 Good afternoon. Welcome to all the alumni who are joining us today for this third Thursday's conversation. I'm Jeanine Berchie Johnson, director of alumni, as well as other positions at MBS, and I'm very glad you've joined us today. Just a couple of housekeeping details before we get started. If you would like to introduce yourself using the chat feature, please tell us who you are where you're at when you were at MBS. And remember to send that to everyone, not just the panelists. And if you have a technical concern at any point during this webinar, just send a chat message to the AMBS webinar host. If you have a comment or question for our speaker, we ask that you use the Q&A feature and you can find that by hovering over the bottom of your screen and I'll be watching for those questions and comments. And I'll select the ones that I asked Melinda. Please note that the webinar, including questions is being recorded. Turning now to our conversation. Melinda Elizabeth Berry is associate professor of theology and ethics and director of the faith formation collaborative. Melinda joined the AMBS faculty in 2014. She received her MDiv degree from AMBS in 2001 and her PhD from Union Theological Seminary in New York in 2013. Before coming back to AMBS, Melinda taught at Goshen College and Bethany Theological Seminary. Melinda is going to start by answering several questions I have given her, and then after that we'll have time for your questions and comments. Melinda, thanks for joining us today. And I have to tell you, yesterday my Facebook memories reminded me yesterday was 10 years since you were announced as a new faculty member. And I just wanted to congratulate you that that came about yesterday. So what would you like to tell us about yourself as an introduction? Yeah, well, Janine, I don't spend as much time on Facebook as I used to or as I might. And so I didn't have a chance to be reminded of that milestone. So Janine, thank you for remembering, jogging my memory around that. Let's see. Well, one of the things that I'd like to start off by saying is that it's been a really meaningful experience to be at AMBS in this kind of period of transition. So 10 years ago when I arrived, I was on faculty with people who had been my professors. Danielle Scapani, Ben Olinberger, Mary Shirts, Lauren Johns had been in the role of Dean at that point. So it was really, it was meaningful to work with them and then be part of that generational changeover. So that now at this point, in terms of the regular faculty who show up at faculty meetings, that's a completely new group of people. And at the same time, I'm also joined by some people who had, who had been my classmates at AMBS, Jackie Wise-Roods and Rachel Miller-Jacob specifically. So that's just been, it feels like, you know, the circle is turning, the wheel is turning, and there's continuity and change, and that's been a great thing to be part of. And personally, what would you like us to know about the things you enjoy doing and how, yeah. Oh, let's see. So, Oh, and you know what, Jeanine, you were at AMBS when I was a student and you're, you are like, I don't, I'm sorry that I failed to remember that too. But at a personal level, so my, I'm married and I have two kids who are, let's see, they are six and 10 now, time flies. And so that's, like Jeremiah, one of the ways I can keep track of how many years I've been at AMBS is because he had his first birthday alongside my appointment. And so I can keep track that way. But yeah, so family life is something that certainly keeps me busy. Although this semester, in conjunction with one of the classes that I'm teaching, I have invited students to, and then I'm including myself in this, I've given myself this assignment to, which is to have a regular Sabbath practice. And I was kind of inspired by Tawasha Kym Yoder, one of our students, to include this, and it's in my practicing and embodying non violence class. And so that has meant that I've also had a chance to get back to some of my knitting, which is something that I have. I've enjoyed doing over the years a lot. And, and my knitting practice has sort of fallen away so I'm looking forward to re initiating that and then I also have a variety of kind of community investments. One of those that's been a lot of fun and pretty meaningful is that I, along with Darren short and co chair of the board at Maple City Market, which is a cooperative grocery store here in Goshen, which is where I'm based now. And so it's been great to have that be a kind of outlet for some of my interests around environmental stewardship, which is another thing that, that I get to, there's like wonderful crossover with my work at ABS around that kind of work too. So those are a few things keeping up with my kids and my family. Oh, playing board games is something that I also enjoy doing knitting and providing community based leadership around food sustainability issues and questions. Wonderful. And I must note you also have brought color to AMBS. You love color. I do. I do. It's, it's true. So I wore my most colorful shirt today in honor of you. Well, and, and you can't quite see it but the fabric of the curtain that's behind me. It's monarch butterflies feeding on milkweed. Wonderful. And, and all different colors and, and patterns and things like that. Yeah, yeah. Well, okay, and on the on this along these lines, I also have to give props to Marlene prop, who would often dress with the liturgical, the colors of the season. And, and that kind of inspired me I don't dress with the liturgical season as much as like I have. Each of my classes has a color. That's that I, because I'm a big color coder and then I wear that color when I teach