 So we have a big task at hand because we do the session right before lunch. So we have to see how captive we keep this audience from running away to the lunch counters, right? So let's do this. It's an interesting topic. We're discussing digital integration. We're discussing TV, future of TV. How connected TV is going to change the world? How are we looking? How advertisers are looking at it differently? How broadcasters are going to look at it? It's an interesting conversation. We have a very interesting panel. Let's start off with quick about, say, 60-second quick introduction. What do you guys do? What is your view on this category, on this particular topic? What is your stance on it? Probably that will set the context for what do we do next, right? Let's start right from that. Let's go. Thanks, Ari. I'm Ashish Pawar. I'm Ashish Pawar from Tata Mutual Fund. I head marketing. While looking at both the mediums, which I clearly feel is both are equally important from a perspective, and based on the product life stage which you are in, for example, for your product in, we need to use it in a seamless manner, which I look at. The best example which I was talking to them was about a Zomato sort of stuff where I had it seen on TV and then I get it on a mobile saying that this is the coupon code and I used to buy it. So I think that's how you can complete. That's a small thing which I would like to put it. Hi, guys. Hi, Zahid. I lead digital for HDFC Bank. I think this is the most imperative and the need of the day, this topic. If you have to save media monies, if you have to save rigor in terms of planning as well as execution, this is the most having thing, that is an integrated media approach. And interestingly, when we talk about this, none of the agencies in many of the brands, they don't have an agency which is thinking integrated. There is a separate TV, separate digital, separate performance. So I think this is a very interesting uptake in the next bus that's going to be happening. Thanks for that. Jitain, let's move to you. Hi. So this is Jitain and I head marketing. My view is, if you look at the mega trends, there are a lot of mega trends which are shaping the consumer behavior, right? The prominent among them are digitalization and individualization. And today, if you look at the mediums that we have, there's a lot of individualization, personalization that people are looking at. And that's where you see the role of digital evolving very rapidly. So TV, obviously, the top of the funnel and the middle of the funnel is where TV obviously plays the most important role. But digital is where the bottom of the funnel is where people are using a lot of digital. So there's a lot of, if you ask me, there's a lot of integration which is happening. Obviously, there are challenges which are happening on that front. But I just think the one without the other today is not a possibility. If you really ask me from my point of view. Thanks, Kailash. Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you, Hari. This is Kailash Adhikari from Shri Adhikari Brothers. And on this particular topic, needless to say that my biases towards TV lie as we have been to TV since the past four decades. But having said that, there's no denying about the fact that digital is a strong medium. And each and every medium, whether it's print, outdoor, TV or digital, somewhere they try to get integrated because fall under the ambit of the media and entertainment sector in this country. And looking forward to the discussion here of how best integration can happen. Thanks, Sameer. My name is Sameer Sethi. I had brand marketing for Policy Bazaar. So the topic of the discussion is integration of TV and digital, I believe is very oxymoronic. I don't think TV and digital can be integrated. But they can operate in their different silos, working collectively to achieve very different objectives. Right. You go last, right? Hi, my name is Sumit. And I had the integrated marketing communications function at Godrich interior. I think it's a very interesting topic and a very relevant discussion to have at this stage because digital is obviously growing very fast and there's a plethora of options out there. I think an integration, like Sameer pointed out, may not be possible in a very seamless manner, but what is important is that you look at the media planning in a far more holistic manner so as to be more relevant to the consumer today. At the same time, the brand gets the impact that it needs because whether you operate in silos or whether you do whatever integration you want, you want to stay relevant for the consumer and you want to create the impact for the brand. So I think those are the principles by which one should operate. Absolutely. And I think that's an interesting point to segue into this discussion. I remember back in 2008 when we used to attend these seminars, we were discussing about how digital is the next big thing. And that conversation went on for about five years, right? And that's probably the conversation today, like how is TV and digital integrating, how connected TV is the next big thing. Let's set the premise. How integrated are we, right? Are we at the shore? Are we marinating in it? Or are we way in? And anybody who's not doing it is already late, right? Let's start with you. Sameer, why