 Welcome to the high agency podcast with your host Noah Ravoy. Hello, everyone. The Manasphere is a loose connection of men working together to make men better. In any large group, there's always going to be some sincere conflicting opinions, but also con men, frauds and tricksters who bring out damaging information and creates controversy and other things within the community. And this is going to create a negative impression of the Manasphere. And within the Manasphere, in fact, there are some particularly controversial and I think unhealthy opinions that are put forth. And again, very conflicting often, they often do not have any internal harmony. My friend, David, is here to meet me today. He's a marriage mentor, a marriage counselor. He helps couples to build better marriages. And we're going to discuss some of the issues that he finds particularly incongruent in the Manasphere. And I'm going to try my best to answer him and explain why there's so much disagreement and so much confusion in the Manasphere. Welcome, David. Hi, Noah. Thanks. It's a pleasure to be here. You sound like a very exciting conversation because you're right. I do have, you label them as questions, which is fine. I label them as positions that I've taken on it so far. But that's all to come out together over this next hour. Well, and people have to understand too, you're a man with a lot of experience in helping couples and in relationships. And you've talked to maybe thousands of couples over your career. Probably I would say thousands. And so you're not coming at this from a lay person's perspective. This is not a man. You have to understand if you're watching, this is not a man who doesn't know anything about relationships or has only his own relationship as an example. This is an expert in the field. And so I brought him on today because he's perhaps better than most able to identify what's wrong in the Manasphere. And that's why I said Sins of the Manasphere as a title for this video. Perhaps you could start to bring up some of the things that you find incongruent, that you, some of the positions that you find particularly wrong. Sure. I mean, I wouldn't mind giving a little bit of background just to, because I think that'll help frame where I'm coming from. And we know that somebody's own person, no matter how much I've gone to school and been educated and have a degree and a license and family and marriage therapy, we all know that it's our story of origin, that it's our personal history that really has probably the largest impact on the way we see things. You know, it's impossible to get out from your own history. So I do have to admit that my history is probably a little atypical. I'm 54, turning 54 years old very soon. I met my wife when I was 17 and we ended up getting married at age, when I was age 24. We've been together ever since and it's been one long, continuous journey with her. And so I do have to say that for many of perhaps your audience or the younger generation today, the younger men today, my situation is going to be different. I oftentimes get people asking me for dating advice either on Twitter or they'll make a clarity call to my office and ask me for some dating advice. And I always like to make the joke that I'm happy to help, but that they have to realize the last time I went on a date was over 30 years ago. So things have changed a bunch since then, I know. But that's okay. And so I think my personal history brings something different to the table. How about you Noah, you've been married for how long? My story is similar. I met my wife a little bit closer to the time I married or we met when I was 22, married when I was 23, we were both 23 at the time. And we were married without kids for a while because I was quite ill two years after I got married, I got very ill. And we have three small children now. I'm 42 and we have three small children. And the interesting thing in my case is that right from my mid-teens all the way up to now, I've been giving people dating advice because for some reason people would come to me and ask me about relationships and dating. And so even though I'm not in the dating market, I would go with friends to places where they would pick up women. For me, my father taught me how to speak to anyone. But actually, he really gave me pretty good instructions on how to approach women and basically, you know, walk up to them and talk to them like they're a human being. It's really not that complicated. But I would go with my friends because I have a good way of lightening the mood and making it easy for people to get along when I'm in a group. And so I was always going with other people who were dating and watching them even after I was married. Funny enough, my wife was the matchmaker in her social group. So she was the one putting together couples and trying to figure out who would be good with who. And I think that's part of what attracted me to her is that we shared this skill set of very quickly being able to read people and understand compatibilities and even more important incompatibilities. You can be mostly compatible and have one big thorn in the side of the two of you. And it really can disrupt the whole apple cart. But that's where I came from. And so because I really dated very little, because when I decided to get married, I had three or four women that were interested in me and I basically, and then I was interested in, and I basically said, you, let's get married. I said to me, I don't really want to date you. And I was like, no, we're getting married. Wow, that's a real alpha move. Yeah. And basically she hung up the phone. And then later on she phoned back and said, on second thought, that's not such a bad idea. So we ended up working it out. I came over to Portugal right after September 11th, as soon as the flights opened up again. And then we dated for a few months here. Basically that was the vetting process. I wouldn't even call it dating, it was vetting. I was 99% sure I wanted to marry her. And I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't making a delusional decision. Because I knew I came from a family where my parents were not a good match. They did not get along well. And I don't think they would have gotten along well with anybody, either of them. And so I wasn't coming from a good example. I was constructing the entire experience, like a scientist studying chimpanzees in the savanna, or chimpanzees in the jungle, and trying to figure out how do marriages work, and going at it from a root causes and studying it like it was a foreign language for me, because it really was. And yes, I'd seen my grandparents' marriage. And I had heard the stories of my great-grandparents' marriages, which seemed quite healthy. But it's different than growing up with it. And so that reconstruction of it meant that I had to go and dig deeper and learn more than someone that could just see how it went and say, I've got to copy my parents and do what they did. So I had to really go in from the beginning. Sounds amazing, yeah, for sure. And yeah, it does sound like we have similar trajectories with our kids. I have a few more children than you. But yeah, basically, you've been with the same woman on the same journey since you're basically a formative developmental age with regards to dating and marriage. And so I like the idea. I like the fact that you're saying that people would come to you. So it's almost like you have this very intuitive way of how to connect with women and how to run a home and raise children, which is really