter, you know, it wasn't great time. I noticed that the industry had come from, which is the chemical industry. And specifically, I used to, you know, work with product development teams to make beauty products. You know, that was my job to sell ingredients to these guys. And I noticed that all of them had jumped onto LinkedIn last year because our trade shows got canceled, our industry events got canceled, our customer visits got canceled all overnight. What do you do when that happens to your business? And it happened globally, right? You guys had, you know, similar situations when you can't travel. So if we rewind, I'd actually already been using LinkedIn for around eight years for what I didn't know was social selling. I've since learnt that's what it was. Because when I turned up for my first job in that industry, and I don't have a chemistry background or science background at all, I just wanted to work for a big company. So I turn up and I say, okay, I'm ready to sell, you know, 20 years of selling experience, let's go. And I said, what do we sell? And they said, Michelle, like, it's your job. Like, here's your laptop, here's your car, here's your customer list, go. And I said, okay, no worries, I can do this, you know, first day jitters or that kind of stuff. I said, but how do I find out what we sell? Is it on the website? No, Michelle. I was like, okay, maybe there's an old school catalogue. Can you show me where that is? And, you know, I can adapt, I can do this. And they go, we don't have one. And I said, okay, but how do people know what we do? And they said, Michelle, that's your job. And I said, okay, let's rewind a bit. How many ingredients do we have? 10,000. Okay, so 10,000 ingredients to around 80 clients spread around the country. It's my job to tell them all. Yes, Michelle. Okay, is there a marketing budget? No. And we're talking about a company that's turned over a billion dollars, right? We're not talking a small operation, a billion dollar company, right? Because if you rewind into the industry, it was all around your little black book before the internet, you know, keeping everything a secret was, you know, actually your IP for growth. And so that mentality had come forward. So I just got my job through LinkedIn as we've all probably got a story along those lines. And so I realized just at that time that you could create content. And so I thought maybe I'll just share about these ingredients and it will be my opportunity to share a one to many, you know, so if I couldn't get around to see everyone, I could maybe post it there and they would see it and maybe they'd know what we did. And there was no method to my madness. But I developed that. And then I realized, if you just sell, sell, sell, it falls over, it's boring. Everybody wants that. And I, you know, again, I didn't even know LinkedIn training, social selling. I just recognized that I wouldn't want to just listen to the same thing day after day. So then I got a bit smarter and went, OK, how else can I be of value? And so I would look for industry insights like future trends, what was going on in the industry, any problems that would impact supply, you know, all of that and be the first to share it. So I then realized I had my own little mini channel. No one else was doing it. And I had all the attention. So then I had this great idea that if you do that, it's great to have content. But if you don't have an audience, it's pointless. It's like creating an amazing newspaper that no one buys. And so I established that you need relationships and to reach out and do that. So fast forward, I then took it to the next level. You can reach people that aren't local, just like you and I are having this conversation here today. I could reach the head of Unilever Research and Development in North America, Europe, anywhere in the world. If I sent a polite message and said, look, this is what I do. Do you mind if we connect? They would connect and I could have conversations that I can't even get into the local Unilever here in Sydney. Like I couldn't get access to them, but I found LinkedIn open doors so easily. And I'm sure the people that follow your show have struggles trying to get to the right person. And so, you know, if we fast forward, I build an amazing network globally in chemical slash beauty industry. And I still play around in that industry today, but over eight years I developed my system. So when everybody during lockdown decided to jump onto COVID, thank God I reached out to someone and I said, do you know with the posts that you're doing, if you just try this and this, it'll really help you get your reach. And she said to me, where did you learn that? And I said, look, I've been doing it for eight years. And then thank God the next question or the next statement, I wish I could learn from you, Michelle. And I was like, oh my God, I could write a training program for our industry. No one else is doing it. I've got the attention. So I went away and I wrote a training program. Okay, no problems. So then what happens is I go back to my clients and I say, here's my training program. You can do what I do. You know, you'll take over the world, get all of these new opportunities. This is the look. Oh my God, Michelle, how are we going to get that done? Can't you just do it for us? It was like such a desperate look. Thank God it was a desperate look because then I was like, and I'm going to let you on in secret and you can laugh at me if you like. What I said to them was, you would pay me to write posts for you. Yep, I didn't even think it was a job. Okay. I felt really old. And they were like desperately going, Michelle, we run these businesses, not particularly small, but not huge. We're already stretched to capacity. And then, you know, they were so stretched that that's how the company page management came into play. And then I realized what had happened was for the businesses that I'd worked for, I'd built up huge put my own personal brand. It was amazing. I had huge reach. When I quit and went to their competitor, I took it with me. And when I quit there and went to my other job, I took it with me. So as a company, it's a huge risk. And that's how I got into, you know, company pages. So I told you, it was a bit of a story. You know, it's long-winded, but it gives you a bit of a background into, I love selling. I love helping businesses grow. And a company page is something that supports personal branding and helps other people to get reach so that it's a tough market, right? It's hard no matter what industry. So yeah, I'd love to hear about some of the challenges in the hospitality industry that I