don't we start with you? Thanks, Hari. So I don't believe we need integration first of all. There is no need for any integration. TV has been around for a while. It is still the single largest reach medium in the country. Digital is up and coming and it's gradually stealing a share of viewership away from television. That will continue to happen. But I think both of them need to be used for very different purposes. So you can use TV for mass advertising to quickly build up reach, while you can use digital to, let's say, for example, do very segmented and smart advertising, which is a lot more measurable. So I think both of them are important. And both of them definitely need to be part of any marketer's media plan today. He said something interesting. He said TV is losing out to digital and I'm sure you're going to take offence to that. So why don't you put some semblance there? Is what he's saying something that you're experiencing? Or you're saying that the pie is getting bigger, but maybe the contribution is reducing? Maybe you put some... I said very gradually. We need some spies to this chat, right? So what do you think? You know, Hari, my perspective is that television in this country is about three and a half decades old and digital, whether you call it OTT or YouTube or the other mediums, will touch about a decade old. So if you're talking about an integration or a marriage, it's about 35 years versus 10 years. So it's not so easy. You know, it is an evolution process and people who are in the digital space are also evolving all their, whether it could be their PNLs, business models, or the right kind of content mix, it is all in the experimentation stage. Whereas TV, 35 years old, is quite matured in that particular aspect. Also in India, as we were discussing, you know, behind stage, it's about the fact that 70% of India is connected to television. And India is the only interesting market where the free TV is growing. Although we see some bit of decline in the pay TV, but that's not at that a double digit scale where you see in the West. Having said that, I also believe that the audience profile for both the mediums are separate. I agree with him that, you know, whether they can be integrated or not is a separate question. And that actually relies upon the audience expectation also. What that particular consumer or viewer is expecting from television and what is he expecting from digital? Because, you know, prior to COVID, digital was also a very personal space, my handset. It is only in COVID that, and also because of the fact that now smart TVs are, they are only getting sold, that TV is just a monitor. You can, you have your linear content, satellite TV, now there's connected TV growing and you also have your digital apps. So TV at the end will become a monitor, and it is upon the audience to choose, you know, what and when. And the demography or the audience profile for both of them are actually very separate. Sure. Jai that. Yeah, I just wanted to add. So were you saying in terms of the importance of television and digital, I think the starting point is the marketing objective. What is it that you really want to achieve? And then you look at the consumption habits of your consumers, right? So from that point of view, you actually, let me give an example. For example, if we have, say, a light TV user, a medium TV user, and heavy TV user, right? Now for a heavy TV user, maybe for example, if I understand that he's consumed, I mean, if you've delivered on the GRPs and you don't want the excess to be wasted, and you want to kind of target the light TV user, maybe that, you know, consumer segment is where you put more of your digital money, right? So for example, to ensure that you optimize your budgets, right? You can use your budget in a way where you optimize it in such a way, okay, that both TV and digital kind of deliver on your objectives. Right. So we'll be conscious of the narrative that we're not talking about TV and digital in silos. We're talking about it in an integrated manner, right? So, I mean, irrespective of whether isolated money is going into one platform or the other is not what we're really discussing. We're talking about how is it integrated to what extent it is integrated and are we seeing some headwinds, right? You know, that's probably a question I want to throw your way, right? Do you, are you seeing early trends of integration or are you feeling that they're actually working in isolation and we are just masquerading replicability as integration, right? What do you feel? See, the way we have to look at it is when you look individually, okay, the focus is reach, right? The advantage of each of these platforms are coming handy and everybody will support and come and support their own cause, right? But when as a brand, and I'll just quickly touch base and take a segue from what he was telling me, is what's the objective? 