 So this month, uh, and we're bringing this back, it's been a long time since we've done this, uh, and it's a great time because we've got a lot of cool shirts right now is for either one of our big bundles, the RGB or the Super Bundle with that purchase, you actually get your choice of any two shirts you want for under a dollar. Under a dollar for both? Yeah, and the reason why that's even that is because actually the system doesn't even allow Doug to put it for zero. So he had to mark it off for 99%, which I think it makes it like 26 cents, I think for each one. Yeah, so for under almost under 50 cents, you're getting two shirts of your choice. Um, and for as long as they last, so that's, uh, you guys got to get on there and make sure you guys, uh, grab that right away. And then you get, I believe an email, right, Doug? We'll get sent over to them, which will give them the code. The link or whatever to get those two shirts? Yeah, the link and the code to go over to, uh, Big Cartel and then pick whatever shirts that they want. So the RGB bundle is MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance, MAPS Aesthetic put together. It's nine months of exercise programming and it's discounted. Discounted pretty big. It's like over 20 something percent off. The Super Bundle includes those plus MAPS Anywhere at MAPS Prime and then it takes like 30 something percent off. So enroll, enroll in either one of those and get two shirts for almost free. You can find those at MindPumpMedia.com. If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. MindPump, MindPump with your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews. Man, I'm, uh, I'm a hype and excited for, uh, the kettlebell competition this weekend, man. This is going to be, oh my gosh, it's coming. We got what, a hundred, almost a hundred competitors. It went, it went, it became like one of the biggest ones. How, what'd you guys think about those, uh, trophies? Those are sick. Yeah, they're cool. Yeah. I thought that was going to like those a lot. How'd you get them to make a cast of your penis? Yeah, that was, uh, kind of expensive. It's functional, too. A lot of material that we had to use. So the ladies. No, we did, uh, something pretty, pretty cool. I'm excited. It's not bad. It's a serious battle axe, man. So it's, uh, it looks pretty dope. And I liked it because it was different. You know, in, in men's physique, we used to get these swords, right? If you, which I never won, I was really pissed. Why don't you want a sword? You got to win. You got to win. Who doesn't want a sword? No, I wanted a sword. Oh, you were pissed. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I didn't get one. I wanted one. Absolutely fucking wanted one. If you win a sword, you won the whole show overall, which, you know, even if you get first, first place, you still got to beat the overall, right? So that's like when, you know, Arnold and, you know, Colombo always went against each other, right? So they always, and he, Arnold always took him for the, for the overall and, but Franco always won like his class. Short class or whatever. Yeah. But you get a ninja star. I get a fucking sword. Yeah. It is. Oh shit. It's a, it's a total, like there's no, that's what I'm saying. It's like a badass sword. You get like nothing, dude. You'll get nothing for a second. Oh man. You just get a fucking handshake. A little, little BB or BB. Second place is a set of steak knives. You guys see our boy, Arya too. He just took second place on his last, he's going to nail, this is a, Again? So three shows within 28 days. He did? Yeah. Dude, he's a mad man. You know what's, you know what's crazy? How do you keep that up? I got a question. I was just going to ask you Adam, do you think it's easier for him to be able to do that? Cause he's natural. You know, like to kind of stay in shape and stay lean. Do you think maybe has less weight fluctuations? Or do you think maybe the benefit of just knowing his body better? Well, yeah, I would say, I would give him more credit like that. For that. Yeah. Cause there's probably a lot of guys that run a lot of antibiotics that think they know their bodies really, really well, but until you've put yourself in the type of. Cause here's what I'm thinking. Like I know guys, a lot of guys who take a lot of gear and they'll take a lot of like fat burning type cycles and gear and stuff pre-contest, but then they have to go off to let their body reacclimate. And I guess if you're a natural, you don't have to do that. Well, if you're someone like Aria who has to do all the natural things, there's probably less of a rebound, right? So if you're somebody who's taken Winstraw and, and Clint and you're, you're, you're letting a lot of the drugs to help, help you along the way and you rely on that. And so again, and we talk about this on the show a lot, right? Like, you know, not to take anything away from anyone who runs it. I mean, I ran, I ran Clint for the last two weeks of shows and Testosterone through my shows. So, you know, I'm not knocking anybody at all for that, but when you, if you've relied on that to get you in shape and you've never been in like, you know, super great shape without it, then there tends to be more of a rebound when you come off of it, right? So you come off your testosterone levels are now dropping down, you're weaker. So that's a little depressing. You come off the Clint, which is like making your metabolism and Winstraw through the roof. And I'm also thinking in terms like water retention, you're more likely, you know, to hold water when you're on androgens, maybe the thyroid, if they're doing thyroid, you know, hormones pre-contest. You don't want to necessarily stay on those all the time. Yeah. Well, that's like your clins and stuff, which can affect that. But you're most guys that are doing, that are using drugs or anabolic, letting in the show know what types of testosterone they should be peeling back, getting, because you don't want to be holding a bunch of water when you hit stage. So as you, as you get closer to stage, you're tapering down your, your testosterone already. So you're, you're pulling out synthetics like that or switching them over to like, sippinate and things like that versus longer things like esters. Yeah, it's just interesting to me because it just observes his anecdote, but observationally speaking, I've known a couple of natural competitors who looked phenomenal and they were able to compete frequently. Like it didn't seem to, you know, they didn't have these crazy rebounds. So I'm wondering if it's just knowing your body better and the fact that you're just not having to worry so much about what to manipulate. Well, I think it's a good call. I think it's a good call on that. I think it's both, you know, I think it's, you're required to compete at the level that he's at, right? I mean, he gets on Olympia stage. I mean, just blows me away when we talk about this because I honestly do not, and I know quite a few that claim it, but I don't know anybody else that truly is a hundred percent natural and gets all the way to the Olympia stage for men's physique. It's incredibly impressive. So the level of understanding his body, and you could write, you guys could tell when he pulled up his, you know, I've yet to meet, I had yet to meet somebody who took their tracking to another level than I have. Like his, I mean, he's spreadsheeting and like he's crazy. Yeah, insane amount of detail. I mean, yeah, I tracked the shit out of my, all my stuff, but he was on a, I mean, a whole nother level. So, you know, a guy to do that, he just knows his body so, so well, and he's not really, obviously not relying on drugs to get him there. So, you know, there's probably less of that. Plus what you're saying, there's stuff that's going on chemically, you know, the inside of your body that you're changing and hormonally, which can, you know, have to do with that. But honestly, I think more psychological and really understanding the body for these guys that blow up afterwards, because there's this, you know, and that's part of the, that was part of the reason why I, when we started this, I was, I know we don't talk so much about competing anymore, but I talked a lot about it when we first started because I was just blown away by, you know, how many poor relationships with food and exercise existed within this, you know, the professional level of competing, you know. It's this balls to the wall, take whatever it takes to get there. And then when you accomplish that, it's like fucking, wow, whatever, binge. Oh, the guy, they'll bring like food with them, like boxes of like, you know, Twix and whatever candies that they've been craving, and they'll take it with them to eat right after, literally right after the show's over. You know what I mean? Oh, it's super popular now, like for guys' girls or, you know, depending if you have a girl, like the partner buys them this just huge, you know, grocery list of cookies and brownies and candy and just tons of, yeah, tons and tons of that. And you'll see a lot of them will shoot it in their shoot Instagram stories and show like all the food, the spread that they're about to crush. And most of those dudes, the crazy part is most of them crush that in that night. You know, it's not like, here's all the food I'm gonna be eating for the next month because I missed it. It's like, well, who was it? Well, you're dying. Yeah, let's be honest. Who was it that we were talking about? We were talking to you that said he gained something like 25, 30 pounds within, was it Johnny? I think it was Johnny. I think it was Johnny. One of my shows, and that was a major eye-opener for me. I had a binge after a show and I guess that's the part of me that I get it, you know, I understand like it's really tough to stop. Like when you get so shredded, so lean, you've restricted so hard for so long, it's really easy to justify like I deserve this, you know what I'm saying? Like and I can afford to go crazy and still look awesome, you know? Would you be able to bounce back and then do another show in a couple days or a week? I have. So yeah, I never ran, I didn't run, I've never ran three and 28, but I ran a back-to-back show where there was only a couple weeks in between. There's pros and cons to that. I liked it because I was already in really good shape and then I'd have like a night off or two of eating and just kind of enjoy myself, you know, go hit the sushi and enjoy some desserts and kind of, you know, pile on a few calories and then I get right back into contest prep mode and I'm already in good condition, I'm already in the mental focus so I like that part of it, but it can get wearing and taxing on the body, you know, it just, you're you're living in a caloric deficit for that long all the time, like you're just- And just being super lean. Yeah, I mean, just being super lean all the time. Yeah, so it's to see him do that, do that naturally and three shows back to back. I mean, it's pretty impressive. I