think, you know, we might be able to help with here today. Yes. Well, and you've already hit on so many of those keywords and I've been writing down those keywords. You talk about the gatekeeper and hospitality professionals that are watching, you know, drop your questions or comments below for Michelle. Because you know what I'm talking about when we're reaching out to find the meeting planners and the event planners of the world, there's always a gatekeeper. And getting past the gatekeeper is so difficult, but LinkedIn opens those doors. All you have to do is know how to find them on LinkedIn and do exactly what you did and send that personalized message, connect with the person you want to connect with, and boom, now you've got access and attention. And you can do all of the great things. That's the thing, Michelle. You gave us all of these things that we should be doing in 10 minutes and now we got a breakdown. Okay, I know I should be doing it, but how do I do it? And one of the things you talked about is getting away from the hard sell. And this is now we're talking about the company pages in particular. And for the hotel industry, that is all the hotels have a company page. A majority of destinations around the world have a company page. So I'm not sure what it's called there, if it's Tourism Sydney or Destinations Sydney, but whoever it is, they're on LinkedIn and they have a company page. So now they've got these platforms, right? Basically a free platform. Can you talk to us about the content mix that it took you a few years to kind of develop and hone, but what does a content mix look like to move a company page from being to elevating the conversation? Because I see that being the biggest problem with company pages is it's a feature on LinkedIn and we should all have a company page, but we can't get to the elevating the conversation part as easily as we can when it's on our own personal platform. So I know I gave you a lot. I threw a lot of tennis balls at you. I just want to see what you had back with me. That's the stick with company pages and why your niche is so interesting because it's one of those features that what do we do with this thing? It's the same, but it's different and people struggle with it. Well, the really interesting thing is you need to look at the background of company pages. They probably came in originally to support career opportunities for companies to attract talent. So it's all related to HR solutions essentially just like I shared that that's the platform that I use to get the job in the first place. And so the history of LinkedIn has been very heavily focused. So once upon a time company pages were driven by HR teams and then the marketing team came in and they said, no, no, no, it's ours. Probably had similar thoughts to what I did some time back and went free advertising. Yes, this is amazing. No deal. Like, let's not do that people. I'm here to change that conversation. That doesn't work when it's all about me, me, me. Company pages go and that's why they've got a bad reputation because the content that was going out highly branded just looks like ads. And when it looks like ads in the feed all you do is you scroll on by because no one loves ads. That's why we're all on Netflix, right? We're streaming Amazon. We're streaming all of these services because the free to air TV has ads and no one's into them. Now the interesting thing on LinkedIn is I don't think anyone's super offended by them on LinkedIn. We're just so used to them and we just scroll on by and that's the danger for company pages is the more branded and the more corporate brochure they look the more people scroll on by. They're not offended, as I said, but they don't stop and have a look and see what you've got to say. So to answer your question how do we get around that? The evolution is now that we're seeing some company pages are actually taken over a bit by sales teams and marketing teams. That line's getting blurred and you hear terms like marketing come out because there's not really that clean line definition before because both teams have to help each other and the more that you work together and a company page is a great place where you can bring everyone together to work together. So let's talk about content. What kind of content works so that we move away from that side of things and LinkedIn actually put out a small business playbook which featured this strategy so I can't take it as my own but I can share it with you today and it's really simple to learn. It's called the three to one strategy. Pretty easy to remember. That's why I love it. So the three to one strategy is a total of six posts and my recommendation that I would add on top of that is to do those six posts if you've got the resources over the space of two weeks. So when I work with clients I'm only looking at doing around three posts on a company page if the main point being making sure that you're actually consistent so if you don't have the resources internally and you can't afford to send it out to a third party to manage for you then whatever the number is that you can manage consistently over time that's more important. So let's say ideal world you can manage the three posts per week we've got a six posts in total so the three to one strategy works like this three posts in the two week period are going to be high level industry trends sharing your company's insights into those trends any upcoming you know on a high level things that are going to impact your industry where you see the future of your industry so really that macro big picture type of level and that helps build your go to authority you want to be seen as you know what's going on in your space so in hospitality it might be you're across that events right now are moving into the hybrid space or sustainability is a big picture so you're going to share how your company drives into those kind of things so let's just say big picture nothing about you but you're sharing your company's knowledge on what's going on so you're ahead of those trends so once we've done that so big picture the two posts in a fortnight are what we kind of generally call the feel good posts and this is where your employees come into it and behind the scenes they're the two most most effective types of content that you can ever put out on a company page so you are literally going to grab your smart phone grab the camera and do some happy snaps right they don't have to be polished you don't have to bring someone in of course you want to reflect well on the company but they don't have to be let's all you know the you know pictures around a board room where everyone