 There is a bit of a paradox that you want to depoliticize institutions of learning on one hand and you want to engage politicians as well as those who are in power to influence change in how education is delivered in our institutions. Don't you think that's a bit of a paradox? Because I see a situation where you want more and more rapport or engagement with the state especially, not the opposition where we are now, but where we were previous, where our friends are now and that is what you'd like to be enhanced. So if we're going to let you go free and as government or opposition we say no leave them away from politics how then we engage. So I think this is the difficulty you may find yourselves in and this is the difficulty probably the colleagues who are running government are finding themselves in because one minute you would be saying you know the cost of living is too high that is a political statement and the one who can tell whether the cost of living is too high is a student because he's coming from a home he's coming from the community he knows the cost of living because he feels it. So if you do that to me who is sitting in state house to me with the opposition as president I see that's a political statement and if anyone help everybody with it is to my cause I would encourage you. So if I sit just in smacking up animosity and desire to bring me down and say he's being too political can you deal with him so you see what I'm talking about this is the biggest challenge you face as students including when you talk about freedoms yes you are free they'll give you freedom and I think I'm an advocate for freedom but at the end of the day you find that when you freely speak on politics and you support me I'll say no you're not being political but when you freely speak on politics and you injure my status or my situation or my vision I say no that's being too political you're not supposed to be political because of the problem but your findings are genuine legitimate and I can only say that let's find a way of airing them so that we all get to know and I'm surprised that you are craving for student participation decision making at the level of the institution I've heard of schools here in Zambia where they pick a student Elena from grade four grade five grade six classes and say you sit with the teachers and listen to them and they make certain decisions so that you are able to tell them what you're thinking of your class they call them counselors or senators and some schools and so on it's happening and those of you go to these schools which I may call it it is that was very common but I don't know what is happening and she should go primary school but these are things which we should be no victim and the creative and the be ready to say look this is a normal situation it has never happened and like you have said in your slogan nothing about us without us is true because you'll be able to know me like that one says or even I said you proclaim that you have increased me last but it's not enough then they would tell you know your source not enough where the sources are coming from the association but how do we begin increasing your budgetary requirements for me at once at the same time when the envelope is depleting then you may point out that why don't you cut down on your trips that kind of thing because that's what come out of dialogue so so I think that I don't want to to to to take the the positives out of this from what you have said there's a lot of positivity and I can only pray that those in power now want to listen to you because without your support nothing will work just the other day I said something about free education I'm a product of free education myself and free education meant I used to get books from school I used to to get even in the middle we used to get news given to us milk and some some some biscuits started at break and so on that is true but the resources may not be there the question is if the resources are not there for the government the government should begin revisiting its budgetary allocation and say which are the priority areas and for me education it should be a bigger chunk of the budget and the of course they're competing needs the security the health there is all these things coming through but unless we begin engaging students we will have a difficulty because we think students are unruly they are being influenced by the political forces they are against us and so on but I would like to just speak one little thing in the last two and a half years that have been out of office there has been what has been introduced as free education in Zambia and just the other day I said they are be mourning the quality of free education because I saw little children in classrooms in a room like sardines and so on that came after I spoke but my worry is the quality of free education did you think about it the quality of education from grade one to grade seven grade seven to this grade 12 and in these special institutions did you address that are you happy with the quality of education you encountered in lower level grade one to seven grade seven to 12 grade the beyond that did you focus on that if you didn't please focus on that and help me advocate for quality education because that is what I was calling for I was not saying that this is crap free education and then you know when I talk about quality education it came very much with those who trend the media as media practitioners because the media practitioner is supposed to be aiming for truth all the time and no one is challenging them to say where did he say this in what context did he say this can I have a voice by it or whatever you call it or a video clip to show that the man said I would do out with free education so I began at that point questioning the quality of education in the media fraternity those who train journalists are you sure this is the quality of education a journalist would say I'm happy with it if I was a journalist the first thing I would say was wait a minute wait a minute did that man say that where did he say that was there in the media professional president give me a footage give me a recording and so and then we'd go through it and then I'll say yeah I think by implication he said this so then let's take him on or if they're not clear you say president or they want to call me for my president for my president but once president was present no so so they would say president what did you mean when you say this is out of elaborate then when I make myself clear then you would say this is what the gentleman said let's talk about it and then you can begin now tearing me apart and the heading headlines and so on and so forth but the quality of education of course does not end up with journalists it ends up with lawyers it ends up with doctors it ends up with the engineers why do we have washed out bridges every so often it's because of the quality of education we're offering in the engineering sector and people offer quality education in that area who have people of integrity who will be able to do professional work which will last which will save people money and the so for your research I think that you should have a bit further I hope you did go further to look at the quality of education in instances which can be categorized as professionals lawyers are they getting good education are we getting good lawyers quality education if they're paying fees the fees with it if it's free education does it mean we should just sacrifice and such free education therefore we could bring out if I go to university which is privately funded the quality of education will be revealed in the workmanship skills that I'll have it is goes the same if I go to a public institution and I bring out I don't know what I don't know what way to use I bring out and hold some performance people will say I'd rather have graduates from this institution working for me and graduates from that institution you begin now bringing down the quality of education you begin now despising that institution and people begin saying I'd rather send my child to a public school or a private school because what I'm seeing is the way feed and so so in a research like this I think he I know that you haven't had time to go into detail to give me what you're finding that but I thought I should take advantage of this opportunity to just clarify that quality education should be quality education if it's free the government should spend more for the pre-education that people are able to equal the expectations of the syllabus and then at the end of the day produce quality citizens who will be able to deliver as a medical doctor it's a medical doctor for whether you're coming from uh lady one hour so you're coming from any other medical institution in the country if you're a lawyer you're going to produce quality legal services whether you're coming from a private university or a public university and so so all I say I can say is thank you very much for this and I don't want to take out if the problem is if I talk no matter what you say they will crash everything and they'll help you say this but I hope that the media will pick what you said because what you said is very important this is what has provoked me to say what I've said so if only we can listen to you because we cannot govern and run schools and universities without you successfully probably can be better so media guys please ensure that you give a headline to these people not long again long again okay so thank you so much unless the addition you wish to make what we did for ourselves you have been able to evaluate I know that we were there up to 2021 our friends have been there from 2021 to now and you should be able to compare and contrast and it's so contrasting you'll be able to help those who are in power what they can do better without even necessarily having to beat our drum and say oh guys the previous guys did better because that is what they don't want to hear they don't want to hear so you wish to say something what of thanks unless you have to say you have to say the report must be very lengthy I would like to have a copy can you help me get a copy of the full report once it is released and so it will help us but quality education should be quality education right and then students should participate I agree with you but whether that should be registered I don't know whether that should be just a custom in the institution we belong to some universities do it after a custom some schools do it out of who do you for the parents have insisted but others probably have it in the regulations dean of students and all these things begin wiggling and then you have quality senates and so on so thank you so much