class. So, so that that has meant needing to make sure that my, you know, I've got, I've got the resources in my wardrobe to keep up with my color coding system. I had not noticed that you were the same color for each of your class, each class period. So that's awesome. So I'm wondering if you can tell us a story or two about when you experience God in a powerful way. This has been one of the meaningful questions that I've asked everyone from our faculty, and I always look forward to hearing the story so what, what would you like to share. Yeah. So of course you shared that question with me earlier in preparation for this and so I've been, I've been thinking about that and, and curious about that and what like what what experience would sort of rise to the surface for me. And, you know, I think there are several experiences that I could, I could point to, but maybe the one that I'll, that I'll share about in this setting and in this context was something that actually happened just last semester. I was teaching a class that is a, that was a, it was kind of a new, a newer course. We've, we've worked as I teach in the, in out of the history theology and ethics department HTE theology and ethics as Janine's already mentioned. But we've been doing some curricular revision there and, and trying to figure out what's the right constellation of course content that we want to make sure our students get across the degree programs that we offer. And so we've developed kind of a new course that combined content from two different classes. And so it's called peace theology Christian ethics and peace theology. And, and when I teach this particular class well all my classes actually we sit in a circle and I use a modified version of circle process as part of my, my approach to teaching the part of my pedagogy I guess you'd say. And I also like using name tags was this might seem like a funny or strange thing to be doing in a seminary class but, but it, it, well, especially in this case, it provided a really unique opportunity for yeah I think for God to show up in a powerful way. So on the name tags, I include students first name and their last name it's also a way for students to get to know each other this was a blended class. So, I also had some students who joined us by zoom, and, and then we have these little placard name cards that then represents them in the circle so that we don't have to worry about Oh right people on zoom know they're like they're embedded right there in our circle. And on the first day of class. You know, I asked like students were sort of joking about these name tags and they weren't used to seeing that and, and so I invited people to tell us about their last names. And one student said well like what you know why would we, why do we need to talk about that. Well, it, one of the things that I knew from my experience of being with a really international student body at a BS as a student is that in places like Indonesia, they don't have last names or use last names in the same way we do in North America. And that was one student from Indonesia in the circle. And I also had learned having students from Ethiopia that that similarly there they don't have like their naming conventions are very different. And there are several students from Ethiopia in the circle. And so they, you know, they clued right into why, why we were going to have this conversation. And as we went around the circle, we heard some really interesting, but also deeply powerful stories about identity. And that ended up being kind of a theme throughout the rest of the class. But after, after hearing those stories, you know, I, I thought I was going to need to make a link between, well, what do last names have to do with Christian ethics. But one of the students just kind of spontaneously as part of the discussion and conversation, like made the exact point that I was going to make. And this, this underscores one of the foundational principles of circle process, at least in the way I was introduced to it, that there is wisdom in the room and in the circle that is greater than any of us can bring as individuals. And so, and so this, this deeply intercultural conversation where people were being vulnerable, where, because in the following week, that was, you know, kind of my check in question was, what do you remember about our discussion from last week, like what, what has stayed with you. And the students from the three students from North America, actually, yeah, yeah. One of them had been was born in Canada, and the other two, actually one had been born in Brazil but has lived his adult as an adult in the United States, and the other was also from the US talked about how humbling it was for them to realize how many of their classmates were using names were going by names that that they were kind of forced to use to participate in our educational system in the United States, and isn't actually the name that they use in their home country and context. And that that that was really sobering and humbling to learn that, and taught them to like a new way of being curious about other people's experience of coming to this country of engaging with people across cultures. Anyway, it just, it just felt like something more about the people of God and what can happen when we gather and and hold our kind of our Christian commitments and our desire to be Jesus disciples at the center of a circle. So it's a long answer but like, that's, that's what I think that's the thing that came to my mind most clearly when I. Yeah, when you asked me that question today. Yeah, that's so powerful. And what a teaching moment to for everyone. Yeah. So, another question that I ask everyone is what attracted