great. Yeah, I have an advantage that I have very low anxiety. So if you take the big five personality test, you can find out where your neuroticism is and mine's a three out of 100. So only 3% of the population is less neurotic than me, basically. So I'm so unneurotic that approaching people randomly doesn't bother me. When I was two years old, my father said I'd go and approach attractive women at the mall while my dad and I were waiting for my mom to finish shopping. And I just go strike up a conversation with them. And I was a cute little kid, so they picked me up and I'd be talking to them. And when I ran out of things to say, how many things does a two year old have to say, I'd be like, oh, would you like to meet my father? And they always thought it was my dad's attempt at pickup. So to get a woman and bring her back. But yeah, that was that constant exposure to new people made it very easy for me to just walk up and talk to people. And in fact, I took it one step further in the last few years, and I've really cultivated being approachable. And when I go out in public, people come up to me and talk to me. Wow, I rarely have to go and talk to anyone anymore. If I want to talk to someone, I don't know exactly how I'm doing this, but they'll come and talk to me before I even move to talk to them. And it does have to do with looking at them and smiling and being friendly and being approachable. And if you see the picture of me here, I have a great big beard. But I have, that's not actually the best picture of me as far as the actualness. I do, I do have a way that will making people comfortable. And I'm at the stage now where I get approached by other people so often that it's very rare that I have to approach people, go to the park. And everyone from little children to old ladies to men, women, everyone comes up and wants to speak with me. And it's, you know, I am an English speaking person in a Portuguese country, but it's not that half the people in my town are not Portuguese. So it's not that it's just that I've learned to be approachable. And I think this comes from being very comfortable with yourself. If you're comfortable with yourself, then people will be comfortable with you as well. And from the low neuroticism. Awesome. That's really great. Yeah. So, you know, I started in the hemisphere probably, I would say about six years ago after I graduated from therapy school, got my master's and my license, did my residency or my internship. And I wanted to go take my business online. I thought, you know what, it's nice seeing people in the office, but let's see if I can help people online. So I went on Twitter and I typed in like men's issues or, you know, you know, man and marriage. And I got completely stuck down this rabbit hole of red pill and rollo and all these different things that I really didn't know any better. I was really new at social media for at least for Twitter. You know, I had a Facebook account. I'm an old guy. I had a Facebook account. And it was just really fascinating. I was reading all the stuff and I said to myself, wow, I'm going to like, this is really cool information, hypergamy and, you know, men's rights movement and MGTOW and like, wow, like things are really moving here. And I totally, you know, educated myself in this whole genre, this whole movement or this whole philosophy or praxeology, whatever what people are calling it nowadays. I read The Rational Mail. I started listening to Tom Likeis radio shows. He's just the best. I mean, he was the original RELP. I find it hard to find anything that anyone's added new to Tom Likeis. But he said back in the late 80s and 90s, maybe he was in the 90s. I forget. And the truth is the truth. And it's extremely rare to come up with actually new truth. Right. About relationships hasn't really changed in thousands of years. And coming up with new stuff is not, you know, new techniques to meet new needs. But the basics are always been the same. Yeah. Yeah. And like, you know, then I started watching like Patrice O'Neill video. She's hysterical, you know. So I really got a full, you know, education. And then I started arguing, you know, I'm a traditional man, you know, and I started kind of like arguing with people online and Twitter and stuff. Eventually, I became so combative and so argumentative that Rolo eventually blocked me. I was like so disappointed. I was like, oh my gosh, I can't believe I'm being blocked from this, you know. And at that point, I had enough Twitter followers and I just said, you know what? I'm tired of chasing after this red pill ideology that doesn't really fit with how I see the world. I'm going to develop my own voice. And that's when my Twitter account and my presence and my online practice really took off. And ever since then, I've been deciding to speak up more for how I see things and what I would consider the beauty of marriage and relationships outside of the red pill framing of how men and women, uh, intersexual dynamics is like, as they like to call it. And I think that's a very, I think, I think it's very important for men today to move outside of many red pill concepts because I find them to be in here, many of them, as much as they like to say that they're not negative, I find them to be very negative. And, um, unkind to women and discouraging to relationships. So, and I know that that's the, that's the topic today, and I can give you some examples whenever you're ready. But if you wanted to comment on what I just want to start off by saying, I absolutely agree with you. The, and you're right about going back to the older red pill stuff was more about, Hey, look, I discovered these things about men and women. And there was less conclusions. So there was more, this is a fact, this is a thing, this is a pattern. And then you were supposed to figure out what to do with it. And then we got to this point where, um, the, the, the conclusion that you were supposed to get about how to live your life based on a bunch of facts, you know, like hypergamy or whatever it happened to be. Now you have to do this. This is the outcome that you have to pick for you. And it became incredibly dogmatic. And that's when it really turned negative. It's when it became dogmatic and you said the right word, discouraging became discouraging for men and especially for these wounded men that come into it with, with their own relationship issues, their own relationship histories, their baggage. And instead of showing them, here's a bunch of facts. This is how you can use it to construct a better life. It was here's a bunch of facts and reasons why you shouldn't trust anybody, especially women. And that, that is absolutely the wrong outcome to cut, to come to. However, that makes men incredibly easy to manipulate and manipulatable men are profit centers. They keep buying new books. They keep buying seminars. They, they will spend time, attention and money on the person that keeps them in that trap. And I think that has happened a lot in the man is fear in the midterm in between those early guys. And I think we're starting to turn that corner where the man is fear is starting to turn against that negativity. But we're still in the early phases of that. Aha. Yeah, I heard that there's a, it's like a X red pill community on Reddit, which I thought was interesting. So I think there is, there is some, you know, movement away from the, a lot, some of the ideologies. I'll give you an example, one that I just made a YouTube video on the other day, before fresh and fit or fit and fresh kind of jumped the shark