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It's time for some honest truth Obesity is a choice Now I do I do want to say this before before we get into it that doesn't mean it's not Super hard to deal with that doesn't mean that oftentimes the cards aren't stacked against you That doesn't mean that there are easier and harder situations And I would even say that people don't and it's not that we shouldn't deal with it with empathy Understand and understanding but what I said is very true being obese is Largely very much largely a choice Do you think there are exceptions to the rule very very little Medical exceptions like less than ten percent less than five percent less than one less than one percent less than one Yeah, it's a very very small now. There's a a range of sizes that people can come in Genetically speaking. I'm talking about obesity. I'm not talking about, you know, 15 pound difference between one person another person But rather the 30 40 50 60 plus pounds of body fat that we see now that it's so commonplace and I know that the arguments. Oh my god this genetics are to play and it's so and you know, that's not quite true if you just go back up 150 years or so for example, there's the famous pictures of Circus back in the day circuses used to have what are called freak shows and they stopped doing these because They're, you know, kind of taking advantage of or poking fun at things that I don't think we should yeah deformities and yeah And it was terrible, right? We'd have like the bearded lady or you know, the crab claw kids with you know Deformed hands and a common one in circus freak shows was like the circus what they would call the circus fat man or fat woman And if you look at these people they have we have pictures of them at the turn of the century They were these people would not they wouldn't turn any heads today They're like 400 pounds or something 300 maybe yeah pounds and today they wouldn't turn any heads but they were so big at the turn of the century, you know, you're talking about like, you know 1890s or 1900 that people paid money to look at them because it was so wild and so odd and We didn't evolve we don't evolve so quickly that all of a sudden our genetics changed so rapidly that now being obese is something that we don't have control over But it just doesn't work that way. I think culturally we've normalized it so much now that Yeah, you don't I mean, that's why I think that that cuts through so hard Yeah, right is because it's we're getting so much information about you know, what what what it is that is actually like You know something that is causing you to have this, you know Obesity this this disease. This is not, you know, your fault like you're a victim of this You know instead And and to be fair like a lot of it is wrapped in with trauma. And so there's there's a lot to unpack there It's not like an easy thing to address totally and you know, there's lots of empathy. It needs to be You know given to to people in that state But it should be an empowering message that you can You can choose to to really address it. That's that's a hundred percent accurate You can have empathy and be honest actually true true empathy and love is honest. That's right It's not lying, but it doesn't it's not being a jerk, right? So what I'm not saying is obesity choice So, you know, so, you know, stop complaining and just go take it or whatever and it's all like no No, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is it is a choice It's hard as hell But one of the worst things that we did around obesity with popular messaging and the fitness industry is partially to blame But popular media in general is mostly to blame is the disempowering message that it's not your fault That you have no power. I should say you have no power over it What a terrible message that we sold people now. Why is that message? Why is that the popular message? Because the sells a hundred percent the the personal responsibility empowering message doesn't sell Bullshit products. It just doesn't if I'm here trying to sell you a product and I say to you Hey, look, you know your choices and what you choose to eat and how you're active and your relationship with food That's largely what will change this. You're not buying anything from me But if I say it's not your fault. Yeah, it's your genetics. Oh my god We got this pill though that'll fix it You're gonna buy what I have to sell if I'm a politician I am not gonna get elected on a message of hey, this is in your power. Here's things you can do I'm gonna get elected by saying it's not your fault. There's nothing to do But if you like me, I'll fix it for you, right? So it's this terrible terrible message and then what clouds it are assholes and jerks That like to point out the I guess the folly and obesity the problem is when you're When you're obese your challenges are out in display for everybody, right? So if you're an alcohol if you're a functioning alcoholic or drug addict or gambling addict or you know Operating the same room and not know you wouldn't know I can't look at someone walking down the street And be like wow look at that shitty husband or bad person, right? I don't know I don't know that but it's I could look at someone who's 80 pounds overweight and say oh they have challenges With exercise and nutrition. I think that's why it's such a sensitive topic totally That's exactly why because it's not it's like you can't You can't hide it the same way that you can hide other conditions or issues, right? So, you know, it's weird though It's like I don't think that statement. I mean I was kind of teasing you about my reaction Because I know that there's it'll trigger somebody But the truth is like that just 20 years ago. That wasn't like a That there was no debate around a whole lot of controversy. Yeah, there was no but because this this idea of health at any size that movement and that you know, you know Demonizing trainers or health professionals or fitness people that are talking about obesity is like fat shaming I think because of that movement in that direction. It becomes like this. Ooh taboo conversation It's like it it's not it's pretty straightforward actually. Yeah, you know, it's like and it and again I can say it without Without it being that I'm I'm I'm shaming you for it like I have I have tremendous empathy I mean majority of the clients that I help most of my life struggle with this in one way or another It's the reason why what we do what we talk about is not the X's and O's most of time It's about behavior stuff a hundred percent and and we why we recommend that people go if you especially if you battle with this And you are morbidly obese that you see a therapist because there's normally a root cause of this and it's not just Law of thermodynamics, that's the that's of course the the science behind why we got in this situation But it's not the the the true mechanism that has caused us to go down this and so I think you can say those things and and also Still have empathy. Look Simple does not mean easy. Okay? Climbing Mount Everest. I mean technically speaking requires putting the right foot in front of the left simple. Yeah Right. It's simple. But does that make it easy? No, it's hard as hell, right? Stopping stopping an alcohol addiction Simple don't stop drinking alcohol, right? Does that make it easy? No Obesity is a challenging issue But the the formula is simple and the problem is a lot of people in fitness They understand that obesity is a choice from that perspective and they treat simple as easy Well, you're just lazy or you're just yeah, whatever and no, no, no It's challenging and it's hard but that also doesn't mean that it is a choice that you're making every single day and Your choice can be to move in one direction or stay on the path that you are But you have to empower yourself first the problem the challenge with being empowered is it requires the Responsibility and the understanding that you have control and that's a hard thing to do It's a hard thing to look at your life or your situation Something that's causing you so much pain. It's very hard to sit down after I don't know 15 years or maybe a whole life of having this pain and saying oh, man a lot of this is my It's my fault like there was a lot of things I could have done that did I didn't do or there's a lot of things I did that contributed to this that's a very painful realization But if you don't make that realization nothing happens, right? Nothing will ever happen for you So and part of the reason why Adam I think the messaging around obesity has started to move in the direction You were saying is because we're getting to the point where a majority of people in modern societies are obese And now when most people or obese well the popular messaging now is hey, leave me alone don't tell me it's fat shaming and And I know it's not it's not a choice and it's not my fault type of deal Because I get it. You don't want to hear it. You just don't you ever try to talk to somebody who's got a real Issue with some form of addiction or dysfunction and they don't want to hear it. Yeah, you ever try? It's it's it's just a it's a losing battle and they don't want to hear it They don't hear it and it's they don't hear anything you have to say. Yeah, especially now because there's so many Different narratives out there to glom on to that will help kind of you know feed your your justification of The you know, well, this is the the identity that now you've you've assumed So now this is who I am and this I'm proud and you know And there's all these other things that kind of go in that direction that you can get behind and it's it's a whole industry It's a whole industry of Feeding you bullshit in a sense to make you feel better Which you know is something that everybody kind of struggles with that right now because there's so much information out there that you can Really get whatever it is you're looking for but what what is really truly healthy for you? What is really truly will feed you? You know sustenance that will will then move you in a direction where your body is gonna benefit from it and you know Everything else will not fire. I think that Money and marketing is is largely Responsible for this messaging, but I also think that the fitness industry is very responsible, too I think it's a it's an overcorrection From the shitty job that we've done for the last, you know Three four decades. Yeah, we just I mean look and look at how we still we still do it We still you know Put bodies up there to show transformation pictures We still promote this motivation hype extreme ways of training and encourage Orify it with shows like the biggest loser. That's right. So I think that And I think that's the where I have empathy for the the people that kind of side with that Messaging of health at every size and it kind of are pushing back Where I understand it is that it's it's a correction from the other extreme It's more a rejection of the terrible messaging and all the crap diets. You know, here's a here's another controversial fact People who struggle with obesity Will have more success Hiring a therapist then they will following a diet or hiring a lot of trainers It's a truth because a lot of this was is not Is not due to the fact that you don't know what's healthy and what's not healthy It's it's more around the behaviors and what's driving it and how you feel about yourself. And by the way too We're talking about obesity right now, but that is I think that's um This is connected to to anything that you you struggle with in life Anything that you do whether it be financial whether it be The way you talk to and communicate to your your spouse or your partner the way you treat your children The way you interact with your peers like So much of this is rooted in in the way you were raised or the trauma that you've been through And then this is just a reflection of that. It's just another one of those This this this person is now just chosen to cope with it Through food and overeating or lack of exercise and movement or the combination of the two of them But they're they're no worse or better than somebody like you were kind of alluding to early on that You know beats their wife or freaking get screams at their kid or you know Gambles like crazy and loses all their money like all these things are Our issues that are are rooted in something deeper than the the the actual mechanism that you're that everyone's being able to see Yeah, I'm sure this you know We have a large audience like if you're watching listeners raise your hand if you're perfect All right, I can tell you right now Nobody is going to raise your hand raise your hand if you have a challenge with something That tends to cause you damage or trouble in your relationships or your own health, right? Uh, everybody's raising their hand. So Obesity is visible and it's easy to pick on and if you're a kid you get picked on for it And you feel not attractive and then the marketing and messaging is so I get it. I get it, right? We're in an environment. We're in a world now where Markets have done such a damn good job of giving us what we want and what we've told markets that we want Is fast cheap tasty food. So