you to be part of the ambias community and for you that has two parts first as a student and then as a faculty member. Well, so, I'll start with the second part. First, that is, I was attracted to coming to ambias as a faculty member in large part because of my experience as a student. I do think of ambias is kind of one of my intellectual homes. And, and having spent time in other parts of the theological Academy. I wanted to be back at home, right, would be one way to say it. And, and it went well and like my appreciation of home was deepened by having had these other experiences that taught me some things that I of course bring back with me. But, but yeah, you know it's kind of like Dorothy says in the Wizard of Oz there's no place like home. But to go to the first part of the question what attracted me as as a student. Well, and I don't know if I ever told you this story but I so so I had been tapped on the shoulder in college encouraged to consider seminary. I had done the ministry inquiry program. In college, and in fact, had been a one course students, I asked one year as a Christmas present this was after I between, I, you know I had several gap years between college and, and kind of the next thing. And I asked as a Christmas present for one class at ambias and so I took ecclesiology with Gail Gerber Coons and I was like, I am never going to seminary. And that's my response to that experience. I, you know, I mean, hey, like, I was a young adult so I could, I always reserve the right to change my mind to. So, so I ended up moving to Washington DC and working at a nonprofit organization. And I was working it was just like an entry level job I was the administrative assistant in the development division. And part of what that meant was when we were doing direct mail appeals. It was my job to wrestle up the, the, the volunteers and staff and go to the conference room and stuff envelopes. So we're stuffing envelopes. And I saw some names that I recognized I was like, Oh, I know that I know those people it was Willard and Mary Swartley is one of the names on the. I also John and Pauline Fisher, Russ and Marge Lyfty. And I was like, Oh, I know all these people and and the folks I worked with were like, how do you know that you know them. Like, we've got thousands of letters and envelopes were stuffing here and I was, you know, and I was like, Well, now Lillard and Mary live next door to my aunt and you know I was, I was explaining like I actually know these people. And, and that was surprising to the people I worked with that. I think experience helped me understand how unique or special this community was that I came from, not just that that like I knew these folks and among the thousands of letters that are going out. But that I actually came because the the nonprofit I worked for was was part of the nuclear disarmament and peace movement that I actually came from this community that was committed to nuclear disarmament and a peace movement and challenging the national logic of defense spending in the United States was like that was unique among the people I was working with people who I looked up to. And, and so to discover like I had this kind of gift. And so I started coming from this community kind of started sort of, you know, that that started working on me. And I ended up working for this organization a little over a year, but it was kind of in that next six months or so that I realized, you know, I do want to go on to graduate school. And so I was, I had several options that I was considering from museum studies to American studies, which is like an interdisciplinary humanities program and seminary. The seminary was the thing that sort of tugged tugged at me the most, because I wanted to better understand the contours of kind of men and I peace theology, basically. So that's how I ended up at AMBS. That's wonderful. Yeah. So the next question I want to ask you is about the courses you're teaching but before I let you say that I just need to say to everyone yesterday I asked one of our students what have your favorite courses at AMBS Ben. And without much thought, they just blurted out anything Melinda has taught. What do you teach Melinda and tell us tell us about at least the courses you're teaching this year but if there's others you want to highlight as well. Just give us a brief glimpse of what's part of each of those courses because you really do teach a lot of fun courses. Yeah, so well and the courses that I've taught have changed over the over the years, but my current sort of I describe them as my portfolio of courses my current portfolio of courses includes a range of both introductory courses and then more advanced electives. So at the introductory level, I teach this Christian ethics and peace theology, which is, which is it is the successor to what had been thinking ethically, and, and then we used to have this systematic theology sequence Christian theology one and Christian theology and Jamie Pitts taught Christian theology one, and I taught Christian theology to so so we've we've sort of rearranged that a little bit and Jamie now teaches kind of more advanced theology course and an abaptist perspective. And so, so I teach this Christian ethics and peace theology as a way of introducing students to both theology and ethics because that's one, one of the things that I would definitely say having engaged in theological conversations in a variety of places that is, I won't say unique but certainly a special part of how an abaptist men and I do theology and ethics is that we really, we really keep those deeply integrated you don't. It's hard for us to separate theology and ethics. So this course does does a lot like it sort of