you've got one of every colour and one of every type of person and age and look at us we've got our diversity equity and inclusion done that doesn't work everyone just goes stock photo not interested keep scrolling but powerful super super powerful just those photos so let me know who's in the back office who is it that I talk to when I pay my bills who is it that has just celebrated their 10 year anniversary you know like who got promoted does your business support local charities you know it might be veterans it could be any kind of local community sports let us know what your company is doing more than your products and services so we call that just in general feel good stories you know that you can share so once we've done big picture we've then done feel good after that we're going to go into you get to talk about your products and services so that's one post per two weeks now when you look at it traditionally everyone's been doing every day you know multiple times always about the company and no one wants that you know think about what you would want yourself you know just my number one piece advice would you want to consume it before you press post on a company page think would you want to actually read that on the other side and so I get that there's a balance between the goals of the marketing team and building up corporate brands but and I'm only talking about LinkedIn okay so there's different ways that you tackle this for a website brochures you know other platforms this doesn't translate across I'm just talking specifically here today for company pages so three two one big picture feel good company products and services simple right good balance it's an incredible balance it's a balance I need to do a better job of and in fact I failed to do one and that's the Canadian in me most people do you know and this is what happens we do what we're taught to add value add value add value be top of mind be top of mind and the part that often people forget be it on company pages or personal is to say here's my product that I offer that you can buy from me that will solve your pain point and make it really clear so that people don't have to go and I had the same thing I still fall into that and what happens is I would go to an event where it was face to face when we're allowed out and I would turn up and everyone would say Michelle I see you on LinkedIn all the time yes high-fiving myself and then they go what do you do exactly and I was like ouch okay how you can do that is use a content scheduler even if you've just got like an Excel spreadsheet if you set one of the I've got one so if you reach out to me and ask where I'm very happy to send it over and share but if you schedule your content by the topics what will happen is when you're creating you'll be reminded hey I haven't done that and what will happen is it moves away from the I woke up today and I thought what will I post okay this field I like this this is what I'm comfortable in and so I'm just going to do more of that and so it's a good way to you know obviously make sure that you cover all basis because I want to know what I can buy from you at the end of the day it's no good saying you can solve my point if you don't actually connect the two dots it's so true it's so true so as a type A person I'd love to see your schedule or your Excel because I also have an Excel and other people have seen my Excel and they just they go buggy because there's so many colors for all of those topics you mentioned I also do the five content pillars on mine and the five content types like you should inspire and educate and anyways it's this very cultural which would probably create a lot of anxiety and people who just like a blank sheet of paper but I love that idea with having a content scheduler because you're right we just often wake up in the morning and we're like we got to put something up let's just put something up no rhyme or reason to it whatsoever and and then we wonder why it falls flat and I've been there I'm still there like we have we all have those weeks you mentioned something really interesting about the scrolling past like the what we perceive as being a company at in our own feed and you didn't use this particular word but I'm wondering if dwell time is one of those things that helps with engagement so if we're scrolling and we actually then stop on a company pages post and we start to kind of read does the LinkedIn algorithm pick up on that dwell time I know it does for the personal profiles does it work the same with pages? Absolutely so there isn't a separate algorithm for both so what applies to your personal page you know grabbing a hook line getting attention whether it's your first couple of sentences before we press see more it's a carousel post which obviously helps a lot with you know dwell time any of those kind of things that apply on your company sorry on your personal page also apply to your company page so don't run them separately don't run them differently the more personal your company pages and in a similar style to your profile the better results that you'll get now I have a lot of people especially if you've come from a marketing background there's a lot of resistance in that space because you know you're driven by building a brand which is a corporate image which has different sets of goals that they're driven by and I completely understand it and the argument that I have is I get it I know what you're trying to do but it just doesn't work and I know that because I've tried it across the pages I manage you know across all different industries and the same thing applies the second where you touch stock images or anything that just looks like that and is just run of the mill it all just dies you know and I'm out to get a message across to as many people as possible to drive their business goals so I'm driven by a different set of KPIs my own internal ones for them and I appreciate that that's not you know potentially going to align with what they do so it's about finding the balance and sometimes that could be just by using your company colors around as the border or having a small logo in a corner so that it's still front and center but it's not the main piece of the attraction and so there's little ways that we compromise but again making sure that your company is top of mind so that when people have the need to arise like a new event they don't need an event every day you know they need an event maybe once a year maybe twice a year maybe it's not till next year you know and they're just watching and observing and seeing what's going on out there we know 774 million people are on LinkedIn right