that's what we have a lot of And markets we've also told markets what we want is I don't want to move I I want to relax all the time. So lots of products and services are I mean door dash exploded because uh, people like to sit at home They don't I don't want to drive down the street to get food I want it to come right to my door, right? Yeah at some point I'm sure there's gonna be a service where they come to your couch. I don't want to walk to the door I mean we're laughing, but uh, I wouldn't be totally shocked if there was something like that, right? So yeah, it's an environment that's challenging. It requires a completely different approach But that does not mean That it's not that obesity is not a choice that it doesn't come from Choices that you make on a daily basis. And so that's the thing that we need to understand We have to start there. We have to start with the I have a lot of power By the way, I'm not saying everybody is going to get shredded We're all going to look like supermod. That's not what I'm saying. Okay. I'm so I'm talking about just generally healthy. Okay, not You know obesity or extreme in the other direction. I'm just talking about general health, but it starts with People saying I have a lot of control and power over this But boys is hard. I don't know what to do and I don't know what that looks like But I do know that I have a lot of control and power and you have to start there You can't start with I have no control and no power over this and I'm This is I am All of this is a result of things out of my control. So like where do you go from that? Well, do you do you think because obviously it's becoming the norm like you're saying It's more and more of the majority is is becoming uh, you know, they're oh the majority is already overweight And we'll be say things that like almost 40 40 percent is what I think I read last So based off of that Um, do you predict that that will be a motivator to drive traffic into gyms? Or do you think that it'll become like oh, well, this is just how I am Why even go to the gym and work out? So do you think it's going to impact gyms And the fitness space in a positive or a negative or a net a net, you know Net zero from it. It depends and here's what I think. I think if gyms want to be successful Um, I'm glad you brought that up by the way because I wanted to talk about gyms also on some other topics But along with lines of what you're saying I think if we start to talk about fitness and its benefits on mental health I think we'll have way more success and stop Focusing so hard on the physical visible changes that it it provides which it does it does make you look different It does, you know, you look healthier more fit more muscle, you know less body fat all that stuff But if you ask anybody, I swear to god, go ahead talk to anybody who's worked out consistently for more than 10 years And ask them to list the top five reasons why they like to exercise and work out. I guarantee you One of the top five if not number one is the mental benefits. I guarantee you It's not the makes me look good and I like being buffed and I like looking whatever It's the mental health effects. And I think that's what we need to focus more on Could you imagine if people worked out just because they knew it made them feel better mentally and emotionally? You imagine the side effects of that and what that would look like just a happier society. Oh, I would love that Oh, it's just like, yeah, I think a mental part of it is a huge factor And I I think with this information like we just saw one study that finally came out, you know, that that proves that Uh, you know lowering your body fat will help, you know be more resistant towards Uh, any kind of diseases out there any kind of illnesses, you know, and I think that For some reason we just we forgot that or like the general population just ignored that fact That's been around like we've known that and we didn't need a study to tell us that Uh, but apparently we do and so I think with more of these studies finally like kind of emerging Uh and showing people improving people that if you do make better choices with your food Nutrition and you move more you get exercise you get sunlight Uh, you know, you're gonna you're gonna be healthy. You're gonna thrive. You're gonna be energetic again Hopefully that's the push then to put people. I mean that's the hope but the truth is You know media is in the the business of attracting eyes and viewers And nobody wants to hear that that's work. Yeah, that's not sexy. Yeah, it is You know, but the other option doesn't isn't working. No, you gotta make the pill form is not working. No No, no, but I almost like you gotta come back messaging around giving those people hope that they won't have to do anything about it Like, you know, it'd be a bitter headline and that will get more attention and more views and more people talking about is You know Pfizer comes out with a pill potentially that could reduce body fat by you know 2% if you take it every single day for the next five years like that's more interesting And we'll get more attention than all the things that you're saying right now. It's unfortunate I think too when you market fitness So heavily on on the visible changes the physical like aesthetic changes That a lot of it causes a lot of shame sell and hate Within yourself very powerful short-term motivator, by the way, right? If you hate yourself and you feel disgusting You're likely to buy a gym membership or buy Supplements or do something in the short term terrible long term the long term It fails because at some point you get you just can't you don't want to hate yourself anymore And so you you end up stopping but a very short term a very powerful short term motivator But again, I think telling people focusing on the visible physical changes Is going to motivate people the wrong way. I think if we because here's a fact and this is one that is just It's profoundly under Um, I guess under delivered under representative. Uh, maybe misunderstood The effects that movement and exercise have on mental health Are there's no drug that we have on the market that comes close It's at least as effective in the short term is very powerful SSRI drugs in the long term More effective. There's no you don't build a tolerance. It actually keeps getting better, right? Drugs tend to not get better after a certain period of time. You have to change drugs There's other side effects the side effects of the mental health effects of exercise are you get leaner? Stronger more energy hormone balance like all these positive incredible things So I think that's the message that we need to push a little bit Which is part of the reason why I said in a previous episode Why I think we're about to see an explosion In gym memberships. I think people kind of are feeling that I don't know if they're super aware of it But they're feeling like I got to get out and get moving And then combine that with which I think is a negative thing the new fear around I don't know if you're seeing the messaging around Obesity and covet but that's really starting to well. That's the thing I just I feel like you know at some point people are going to go back to the grassroots of like what we're initially trying to do for Improving our our overall health. We all knew what that looked like. Yeah, it's not a mystery You know, it's just been bombarded with this new thing that came about out of nowhere And all of a sudden now pharmaceuticals are the only answer. Yeah, it's not it doesn't make any sense step one Realize that you have a lot of impact and control over it step two Hire somebody that can coach you properly Therapists do a damn good job a really good experience trainer or coach will do a damn good job. And then step three Be kind to yourself because it takes time and it's really hard And and and then you'll have the best chances You'll have the best chances the problem is in the past people are like, okay, I have control I think Let me buy this pill, right? Oh, let me follow this crazy diet and then and then and then it fails and then they do it again and it failed And then what's the message that they get? It's out of my control, right? I can't do anything about it This is just the way it is and whatever. It's not my fault And then you get pissed off and angry and you go in the other direction where you're like anybody who tells me Otherwise is fat shaming me. Yeah, and you're always in a fight. Yeah, I do want to bring something up though and I want to switch to something a little bit more positive and uh, I think Adam just may be the most psychic Investment stock predictor of all time. Yeah, we need to get him a hat or there's a catch to this This is actually a slide not a fucking no I feel like there's been some some smart listeners that have picked up on this and have already done I hope you're about to say I hope so okay So you know in the movie you ever watch a movie where there's like a genie or something and the guy gets You know this says let me give you a wish and he asked for a wish, but there's always a weird catch You know what I mean? So that's here's the catch, right? Adam says we should get this stock or I need to invest in something He doesn't it always crushes the next day This is what happened like five times bro. Yeah, it stings dude. It really does sting This just happened with uh as of the recording of this planet fitness yesterday You know, we were talking about how we predict that the gym industry is going to see a huge surge Because people are just sick of being stuck at home. They want to work out now There's fear around covid and being obese and so it's like lots of people going in And I said that on a podcast and adam went and thought about it and did some research And very I mean smart pick. He said I bet you planet fitness Is going to do really well that would be the gym that a lot of people would flock to Who aren't necessarily fitness fanatics. Maybe we should be hold Maybe I should buy someone we should get well, we didn't and then it went up like I don't know I was up six percent the next day. Yeah, they made it. Well, I had no idea that announcement was coming, right? So obviously had I known that in addition, I probably would have been a little more aggressive about getting us to buy I mean we bought now, right? Do we buy today? Did we get it? Yeah, we buy so we have it now So I I still think it's gonna we're gonna be on a ride for a while They bought 800 million dollar acquisition of 114 clubs. Wow. That's what they announced. What was it? Was it a chain that was going on chain? Oh, wow. Yeah So I was wondering when we're gonna start seeing this like obviously we knew because of covid there was uh There was a lot of gyms that a lot of washout. Yeah, right So and then there's always going to be somebody who makes out on that So there's some of the big chains that are that are probably doing really well Uh planet fitness probably being one of those that was kind of what I thought too Uh, uh, so I don't this may not this may be one of many acquisitions that we're going to see by them And some of these big chains. So yeah, because you have a few comp things, uh, like combined to make the perfect storm A lot of gyms closed down. So that means you have less competition Uh people have been afraid to go to gyms for a long time I think the fear is kind of a little over People are feeling really unhealthy. It's january. It's just historically when people go to work out anyway And then planet fitness has a model. That's very attractive To people in this particular situation. It's very low. It's very inexpensive eight bucks a month I have nothing to lose or whatever. They've got lots of locations. Blah blah blah I don't necessarily like their model as a fitness expert, but I could see as from a business standpoint Um, how it you know could be very valuable So, I mean they're poised to do well, it's also I mean most, uh, brick and mortar gym businesses The stock is you know on the lower end, right? They're not on they're not on an all-time low for 52 weeks But they're kind of like a little over the middle of the row, which was another Reason why I liked it, right? So it's not they're not on a high Uh, because of all the the fear of potentially, you know gyms continuing to struggle So that makes it also alluring, right? Is that they are they're already in a in a lower stock position than what they previously were So I I predict minimum They get back to their 52 week high and then I think they're already almost there, right? and then and then on top of that you got the This january quarter coming and if your prediction was right literally what made me go down that rabbit hole was your prediction I've thought you know the more I thought about what you said is like, you know If the cdc starts coming out and the messaging politically is, you know Advantages to say hey get in and exercise and be healthy, which it seems that that's what the messaging the direction It's heading like you said Okay, who are the big You know who's the most obvious bridge there too, uh for people that don't like the gym setting or like, you know That it seems intimidating exactly that was the other fact price points really