explains that and Oriens that Oriens our students to that unique part of our tradition. And then another kind of introductory level course that I teach is, well I guess now that I think about it. If the course number 500 or 600 is an indicator, most of the classes I teach with the 600 level but a course that I'm teaching this semester is called practicing and embodying non violence. This is a course that we developed, especially for our peace studies students, but it's open to to anybody to take. And this offers students a kind of framework for thinking about. I'm not just thinking about but but sort of integrating the practices of peacemaking and peace theology and I would say kind of the spirituality of non violence into their lives and in both practical and intellectual kinds of ways so we work at the knowing doing being integration. And, and so this also then becomes a place to orient students to a MBS is legacy of peace theology how peace theology has been as an intellectual project been a prominent part of a MBS is life as an institution. And then it's also it's also an opportunity for us to talk about some of the failures of men and I peace theology over the decades, and, and then my particular, I guess twist, I would say that I put on that as as I think of myself as kind of like a third generation is bringing social emotional learning into into the conversation so this gets us at kind of psychology and spirituality, as much as it gets us into biblical hermeneutics and kind of Christian social ethics. Then the other again the elective arena I teach a class called church and race which is a class that I inherited from Gail Gerber Coons. And this was a course that she had developed as part of a MBS is kind of initial commitments around and to do anti racism work that came out of the Damascus road process that started when I was a student. So that's been, it's been a that's been a significant kind of thing for me to receive and continue. I also teach a class called suffering and hope, which looks at questions of evil and what what has traditionally been called the Odyssey, how like why do God, why does God let bad things happen to good people. To use the, the, the, there was a book, a famous book written by that title, and then we out but then we also look at eschatology and so I like teaching that class in if whenever I can in the second semester because that we get into lent and Easter, along with the, the, the change of seasons from winter to spring as a way of thinking theologically and ecologically about a lot of that that symbolism that's been especially important to Christians in the northern hemisphere. I teach a class called earthkeeping which had been creation care, of course that I inherited from Ted Coons and he at different points co taught it with Luke gosh show. And so earthkeeping is, is a way of kind of advancing some of that conversation because in the decade since they originally taught that class we've learned a lot more about the change in climate. And we have students who are coming in with a lot more sort of working knowledge and awareness and are ready to take their commitment to environmental stewardship to a deeper level. And let me think here for a moment. Oh, I also teach human sexuality and Christian ethics another class that that's been offered for many years at AMBS. And, and this, this has been the course like it's it's not necessarily a challenge for me to teach but like of all the classes that that have come to me to teach this would be the one that I would have chosen or would have been like the, at the bottom of the list. Not because I'm squeamish about talking about sex and sexuality, but because of how complex the terrain is around that conversation, but it's also been really rewarding to watch students come to that class saying you know I'm in this class because I grew up in a community or in a congregation that did not talk about sex and I want to figure out how to change that feeling leaving feeling more empowered but the other thing about that particular course that it teaching that class has given me a chance to reflect on personally is that that oddly enough, I came from a congregation that I didn't realize it until I needed to teach this class, talk to a lot about sex and sexuality. And, and prepared me in some ways that again I haven't really realized to offer students like well here's here is a way that you can address some of these issues in some really powerful ways and and gently break through cultures of silence and congregations. So, yeah, so that's kind of, that's what I'm up to these days in the classroom. I think I got all the courses, and you don't teach all of those every year there every other year. Especially in the electives. Yeah. Yeah. And then, on top of your teaching load you do some administrative work do you want to describe that briefly. So I, several years ago I had my turn being department chair. But now I, we're glad to have Joe lifty or hanging around and, and doing some of that work for us. But now I am the director of the, the faith formation collaborative as you mentioned in the introduction, and this is what used to be the center for faith formation and culture. Oh, I guess it's been a little over a year ago, like maybe 18 months or so ago. Bev lap our dean worked with others in the ad cabinet to develop the center for faith formation and culture to kind of revise it or revision it a little bit and expand it because where it just it did have one faculty member with dedicated when Andy brew Baker Kater was part of our faculty. This, this reformation brought two of us on board so for for a year Andy and I were both in the faith formation collaborative. He continued to have