know he's incorporating more frequency into his workouts, you know, because of, you know, the influence that maps aesthetic has had on him and he's looking pretty incredible, man. Yeah, no, he's- He carries it, his muscles look very, very full going into his contest, which, you know, especially for a natural athlete, that's tough. In my opinion, when they first created the category, I really believe, this is why I wish that, you know, he would win the shit, win, is I really believe that, and this is where the politics get in, it's really unfortunate, is I believe they intended his look to be what represents the league. Like his, that, I mean, the idea of men's physique was that men's bodybuilding got so out of control with anabolic that the average person looked at that and said like, I don't want to take a bunch of stuff to look like that, you know? And if you do, that's all to each their own, but the majority of people looked at that and said, it's not obtainable to me, I don't want to take a ton of stuff with that, and okay, so in comes men's physique, and men's physique was this, you know, cover of men's health look, like it's supposed to look obtainable for a natural man, like a natural guy should be able to, if he's got good genetics and he trains already diets correctly, could obtain this look. And so I really think he is a great example of what that looks like. You know, somebody who has put the years in and the discipline and discolting and shaping an incredible balance, symmetrical physique that is obtainable naturally. But unfortunately, you know, like anything just like bodybuilding, you know, you see the look just progress and it becomes, you know, the freakier and more impressive you look becomes what wins. There's no sport more evident than that than female bodybuilding, how that went. You know, when female bodybuilding first started, you ever just look at pictures of like the female, like Rachel, I think Rachel McLeish. They look like women's bikini now. What women's bikini looks like. Women's bikini looks more muscular than the way female bodybuilding. That's what I mean, like the old bodybuilder women look. They were just very fit, you know, looking, they were natural. And then it started to progress and then Corey Everson kind of brought it to the next level and then next thing you know, like these chicks are, I mean, they're on some serious gear and they look like, they look crazier than I ever could even dream of looking like with my, you know, male body. It just got insane and it became a very cultish, you know, kind of sport kind of destroyed it. So I think that's what they were afraid of, but they got to be, they got to get better with that kind of stuff. Yeah, you know, and it sucks because the IFBB and MPC are the most well known. And there's natural, there's natural. Yeah, there's not really any exposure there. There isn't any. And sometimes I think like, okay, well maybe if, if, cause the way IFBB and MPC is growing, it's insane. I mean, I was just blown away when we went to Aria show and you know, that was, I mean, it'd be like you guys. It was a packed house. Yeah, every seat. That was prejudging. Yeah, it was, it was Yeah, prejudging. It's crazy. It's crazy to see where it's grown. So I think, okay, well maybe when it grows so out of control and so big, maybe a lot of people that decide we'll sort of bleed over into natural, maybe you'll see this new. And we have buddies like our boy Jason Sinatra who is a stud an all-natural bodybuilder. He got on the all-natural Olympia stage and competed looks badass and a great all-natural dude. But you just don't hear about that league. Like nobody really talks about it. And I know, what is it? Is it PNBA? PNBA and what's another one? There's two. There's two. I have no idea. Yeah, and they're just not, they're just not well known. They're not the, like the guys are all the teams are coming out of, you know, IFBB and so, or WBFF. That's the other one that's really well known but neither one of those are tested so you can do whatever you want. So, it's crazy to see the direction of it. I was very fascinated in the just the business side of it. There's so many businesses that are popping up around it because it's a growing industry. You know, I wonder how big bodybuilding is and if you compare it to like a more recent developed sport like CrossFit, which one is generating more revenue? Oh, for sure. For sure. CrossFit. You think so? Oh, yeah. No, not even close. I mean, once, once CrossFit hit, I mean, once Reebok sign with them, it just took that time. It just goes to show you how cult-ish, you know, bodybuilding is. It's like this cult, you know, it's still that way. Yeah. What's interesting is CrossFit also, I mean, they definitely absorbed like different types of like supplements and, you know, like they're looking for all these extra, like accessories and all these different things to go along with it. And you just see, you see how companies just, boom, they just come in like flies and absorb that cult, like, you know, culture. And yeah, it's interesting. It's very, it's very similar. Well, they're both very similar. Hated or love it, you got to respect what Greg Glassman did. I mean, Of course. I mean, from a marketing perspective, I mean, the guy was fucking brilliant, dude. I'm sorry. I mean, taking. Well, it's fun to watch. That's for sure. It's a spectator friendly, you know, resistance training based sport. I can't think like, well, weightlifting. Yeah. Not nearly as fun to watch. Powerlifting boring as hell. I was going to say, like even, yeah, Olympic lifting, like these kinds of things that are very specialized and specific, you know, you don't get a lot of viewership in the Olympics. No, unless you're a weightlifter, like if I showed weightlifting to my, you know, my aunt, she's going to be like, wrestling dude. Look at what, they took wrestling away from the Olympics. Because it wasn't so exciting enough for people. So, you got to do WWF for that shit. Give them knives or something here. Do you think that it goes? Do you think that it eventually gets into the Olympics? What? Crossfit? Oh no. I believe it does. You think so? I believe it does. I believe it does. No, you would need to have it like more structured because they change it all the time, you know, like you have to be perfect. Why? Well, here's the thing. Why? Why would you not do it exactly the way they give you? No, I think I know what Justin's saying is you need some kind of a standard for Olympics. They require that. If they're going to train at like an Olympic facility, like they train very specialized, you know, every day for like, they know their run inside and out. They know the weather. There has to be a particular, like the altitude. You know what I'm saying? Why do you think that would keep it out of the Olympics? That's the way that they review sports. Yeah. So if I say, here's CrossFit and they look at all these events and they're like, well, they don't, they're all different. Like this one has these three different lifts and this run, this one over here has a kettlebell movement and this and there and that, what they would want is standard. Yeah, because even the comboed ones like, let's be honest, the comboed ones like where you do the, what do you call that skiing, the skiing, four or five different things, but it's standardized. But there's a standard. Yeah, that's all. So this is, this is the debate I had with that is, so, so what? Just because they've done it like that forever, you don't think that they can. Bro, I'm just saying it's going to be an uphill battle for them to change the opinion of the. So here's the thing. The council. Two things. Number one, nobody cares about getting the Olympics anymore. It used to be, you start a sport and that's like the goal. It was like a critical dream was to put bodybuilding in in the Olympics. Today, like CrossFit, subjective, would CrossFit make more money in the Olympics? Well, first of all, to get in the Olympics, they'd have to prove that CrossFit is being competed worldwide, which it's on its way. Then they would have to prove that there's a standard that of competition and they would have to show the standard that have to show a long lineage. Would it even be worth the time in the trouble? I don't know. I don't even think they care. That's just the way it is nowadays. People don't really care anymore about getting certain events. Some events are important to get in the Olympics, like wrestling. Without the Olympics, now, where does wrestling go? Without wrestling, without the Olympics. There's not a professional league or anything. No, there's high school and college in the U.S., which we have a huge pedigree, and then there's world competitions and stuff. Well, then they can convert them into MMA. Yeah. It would be like what they could do. In the Winter Olympics, now you have snowboarding type of events and stuff like that, which they're starting to do, but they're all judged. Yeah. Like you said, if they evaluated it based on, if they had like three different workouts or something, you know what I mean? If they broke it down like you're doing Fran or whatever, test it. Well, I think that's how we think, but that's what makes CrossFit unique and the competitive side of it is that that's just it is part of the mystery of you don't know and if you're going to be the best in the world, you got to be ready for whatever's thrown at you and that's the idea. So I kind of disagree with you guys. I think I get where you're going. But I think you're thinking too much like a businessman consumer, whereas the Olympics, the Olympics don't fucking think like that. They don't think the way you're thinking. They don't think, oh my God, people would love to watch this, the mystery behind it. They are terrible. You don't think the Olympics are a business. I do think they're a business, that comes to evaluating and putting sports up. I think there's a lot more politics and shit involved. I'm not disagreeing with politics, but I think to discount that there's not major thought that goes into the business side of the Olympics is silly. You would have to, you would know, I mean, it's more politics than business. I'll tell you what when, do you know how many countries will host an Olympics? We'll build a stadium for it, we'll spend money on it and then the Olympics is gone and it's like in China there's what they did for the Chinese Olympics. There's these stadiums that they built, they're just there now. Do you make money off the Olympics coming to your country? A lot of countries lose money. The reason why they want it is to display their national, you know, pride and stuff like that. It's a lot different nowadays and it's very difficult. And the big question is would Cross even want to be in the Olympics? I would love to see what the average, you know, city makes from Olympics coming into their city. I think Sal's way off on this one. I think that I think it's actually the reason why they build stadiums and