low And I could just dabble with it if I want or I could back out it's like that's so my thought was what sal said Is most likely to influence The people that are easily influenced, right? So the people that are easily Put you know the the same people that were double masking driving around in their car by themselves Scared of death and stuff are also going to be the same people that oh my god CDC says I need to get in there and exercise and that that's the best thing I need to do Those are the people and they're going to be drawn to something that's cheap That's easy that speaks to speaks to them. I think planets fitness was on to that model Yeah, or just people who are not who hadn't exercised in a long time and kind of started to feel like they needed to And just needed the permission like oh here's another reason I think i'm going to go do it and it's not a big commitment type of deal So it makes uh, it makes perfect sense fitness fanatics didn't stop working out No, I mean they were the ones that kept going It was uh, it was everybody else So it's going to be really interesting. You know, it's funny too a week ago the ceo from planet fitness Said that he saw no slowdown. Maybe less than a week ago. He saw no slow down In their in their usage even as the new now that does that mean the entire time or just recently in the last quarter Because they had no taking a hit or no right now. Oh, okay. Yeah, so in other words Oh, no january is here. We're seeing no slowdown. People are coming in and it's getting packed 2022 Yeah, it's been a totally shift of mind. I feel I mean you guys even I mean I feel this I suddenly I don't know if I said this on air now. I know I told you guys this I know more more of my friends and family Uh have covet right now than don't yeah, that's how how how much it's spreading right now it went like wildfire this time and In at least in my family and my circle of friends Most of the like the kind of fear around it now that they've either Experienced it or have someone close to them that's experiencing it seems to be really calming down. Of course. So remember I have I have hypochondriac tendencies, right? So I That's something that I always deal with anyway And I try to check it, you know, so I'll get a little fearful and then I'll check it takes me sometimes a day or whatever Well, when I got sick and I got better and it wasn't that big of a deal A lot of my fear dissipated just because you experienced it. You're like, okay You know, I didn't really it's the anticipation and the unknown. Yeah, that gets a lot of people I wonder how many hypo contracts is created over the last A couple years anxious people people who tend to be anxious. This has not been a good two years I'm telling you. Oh brutal checking on your friends that are anxious Said to be anxious. I'm telling you right now. There's they're not doing so well. It was it's a it's been a tough time Yeah, and again back to fitness and mental health if you look across the board Exercise across the board exercise that has such profound effects On mental health that if it were a drug It would be a blockbuster groundbreaking drug There'd be nothing that even comes close to comparing with it In terms of its positive effects and the the it doesn't even have to be Like crazy tons of activity, you know exercise is just Moving it's just getting up and moving has just, you know, tremendous effect And I think there's this compounding effect There's the obvious physical effects that exercise has on the body Which makes you feel more mentally healthy. It's got positive physical effects on the brain and hormones. There's all that But then there's also this side of it, which is I'm doing it and it's working and I'm choosing to do it. Oh, that's empowering Oh my god, and I'm doing it again, and I'm doing again This is a choice that I'm making and you feel It makes you feel better. It's like this positive feedback after you make like solid, you know Choices for yourself that you know are good things for you. Like you just you benefit from that Mentally because you know that like every day you're making a conscious effort and a conscious decision To help improve yourself your body your health And you know, and that's something that is contagious And that's the kind of contagious, you know, we want to oh beautiful I by speaking of crazy fitness stuff Just you guys hear about this guy that he put out that he was gonna do a beer diet lost a bunch of weight This is the kind of stuff that just makes me so This is the follow-up to it wasn't the last one like the I'm gonna pull it out. I'm surprised that's new. I'm surprised. They haven't done it's like a couple. It's like a year and a half old Okay, this guy, um an Ohio man Uh said he's only gonna drink beer To lose weight. So he's like, I'm not eating. I'm not doing anything else. I'm just gonna drink beer And he has lost 33 pounds from doing this Wow All right. Yeah, no damage done. I'm sure no opposite is true going on with Katrina right now So Katrina, I didn't tell you guys this but Katrina, uh set a goal So like she's gonna be mad. I bring this up on the podcast because she's Probably ashamed of this but she set a goal to me. It was so funny when we were it was like the right after our birthday or so She's like, I'm gonna try and drink every day till the end of the year What and I go what? Because yeah, I just I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna enjoy I'm gonna enjoy a drink every day till a single drink Yeah. Yeah. Well, well sometimes two sometimes more Oh, this is getting worse and worse right now And she's like you're not gonna get any sex for a while The goal was January one. She's going completely dry and then she was gonna to pull back So she's one week or what are we on day 11 or something like that, right? So she's a little over a week of being dry and like she's like, oh my god I've already lost a bunch of weight. I'm like, well you're holding on to so much water weight with that I said so Unless there's calories in it. Yeah. Well, no, exactly. I mean she was on average having like two drinks a night You know and they're you know stiff drinks mixed with something, you know, so she never really needs zibotics or anything I remember like offering her one because I was like, dude I don't know because I I kind of go back and forth with it But I know that if I do have I feel so much better if I'm like going hard like that all the time But she's like, yeah, I'm good We're so different when it comes to that like every once in a while I'll get her to take it because I try and explain to her. I'm like, listen, I know you don't get like bad I'm like, but it'll it'll make sure that you so she if she knows she's having More than two drinks. She'll have the zbiotic But if she's just having a couple drinks where I'm the If I'm having one drink I'm having that because one drink can mess me up one drink could mess the sleep up Can give me the headache can make me feel crappy the next day So that's how sensitive I am to alcohol where she's not like that She's really got to go hard for her to actually start to feel that but I thought that was a really cool Nothing. Yeah, nothing already. I already see like her her face looks like it's all leaned out already and she's uh She actually wanted to start with it. You know, this is actually an interesting or a good conversation because anytime I have something where I'm kind of coaching Katrina that either through nutrition or exercise I should always remember to bring it up on the podcast because even with all of her experience and knowledge She still asks like good questions. So She's getting like back in the swing of things and now the ideal program is probably resistance training for her or starter or anabolic because she's she hasn't really been doing anything And she was telling me she goes, you know, I she goes I know I need to I need to start on either starter or resistance because I haven't do anything And I know you tell me that but I just don't you know, I've done that like the last eight times or something like that She's like I just I said it's not that big of a deal I said it's there's nothing that says you can't start with strong or With another program that we would consider advanced now Do I think that it would be in your best interest to start with starter or one of those programs first? Absolutely, but you have to take into consideration Your desire to go do it if that outweighs that if you doing a new program that you haven't done in a long time or You know in in comparison to doing some that you feel like you keep kind of starting over or doing Then that kind of trumps it like because that makes you get up and do because you're interested, right? Oh, it's a new workout. Oh these new exercises. I'm learning. So you have to factor that in Yes, you would be better off Following the way I've taught you to follow the programs because the way we build the volume in on that and we kind of do the progressive overload for you You'll get better results that way But would you get better results then if you're if you're inconsistent with it You don't do it versus following something new that you're excited about So you have to factor that in and so it's not that big of a deal Follow strong and we can move you back to anabolic later on. I hope this doesn't come back to bite me But you can do that as long as you know how to go first off. You can't have any major physical dysfunctional issues or muscle imbalances Because then then that makes a bigger difference But if you're generally got decent movement and you don't have lots of muscle imbalances or issues You can start with one of those other programs. You just have to know how to go easy How to how to ease into it, right? So start off with a lower intensity, right? So, you know and knowing Katrina She's generally fit even when she's not working out or whatever So she totally could she would just have to start off a little bit less intensity and gradually right It's the novelty thing that she's really leaking seeking for right because she she knows anabolic and started like the back of her hand You know between having a baby having her surgery like being off for the holidays She's restarted those programs so many times That she's just kind of like over the same phase and she just wants something unique and different And I say and so she was it's like it's not a right or wrong thing. It's a better or less good thing, right? So I'm like, yes, that would be better for you to do that But not at the cost of you and she can't she or she reported back to me. She's like, I'm so glad I listened to you About doing strong. She's like it's so fun because I haven't done this I forgot all these different movements that I never do and it's challenging and it's different and she goes So just the fact that I'm doing something different like it's got me excited about working out every single day Whereas, you know, I know what started at anabolic is for me every time. So that that that does matter I know we preach a certain way on the show because we're we're always trying to give the best advice But there's other things that you have to factor in some time And if you're somebody who has kind of started the same program over and fell off started fell off started fell off And you're not motivated to do the same thing It's okay to interrupt that with something else even though It may not mean you'll get as good of results as fast and there is a better way to do it There's other aspects that you have to factor in. No, that's that's why context matters so much And that's why when you train people it's like the answer to questions typically is it depends You got to look at everything, right? And then it really depends Hey, did you guys see the news article that came out about the heart transplant? Oh the pig one that I sent you the first Person you got transplanted a genetically modified heart pig heart. Wait. Wait. Wait. Okay Did they grow the heart in the pig or was this like a peachy dish? That's a good question. Justin. We got to find out. Maybe Doug could look it up Only because okay, so like part of me thinks that It You can only grow things in a lab Uh, I don't feel like that's translatable yet. Maybe I'm wrong In terms of like it having to you know pump blood through and like being part of a living organism first Oh, I hear what you're saying to be translatable and accepted Versus like, you know, just something that's like grown in a peach. Yeah, that's a good point. I don't here's my guess I don't know the details when my guess is it was genetically modified so that it wouldn't get rejected Okay, you know, so like they modified it so that it wouldn't get rejected by him Uh, or by humans, but that's my guess And my guess is it was in a living pig because I don't know how I think growing in a lab Like you said would would be a lot more challenging So do they like crisper this like how did they know I genetically modified? What does it say Doug is the same thing they say it's a genetically modified pig heart So that suggests it was done in a lab But I'm trying to get down to the point where it talks about that. Oh, so it was a success though Is that the supposedly supposedly like