now you know 60 million companies are on LinkedIn we know that your audience is there so it's up to you to put content that attracts them so that when they're ready to buy they're you know you're right they're top of mind and it works the same company page personal branding same same they work together so it's a one plus one equals three kind of scenarios the synergies between both that get you better results not I don't sit here and say forget your personal branding it's all about company pages no that's not the conversation I'm having I'm saying if you have a personal brand that's like really working and you have a company page that supports that and it goes backwards and forwards both help each other you get an amazing result better than either one of them individually could get so yeah and I appreciate you saying that because because that's something I tell my audience all the time so audience members I didn't pay Michelle to say that because that's kind of my branding in the hospitality space and LinkedIn in the hospitality space because that's the hill that I want to die on is hospitality hangs out on LinkedIn and I'm it's still convincing people that this is actually true and and that people should be creating a personal brand and putting it front and center on LinkedIn and now in particular that story into the company page there was something else that you said where was it here about the more personal the better the results the more personal the better the results so for an employee and let's again let's take someone from my industry let's say I didn't have a hotel sales manager so these are people who have a 10,000 square foot ballroom that they're trying to sell to a meeting planner for their convention how can they create some personal content for their company page to kind of reach those meeting planners you gave one great idea which again I've I hope someone does this and tags me in it I'm waiting for it is those behind the scenes photos and taking scenes are there any other kind of tangible tips and I know that you're not particularly in the hotel industry but even as someone who's sitting on the other side of a feed a LinkedIn feed what would stop the scroll from you if you saw the Marriott in Sydney kind of pop up on your page the things are if I'm in that frame of mind and that's I'm looking for a place you've got to stop and think get on the other side of the desk and think what is the person that that sales person deals with what are the problems that they're having so is the problem that right now they're concerned if I make a booking what happens to my deposit if we go back into lockdown for instance or something happens and that event gets cancelled because the world that we live in right now is pretty uncertain so I'm scrolling going I don't want to put down a $10,000 deposit that I'm going to lose if COVID or something other jumps in the way and I have to cancel it because right now I don't know if it's changed in the US but in Sydney they're on again off again and that's events is one of the spaces that's really under and hospitality in general has hugely impacted so I'm looking going what are you going to do if I have to cancel this or move it or change it so that's one of the concerns that's going on I then want to have a look and go at the service that I'm going to get so photos you know a simple photo that I think is show your team setting up a room for somebody else the attention to detail are the chairs lined up you know like I there's nothing more like all the OCD people out there shout out they will love seeing those chairs aligned a hundred percent you know like and the effort that you go to to make sure that that room is so well presented and show us the face of the person that made sure that it was bought on and create your hotel or your event space as the one that pays attention to details so you're the guys and again it's about creating a perception over time so it's not you're going to do it every day but over a 12 month period if someone sees that 10 times you know different stories around have a look at how the pens placed on the notepad have a look at how we make sure that the morning tea comes out on time here's how we make sure these things are in your event like this is our checklist all those little things that you take for granted that you just assume everybody else knows all they'd find boring you they actually they're the things that matter so if you go above and beyond I want you to share how you go above and beyond you know and that's part of the story that you're creating is a we're the best and only choice that you can make we are the ones that know what's going on in industry already hybrid event no problem here's our technology we've already looked into that and so there's so many different ways what happens you know we've got hand sanitizer out there or masks or you know whatever the thing is that's your concern for the people on the other side maybe it's the fact that you offer a full one stop shop so are you the kind of event place that can get my printing done do you organize some marketing you know for me are you able to promote the events on your socials like whatever is appropriate and I'm just kind of throwing some ideas out here and so there's all kinds of everyday things jump on YouTube have a look at unboxing and have a look at how many videos are on YouTube under the title of unboxing and that is literally just people opening up packages the more effort that the everyday and it is we're talking billions I'm not talking like one or two we're talking billions of people watch these videos and it's about the effort that you put in to that package so if you've got you know for instance if you've got a warehouse person or someone that puts together these packages and they make sure that it's wrapped nicely that it comes with a with compliments slip handwritten all those little things that you do to make a difference so that your hotel is the number one choice it's just about capturing that and sharing it and remembering not everyone has your experience and they need to come in behind the scenes and have a look we're sticky beaks we want to know like what do you guys do and that's how you create a perception of your hotel being something above somebody else's okay so you're not in the hospitality industry but you sure as well could be like you have just hit all of the things that like I said I want someone to film these things and tag me in them because these are things that I want to see these are things that my clients want to see so hotels I hope you're watching this because and testimonials don't forget the testimonials