600 million, 900 million, your product is not even catering to maybe 25% of that audience. So what we have to figure out is where the TG lies and what is their passion point. So hence the planning core should not be data of these platforms but should start from a global web index or what is the passion point and what is the TG that you're catering to, then let's start understanding the media and index it so TV will have its own denominator, that's the largest denominator. Can you index that data with social media platforms based on the TG and the interest group that you're doing? Now that's how we will start integrating the media because, see, there are four, let's say at least broadly four types of campaign that you can do. There is a, let's say a sufficiency campaign, there is a brand awareness campaign, which will be a high impact campaign, spray and pray. You have to establish a brand, spray and pray. There is a sufficiency campaign for a long-term growth. There is a brand advocacy campaign and then there is a performance campaign. Each one of these might, apart from performance, beat a brand saliency, brand awareness or brand advocacy for a layman. It might just sound the same. But final nuances based on measurement, based on acd, based on how you make the creative, based on the performance, on the channel you define, they all are different. And that's where the integration comes into play. If you have to create a sufficiency plan, you have to very, very, if it's a spray and pray and if you have the budget, go across all the platforms, there is a huge overlap. There is a huge over exposure. There is no media efficiency in terms of money saving, but it's okay. That's the objective. Go on. I'll just directly answer your question. Is there integration? No, there is no integration at the moment. Right from the planning stage, we buy different things when you look at, I'm just talking about linear TV versus digital. Now, at the planning stage, there is no integration because you buy very different things. You buy in gRPs, you buy in CPMCPVs or whichever metric that you want to measure. So there is no integration. Whether there should be or not is a different question altogether. At the moment, and like what he said, I don't believe there will be integration unless one of the medium moves to a common platform where measures, where audience data, and where advertisers are able to buy it on a common platform. Unless that happens, integration is possibly not even ever going to happen. So connected TV, for instance. Actually, we have gone to the integration zone. Buying, even buying is integration. So when you are buying, and that's what I was trying to harp on, is the whole planning zone of it. If you are even planning separately, that means you are going to waste money because that cannot happen that you're planning separately and buying in an integrated manner. So what we have to do and what we are going into the zone in is using the right tools which can at least approximately put all the denominators together to help you understand where is the overexposure happening and which denominator and which gRPs giving you the right exposure beyond which a TV is overspent or those particular episodes are overspent, a digital is overspent, irrespective of the influencer platform, social media platform. And that gives you a total integrated approach. So you can optimize within each of them? Sure. But if I were to say that can you optimize and create a deduplicated reach which is to a far extent you're certain, those kind of solutions still are not available. Because TV is measured in a very different way than what digital is measured today. That's an interesting discussion. Absolutely. I think it's an interesting segue into what we could discuss. So one is probability of all of this happening. I think we are also discussing funnels. So we are discussing what stage is the brand at, we are discussing funnel at the top, bottom. Tell me any of you, have you guys used it in real life? Is there a real use case of integrating TV and digital together that you guys can discuss? Maybe that's a good point to start because there is an actual example somewhere. Jayat seems he's nodding his head vigorously. So I think he seems to have one. I'll take a little pride in this maybe. No, because I haven't talked. So we had done a campaign which is a month back. And what we did was we started with digital. And of course, while when we did the research, we started with digital to understand what it works and how it works in certain segments. And basis that we moved on to TV on the regional channels. So what we figured out was, of course, for the A town and the B towns, we went in with digital because of the cost constraints and all. But for the B and C towns, we went in with regional channels. So I'm saying that's how integration work. And while we have the same messaging which I was talking to him, but for the different touch points and different days, the call to action was different. For example, a sip, which is a Michelin sip for a particular audience was starting at around 500 rupees a month for a bigger audience on an OTT, for example, just starting at 500 a month. So we are trying to work towards it. Are we there? We are not there. I couldn't say that. And I can just put a point saying that while we think we should integrate or not integrate, consumer has already integrated. I'll just give you an example. I was talking to my child which was there. While she sees certain things on news, on television also and as well as on OTTs also. People are integrating, people are going forward. Of course, the gen Zs which we call about are looking into digital as such. But when I see about my parents and all, they are still onto that. So