 Welcome everybody to this very interesting discussion this morning and a very special welcome to our guest of honor today. You're not a stranger to Ireland and it's wonderful to have you here at the IEA. Just a few words about the format today. This is a hybrid event so we have an in-house audience and we have an audience online. You're very welcome if you're listening online and especially to those who are joining us by YouTube. Feel free to follow the discussion on Twitter if that's your medium at thehandleiea.ie. The presentation and the question and answers are on the record. When putting a question, please identify your name and also any organization to which you are affiliated. If you are joining us online, please use the Q&A facility on your screen and we will come to the questions then after the presentation. The event today is part of the IEA's Global Europe project and it is supported by the Department of Foreign Affairs. That, I think, is all of the administrative work and so it gives me a very great pleasure to introduce, although I don't think you need any introduction to an Irish audience. Sviatlana Tishkanu-Skaya and she's already forgiven me for my pronunciation. Thank you. You are the leader of the Belarusian Democratic Movement which contested the 2020 Belarusian presidential election as the main opposition candidate following the detention of your husband and our thoughts are with him today also. Since the dispute result of the presidential election, you have become a symbol of the peaceful struggle for democracy and of strong female leadership. That has been recognized internationally and we are very pleased that you received the Temporary International Peace Award this week. But that's only amongst many, many awards that you have received including the 2020 Sakharov Prize for Freedom of Thought presented by the European Parliament and also this is a long list. But it's evidence of how highly you are thought of and in 2022 you received the International Four Freedoms Award and the Charlemagne Prize. You have been recognized in Bloomberg's top 50 most influential people, the Financial Times top 12 most influential women and Politico's top 28 most influential Europeans. You are more than welcome and you have the floor. Thank you, Ambassador Mary, William for such kind introduction. Thank you, Mr. White. I don't see you. Oh, yeah. For hosting us today, the Excellencies, the Friends, good morning. Thank you for inviting me to speak to you on these troubled days. First of all, I wish to thank Irish people for awarding me their temporary peace prize. This award means a lot to me personally, but also to my countrymen, especially now when Belarus is not so high on the world's agenda, as it used to be and actually should be. I take this award as the recognition of the Belarusian peoples on going fight for freedom. I'm so pleased to come back to Ireland. Ireland is and will always be in my heart. I came here as a child, and it made a huge impression on me. Here I learned many things. I saw what life in Belarus might look like. Ireland impacted my life and my views. I also see many historical parallels between our countries. Both our nations over the centuries were fighting for freedom and independence, for language and for identity. For us, this fight is still going on. Today, the situation in Belarus is probably the worst since 2020. Our country is gradually losing its independence. The creeping occupation of Belarus is taking place. With Lukashenko's help, Putin is trying to establish full control over Belarus. All those who dissent and oppose are thrown to jail. Then they are accumulated and tortured. Just last week, the former presidential candidate, Viktor Babarika, was brought from prison to the hospital so badly beaten that the doctors couldn't recognize him. We are still lacking information about his condition. He is one of the dictator's main rivals and he suffers Lukashenko's revenge. There are so many others suffering the same fate because they raised their voice for freedom. They are demanding to allow his family and Western diplomats to see him to make sure that he is alive and healthy. Yesterday on World Press Freedom Day, the regime celebrated by sentencing three journalists to up to 20 years in prison for doing their job. Two were sentenced in absentia. The third, Roman Protasevich, has been held by the regime since they hijacked a Ryanair flight bound for Vilnius in 2021 to capture him and his girlfriend. Lukashenko's state terrorists risked many lives on an international flight just to arrest Roman. Unfortunately, despite the malicious violation of international law, the regime was never punished for the hijacking of the plane. Neither have the judges who take part in the persecution of journalists and thousands of others in prison for political reasons. Now I ask you to imagine waking up in a small dump cell in a KGB prison from Soviet times where the smallest mistake or wrong words can give them an excuse to submit you to the most inhuman torture. No matter how many years they gave to you, it won't make any difference as they will just add more years on the top of it if they want to. Recently, the son of my representative on constitutional reform Anatoly Libytko was detained and they started a criminal case against him and it is poor revenge. For all those in us and prisoners in the dark cells, we are the only hope. We have to continue the fight every day for their release. Every day for us in freedom is another day of