because we want to build out you might have them on another website you know like a hotel review site you may have them on Google reviews or other places in your local area don't forget to bring that social proof and bring it on to your company page as well again we know your audience is on LinkedIn that's undisputed there is no question that who you want is on LinkedIn so what we're doing is don't make them go looking for stuff you know if we're on LinkedIn don't send them here for a review don't send them here for this don't send them over there have it all in one place you know and like I said celebrate your stuff you know if it's an event planner that you have got one of the best in your city and you don't share about how amazing that person is and really celebrate and support them you're actually doing them a disservice because by building them up on the company page you can actually make life so much easier for when they may have a face-to-face or a phone call with that person so you know build up your team it's not just their job to build up the company you can really make their life easier and we're talking about closing sales like I don't do this just for fun as I said been selling for 20 years ultimately I am looking at what are the objections that my audience has before they want to book do they want the cheapest do they want the you know attention to detail do you know do they want booking flexibility whatever the thing is that your event so your hotel space or your you know event space is known for then share that you know and really create a story around it and that falls in with what you were saying about having pillars and making sure that you okay we are the premium space and everything we say is going to be driving a story around along that line so you know or you're the cheapest you know and that's fine as well or you're the most technically advanced you choose it doesn't matter which one it is just make sure that everything you put tells a story towards that and these storytelling pieces I we will jump off of this topic but these storytelling pieces and all these ideas that you gave us they fall into the three and the two quite well don't absolutely because they kind of sell themselves there is no offer at the end of that post it is basically here are our 12 sanny stations within them or here's how we use recycled paper or here's our recycling station we have a sustainable event policy we'll plant 10 trees if you book with us or you know whatever it happens to be that you run on or your point of difference that's the thing that you're going to create the story and it's not doing it separate you're right it's not additional content it's just the content you put out tells a story that takes people down that journey so at the end there is no other choice it is just so obvious that your event space is the go to like your top of mind you're the obvious choice because our values align and what you're offering aligns with what I'm looking for and so it's a no brainer so by the time they're on the phone to someone get you know show me the money like okay okay but now I now I'm going to throw the hard questions at you at least it's hard for me to wrap my head around the a word the algorithm so you start to create this engaging content and now you're in like you're in month number one number two you're doing all the right things what how does the algorithm showcase the company pages posts to the audience like how does that work do you see what I'm a question I get take that one and run with it Michelle because right yeah so and I will tag you in a post that I did recently on the algorithm to try and share with you know basically how companies can leverage off their employees to really have an advantage with the algorithm now in general you know in the news feed company pages are at a disadvantage if you scroll through I think someone said around 5% of the posts that you'll see in your feed are actually you know mostly company pages so you have to create good content now does that then say well what's the point Michelle if it's there no because when people are doing their research so I reach out to Leanne and then I go yep she's amazing really like her thinking about using them what's the company she works for I'm going to go research over here because we know 70% of the buying decisions done before they even reach out so don't think just because of the absence of likes and comments don't think that what you're doing doesn't pay off now the reason that I shared about the algorithm on a post recently is because what had happened was I had some company pages I managed we'll create content and all of the stuff we're supporting those posts by pressing the share button and you know just a hint to anyone just don't ever use the share button on LinkedIn for your own good just just don't it's false advertising but yeah but what we were able to do is actually train their 10 staff in this particular case that when we post that we would then get them all to engage on the post quite quickly within the first two hours now as a solopreneur you don't have that opportunity to be able to do it so it becomes a bit tricky but if you've got a team even if it's a small team of 10 LinkedIn doesn't say oh that's 10 employees not 10 randoms on the company page it just says 10 people liked it or three people commented it doesn't actually penalize you if it's your employees now I use the analogy of a wedding dance floor to kind of explain why this is important and you can laugh at me in a moment but basically if you think about it when we go on to anyone's wedding reception and they put the beautiful dance floor in the middle of the room where everyone can see and watch and it stays empty regardless of how amazing the music is right everybody's like bopping in their chair like I like this music anyone on the dance floor no not yet I'm just gonna sit here who's gonna go first and then eventually there's always that one person maybe they've had you know a bit more to drink than other people they get up right and once that person gets up everyone's like I'm not first I'm gonna go and join them and then all of a sudden everyone's on the dance floor and think about that with a post especially on a company page if your employees go first and they show the way it makes it a space where other people don't stand out and they feel more comfortable and so if your employees are there it also leverages off their personal networks and that's a strategy that we're always trying to do because most often a company page will have a fraction of the followers of what you know if you add up all of the employees you