 Alright, welcome everyone. My name is Taryn and I'm one of the iSchool Student Services team members. And with this great picture of our Library of Congress, we welcome you to the information organization pathway Q&A with advisors. This is part of our pathway series introducing the different MLIS career pathways where you will get an insider's perspective from instructors who have worked in a specific field. Today we will be talking about skill sets that prepare students for work in information organization. Let's get started with the agenda. Today's agenda consists of an introduction to the information organization career pathway, which courses students should consider, how students use the skill set and information work, and when we'll meet faculty with expertise in this area who have made themselves available to answer your advising questions. So what is information organization? Well, it focuses on discovery, evaluation, use, the structure and indexing of information for discovery, the organization and description of information resources in all formats. And discovery systems and information retrieval tools and resources. Here's a list of core knowledge that students pursuing the pathway should be building for a career in this area, such as, you can take a look at the slides. Make sure to visit ALA's core competencies for cataloging and metadata professional librarian's document, which is linked on our information organization pathway page. It outlines specific technologies and classification schemes that are considered foundational by cataloging and metadata professionals. A list of specific iSchool classes that meet these core competencies is also listed just below the link to the report. Foundational and recommended courses for information organization include those such as Info 246, XML, Info 248, beginning cataloging and classification, Info 281 metadata, Info 247, vocabulary design, Info 287 advanced cataloging topics such as RDA, linked data and subject analysis, Info 284, EAD, Info 282 digital assets management, and more. Be sure to download this helpful matrix showing which specific cataloging standards, authorities, and the accompanying downloadable discussion. Now I'll turn it over to Sheila. Thanks a lot, Taryn. So for tips about cataloging and metadata jobs, we can look for these in the IML, the MLIS skills at work jobs analysis report on page 20. Now this report is published annually by iSchool and it's worth your time to download every spring from our website so that you'll be able to keep an eye on the trends from employers. You will see that the survey data of 400 job announcements does map very well to the skills in the iSchool classes matrix available on our information organization pathway page. Now, might you be interested in cataloging and metadata in a variety of LIS contexts? You can take a look at the course intersection tool on our advising toolkit. I would also recommend that students pursuing the information organization pathway. Take a look at our stackable advanced certificate option within the MLIS and I'll show you that Info 281 metadata, Info 282 digital assets management, and Info 287 with the EAD topic are all elective choices from the information organization MLIS pathway. You can stack this certificate if you take nine units from this pathway along with your MLIS. And here are just a few job titles that you will find that relate to this job skill. Everything from electronic resources librarian to data curation librarian information architect, search analyst, discovery platform coordinator, and many more exciting opportunities for you. Now, I recently retrieved these samples of some metadata content strategy and taxonomy positions for hire in academic libraries and non library settings. You can set up job feeds now to come into your email for remote work and or locations in your area, so that you can start to screen job postings in your target roles, as you think about electives and internships that you might want to do. Do this now before you're ready to even think about launching your search. And I just want to point out that just this morning, we received a note about San Francisco State having an opening for a full time metadata librarian. So you would definitely want to check our SJSU handshake database because that's where we refer employers, whenever we hear a tip about a job. So check out the SJSU handshake, shake database that all students have access to for job search. Finally, remember that LinkedIn is a great source of information. If you want to see what some of our other high school alumni are working on in the field of knowledge organization. Some of our high school alumni may be even open to doing an informational interview with you. And I also recommend to review the career environments pages on our high schools career development site for even more in depth information. There are many professional organizations that you can get involved in, such as ALA, their core division that you can become involved with to increase your professional network and learn about trends in the industry. And now you have the wonderful opportunity to hear loads of tips and recommendations from experts in this pathway for high schools knowledge organization pathway advisors are here today. And first they will introduce themselves and let you know a little bit about their background in this pathway and the skills that they feel are important, as well as the courses that they teach that align with this pathway. And then later on we'll be opening a Q&A for you all to get some advising information from our experts. So with that I get the pleasure of introducing our first speaker which is Dr. Sylvia Hall Ellis and she's here with you today to provide you with some wonderful feedback about this career pathway. Can you hear me. Okay, I think you can hear me yes. Yes, we can. Okay, great. I did this because I wasn't sure exactly how to look at my career. It's been a while. But it's been exciting. Let me thank you. Basic concepts about this. And I would say initially the foundational work, all of the foundational work that comes into the arena now as