 Welcome back to The Breakfast on Plus TV Africa. Our next conversation is going to be on the controversy surrounding the screening and nomination of Loretta Onoche as a INEC Commissioner for Delta State. This morning we're going to be speaking first with Mr. Ibrahim Oshinowo, who's a risk management expert. Thank you very much for joining us. Good morning to you, sir. Good morning. Good morning, gentlemen and my beautiful sister there. Good morning, everyone. I'm going to start with your reactions, but I want to share something from former Senator Shehussani. He sent out a message saying Loretta is outrightly undeserving of being a commissioner in INEC. Her presence in the electoral body will undoubtedly question his credibility and independence. Her denial before the screening committee is baseless. She's a partisan agent of the ruling party, period. Do you agree with him and what are your thoughts? That's from Senator Shehussani, right? Yes, it is. Anyway, our first of first good morning to the Nigerians and everybody in the studio. First, we are in a democracy where the 1999 Constitutional Ascended guarantees everybody's participation in one national duty or the other. But don't forget that Senator Shehussani was actually a civil right activist. He has never been a politician and in some of his quotes in early 1998-1990, but precisely 2000, let me use 2000, at the start-up of this democracy, the Fourth Republic, he said he would never participate in any political inquiry. But unfortunately for him, he exacted the senatorial ticket of Cardinal Central. He was elected senator and today is an activist in politics and in fact, of course, he is now a full politician. Now, coming back to Laurel Townsend, the Constitutional is very clear. Am I being a political party today and tomorrow am I deciding I'm not in? I'm not going to participate in any political arrangement. It does not stop Mr. President of appointing me as an official of IME. As long as I can openly renounce my political participation in any political party, the Constitutional said, shall not be in any political arrangement. That's not the precise word, but shall is there. But Laurel Townsend said that she has not, she has stopped being politically active in politics since 2019 and that's almost three years ago. So if people who does not enjoy or her face is intimidating a lot of them, come out and bring 2007, 2011 picture, 2019 picture, 2017, 2016 picture to damage her reputation. I think the whole lies of Mr. President to follow what the law says and I'm very, very sure that Mr. President must have checked to the Constitutional and Laurel must have met all the circumstances and the prescriptions of the Constitutional before she was nominated. Secondly, the RECA is not the only one that has partially, partially participated in political arrangement. In my next question, and I can make initial names, including the former chairman of IME. So what are we talking about? Okay, Mr. Ibrahim. I'm integrity, is it enough? Has it been found wanting in any capacity? Has it been tried in any criminal offenses? I'm not sure that is right. So I don't want us to go into sentiment of what people are saying. Mr. Ibrahim, give us a minute. First of all, I want to quote a section of the Constitution here about who should be a member of INEC or not. Now, this is according to paragraph 14 of part one of the third schedule to the Constitution as amended by section 30 acts number one of 2010. It says that a member of INEC shall be non-Patterson. Now that we have that fact on the ground, talking about Loretta Onoche and her political involvement, you said like Loretta denied three times during her screening yesterday that she is not a member of any political party. But we have facts of Onoche actually being involved in politics. Even though you have said it's partial, there's a tweet we have from 2014, June 24, 2020. This was last year when Loretta Onoche went on to say that informing Nigerians of an INEC meeting the next day, June 25, Loretta Onoche went on to say we, and by we she was talking about the APC, she said we are going through a growth process and she put up a picture of the logo of APC. I don't know how you describe that as partial involvement in politics, but it's involvement anyway. If Onoche claims to have left the APC in 2019 and was seeing affiliation to the APC a year later in 2020, don't you think that really casts doubt on her stance that she's no longer an APC member and in fact casts doubt on her non-Patterson claim? Can you give me one evidence in 2020 that Loretta has actively participated in learning politics? Can you bring one of two evidences out for me? I just gave you one. The fact that, 2014, we said Rahim, this is a message you put out, she put this message out last year in the heat of the COVID-19 pandemic, it was last year, 2020. And what