do that is because it brings millions of dollars to the city. I think that it's very much so a business. I think they lose actually. Yeah, yeah, Google it up, let's see. I've read lots of studies on how cities have lost money, but a lot of them don't care. It's like they want that national pride. Like China really to the world that they can organize this incredible event. And they did. Well, you know, you make a lot of money when you host the Super Bowl to an existing stadium you already have, right? Like, oh my God, does that bring a lot of business to your way? You definitely can. Absolutely. Yeah, I know for sure. I'm curious about the Olympics. I think it's different though, like, because you have to build these humongous structures. So that stuff definitely costs. Yeah. And you have to ask yourself, like, would CrossFit even be interested to do it? I don't know. Does that say that it made them $25 billion right there? No. I think it cost them $25 billion. Yeah. It's, you know, I'll tell you what, Brazil, in fact, there were protests in Brazil over the Olympics because people there were saying, why are you spending money on the Olympics when we need- We have those poverty that's right there. Yeah, we need all this shit. So it's like this big debate going on. What does it say there, Doug? Strikingly little evidence that such events increase tourism or draw new investments. Spending lavishly on short-lived event is, economically speaking, a dubious long-term strategy. Yeah. Even- You know what's funny? It's dubious. Even stadiums, even when cities build stadiums, what they'll do is they'll- And this is the debate too with a stadium, right? Let's say you're a city and you want to have- you want to build a stadium so you can have a sports team. Where do they get the money for the stadium? Tax dollars. So they're taxing people to build the stadium that cost X amount of billions of dollars. Then they're going to put a team in there. And then the only people that can really afford to go to games are like wealthy people and it's like this debate, like you're taxing everybody to pay for something that everybody's going to benefit from and businesses aren't necessarily making money. It's actually quite the debate, but with the Olympics, when the Olympics is concerned, it's a lot of politics. Not as much business as you would even think. It's just kind of still, you know, financially or not, I still think it's they're heading in that direction. I think if you were to talk to like Glassman or you might even be able to Google that, like with thoughts on CrossFit moving in that direction to try and get in there. Well, I know bodybuilding is never going to get in the Olympics. Yeah, no, because now that makes sense because there's this, there's no- Well, bodybuilding is actually- CrossFit has some metrics to work with, right? Right. Well, there's a lot of judged events in, I mean, there's, there's a different event. That's a good point. There's a lot, but the bodybuilding is done all over the world. It's on, I mean, it's a worldwide sport. The problem is the drugs. Like when Mr. Olympia won't be able to compete in the Olympics, now what? You know what I'm saying? Because most of the money that goes to bodybuildings comes from the U.S. And none of those athletes would pass any freaking drug test. Oh my God. You know? That's so true. Yeah. Oh, see it says there, sports standardization for CrossFit. Yeah, that would be Wim Hof. Yeah. You never talked about that. Oh, I had a great experience with that. Yeah, that's right. Because we hosted the Wim Hof certification. You didn't even look cold, bro. Dude, you know, I went into that arrogantly. I'm just going to put it out there. Like I, we went through a bunch of like, of the actual breathing techniques and the sequence that, you know, Wim Hof sort of, he has a protocol specifically to how to kind of get to this like ecstasy state, right? To kind of get outside of yourself and to really calm, calm down and tap into that autonomic system. So that was like perfect timing for me. Because like, I had like the most stressful week ever. And it wasn't even like anything insanely chaotic was happening. Like specifically, it was just the accumulation of like many things. And then, you know, before that, I actually like, I had the worst abdominal pain in my life. Went to the hospital and everything to check out and get scanned, make sure nothing was, you know, super wrong with me. Just turned out you needed a good poop. Just turned out, man. You know, had some blood. How much of the actual course were you able to sit in on? Did you sit in on? I did the first day. So I prefaced that because I didn't, I had a lot going on. I didn't get to do the second day, but yeah, I sat in through the whole thing. So yeah, I went through the whole protocol. And so you do like mainly focused on hyper-oxygenating the body. So we don't take really big deep breaths and we don't really understand how to fill up your lungs completely. And so, she talked about why, why that is, why we're all short breath or chest breathers. I think, I think it's your posture and it's just, it's just your body's just kind of acclimating to like, you know, just being in a seated position or just, just like doing daily tasks. Like you're, you're not really like, you have to be really intentional to, to fill your lungs to that capacity. So, you know, they do studies on that and they show that when people are in like moderately stressful situations like we have every day, right? That you breathe more shallow and that when people are placed in really relaxing situations, then they naturally will start to do the full diaphragmatic breathing. And I mean, I think it has to do with the fact that you know, when you're breathing, that's your fight or flight breath. And in the short term, it's better to breathe that way. Like if a lion walks in the room, you're better off breathing shallow so you get the fuck out because that's your quick, you know, your quick reaction. But if you do that all day, it's actually detrimental. Yeah. And what's interesting, like you notice when you do cardio or when you're actually running your heartbeat is really pounding like how it affects because like, I guarantee some of that has to do with like hyper oxygenating the body and getting, you know, more air in. And so anyway, we did these, we did these drills where we're really expanding the rib cage and kind of like stimulating here in the sternum and just, just getting in tune with, you know, how to, how to be more expansive with that breath and also like breathe through the belly and then fill that up and then into the chest. And I mean, really it's boring to talk about, but it was really impactful to go through. So it's, it's one of those things that you just, you just have to go through it and you have to do it and applying it is really difficult because you have to literally just be intentional with it. You do 30 breaths, like you do this full huge breath, like inhale and then you get rid of it. You exhale and quickly and then you go right back into a big deep breath and you do that for 30 and then you hold on the exhale on the last bit which was something that I, I found difficulty in because what you're doing now is you're trying to, you're trying to calm down that panic in your body, right? So when you don't have air and you don't like, your first reaction is to want to, I got to breathe again. I got to fill back up and so just that quieting that noise because you have to realize your, your oxygen at this point. You know, you've been going through all these breaths and getting all this oxygen in, you can hold your breath for a really long time. Once you get past that initial point of panic and so for me that was really what I carried over into then into the ice bath part of it. So you do that three cycles. So the last part I'll just like get this out. So 30, 30 breaths and then you hold and then right away after you have to breathe in again you you you hold you then go for 10 second hold and then you go right back in and you do the cycle again. So you got three times. Oh wow. Yeah. And it works. So how do you, how does it work then when you get in the like, how does it work? In other words, I don't need to know the science, but what I mean is what does it feel like getting into the ice bath after doing that versus not doing it? Well, like this, this reactive part of your of your body where you're like you tense up and you you get into that panic fight flight, you know, mode, whereas if you can suppress that a bit and it and get get outside of yourself a little bit more like you can you can really like ease into your environment and and make it work for you. So me going into the ice like the first time like, I was like, oh yeah, I'll go first, you know, like arrogant asshole. Yeah, no problem. I've been in ice before and no problem. And but I've only been to like maybe my just right up to the chest and so I you go in and then it went all the way up to the neck and so just just having that ice and everything go all the way up and over the chest your body's just like, oh my God, that was the moment where my eyes got really big and and then I just looked up like I I seriously was in panic and I just remembered you know, because you lose it right then because that's the first shock of it. I was like, I lost oh shit and I I opened my mouth real wide. I'm like, you know, trying to get breasts in and I couldn't breathe because it's restrictive. So it's like a panic. It's a panic. And then and then boom and then that sort of kicked in that breathing pattern and zone and and you have to keep your hands on top of your legs. So like the the closer your limbs are, you know, the less surface you know, area you have to get exposed to the cold. So so anyway, I basically went through that whole process and then it's really interesting because what what you're seeking is how quickly you can get into that state. So it's a lot like moving yourself into flow state. Oh, wow. Yeah. And it happened really fast because it was so shocking and and in gnarly that once it was probably like a couple seconds. Maybe it was like 15 seconds but you're in there for like two minutes and so like the initial shock the first time I was like, Oh God, I'm gonna die. And then I finally calmed down and then oh, this isn't bad. And then it was totally chill. Do you know when you read Superman, they talk about this is really like the process that you're going through is really similar to getting into the flow state. Right. That's exactly what happens and that's also why you know, extreme sports have so much success because it's this life or death. You feel like you're flipping upside down. Oh my God, I gotta die. Like that's your like the average person just if you were to try to do a double backflip off a fucking huge ramp. Yeah. We all would go, Oh, this is a lot safer way to do that. Yeah, right. So I, so then after that, you you get out and it's great because you get into this kind