we need to understand as he rightly said, what is our TG, what is our product which we are in and then look into it. But yes, integration. Sure. So I'm going to come to you. I'm going to close the use case. Yeah. So I mean, you are a digital first category spending tremendously on television, right? What is your experience there? I mean, digital first, usage, consumption, purchase, all is happening on a platform. But probably you are using television a little differently. So what's your view there? So see, number one, I think TV is still a very, very large reach medium. In fact, the single largest reach medium in the country I pointed out earlier. And we have been extremely bullish on television. We have been advertising very consistently on television for the last many, many years. We do almost one or two campaigns every month. The reason we have the confidence to do it is because it gives us immediate returns with a fair degree of measurability. I'll tell you how. So I think a lot of people are shying away from spending on television thinking about measurability, right? You advertise on television, you don't know what you get in return. There is no click data. There is no conversion data, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So measurability is a two-step process. You segregate the delta and you attribute it. And television advertising, if you do at a very large scale, there is a reasonable amount of segregatable delta that you can identify. And if you're not doing a lot of other mediums at a fair bit of scale, then you possibly have only one single intervention to attribute it to, which is television. So it's also about the kind of advertising you're doing, right? So the effectiveness of any campaign is dependent not just on the medium. It's also dependent on how you craft the creative. A lot of our creatives are very, very tactical in nature. They try to generate immediate demand. There is a very, very clear call to action and there is a high-value price point communicated, et cetera. So we see very, very real-time impact of television advertising, which is why we've been able to do it very, very consistently. Also, I think when we talk about integration, we're only talking about integration in terms of buying or planning, et cetera, right? There is another consumer behavior level integration that is happening already. So for example, people are watching TV. Earlier, they used to just watch TV and give it undivided attention. These days, they're watching TV and they're always fidgeting with their phones. They're either WhatsApping their friends. They're doing Instagram reels. They're checking work emails, et cetera, et cetera, right? So the phone is always handy and it's disengaged. So when you're watching something on the big screen on the television and the phone is disengaged and readily available, you might just want to check out a website if some communication appeals to you. And that's what we see in action. People watch our ads. Some of them are influenced by it. They log on to our website, generate a lead, buy a product. So it's very, very seamless. While at the same time, if you were to advertise on digital, if your category is a very big ticket, long planning category, non-impulsive, et cetera, et cetera, they might not want to, let's say, for example, stop the cricket match that they're watching just to go to your website or download your app. They don't want to disturb their experience. But if they're watching something on TV and the phone is free, they can still do that. You know, it's interesting. I think what we're taking out of the discussion that we're having is probably planning is still linear in nature and the ads happening in silos, in isolation, majority of it. What about content? It's an open question to everybody. You can, anyone can pick up. What about content? Is content contextual? Or are we still far away from creating contextual content for, you know, integrated mediums? It's an open question. I mean, anyone can take it. Yeah, go for it. I think a lot of strides have been made, you know, in terms of the way people are churning out content right now. Earlier it was always a TV-first content, saying that I run a 30-second ad, the same thing I translate into a digital. But I think that's no longer the case. I think people are curating a lot of content. People are customizing the content to meet the needs of the digital medium. So, for example, people have moved on to YouTube short, so there are insta-reals, you know, where you put the message up front, right? While in a TV ad, it's more about storytelling where you have a higher attention span. Digital, I mean, the attention span obviously is much more limited, right? So you put up your story right or the messaging right in the first five seconds to ensure that the person, for example, the attention span is not so low. Similarly, for example, a lot of people see, you know, your ads on mute, so you put up subtitles out there just to ensure that your messaging does not get lost. You know, so this are some of the things which I think a lot of things are happening, and obviously there's a lot of regional content which is getting created to, you know, address the nuances of the regional audiences. For example, you can see the growth of regional influences right now. You know, there's