was the content of the message? She was informing Nigerians of an INEC meeting the next day. I respect media a lot, I respect media a lot, I was on interview on the program yesterday and I was telling them that look, we have to stop being sensational in this country, especially, I love media, especially media needs to be, you know, we have been clamoring for investigative journalism so that journalists can have facts and figures when you want to prosecute somebody or you want to, you know, go by the trend of, you know, sentiment by the populist. Now, if you are saying Loretta had the right to make comment on any political party, either APC, PDP. We've seen a 16 INEC member still serving, since PDP days, making comments on political issues, it doesn't mean he or she is a member of the political party. Why don't you allow APC to say, okay, Loretta Noche is our member? If she says, if she says. Why don't you allow PDP to say Loretta Noche is our member? Mr. Osho Noho. These are the facts. I wonder, you know, I was discussing with, Kenya Osho has been my colleague before in the state government. We started the government in the state in 2011 together. And this is the same sentiment people and media are putting out to Nigeria that she has done this, she has done this, she has done this, she has done this. Mr. Osho Noho, can you hold on? At the end of the day, he says that when you say, Mr. Osho Noho. Mr. Osho Noho, can you hold on? Mr. Osho Noho, can you hold on, please? When you say sentiments by the media, we're simply sharing with you things that Loretta Noche herself put out. There's no sentiment. It is messages that she put out on Twitter by herself. She posted these things on Twitter by herself. There is a court judgment from 2021 where she's won oath saying that she is a member of the APC and a member of the Buhari support organization. That's not from the media. We haven't done anything yet. We're simply sharing with you what she herself has said and tweeted and posted by herself. So what sentiments are you referring to? And we're simply asking you, doesn't that show partisanship if you can still hear us? A lot of people can post anything on the internet now, a lot of people can change your face. People in the opposition can change your face. I'm sorry. Say this is what you're saying. Okay, let's introduce the PDP publicity secretary, Mr. Kola Lugudio. Good morning, Mr. Lugudio. Thank you for joining us. Thank you very much. Good morning, and good morning, ITX. All right. So we're speaking about Loretta Noche and her denial of APC membership. Mr. Oshino mentioned just a few seconds ago that maybe the court judgment was forged. The PDP will sing your response. No, I didn't say that. Okay. Could you clarify what you mean when you say anybody can post anything and that people's faces... I'm referring to the tweets you have mentioned. I'm referring to the tweets you have mentioned. Kola here is my very good brother. Kola is the one that was shouting or saying that came here as sports, came here as sports, came here as sports. Kola has never come back to the public and said, I apologize to Kemi Adiosho for laying the false allegation against her. But the conversation this morning was... The conversation is not about Kemi Adiosho and their steering. If I may comment. All right, go ahead. And only to apologize because the court decision did not put that on for sure. So you must get this clear and rightly too. The court ruled, in case you are not aware, like Davis who already said, the court ruled that she did not need to do good service. The court did not say PDP forged anything. Ah, put that aside. Coming to the issue of Loretta Honoche is an absurdity as a Nigerian for you to stand anywhere and defend Loretta Honoche and I'm very disappointed in that. Because Loretta by herself, not you, not the APC, not the Buhari presidents, Loretta by herself went to court and swore to Agnafidabi on oath. And that in itself as you know is a plenary. And the matter is still in court as we are speaking. And Loretta Honoche did not go to court to withdraw the matter. Loretta Honoche did not lie to the court to say that her claim by herself, her claim by herself, that she was a member of APC. She was withdrawing it or she regretted it. She did not opt to do it. Opt to yesterday when he appeared before the Senate. Loretta Honoche has no way of showing Nigerians the resignation letter. And Mr. Oshino, are you aware that Loretta said that since 2019 she had not got involved in any kind of political, any kind of partisanship. The oath that she swore before the court was done in 2020. Are you aware? So I do not think that we should get too involved or too passionate about this matter. It is clear before every Nigerian that Loretta is an APC member. Loretta, laid the claim by herself, she was cross-examined in court. She had tested. That's