initially at least right because he has weird desires to roll around in the mud That's that's that's there's been so many reported stories like that though like with animal like what he gets the memories, you know Oh That would be weird. Isn't there some theories around that though that that's all he's all hey, baby Is that I say like fascia like no, hasn't that happened before where people that have had like there's been working transplants Where they like have some weird memory now all of a sudden that wasn't theirs or something It was like a like a serial killer or whatever and like have these weird dark, you know Tendency he's all hey, babe. He's all hey, babe. Can you put on like I like it when you put on about 60 pounds. You know what though? It's uh first off There was one that I read were I don't remember what it was. I think a man Got a heart transplant met this woman and Was just like something was a they were attracted to each other not like sexually or anything like that But just attracted to each other became really good friends. I read the story They come to find out that he had her son's heart her son died in a car accident He got the heart and they felt a strange Connection could you imagine that gives me chills? Could you imagine that's fighting that out? Oh, that's so weird So it looks like the pig was actually genetically modified itself. It's a real pig. They modified the pig See that makes sense to me. Yeah More so because it's yeah has modified him to have like more human traits. I guess so. Yeah No, I think it's so it wouldn't reject that. Well, no, I mean. Yeah, it's something to uh make it so be compatible You go in the lab in the lab man. I'm telling you guys you go in the lab and there's like all these big cylinders with like pig Man, please help me. Oh What other animal let's let's make some predictions. What other animal at what point do you think humans are going to use genetically modified animal Parts to make them super human, you know what I mean, you know, it's funny how it's funny how Arms how more accurate, you know, weird sci-fi movies and shows like star wars are beginning Like I remember whenever like as a kid watching star wars and then like seeing all these creatures and animals I was just like, oh, that's so far fetched like this. It could never but like how much more does that seem plausible now Like that you have these kind of human like animal like creatures Like if we keep crossing over and transplanting and playing with crisper and stuff like that now, it's like Maybe it's not that far and those human monkey embryos Well, imagine if you could like modify yourself to have like the ability to smell like a dog Or to focus on far objects like an eagle although I will say this that would pose some serious challenges I bet if if we did that let's say we had the technology and could all of a sudden make you smell like a dog It would be so overwhelming. You couldn't process it because you just you don't you don't know what the hell is going on Of course, Doug pulls up a picture of the yes What was that job as a pig? Yeah You know speaking of like news that came out today, uh, I don't know if you guys saw, um, Alex Hormozzi. Oh, yeah, did you see the news on him selling his franchise? So Doug just read his book right the hundred million plus. What's it called our roots his book? $100 million offers. Did you finish it? Are you still in it? No, I went through the whole thing Oh, you went through it already and you like it. I love it. So you're in the business of marketing I recommended he's so I okay. He's he's connected to our our buddy Jason, right? So he's at nci And jason is the one who introduced me to him before now I'd seen his ads pop up before but I actually knew nothing about him Like I didn't know was this guy really successful. Was he just a marketing dude? Like what's his what's his deal? And jason talks all about he says he's a really great guy So then of course, I'm sorry to follow him. I know you've talked to him now about getting on the show So hopefully we'll interview him. We can talk more in depth But he just sold 66 percent of his gym launch business, which is his main source of income that he does And I think he got 46 million for it. In addition to that, he still has 44 percent control and he's on the board Oh, cool. Wow, just a what a credit. It's it blows my mind like how Because just I mean 15 years ago when we were like in brick and mortar like Anybody and everybody that was making millions of dollars. You knew who they were we knew them especially in fitness It's like the my first experience when we first met Mike Matthews, right? Like when we I didn't know who Mike was and then find out this guy's got this big old business I'm like, how is this dude like has this massive business and I've never heard of him in our space It's like it's so it's it's more common now that we the meet or see these people like this that Weren't even on my radar and they're building businesses that are hundreds of millions of dollars It's never I'm against it's probably controversial to say, but it's true. It's never been easier To be a millionaire as it is right now. It really has it's really never been easier. That's a fact, isn't it? It is a controversial. It's controversial because there's a lot of political messaging that tells people otherwise Yeah, people want to you know, a majority of millionaires are self-made by the way That's that's a fact the majority of people who are millionaires did not start that way didn't inherit it They I think it's over 80% did it themselves today You could reach more people With a product easier and cheaper than ever before starting a business is less expensive requires less capital less risk Than ever before getting your product to people has never been easier than it is today Uh companies like amazon didn't exist and the internet didn't exist efficiency is through the roof Social media didn't exist with social media for all of its negatives. There's also a lot of positives with it. So it's a It's a great time If you're trying to you know become successful It's there it's there if you if you want it. Yeah, it's it's it is I mean, that's why I mean nci is blowing up watching jason and what they're doing like I mean more and more I think there's a little bit of hesitancy and fear from some people that are aspiring to be trainers or moving That space thinking that it's oversaturated because you're you're seeing the ads You're seeing the people posting all day long. So you have this feeling of like, oh, everybody's doing this Everybody's selling fitness everybody's into but it's to your point It's just it's so easy to get started that just anybody can do it It doesn't mean that it's oversaturated and there's not room to to scale a massive business You know like someone like alex so much room training people or coaching people Not in person. So we say virtual now, but just to say not in person That existed 20 years ago 30 years ago, too. It was just super small. It was not a business It was very very tiny. There were some people that did it through the phone or through Letters, I guess or whatever Maybe email when it first started today Coaching and training virtually is I would say one of the fastest growing segments Of personal training and coaching one of the things that nci says is that one of the biggest mistakes online coaches make is they They emulate like exactly what in person training is like which is a mistake. It's not the same at all It's actually you can't just turn them once or twice a week or you know connect to them once or twice a week And then not there has to be more follow-up and more connection and more things that complement it. It's different It's a different. Yeah, although it's it's similar in many ways. It's very different I remember going through it like when I got into and I I mean If it wasn't I'm obviously like this is what nci is in the business of doing but I would recommend people get in person training experience first before they even thought about doing virtually now And that's because I didn't think their business is like nci existed to help people with that gap Because I I had to lean on I didn't know about nci when I first did this before even mine pump, right? I didn't know about that. So I leaned heavily on my experience and knowledge from training people in person And I had to kind of troubleshoot my way through like, okay How do I take that product and make it kind of virtual and how do I give that same type of service? How do I scale it? Yeah, and I had I started very low price point and I worked my way up as I figured it out and learned what I do And I just I had what I saw back then when I was doing it Was exactly what you just said that nci thinks is one of the one of the biggest issues with online coaching Is this idea of oh, they they buy coaching from you and then you check in once a week with them or it's like very And it's like I was constantly in contact. I was Constantly having to communicate things because I wasn't getting them in person I didn't have that hour to impact them which I was able to do in in person I had to I had to hit more touch points to get the same kind of messaging across Because it it wasn't the same. Yeah, they have a connection based coaching model that teaches some of this and They're actually going to give it away for free for a few days So that's an expensive course that they have But they're giving it away for a few days to get people in So they could show them like okay, here's how You can build a successful online coaching business and and now that we've been working with them I've met a lot of these coaches Who've built successful businesses doing this now success is measured by yes The amount of money they make but also by the results that their clients get the How much people value what they do which you know, I've said this before and I'll say it again If you want to be successful In fitness Monetarily you have to provide success to your clients in real ways It's the only way to do it. Otherwise you'll have this unless you're like super lack integrity liar You know scumbag and even then that's going to be flashing the pan stressful and constantly try I mean, that's what happens when all your concern about is acquisition over retention that model In this in this day and age it works temporarily Because there's so many people out there that you can just keep going through millions and as long as you're converting at a Certain percentage you can run that you could run for a while and have a you know, it's funny about that successful business for a while So here's what's funny about that. So I'll bring it back to the gym business when I first got into the gym business we didn't have Yelp and rating systems and internet where someone could look up. Hey, what's the Process like this over this jam or whatever So there were a lot of sales people That had this mentality. We had we worked in a very aggressive environment to put it lightly, right? So when I first got started with 24 fitness this was in the heyday when 24 fitness was exploding and kind of writing the book on on gym success. They had just Purchased or acquired a large gym chain themselves You know speaking of which earlier and there was an aggressive environment because there was a lot of dynamic people It was growing and some salespeople thought That you blew people out the door you either buy a membership or i'm gonna i'm gonna blow you out the door So you have to like literally get up and walk out my office because i'm not letting you leave unless you buy something They had this attitude, right? And in some ways it was successful from a dollar standpoint But of course in other ways it was not successful because you just pissed off people as they walked out But you got away with it for a while Because there was no internet or anything with communication now at some point it started to get back and people started Reputation follows you everywhere. It started to grow now You can't get away with that like you used to right because of the because of the way people Communicate and let people know and all that stuff. So I think today. Yes, you can you can kind of rip people off But we've already seen it with popular fitness influencers come back and sting you You know 10 fold and then you're screwed you're screwed you have to provide value and and you know You want to just focus on that you don't want to focus on numbers and volume And I think this is where a lot of these masterminds and these other things go Way sideways is like how to get popular how to get attention how to get You know all the views all the clicks all the people like That's like not even your concern at this point. Your concern is value Your concern is what what it is you're providing these people that will then Build upon itself and then you know grow from there Yeah, when I when I had my my studio my personal training studio and I opened it I was in a new town Nobody really knew me in that town before that I managed big box gyms and and trainers and salespeople and stuff And it took me a couple years to build a relationship I never spent a dime on advertising after that I had so many referrals that I kept rising my