of horse stance. So you it's kind of like a power stance. So you sit into it a bit so you engage your muscles in your legs and then what you do is you you basically punch across and you're doing like a core rotation and you're really you're inhaling as you as you go one way and then you're exhaling the other Tai Chi. It's like Tai Chi but it felt a little bit more like, you know, those Fijian warrior guys that are just like and you do all that stuff and they're playing cool music with Wim Hof. Actually, he he writes his own music. He plays guitar and he like he does this like cool tribal kind of singing. And so there's a track like that going on. It was really cool, dude. It was like for me, I'm not I'm not into the whole like, you know, I hate to say this but the more like woo like, like Yogi kind of turns you off. You know, let's all get in. Like I'm like, okay, why the boys and this talking about flow. Okay. So there's a reason why that is it was like warrior. You require right now. Okay. So this is like levels of getting better at getting into the flow state like your macro and micro levels. And so when you do something so extreme that you're a physical person. Right. So putting you in a situation that felt life or death helps force you in. Thank you for bringing it up. Yeah. Because for me, my initial reaction is the tense. And so what I do to overcome stress is to over tense. So like for me, like lifting weights, for example, like I want to squeeze as hard as I can to get through it. And my go to operating system is is full throttle. You know, and for me to to just barrel my way through. This is the opposite. And I could not do that deal with this at all. It really fucked me up. And you notice that when you watch some of the other guys that were a little more like had meditative practices, you can tell who who actually has meditative practices in their program. Because when they got in, you just watch and their demeanor changed and then they got into that state really quickly. And they were able to just chill in there. And I was like, oh my God, dude, I was like, it kind of makes you realize like how much of the difficulties we have in everyday life really have to do with just us. Yeah, in our mind, dude. Like literally your body is telling you to panic. But you're not in any dangers, sitting in ice water for two minutes. If you're a healthy individual, it's not dangerous. You're fine. You're not going to die. But your body makes you feel like you are. At least your mind is. And we forget that we are the drivers of that. Yeah. So did you get a chance? I love numbers and stats. Did you get a chance to hear her talk about as humans, how much it's been recorded that we can actually control our internal temperature? No. They didn't address that? I would be interested to see what some of the... As far as... Yeah. I know I've heard numbers. Yeah. Like you could... Like some months... It might be in their notes. Yeah. To be able to lower a razor temperature by like 20 degrees or something crazy. Like that's crazy when you think about it. 20? Well, there's a vice document in the way. I'm off. So I'm going to have to go back and kind of go through that. Yeah. We need to look that up because 20 would be like that. I'm throwing some arbitrary number out there. I don't know if it's... Because even if you could raise it and lower by four degrees, that's like incredible. 20. My God. I don't think your heart would... I know. So that whole process right after that. So that was all to start like raising your core temperature again. And so like, you know, pulling all that. By intensifying your core and then your major muscle groups. And so, yeah. So it was interesting and it's interesting to see where you have poor circulation too with like your your hands, your fingers, your feet. And for me, the second time through, I really noticed my feet, you know, not having as good enough of circulation. And so that's something that I would apply. You could even use like, just put your feet in an ice bath or like your hands specifically to work on improving that. Interesting. Yeah. See what, you know, it's interesting because we get in our own way a lot by saying things like, I'm not into the, you know, that woo-woo stuff. I'm not into that. And we've all said it and it's like, we get in our own way. You know what I mean? Because it prevents us from trying things that very well may have some incredible application. Like you said so yourself, like you could tell the guys and girls who meditated because they get in there in that ice bath and they were able to chill or, you know, no pun intended. A little faster. Yeah. I think, exactly. And I think that's an ego thing. You know, for me, it's just this, it's all in how it's presented. Right. So if, if it's about improvement and performance, like this was more about human performance and controlling. Yeah. Controlling your... If it was about balancing your pink chakra, then you'd be like, I'm like, I'll sit this one out. I mean, I'm not going to wear those pants and shit. I'm not doing it. Damn. And this is why, exactly. I said why there's a lot of success and why we've seen this rapid growth in extreme sports is you don't have a choice. Yeah. Like you get, you get dropped into an ice bath and it's like, you start fucking panting like crazy and you're going to be fucked, right? Exactly. It kind of forces you to fit where Oh, so good for me that, you know, I needed that. Right. So, because sit you in a, sit you in a dark room, close your, like all I'm doing right now is thinking about everything else, right? Step right up, all you bearded men and all you bearded ladies. This quasi is brought to you by Big Top Beer Company, whose all natural beard oil products not only make your beard smell amazing, but feel amazing too. They're organic, essential oil blends transport you to manly places like the mountains, the desert, the sea, and beyond. Oh, I'm encouraging a lot of beard nuzzling the boom. Buy it for yourself or as a gift show bearded someone at BigTopBeardCompany.com. Enter the discount code MIMEPOM for a 33% off at checkout. Speaking of this weekend too, we had Brink in here. He sent over an email over to us. It had some, I know a lot of his clients listen to the show. What's up with the email? Yeah, he had some clients between ages 45 and 60. They're in good shape. However, they become obsessed with their own mobility. And so that's where their focus is gone. And now they feel like they're having a hard time staying in the game as far as the workouts are concerned. And they're concerned that they're losing their aesthetics and strength. There's some questions here. One from a 56-year-old female. She's been in treatment with him for one and a half months. And this is what she says, after a month of doing the mobility movements and not lifting, I'm starting to freak out a bit because I may be losing my muscularity. It's been an identity for me for a long time. And while the mobility is really satisfying way more than lifting for sure, it's going to take me a while to build enough mobility and a strong enough cord to build muscle with it. Any guidance about how to manage this identity change? I'm softening up and I don't like it. This is close to home for me. This is what I'm going through right now. So I can totally relate to this. Being a guy who if you've listened to this podcast since the beginning I've been, I used to say I'm all show, no go. All I care about is I want to look good. And of course I was in men's physique so that was my main focus. And now I've made this transition into mobility and I've dove head first, full on into it, completely embraced it, challenged myself to not care about it. I'm not taking any other selfies. I'm not weighing myself. I'm not checking my body fat percentage. I've completely embraced the concept that I'm going to work from the inside out and work on all my imbalances and my neurological connections and poor patternering and get this, get my body working optimally. And, you know, I would be lying to say that that isn't a mental challenge for me. It's fucking hard, man. It's really hard, especially when you talk about a guy like me who had deep rooted insecurities with being smaller and, you know, got it. I was literally in the suite at this concert the weekend, last weekend and rented a Navarro Bowman and I hadn't seen him since last year and I was competing the last time I'd seen him and the very first time I'd met him I met him and he was with a couple other Niners and walked up and he was like, damn, dude, he walked over and he grabbed my shoulders, my arm was in power and as known as someone like Navarro Bowman like looking at me and touching my muscles and being all in awe and stuff like that. Fucking ego just went felt amazing, right? I had the Navarro Bowman to touch me. So I ran into him. I ran into him on the weekend and said what's up and he comes walking up to me and he grabs me on my arms and he goes, what happened, bro? I thought, oh, dude, just a fucking knife right into the ego. And I just kind of chuckled and kind of shared a little bit of my journey what's been going on that we got caught up and stuff but point being that that's something that I have to work on all the time and those feelings are those uncomfortable feelings that I have I just have to remind myself that on the other side of that is growth. So instead of like being frustrated with it I go like, you know what? I'm so much better today about that and dealing with that than I was just two, three years ago and definitely five years before that and most certainly 10 years before that. So if I'm still feeling this way to me it's like, oh, I still have room for growth here. So instead of looking at it like, oh my God, it's like the thing with building muscle I easily I know that I can focus on building muscle like, especially the muscle that you've already put on your body already that shit will come back so fast if that's something I want but what I'm doing from my body as far as mobility it's going to carry on for so much longer and is so much more beneficial and so, you know if you feel like you know this is something that you have and then 100% I know in the rest of the question she even like I think she even calls herself out right and says that she knows that it's you know self esteem and self image and self confidence you know I think the best thing the best advice I can seeing that saying that I'm going through it with you is that you know look at that like if it if it bothers you if it's a challenge that means there's opportunity for growth in that area and instead of turning back or getting frustrated embrace it more and go forward because I think the further you go with that the more comfortable you'll become and so for me like part of that too is like wearing clothes that I would like disguise myself so I don't look skinny or small or doing those things and instead of that I'm embracing that and being comfortable with who I am and I know that sounds