an APC member. On the aspiration to be appointed into ILE, she denied her own life. Why are you coming out to the public to defend her? Mr. Oleg Godinio, I want us to make the facts clear for people who do not understand to get a grasp of the subject matter here because the bone of contention really is about Honoche being a member of the APC or any other political party. So the question I have for you, Mr. Oleg Godinio, is what impact does her political leaning or what impact would her political leaning have on any election that she presides over as a national commissioner? Be a polluted election. It would be an election in the favor of APC. Whether APC won the election or not, is to go and make declarations on the side of APC. And like I have consistently asked. Listen, how can a partisan person be a nonpire? It's simple. It's common knowledge. It's wisdom. Is it possible that a partisan person will go and preside over an issue in which a party is involved and will have the right sense of judgment? It's simple. It's logic. It's simple. It's wisdom. It's not possible. So what the political parties and Nigerians are saying is that President Obama is worried to search for a Nigerian who does not hold membership of any political party as prescribed in the 1999 constitution as amended and upon such a person. And what we are saying and what Nigerians are also saying is that the Senate should not confirm a partisan Nigerian who holds membership of a political party as an arbiter or a commissioner in Islay. Because Islay, we are told, is called Independent National Electoral Commission. A member of APC assays to be an independent minded person. Okay, let's begin with that. A former member of APC, a former member of APC. She's one member who's not a member of APC. Please hold on for a minute. Please hold on for a minute. I want to throw it back to you. So you basically are saying that all these allegations made against Lorita Onouchi, that she's a member of the APC, all these allegations made against her are based on sentiment. I want you to explain how do you mean that they're based on sentiment and also are you saying that Nigerians can trust an election that Loreta Onoche is involved in? Please go ahead Mr. Ayoshina. Please, let me clarify what my dear brother here all I say. First, I tell you the PDP under which a second is, whole Kemi Amioshu, a great national apology, you are premium style, you need to apologize immensely for defaming our character. Of course, it's left you delay to sue PDP and premium style for forging that you have alleged because the court has never found Kemi being forged of any document. I could remember, I was on national TV that Kola personally alleged Gina, which is a condo, giving press conference to ask for Kemi's resignation. Mr. Ayoshina, the conversation this morning has nothing to do with Kemi Amioshu. PDP is not a live party. Mr. Ayoshina, the conversation this morning has nothing to do with Kemi. Yes, we just want you to go back to Loreta Onoche. Let me clarify, sure, you live in Obstruct Kola now, let me make my own case too. He's not in PDP's place, he's not in Kola. We're struggling to get sound from Ibrahim Oshinova this morning. The conversation is on Loreta Onoche's nomination and of course screening as an Aina commissioner for Delta State. And Ibrahim Oshinova says it really shouldn't be a problem and this is all based on sentiments. The PDP Kola would of course says otherwise. We hope that we can quickly reconnect with both of them and get the conversation going. But Mr. Aleppojiya, do we still have you there? Okay, we have unfortunately lost both our guests, we'll try to reconnect with them. But this issue is very important because we're talking about 2023. We heard from the British government putting our warnings about the risk of the elections and just everything involved in the electoral process. Mr. Aleppojiya, can you hear me? I hear you. Okay, Mr. Oshinova, can you hear us? Yes, I'm here. Please go ahead. Yes, I can hear you. Please, I would like you and David James to allow me to explain when it comes to our research. Now, it's not in PDP's place or Kola's place. Based on their previous offended allegation against the MPC member to say Loreta is the MPC member into what MPC is doing. MPC should call it and say court cases. PDP can approach the court to say this, that, that, that. You refer to section 14 of the constitution that's amended. The constitution says it does not emphasize that that person must be a former member or a present member. Loreta can be a member of PDP. The same way, Aminoz Zakari has been a member of PDP. And she will say. Today, Aminoz Zakari is still serving as an Iraqi member of a former PDP member. to be one of many, and she's qualified to be on that seat. She's going to be just among many who are coming from other regions. Why don't