suffering for them. People are detained and imprisoned on a regular basis, on average 17 people every day. Among them journalists, students, teachers, doctors, even government officials or military who supported the protests in 2020 and stood up against Putin's invasion of Ukraine. The KGB infiltrates online communities trying to trace and punish all their dissent. Human right defenders already lost count of how many prisoners are in jail. We know the names of 1500, but the real number is more like 5000 people. There are at least 25 senior citizens among them and 74 people have disabilities and serious illnesses including cancer, diabetes, asthma, epilepsy and mental health problems and they don't receive proper medical treatment. The oldest Belarusian political prisoner that we know is Natalia Taran. She is 75 years old and she is serving a train half years prison term for insulting officials. For a month already I have not heard anything from my husband Sergei Tchanovsky sentenced to 19 and a half years in jail. His new lawyer is not allowed to see him. It seems their regime now has extra torture for political prisoners, as well as denying them warm clothes, proper bedding and medical care, now they deny them information. Lawyers have become the latest targets. Those who defend political prisoners are often jailed. In Minsk, for example, it's already impossible to find a lawyer to represent you in a political case. Besides intensified repressions, we see another trend. Propaganda media began to dominate the informational space. They spread anti-Western and anti-Ukrainian narratives justifying the war in Ukraine. They tried to convince Belarusians that Russian nuclear weapons are a good thing for the country, while the absolute majority of Belarusians are strongly against it. Today we are witnessing the creeping occupation of Belarus by Russia. Last year Lukashenko allowed the deployment of Russian troops and enabled the Russian assault on Ukraine. Now he continues to send to Russia weapons, ammunition, armor and vehicles. He provides Russia with training facilities and military bases. Up to 5,000 Russian soldiers are stationed in Belarus. They rotate regularly. After training, they are sent to fight against Ukrainians. Lukashenko is Putin's puppet. He falls every order. Last month Lukashenko met with Pushilin, a pro-Russian separatist leader. The submissive dictator has to constantly demonstrate his loyalty to Putin, because without Putin's support he will lose power overnight. In March, Putin and Lukashenko announced plans to deploy nuclear weapons in Belarus. This would be the first spread of nuclear weapons in Europe since the non-proliferation agreement. We must not allow this to happen. It is a great threat to regional security, but also because it means Russian control over Belarus for years to come. It directly violates our constitution. However, it is crucial to differentiate between the Belarusian people and Lukashenko's regime. Belarusians demonstrated their clear stance. We are against the war. We do support Ukraine. According to the polls, 86% of Belarusians are against participation in the war. It also makes the Belarusian situation very different from Russia, where support for the war is evident. Street protests, as we saw in 2020, are impossible right now in Belarus. So our resistance went underground. Hundreds of thousands joined the partisan movement. In 2022, only more than 80 acts of sabotage took place on railways to stop the advance of Russian troops. Also, we do all possible to keep democratic forces united. Last year, we created the United Transitional Cabinet, which works as the government in exile to coordinate the activities of Belarusians in exile and inside the country. Cabinet members are working with Belarusian military volunteers in Ukraine, families of repressed civil society groups. Our goal is to have legitimate representative body, which represents Belarus and Belarusian people on the international arena. And I'm glad to see that more and more countries and international organizations are working with us, but not with the criminal regime in Minsk. Last year, we established the formal contact group in the Council of Europe, while representatives of the regime were kicked out from this organization. Another important direction of the cabinet is to strengthen the national identity. I don't need to explain it to Irish people. There is an ongoing attack on Belarusian culture, language and historical memory. We mustn't allow Belarus to be turned into a Russian province or colony. And strengthening the Russianness is a key priority for us. So, dear friends, you know, I would like to share the key points of our efforts in the future. And I hope for your advice, actually, but also your help for its implementation. First, keeping Belarus and the political prisoners in the world's agenda. We must make their release our common priority. Organizations such as the UN or OSCE can be more active in this direction. Second, the sanctions enforcement. Sanctions aimed to weaken Lukashenka's and Putin's regime, but also to split elites around them. However, sanctions do not work in full due to loopholes. The regime circumvents sanctions through Russia and other countries. Third, prosecuting Lukashenko and his cronies via existing mechanisms or creating new ones. We ask to establish the international tribunal not only against Putin, but also against his crony Lukashenko. He has a long record of crimes. Crimes against humanity, hijacking