the core competencies for catalog librarians and metadata specials came out of a task force that the precursor of core appointed in the late 1990s. And I chaired that task force which became an interest group. And it's from that interest group and the work they've been doing for about 20 years that we now have that adopted list of core competencies. So it's a research based set of competencies, and it aligns very well with competency based education, which is so important in terms of workforce development and preparation for the workplace. What I found over the years are these things. Catalogers and metadata specialists do very similar tasks, but in different environments, and perhaps with different types of metadata and different schemas. We still know that they require these fundamental skills. Those don't differ. We know that all of us work in a community of practice. We join it when we graduate from library school and we stay in that community of practice throughout our careers. The kinds of skills I think lead to a successful career in this pathway. We're lifelong learners, we're very curious, we solve puzzles, we can't turn our brains off. We think about rules, we think about guidelines, but we don't always like them or follow them. We're thoughtful, we're multicultural and multilingual, and we're always learning something new. If you're a person like that, you're one of us. We provide roadmaps. We help people find things that discovery process that happens between the information professional and the information seeker depends on the work that we do. Our work needs to be precise. We do it once and it needs to be as close to perfect as we can achieve. We try to figure out how will individuals search for something? How will they look? What might they use as keywords? How will that eventually lead us to a semantic web and more linked data? How do we contribute to making that possible? And that's basically what we do. Just show this old card catalog because it brings back the times that I started in library land, which was a while ago. This is the kind of places where we work. We now do all kinds of places we work in environments that weren't even imagined. When I went to library school, it was 1971, and the precursor of RDA, which was called AACR, had barely been published. And we thought we would spend our lives making three by five cards. How the world has changed. I have not seen or made a three by five card in probably 35 years, but I still have a few just for the memory of what they look like. There are places you will find these skills and these abilities are applicable that we can't even imagine. And I would say the best advice is to don't think you're working in the box, but try to figure out creative ways you can use your talents to work outside the box or to create a new quasi box for yourself. The old traditional, I work at the library my whole career, I don't change jobs, I get promoted, they like me, I like them, isn't really true anymore. A lot of us work virtually, a lot of us work in different environments and do different things. It's a very fluid environment and our skills are applicable in many of these places. My career, just to give you an idea with a library degree, I've worked in all these different kinds of places. I became a manager than an administrator. The probably the most exciting things I did was the multi-state consortia. We developed what are now resource sharing tools that are internet based that are in states that have been operating for over 25 years. There were jobs I didn't like, there were jobs I liked a lot, but my skills that I learned as a catalog librarian and as an information professional have served me very well. I currently work as a consultant. I work with patent attorneys and do exclusively research and writing for the International Trade Commission district courts in the US Patent Board for patent matters. The competencies that landmark study came out in about 2000 and I did that study because I wanted to be sure that I was teaching students the kinds of skills and competencies they needed to get a job. I've done research with multi-lingual competencies, catalog librarians have those skills and they use them in their work. There are competencies for managers which are slightly different and there are yet more competencies and knowledge for library administrators and deans which vary somewhat. It's a great career path because you can become whatever you envision yourself to be. We are valuable, we are hard to recruit. There are not many of us. San Jose is now a leader in offering courses in the information organization pathway. It is essential that you choose as many of those electives as you find will fit in your schedule or spark your interest. The guided practice through mentorships and internships is essential. The hardest thing you'll do is get that first job. We get paid well because we're hard to replace. We are as a group retiring. We want you to join us and become the next generation of catalogers and metadata specialists. There is potential for promotion. Here's what I would say. Join listservs, join blogs, kind of take a look at what is out there and see how you fit. All of the courses matter and all of the courses will help you. You'll have a great career and we'll be glad to welcome you. Thank you so much. That was amazing and inspiring and I look forward to the questions that will come through for you and in the Q&A. Now we're going to move to Dr. Tucker. Welcome, Dr. Tucker. Thanks so much, Sheila. Thank you, Dr. Hall Ellis. I'm going to pick up where she left off. I thought I would just give you a little bit of my background. I'm seeing a lot of familiar names on the list, which is great. I also know a lot of folks will be listening to the recording and I'm happy to hear that as well. I teach in the MLIS program. I'm also teaching in our relatively new MS in Informatics program where I teach a human-centered design course. The 202 course that everybody needs to take in the MLIS program. I've been teaching for quite a few years and I'm also the coordinator of it. I know you've probably been familiar with my