so many regional influences who have actually come into work right now because people, you know, kind of relate to it. Rather than you have, you know, influencer who kind of cuts across the country. So I think there's a lot of customization and a lot of content curation which is happening right now. But customization, content delivery, I mean, creation, I understand, but even in content delivery, do you feel that there is integration happening there? Yeah, so I mean, it's limited if you really ask me, for example, you know, CTV, I mean, you can select the genre on which you want the content to be, so that kind of customization can happen, right? YouTube, I think, still offers you a better, you know, kind of option in terms of I mean, there's a YouTube retargeting which you can do basis. I mean, there are certain keywords or, for example, there's certain kind of videos that you've been watching based on your history. I mean, it will serve you that kind of content. So I think a lot of strides are getting done, are being made even in that field. But yes, it's limited compared to the content curation which is happening right now. So anyone has a different opinion about this? So hurry from a content creator's perspective wherein we are creating content for television as well as for digital off-late. You know, the experiences that we've got is that if you're creating content for TV, let's say a GC channel, that is getting viewed on TV, but that is also getting viewed on a digital platform. You can call it an OTT of the same broadcaster or on YouTube because if you have missed an episode here, then naturally on demand you go and watch the episode there because you have great numbers on both the platforms, you know, for a single episode. Whereas if you're creating content just for a YouTube or an OTT platform, time has currently not come, it may come in the future, but time has not come that the same content if you put on TV you'll get the same numbers. Because the, like how he said about his daughter watches a certain part of content on television and also on digital, now she is a consumer of both the particular mediums, but she will have her own choice of what kind of content she wishes to watch on digital and what kind of content she wishes to watch on television. So TV content on digital yes, there are takers thanks to smartphone availability or affordable data, but the influence of kind of content which has grown a lot on digital which we are also creating in that space, whether I can replicate that on TV and get those GRPs, now that is a big question mark. And if some experiments have been made, but those are not very successful on TV. So I'll just chime in here. See, when you look at content there are two or three aspects that one needs to also look at. One is what is the format of the content itself? So if you make a video content, now that video content can then be adapted to several other platforms depending on what the propensity of the platform is, how the audience views the platform, like you don't want to play a 60 seconder on YouTube, you would want a 20 seconder, then you can run a non-skip. Very simple thing, in Insta format your real formats are different. So if there's a video content, you have to adapt it to the kind of platform that you want to be in. Then there is a second question is, at what stage of the customer journey is this content going to be consumed? So if you have created content around, let's say awareness, and if there's a second piece of content around consideration, then you start thinking about, okay, at what place is this consideration being built? Like in a category like us for furniture, a lot of consideration today is being built online. So a lot of my consideration is that content almost exclusively resides online, whereas a lot of my awareness-led content is mixed between a digital as well as a non-digital format. So these are some of the considerations that need to be there when you create content. So it is integrated at the brand level and at the objective level, the minute you start putting it out there at different platforms, that's where you have to start dividing and adapting it to different. Correct. I think there's a lot of contextuality that is coming through in terms of a lot of things that we're discussing. So let's put another layer of context. The India and Bharat divide. There is 30% TV dark. We live in a country which is 30% TV dark, which is probably on a different device, getting content delivered to a different ecosystem. What's your mood there? So where is Bharat? I mean the way anybody wants to define it. Where is India? Is it different? And do you all again, if your category caters to that particular market, do you deliver and plan differently for those places? Again, the conversation is integrated not in isolation. It's an open question. I mean anybody can take it. See, one of our recent campaigns, what we can see is at a 30% lesser delivery of impression in Bharat, you will get at least a 40% better incremental acquisition at a 14% lesser CPM. So that's the power of Bharat, which we generally tend to... Can you tell us which category you're talking about? I'm talking about a payment app. Coming from banking, I'll be hovering around this. So the reason I'm taking this is because we generally don't focus on Bharat-led