prices because I would have weightless Because I created a good reputation That is the opposite power that you can have when you create so much value Well, the statistics on that are extremely high too. Like the yes the conversion rate on a referral is like upwards of like 80% Oh my god cold lead conversions like less than 17 percent. It's like super low. Oh, yeah If you're looking to you know work out or get fit and healthy and your friend is like, oh You got to work with so-and-so. They're so good. They're so awesome Or you just hear about them all the time Like you don't even that person doesn't have to sell anything. You're ready. You show up and like I'm ready to do this So but and the opposite is also true. You start to build a bad reputation Online you get a bad reputation as a scam artist That's it trying to erase that basically means you have to start your business. You're done once it's done You know and and I do believe so I still think it's a viable message for these some of these masterminds Like Justin was talking about to get away with it and still make money and that's why they're still around But that that uh that life cycle is shortening Like how long you can get away with like you used to be able to get away with it for an extended period of time Where you could probably get the bag and and get out You know I'm saying and still still have a decent amount of money that you made off of all these people that you fooled Or you didn't deliver a good service But because of reviews and how fast things move and read it like You just this life cycle that is getting shorter and shorter back in the day snake oil salesman So that's you know to get the term snake oil salesman. That's because back in the day you had these Traveling salesmen they go town to town and they sell the like and they would sell fake cures Right, you know and snake oil was like a common You know one that they would talk about snake oil to cure your gout or whatever But really it was anything like this is the cure for baldness. This will make your your husband love you This will make whatever and they would get a wagon. This will cure women of hysteria. Yeah That's a vibrate everybody look it up. That's what vibrates are meant for that was my favorite one and it actually worked No, but they would load up a wagon with their fake garbage and they would go town to town because they would rip people off and because There was no way to communicate really quickly or effectively to other towns They get away with it. So they go town to town to town to town Make up a lot make a lot of money ripping people off you rip people off today And the news gets out on the internet people give you bad reviews or whatever I'd say you're totally screwed And coming back from that is like good luck. You have to change your name Like uh, what was that supplement company that had to change your name shreds shreds That's a new name now. You know, I haven't followed up on those guys to see where they're at. Remember, I brought up What's his face joey swole moved to that other one that was called um, rise rise Yeah No, no, no, it's it's it's s. It's r y s e. I think it's rise. I think that's how they spell rise supplements But remember they had they got I mean they got some karma greger in there for a minute Yeah, so I don't know where I but I haven't seen an ad one for it for a long time So it'd be interesting to see if it was he's probably like, why do you guys always pick on me? You know, I'm starting out with Dan Bilzerian This is my pump guys He doesn't care. He's giving investment advice. He's just still ripping people off. He doesn't care. I go get your NFTs guy Hey, real quick one of our favorite sponsors actually one of the companies we worked with the longest Is organifi now one of my favorite products from organifi is their plant-based protein So if you're somebody that wants to take protein powder Dairy bothers your stomach egg protein gives you gas But you want something that's not going to bother your digestion that you can tolerate But also has a good amino acid profile Organifies plant-based protein is one of the best they combine different sources of Plant-based proteins to give you a favorable amino acid profile so that you get the anabolic effects of the muscle building effects of protein It's easy to digest very very low instances of intolerance. It's a great product By the way, they have other plant-based products you can check out another one to look up is pure It's good for cognitive health their green powder is good for overall health much much more So go check them out. Of course, we have a big discount Go to mind pump partners.com Find organifi click on them and then use the code mind pump for 20 off. All right. Here comes the rest of the show Our first caller is ian from maryland ian. What's happening? How can we help you? Wow, this is sow adam and justin right that we're all here, buddy Okay, I watch you guys every day You guys have been a huge inspiration and have really just changed my life in terms of fitness I just want to say thank you guys for that so much. You're welcome man. Thanks for listening Thanks for a couple man. All right, so I'm just going ahead and dive into my question So I'm gonna give you a very slight backstory then get into exactly what um, uh, what I actually get called for today So I started working out in october of 2020 and before that I was in school Well college I didn't really work out a lot. Uh, I ran high school tracks Oh, that's when I worked out But this was my first time really hitting the gym and I was just doing a split routine and you know Making steadily good progress but not really, you know, it was it was pretty decent with slow slow gains But it was perfectly fine And then around march is when I was introduced to you guys and you guys were just a Huge help, you know from the tips you guys gave to the full body workouts every single thing Every single thing that you guys preach on a day-to-day basis Uh really changed up my whole the entire whole entire progress. So I was able to you know, not only increase strength gains by a lot Uh, I also gained a lot of muscle mass too because um, I was uh, I think you describe as an ectomorph. I believe you say a lot So is that how you say it when you were super skinny with a small body type? Yeah ectomorph or or uh, wouldn't be like adam I would I was an ectomorph super small one to gain muscle now is my priority and after listening you guys you guys You know definitely changed up that whole progress. Awesome. So long story short I'm at to where point where I'm at now where I still want to see strength games still on the shirt Plus still doing positive But I decided to switch up the workouts because something that I know just And you guys talk about consistently is just doing that different plane working out different planes So I decided to go ahead and switch from my full body workout routine Which is like a typical five by five to now actually dominate some mass performance, which has been great And I'm at the end of it right now So now I decided to move on to that and go with some maps ocr Um, just a quick side note I did sign up for option option course one because you guys inspired me as the Spartan one But with that being said though, I still want to be able to maintain my strength games And I know that ocr the way that it's programmed. It's a lot of running involved So I know that can sin compete and signal signal. So I was asking you guys What's the best way for me to structure maps ocr where I can maintain my strength games Or what can I do maybe add in a day or something? I don't know how I should structure to make sure that I just maintain my strength and my muscle mass and I lose lose it Yeah, Ian That's a good question. Uh, the best answer is the follow maps ocr is laid out So every program that we create the idea is to maximize performance for the specific goal that the program is created for And part of that is maximizing strength and muscle In relation to the context of the goal. So that means that in ocr training maximizing strength so long as it contributes to Your performance in ocr. So you got to remember something in strength is can be relatively specific. So A power lifter Is going to be stronger than a strongman lifter in specific lifts in this specific context But a strongman lifter is going to be stronger in a different context, right? And so this is true for all athletes So strength can be defined in many different ways I think you're absolutely fine. You're going to go on ocr. Will you lose some strength in your deadlift squatting bench? Probably But you'll gain it in different ways that'll maximize your performance in ocr and then you come back When you come back, you're just going to be more balanced And that's really the key right unless you're just looking to work out for a few months and then that's it But if you're looking at this long term You're going to see yourself move in and out of different adaptations and goals and overall They all contribute to each other to a more balanced functional strong Healthy body and physique. No, that's not to say that he can't manipulate ocr or do some sort of a blend Of ocr and like anabolic or performance, right? There's nothing that says you can't do that and The only thing excuse me the only thing that is going to happen though If you do that right so and what i'm hearing is is similar to like maybe the experience I had when I did like I did a tough mutter. So I did something similar, right? And when I did it all I wanted to do was I wanted to be good enough to beat my two buddies that I was going after I really didn't I wasn't trying to be the best ocr guy I wasn't trying I cared more about my physique and my muscle than I cared about like being a top ocr As long as you beat your out of shape friends That's right I just wanted to beat my out of shape friends because I was talking shit one day and they were making fun of me Of being like this meatball buff guy and I said listen I could still get out there on one of these fucking obstacle course races and whoop your ass And so that was all I wanted to do and at the same time I didn't want to sacrifice all the hard work that I put in to build this physique and and put all this muscle on so I trained a little like ocr, but still kind of trained like a meatball You know bodybuilder guys so If if that's kind of where you're at where you're like, yes, I want to get out there and do this ocr thing I just want to prove that I can do it Then there's nothing that says you can't take part of ocr Add in a couple of the runs here and there instead of running as much as we have you running in there Do some of the obstacle course like Strength specific stuff for like your forums, which I think you should do because that's going to benefit you because a lot of the things In ocr is like requires good grip strength But then still kind of run an anabolic type of routine And basically what I would do is I would just kind of split the week in half and say, you know Half the week i'm doing like an anabolic full body routine and then the other half i'm kind of following ocr Now if you do that Um, you're going to sacrifice how good you're going to be at ocr But if i'm hearing you correctly that may be less of a priority to you and your strength and maybe your physique is more important to you But what sallow is saying is absolutely true too nothing if you were to follow ocr to a t Let go the fact that you might lose a little bit of strength in your your deadlifting squat and all that hard work You put in and then know that when you get out of your ocr training and you get back to anabolic You get back to strong or you get back to one of our other programs You're going to blow right back up and you I guarantee you within that program You'll catch up and probably surpass your current pr numbers. So Both options are are are completely okay. It really depends. What do you what do you want from this? Yeah, I think there's I mean, this is a very common fear. I think there's a lot of paranoia around Losing the muscle that you work so hard to achieve but not realizing You know as you go back into that type of training, it's going to come back pretty quickly It's not something that um, you know, if you do lose a bit of strength gains just because you're focusing more on endurance I mean, this is a phase. This is a period where now we're hyper focusing on something that your body's trying to adapt towards That's you know in a different direction, but will You know benefit the overall so I honestly I think that if You know if you're comfortable with it to to really dive into it and do it exactly how it's laid out And you're going to be just fine. You're going to find that you're going to probably enjoy it Your body is going to have a different Sort of a goal to achieve and acquire a new skill that you can improve upon and then come right back And you know, it's going to be like, uh, you know, you just interrupted it briefly Yeah, you know one more thing and I'm going to make it more specific now specifically to you You sent us a question a written, uh question. There's got more details on what you said on the podcast Do you mind if I go through some