a particular focus on youth. And then part of what my job was to do is to kind of figure out how we expand the focus of the center now collaborative to reach across the age span. So, so part of part of my administrative work there was to participate in a review of the existing programs that have been part of the center. And then start thinking about what other things we wanted to add to our work in the collaborative with with more people power and and so we worked to wrestle up some more resources. And in this past year working on it so I worked with shanna PG Boshart to develop a grant proposal, and we were also helped by am BS student and professional grant writer Dave Johnson who gave some invaluable advice and encouragement. So, yeah, do you want to news that I think we're still, it hasn't even really been shared with the alumni much yet so tell us what came of that. So, so the Lily found date of the Lily endowment. Had lots of oodles and oodles of money that they needed to to give away and or share with with communities in different ways. And so they initiated a second round of their thriving congregations initiative. And so some alumni were on the receiving recipients of some of like that first round of by thriving congregations grants, and so they, they kind of building on some of the things that people had learned out of that bill and their prize Lily said hey let's let's keep, let's keep working on this agenda. And what they were particularly interested in was in the put in the request for proposals is they wanted to they want to their interest Lily is interested in helping congregations to do three ways to do three things. One, adapt to their changing social and cultural context recognizing that that we seem to be living in a time where change, the face of change is pretty, pretty rapid is moving at a pretty rapid rate. Secondly, to gain clarity about their values and mission and this in these rapidly changing social and cultural know you what they find themselves in. And then thirdly, cultivate Christian practices that deepen the faith of their congregants. So, these are things that are deep interest to us here at ambs and within men and I church us say in men and I church Canada. So we put together a proposal that we were successful with and so we received just under 1.25 million and it's a five year grant and so so that's, that's the amount that we have to work with over the next five years. And I can, I can talk a little bit more about the nuts and bolts of what it is it that's going to be in our project but but I do want to quickly say here that this funding is making it possible for us to hire two staff people. One at full time and then the other will either be half time or three quarters time to work in the collaborative, which were, which were very excited about. But the other thing that we're excited about is that during this five year period, the program that we develop which is which has several parts and it has to do with helping congregations practice discernment. We can also invigorate Bible study through a process called confessional Bible study that Mary shirts and others at ambs developed through some other Lily initiatives and in the past. So I'm super excited about confessional Bible study because I think it is most amazing thing before or after sliced bread. And I'm not just saying that because Mary shirts is on this webinar, but I am saying it because Mary shirts is on the webinar. So, so we'll be putting together these congregational cohorts or groups teams that then connect with other congregations forming a network or a learning community of congregations. And, and we're super excited about this. So, so if you out there in our alumni network have people who you think would be good for these positions that we're going to be hiring for. Or you're in congregations or no of congregations you think would be really excited and benefit from being part of this learning community. So I'm happy to feel free to reach out to me. But yeah, so Janine should I go ahead and say a little bit more about the particulars of of what our project is going to do. Well, I think. Yeah, just a bit about what what you're hoping what I know things are still needing to be developed. Well, what what we what I can say that we put into our proposal, as I've already mentioned is this process where congregations develop teams the teams come together into to form cohorts, and then the cohorts go through essentially a four step process for stage process. And the first is working in their congregational settings to understand their context. And what that means is we're going to be teaching we that is folks folks at the seminary and probably also some some of our alumni. I think the reality is we're going to need to to pull together from a range of people who are interested in this in this kind of to help make it happen. But the seminary sages are going to provide the congregational teams with tools to figure out what it means to read context, and we'll be using information that you can get about your watershed about census data about your context to help congregations tell a story of their congregations in their context, and then figure out and ask questions about how much the, the makeup of the congregation is either similar to or different from the makeup of the place where they are themselves. And then, because part of part of what this is is oriented around is helping congregations tell a realistic and truthful story about who they are, because it can be very easy for us to tell nostalgic stories about our congregations right. So, so how do we, how do we kind of peel away some of the pink lenses, you know the rose colored glasses to sort of be honest