as we used to say back in the day. They would always come out, I think Myron, are you familiar with the fresh and fraught or whatever it is? I mean, yeah, I've watched some clips of them because there were people that I was interested in, happened to be on the show. And so I'd watched the clip. Yeah. I mean, they're, they're, they, they ran a good podcast. I mean, I have to be honest, they're very, very entertaining, very entertaining. And you know, I like Murray Povich for, for red pill, Murray Povich for 2021. Yeah. I said, I said, I said the same thing. I said Jerry Springer, but it's basically, you know, and I was just telling my wife about that. I was just sharing it with her. I'm just like, it's like, it's riveting how, you know, the, the crassness and the craziness and what you hear. And it's like, you know, a podcast, let's just say you're like yours or some of my videos, which are more traditional, they're so boring compared to what's going on. It's like, how do you compete? You know, and it's no wonder we need more, we need more, what essentially look like hookers on our show. Yeah. So one of the lines that they always say, which I just came out with a video, kind of like a reaction video against it was, you know, women love opportunists, opportunistically men love inherently. So the idea behind that phrase is that women are always out to get something from their man. They have these long laundry lists of, of things that men need, and they're looking for money and for resources and for things that go beyond what a man is looking for in a woman. A man wants companionship, man wants sex. And they would, the women on the show, when, when he would say such a thing and give examples, you know, would you marry a man who makes less than you? Would you marry a man who's shorter than you? Would you make him marry a man who couldn't protect you? You know, it would be embarrassing for the women, you know, and they would try to like crawl out from underneath this phrase, this phrase or this concept. And Rolo would always comment underneath that this, this phrase actually came from him. So Rolo would always come on the show and like, you'd see him in the super, in the chats and this and that. So it is a real red. He was behind that show. What was that? He's the brains behind that show. Oh, he was the brains behind the show. Okay. You know, and my point is an example is that they always try to tell the women, well, this is just a fact. It's just the way it is. This isn't anything negative and that's cool. Like, and the women knew that it was negative and they're feeding young men this concept that women love opportunistically and that men love innately or inherently or intrinsically or, I forgot the exact word, but the idea was that men love for who she is, not what she does or what she provides. I find this to be a, first of all, it's a, it's, it's not just a backhanded criticism. It's a horrible thing to say to anybody that they're opportunistic in love. Okay. That's, it's, it's, this is the message that they're giving to hundreds of thousands of young men that women love really only in a manner of opportunism. It's gross. You know, that's number one. And number two, to say it to another human being to suggest that to another person to tell the woman this is also nasty and rude. And then the third thing, which is to suggest that this is normal or just the way it is, or this isn't an insult to me, feels like massive gaslighting. You know, and I mean, do you have a comment on what I've said so far? Absolutely. You know, what is interesting about all of these, I would call Sins of the Manisphere, is that they take a kernel of truth. They distort it to the point where the original truth is almost invisible. And then they use it to manipulate people to get an outcome that they want. So that's what they're doing when they ask these women the questions they're trying to get outcome they want. Yes, women do have practical needs from men. Of course they do. You know, my wife needs me to provide certain things for her, just like I need her to look after my children. That doesn't mean that she's opportunistic. That means we have a partnership. You know, if you started a business with someone and they were providing some of the services you're providing the others and you needed each other to run the business, you wouldn't say your business partner was being opportunistic. They were just being a business partner. They were working with you. That's what a partner does. Exactly. They take these little half truths and then they extrapolate a result that doesn't line up the reality. Exactly. Now, it's easy for the men watching this to believe that because the vast majority of the fans of these kind of shows are men with almost zero experience with women and the experience they do have is with women who are opportunistic. And there are some women out there that are purely borderline psychopathically opportunistic. And if that's all you have experience with, of course you'll think women are like that. I keep meeting great women all the time because the other kind, I don't go where they go and I intentionally repel them and I pull in the right kind of women. So I never see those women. So for me it's like, I guess they're out there somewhere because I have clients occasionally that come to me and they're like, yeah, I was dating this girl and they'll explain and it was a horror show. But that's the exception. That's not the rule. That is broken women. Looking at broken people and saying this is normal. This is how it should be is undermining civilization. It's undermining relationships and it's keeping all of their viewers in a perpetual state of helplessness. I think it's evil. I agree with you 100%. I think you've said it really well. I should have had you join me on my reaction video. I said something a little, I added a little bit to that, which was that in the same way that it's a partnership, I mean men have standards as well and needs. So I gave the example at least on my video. I said, if you knew in advance, so let's take a look at it from the women's perspective for a second. You're asking, you're not to care about your income, about your ability to provide safety, provide security. You're asking you're not to do any of those things because that's of course opportunistic. She only has to love you for who you are exactly like your inner character. I don't even know what that even means, but for some reason they're expecting women. They act as if men only love women for like who they are and their relationship and they find them cute and they want women to love them for who they are the same way. The men don't love women like that. I could bring you the most beautiful woman. I could bring any man that's in the red pill or any man in the world for that matter, the most beautiful, funny, lovely woman in the world, but there's just one caveat. She's never going to have sex with you ever. So she wants to get married, maybe you'll adopt kids, but she will never have sex. She can have sex, but she never will. Are you going to marry this person? No, you're not going to marry her. Right? So obviously there are exceptions that people like, there are examples of men that have married paraplegic women and things like that, but the vast majority of men. They usually still find some way to have sex. That's how important it is that they'll find, life finds a way, as they say, they're going to find a way. Yeah, exactly. Looking after each other's needs is what people who love each other do. And more