weird as a man who's been in men's physique to talk like this that's fucking real you know and I think that a lot of people don't share that and don't say that and I'll tell you right now 90% of those men and women that get on stage that most people idolize and look at their physiques most of them have the biggest insecurities out of the average person so to say that they don't they're full of shit you know like that's what normally drove those people to be so neurotic about getting in shape so for me you know if I feel like I'm struggling with that then that's a reflection for myself that there's a lot of people there so so I think when we look at this some okay so a couple of things with her she's been doing this for one month okay and she's a 58 year old female now 56 56 your situation is more extreme there's a couple of questions I'd want to ask you because there is a dramatic difference right and the way you look from when you compete it to now but are all things equal is your nutrition as meticulous and protein are you on the same level of androgens are you as consistent with your workouts because I would argue and I'll argue this all day long that if you take most people who are natural who work out consistently to build muscle and if they make a if they make a targeted effort for mobility training that they're not going to see a huge decrease in muscle just not yes and no this is where I'm going to defend her on this is it's it's hard to live in both worlds and you tend to and you're right on everything you said about me so 100% I mean my testosterone level is probably 50% less than what it was when I was competing I'm not I'm not counting calories I'm for sure under consuming protein intake on quite a few days you know in the month my my training routine is way more inconsistent so I definitely would have a a closer to aesthetic physique had I kept all those things up but part of me really embracing it actually was to let go of that stuff so and maybe that's part of where she's going to that too and I so I looked at it like you went all in with it instead of trying to hybridize fuck yeah both fuck yeah because then I feel like I would be I would be you know flirting with one and not really fully committing like I'm there's a reason why committed is tattooed on my forearm like if I say I'm going to do I'm going to go all in and if I'm going to truly say I'm going to do somewhat polar energy forces they are and that's and that's my point is that yours is pretty extreme in the sense that you are competitive physique competitor she's this is one month in and she's talking about how she's afraid of losing muscularity I don't I bet you if we saw her picture from the beginning to the end of 30 days we wouldn't notice that big of a difference I think more of this is in her I think much much more all of it all of it all of it's in the head that's what I'm trying to get at all of it's in the head but it's okay it's okay that she feels this way and I can identify with you know making a shift from being someone that was so heavily focused on building a muscular physique and the way the reason why I can identify so much is because I guarantee I'm even more extreme but that's that's what I meant by you know go deeper you know I'm saying let it go I'll tell you right now you could as hard as you've worked I've worked for 15 plus years on building this muscular physique and I completely have let that side go to completely focus on mobility and you're right Sal's right I could be having more of a balance I could be focusing I could keep more of an aesthetic look while I'm doing this but that's just it part of this process for me is letting that go and not caring about it and being okay with that so I'm by me kind of letting go of all that is also me kind of challenging me mentally that I can be okay with it now what you're going to see with me real soon here so ironically that we're talking about this is I'm about to shift gears again and really dial in all my training my diet tracking my steps again and I'm going to start to build on this really mobile physique that I've been working on for the last year so you're going to get to see but part of me really embracing this mobility side too was knowing that it was what I needed not only physically but also mentally and part of that had to do with I wanted to let go of that and I am intentionally not caring about muscularity I get that but I'm wondering how much if you took the typical you know gym rat someone who's consistent with the workouts if you took them and changed their workout from focusing constantly on building mass and changed it to more mobility full range of motion type movements and their diet doesn't have to change if they're eating healthy before they could eat the same after it's just a workout that changes I don't think you're going to see people except for those that are on the extreme levels I don't think you're going to see people go from this dramatic change in how they look I've done it many times my body weight changes a few pounds which is nothing if I go strict you know conditioning mobility type stuff versus we've had people do maps performance who've come out surprised that I built more muscle it's surprising I think most of this is is like misconstrued like oh shit if I stop training like a bodybuilder I'm going to lose all this muscle well I knew too that if I was going to really embrace the mobility side that I I couldn't I felt it like I would start training and I would get that itch that drive for the the bodybuilder who provided me to build muscle when I knew damn well that I need to be putting more work into my mobility and I you know when you're training and you're lifting heavy and you're trying I mean we created programs to live in both worlds so let's be honest it's possible it's integrative yes it's integrative it's possible you can do it but where I'm going with this and where I can just totally relate with how she feels right now and if you want to break the psychological part then try the answer isn't find a way to do it to make sure you keep as much muscle and find mobility it's embracing it I'm not saying to find a way I'm saying for most people if you you know you're not cutting your testosterone in half you're not going from eating 3,500 calories a day to eating 2,000 calories you're not doing all these other crazy drastic changes which by the way had you done those changes and kept your routine complete bodybuilding you would have seen a dramatic change in your body well I can speak to from strength element of it right you know just living in the mobility side for quite some time like a lot like Adam is talking about like there's a period where you really start to kind of get into that that phase where like this is benefitting my body I'm doing all this from my joints and I'm trying to work on range of motion and I feel really good and charged and all this now I have to kind of if I've been focusing on that for a long enough period of time there's a lot of like friction there for me to now ramp back up and start working on my strength gain and start dead lifting really heavy again and you know squatting heavy and so it's I mean it's a challenge let's be honest like so it either way like you know it's benefitting you but the same time like you you already start you need to start thinking ahead you need to start adding and implementing these things so now we can kind of bridge our way back to that integrative approach where it's all included and remember and keep this in mind like if you start making yeah it can take some time like I took my belt off and changed my grip on deadlifts for like eight months I didn't deadlift over 450 pounds for eight months I was a regular 500 plus pound puller all the time and I had to drop the weight go double overhand grip take my belt off I didn't lose any muscle or if I did it was a little bit it wasn't much it wasn't totally noticeable I just went back to using my belt again and I'm I can already see I'm getting close to where I was lifting before but now I feel more connected to the weight and I feel different I think for most people you focus on mobility if you lose aesthetics it's going to be small when you go back to training for aesthetics after having fixed a lot of your mobility issues you'll probably achieve better aesthetics better balance better movement because your range of motion and controlling will be much better in the long run your aesthetics will benefit now I'm not talking to the to the super small minority of people who go on a stage and compete because that is such an extreme expression of aesthetics that in order to look like that you have to be that extreme you know what I'm saying you have to do all the stuff that's extreme to do that but most people like this 56 year old woman you know if she fixes her mobility issues connection issues and then over time let's say over the course of six months or however long it takes it can take a while it can take as long as a year right she goes back to some of her older exercises and focuses on building muscle I bet you she's going to come out of it looking better with less effort than she did before oh no absolutely I think that's the fear she's generating that momentum that's it the fear we have right is and I think why I'm a great example is because I am so extreme that I mean if I were to go take my body fat test right now okay I'm pretty good at this because I've done this so many times I'm probably sitting at about a hundred and 80 80 something pounds of actually lean body mass and when I was at the peak of my competing I was up to about 208 so that's a fucking lot of muscle that's a lot of 20 pounds but I will tell you something right now you'd be surprised how fast I'll get that back it's not as once you've been there of course it's really actually easy it's a lot of work to get one more pound of muscle one more pound of muscle but it's amazing how I've been I'm blown away by it every time I do this do you adjust testosterone levels with that along with that like hey I'm going to build muscle now I'm going to take more oh if I was competing I would this time I won't so this time keep it the same yeah yeah I mean keep it out I'm not going to try and get to my competitive I'm not because it'd be interesting to see how much because there's zero science around this like studies at least but anecdotally we see it right it'd be interesting to see how much that makes a difference you know what I mean versus okay here's the androgen levels I was at before and body mass and now how much oh yeah I mean I usually see if you could match it yeah I think if I better training I think if I was you know lifting as here's why I here's the thing like there's times like now where I know I need to lift for muscle reason like to build like I need it if I want to keep building size or maintain size I go I go into today's workout but then in my head goes what I really could use is like an hour of just movement in Indian clubs doing