about where we are and how our congregations are weathering these, these seismic changes that have been happening over the last decades. Then the second part is involved involves engaging the Bible, and teams will come to campus and because of the grant funding will be able to support their travel right for a multi day training in the Bible study, which is a process of engaging the text, artful response and worship how do we, how do we do all of these three things together, remembering that we engage the Bible because it's our sacred text. The life of faith depends on having a living relationship with this scriptural text this ancient text. And then the third, and so then teams will be equipped and ready to design and lead their own Bible study process and their congregations, especially kind of in light of the context, and the contextual story that they're, that they are now able to tell and share. The third part of the process involves helping the teams harvest the fruit of their contextual analysis and their biblical study, right. And once they've kind of collected this information, it will allow them to engage in a congregational this is the fourth part a congregational discernment process. Okay, so in light of all the stuff that we've learned about ourselves about where we fit in the world, and how the Bible informs our perspective on these things. What does it look like for us to be good news in this place where we are. Right, and, and so we'll also have some money set aside to, to make kind of seed grants to help some of these congregational initiatives get off the ground so I'm pretty excited I mean it's a lot of work and it's, but just talking about it, you know I get excited and, and, and people really want to hear about what we're doing. So hopefully that's for sure folks who are in the webinar to. Yeah, it's, it's super exciting. I'm so glad to hear more about it. Well this. This might be a better time to just ask if you have a particular dream for ambias. I obviously this is one of those dreams is that we are part of revitalizing congregational life and Bible study and all that but are there other dreams you have for ambias. You know it's so interesting you asked that you mean because, yes, I do. And, and it's, it's like, well so I'll just, I'll just paint a picture so when when. So I was born and raised in Goshen and lived in other places but, but when I would come back and visit. Especially in the summertime, I started noticing this quilt garden tour. I don't I think there's a group maybe in Middlebury that does this and. And so sometimes the quilt gardens are, you know, like plants, or the quilts are kind of plants in a symmetrical shape. And sometimes there are these murals right that hang in different places but you know the idea is that that people can follow this tour and see these, these different landmarks. Well, I got inspired after reading about this story telequilt that Sinitha Nilsab and Terry Geyser developed a community, Mennonite up in Markham. And, and, and it was so is this congressional partnership between community and Highway Avenue that created this. It's so it's this amazing powerful story, which then is also connected to work that that Terry and Charlie had done in Columbia. Using storytelling, fabric arts to do trauma healing work. And, and then when we when my family originally moved back to this area we were living in South Central Elkhart. And so I became acquainted with the way Jason Schenck was doing and others at what had been the Prairie Wolf Collective were to would take people on a walking tour of people doing a people's history of South Central Elkhart. Learning about how systemic racism shaped the life of the community, and, and then kind of inviting us as Mennonites to reflect a little more critically about well what is how, how, how are we part of the problem. How are we part of solutions of making South Central Elkhart, a healthy and vibrant part and to bring life and thriving to those neighborhoods. So, so then I kind of got it in my head. Wouldn't it be interesting to do like an alternative storytelling quilt garden thing in South Central Elkhart with both fabric quilts and murals and some of the landscaping stuff that we have made restoring the Prairie and the, the Dismounting Doctrine of Discovery Coalition's work that helped us, and you were a big part of this journey, identify the Indian trail that goes through our campus and put markers there like, what would it look like to to create this alternative kind of quilt garden tour of South Central Elkhart. That brings together the, the quilting histories of both European and African American communities, and I don't know like, like that I like, I think that could be an awesome thing that AMBS could do be a hub for and would connect Mennonites and South Central Elkhart in some really powerful ways. That's my answer to the question. That's very cool. And then one, one final question and then we're getting some questions from the, from the alumni as well. Are there any particular current research interests that you want to highlight before we go to the other questions. Sure. So I, I continue while one of the things that I started one of the research trajectories that I, I embarked on as part of my dissertation research was working with the more with less cookbook, living more with less. And then Midnight Central Committee, also published extending the table, which Joe at 100 schlabak put together and that was kind of like volume two of living more or more with less and then simply in season came along as kind of a little bit of a corrective to the heavy frugality of more with less Kathleen Hockman work and Mary Beth Lynch were the compilers and