than that, men have requirements. We have baseline things that requirements that we're going to want from a woman that go beyond just liking her personality or liking for her, for who she is. She has to provide some utility and service to us. Otherwise, we're not going to marry that person. And it's the same thing for women. We like a woman for her personality. That doesn't mean anything. That sentence doesn't mean anything. What do you mean her personality? What aspects of her personality do you like? Now, if you get down to it, the aspects of the personality that you like are essentially providing you with things that you need. I met my wife and before I had any emotional attachment to her, before you don't meet a woman and love her in 10 seconds. It doesn't happen that way. I noticed things about her that made me say, this is a woman I might cultivate love for. I saw how she took care of her friends, how she was deeply concerned with her friends' happiness. And I saw how she was attractive and physically fit and was a sexy woman the way she moved and talked without being crass. She was classy, but still sexy. I saw certain things about her. I still had no emotion about her at the time. When I saw the things, the practical things I needed out of the wife, then I said, I can let my heart open up to the possibility of wanting this woman. Yeah. I've had to come first. If you're a man and it goes the other way around, so basically what they're saying is men are driven purely by their emotions of how they feel about women and are devoid of logic. I also thought that was a great insight, because I also felt the same way. It's almost as if they switched in the guise of trying to be red pill masculine, they actually demonstrated the exact opposite, that men are nothing but sexually driven, emotional pieces of tissue paper in the wind, whereas women are logical, practical. They're not just animals. They're not just animals operating on basic instincts. Yeah. They pretty it up with words like, you like her personality or you think she's cute. Really what they're saying is, you want to have sex with her and you can tolerate her personality. She's nice to you, essentially. That's incredibly insulting to men. It basically is taking all agency away from men and saying that they are animals. I find that incredibly undermining to men. The kind of men that are watching this type of videos that they produce probably are lower in agency to begin with, so they identify very easily without you and I watch them and go, what is going on? This isn't how men think. The guys that are watching this though that are making the positive comments below, they go, this is exactly how I think or I should say this is exactly how I operate because it's not really thinking. They identify with it and that's dangerous because that's not a healthy way to live. If you're a man and you're making your relationship decisions based on your emotions, you will never have a happy relationship. Right. So that's one example. Should I give more examples? Yes, please, please. I wrote one today, which I thought was pretty interesting. No, I literally can go on for hours about this, but I wrote one today that I thought was pretty interesting. I've been watching Kevin Samuel's videos and not just that. Again, this is not just a new thing. Like you said, this red pill kind of philosophy has been going on for a decade or so, maybe more, maybe two. One of the things that Kevin Samuel likes to talk about, if a woman calls up and says that she is no longer going to be having sex with men until she finds the right one or she finds a husband, this and that, so he gives it to her over the head. Like he really lambastres what you're not a virgin and why would you be holding out and why would a man date you if he can't get what he needs and you don't even think about what's important to him. I could go on. There's a whole script that he uses when a woman shows up and people call Kevin Samuel's not like the godfather. Like he's like the head of the red pill movement on some level. And you know what? He's mostly right about most things and the thing you mentioned is the biggest because I've listed a bunch of his videos too. He actually has a pretty good way of approaching people. The thing you mentioned is the biggest flaw in his thinking and it's a perceptual issue. Now lately he's been talking about if you're a woman, what do you have to give a man that you've never given to any other man? If you're a virgin, part of that is sex and that is you've given loyalty and respect to your father. Basically it's sex that you have to give to your husband is the only thing. Now if you're not a virgin, you don't have that. But what happens is that then leaves people with no solution to their problem. Now he's asking sometimes the right question but that conclusion that you can't keep a man you won't have sex with, that's exactly the problem that women fell into in the first place. Now if you got yourself into trouble with a certain behavior, continuing that behavior isn't going to get you out of it. If you overeat and get fat, overeating more isn't going to help you lose weight. You got to go on a diet. And if sex with men who won't commit to you got your life to the point where it is, more sex with more men who won't commit to you isn't going to help you. Totally. And I agree with what you're saying. But what I find most ironic is that you flipped the page in the Red Pill community and then you... So Kevin is all for these women continuing to be sexual because it's already been given to somebody else. So why are you withholding it from... Right? He's a single man. It's self-interest. Well, could be. I'm not going to... It's not... And I'm not saying this as he's a bad man for that. We all tend to speak in our self-interest and married men. It's in our interest that society gets more stable by people only having sex within relationships. Since we're stable, building stability on top of that increases our stability. More married couples increases the stability of our marriage. A society that's more pro-marriage is better for us because we're married. If you're not married and you want to have access to women, promoting abstinence isn't helping you. And so it's natural that a person is going to promote what is in their interests. The problem is is when that doesn't line up with what's true. Yeah, but it's not just that. My poking fun is also that... There's probably, I don't know, I want to say 10,000. I don't know the exact number, of course, but an enormous number of videos, Red Pill content that talks about women who continuously have sex with men. There's no pair bonding and they can't... Their number count is through the roof and they lose all their value for the streets. So it's like, on one hand, here comes a woman saying, okay, I don't want to have sex with men until I find the right one. And then the other hand, the second she says, okay, I will have sex because you're right, Kevin. So then the other half of the Red Pill community says, oh, she's for the streets and she'll never pair bond and their number count is through the roof. The whole thing is just... The left hand doesn't know what the right hand's saying and both of which are... Like you said earlier, it's a problem that a woman who's had relationships can't solve. And what are you banishing this individual to never have a love life in a romantic life ever? I find it very derogatory, demeaning and negative and it's nasty information to fill up a man's head with. No. Yeah, if you're