of? Oh, no, that's perfectly fine. I just didn't want to hit all of you guys time No, no, I'm going to read off a few things just for Doug. Doug appreciates that Ian just so you know Yeah, no I'm going to go through some of the stuff just for the the people listening or watching right now So in your written question you had said that you have well, you already told us You have a background in track. Um, so that tells me that you've done a lot of running You're probably pretty damn good at it. You weigh 151 pounds And your bench is 245 your squat is 330 and your deadlift is 405, which are Solid exceptional numbers for uh, somebody your size Because of your track background your body weight and your strength Uh, I don't think you're gonna have trouble with ocr training. Yeah, I think you're gonna be totally fine In fact, I think You could jump in it right now and you'll do better than most people With almost no training. Uh, just because of your background. I mean your body weight to strength ratio is so high That, you know, You know going across bars and stuff like that with your hands is not going to be as hard as somebody who weighs You know 200 uh, plus pounds. So keep that in mind as well You know consider that you're you're you're in better You're in a better position than most people anyway Just because you're training background the biggest challenge people have with ocr Is the running and the stuff that has to do with the grip Those are the two most common complaints, uh, or you know concerns that people have after they do An ocr race, but you already got the running down. I think you're probably going to be fine with the running The hand stuff. Yeah, I'd say you're probably okay if you could pull four or five at 151 You're probably gonna be okay. Maybe work on some stamina with that. So I wouldn't worry too much and then the last thing I'll say is this People are so worried After they gain muscle that if they lose it it's gonna take as long as it took them the first time to gain it back Even easier it's super fast Once you gain it like that's the hard part the first time is the first time you gain muscle Is the hard part the second third fourth fifth time Way different. It's way different and way easier. So if you do lose Five pounds of muscle and maybe before it took you four or five months to gain it. You'll gain it back in a few weeks I mean, so don't trip selfishly, uh, you know, if I was your coach I would actually love to see you run ocr to a t and see with your background and already where your strength to weight ratios Yeah, I think you could actually I think you could be a top guy that finishes in his first, you know First ocr race. So there's a selfish part of me as a coach. I'd be like, let's see what we can Let's see what we could do with your you're with hunter mac and yeah, your abilities already. I bet we could make you Win this goddamn. Yeah, you've almost got the perfect body type for ocr your body weight and your strength In your background. Yeah, and with your competitive background I'm gonna assume You're a competitive individual have some fun with it, man Go out there and see what you can do. Maybe it's something you fall in love with and it becomes a new passion Well, I will thank you guys so much and I guess I know I'm only as fast as one but a quick question Which should I run after this? What should you run after this? Well, you don't go back to strength for sure. Yeah, I would go. Have you done map strong strong? Yeah No, I haven't I was with that was my next one. I wanted to look into yeah We'll send that to you even if you don't have that I'll send that over to you Oh, thank you. Thank you guys so much. You got it, man. Thanks for the thanks for listening to the show Appreciate it. Of course. Thank you. Thank you guys. Have a great day. You guys Yeah, I get the by the way I want to be clear when I give advice or when all of us give advice on the podcast We're in trainer mode that doesn't mean that we don't uh feel the same way when it's our own selves I know what even now that's why I wanted to share that Because I I was exactly I can't say I was exactly like this because he's got a runner background And I don't I don't know what his motivation of OCR is but I was in a point It was literally this was we were playing video games my two best friends and myself We're playing video games. We're doing something starts exactly right probably smoking some weed right and and they taught Maybe I was smoking weed and that's what they're making fun of me And they were making fun of me that I I didn't have I won't have the endurance because I smoke and now I'm all this Like big meathead and I was just like No, I'll get out there and smoke your both your asses right now on that and they're both ex athletes from school When we were kids and stuff like that. Did you end up beating him by the way? I did Although it was fucking hard I'm not gonna lie like because I did I did have this attitude of like listen I just need to train a little bit, you know a little bit of cardio and get my cardio up there And then I'll be able to and maybe some grip strength stuff because I was pretty I think at that time I was like two 30 to 25 somewhere around there So did you guys have to dive in that cold water for the plunge? So I did tough mutter and tough mutter I think is a little bit easier than spartans Spartans a little more running like tough mutter Or they do or excuse me not tough mutter. I'm sorry muddy buddy So they actually use split half running half biking And you have a partner and you kind of you go back and forth So anyways, Doug later on google muddy buddy My point my point though of bringing that up so he knows is that I know as a coach I would want him to run through ocr stick to it just the way it is Understand that when he gets out of that, he's gonna be totally fine But I also his his probably his sentiment it resonates with me because because I didn't do that I didn't go from meathead adam training to like, oh, I'm gonna train ocr like because I'm gonna go do You know gain the muscle back real easy. Yeah. No, I was like I I cared so much about what I had built And I didn't I didn't want to even if it was a short regression back and I know better I was like, I don't need to I could but then I might but I want to be very clear My goal wasn't to be the best ocr race. I just needed to beat my two fucking slept friends here Like it's all I need to do like I did not I hope they listen to the Now if I if I one of them does right if I wanted to be The best ocr racer I would have absolutely committed to training like an ocr race or like what we wrote the program Yeah, I get it too. It's like, you know, I know if I lost five pounds of muscle It would be easy to gain it back that still doesn't mean I don't freak out if there's an opportunity to lose five pounds It still doesn't mean you don't want to either. Exactly. I still I get it I totally get it but the advice that we're giving is is accurate even if we don't necessarily take it ourselves sometimes All right, our next caller is kyle from maryland Hey kyle, how can we help you? Hey guys, how are you doing? Thank good. Thank you for allowing me to come on here and ask my question And as always thank you for all that you guys do for the community um My question is specifically in regards to trigger or mobility days So i'm currently in phase two of maps performance My second time running performance. I bought at the beginning of last year ran it then And then I ran uh anabolic Finished up anabolic moved back into performance Through anabolic, uh felt great kind of stuck to the trigger sessions as programs moved into performance and um on the mobility sessions, uh Seen to be overdoing it. So When you guys talk about practicing a movement or kind of tailoring your guys programs towards an individual So Would you suggest maybe doing some of these movements such as practicing like a clean or yoke walk towards the end of a foundational day or would you suggest keeping it on a On a mobility day, but When you talk about practicing and like a weight Are we thinking like 20 to 30 percent of like a max or I tend to find myself maybe in like a 50 to 60 percent weight wise of a max so Having a few more aches and pains through performance or just looking for some guidance on maybe tailoring it more towards What I continue to like to do with uh being a little bit more athletic and Looking forward to hearing from what you guys have to say. Okay. Well, um So here here's a uh a nice rule of thumb When you feel like you're overdoing it Your your body's talking to you and you feel like um, this might be a little bit too much aches pain stiff Probably are If you think you are you're probably yeah. Well, I mean in other words you you are but here's what I here's the rule of thumb The first thing that I would uh change is the intensity. That's the first The factor the first component to manipulate. So rather than taking those movements out Just reduce the the intensity way down start with that. So you said 20 to 30 do that Just bring the intensity way down and what ends up happening is they end up start they start to become More uh recovery minded. They start to facilitate recovery more Then creating damage now if that doesn't work, then I would start to take Movements out and just to include more rest You would you would do that with what he so he brought up like care yoke carries and what it was the other one Like those are kind of queens. Yeah, farmer rocks. Yeah, not really something farmer walks. Yeah Probably something I would put on my foundational days and then add that to the end of my workout I would say that but also too. I mean, there's a way to do farmer walks where you're really just hyper focused on your posture You're doing more of a posture walk. Yes. Um, and I think that that would be a good option for you could carry weights that aren't like super demanding and and just really just Focus on keeping your body under control and the great posture Uh and and stacked well, so um, I think there's a way to do it And I think that uh, you're on the right track in terms of Thinking you need to reduce your intensity and kind of bring that down because I Honestly, I think there's a lot of value in practicing these movements at a really really low intensity You see a lot of olympians do this Uh specifically so they hone in on the skill of of that specific movement So totally in the comment like on the other side of the question, which was should I put them on foundational days? technically doing All the exercises that are hard on one day Is going to be more demanding than even splitting them up and doing them more frequently So I know it sounds sometimes counterintuitive But it's not it's actually worse To do all the intense stuff on one day Rather than just lowering the intensity and doing those movements on the following day So that's where I would start I would start doing exactly what Justin is saying There's a lot of value in those movements With light weight there's tons and you just really you're just and if you ever watch I don't think I don't know if Justin's ever done a video on this but I'll see him sometimes doing these in the studio Where he's doing a former walk and he's holding like you know 40 pound dumbbells Which is you know, he could easily use with 120 pound dumbbells, but he's walking with like super purpose very focused You know posture is perfect. It's heel toe. It's lined up. It's activated core And so he's making a lot out of that movement, but the damage on the body is super low And in many cases it's actually it actually facilitates recovery are all those movements in performance all of them are not the the power cleans but uh high pulls are and I I suggest actually to a lot of athletes to replace that the second time you run it With cleans if that's something so to me, that's what I would do with some of these movements that you like doing Is I would I would find exercises inside performance and replace it on my foundational days and then stick Solely to mobility on mobility days. Yeah, that's another that's another That's what I would I would find movements that are in performance That you that are that you could interchange some of these movements in there and I'd put it on my foundation I still would take the advice though of having days where I go light Yeah, because I do this right so all every once in a while you'll see me kick my shoes off I'll go barefoot and you'll see me do these carries with a lightweight And I'm just I'm paying attention to the way my my foot hits the ground And I'm like actually like gripping my toes totally on the grass while I walk and I'm thinking about my posture My chest is high my I'm tucking my chin like and I'm just I'm thinking about every every part of the movement And I'm more focused on how I move than I am how strong I am But then maybe I'll come back on the next week and I'm like, you know now I want to test my strength a little bit So then I do want to carry some heavy weight if when I do those I definitely want to Replace it with something else that's probably intense inside the foundational days and it would go there And I I mean this is this is all personal, right? So this