editors of that, that particular cookbook so those are called the world three those three cookbooks together are called the world community cookbook series. So I continue to do a lot of do well like it's less maybe research around the story and the development of those cookbooks, and more development of the theology that I have argued is evident in these this trio of cookbooks along with the companion living more with less. And nobody gets tired of hearing me talk about that, apparently. And so this actually just this last year, during lent I preached us a series of sermons at North Baltimore Mennonite Church, they were working with the life standards from living more with less. So, so that continues to be a place where I put a lot of energy and an intellectual energy and effort. That's great. Yeah, all right, I'm going to turn to a question from now on Serato. Okay, got two questions. So the first one is due to the diversity of students in the classroom. How do you manage the tone content and style of teaching, particularly when they're students from different countries. And, and so he was articulating things like speed language method change. Thank you non for that. And then we'll kind of second questions after you have a moment to answer that one. Yeah. So, so I've mentioned this, this approach to circle practice that I use. It's called the circle way. And, and I learned about it when I arrived at 10 years ago. It was, it's something that Maple City Healthcare Center had introduced into communities that, you know, and BS is kind of adjacent to that. Through the leadership of James Nelson Gingrich and others. And that really changed my life in some in some powerful and positive ways. But as it relates to now owns questions specifically, I have found that some of the principles of the circle way are really useful for empowering students to ask their questions. We use talking peace council so you know I find it very easy as as you know appropriate for my profession I suppose to just like start mini lecturing about anything. But when I'm in circle and we have a noisemaker often like a bell or a chime. Or just even my own circle practice that that teaches me how to be tuned into the people I'm talking to. I have learned that sometimes like I can actually read the room and like see when people are, you know, they've had enough. And so I can stop and take the talking piece which is in my class it's often a hacky sack. And we just send it around the circle, inviting each person to ask their question, offer a reflection. And if they don't have anything to say we can just sit in the silence to allowing people who are more maybe introverted to not feel like, like, like the only way to participate in this discussion is to, you know, get your hand up and be ready to go right away. So I've also learned from contemplative spirituality right that it's okay to slow down the pace of the conversation. So, so that I don't see the cultural diversity as maybe an obstacle to overcome or something to minimize, but as a really important resource for our learning as a group. So I hope that answers your question. That first question. That's great. And then he's also asking how does ambias help professors teach students with different levels of Christian formation or spiritual formation or English Anabaptist formation I'm not quite sure what he means by that but how aware are you of that the differences between what students bring and how do you work in the the classroom, and I hear him asking not just about you but are there conversations among the faculty. Thank you now and for both of those questions. Yeah, so, so one of the committees that I serve on I guess I could have answered or added this one. You asked about administrative responsibilities so I'm part of the pedagogy advisory group. And one of the things that we do is we get together on a regular basis as part of our work at ambias to address some of these kinds of intercultural dynamics and how and what are some of the teaching practices and opportunity like training professional development opportunities. We want to make sure that ambias faculty are able to to work on we give we create opportunities for people to workshop syllabi together or ask some of these kinds of intercultural questions in a space. That sometimes we draw we you know invite other folks into the conversation and our teaching research seminar is another place where intercultural teaching and development is is something that we work at together. So, so I would say, you know, one of the things that that these conversations highlight is that some of us are maybe more predisposed to like think about pedagogy as a content area that we are just as serious about learning from as our teaching content area. So I care about just as much about theology and ethics and pedagogy, right. Like I see these as being equal value, and then other colleagues who maybe have less of a formal pedagogy background, then rely on those of us who do take this content area seriously, and are well read in that like so we get to we get to be kind of teachers to our colleagues to on this front. Because everybody has has different kind of interest in in getting down into sort of. So, so like if you know Jeanine is my colleague is like hey Melinda, like I just ran into this challenge and I know you think a lot about this. Like is there a resource you can point me to so you know Jeanine might is might be looking for more like a technical fix. And so I can, you know draw from the well of resources that I have to help her out. So that's, that's another way I think that that we work at it but I mean it is ongoing work and I think one of the things I think about in these conversations