know they probably got 10 times more than on there often even more than that so you know how do you leverage lacking commenting will show up in the feed that these people if you scroll through you'll see Michelle like this Michelle commented this and you can see it through your own news feed and then that's how LinkedIn wants you to kind of go oh why did Michelle do that and so yeah they're just different ways that you can more people that wrote about the further and faster you go that's I love it no and you're right that is how I suppose the solopreneurs can see a little bit of growth is they just need a few people to like or comment and then it starts to show up in their respective connections feeds and such I want to revisit that comment you said about not hitting the share button because I did hear once that and we're going to the solopreneur example but I guess this could be an example for even a small hotel team that if you share a post from your company page onto your personal profile that that's one way of getting some engagement but you and I both know that shared posts don't end up in the home feed so are people getting bad advice what do you think is happening here look there's all kinds of advice on LinkedIn and you know LinkedIn specifically don't put a lot out there that actually says hey do this this is the best practice so in the absence of that you know there's a lot of this works me ultimately what you've got to do it's your responsibility whether you're a company page admin or a personal person posting it's your responsibility to review what you put out there see what works and doesn't work and change it accordingly and so it's never a set and forget it is always for my followers so you know part of the things that happens when I go to training with you know company page admins is that they say to me tell me what to do and I say I can't and there's this look like what are we paying you for Michelle I can prescribe what is best practice as we know it today but I don't know what works best for their followers in their industry with where they're at as a company I don't know what else is happening outside of LinkedIn that influences what's going on and inside so it's never quite that simple so I can talk about strategies around you know what if we're talking times of day or how often here are the things that you can check to see if it's working or not working but I'm not going to tell you post Tuesday Wednesday Thursday between 8 and 10 a.m because what will happen is and say take myself as an example if I follow the Google advice you know good old Google advice if I type in best time to post on LinkedIn it will tell me Tuesday to Thursday 8 till 10 or roughly right generally around those times if I post at 10 a.m. here I get crickets I get zero because I've got parents that are homeschooling I've got my US people who are switched off for the night my you know colleagues and friends that are in Europe based they're asleep so 10 o'clock is like straight down the toilet you know if I follow that advice now if I follow my own you know review and also always ongoing then I know if I wait till 4 o'clock in the afternoon you're at wakes up if I wait a few hours later then America wakes up and so I've got to be conscious of that now not everybody has a global audience but you just need for your local audience are they professionals are they up bright and early or are they night hours you have better success at 9 30 at night after everyone's days finished and they're just scrolling and hospitality can often work different hours to what you know the rest of us work so being conscious of you know maybe they have late nights and not early morning so waiting till middle of the day might be a better option so you know it's not a one-size-fits-all I would agree with you there and again thank you for keeping our industry in mind because we are such a diverse industry absolutely we are all over the map in fact you know if a hotel GM was caught being on LinkedIn and he's not working hard enough so you know that poor guy going to catch a break and and that's the trick you've got to have a company that supports it because and not everyone's on that same page not everyone sees LinkedIn as an opportunity and hopefully the more conversations we have like this we can change that view but there is a lot of you know trepidation from you know employees during those business hours it's not seen as a good thing that you're promoting the company and building your brand it's actually that you're what are you doing it's real work so I disagree strongly it is real work but I you know I just want to put it out there but it's not like that in every workplace no and you're right and but you you raised an interesting stat earlier we're now I say we like we own LinkedIn that's right Michelle and I we're at 774 million users we're at like the monthly active users is climbing climbing climbing every time I update a presentation I'm adding another million monthly active users it seems think though at last count it was 250 million active users here's a stat for you and I love this one and I don't know why it excites me so much but in 2020 which was last year COVID content creation on LinkedIn rose 60% I know right the competition for eyes on our stuff has now increased but people are consuming the content so it's this incredible blessing that people are creating more content because it will bring more people to the platform but now how do we make our content more riveting so that we can stop the scroll because there's so much that people now have to turn through through the scroll so I love that stat but here's what we're seeing in hospitality which is always fun is we're seeing the people that we've worked with for decades in in person relationships trade shows our industry has a ton of trade shows our industry we have more meetings about meetings than any other industry in the world I tell ya but we have these meetings about meetings and someone that we've been meeting in person with for 10 years will be on LinkedIn for the very first time so we're seeing that a lot we're seeing a lot of people just literally starting their LinkedIn profiles which is again fascinating to watch and so exciting for our industry certainly not alone I think there's other industries obviously that are jumping on the LinkedIn bandwagon but the chemical industry that I came from was exactly like the hospitality one why would we need that you know it was definitely always the view don't tell anyone what we're doing keep all of our secrets to ourselves protect the business it's completely the opposite to what we're talking about