familiar with one of the manipulation tactics called push-pull, you basically tell a person conflicting information and you tell them that you have to conform to these rules, but the rules conflict with each other. And the person can't conform to those rules and especially women are very eager to please. And yes, even modern women are very eager to please. And if you don't sign them, they're eager to please you. That's because they're not eager to please you. It doesn't mean that they're still not pretty eager to please. And they're here trying to go, wait a minute. Well, what should I be doing? Well, what tends to happen is the brain shuts down and the person becomes incredibly open to suggestion. They just do whatever they're told basically. And it's been used in brainwashing. It's been used in political concentration camps, that kind of stuff to break people down where they're giving these conflicting rules. Let me see that a little bit with the current pandemic. There's some of that in there with conflicting rules and things that don't make sense. And these are generally like, I can't help see that as manipulation tactics. Now, I don't think they're always intentional. I think people are sometimes operating unconsciously. But that is a manipulation tactic. When you tell people that they're screwed if they do, they're screwed if they don't, there's no way to solve this problem. You're putting them in a position of helplessness where they are then very easily manipulatable. And we already have a world full of manipulatable people. We need to reverse that trend. We need to help people learn to avoid manipulation and take responsibility for themselves. And for a woman, deciding to be absent until the next man she has sex with is her husband on his wedding night, on their wedding night, that's her taking control of herself and demonstrating agency. And it's the best thing that she can do. I don't see another solution for most women. Right. And I agree with you in terms of the women's perspective. And also, what irks me is the pile on negative mentality that you're feeding young boys. And it's almost like any angle you look at a woman and she's being demeaned. And what really bothers me the most is that this is guised up as help. This is dressed up as some helpful advice and speaking the truth. And like you said, there are bits of truth to it. We could talk for hours about many of the things that are truthful. But in my opinion, it's so distorted that I'll give you another one that I just wrote about also. This was a couple of days ago. But a joke is made when women show up and they say, where have all the good men gone? And then they say, I'm independent. I have a good job. I'm not looking for a handout. I am not looking for your money. I just want a husband who loves me. There's tons of Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, Twitter videos of women who are coming out and saying, where have all the good men gone? I don't need your money this and that. And so reaction videos from the Red Pill community are, no one cares about your money. Your money means nothing to us. That's not what we're looking for. You're trying to project what's important to men onto women. We don't care about your money. You're worthless to us. Your money doesn't mean anything. Fine. Okay. So instead, you have to be fit, feminine and friendly. So then a woman gets on. You have these other videos where the woman gets on. She says, well, I want to be a stay-at-home mom and I want to be at home taking care of the kids. I want a husband who works and provides. Okay. And then the Red Pill reaction video is, okay, well, this is a gold digger. Look at how women are only interested in your resources. She's a lazy good for nothing. She wants to do nothing. So it's like, if she comes to the table saying, I can provide everything, I don't need your money. Oh, she's just projecting. She has no idea what it means, what men really want. You don't really care about what men really want. But if she comes to the table saying, well, I want to be a stay-at-home mom. I want to have a traditional family. Oh, you're a gold digger. So what's a woman supposed to do? I mean, there's only two options. Either she brings money or she doesn't. You know, sometimes it's the same channels making both of those reactions. What it is is it's men who see it's a little bit different when men like you and I talk about this. We have zero interest in these women sexually. We've switched more into the father mode where we're more concerned about them because we want them to go and find some stability and be happy. Because as I mentioned before, for married men, greater stability in society means safety for our children. It means a society that will provide a better future for our children. We have a big stake in the future now. Well, for the men that are complaining, almost always anonymous, you very rarely see their actual face. When you do, there's a few of them who are married, sometimes to women who are career women making a lot of money and they're upset about this and then they're taking this out on women in general. But what happens is a lot of times these are men complaining about women they could never get and all they want to do is this is the cake I can't eat so it doesn't taste good. That's what it is. It's sour grapes. Yeah. Well, I can imagine that. I think we have to look at it. This is why we have to be careful who we take advice from. If you're a young man and you're taking advice from other young men who haven't successfully negotiated a relationship and had children and at least been a few years with their spouse, you're taking some might be great advice. I have guys that I train young men that give really good advice, but they're giving my advice, which my advice is ancestral advice. It's from our ancestors. It's what always worked. It's not even my advice. I didn't invent relationships. They existed long before us. And when you start to try that when you want to make content, you have to you have to invent something new. You have to be controversial complaining cells. Most men today are a bunch of whiny bratty children. Okay. And they want to hear whining and complaining. They don't want to hear solutions. Can you imagine if all of these videos said, look, be a better man and you'll have access to better women and you won't end up with women with these problems? It's not their fault. It's your fault because you don't qualify for the better quality women. Can you imagine if that's what the video said? Right. Well, I want to just, I want to comment on that. And this is an approach that I like to take on Twitter and in my blog and some of my videos that most of the problems that men have with women are appropriate problems that whose function is to create, to turn you into a better man. See, I'm not a big believer in toxic women per se in women. Of course, I'm a mental health professional. So I know that there's a small percentage of the population that has a diagnosable disease. I get it. That's my profession. But in general, especially having been a therapist for so long, most of the issues that couples come to me with, when I say most, I mean like 95, 98%, there are issues that are solvable issues within the context of a committed loving relationship if you want to put it in the work. And so many men pathologize the difficulties that they have with women or they say that's a certain type of women or those women. I don't believe that. Again, there are the rare narcissists that walk into my door or the rare borderline