voice, even if you didn't take the course from me. And I used to teach an advanced online searching course. That's something very close to my heart that I'll speak about in just a moment. I teach an information architecture course, which I'm teaching this semester and I'm an advisor for e-portfolio. Some of my degrees, I also have most of a master's degree in education, which I think is colors everything that I do with my position now at the iSchool. I think it's really important what Dr. Hall Ellis mentioned about the multiple environments where these kinds of knowledge organization skills are in demand. And I know my own career, which is sometimes when I was in the midst of different parts of the journey seemed kind of disjointed. But now looking back, I can see that it all made sense because I've been in different jobs. I started out as an academic librarian. And in that, I did a little bit of everything, but my own actual strict cataloging experience was fairly short lived. I worked in a music cataloging department where I cataloged original music compositions. So my degree in music was extremely helpful there. But I could tell that wasn't going to be my great calling. I like being around people too much, and it felt a little isolating. But I ended up working in industry for one of the giant online database companies. And in that position, I did a lot of looking at publisher data, you know, the raw data that they had for their content and figuring out how it should be converted into a database so it could enable users to search 10 databases at the same time without needing to know that those fields actually looked quite different in the source data. So there was a lot of conversion, a lot of coming up with specs technical specs to make that possible. And ultimately, I ended up becoming a product architect at that company for quite a few years and then doing consulting for them. So some of that really drove my interest in this knowledge organization side of the information professions. I also thought one thing Dr. Hall Ellis mentioned about competencies was really important and what Taryn showed you about how ALA has competencies very specific to cataloging. And there are sets of competencies that zero in on specific skill sets. For example, Special Library Association has a competency set for that work environment. And one thing I think is interesting about SLAs competency set is that it emphasizes the so-called soft skills, what SLAs calls them are enabling competencies. And I think that's an important thing to keep in mind. We really zero in on the big competencies for e-portfolio, which are based on ALAs competencies. But I think it's important to look at the ones that might be more narrowly defined for the areas you're thinking of going into. And I think we can go to the next slide now. Thank you. One thing I thought was important to share with you is that we make a lot of efforts to keep our curriculum up to date and to make sure it reflects what's going on in industry and in academia and in areas where the jobs are. So we have program advisory committees for a lot of different areas and those areas align directly with career pathways that you're very likely familiar with. The knowledge organization program advisory committee is one that I chair with my co-chair, Professor Mary Boland. You might know her. She teaches a lot of our cataloging courses and a metadata course. It's really important that we meet with people like this and get their input. We usually come prepared with some, you know, incisive questions to lead discussions. And I thought I'd include here as well the current members of that committee. Patricia, for example, is a taxonomist at Cisco Systems. Corey is at Apple Computer, working as a search analyst. We also have Krista, who is the business and affordable learning solutions coordinator at King Library at San Jose State. And affordable learning such as e-textbooks. Again, if you took 202, which I think most of you probably did or you're taking it now, you know that there's an e-book that's very affordable. And the reason for that is because textbooks have just gotten incredibly expensive. And then we have Annie Boop, who is head of metadata and digitization services at University of Houston. She's been an incredible person to contribute insights for us. And to let you know, again, we have an advisory committee for each of the career pathways. We meet two or three times a year and get their insights. That's all I wanted to share so we can move on to our next speaker. Thanks, Sheila. Fantastic. And thank you for that background information. I think that's really valuable for our students. All right, we're moving on. Next we have Dr. Lei Zhang from our Info202 series. And of course she teaches also several electives on this pathway. So excited to have you here today with us. Hello, everyone. So this is Lei Zhang. I was a cataloging librarian in an academic library for years. My routine work was performing original and copy cataloging of library materials in English and other languages by applying the international and the national cataloging standards and encoding into the mark format. My other duties included the retrospective cataloging that is converting the bibliographic data from the library's catalog cars into computer records and the maintenance of bibliographic records. And then I pursued my PhD in library and information studies. My major research interests are in the areas of information organization and retrieval. My professional experience and research experience informed my teaching. In my school, I'm teaching three elective courses in the information organization MIS pathway. And these elective courses represent different aspects of the area of information organization, library settings and non-library settings, cataloging present and future. Info 248 is for the library settings. Info 247 is for the non-library settings. And if these two represent the present, then Info 287 link data represents the future trends. So for Info 248, there are many sections in each semester. And beginning cataloging or classification is a more traditional library