with social selling so it's been really amazing and you're right the numbers last year were incredible you know and it was just like a gold rush is how it felt it was like wow come over here and we know that everybody moved their advertising spending from Facebook and Instagram you can see 10 billion dollars worth of US you know 10 billion US revenue you know it's what LinkedIn biggest one they've ever had their high thriving good news is that means I think we're going to see more and more features rolled out and especially we're seeing them in company pages because guess what you need a company page to run an ad you can't run it from a personal page and so this is why I've gone so hard on them like six months ago is I stopped and I was like where are they going to make their money okay so HR solutions been around for 20 odd years done sales you know navigator done everyone you know it's kind of been around for quite a while you know it'll still keep growing where am I going to make my money from I don't want to charge the users that'll go down you know like a lead balloon what am I going to do ah ads that's where I'm going to make my money and they did it last year and so now they're cashed up and where do you know here's all the new features coming over to company pages you know so now I'm revisiting something you said at the top of the hour when you told your clients what it is that you do and all they did was had this glaze deer in the headlights look and they're like can you do it for us that's how I feel about LinkedIn ads I would love to get on that LinkedIn ad bandwagon but Michelle can you just do it for me because see I haven't played around with LinkedIn ads and the reason was I used to have an opinion that why would you need to pay for ads on LinkedIn and I've been in these clubhouse chat rooms with Brenda and also Joe Caruso who has the franchise info company page and he's had it for a long time and I've been learning from him and you know I actually did the LinkedIn has some three training courses that you can do which show you the insides of how company sorry how ads run I'll send you those links because it was amazing because I wanted to understand it and you know especially if you've got a product that's like you know good good size dollar value which I would imagine some events are probably fall into that category some of the bigger ones it makes sense to do paid advertising now what doesn't make sense is to do it if you don't understand what content works with your audience who your ideal client is who you're targeting so you do that work for free and again this is you know something I learnt from Joe so shout out to Joe but you do the work for free work out what resonates with your audience and then pay to do it at scale to you know and target those people so you don't just come on there onto a company page with 50 followers and go don't know who it's going to be but if I pay money that I'll have success and it doesn't work like that save your money if you would like to just feel like you're doing something send me some money I'll send you a nice photo I'll sign a card whatever it will be equally as effective so just be cautious before you go throwing money because it's not the cheapest platforms to do advertising it's you know relatively expensive but as the cost of doing business if you've got a decent size you know offering the product at the end it makes sense you know but just it's about making sure that you understand in detail there's 200 filters on LinkedIn add solutions of who you can target 200 so that's a level and you also there's other opportunities that you can add an insight tag onto your website and then that records any LinkedIn people that go to your website and have a look in the background it will actually use the cookies to track those guys and you can then use it as part of the marketing solutions to retarget them so there's some cool things to do in there I'm not anti them I'm definitely that's my next space that I want to learn about on LinkedIn because I think they're like company pages they have a targeting problem I used to say company pages had a content problem you know they just read like ads if they're a value do you care if it comes from me personally from my company page if it makes your life easier and solves a pain point that you've got you don't care where it comes from you just go thank you for solving that yeah I would agree and and you're right ads ads is a whole new world and to what you were talking about the entire T here is we're getting away from the hard sell we're trying to do the social sell so let's ensure that our ads reflect still that that energy and that corporate culture of giving giving giving and not doing that hard sell because again well you might have like a big yeah there could be like an idea that you're hosting a big event at your hotel and it makes sense that you want to reach and promote to more people that you currently don't have on your company page that you want to you know have a bigger wider network for a specific event that makes sense LinkedIn has some really great event ads that support those kind of things but again not just a spray and pray and really hope that if I just throw money at it something will stick that's not going to work but if you have a target in mind absolutely can be a really strong part of your strategy if your ideal client is another professional or another business one of my good industry friends Adam says love that minimum investment approach to LinkedIn ads thank you Michelle yes and Adam just started a new position over the past year with a great energizing company in the hospitality space so glad that Adam I also just want to highlight this comment here because this is from our mutual friend Roy who is also enjoying a morning tea he's also in Australia he's over here with me yes I can't wait to meet both of you I don't know how we're going to make that out can I tell you a funny story about Roy and I met Roy in the clubhouse room that I do with Brenda I think it was so I meet Roy in that room and we connect offline and then so we jump onto LinkedIn connect and Roy and I are talking and then I said oh we're about to you Roy because I hadn't quite looked into it turns out we are literally one suburb away from where we live so his office is less than five minutes from where I live and we it took clubhouse and people that set it up in the US for us to make like it is incredible incredible and that's the power of clubhouse you hear those stories all the time and I love it I love it it just well it's how I got to meet you and honestly one of the highlights of my year