personality disorders or the rare women that need some or men that need some sort of medication, rare. But in general, the couple's problems require effort, work, a humility, self-awareness, the willingness to change, the willingness to be humble, the willingness to learn. And a lot of people are not ready or don't want to put in that effort, and it's easy to point the finger at her and say, oh, she's this or she's that type of woman. In general, I don't believe that at all. I believe that the problems that women bring to you are specific problems that are exactly what you need in order for you to grow into the man that you can be. And once you become that man, that exact same woman with those exact same problems aren't going to be problems anymore. Yeah, and I do think there are some women with and men, of course, but some women with an inability to properly connect in the relationship, which means they're not willing to do some of those work you said. And not again, that's also something that can be dealt with. That's something they can learn how to overcome. And it is a lot of what is complained about as shit tests is simply women feeling insecure with a man who demonstrates weakness, who demonstrates that he's not capable of doing what he's supposed to be doing. And so they end up being insecure and insecure women or unhappy women, unhappy women end up making everyone around them unhappy as well. You know, unhappy men kill themselves, unhappy women make everyone around them miserable. And so it's different, I mean, at least they're still alive at the end of it. And so if your wife is doing that, those kind of, some people call it shit tests, I prefer to call it a fitness test. She's testing your fitness. That disappears. If you're often demonstrating that you're a fit man, my wife doesn't do fitness tests to me anymore for quite a while now, because I'm around other men, she sees me leading other men. You know, she sees how those men look up to me, how they respect me. And she says, Hey, if he can lead those men, if he can fight those men and work with those men and do projects with those men, and he has their respect, they have his respect, then I don't need to test them. They're already testing them. But most men are so disconnected from their own masculinity and from any kind of a group activity or masculine activity that they can't demonstrate to her that they're fit. And so she has to come up with some fitness tests of her own, because he's not doing the job of demonstrating it. I don't think this was a problem for our great great grandfathers, because men worked with men, men led men, this was part of how they operated. And so she didn't need to do that. This is more of a modern soft society problem. Well, you know, you know, I hear that. And I love your explanation. I do think it's important for men to lean into their masculinity and to have male friends and to take on the role of an advisor like you have. And I think that definitely helps men. You know, my basic, you know, I'm more of a religious person. So, you know, when God created Eve, you know, he said, she's going to be a helpmate against you. And from that moment on, that's when nagging and shit tests and everything started from that moment on. And it's been that way, that's been one of the driving forces of the success of the civilization of the world, starting from day one. And that's the, and I always tell women who are my clients, I said, I feel sorry for you because, you know, unfortunately, that's your job. And it's a tough job. You know, I'd rather be the guy than the one. There is definitely some truth. I will, I will agree there's some truth to that. And here's a great modern example in India. They've had a real hard time. You know, you don't normally buy a pre-made house there. You have a plot of land and you build that house until you're in your late twenties when it's finished. And then you can go get a wife and you move into your house. And maybe it's not even finished. It's half finished. So they did a campaign to tell women to encourage women to say, until he's installed the plumbing in the house, basically a toilet. So he's installed the plumbing. Don't say yes to marriage. And all of a sudden, when this caught on really well with women, because this is going to give them privacy and other things, you know, safer or less diseases, all this stuff, it caught on really well with women. And the number of homes, new homes being built with plumbing went from about 20% to 70% in a couple of years. Great. You know, demands drive civilization. I tell my friends this all the time, like, we'll be a bunch of us guys sitting around. And we're perfectly fine to be uncomfortable. And I say to them, you know, if it was just us guys, we'd be living in a cave in the wilderness, you know, shitting out of doors and wiping our but a leaf and that would be civilization. Like if men just spiraled and just split into two and now there's two of us and there was no women, we wouldn't have a civilization. Men created civilization so that women could go to the washroom indoors and could have a safe place to sleep that was warm and could raise children in peace. We created civilization for those reasons, for women, basically. We don't need civilization. I love being out in the wilderness. It's great. Oh, yeah. That's very, very true. And, you know, they always have these memes on Twitter or wherever memes are that, you know, the man's apartment is just like a chair, a TV, you know, and there's no bed. It's just, you know, an refrigerator, you know, and that's pretty much it. And that's all that men need, you know, you know, what else do we need, you know, and that's our whole purpose of, like you said, the whole purpose of our lives is to create a dwelling place for women and children, you know. And I believe I did one of my, I have these good morning God, good morning world tweets that I do every day. And one of them just recently was about the divine feminine, that the purpose of the creation is for men to create a dwelling place and a civilization for the divine feminine, which actually represents God's feminine energy. And that's what the whole, that's what, that's why they say Judaism is a feminine religion, because ultimately what we're trying to do in the Jewish religion is to create a dwelling place, a home for God in this world, which is what the role of masculinity is all about. I want to share a comment from one of the viewers, and this is something I hear from a lot of men, and I think, I think we'll have some interesting things. This is a really common in the in the Red Hill community in the man is for a real common comment here. It's appeared down in the bottom of the screen. And men will say I've got basically that got my act together. And yet I still am not finding attractive women that are also put together and well sorted out psychologically. That's a great question. And it's it's the same question that a man would say, I've got my university degree, and I still can't get a job. Or I have money and I still can't find anything to buy. Is that the fault of the market? Or is that the fault of the person operating in the market? Oh, yeah. And the dude's fit. He's working out five times a week. Okay. Can I can I ask that person a question? Is he if he answers, I'll pop up the answer below. Go ahead. Okay, cool. So I first of all, I feel your pain. And that sounds really horrible, because it sounds like you're doing all the right things. And you're not getting the results that are commensurate with the energy