is this isn't you have to do it this way, but I like in performance I like sticking to the to mobility work like that is switching that mindset of it's just this is all about You know mobility and active recovery I don't like blending my active recovery type of mindset with something that is You know Challenging like that like that where I'm going to be pushing the intensity or even an exercise that I like to push the intensity Because then I'm I'm more likely to do that where it's like it's a Just like and you know we tease south sometimes about his music and stuff, but This is where like I even shift my shift my music, right? I do that like it's mobility Like I don't I don't want to throw lamb of god or rage against the machine on what I'm doing mobility I'm going to do so like that's when I listen to my hip hop, right? I'm going to listen to something kind of easy country. Don't lie our country That's right. So I'll listen to something like that and it's a whole mindset, right? That's my mobility days are you know, and I had to do this because I come from a place of The overtraining and and pushing the intensity all time and always wanting to see what I can do And so, you know when I go into my mobility days I don't like to to to muddy that or convoluted with some other type of movement that I'm going to be more likely to Push intensity, you know consider this to Kyle if a movement is too much Then that means it has no value. So what you don't want to do is get stuck in the oh man I don't want to skip that exercise because it's such a valuable exercise. Well if that exercise is too much It's not valuable. So and I think we sometimes we do that. We think oh, I don't want to skip cleans I don't want to skip farmers walk. Those are so good And they are when they're appropriate when they're not appropriate. They're not valuable So that's the mentality that you have to have when you're trained, but honestly intensity if people just manipulated intensity Appropriately you you could get away with doing a lot of stuff. You really could so you don't necessarily and And what adam said about mindset is totally true, but you can also do this and I've done this before I've done traditional exercises Let's say traditional bodybuilding exercises with the meant mobility mentality So like if I'm going to do squats to build my muscle I might have 315 on there 365 if I'm doing it for mobility. It's 135 I'm going slow. I'm at the bottom. Yeah, I'm challenging my range of motion. Now. It's like a mobility movement. Does that make sense? Right. Yes. Okay. Do you have naps prime pro or prime by the way because I think those are yes Okay. Yes, I do. All right. You know, there's nothing that doesn't say also that on those other days Uh, you just take you take some individualized correctional exercise mobility movements from prime pro And doing those in replace of the mobility sessions that are in performance just to make it more individualized That's also an option. I also want to just commend you for for having the awareness too Of knowing that you're probably overreaching a bit because your body's trying to talk to you. It's amazing to me How how many people including myself ignore those signals, you know And want to just keep pushing through it. And so the fact that you already recognize that your body's kind of talking to you I need to modify or change something. Um, it's it's the right question. You're asking Yeah, I appreciate that. Thank you very much. No problem. Kyle. Thanks for calling in Absolutely. Thank you guys. Thank you. You know, it's it's a it's a little frustrating when they have the programs I want to give them for free So I didn't I I didn't I guess I didn't realize that we we programmed all of those into performance I'm trying to picture where they're where they're so we actually have those in some of the mobility days And they're specifically for Like like farmer walks for instance like athletes. Yeah, it's for athletes. It's also supposed to be light It's not supposed to be like a super demand. That's why I don't remember because it's not programmed into foundational Dude, I didn't want because we have a couple different versions of mobility sessions in there. Yeah, and I'll tell you man Farmer walks and overhead carries and in these movements. It's okay. I'm diving deep in Those movements done light versus heavy. Totally different. No, you're right. It's such a different experience It's such and it's such a great thing that I think most people don't do And and it was a it was a great opportunity to highlight that because I've seen all of us do that I've seen all of us Have a day where you're doing something really really light that traditionally is done with a lot of load And and that's what it what it looks like. I love to kick my shoes off on that. Exactly. I was gonna bring up Yeah, I do that barefoot. It's a perfect time to do that. Yeah, I do make it But okay, so here's the I don't do it just to give an example for someone listening or watching That's like, well, what is the what is the weight difference between the two because that's a big question, right? What do you mean lower intensity? Do I drop the weight in half? I'll give you an example If I do trap bar Farmer walks, that's a trap bar deadlift bar and I'll do a farmer walk if I'm going heavy I'll go up to four or five four fifty five That's the heavy version when I'm going light What it's it's 135. Yeah 100 pounds. That's how big the difference is I mean, but what we're talking about the truth is the the weight should not be that actually relevant Well, I'm saying that just so people know it's so light. Yes. I almost think it's like I just want to be holding something We're about controlling your body. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. So it's like, you know, you pick a weight that The thing that you know, when you stop your set, it's not because it got too heavy for you to hold You know I'm saying so absolutely our next caller is dan from alberta dan. What's going on, man? Hey guys, uh, first I want to say, uh, uh, thanks for the opportunity to talk to you guys and uh, thanks for all The content you put out. I've found it really helpful Um, what I was wondering from you guys is how would you recommend programming for a strong man style event? Like specifically, what is the best way to Incorporate carries sled drags Uh, it pushes I've done a couple competitions Over the past few years my performance in these events have been pretty mediocre and after Uh, three years I'm having a hard time just improving my performance I find the weights easy to move But uh, what my difficulty is is uh lowering my time for each event Last year I tried doing maps and a ballad all of my performance and then uh event specific training and I found, uh, not much improvement So I'm just not sure what I'm doing wrong. Okay, dan. I got I got the sometimes every once in a while We get a question where I have the perfect answer. I know Wow, it's weird because we literally created this program that you're hoping for do you have maps strong? I do not know we're gonna send that to you so since it was written for exactly what this is We wrote maps strong with uh, robert ober. So he's a uh professional strongman competitor It was literally written Strongman style training. That's the best program that we have for exactly what you're asking for I'm gonna send that over to you But because the answer is so easy and fast. Let's get a little bit deeper. Let's talk about your Well, let's you're go ahead. Let's talk about what is something he said specifically that I think is very unique to this program Uh, that is going to benefit him tremendously and that's the uh work sessions Oh, yeah, that's that's what he just talked about how the weight and his strength seems to be fine But his he's not improving his time. This isn't quite yeah So, I mean the work capacity that you get from training those work sessions is I guarantee every one of your events you You're faster at yeah, it's it's it's literally perfect for what you're asking for But the other side of the question I was asking has to do a little bit more with your nutrition I want to make sure that that's not holding you back. Are you tracking your food and fueling your body properly? I know strongman competitors benefit from having a little bit more size And weight on their bodies. And so if you're if your nutrition isn't Fueling that it can definitely make things a little bit more challenging. Are you tracking your food? Uh, I do not track my food. Uh, currently no, okay. What's your body weight and how tall are you? um, I'm six two right now. I'm uh Sitting on a heavy side for me a 215. Okay. Normally, uh, when I'm ready for competition I'm down to like 190 190 size. Okay. So I would track your protein Let's get you at least 200 grams of protein and maybe double that in carbohydrates. And then you can make up the difference With fat in your diet to hit the calories that you're looking for And try to break that up throughout the day just because it's easier to digest It's that's a lot of food and then map strong dude Map strong is going to be perfect for what you're looking for You should see some performance gains With map strong because it was literally designed To help people do better at strongman competitions And then people who don't compete who they when they follow map strong They just get the the muscle and aesthetic benefits and typically looks like a well developed back glutes Traps and shoulders. Those are the the muscles that tend to get developed the most in that program Great, that sounds awesome. Thank you. No problem Dan. We'll send that over to you. All right Yeah, Dan's been listening to the show for two episodes. I thought we've been trolled right there No, you know Actually, okay, so this is a good topic to kind of add to he's really smart and just one of the Yeah, that's that that was my other great You know, you know sows like yeah, but you wouldn't happen. No any good ideas. Like, you know, I'm trying to get aesthetic looking And I also would like some performance and I'd like to feel more No, you know, um, this is it's a good topic because it's when you're looking for performance in a specific Either sport or in a specific way Nothing is going to improve your performance like training specifically for that So you can get general improvements in performance like A squat is going to getting better a squat is going to improve your legs General performance, but if you want to get really good at sprinting You're going to want to do specific exercises for sprinting in this case. It was strong man competitions So, you know, anabolic is going to help a little bit performance is going to help a little bit Especially if he hasn't trained before that the lift heavy and they have to move With the weight which is a whole another, you know dynamic component to strong man lifting also rounded back type Lifting and so we have all of that is incorporated in that program. So it's the perfect one And I will say this this is and I did not expect this until I followed map strong and then I say oh I can't wait to see what the reviews look like It's one of the most popular programs that we have For both men and women but women Yes, the posture the butt yes, it's saying it's such a popular it's probably One of my top three favorite maps programs is for overall muscle and strength Our next caller is Mike from Delaware. What's up, Mike? How can we help you? Hi guys, I've really enjoyed your podcast and I wanted to thank you for having me Allow me to ask a question. I uh Just a quick background. I'm 53 going to be 54 this summer Came up on my 50s in the worst shape of my life and decided to Set some pretty audacious bucket list goals And one of those was centered around fitness and I quickly discovered new about myself if I didn't set a Big goal. I probably wouldn't stick with it. So I went from nothing to setting a goal to win a over 50 bodybuilding competition. I'm happy to report that Within with three years of dedicated work and some great help from folks like Craig Capruzzo and my trainer at the YMCA I achieved my goal Good job right on the hell. Yeah So it's it's been a really fun ride. I've I feel great. I'm in probably second best shape of my life. Maybe the best shape was when I was in the military, but um I achieved that goal and I sent my photos into the the judge and Said, what do you think how could I do better and not really thinking that I'd want to do another competition per se, but He said, you know, if you put on three to four pounds of lean muscle You'd be competitive on a national stage. So that just Totally reset my paradigm, I guess and now I'm considering prep in to do another competition and Uh, I don't know if that's a realistic goal for somebody my age. Um, I uh I feel great about what I've achieved, but uh, I went from like two 10 and 23 percent body fat to The day I walked on stage. I was about 164 and by my little Resistance scale. I was somewhere around 11 percent body fat. Um but uh I don't know if I can I've done pretty good at shredding, but I I don't know if I can get bigger or not Yeah, okay. That's it. That's a that's a pretty good question. Doug just pulled up