some of our maps anywhere and priming fortification sessions and I could spend a whole hour plus just doing that and you guys don't see a lot of work that I do at home and outside of here like to get where I'm at like where my mobility is now that has been a lot of dedication purely to that and it's been like two years and I'm not that long but it's been it's been a solid year of maybe more really really addressing it to where and it's been a process the beginning was I was a little resistant the beginning and to be honest when I watch you work on your mobility right now it reminds me of where I was at when I first started really trying then I got to a point where like dude I want to be able to I want to be able to sit and ask to grasp bro with 300 pounds in my back and feel comfortable I want to be able to do a pistol squat I want to be able to take myself with an overhead you know barbell overhead press and not feel like a forward head I can't even put my back flat against a wall with a wall press all these things that I've been like measuring and going after and that has become so I've been so focused on that that all the other shit is not a priority and you know someone who's 56 may have as many imbalances I do and that could require a lot of that work and you can I mean it's your body that's the beautiful thing like if you feel that you need to go the other direction that's fine but what I will tell you is even let's pretend I was just say fuck it I'm not going to worry about the muscle thing it's actually really easy to get it back it is not what it is a lot of work and a lot of dedication is to put the time and effort you need to put in to repattern bad patterns that you've created for 40 50 years and that may require her to let go of the weight training so much and become heavily focused just on the movement and the patterning then when you get good at that don't be afraid don't be afraid that you're going to lose a ton of muscle I promise you that you'd be so blown away by how much you'll get that back quick interruption by our sponsors you guys lots of people been asking us how they can support the Mind Pump Mafia family our first one is our Chimera coffee that we love you guys go to ChimeraCoffee.com that's Chimera with a K for 10% off don't forget Mind Pump at the checkout we also have our big top beard company.com for 33% off we talk so much about this for sleep and meditation it's brain.fm for 20% off also Mind Pump at the checkout you guys we also talk a lot about books on here all the time we're using that Audible you guys can get a free trial 30 day trial plus one free audio book if you go to AudibleTrial.com forward slash Mind Pump and then last we get lots of people asking about Ben Greenfield CBD supplement so we hit him up to hook you guys up you go to getnaturedblend.com forward slash Mind Pump for that discount next question is from Dr. Koove what is your most recent nightmare? what do you fear as an adult? so we're talking about literal nightmare like I went to sleep and had a bad dream I think that's what they had to sure well I don't think you have to say it literally what stresses you out I mean as an adult I don't even have nightmares anymore if I have a nightmare I can control it I'll start because I know Sal's going to say something about kids because I'm going to say dude after a couple of scares and going to the ER you've had a couple recent ones yeah that's what keeps me up at night sometimes sometimes just like you just hear noises or whatever and then like this instant panic and then I just jump out of bed and then run out and I just make sure like that noise wasn't coming from downstairs my boys are downstairs so yeah but like that's that's the thing now because of those two two things it's like this crazy insane just panic and you know like fear and it's real dude have you ever had that before have you ever lost your kids for like a second oh awesome like yeah fucking worst feeling yeah once fuck it I remember when my son god he must have been let's see five I mean he was real young and we had just bought a house and we were remodeling it so we were living with my in-laws for a month while remodeling the other house and we put my son to bed and he we were all sharing a room upstairs in my in-laws house and so he was in sleep and he was young again I think it was five and it was hot summertime so we had the window open and we go downstairs and we're all watching a movie or whatever and at the time my wife goes upstairs like to like she's going to go to bed and all of a sudden she goes she comes down the stairs she goes where you know where's the medical and we're like and I knew the window was open to the bedroom and this fucking panic came over me like I've never experienced my entire life because he's in the house the window's open he's a small child where would he be right? yeah I like I could not I flew up the stairs I think I took two steps and cleared the entire and would it have superhuman like reactions yeah like crazy and what had happened was is he had he had walked into the closet and fallen asleep and we couldn't find him for a grand total of one minute oh no it was literally 60 seconds but it was the most felt like a lifetime just terror the most terrifying 60 seconds of my life and you know what's funny I don't know Justin if you go if you kind of realize this yourself but I realized after having kids like I wasn't there was nothing to be scared of before I had kids like I look back I'm like what the fuck was I worried about yeah well it's trivial you know like that's how I feel about it now but like you know it was real then yeah my son was choking and he had swallowed a marble and it was like a big marble and it was lodged and so like you know my wife was the first to find him and then brought him upstairs and I was like you know dead asleep and then she's like and then I was like and then she's the nurse and so she's calling and I figure like hey you know like like she was like losing it and I was like trying okay I have to be the one to like keep everybody together here and so like there's what we're gonna do you know and meanwhile like my son's turn white you know and like and so we we put him we opened up the the freezer door and we have him in there just to to calm his his throat so he could breathe in cold air and then that was able to loosen up a bit and it was able to kind of pass but and then the the ambulance came and everything and then he finally just went all the way and so we were good I don't think you can do any of that it wasn't in his windpipe though no okay so yeah we just we dodged a bullet with that and then he just passed it out you know scary yeah I mean for that's the scariest things that ever happened to me gives me anxiety it does dude besides kids because that's an obvious one you know what would be one of my biggest nightmares would be to be in a situation where you feel like for me at least where I'm worthless I want to start a business or I want to go become employed or do something like that and I don't have anything to offer anybody and I feel like I don't have any value I think that would be that that was a nightmare for me for a little while and it was mainly because I did not go the formal education route I went you know I worked for a large company I managed gyms and I owned my own business and you know there was a little bit of that insecurity of not having a degree not having you know that to the fear like whoa you know like am I going to have value if I need to go work for someone or if I got to start something else and I think that was more based on I guess an insecurity at the time but you know now as an adult besides that I don't know if I can think of too much else I guess it's all revolved around my kids like if I think of anything that really scares me like natural disaster it's around like oh my god what's going to happen to my kids or fighters I guess that would be yeah I don't know if I I definitely don't have a recent nightmare I can't even tell you the last time I even had a nightmare and a fear as an adult fuck me dude I don't and I think this is where I'm like Sal maybe like if there is the only thing I could relate to this is if what stresses me out or what could like cause like a major state change super irritable or I flash on somebody or I'm just out of character to where it's just keeping me up at night I can't sleep I'm really good though now I think of being aware of when I feel that coming on or if I get like that and putting into practice some of the things that I do to bring that down and to relax and for me it's kind of similar to what Sal said like mine is getting stuck in this like in this place like where where I don't have growth where I'm not where the business isn't growing where I'm not growing where I'm just kind of like that clock puncher like even though I'm the furthest thing from that but that's part of what makes me not that guy is that's a big fear of mine like and I know in the back of my head I've always like when I dive into something and we're going to build a new business or do something I go like well I always know that if shit doesn't work out I could always go this from nine to five I could make you know six figure income and I could live and I could be fine but that's my greatest fear like that's not what I ever want to do and I think that's what motivates me and there's this you know fear inside that that could happen and so that's a lot of what drives me now when I realize that it's bleeding into my relationships with others is when I address it right so you know really easily like in this current that we're in right now we go we've and I've already experienced this multiple times where we go through these growth spurts or where we get to hit these lulls and the the business seems stagnant and in business you're either growing or dying it's not anyone ever says that it's stagnant or staying the same as full of shit so you know the moment that it's stagnant that's the moment it's dying to me so when I when we go it'll keep me up at night and you know that will drive me crazy like I don't have nightmares I don't do that if I had a nightmare I've at one point in my life I've figured out how to control them so I normally end up stabbing the guy and killing him and come out to be like the superhero right or bring the chick home like you know so nightmares actually go my way so whenever they start off bad they end up really heroic so you do you do lucid dreaming yeah I don't know what you call it lucid is when you know you're dreaming so you could start to say that it only seems lucid though if it becomes a nightmare if it becomes a nightmare like I have this ability to go oh then you control it yeah so if it's not a nightmare you're not aware yeah if it's not a nightmare I'm normally deep asleep but if it's scary or you know something that's almost chasing me or you get some of that like right away I'm like this ain't real dude I used to get those dreams like when I was