campaigns. We generally make the whole campaign based on platform, which is let's say what's happening is, what we're seeing is the uptake in Bharat, be it in terms of digital consumption. If you see the growth in internet and digital is happening actually in double digits in Bharat and very single digit miniscular in, let's say, metro and tier one. So if we focus on Bharat, be it in terms of the platforms and the media efficiencies, I think there's a huge uptake in terms of acquisition uptake, performance uptake at a much lesser cost. That's what we are seeing. And given the Spence pattern, be it grocery, be it shopping, online shopping, be it usage of mobile banking channels, I think it is at least a 1x better than we see in the terms of percentage as compared to today's trending situation. So it's a very good population to kind of target over there. Anybody has a different view on this here? So I'll give you a very recent example. I think number one, India, Bharat, etc. I think mostly buzzwords. And people usually are talking about the consumer behavior, the buying behavior and content consumption behavior of metros versus tier two, tier three towns, etc. I'll give you a very recent example. So insurance is a very complicated category. A lot of very evolved customers from metro cities also are very hesitant to buy it online. Currently, we have a campaign running on TV, which is featuring the family of a term customer from a village 100 kilometers away from Patna. And not a very highly educated customer also. So somebody who's sitting in a village 100 kilometers away from Patna is buying a very very complicated category online. That tells you that the divide that we have created in our minds in terms of how evolved customers are in smaller towns versus metros, that gap is very very quickly bridging our minds. So how do we do that? Because of, you know, information, democracy and internet, etc. So, you know, let's move out of this integrated conversation, right? And let's, I mean, I don't know whether you guys like it or not, but let's talk about integrating or using technology in television, right? I don't know whether that is, there are a lot of people who come back with a bang, you know, digital screens, they're discussing digital data, right? Let's talk about television and the usage. Do you see any practice, any tech inducement into television that is going to change the way we will probably buy it? And hence there is no conversation about integrating because television itself in itself becomes, you know, tech first. Do you see that happening? There were some guys who tried it. I mean, there were people who were running on television. They'll pop up ads on your mobile phone. There were efforts that were there, you know, giving separate ads to separate TV households. Those efforts are there. Have you experienced it? Has it been effective? What is the sweet spot? What is the dream? Yes, yes. So, what I think we are discussing with Sameer only the, yeah, and he told me that, you know, now it is possible for certain channels where, you know, sitting out of a burly and sitting out of a burly, different ads can happen with certain channels. I think more and more we, if we see more and more sort of this, it's like a complete CTV package it will get. And this will surely add a different, different to open a lot of floodgates for advertisers because I really want to show a different content at a different price point for a particular individual sitting out of different areas. So that would, A, it will help me serve into the language which I want, B, the price point which I want and then, of course, the TV becomes digital is also able to do that. So that, that way, if it happens, I think Amagi and somebody tried it, what you were telling me about it. But I think if this comes into the market that would be a game changer. Of course, yes, it's important. How it comes in and at what scale is what we need to look at? You know, I think this targeted advertising about targeting your consumer very finely or very accurately and minutely will definitely help television and boost its, its headway and in terms of its life. Although we are not talking about the obituary of television any time soon. But at the end of the day, whether it's, it's so seamlessly possible on satellite linear television is a question which is not so finely answered. But yeah, that the same thing is very much possible and we have seen it offshoots in terms of connected and addressable TV and the number is also growing if we take the data about 32 million and if that continues to grow then naturally that could be an answer to it and whereas you are on television viewing the same content, just that also in a linear format, but just that for the marketers and for the advertisers it is more addressable. So I kind of agree that, you know there are a lot of things first which will have to happen. One is your smart TV penetration has to grow at a very rapid scale much faster than it does right now. Internet and bandwidth and data continues to be extremely cheap. Third is I think addressable TV we've seen, you know, the best adopting it in a big way for the last five to seven years and it's a billion-dollar industry out there at the moment and if that comes in a lot of back-end challenges have to be addressed for that. Delivery