that you're putting into it. So, you know, you have my empathy, not that you need it, but I definitely feel for you. But let me ask this gentleman a question. What's wrong with trying alternative means of meeting women, instead of apps, as we all know, the apps are, like you said, a dumpster fire, or whatever his exact language was. Yeah. What's wrong with meeting women in a more old fashioned way? And I'd be interested in his response, you know, not telling him what to do. But what's wrong with meeting women, going up to a woman, or approaching a woman, you know, in a Starbucks, or being set up by friends, or even using professional matchmaking services that can get with men and women of like minds together. What happened to all that? Is that gone, or? One of the commenters asked, is he in a male hierarchy, a male group somewhere? You know, if I got single guys in my group, I'm always keeping my eyes open for young, attractive, feminine women that would match with one of my men. And like, so are all the other married men in the group, because we want the married, the guys who are still single to get married. That's generally most married people want everyone around them to get married too. So, you know, we keep our eyes open for our friends, we care about our friends, we keep our eyes open for them. Being in groups like that, so many people are very, very isolated from friendships from, they're not in a church, they're not in any kind of a group where they're meeting people, and it leaves them with very few alternatives besides the dating sites. That's, I think, really the root cause of it. You're right, Dave, the bump. Yeah, I just, again, and I respect young men who tell me that approaching women today is taboo or will wind them up in jail or, you know, like, I don't have, like, because the last time I went on a date was 30 years ago, but I do hear of people, and again, it's not necessarily PUA, I do know that I personally know plenty of women who would appreciate being approached or introduced through friends. You know, I think that people need to put these dating apps down. It is a, it must be one of the most deflating and defeating feelings for a gentleman, a young man, especially when it has his act together, to be on these dating apps. My son, who is very successful at what he does, he's, he made a lot of money in the stock market. He's very handsome, and he's got a beautiful personality. He put himself on a dating app just as a joke, he doesn't use them, but he just put it out there because he was traveling somewhere, and he did it for one of the startups that he works for, and a couple of the people in his group had to put their profiles on these dating apps, so there was a girl in his group. She got 3,000 hits that first week. She was nothing, she's nothing to write home about. She's attractive young, you know, as many young women are attractive, and he might, but my son was at least in her league, he got 3. Yeah, that's a big ratio that I see. I've had young ladies between like 18 and 23, and they put their stuff on a dating website, and she says, I'm getting 200 messages an hour. I don't have time to deal with it. It was over, like the problem for women is that it's an overwhelming and mostly low value amount of attention, and for men it's an incredibly underwhelming and humbling experience. I swear I talked to more interesting women just going around and hanging out where women are by accident than if I was focused on meeting women on a dating site, and the thing people don't realize too is when you're in a group, when you're on a dating site, you are an individual separated from all culture, reality, and friends, and family. You know, it's not really you. It's you without all of your roots, but when you go out in public with your friends, with your family, with people that you care about, you've got a whole load of people around you watching your back. You've got people there that are helping you. It's a completely different type of interaction. Totally true, and not just that. When you're out with your friends, you're already milling around with people who share common values and common culture, so you've already narrowed down the possibilities of women. You're not going to get, if you lean more towards the right and you're hanging out with your friends, you're not going to get some very lefty feminist that you could match with, and that was just an example. I mean, there's just dozens of even people in your own socioeconomic. I get it that a very, very wealthy man might not want to date a very poor, back to the days of England and stuff like that, a very poor woman and vice versa, a very wealthy woman might not want to date. There's good logistical reasons for that. If you are very wealthy, knowing how to live that way and understanding, both my wife and I grew up very poor, and I have to keep reminding her that we're not poor anymore, you don't need to spend an hour to save $5. Okay, just spend the $5. Forget about it. We're not more times worth more than that. It gets, that situation multiplied by a thousand when you're dealing with the difference between poverty and extreme wealth. I understand it. There's logistical reasons for it, and I think the ability to manage intergenerational wealth is developed intergenerationally. It's really hard to marry into a family like that, but yeah, not only that, you can do background checks on people. When I met my wife, that's the first thing I did. She was in my church, but in another country. I had the elders in my church, only elders in her church, and get the low down on her, what's she like? What's her reputation? I wouldn't go and date some random woman I met that I had no way to do a background check on her or have some sort of social connection outside of it. And then here's the other thing. People can be really good at deceiving, not necessarily intentionally. They deceive themselves too, but it's really hard to deceive an entire group of people. And she can deceive you a little or you can deceive her, but your friends are going to see right through it because they're not interested in that the same way you are. So they're going to see through that and they're going to say, yeah, I know she's probably telling you what you want to hear. Um, you know, this isn't what she was telling people before last week when we met her, you know, and so you'll often end up with these overlapping social circles. There's a real power in that. But when people have interlap overlapping social circles, most of the deception disappears because people know you can't deceive because everybody knows who you are. You can't pretend to be somebody else all of a sudden. Right. Why some people like going traveling to meet women or vice versa women to meet men because they can pretend to be someone they're not. You can't do that when everybody you know knows her and vice versa. Well, you know, listen, I would be interested in hearing from younger, younger men, you know, who are actively trying to find women what some of their challenges are meeting them. You know, and hearing from their perspective, like, you know, is it, is it the other the other day I was driving through a Starbucks was about a year ago. And I was driving through a Starbucks just through the drive-thru. And the barista that handed me my coffee leaned over and she reached out over through the window and she handed me my coffee. And I noticed that she had the most spectacular eyes I had seen. They were like these some reason they were like this amber yellowish hue. And I