color and which is second was asked Amino Sacare to decide. Jeddah was part of June 12th and was there. Jeddah was actively participating in SDP. He was appointed into INET. Alright, it's a struggle gets into here from... So what is my job? I'm losing a lot of credit for INET official. Hello. Yes, go ahead. We're struggling with your network. Go ahead. Hello. I cannot show you. Color to focus on why Amino Sacare is still in INET today. She's a former member of the PDP. Alright, Missa, look what you have. Even Jeddah is now participating in politics. Jeddah was actively involved in June 12th movement. He was part of that and was appointed. So Loretta is not the chairman of INET or God's sake. Loretta will be one of many. What Nadia means to do that? Is she going to be a trust worthy, a distance Nadia... Do you think she will? She will 100%. She's not a member. That's why I say color cannot determine. Let's say Loretta is our member. Or is Loretta a PDP member? Amino is a PDP member and he was appointed by President Jonathan. Despite all the noise and national cry about Amino Sacare. Alright. She was appointed by the PDP and she's still in INET today. Missa, quickly respond. Honestly, I just don't know what to say about his claims. Because in one breath, he said that PDP opposes Amino Sacare. In another breath, he said Amino Sacare was a member of PDP. And here he said PDP also, and you truly don't know what to make of his argument. But our position in the People's Democratic Party is very clear and unambiguous. And it's also reverberated with Nigerian's position. Which is that a card carry member of any political party, including the People's Democratic Party, cannot be appointed as an editor in INET. And in the public space, Nigerians are aware that Loretta Onoche is number two in world four of a Neochaduka government in their testing on the register. Nigerians are aware that more recently, even the most recently, that Loretta Onoche went to a high court in Abudia here, swore to Anavida on oath that he's a member of the Uprogresses Congress and also a volunteer supporter for Bwari Media Organization. Having said that, she went back to the court to affirm her statement on oath that she's a member of the Uprogresses Congress. Only just because she had been nominated to go to INET, she denied EPC three times before the committee. Prior to her appearance in the, before the committee, we have no history. Nigerians have no history of Loretta saying that she's not a member of EPC. So I do not believe, and my party does not believe, and Nigerians also do not believe that a duplicitous character should be appointed into high leg as commissioner. Okay. And that's it. Mr. Alec Abudio, I need to ask you because this whole issue began when the president nominated Loretta Onoche as an commissioner in October 2020. So would you say that the route course, and you know where this should have ended is that the president in the first place should not have nominated Loretta Onoche number one, and also how does this issue end? You know, beyond asking the Senate to not confirm has any commissioner, would you also say or pressure the presidency to withdraw his nomination, you know, of Loretta Onoche? The people in the Democratic Party and Nigerians are also this issue before Mr. Prescott. And even before the president of the Senate, Ahmad Lauer, that look, can they return this nomination? And we must also recall that the nomination of Loretta Onoche first came to the Senate some eight months ago. And there was an opera by Nigerians, not just the People's Democratic Party, that no, Mr. President, you cannot do this to our democracy. Don't kill our democracy. Don't bring a country member of your party to Aineka Sanabita as a commissioner. And the Senate, in her wisdom, withdrew that nomination and kept it. Eight months after, perhaps in their own thinking, the two Nigerians have forgotten they brought back the same nomination. And the opera has continued. It's not about PDP. It's about Nigerians. It's about the electoral process. It's about making Mr. President committed to his position that he will ensure a free, fair, credible and transparent election from our office elections to the 23rd elections. And we have seen that Nigerians are just simply saying, Mr. President, follow your own words. Don't begin to pollute the process of our electionary by bringing somebody who is a country member of your party to the commission that supervises their election. The matter is straightforward. It is simple. There are millions of Nigerians out there that Mr. President can nominate, who are very apolitical, who nobody will be able to stand and challenge. However, my brother was saying that a woman who went to court to go and swear on oath that she's a member of a political party. Who was called for cross-examination in the same court and she reaffirmed