cataloging course. The descriptive cataloging and the subject cataloging with the use of cataloging standards and the rules such as RDA, RCSH, RCC, DDC, code the bibliographic records in Mark 21 format under authority control. Info 247 vocabulary design covers the principles and the practices of indexing, abstracting and the taxonomy and the cesarios construction. I started teaching Info 247 since summer 2014, and I teach this course every spring for and summer semester. And throughout the years, some were to redevelop to the course. This course includes controlled vocabularies, indexing principles, abstract writing, indexing of diverse types of materials, such as image indexing, journal indexing, book indexing, web indexing. The five phases in cesarios construction from domain analysis, turn extraction, facet analysis, relationship analysis to find a turn selection. We also take a look at other types of knowledge organization systems. The multilingual cesari, taxonomy and the cesarios evaluation. And for this course, we have provided a free access to the taxonomy management of software, synaptica, so students may use this software for their final project. This course content complies with the U.S. standard and synapse, so these 39.19 guidelines for the construction format and the management of multilingual controlled vocabularies. So the cataloging course deals with how to apply the cataloging rules and the controlled vocabularies. The 247 course also addresses what works behind their scene, that is how to create the controlled vocabularies. And for info 287, so there's several info 287 courses and I'm teaching info 287 link data. I created the info 287 link data course in the summer 2017. It's originally offered each summer, but to move to the four semester last year, so, and it will be offered each four semester. And this course introduces the principles and applications of link data for organizing, managing and sharing data of libraries, archives and museums. And it provides an overview of link data vocabularies, standards and approaches. So in this course, this course includes the concepts of semantic web and link data, RDF data model and serializations, particularly Tertle, the basics of AL and Sparkle query language. And as well as web ontology language, ontologies and ontology development, the applications of link data in their libraries, archives and their museums, such as a link data for authority fires and the controlled vocabularies for the library bibliographic data and for the metadata. And the standards discuss that is simple knowledge organization system, bibliographic framework initiative schema dark and so on. And we also examine the use cases in culture heritage and other domains. And for this course, we use the free open source and also the most popular ontology editor prology, and there's a people frame demo editor for exercises. And you can see slide for the people frame Tertle RDF are included standards or models and these are all covered in their link data course. So as as to job markets for the information organization career pathway. I have something to share when is that cataloging is not only the skills for the catalog in a metadata librarians, but also for the reference librarians system librarians in a library settings. Because library cataloging has very strict rules to follow when creating bibliographic records, I believe an important attribute of a cataloger is attention to detail, such as punctuation and their spacing, because cataloging is a backhand job. So a minor error may cause a bad experience in search and the retrieval of serve bibliographic records. And I also think understanding a few foreign languages would be another important to attribute of a cataloger. You will need to understand there's a content for transcribing recording and encoding for the descriptive fields. Also for subject analysis for signing subject firms and classification numbers and a bit of knowledge of the subject to field would also be helpful. So that's for the traditional library cataloging jobs and indexing is a work from home. For the MIS career and indexing and abstracting don't require you to be present at the office. So unlike the traditional cataloging which has to be tied to a library indexing is usually a freelance job, and it's not limited to that library catalog records. So abstracting opens up new career options for the MIS and Myra students. So you may check the American Society for indexing website about the indexing job, and it's FAQ about the requirements and expectations of an indexing job. So the indexing such as back of the book indexing of the indexers also need to have their language specialties and a subject to specialties. So there are many professional associations such as American Society for indexing, indexing Society of Canada and so on. On their website, the indexers usually list what languages they know, what subject areas they have a good knowledge of, and what types of materials they would like to do. Talking about technology. So link data is a synergy between data science and a metadata or we can say a link data is applied to data science. So my link data course addresses RDF to enable exposing sharing and connecting pieces of data information and a knowledge under semantic web. Oh, that is web ontology language. And so the machines can make logical inferences based on the class inheritance, property inheritance, and the property domain range assertions, so as to discover new relationships and derive new knowledge. And also, the link data course also addresses the ontology so an ontology is a former explicit description of concepts in our domain of this course. So there are many ontologies for common domains such as social networks, medicine, geography, ontologies enable knowledge sharing and our knowledge reuse. In this course, we also examine the use cases in libraries, archives and our museums from various aspects, so including Messers, so Messers that is a technology to make it happen. So for all of these courses, we use some software such as cataloging tours, taxonomy software, ontology editor and so on. So indicating your