is how important it is to have a spirituality of teaching there's just something I learned from Danielle But, but we also are working to develop a spirituality of multiculturalism and interculturalism and anti racism. And I think it's a great opportunity at is and I think it's a great opportunity at is a great opportunity at is a great opportunity at is a great opportunity at and BS to. Thanks. And, and bill block is, is noting that you have so many things that you are doing an interest that you have and I think is asking, how do you, how do you stay healthy in the midst of that and how do you work with like Paul, the apostle kind of have saying he has one focus although we probably realize Paul had many folks also I am. But I hear in Bill's question, how do you care for yourself in the midst of the many interests, the many activities, the many responsibilities you have? Thank you, Bill, for that. It's a great question. It is a great question. So I would say in two ways. One is, a long time ago, I sort of, and pardon, if you could, my dog's barking in the background, hopefully it's not too bothersome. But I like to think about my way of teaching and being a scholar and these kinds of things, using the analogy that I get from medicine, and people who are, you have different kinds of surgeons, because I used to watch Grey's Anatomy. So there, among the surgeons, you've got the people who are the neurosurgeons and they specialize in this, and then you've got people who specialize in fixing bones and all these different specialties. Well, I'm a general surgeon. So that's one of the reasons why I have this wide array of interests, because if there are questions that the church is asking, I want to be able to figure out how to be responsive to that. And that's part of what a general surgeon can do, lots of different kinds of procedures. But then if you have a highly specialized problem, then you're going to go to a highly specialized and skilled surgeon. So I like being kind of on that front line of folks who respond when there's a theological question that we're wrestling with. That's part of what gives me life and energy and joy in this work. But then my second way of answering that question is the self-care piece of it that you've highlighted, Jimmy. So I do have a series of practices that I take seriously and cultivate. One of them is an empathy practice that I have. So I meet with, it's kind of like a spiritual friendship in some ways, but it's focused around nonviolent communication and a protocol of giving and receiving empathy, listening empathically. Because part of the theory there is that empathy multiplies. That is when I have been received empathically by another, that increases my capacity to offer empathy to other people. And one of the things that a big part of the harvest that I have gathered in from that practice, which is now like, what, six, seven years old, is that it allows me to detach a little bit more when somebody's having a crisis, rather than sort of dropping everything I'm doing and responding to that crisis, which is kind of what I used to do and get overwhelmed by what's happening. I've learned how to offer compassion to people in a way that is authentic and meets them and connects with them and demonstrates my care for them, without taking on the responsibility of trying to help them solve their problem. So that's been important in helping me kind of build and create boundaries. But going back to what I was saying about the general surgery analogy, that analogy also helped me stop comparing myself so much to friends and colleagues who have a much more narrow focus to their work than I do. It allows them to go deep and then just like write books and books and books and books and books. I'm not quite that person. And so being in my empathy practice kind of helps me embrace the fact that I'm not that person, and it's okay that I don't function in that way. But that's, and then I also practice yoga, but I don't know how people on this call feel about yoga, so we don't have to talk about that too much. Well, thank you, Melinda, for answering all these questions and what a wonderful insight into your work at AMVS and your interests. And thank you to all of our alumni for being here today and especially for your ongoing support of AMVS. I've said this so many times, but alumni really are our most important influencers in the church, both prospective students and donors. So keep encouraging people you know to consider attending seminary. Note that we have a prospective student webinar coming up in less than two weeks on January 30th, and Melinda will be the speaker at that, giving a little mini lecture on one of the things she teaches in one of her classes. So we'd love to have you encourage someone to attend that. Also, if you have not yet given to the AMVS campaign that's happening this year, we'd love to have you participate in that or to encourage others to give to that. And finally, I hope you're staying connected to the seminary through ongoing classes and the Church Leadership Center offerings. There's still a couple of days to sign up for pastors and leaders at the early registration rate. And if you're an AMVS graduate, there's a special audit rate for you to take classes. So if you'd like to take a class this summer or next fall, just let me know. Next month on February 15th, our next third Thursday conversation will feature Dan Schrock who teaches spiritual direction at AMVS and also helps lead the Doctor of Ministry program. Thanks again to all of you who joined us this afternoon and also to student Janet McGeary who provided technical support. And this concludes today's third Thursday conversation. Have a wonderful day.