a kid and then later when you know when you wake up or you think you're awake but you're not awake yet and it feels like somebody's like sitting or like stepping on your chest it was totally Satan bro yeah it's a devil it's a demon I know it's a demon it's a demon I was like big on demon and then I was fine because I have Jesus you know they say dreaming dreams are fucking strange it's such a mystery like there's so many different theories the one that I that I tend to believe in or at least the one that resonates most with me is that you have particular feelings and emotions and you go to sleep with these emotions and your brain tries to make sense of the emotions by creating you know creating a consciousness around it and since you're not awake it invents it so if you're you know if you've got all these problems that are mounting and you're stressed out about it and then you go to sleep it could maybe be like this big monster that you can't get away from and that's chasing you or maybe you're super insecure about your appearance and so then you have a dream that your teeth are falling out or you're really afraid of doing a presentation or making it or that you forgot to study for a test you know like it's like your feelings getting manifested on we have it oh you do interpreting your dreams it's pretty interesting I mean I definitely think that's to me that's it sounds common sense yeah that's how I feel it sounds like it it's on your mind your brain trying to put something together it was the last movie you watched a couple days ago cause that's in your mind that's the last thing you just consumed or whatever I guess you know one direction that kind of makes me want to ask you guys is you know we have fears right as an adult is it I guess there's got to be a balance between letting a fear drive you and letting it be the only thing that drives you right cause being fear driven tends to make us behave in ways you could use fear you know or to kind of like you know propel you forward they say on the other side of fear is success so I think there's nothing wrong with being afraid and having that like that's kind of like just got to recognize this goes back to the question that we were just talking about like so a fear of mine okay is to be skinny like I was in high school again and lose all my muscle and like you know feel inadequate or would not feel buff and muscular but that's part of like what I meant by I'm full all the way and like no way like I feel like I would be like putting my foot in just a little bit if I was really still kind of focused on making sure I keep as much muscles I want to like tip to I'm going to embrace this hippie look dude I'm going to go all in I'm going to become mobile I'm going to fix all these issues I'm not going to be insecure about this stuff I'm going to fully commit that way I'm going to face that fear all the way so to me that's kind of so it's not driving you though at that point your fear is because when your fear was driving you it would drive you to not not go into mobility not go into that stuff so I think the important thing is to say identifying the fear but not be driven by in the sense that it you controlling it versus it controlling you yeah absolutely yeah I've always had a fear of like saying the wrong thing and so now I just always say the wrong thing just to get out there first you know like oh fuck shit you know hey guys yeah well that's I mean you you expressed that when we first started that there was you know fear for you getting on the mic it's not something you want to do you face that absolutely I would be flying the wall sometimes and you know even in conversation with close friends like oh we'll get into it if it's a topic and but I don't feel the need to be heard as much like I don't feel like I need that I don't need feedback from people to tell me what I am or what I'm not doing I don't need that I could do things myself very well and I can assess myself and what I'm capable of and that's my ideas better and you know so I built a nice comfort system I feel like a lot of I think definitely most of us in this room I for sure speaking for myself can say that I'm a fear seeker like I look for it like if something rattles me or something I don't want to do it like instantly I want a headbutt instantly and I said this on a previous podcast that's a state change right all of a sudden either fear or doubt or insecurity comes in my mind and like I go whoa whoa where did that come from like looks like I have something to address like because on the other side of that is success and is growth so when you when you shift your mentality to instead of trying to avoid fear and stay away from it is looking for it in your life and conquering it I mean it's just growth growth I don't know it's tough for me to find it and I tell you what like I'll let you know when I come across another thing that's that and I'll address it probably the closest thing to that now is the you know losing of all my muscle which I'm no longer afraid of next question is from Mr. Ball Challenge what kind of ball challenge are we talking about here well he's currently training to be a spin instructor he's two weeks in his knees are hurting and he's told that he rides well so you think it's going to continue and he also wants your opinion on the pros and cons of spinning so if you're doing if you're doing something so first off spinning is obviously for those who don't know it's like you're riding a stationary bike in a class it's very intense spinning a circle and you're just yeah tread lightly here yeah it could be one of those tread lightly when we talk about spinning yoga or runners oh my god that's really religion well so here's the thing so spin typically very intense classes they're you know cycle based because you're on a bike and you're following an instructor who's telling you to go more intense less intense simulate riding hills and you know sitting on your seat and stuff like that it's like any form of repetitive motion it can it will if it's all you do it will create imbalances muscles to be stronger and some muscles to be tighter I'm going to lengthen some muscles and strengthen others in positions that are good for cycling which means I may create imbalances for walking for lifting things up for other types of activity so that's that's the problem with spinning the problem with spinning is the same problem that we have with any repetitive motion is if that's all you do it will eventually cause you problems now in this particular case if he's and he's already fit I think I know who this person is and his knees are bothering him it may be due to an imbalance but it also may be due to just overuse cause at the end of the you can you can hurt because you overuse something cause your body's not used to it like if you've never spin this much in your life and all of a sudden you're spinning like crazy even with good form and stuff you can still get inflammatory issues in the joints that are used the most and in this case it may be a case of you might need to spin less you may need to focus a little bit more time on rest and recovery and maybe some you know foam rolling and stretching and mobility work because if you push past this point may not be a good thing you may cause yourself some issues in your knees and it depends on where your knees hurt but I you know I've known people to get things like conger Malaysia which is you know inflammation and you know Patella which once you get to that point it kind of sucks it's hard to to come out of it if you can come out of it so I think for sure address the or look into the YouTube series that I just did with Dr. Jordan Shallow we did a whole series on hip health and in my experience especially with somebody who was a good a good physique like I know he I know he's in good shape aesthetically right someone so he's lifting weights he's training when I have somebody who their knees are bothering them from doing something like all of a sudden cycling a lot of the times it could be related to hips hip health and it could be overactive muscles and underactive muscles that are going on a lot of times related to the IT and TFL and your IT runs all the way down and inserts in the front of the Patella and if that's super super tight that can cause stress on there and then all you're doing is and then when you're pedaling that's all you know quad hip flexor dominant to do that so a lot of anterior muscles that are going on there so you could be super overactive and tight so opening up the hips and making sure you have good mobility before you get in so priming your body before you get into your cycling class I would look into that pros and cons I mean right with Sal the pros of it and great cardio you get to do like hills and you can do sprints and you get some of your hip type of cardio in there so great for burning fat great for burning calories and could be interactive and fun because you have friends and a lot of hot girls take spin classes so that's also a pro cons I think the biggest con I'd say is a lot of people get really addicted to this they get addicted to how fun it is the hot girls in class and all the calories they burn and then it becomes something that they do three, four, five times a week and there's not enough of the other stuff to keep them very balanced and it's and or it becomes something that is the only way that they can get in shape is when I take when I take spin I'm in the best shape of my life you know and well to go along those you know along that pathway I could relate on the sense that like I went through a period of just playing basketball as my getting shape and that was my work out you know and just just stepping outside the gym and getting really into the conditioning element of basketball and just the explosive movement and I mean there's a lot going on but at the same time like it was it was wear and tear on my joints it was wear and tear on my ankles my knees like my lower back and you know as fun as it was I had to understand that like I need to build my body up I need to build up the strength and support my joints and I need to I need to work back in the gym and but it's still fun you know it's a great experience it's something that's like if that if spin provides that for you and it's an activity for you keep it in your life you know like that's the thing like we don't have to all like the same shit but at the same time like you got to benefit your body for the long haul and your joints and think about if your posture is starting to decline if you have an aches and pains constantly you really got to be reflective on that and figure out like what what that's really doing for you yeah and don't forget the spin is not what's hurting your knees okay so it's not the spin class especially if someone's telling you you have great form something that's just your body you know that there's something wrong right so that's where you go back and you start looking in to you know the hips and typically it's you know