knowledge of certain software or tours would also be an asset. The MIS curriculum in our iSchool is well developed and it has a lot of courses covering almost every subject. So based on my observations, not all schools and the programs have a course equivalent to Info247 vocabulary design or Info287 link data. So there are always open classes students registered for these courses and MARA students also interested in these courses. So, and finally, I want to say for a list of job titles in information organizations, so you just show a slide with a list of job titles. So in addition to the catalogers, taxonomists and so on, I would suggest adding the job titles, indexers, ontologists and these also the skills in the information organization and they also provide, open up a new career pathway for the students. So that's it. Oh, thank you so much. That was absolutely phenomenal. And we just gleaned so much. So many great tips from your presentation. So thank you. And thank you to everyone to all three of our wonderful panelists. Right now we're going to open up our chat. So that you folks can drop in all of your questions. Just want to make sure I'm opening it here. Yep, should be set. And just to remind you make sure you choose from the drop down everyone so that our panelists and all attendees so we can, everyone can see your questions and know who the question is for. Don't be shy. Go ahead and start chatting to us. Right. Dr. Jean, are you able to see there is a question from Christina asking if you'd recommend taking 247 or 248 before taking 287 link data. Yes, because for link data course. So, I think the focus is more on the link data principles application so I won't have sufficient time to cover the say that the fundamentals of the the cataloging or control vocabulary so so I can also say provided for some background there isn't sufficient time to cover every detail so if you have had taken info 247 info 248 then that to be very helpful. So for the 287 link data course. Yeah, so I think under syllabus is said that just some exposure to cataloging metadata and the control would be helpful. Yeah, I think I have this on the syllabus. Thank you. Yes, syllabi are always fantastic we always recommend Taryn and I would more advising students always go back and look at the syllabi to make sure that you feel comfortable with the content of a class. You can learn a lot from the previous syllabus. Next question. I think this is for any of the panelists. What tips do the panelists have for getting that very first position professional position in this field in this area. Any of our panelists want to chime in. Dr hall Ellis, I would say that within the geographic area in which you're willing to work. Look at every single job that has this type of component and apply. It will take a while but you'll be known. Be sure that you have great references or people who will write a letter for you or do a phone call for you. And I would, I would not have if I don't get this job the world will end. You just need to keep trying the perfect job you wanted when you came to library school, you'll get that, but you may not getting first. I think perseverance is the key to getting that first job and knowing people. And knowing who works at the library. If it's an information center or a place you can visit, I would be visiting. I would get to know the people. I think any human connection you have with the organization will benefit you. But I would cast a wide net where it is you believe you can, you can see yourself working and, and just get a great letter, get your resume, or your curriculum Vita together, have someone at the high school help you be sure it looks the way it needs to look, and, and go after the first job, and don't give up until you get it. Great advice. I've this is Dr Tucker, I've just put in the chat that doing an internship can be fabulous and there are a lot of virtual internships that are can be a bit easier to fit around all the other things you have going in your lives. The other thing that can help is, you know, outside of looking at postings of job vacancies is to schedule an informational interview with someone if you, you know, are looking at a cataloging position in the big public library system. Reach out to people who are already in those positions and see if they'll meet with you for half hour, find out more about what they do get on their radar. Well, I just saw another question. It says, would you suggest taking 247 before 248 or does the other matter where I don't think the other matters so for anyone who who took 247 they will find helpful for the 248 and for anyone who took 248. They might find it helpful for 247 so there are some saying common so. So, I don't think the other matters. Dr Hall Ellis, I would agree with that I think the order is not as important, but I do know that for some of the courses that I teach that basic understanding in 248 is very helpful to students. And if a student has not taken 248. There are some additional challenges because that foundational information and the building of skills in 248 is very helpful for the 247 courses so I think you have to consider each one. But other than that I think the order is up to when are they offered and when can you get them in your schedule. Did you say concurrently works just a follow on. Oh, I would be cautious saying that because of the amount of homework. I know that my colleagues, all of us believe that our homework is best and the most important, and I think it can get a little overwhelming so I'm not certain that concurrent is always ideal but it certainly has been done and it could be done. Can I answer the question about advanced cataloging info what was 249 we offered up until about three or four years ago, and the committee for this particular career path. And came to me and asked me if we could replace info 249 with the series of four of the one hour credit to 40 or 287s. I don't know that that is a completely dormant course but it's not been offered for a number of years. I think that it would be appropriate to ask for that conversation to resurface, but I can't say that at this point