has been meeting you learning from you in clubhouse learning from you on LinkedIn and now I can say that now we've all had the opportunity to learn from you here on Tuesday tea Michelle you have given us so much stuff watch for a massive blog post y'all everything that Michelle it gave me and trust me I'll run it by you before we go public without Michelle and it'll have all over it but if people don't want to wait for the blog post how can they find you connect with you and engage with you look I would love it so first of all we can find me as Michelle J Raymond on LinkedIn and there's a reason I have the J initial in there to make it easier for you to find me there's lots of cool Michelle Raymond's I've won a really super popular name I've actually met quite a few of them and they are cool but I prefer you come and find me so I'm the one and only Michelle J Raymond I also have a company page surprise surprise called good trading company and that's where I specifically you know share tips to tips tricks and strategies for company pages so whether you're a page admin a business owner looking to get the most out of LinkedIn and company pages specifically then come across to that page and I can you know I'm always happy to help out so I do things like audits and strategies so if you have no idea where to start rather than spend eight years trying to work it all out like I did why not just come and spend two hours with me and I can give you a crash course and set you in the right direction and that can often be you know you will get there eventually undoubtedly I don't believe I'm any smarter than anybody else I've just had more time on the platform to make the mistakes and learn from them so I also obviously do company page management so if you are that person that goes oh my god there's no chance I can fit that in but I know I should right so I'm not in the business of convincing people to use LinkedIn or company pages I am in the business of those people that go I know I should but and they're the ones that I can help so if you're one of those persons please reach out that'd be awesome and if you do nothing else peeps you guys have to check out Michelle's page because she does a couple things that I've harped on she does them really well and that's your banner or the background photo whatever people want to call it the billboard her billboard is phenomenal like you will chuckle when you see it and she does a really interesting cover story so this is a very unique cover story so if you're looking for cover story ideas Michelle's got an incredible little cover story on her LinkedIn I never thought that cover story would get me the attention that it has do not underestimate those cover stories like I never in a million years thought my silly idea that I was just like I was like I can't make a video I'm going to do this so go and check it out on my you can find it if you go to my Michelle J. Raymond profile and click on my photo that's how it will play go and do that with the sound on it doesn't work so well if you don't have the sound on so let me know in the and what it does Michelle is it goes back to what you have said throughout the T is that it's not a one and done and it's not a one size fits all we should all be testing testing and retesting different things on LinkedIn and so you've done a great job of that and and I'm a big believer in that so I'm hopeful that people will check it out to get some inspiration for their own story as well and this was so much fun but I always have fun listening to you it's never it's never a dull moment in Michelle's world she makes company pages fun they're cool nobody wants everybody needs one and now people are like shell says they're awesome she's pretty excited about him maybe maybe there's something in this and even to the point where LinkedIn's now approached me to be on like this small business advisory council with the pages team so I get all of the new features first and I get to say what works what doesn't work how they can be improved and there's only like six or so maybe seven or eight of us around the world so out of 774 million people they said we want you and so I'm super excited about that so that's how much I love company pages that LinkedIn actually went what she love you know so yeah it's pretty cool I'm pretty chuffed about that I think I should be paying me and for the record they don't I think they should be paying me because in just six months the conversation has changed so much around company pages and I even had someone my very first podcast you know that I went on with someone else back at the start of the year commented on a post of mine yesterday so I went on there and it was all a challenge around why company pages were a waste of time fast forward now and he actually said yesterday on a post of mine everybody needs one and I was like what is going on build it what I'm saying is it will take you around six months before you get an interaction do not give up too early like keep on going so you will thank me for it this has been a fascinating dialogue thank you so much for joining me for afternoon tea slash morning tea in your world I would love to have you back so let's talk about that you know where to find me I do I do well I'm looking at you right here so Michelle thank you so much friends if you're watching this on replay continue to drop your questions into the comments and here's why I'm going to be checking the comments and I'm going to be firing these questions over to Michelle so continue to drop your comments and questions into the chat even if you're just doing this on replay we're staying on top of it we want to make sure that you have the resources you need to take the next step on your company page Michelle Jay Raymond thank you so much for joining us cheers thank you all for joining us Fanny Sonnell Roy Adam thank you so much Gillian I can't forget Gillian don't forget Gillian I can't wait she's going to when there's an event that you're someone in your industry is hosting and I'm allowed off this big island they call Australia and it's in Las Vegas I want an invite whoever you are out there that's listening I want an invite to an event held somewhere in Vegas called Next America happening in November so but you guys there's always been great supporters Adam especially you my friend thank you so much for joining us today folks we're back in two weeks time for another episode of Tuesday tea and until then have an incredible end to your summer thanks again to Michelle Jay Raymond with Good Trading Co and her session on LinkedIn Company pages have a great evening or day we'll see everyone soon bye for now