your photos. Look really good By right there. Yeah, that's him right there. Wow fantastic. Yeah. Oh, it's by the way Say hi to craig for is a good friend of ours. Yeah Okay, so is this pot first off? I want to say something about bodybuilding judges They're always going to say something like that. Keep you coming back. Yeah, and and you know be very careful Don't get caught in the trap of you know sacrificing your health For a trophy because it's it's it's an easy thing to do especially once you start winning now Is it possible to gain three to four pounds of muscle? It totally is It is it's going to be hard, uh, but it's totally possible. Um, and you did indicate in The written part of your question that you're doing this without any hormone treatment or anything like that It's totally natural. Is that correct? Yeah, and and uh, you mentioned craig. I I don't want to overstep anywhere He's been invaluable to me in this process has done a great job and and he's he suggested I look into that that and he also put me on to your podcast I've become a a mine pump junkie. I listen to it when I'm driving all the time. So uh, and uh, So I just am hesitant and I'm I'm seeking Information I guess No, that's a good question. What do you know what mike? We have a free Hormone forum that is you know managed by actual hormone doctors. It's uh, it's I believe it's my is a mine pump hormones On facebook so you can go there join there. You can ask any questions now. I'm going to give you What I what they've said before on this particular question, but I do want to make sure you know I'm not the doctor. I'm not a hormone specialist Now what they have said is that you can go on testosterone replacement therapy therapy go back off And you'll go back to where you were before with the right kind of treatment So a lot of people believe once you go on you have to stay on that's not necessarily true Now my advice is this I don't think it's a good idea to go on hormone replacement therapy just to build more muscle I think it's more of a Improve your quality of life thing If you get your hormones checked and you feel good and you're not bad and you're doing okay Um, I don't necessarily see why any why you would need to go on them Now would you gain muscle on hormone replacement therapy? Um, yeah I mean if it raises your testosterone it could probably help But if it's if your quality of life is great and you're healthy, um, I don't necessarily see the need for it Especially not for you know bodybuilding. I really don't see the the value in it for For you know competing, you know on stage, especially if that's not your Your absolute passion. I do think it's totally possible to gain three to four pounds of muscle You just started working out a few years ago Three to four pounds is totally possible by manipulating your training and your diet and really fine tuning things with everything And maybe the pre-contest diet portion Working on that a little bit and then last thing I'll say and Adams, you know, he said this many times and I'd love his input on this Sometimes the way you how lean you come in or how conditioned you look Makes you look easily three or four pounds more muscular. So you don't necessarily have more muscle You just got to look like you have more muscle. Yeah, Mike you You sound like a client that I would love to train because you seem like the type of guy that if I whatever I tell you to do You're gonna follow to a tee Based off of the discipline it takes to to get yourself in the kind of shape you did in the time you did it Which I think is is awesome. I think if you were my client I would actually just kind of challenge the way you're thinking as far as like, you know We can stay in this bodybuilding phase and and we can bring you an even better physique the next time around And I had a lot of fun doing that my side did six shows over the course of three years Uh and had a blast doing it and uh, I'm very competitive So what turned into a thing of first proving can I do it? Uh, and then I did it. I got on stage Uh in place like fifth my very first show which gave me kind of the bug and because I'm competitive I then turned it into okay. Let me get on a national stage See if I can do that. I did that Uh, then I took my first first place show and then I went pro and so it became this like, uh, very, very fun challenging uh time of my life that I enjoyed Now I also sacrificed a lot of other things during that time. Um, I probably wasn't the best, uh, you know partner Uh, I know both in business and in my relationship because I was so consumed with myself and my sport and what I was doing Um, if you have that that that freedom to do that and maybe you don't have the the same type of responsibilities Today that you maybe you had 10 20 years ago or whatever then why not we could have we could do this We could definitely bring you into the next the next show You know leaner and tighter a couple pounds more muscle on you and do that Now if you were allowing me to be coach and say, you know, what do you think adam? I'm at 50 something years old. I just put myself in some of the best shape of my life What's another good goal from you do? I would love to make you run through something like a maps power lift And let's let's see what we can do with your strength Or I would love to put you through maps performance and say, you know what dude Let's let's mike. Let's see how how much we can improve your mobility Let's let's check out your squat. Let's check out your debt. Let's check out some of your movements And let's let's see if we can improve some of these these movements and get you not only looking the best you've ever in your life But now let's start looking at the the best movement or feeling the best you've ever felt in your life And I would take your same your same attitude and discipline that you obviously applied to competing Uh bodybuilding and I would want you to apply that in maybe a direction towards bodybuilding Or maybe a direction towards power lifting or strength, right? So If you allowed me that right if you allowed me to intervene on on your your goals and what you would do what you're open to doing That's where I would push you because I think you would you would overall benefit the most from that But if if you're focused on the bodybuilding thing, uh to your original question Absolutely, we can put on three to five pounds of muscle. We could do that naturally In fact, especially a body that's been as lean as you've been Coming back the other direction is some of the best muscle gains I've ever had is after I've dieted really hard for a show I reintroduced calories. I changed my programming up a bit and I guarantee muscle is going to come on your body even at your age So long as I you know hormones are are fine, which I'm assuming they probably are if your body's responding the way it is Um, so, you know, the answer is really is diving into what is it? Mike, you really want to get out of this and if if bodybuilding is something you find you're passionate about right now Uh, absolutely. We can go after that and bring an even better physique on the next show Uh, but if you were open to suggestions and ideas, um, I would want to push you in the direction of Let's get let's get really hyper focused now on mobility for a while or hey Let's work on strength and see what we can do with with your discipline there Such great advice Adam. I 100 agree and then as far as the hormone stuff in your question you asked about Um, you know chances of cancer with increased testosterone the best studies now show That you're at your cancer risk actually goes up with low testosterone not with high testosterone Of course, we're talking about within the range of what's considered, you know, healthy We're not talking about super physiological bodybuilding doses. Nobody knows what the hell that will do Um long term, but again, we're not doctors. So if you go on that forum You can ask questions and if you want a consultation you can actually talk to an expert and then ask those questions We're not the ones that are, you know, we're not qualified Really to answer anything any questions along those lines, but you're in a pretty damn good place. Mike at your age Get into where you did What adam said is great And I think if you did that if you went mass performance or power lift I think it would be great for your body. It's very different than what you were doing before And that might be what actually puts that muscle on your body because it's so so much more strength and performance focused And if you don't have those programs, uh, we can send that over to you, Mike Oh, gosh, no, I don't it and I don't want to ask for for that. I mean, I This has just been really really helpful. Just an atom. I love what you're going to I I don't want to take this was part of a larger goal. I have which um, for the reason I've enjoyed your show so much, um I'm an ag guy. I grew up a farm boy and I was still working agriculture and my my real dream is to Give a TED talk and my TED talk was to say how I want an over 50 bodybuilding competition eating GMO's whole milk and eggs So I've enjoyed your like the zbiotics episodes and things like that and so much of what you say just makes sense and I So I say the competition piece I I like where you're going with that atom that that makes a lot of sense your suggestions because the competition was I I don't I don't have a burning desire to go back on stage But I am very competitive and when they kind of threw that carrot out there. I was like, well, I wonder I like pushing myself for something Uh, that I never thought I could do that. I could I could tell Mike. I could direct that Yeah, I could tell and that's why I said you would sign up for a powerlifting One of those clients that I used to love to get a hold of your very rare And when I get a hold of a client like you I would try my best to influence you on what what I thought would be would be best for you And if you allowed me to do that right now, that's kind of the direction I think I would push you considering that your main goal isn't just to be the best bodybuilder in the world I just you basically set that goal for yourself and fucking crushed it and now I'd be challenging All right, let's look for some other goals and other pursuits within You know health and fitness and see what you what else you could do I bet a powerlifting competition would be a blast I bet you'd have a lot of fun doing that and they have age categories for that and of course weight category So it's a pretty, you know, somewhat level playing field. I bet that would be a lot of fun Yeah, and even if you didn't get and compete on on stage in that I think just competing with yourself saying, okay, let's check where you're your deadlift your squat your benches And let's write a program and follow it and dial in your diet And let's see how much we can improve that over the next three to six months. We'll set. We'll send those over to you, Mike Okay Josh guys, thank you so much. Um, thanks for what you're doing Really enjoy your show and keep it up and thanks. Thanks for answering my questions and giving me some ideas Yeah, no problem and send Craig our love. Yeah. Yeah, keep us posted Mike. Let us know how you do I sure will thank thanks so much. Thank you That's a great position to be in. Oh, I love you could tell I could tell this is like one of my favorite type of clients to train right here Yeah, I mean you got the discipline at at his age to put himself in that kind of shape and to get up on stage like that and perform that well like Uh, that that's one of the things I love that I loved about competing is and why I know what we've I ragged on it a lot early on in the show when we first started but It did have tremendous value as far as the One Disciplining yourself to be that consistent for that long of a period of time to get there And then you learn so much about your own body and and diet and how it responds to things by going to that level That's why I was trying to after you said mass power lift it like so many bells went off from me So perfect makes so much sense. It's competitive. It's objective, right? It's not judged It's you lift the weight or you don't and it's a different direction than bodybuilding. Nobody cares how you look It's all about how much you lift and I bet that would depriving yourself, you know Nutritionally, yeah, it's now it's like let's really add into that and build the muscle So exactly what he needs to if you wanted to go back to power I bet you that's what puts the three four pounds muscle on him. Yeah, so that would be my guess Well, that's kind of where I was thinking too is like He wouldn't have to abandon this whole idea of maybe even competing again. Yeah, it could be down the road Yeah, go run go chase strength for a while get really good at that Try and improve that and it'll only feed into his physique if he wants to go compete maybe next year Totally Hey, look if you like our podcast head over to mind pump free.com and check out all of our guides We have guides that can help you with almost any Fitness goal. You can also find all of us on instagram. So justin is at mind pump. Justin I'm at mind pump sal and adam is at mind pump adam