and especially if it's it's going from a spin and you're in that seated position my guess would be hips you know you're going to go you're going to go either hips or the ankle is more than likely causing issues with the knee in a spin I would think it's less likely the ankles and more likely related to the hips so I would go in that area so the when people are riding spin bikes or bikes in general I used to train a high level cyclist he actually competed and he would tell me how important the kick like the pullback is in cycling so it's not just the pushing down of the pedal which is all a lot of anterior a lot of quad it's also the pullback and then the extension with the ankle and it doesn't contribute the majority of the power in cycling but it does enough to where it'll make a substantial difference it definitely could be ankle I mean I would go there too although it's less likely for spinning it's less likely it's more likely hips so I would look into that direction if that's what's going on now my experience with cyclist is the knee pain and again it depends where the knee hurts but my experience training cyclist a lot of the knee pain that people will complain about is where the patella tendon meets the tibia so right at the tibial what is that tuberosity and people will feel it like right down here well they'll get sore in their knees and one thing that may help and this is not a cure it's just we'll alleviate some of your symptoms is after you're done with your spin class is to sit in a deep quad static stretch which should take some pressure off that patella tendon because it'll loosen up the quads your quads are already super warm and pumped from your spin class so you just get into a deep quad stretch and really hold them for a while and then come out and see if that helps I've had some success with some of my cyclist clients with doing that and where it was hard for them to change anything because they were in the middle of training for an event our best 99 are the maps programs applicable for someone who is morbidly obese or in very poor shape so I think we should first define what morbidly obese means because that's another level of the community that's another level right obese there's obese and there's morbidly obese and it's defined in medical terms as someone who is between 40 to over 50 in terms of the BMI so it's a pretty heavy which we're talking about mostly like 3, 4, 500 pound people it depends on your height right of course but I mean which doesn't sound huge that's really high though if you think about it it's 15 million Americans man it's 15 million Americans and that the number a lot of rascal scooters the number of morbidly obese Americans over the last 10 years has jumped you mean those are motored ones or the lark I get around that number has gone up something like 50 or 70% like the percentage of morbidly obese has grown tremendously over the last 10 years which is really crazy more information more knowledge more tools and yet we're still going that direction we're losing the fight boys it's pretty scary and you know here's the thing when you're talking about morbidly obese or very very poor shape you're talking about very deconditioned individual somebody who if I've had clients like this right they've come and see me and their workout consists of oh my god Doug thanks Doug for that picture I appreciate that holy hottie for that those individuals will come in and their training will consist of standing up off the bench sitting down on the bench oh my god what is that it'll consist of lifting their arm above their head trying to get good posture it'll consist of very basic movements what word did you just google Doug I want people to be able to see this morbidly obese okay just let's go images but you know what let's be honest oh wow there's even where all the worst places are in America oh the south the south winds Texas is that high wow I think Mississippi was the fattest state there's a percentage thing next to it so let's address we can all agree like if someone is morbidly obese like maps is not the program for them walking moving like actually just moving the body is the program for them yeah somebody who's in poor shape though who's on their way maybe to become morbidly obese and actually can they don't have to ride in a scooter to get somewhere they actually can because most people that are morbidly obese aren't even leaving their house right they can better get out of their chair getting up and down from a seated position is very very difficult yeah somebody who's morbidly obese is actually looking to do things like you know gastric bypass just so they could live and survive and knock off 100, 200 pounds just so they could eventually get up and move so we'll address poor condition and yeah absolutely maps is but we would regress that like so I mean and maps anywhere was when we first were creating I remember we were talking about this like you know hey we're going to create this at home program so let's create something that you know people will be able to do this one they could do like the Shaun T fucking super intense and then they can also be for somebody so that was why we kind of flip that program on its head and it's designed that it's only two days of body weight movements and then the other three days are intensity sessions right so where you have the ability to intensify it so that way allow somebody who's in great shape they can use that to progress the program and really push through it and then if there was someone who's maybe just better reinforcing postural positions right yeah it's going to have that sort of a carryover from it so yeah we wanted to make sure we at least had an answer out there for somebody that's super decondition so it's not like we're just throwing them into hitting the weights when they haven't even addressed all these imbalances or even just lifting anything at all so correct me if you know I mean if you guys think about what maps should I do I would stick them with maps anywhere maps prime and maps red and I would give them this I would say listen maps prime we're going to incorporate that with maps anywhere and then when you're ready to progress we'll move you to maps red pre phase I would even say just do the fortification workouts in prime for a little while because some body weight movements although they can be very simple and basic for some people who are really really decondition like the most basic movement I think that's perfect example how you decide that would be based off of that right because you want to support the joints because they're taking a lot of load and stress and so that's why it's important to understand where you get the flexibility as far as movement is concerned so I just looked up what it would take for me to be classified and by the way they call this they call morbidly obese obese class 3 and you guys want to guess why they change the name from morbidly obese to obese class 3 I don't know the answer but I'm going to take a wild guess and say that for me who I'm six feet tall I would have to weigh 300 pounds to be over 40 BMI now that's definitely big but that's not so big that I'm stuck in a and like you said a rascal so I think there's a lot more people in this category who are just they're not so decondition that they can't move but they're definitely you know pretty big and the funny thing about BMI which is a little side topic I know athletes who are who's BMI would put them in this morbidly obese like I'm pretty sure there's some NFL players you kidding me who have a BMI over 40 no problem moving and BMI is garbage when it comes to that when it yeah you could get somebody that's super muscular and it's like no dude come on that doesn't work I'd say you know maps prime fortification sessions that's where I would start almost anybody who's deconditioned I would have them do a compass test if you're the if you're deconditioned you're probably going to fail all three tests and then it'll point you to fortification sessions that are connected to the three tests that you failed now for those you don't have maps prime and have no idea what I'm talking about fortification sessions are they're exercises put together and programmed to correct you know major muscle recruitment patterns and imbalances and the focus of the workouts is not just different because of the exercises it's also different because of the intent for example a cable row a seated cable row or even a machine row might be present in a routine for building maximum muscle or body building or even for strength so it may be the same exercise but the intent is totally different like if I'm having someone who I'm trying to put in correctional type workout and I'm having them do a machine row cable row I'm having them use very lightweight even for them lightweight not just lightweight relative but even for them something that's really light that they could do pretty easily they could pull the weight back pretty easily but the intent is perfect perfect perfect form like bringing the shoulder blades back and depressing them and pausing at the the top of the rep where you're squeezing and coming forward with nice control making sure the shoulders don't rise making sure that the that the wrists don't curl that I'm not getting this that everything stays straight intense that I have good core stability the intention with correctional exercise is as important if not more important than the exercises themselves because if I take that same exercise and put more weight on it it's no longer correctional because that person's recruitment patterns will revert back to the old one so if you're listening you don't have a maps program and you're super deconditioned that's the way you should approach your workouts you should approach your workouts with perfecting your form and practicing your form and maybe take videos of yourself doing them and seeing if you can identify discrepancies between right and left and you can see that you know your shoulders may not be moving the way you want or hips may not be moving the way you want if you're on our forum you can post those videos on the forum and have people assess them and then just perfect and then over time slowly add resistance to what you're doing so I guess that's it there you go check it out if you want to ask us a question that we can answer on our show the best place to do it is on Instagram Mind Pump Media is the page to do it I have a personal page it's Mind Pump Sal Adam has one at Mind Pump Adam Justin has Mind Pump Justin and also at mindpumpmedia.com we are still offering 30 days of coaching for free all you got to do and you get it thank you for listening to Mind Pump if your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at mindpumpmedia.com the RGB Superbundle includes maps anabolic maps performance and maps aesthetic nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs with detailed work out blueprints and over 200 videos the RGB 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