I'm seeing any, any movement there. Let's go to the next question which is from Christina. Christina says I've been hearing a lot about libraries outsourcing their cataloging. Are you all hearing that and are there big cataloging companies. Yeah, there are big companies some OCLC is one book jobbers. A lot of times will sell bibliographic records or metadata records with the items that they have for sale. Certainly those are great places to work. In terms of libraries outsourcing that's been going on for a very long time catalogers because they are rare are not always available to every library, they're expensive. And I think that the opportunity to save some money by outsourcing is always attractive. I don't think that trend will reverse itself. I think know that that catalogers now and metadata specialists are more often found in larger organizations, academic institutions certainly and larger public libraries, but that trend will not reverse. And if you're looking for a first job, a place that catalogs behalf of others or a consortium is a great place to look at. The next question, based on your experience in the private sector, there are many great courses including 248 metadata, DAM, EAD, RDA and subject analysis and link data as well as CMS and we only have. If the student only has 14 units excluding the basic classes to 85 any port to have a total of 43 units which ones are the most important. Ha, that's a tricky question isn't it. I think that's a Dr. Taylor question. I think we might have just lost you, Dr. Hall Ellis. Oh, I was saying I thought that Dr. Taylor might be better to answer that question because she has a greater overview of that. Is this Dr. Maine? No. Oh, I think we lost you again. One of the other panelists can tell you better than Dr. Tucker. Dr. Tucker, I'm sorry. Yes, Dr. Tucker, I think would be better to answer that. Thanks for the question, Rosine. I'm just looking at your math here and I'm trying to. So I was, I was grabbing my, my phone out of the 43 so they're 14 required and that leaves 29 to, you know, customize for, for what you want to learn about and directions you might want to head in and I realize that some of those early courses help you figure out what directions are most of interest and we do have a number of students who do the MLIS and immediately go into a postmaster certificate program because they are thinking and Sheila would know about this as well as Teran. You know, I really, there are more courses I want to take. And there isn't enough in that 43 unit timeframe to take them all and I want to do more specialization. So I'll just mention that. But I think which ones are most important. I mean, I see things like the damn course and the 248 and 248 is kind of like a foundational one. Getting your head wrapped around, you know, XML and which which will help help you in all kinds of areas but I think it you know I hate to give the answer it depends, but sometimes that's the best answer here to look at go more deeply into the syllabus is for these different courses and see which ones will serve you best for what you have in mind. I just want to piggyback on that real quick folks and just say it is 16 units of required courses and 27 units of electives. So just so that there there's no confusion there. Get our get our math. And certainly looking at those job positions and seeing what skills for that for your target positions, maybe different than somebody else. For example, if we have students that are specialists and languages and want to do a specific thing with languages they may have different needs and other students looking at a different type of position so I guess we'll move to the next question. Naomi's interested in cataloging specifically is there a pathway advisor who could help me plan the rest of the schedule. And I think if you all saw in one of the slides on our advising toolkit, there is a drop down menu for finding the pathway advisors by their specialty area and then you just send them an email and let them know what you've already taken. What your career interests are how much how many electives you have remaining and give them kind of a list of classes that you're interested in, and then they would help you be able to kind of pick and choose and narrow down. So, that's how we do that. I just want to follow on Naomi's great question because one of the things that that I thought of in in in, you know, responding to Rosine and trying to figure the math while I was talking which doesn't work too well is, you know, to really make those decisions about which courses are best. I think talking with an advisor would probably be best because because it's very individualized question. If any more questions. Can any of the panelists let me know if I've skipped any of the questions. Or did we hit all of the questions that have come through so far. Looks good to me. Okay attendees this is your final few moments if you have any additional questions for our panelists. We've talked a lot about job seeking. We've talked a lot about competencies in this session we've gotten some great tips about professional organizations. We've had great tips about how to approach folks for informational interviews, how to do some searching and sleuthing through that MLIS skills at work report, how to go out on to LinkedIn and find our alumni contact them for informational interviews. We have the pathway link for finding our faculty advisors by pathway that Dr Tucker has added into the chat window. Any final thoughts from our panelists before we close today. Once it's rendered it will be added to our high school student services and outreach channel on our YouTube presence. And so, visit our high school YouTube site and you'll be able to find the playlist where all of our lunch and learn pathway workshops recordings will be held. And so, thank you, thank you, thank you to all three of our faculty for your time today giving up your lunch hour for our students being available for q amp a and telling us about your career stories and your career journeys. So thanks a lot everyone to our co moderator, Taryn, and everyone have a great rest of your day.