the airplane, orchestrating migration crisis, complicity in war crimes. Fourth, supporting the Belarusian democratic movement. It's crucial to help Belarusians in exile and provide assistance to our media and civil society. And fifth, provide a positive alternative to Belarusians. We have to promote the European choice for Belarus as an alternative to the Russian world. Belarusians should know that they are welcomed in Europe. We believe that changes in Belarus can come sooner than changes in Russia. Changes in Belarus would be a great contribution to Ukrainians' victory as well. And I do believe that the war will not be over until Belarus is free. My dream is that Belarus will become a trusted, respected and valued member of the European family of three nations. We bring back hundreds of thousands of Belarusians who have been forced to escape from the country because of their repressions. And together we will rebuild our country. This is the future that I see, and with your help, we will make it come true. There is still a long road ahead of us, but your solidarity gives us strength to go on. So thank you for your attention. I'm over. The floor is now open for any questions. And those of you who are following us online can send in questions on the Q&A. Please identify your name and any organization to which you may be affiliated. Could I start off with the questions? You have outlined very clearly the human rights situation and the dangers and the experience of human right defenders. You have outlined very clearly as the media has also done what happens to independent journalists or those who try to report independently from Belarus. What experiences and how do you get your message across within Belarus now? And what impact does the state control of the media have on the populations understanding of what's happening in Ukraine, for example? Since 2020, all the alternative media in our country have been ruined by the regime. But our people who owned this alternative media, some of them are in jail. Some managed to flee Belarus and to restore the activity in exile. So now alternative media are all like not in the country. But thanks to the internet, we have so many possibilities to spread honest news to Belarus. Internet is not blocked in our country, but all the alternative media are declared as extremists. And if a person who is reading honest news on alternative media is being detained and his mobile phone is searched, for example. You know, KGB people see that he's reading this news or watching, he will be sentenced for years and years in jail for this. Our people know how to use VPN, they go to use to delete the history of their searches. So they know how to get access to alternative to honest actual news. And so we said that there is a high demand on this news. And we are using all the possible means like YouTube, Instagram, Telegram, TikTok, it might be controversial, but it's very important for us to use it. And the same that there are people in our country who maybe don't know how to use internet it's like older generation of people or people in villages. So there is a network of volunteers in Belarus, who make some is that or self made newspapers, and spread these newspapers in small villages, you know, to different groups of people. It's also this activity is of course prosecuted people are sentenced to years in jail if they are, if they are hold court court. So it's dangerous but we understand how, how important for information is now people, people get information about the war in Ukraine from Ukrainian. It's from Ukrainian media. But of course we see in prison influence of Russian propaganda in Belarus, and we have to counter this propaganda we have much less possibilities, you know, to do this because on the state TV on state propaganda newspapers, you know, these narratives that Ukrainians are enemies that I don't know they want to capture us is very high. But again, you know, we feel huge demand for the essence on for honest information and we trying to provide like professional point of view, but of course we need assistance for media. And that's why we have always asked the European Union and the national level different countries national level to support our media, our, our journalists, our initiatives, you know, just to survive the counter propaganda. And you mentioned there the the work of the transitional administration or cabinet. And it is a problem for all opposition parties who have to operate outside of their own countries, and that they very frequently fracture and divide. What, what do you do to try and keep you a united front on the on the issues facing Ukraine. Sorry, Belarus. I think that, you know, for people who live in democratic countries and enjoy democratic institution, it's difficult to imagine that how you call us opposition, it's not like parties in a position, we actually don't have parties. You know, it's like ordinary people, you know, who dare to, you know, to, to stand against location construction. So, but we understand the necessity to keep our unity, you know, to structure rise our work to give people understanding how democratic forces are working and also for our international partners. And people in people who are fighting the regime they are, we are united because we are not concentrated around one person, or one like ideology I don't know we are concentrated on the democratization of Belarus. You know, people might have different views on how to reach this and we of course debating about this, but