of TV on a cloud or on internet overall will need to happen. Linear TV schedule programming, whether it will ever be able to do that, I'm not an expert there, I'm not entirely certain it will but when it comes to addressable TV and shifting all then TV just becomes a screen. It's one of the screens in the household with four of the screens and the entire household is then profiled and the use case that he mentioned about Borivali and Goregaon and having different ads is entirely possible when you start mapping household through addressable TV and addressable devices. So I think that holds promise because then you are not buying GRPs and then you're not buying CPMs and then trying to figure out how both of them have worked together for a deduplicated manner you're buying household reach individually through one currency. So that single currency becomes extremely critical. I think addressable TV holds promise. It started in India let's see how that goes. What stage do you think we are at? I mean on a scale of one to ten let's do that because I just feel overall somebody sitting next to me. Great timing. So I'm just saying which stage are we because if I'm sitting in the audience I would think that we are fan sitting at a lot of stages. On a scale of one to ten where are we on this team of integration. Is it a one two ten line? As in I think from understanding or maybe to appreciate the need and maybe this is I think the very first discussion that's happening on integrated approach. So I think it's a very nascent stage. Beat the tools. As you are rightly saying not many tools are available starting from planning to measuring the efficacy of it joint efficacy of it. So I think in a very nascent stage but it has to go in the way where it's an integrated planner. So be it from a stakeholder, the client side, the brand side appreciating understanding even the teams has to be integrated in such a way that they appreciate integrated media and that's how they are scaled up towards it. Otherwise it's always a TV versus digital even today if you see the comparison is TV digital spends are almost kind of beating TV spends. So it has to be and and that's why it will be a very interesting space to be in. So I agree with what jahid is saying. So if you ask me we are maybe at one or two as far as integrations because obviously we do not have a unified measurement system today. Where is there one body you can tell you that this is what you spend in television and this is what it's giving you right now. So yeah we are at that stage similarly what he's saying in terms of ensuring that when we do the planning it's always like a TV versus a digital. It's not like a TV and a digital because you obviously can't I mean there are systems which are but I mean how robust they are everybody knows. So yes if you ask me we are very nascent stage but I am hopeful that with the advancement in technologies whatever that we're doing maybe one day we'll be able to think TV and digital together. You know it's interesting to discuss category but I'm sure there are some people here who are in entry level of their career some mid management some CXOs what do you think what is the approach that one takes in terms of training and keeping themselves ready to enter this world you know I'm sure because I end up meeting a lot of people who said at the right time they should jump in digital how do we ensure that we don't have this conversation five years from now how does this audience do that do you have any tips and tricks on that how do you up skill also train yourself to ensure that you're ready for this world I mean it could be individual it could be at an organization level because you know we need mindset shifts and these cannot be done in an incremental manner So I think all marketers are here and I would like to tell you it is important to get your agency to think from a completely seamless point of view you need to push them to get a plan which avoid duplication of reach that's first second point which you really need to look into point is you know what are the cost efficiencies also getting on to the win and then of course the reach which we are getting so I think it starts with us only where we need to push people saying that this is what I'm expecting out of it and then measuring the performance in that manner so that's what I at least I do regularly and I started on this journey also a lot of this the guys either are native digital or they have been TV so it's also time that the same person understands and appreciates both the platforms and in nuance detail right so once you start understanding the measurement matrix and the success ratio of a TV and digital I think that's where you will be holding a very strong position to say how each of them is creating a significant impact because today like lets influence marketing okay somebody is an influencer specialist influences doing a significant job in terms of my baseline organic growth okay which TV used to do right so how are TV with an influencer with an OTT spread with the CTV is doing and so that's a kind of growth the individuals have to kind of start training themselves into yeah so I I have one last point to make sorry this this conference is called the TV first conference and we have spent the most amount of time talking digital so I would just like