was like, wow, this is really unique, like gorgeous, you know. And I told her, I said, you have the most beautiful eyes. And, you know, I'm much older than her. And, you know, I'm more like grandma, you know, but for a second I said to myself, oh my gosh, she's going to call the police. Then she turned to me, as I said that she said to me, she just kind of sighed. And she said, thank you so much. I needed that today. You know, and it was like this very connecting moment between two strangers. And I guess I'm curious as to know whether or not that's even a possibility today anymore, or people just are so involved in electronics or so afraid of me too, or just won't do that, you know. Yeah, that fear of me too. Now mind you, I'm living in Europe, so it's a little bit, it's, you know, five, maybe 10 years behind the US in social patterns. But I've never, no matter where I've been, I've never been afraid of that me tooing stuff. I assume that all social interactions will go nicely. And I assume it to such an extent that it's like a reality distortion field. It just happens. So I never have any problems with people. And I'm telling people all the time, wow, you're beautiful. That's a nice shoes you buy. I don't know, complimenting people constantly in moderation. But within five minutes of meeting me, I will almost certainly compliment you on something. And I do it so organically. And I'm not like, I don't have a checklist in my head of things I should do. I'm just being sociable. I'm being normal. And while not normal, I'm being sociable. Unfortunately, modern normalism is very sociable. I'm being sociable. I'm showing the kind of manners that I was taught by my great grandparents. They're basically the ones that taught me manners. So I've got 120 year old manners. And I just treat people like they have a lot of value. No matter how much value they have, I treat kids that way. You know, I have, I've had a few kids that I've known for some years and they'll tell me they said the thing that I always loved about you, Noah, is that you treated me like I had value. You treated me with respect, even though I was a child. You know, some of them have grown up, not known them for 15 years. And they went from 10 to 25. And they'll tell me this, I've had some of the parents come back and say, my kid absolutely loves working with you. And I said, I did some projects with children in education and things like this, because you treat him with respect, whereas the teachers he goes to don't, they treat him like a, like he's an inconvenience in the classroom. And that just treat people, all the people you meet, treat them with respect. And I think this comes from the fact that I have a good understanding of who I am. And I have a good view of myself. And so I, there's nothing I'm ashamed of. Like I don't walk, if you want to absolutely get me to walk up to a woman loaded down a shame, because she's going to pick up on that and women are amplifiers, emotional amplifiers, she's going to pick up on your shame. Then she's going to amplify that and throw it right back at you and shame you and be ashamed of you. And all she's doing is reacting to that energy you're bringing to it. You come, like, you come into the situation like you're supposed to be there. Like this is the only natural place for you to be. And that talking to that person is completely healthy and normal. You don't get bad reactions. That's very reaction I ever get is someone ignoring me because they're too shy to reply. That's the worst thing that ever happens. And that's no problem at all. Right. Right. Yeah, I love that confidence that that really makes a big difference of friendliness and openness and the confidence and then the, the, the, like you said, the shame or the negativity of sexuality kind of goes away. Yeah. Nice. Well, and one of the advantages that you and I have is because we're married, when we do approach women, we don't have, I want to have sex with this woman on our mind, like not now, not in the future. It's just not going to happen. And so we're approaching them differently. And this is the problem with a lot of young men. They're approaching women, they find attractive and they're so focused on the end result of having sex with them that they're starting to treat them like a sexual object instead of first trying to make some connection with them. And that works on broken women, actually, that does work on broken women. It doesn't work on healthy women. And that's why they have a negative reaction. Well, we're getting around, we've just been over a little over an hour now. So I think it's good to wrap up. Okay. I'd love to talk to you another time and cover things maybe, maybe on your podcast, things like hypergamy and some of the other common things we talk about in Red Pill Manusphere circles and how it's being explained very poorly to people and how, and also how it's being misused, both to undermine men and to demonize women. And I think it's an important discussion to have. But let's save that for another time. Sure, of course. It's wonderful having you on. I really appreciate you joining me today. Yeah, it's been my pleasure. And I love your methodical, very reasonable and rationed approach to these topics. You sound very mature and well thought out with the way you presented how to view all this stuff. And you write, it is a sea of confusion. And yeah, good for you. And your audience is very lucky to have somebody who can bring them this information in a way that makes sense in a more realistic and loving and relationship centric manner. Thank you very much, David. And if you're looking to contact with David, you can see in the, not in the comments, in the video description below, there's a link to your link tree where you can contact him, where you can set up a meeting with him if you want. If you are having trouble with dating, maybe come to me if you're having trouble with relationships, you can go to David. And we're people with a lot of experience. This is what we've done for ages. You will not get the same quality of advice from a talking head on YouTube, because you'll get dropped in person or even through video, one-on-one communication, that personalized level of coaching therapy, whatever you happen to get, there's real power in that. Totally, totally. And, you know, sometimes when, when couples come to me, it's, sometimes they, they've been influenced, oftentimes the man has been influenced by the, by red pill, you know, ideology. And what ends up happening is that, you know, he ends up digging a deeper hole for himself in the relationship, because he tried to implement some of the red pill stuff that he heard online. And certainly within the context of a loving, committed, connected marriage, there's almost no room for that attitude, you know, within those walls. You know, it's a totally different thing. So for sure, I agree that coming to somebody with experience and relationship and centric is definitely key. Excellent. Thank you very much. And you can contact either of us using the links below this video. Thank you, David. And I hope we can do this again sometime. Certainly, certainly. I'll talk to you later, Noah. Bye. Bye. Thank you for watching our video. And I hope it inspired you to take action in your life. Please subscribe to our channel and like this video to get more agency building content. The real secret sauce is in our newsletter. Click on the link in the video description below to sign up. I promise I won't flood your inbox and anything that we do send you will be of high value.