our aim is. It's not like fight between parties. It's a fight against the person against the Kashenka his phone is about the against the dictatorial regime, and everybody is important. So we are united transitional cabinet is divided on separate direction so forth. So those who are working on human on social problems on national national identity revival on sanctions on international arena on on issues of the fence, you know, a person who is working in Ukraine with our military volunteers for fighting in Ukraine. So many many directions there are people who are working with volunteers and activists inside the Belarus. So and if any person you who have interest in some of the direction can join this particular representative. It's easy not to quarrel but to cooperate. And of course we are trying to involve our this united traditional cabinet is not like only political structure we are trying to involve NGOs initiatives, different organizations into war for people to involve this unit that it's not like perception that somebody's telling us what to do and we fulfill the program fulfill the orders. We are, we all like participating in in in discussions in debates and our decisions have to be like joined. Hi, I am Adrian palm, the Dutch ambassador here in Ireland and before Eastern partnership ambassador and accredited for Warsaw as a shared affairs. First of all, my source are with all those people in prison. I know the friends who I had when I was in Warsaw and who are now in prison, whether they're from the trade unions, whether they're from human rights organizations whether from the media. It has really been everybody who's now in jail so my source are with them, especially of course with with your husband. We talked about Putin and how his control of Belarus. What impact does the war in Ukraine and the these basically the hopeful success of the Ukrainians in the in their new offensive have on the influence of Russia in Belarus. Do you think that the things will be even tightened even further or do you feel that if Putin has to focus more on his works in Ukraine, that that would create some space of breathing for the Belarusian people. First of all, there is full understanding in among the Russian people that the fate of Ukraine and fate of Belarus are intertwined. We understand that the victory of Ukrainian people will give the person people opportunity to appraise visibly again because when the Ukrainians wins win it means that Putin is weakened and hence Lukashenko is weakened and the people around Lukashenko they also watching closely you know on which side, like possible victory is, you know, and I think that in one moment they will see the defeat defeated Kremlin defeated like Russia they will change sides like immediately you know so but it's that might be a lot of scenarios changes in Belarus can happen even earlier than the victory or victory of Ukraine but I see interlink interlink interconnection between the moods of pro regime people in Belarus and the small victories of Ukrainians on battlefield as only there are small counter attacks or, I don't know when this ship sank Russian ship or does attack on Crimea bridge, you know, we see how people from the field are from elites, you know, start to communicate to us, they're looking for context, how can be useful, how can we tell help, can I provide you some information, because they in the in in case and it will happen regime structures collapse, they want to be sure that they will be in safety, so that's why they want to build these bridges between themselves and democratic forces. So of course there is like connection and there will be time when Lukashenko as you said Putin will be too busy with his losses on in Ukraine and he will not provide so much support to Lukashenko and military people around Lukashenko and so we'll see this and we'll try to and of course they will try to escape responsibility, Lukashenko might again might play the sea so as he used to do many many years, he would, he's already actually doing this he's trying to persuade the western countries that he's a peace maker, he's not participating in this war, he's just like, was somewhere aside, because he doesn't want his boat to sink together with Russian ship, you know, but this time, I hope that democratic countries have already understood the nature of Lukashenko and will not allow to be fooled by him again. Now this is a question from the Ann Digny and researcher the IAEA concerning sanctions and she notes that in March of this year, UN Secretary General called on the EU to ease sanctions against Russia and Belarus in order to ensure that Russian and Belarus and fertilizers reach developing countries, what are your own thoughts on this? We see how this narrative of food security influence the perception of sanctions, we are as bursant people understand that any lift of sanctions especially on potash will harm all the attempts to put economic pressure on the regime, because potash is the main source of income for to the Russian regime that it's spent to support war in Ukraine, so I want you to see this link between potash and deaths of people in Ukraine potash and people in prisons. But lifting sanctions on potash for Belarusian regime, it will not save the situation with food crisis, it's not such a huge percentage of potash, but it will undermine all the efforts of democratic world to put pressure on the regime. And we support the idea of synchronizing sanctions between Russia and Belarusian regime because they