her membership. Just in 2020, the same woman will go before the parliament, before the committee on INE and make a declaration that since 2019, she has never belonged to any party. She has never participated in any political meetings or any institution. We are launched by her own hands and in her own signature in 2020. So these are two concepts. The important matter is that the reputation of the nomination of all our chair is questionable. And we do not need any character that is questionable in the INE. Mr. Ashina, we are almost out of time, but I want you to quickly respond to the facts and the signed documents that show that she has agreed that she is an APC member and a member of the Buhari support organization just a couple of months ago in 2020. Do you think that is relevant in this conversation and isn't that enough to show that she is actually a member of the APC and partisan? And also, why can't the president nominate somebody else? Seeing the uproar that this is caused. Of course, it is not in the PDP's place to determine who is an APC member. We should stop focusing into what the system is. Let me make my point very clear to the PDP's spokesperson. You have enough of issues in your party to monitor than looking at what Mr. President has said. Mr. Ashina, what does the court document signed by Loretta on her chair? I'm coming to that. You did allow me to make my case. We are out of time. I want you to go through it. I will address what Kola has said. All right. All right. It seems we may have lost Ibrahim Ashina once again. And of course, Kola Ulubudion. Both. Mr. Kola, okay, I think we still have Mr. Ulubudion. If you are there, can you... Mr. Ashina was back. We will have to forget of the federal public to do that as they get. Let's have PDP's job. After that, we will see what is going on as what is not. That is what I'm saying to my dear brother. We should allow the Senate to work the sentiment that they were are. Loretta, they believe that it's coming to INAG to do one thing or the other. But I cannot show you, he's not doing anything for APC. If the 2023 election were to be called today. APC will win last try, especially in the PDP's stronghold. So I will call it PDP to focus more on the government decision. It should bring cases for government decision. Noreta is not a threat to PDP. PDP has a lot of issues. Mr. Oshinowo. PDP has gone to court. Please, let me finish. We're running out of time. No, Noreta has no... Mr. Oshinowo. Mr. Oshinowo, you know, we've had lots of deflections that have taken a lot of our time, but I want us to go directly into this last question, Mr. Oshinowo. Why so much insistence on Noreta Onoche? Are there no other persons who can fill that role? My dear brother, Mr. Kola, you know that is the prerogative of the president. If the president chooses to appoint Kola Lombardia as a minister, and today he will appoint him, it's not a big deal, that is his prerogative. He can appoint Kola Lombardia as a minister of information. That's why he appoints us in PDP. That's the constitution. He's the prerogative of the president. He's not prerogative of Oshinowo. He's not prerogative of Kola. He can force anything on his troops. What I'm asking Mr. Oshinowo is... You have been elected, newly elected by Nigeria. Mr. Oshinowo, I'm not asking about the president's nomination. I'm asking about people like you, who are solidly behind Noreta Onoche, being confirmed as an accomplice. Why the insistence on her? Because I think Mr. President believes that she has the characteristics. All these allegations are made by the pastor. There are no criminal records. If Mr. Kola can give me one criminal record against Noreta Onoche... I actually have one that I'm looking at. I actually have one that I'm looking at. She has been actively delegating those educational programs she has managed. Alright, Mr. Oshinowo. So, my junior brother knows what he's doing. He's just a new participant. That's all. Mr. Oshinowo, thank you very much. Thank you very much. He's the prerogative of the president to select a quality person, you know. Kola Oluwudion, thank you so much for your time this morning. I enjoyed the conversation with you both. We look forward to speaking with you both again. We wish you a great weekend. Thanks for speaking with me. Thank you. Have a great day. Thank you very much. You're welcome. OK, so yes, that was definitely the PDP, National Publicity Secretary, and Mr. Oshinowo Ibrahim there. I really can't wait to see the end of this matter with the president because everything seems to have two options to end. Either the president withdraws the nomination of Noreta Onoche or the Senate fails to confirm that. But that's it for today. That's where we wrap up the conversation. Thank you very much for joining us. I am Osao-gi Ogbon. And I'm Annetta Felix, asking you to have a great weekend.