to make one passing comment that I'm a huge proponent of television I think this whole caught cutting debate and TV dying etc is a very valid argument in the US where the average household pays about $150 per month for cable in India it's 200 rupees and the entire family watches their entire set of entertainment be it sports movies kids all of that right so we are still very very far away from the death of TV TV is still holding on very strong even though there is a marginal you know decrease in share etc in the last one year especially so yeah just that I hope I'm also addressing Kailash's complaint right so we just open it up to the audience to ensure that if there are any open pointers that can get cleared do we have questions yeah yes I have a familiar face Hina can someone please send the mic her way please someone the girl who gave me the postage please you know why don't you help me do that anybody let me do it no no it's okay yeah Hina what's your question okay thanks for all the take I think we had some great takeaways my question is that today with you know India being Atma Nirbhar and a lot of home grown brands are actually only growing through digital medium an example I have is of Mama Earth nobody really knew that brand and today launched its own IPO so it was a digital built brand so don't you think that there is going to be like a there is going to be a chunk of brands that might not want to use television and only grow and reach through digital and then if they even do use TV it's just going to be for the Tom Tom effect or maybe aspirational that okay and then on TV as well so don't you see that shift very evident in you know a lot of small SMEs specially and startups Hina is it addressed to somebody in specific or anybody can anybody can take that out right yeah Jai wants to take it all in see Mama Earth became famous because Ghazal Allah came in Shark Tank which was on TV and it's an advance to it Shark Tank people actually have started paying to feature over there because they've got an interesting take the brand comes into highlight so again I think it's never TV versus digital maybe a lot of the fintech guys because of the expense of it they want to start they want to grow in a very cost effective manner digital obviously promises very cost effective measurements centricity right and you can see the immediate result out over there and then after one point of time and take all the D2C brands okay they have to then they kind of even if you want to go for a larger reach larger spread you then go to the TV so it's a beat sequential beat kind of you know simultaneous at one point of time it's integrated media that comes in handy you know also gaming companies they heavily advertise on television going by the mama logic they would only be advertising on digital but they do understand that a large chunk of the the viewers that they want to target as their subscribers or as the people who have downloaded their apps and playing their apps are on television like they are also a digital first company but majority of the amount that they spend is on television so that is the medium which currently is giving them the maximum reach so I represented digital brand and 80 to 90 percent of my brand budgets are on TV it could I just think it could also be just a function of the cost of entry right digital provides you a reasonably lower cost of entry you could do hyper local you could set up a social media account you could do performance marketing you could target a few cities with a small budget it could be reasons could be as simple as that whereas TV has a certain threshold if you don't touch the threshold it's super inefficient you might as well not do it so it could also be just a function of the kind of budgets you have could be as simple as that thank you so much I'm so sorry Mr. Pillai we might have to cut it on this fun but we'd like a closing part from you if you'd like to say something no I think I kind of agree with what you said we're on a TV panel we're discussing a lot of digital but the idea really is is there an opportunity for technology to eventually play a role on television and do what technology did to digital the same impact can it bring the same impact on television digital buying is important because it is providing contextuality it is providing speed it is providing an opportunity to customize now if that same opportunity comes alive on television will that then become a much larger war between the largest platform that's available a legacy platform that's available a platform that even digital first brands believe in right will that become a much bigger juggernaut than what it really is so it's from maybe it's integration maybe it's application so the question really is is it integration or application that we will probably be discussing maybe 3 years from now we'll be having that panel but today as we see it I think we are sitting on the fence we are in very very early stage we are probably just forming far away from storming, norming or performing we are in very very early stages and we'll wait and watch till that time it will be a digital versus TV but eventually I think it is going to be digital with TV and as going forward probably TV will become maybe much more powerful with the integration of digital so I think that's what we can take away