use each other to circumvent sanctions, but it's not the case with potash. Potash and Russia are much weaker than sanctions on potash in Belarus, but it shouldn't be like it, there shouldn't be derogations you know from a sanction policy, and sanctions for regimes should be like this. So again, it's for sanctions until the mechanisms and tools are developed that don't allow the Russian regime to actually put into circumvent sanctions, they will not be very effective. And that's why, but of course you know new sanctions have to be imposed maybe it's the only working instrument of democratic countries. And in case of Belarus, for example, if now discussion on economic sanctions is stacked because of these derogations on potash, personal sanctions can be imposed freely. You know when Belarusians who had to flee Belarus because of repressions when they relatives are in prisons, and they see a judge who sentenced your like in my case, a judge who sentenced me to 15 years in jail. Now he's working freely in one of the European cities so question why, why those propagandist prosecutors, judges, military people who tortured Belarusians can still get access you know to democratic to your country so why. Personal sanctions don't need so much efforts, but it means a lot you know for people for some time is sometimes it seems that people who have has, who have suffered in Belarus, suffering in exile as well because they don't see justice, you know for for those people who made them, you know to to flee country. So that the question you raise the issue and it's related to that of prosecution of those violating human rights and have you been engaged in discussions with the International Criminal Court. You know, we since 2020, we raise this issue that the country has to be brought accountability for crimes, but so as Belarus is not part of room statute, you know, we can't open like cases in icc or icj but you know take into into consideration the situation nonconventional situation, a special mechanisms of investigation at least should be developed to bring the country to accountability. You know how few people when they see that you know Lukashenka broke international law he hijacked a plane he orchestrated migration crisis. He brought us now he is participating in the crime of oppression against war, and no response from justice systems national justice systems, you know, and it creates like feeling among people that the structures that have been developed, you know to work on these issues are important. Yeah, and you know the same as the same about human rights. So, you know, we see UN structures, you know, can do can do nothing. Actually, you know, in Belarus in dictatorial regimes, because they don't have instrument and tools. So, maybe it's time, you know, to create something new to work on some different tools and instruments how these organizations have to work. And of course, we are we appeal to you and Odea, many times, or see Odea many times that you have to demand access to political prisoners to see the state of people who are beaten, who are tortured, who are rape. No reaction. Nothing can be done actually so. This is the questions you know I go from from the recent people or it cross for example read cross it's international organization so it's your task to get access to prisons where you know people are accumulated constantly physically morally. You know, it's again, the questions from the recent people when it was my question crisis on the border, red cross was immediately there, like taking care about migrants, of course it's understandable we fully support this, we are all people. But what about political prisoners, you know, it's your task as well. So, this question. This gentleman here please, and then I think after that show now. Yes. Thank you very much. I'm Darrell all our senior researcher here at the IAA. Thank you very much for being here and thank you very much for your presentation as well. I wanted to touch on your four points that you mentioned and I think you've covered a bit of it already around providing a positive alternative for Belarus. What do you think the Irish government, both at the level of Ireland and at the EU and the European neighborhoods can do to make Belarusian people feel like they have a European choice and an alternative. How this European alternative for the Russian people. The Russian regime in Belarus is almost 30 years, and every day, you know that we've been trying to persuade Belarusians that Russia is the hour only like alive big brother and so on so forth, and nobody's waiting for you in Europe. Nobody needs you. You're like Soviet Union, people by mentality, so don't even think about Europe NATO, you know they are awful. They have been brain brainwashed for many, many years. And now, and people got used, you know, to this thought. And now we want to show people that we are waited that we are part of European family of countries that Europe is not against Belarus at all. You know that's when we hold reforms, when we will be on proper position to apply for European Union for example, Europe will be ready to accept us now we only talking about European perspectives because it's too early to speak about your special European Union but still. And what have to be done in the island of course can be part of this is to strengthen European Belarus and ties in case of Ireland Irish European ties on political level. The island government Irish government and the parliament are very supportive and now we turn our meetings we asked to create a group for democratic Belarus in parliament, we already established such kind of relationship in 17 countries, it have never been done before. Now, so I have very like a special feelings to Ireland I want to such group to be organized in Ireland as well. So, it means that people who are part of this group will keep Belarus high on agenda in Ireland political environment. Also, cultural diplomacy. There are so much connection between history of Ireland and Belarus. There are plenty of people in our country who are playing Celtic music. They just don't know about them. They seem in a language but in Irish style. We have poets who write in Limerick style poetry. We managed to exchange this legacy, you know, to exchange our cultural ties, it would be like Irish people will reopen Belarus, you know, for themselves. Also, Ireland is very important country for Belarus because when Chernobyl disaster took place, it was among the first who launched this Chernobyl programs and put, I think, thousands of children for vacation. Now, we have thousands of children of political prisoners who head of the country who are departed from their fathers and mothers and also suffering badly, you know, this, this time. So, it's maybe would be very important to relaunch this programs, but in this case, programs for both for children for prison. It will not be huge amount already, Italy, Spain and Norway launch such programs. And, you know, I think that Ireland should be champion in this direction. So we are asking national level, you know, to provide assistance to, as I said, to our media to our initiatives to human right defenders to democratic institutions, just to contribute into into our common victory. You know, fight for democracy is not a local one. It's a global one. And I think those countries who already like enjoy democracy, they, it's like more obligation of them to contribute to, to those countries who want to achieve this democracy and we are not asking to do everything instead of us. We ask you help us, you know, to survive to counter this. We actually, we actually fight not only with Lukashenko, but with all imperialistic Russia together with Ukraine. So, just to be helpful being solidarity we ask all supplementaries and actually ordinary people who can do this and each of you here. We have thousands of political prisoners take, we call it good parenthood over political prisoners choose one of them, just time to time right later to this person in prison, or communicate with the family. Just a couple of wars of support are so important. I don't know, send a present to childhood political prisoners on Christmas. It's very small efforts to you. I mean, you as you know, not your personal but it creates so much support for people. And when a person in jail gets a letter from a person in Ireland, it makes the whole week for them. They're reading, they want to write the answer. It's so important. It will take 10 minutes to provide but you'll give energy to the person who is in jail because administration and prisons do everything possible for people feel abandoned, forgotten. You know, they want to persuade our beloved relatives that nobody's fighting for you. You're sacrificed in vain. And our task, you know, to be the solidarity to show that we are with you. On the 21st of May, this year there will be the solidarity with the person political prisoners. If you on this day tweet or make statement or make interview. I don't know, whatever, you know, just to attract attention. It will be huge support, you know, to our movement. I know that time has passed very quickly and I think I have three people on the floor who want to ask the question so I'll take the three of them at the same time. Shona, would you like to go first there? Hi, Shona from your news. And just a quick question. You mentioned about the sanctions that they weren't working as well as they should because of loopholes. What areas are the loopholes most emerging and what can be done obviously to close them. And then just on Roman Protosevich. Do we know about the conditions he's been held in I know he was given eight year sentence yesterday but just tell us a little bit about his fate. Thank you. I'm a member of the Institute. I was inquiring about the state of the Belarus economy, and what is the material condition of the people in Belarus. It's a full employment is their mass unemployment. Can you say something about how the living conditions and cheer conditions the people are being affected. My name is Shona from Dublin City University. I was struck with what you were saying about the Irish culture in Belarus and I had the pleasure, some years ago visiting an Irish dancing school in Western Belarus and Grotna. And I was so impressed by how the fact they'd never been to Ireland, and yet they had made their own dresses and with the Celtic design. And, you know, they received no support from any government, not let alone Ireland. They were kind of carried away with their own enthusiasm, but I was also struck with what you were said in your in your address about attacks on Belarusian culture and language by the Lukashenko regime, which has now been in power for over 30 years. And I'm wondering, could you elaborate on that. And, you know, what has been done to undermine the Belarusian language and culture over the last couple of decades and what efforts have been taken to counteract that campaign against Belarusian language and culture. Thank you for your questions, first of all, about sanctions. I think that all the under sanctions products can be can be delivered to Europe, despite of sanctions, because it's what regime is doing, for example, wood products. They never put sticker of Kazakhstan, for example, you know, this product have been produced in Belarus, packed in Belarus, but they put sticker of Kazakhstan, as if it came from Kazakhstan, and delivery is to Europe. The same with the oil products, for example, they change special code. I'm not very like in the topic but they change the code for the product that is not under sanctions but inside is under sanctions products. And, you know, they have many, many schemes just believe me Lukashenko have been under sanctions many, many times and they know how to do this. Actually, not so attention is paid if under sanctions products are coming to are coming to Belarus or coming to Europe. The same as Russia have been sanctioned was under sanctions for for sea products. And, suddenly, Belarusian prawns appeared, you know, they brought this seafood from Norway from Iceland, put the stickers as if it is produced in Belarus. Yeah, we are growing prawns and shrimps in our country and sell it as bear some product so this is how they are doing this many, many in many directions so we can provide you know, all the necessary information you know if you need for investigation or what we have all the proofs. As for man for the savages as a journalist who have been kidnapped from hijacked airplane yesterday it was caught. And you know that I'm not going to say which after he was kidnapped. He started to collaborate with the regime. We can't blame him for this because the methods QGB is using for torturing people are awful. And I think that he was sure that regime will like save him and will not give him like real time, but he was sentenced to 80 years in prison. There is still there will be continuation of the story we don't know if he will be pardoned, or if he maybe will be pardoned in the future and it just like a show for people or he will be sent to a real prison. You will follow the situation but twice a journalist 20 years and 18 years just for doing the job just can imagine. It's not because of the positions of people in Belarus, of course, the economic situation is worse in our country, but look, it's not, it's not because of sanctions, but it's because of poor management. People have never lived good. Even the times when there were no sanctions on Belarus at all. People got very low salaries. They couldn't travel, you know, I don't remember percentage of people who are living under the level of poverty. But now people who oppose the regime became the aim of this regime and, for example, wife of political prisoner for sure will be fired from her job or parents of political prisoners and they can't find a new job in Belarus. Also, 25% of IT specialist left Belarus because of repressions and they were huge source of income for the regime. Best specialist in medical sphere in educational sphere in the journalistic they also, they were sent out of Belarus, and it's like the best brains. And, of course, you know, there is a lack of labor force, kaboche sile, labor force in Belarus, a lack of specialist, but, you know, this revenge on people is much higher for Lukashenka that's that's necessary to provide labor space you know with the people. But again, I want to say that I have never heard from Billersons that it's fault of Western countries fault of sanctions that we leave poor. They understand who is guilty who is responsible and they say us that we are ready to like, like to suffer from from. And that economical, not disaster but economical decline that but we want to get rid of the regime so much that we are on your side, we want to like continue. Those who are in exile are fighting actually for themselves and for those who stayed in Belarus because it's difficult to do something visible in our country. And also, but we, we are understand that it will be huge. We, a lot should be a lot should have been done in the future in economy, and we already working on economical reforms we are communicating with businesses in different countries just explaining them what's going on now and that in future we will be waiting for your investments. We will provide you normal economic atmosphere business atmosphere, and where you can come with your businesses and develop given working places for Billersons. Now, no one foreign business can't feel free in Belarus, because at any moment, the business can be nationalized, can be blackmailed, and can be even kicked out of the country. Like, it has been done since 2020 so businesses don't feel safe in Belarus and we won't provide such atmosphere of normal business holding. And the last question about Belarusian language. Lukashenko maybe is the most pro Soviet Union person in Belarus. He will always was very far from everything Belarusians, you know, he never spoke Belarusian language, you know, he never promoted anything national. Now he always was on the side of specification of our country. And language became a political instrument, actually. Now, when, when you speak Belarusian language in Belarus, in Belarusian language or you read the books. The regime considers you percept you as enemy. When you speak the original language in prison there are many nationalistic rented people in prisons, you'll be harshly beaten every day. You can't speak the original language. And our task and after 2020. People, majority of people also like we're the same, like, okay, nobody speak Belarusian language in Belarus, why should I we started it only in the schools, the same as English like a secondary subject, you know, we spoke Russian, but in 2020. The national identity started to revive. We, people became to be proud that we are Belarusians people became started to, to speak the original language to study the Russian history, because it became so important, you know, for people. Our task is to save everything Belarusians, what possible in Belarus and develop it in among people in exile, again, because of huge, huge danger of using personal language inside the country. So many Belarusian initiatives appeared. Books are translated from different languages to Belarusian films movies or Netflix also are translated into the Russian language like after the war in Ukraine started we saw on Netflix Ukrainian language for subtitles for translation and we want the Russian language to become, you know, for the same importance. And, and like, and everything can start from from small steps. Like, you can on on national level you can translate Irish book to Belarus and we can translate person book to Irish, just you also have troubles with language you understand us you had, you had to fight for your language. It's like, it became a goal of the whole government and the whole nation now. Those are people who are defendants like their language not government and just, you know, we, our task is to preserve and double and triple interest for everything below sense. You've been very, very generous with your time. Can I presume to ask two more questions. But they will be quick. One is from Keith Kelly, a journalism student from Dublin City University. And he asks, do you think NATO membership would be supported by better loosens and opposed to Lukashenko world. And I think this gentleman, you have a question. Thank you, Michael Doyle former EU official. It's almost three years now since the stolen presidential election of 2020, given the ongoing suppression. The difficult challenge of day to day life in the poor economic environment. Would you please comment on the challenge of maintaining the morale of the Belarusian population and their engagement with the democratic democratization process in that context. Thank you. In 2020, you know, we saw hundreds of thousands people in the streets. It's the first time I've been the history of modern billboards when people saw each other that people realize that we are not like alone, who are thinking about that something wrong is in our country. It was a peak of self self. I don't know how to call it so it was maybe self confidence. Yeah, thank you, of people that we were almost sure that now we will get rid of the regime. People were so inspired by by by visibility, you know by by seeing each other. And then the impressions that took place of course they frightened people. A lot for three, four months, our uprising was continuing. I think that at that time, we time was spent wasting been by European countries that we didn't see a strong and fast reaction from from Western world, but nevertheless. People resistance went on the ground. People's mood haven't changed. People still won't changes people still want our political presence to be released people still don't want to kashenka, but there are no tools, you know how to be visible in Belarus. We are constantly communicating with the people from the crown with our activities with our volunteers partisan movement appeared from nowhere nobody like organize this movement just, you know, it's like grassroots initiative. And I see the society is boiling. It's boiling. I mean, you know what I mean, but they don't have opportunity to show themselves. And people like, you know, like in a safe mode, we are preparing for something we are in very positive we are energetic but we don't want to lose people in vain. Because if all the activities time exile or in prisons, you know, there will be no people to fight in the future. And now people are preparing for this window of opportunity that for sure will appear for the Russians just to a price again in huge quantity with more support of and already structure rise already prepared, and we will be more effective, you know, now under this huge level of pressure, it's impossible to do something like visible and special but you know we are watching closely comments of people in media we are people are communicating building small structures inside Belarus, you know, just just communicating between themselves people are gathering in the apartment in huge secrecy, you know, to, I don't know, to to discuss both questions to sing bills and so on so whatever recently in Venus I met a rather old woman. She also climb I'm so glad to see you, you know that in Belarus we are pension is how we have to quote, you know, we have a group of pension is in one of the small cities of Belarus. And we gather and every evening pretend and drink in a tea but we're watching extremist YouTube vlogs and we are reading like extremist news so we are with you. Don't stop like pensioners of Belarus with you, and it inspires so much you know knowing that small groups of people in different in different cities, even in villages are continuing to meet continue to discuss politics that they like not not not so lonely at home since it gives me energy to continue you know. Well with that, can I thank you for your great generosity and salute your courage and hope that we have the courage to support you more and the people of Belarus.